Drive Drivel

[monaroCountry1]

Best Luxury Car Under 60k = Lexus IS250

-They commented that "The Lexus had.......poor rear-seat packaging. And two judges were unimpressed enough with the lack of space in the back (of the Lexus)"

-So how can they vote the car as the best value luxury car under 60k when it obviously wasnt comfortable? My definition of luxury would be something thats comfortable to drive and be in. This would be my main criteria.

[EddieVE06]

Best Luxury Car Under 60k = Lexus IS250

-They commented that "The Lexus had.......poor rear-seat packaging. And two judges were unimpressed enough with the lack of space in the back (of the Lexus)"

-So how can they vote the car as the best value luxury car under 60k when it obviously wasnt comfortable? My definition of luxury would be something thats comfortable to drive and be in. This would be my main criteria.

Its called selective judging I think.....

[monaroCountry1]

Ive noticed that in nearly every category Drive has had a dig at the Holden products, from the over 60k luxury, under 60k luxury, best large car, best performance car under 60k, and best performance car over 60k...................what the h3ll is their problem with HOLDEN? Have a look at their blog titles!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!








Best LargeCar = Aurion

-Explain how the Aurion could be in the large car category whilst the Camry is in the medium car category?

-Drive has not really revealed the real world test figures for fuel consumption for the Aurion, instead using the figures submitted by toyota. Why hasnt drive been critical of the performance etc of the aurion?

-Also how can the Commodore be considered in the World COTY award (one of 28) whilst the Aurion hasnt (yet the aurion won this pathetic award)?

Best Luxury Car over $60k:

-Fair enough the Mercedes-Benz S500 won this category but the explenation given by Drive has been nothing short of pathetic.

-The Caprice basically performed as well as the MB in many areas, the main thing letting the Caprice down was its price. They (Drive) state that "as much as the Caprice's Commodore underpinnings and components give it an unbeatable price, it also holds back the vehicle's exclusivity. How special do you feel driving a longer Commodore with leather?"..............................uuummmmmmm ok right. Why didnt they include the bently or other super limos if this was the case?

[Stevotski]

i have written Drive off as craptacular automotive journalism a while ago - I think it was the time they had the VE SS vs. BF XR8 video which was absolute drivel.

I'll wait for Wheels COTY and MOTOR's PCOTY :diddy:

[monaroCountry1]

Drives Best people mover = Honda Odyssey

-Odyssey ......... starting with the modest four-cylinder engine and ending with the dangerous lap-only seatbelt in the centre seating position......And, indeed, such a safety oversight for a vehicle aimed squarely at families is unacceptable in 2006.

-Yet the Odyssey won against the Territory which is a better handler, more powerful, safer etc?

Stevotski the thing that pi$$es me off most would be Drive's little digs with all and any holden products and their idiotic criterias that doesnt even match the award segment and their. I wonder how much money Toyota paid DRIVE OR what I now call DRIVEL.

[CV860L]

I agree, I think it is nothing short of an advertising or marketing scheme for the motor industry.
Nobody with an appreciation or interest in cars could come up with those choices.
The cars mentioned above would all win "most boring in class" if I was a judge.

[EddieVE06]

Drive.com.au.......ignore it and it will go away. Dont reply to their blogs, keep the hits to a minimum and we may get a website that actually has some credibility

[Carby]

The Audi TT is car of the year - well for the 100 people who buy it, good luck!

What a conservative, bland, irrelevant choice for Car of the year.

The Berlina rated third behind the Aurion and Falcon and the SSV couldn't beat a GTi Golf in the performance ranks!

Oh well they're the experts.........:spew:

[teamkiwi]

... I suppose that at the end of the day, the result that mattered that most actually won "Holden SSV =peoples choice award", as those voters are at the end of the day the potential buyers of the car, so i suppose it was a moral victory in some whats.

[CV860L]

Audi TT "performance car of the year" :lmao:

More like "Hairdressers choice award"

[spiritfc]

...SSV couldn't beat a GTi Golf in the performance ranks!

Oh well they're the experts.........:spew:

Obviously you haven't had an extensive drive of the GTI.... It's not all about KW you know:rolleyes:.

[E.O.D.]

They do the same thing here in the US. Seems that no matter how awesome an automobile is, the european or asian model gets the nod.

Its almost 100% predictable.

[Mr Moosh]

Best Luxury Car Under 60k = Lexus IS250

-They commented that "The Lexus had.......poor rear-seat packaging. And two judges were unimpressed enough with the lack of space in the back (of the Lexus)"

-So how can they vote the car as the best value luxury car under 60k when it obviously wasnt comfortable? My definition of luxury would be something thats comfortable to drive and be in. This would be my main criteria.

Lexus is owned by Toyota remember...

[EddieVE06]

Lexus is owned by Toyota remember...

Damn, they are taking over the world.....Frankly awards can be given to whomever they like.

Owning and driving a car comes down to what you like and how it is to drive....the passion that flows through your veins and heritage...For me Holden will almost always be the first choice. They are big, comfy,and look great. Reasonable price and yeah so they quality isn't like the euro's or Jap...but I have sat in a 180 Kompressor Merc, s-type Jag and frankly their uses of hard plastics are worse than our aussie made cars.....and remember that those euro's are well into the $50K bracket

[Holden Man]

I am now starting to hate DRIVE. They use to just annoy me but now I think I actually hate that site. I can't belive I voted and gave them the free hit.

My biggest gripe is

AVALON - Lge Car
Camry - Med Car

Avalon
DIMENSIONS
Overall Length: 4825mm
Overall Width: 1820mm
Overall Height: 1470mm
Wheelbase: 2775mm
Front & Rear Track: 1575mm/1565mm
Ground Clearance: 105mm

Camry
DIMENSIONS
Overall length: 4815
Overall width: 1820
Overall height: 1480
Wheelbase - 2775
Front and rear track - 1575mm/1565mm
Ground clearance - 129mm
(Taken form Toyota Aus site)

Can someone tell those d*ckheads at Drive that the Avalon & Camry have the same wheelbase and jack all difference with other dimensions.

[SchrgdVSV6]

-So how can they vote the car as the best value luxury car under 60k when it obviously wasnt comfortable? My definition of luxury would be something thats comfortable to drive and be in. This would be my main criteria.

Im not sure that 1 negative (rear leg room) necessarily means it cannot win a luxo car title. Nobody who drives such ($60K) cars sits in the back seat being chauffered around.

Wheels also complained about the leg room but it didnt stop the IS250 becoming a finalist in 2005 COTY.
http://wheels.carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/portal/tabID__801236/ArticleID__1588952/DesktopDefault.aspx

Other reviews Ive read rate the IS250 highly as well.
http://www.motorpoint.com.au/lexusis250.asp
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,17555917-13232,00.html

The moral is, dont assume that anytime Holden doesnt win an award, that some global conspiracy is at play.

[Holden Man]

The moral is, dont assume that anytime Holden doesnt win an award, that some global conspiracy is at play.

I just get suss when Toyota products win and why they won.

[Danv8]

Drive can go kiss a hairy scrotum.

:)

Anyways I think COTY is one of the biggest waste of time ever.

And before you all go well if holden won you would sing a different tune.


I say bollock its still a waste of time.

I buy cars that I like not what some journo says. :)

[SchrgdVSV6]

I just get suss when Toyota products win and why they won.
I think Lexus owners would probably be somewhat insulted you called them Toyota products ;) (given the effort made to establish itself as an independant brand).
Although, besides the Aurion praises I havent seen Toyota win anything worthwhile in a long time...


I buy cars that I like not what some journo says. :)
Amen to that!

[Aus8]

Drive.com.au reviews? Who reads them? They lost credibility years ago.

[monaroCountry1]

I think Lexus owners would probably be somewhat insulted you called them Toyota products (given the effort made to establish itself as an independant brand).
Although, besides the Aurion praises I havent seen Toyota win anything worthwhile in a long time...

Well you can sit back and take the unfair criticism..................until Holden in Australia becomes an entity like GM with a very bad product and corporate image.

If I were you I would challenge criticisms (when unfair) and publicize achievement and awards.

Have a look at the blog topics and the majority of Drivel’s (Drive) news……………mostly negative news and blog topics for both FORD and HOLDEN.

[SchrgdVSV6]

Well you can sit back and take the unfair criticism..................until Holden in Australia becomes an entity like GM with a very bad product and corporate image.
The unfair criticism has been there for decades, sometimes justified, other times not. I dont think Holden will turn into a GM, unless something unforceen happens, as its product line is well established (plus they sell).


If I were you I would challenge criticisms (when unfair) and publicize achievement and awards.
Its fine to challenge criticisms, but whats unfair to you may be fair to someone else. Remeber the SSV did just win dCOTY's People Choice Awards, so the recognition is there.
However, when Holden doesnt win an award, you cant just claim its unfair or biased (see my prev post)...


Have a look at the blog topics and the majority of Drivel’s (Drive) news……………mostly negative news and blog topics for both FORD and HOLDEN.
Ahh the blogs, where opinions are like.... you know what.
I had a read of some of the stuff there. It almost reminds me of the old Autospeed forums...take it with a grain of salt.

Personally I dont take one media's reviews that seriously, unless I find 2 other sources that can back it up. In Drive's case, its the only one thats overly negative on the domestic brands, so I dismiss it, as its only serves to hurt their (so called) reputation rather than strengthen it.

[Knight Phlier]

No offence to homosexuals but the last Audi TT won "Gay car of the year" a couple of years running by the same journalists. Now the new one is "Car of the year"...

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=5559&vf=1

[monaroCountry1]

Its fine to challenge criticisms, but whats unfair to you may be fair to someone else. Remeber the SSV did just win dCOTY's People Choice Awards, so the recognition is there.

The difference here is that the people voted their cosen car not Drive. Look through every single award category and see some little smart ass comment from drevil.

Some catgory winner I actually think are deserving but others were just garbage.

[Knight Phlier]

Also seems strange to me that whilst drive didn't award any VE best in class, Carsguide has given the VE Calais - Car of the year. Also the only other car nominated in WCOTY that won any of the drive awards is the Audi TT. Not one of the class winners are even nominated in any of the WCOTY categories.. Unfortunately for me the credibility puts it from absolute bollocks to completely worthless, not because I am a biased Holden supporter and the VE did not win any class, but because they are so inconsistent with what other journalists think. Even if you look at the jurors in WCOTY awards, some of them are from SMH which is part of drive! including Bill McKinnon and Peter Lyon. WTF is up with that!

[Holden Man]

I think Lexus owners would probably be somewhat insulted you called them Toyota products ;) (given the effort made to establish itself as an independant brand).

Lexus owners can think what they like in the end "a spade is a spade"

They (Toyota) only choose a different name to attract the rich badge snobs out there who wouldn't be seen dead in a basic Toyota. Nissan do it with the "Infiniti" brand aswell.

[Goggles]

I like the fact that my post in the drive blog was the last one:

http://blogs.drive.com.au/2006/11/dcoty_winner.html

[Ryzz]

I like the fact that my post in the drive blog was the last one:

http://blogs.drive.com.au/2006/11/dcoty_winner.htmlTypical crap from Drive, At least Motor & Wheels can do decents reviews & Tests!!

[chris_vysv8]

Drive.com.au reviews? Who reads them? They lost credibility years ago.

Second that - I seem to recall a review they did of the new Astra Turbo, something along the lines of "the new Astra Turbo is now a 3 door, while the last one was a 5 door". They used this as a reason to bash the car for being less practical than the old 5 door. Research, guys! I own a TS Astra Turbo and I count only 3 doors!!! :rofl:

[clixanup]

-The Caprice basically performed as well as the MB in many areas
Bahahaha... :rofl:

Someone needs a reality check. :yup:

[csv rulz]

Bahahaha... :rofl:

Someone needs a reality check. :yup:

Have you driven the new caprice and MB???

[Carby]

Obviously you haven't had an extensive drive of the GTI.... It's not all about KW you know:rolleyes:.

Ohh really? Gee how enlightening - see how it went in MOTORS BFYB - pretty ordinary around a racetrack.

Give me a RWD or AWD performance car over any FWD overpriced Hairdresser wannabees car:rofl:

[clixanup]

Have you driven the new caprice and MB???
You don't need to have driven both to know that no Holden or Ford can compete with the S class on any level. The S class is at least 10 years ahead in terms of features. The Merc's cruise control automatically maintains safe distances from the vehicles in front of you. It can even apply the brakes and bring the car to a complete stop. The car also has the option of a 380kw/830Nm 6.0 litre twin turbo V12. How can Holden and Ford compete with that?

Gotta love monaroCountry1 though. I bet you didn't know that he's really Ted Bullpitt. :lol:

[KingClifton]

The Audi TT is car of the year - well for the 100 people who buy it, good luck!

As someone who used to own a MkI TT, even I can't understand how the TT even got to the shortlist, let alone won.

What does it do thats: (1) unique, (b) best-in-class, or (3) ground-breaking?

Yes, it is a nice car. It is visually inoffensive in a way that a Z4 Coupe isn't. It isn't all that overpriced in the way that a Cayman is.

But COTY?

[csv rulz]

You don't need to have driven both to know that no Holden or Ford can compete with the S class on any level. The S class is at least 10 years ahead in terms of features. The Merc's cruise control automatically maintains safe distances from the vehicles in front of you. It can even apply the brakes and bring the car to a complete stop. The car also has the option of a 380kw/830Nm 6.0 litre twin turbo V12. How can Holden and Ford compete with that?

Gotta love monaroCountry1 though. I bet you didn't know that he's really Ted Bullpitt. :lol:

Just because technology wise the MB has more doesnt mean it is a better car to drive. Thats like saying fords V8 is better than HSV V8 just because it has more technology in it. Plus how much does an S class cost and how much does a Caprice cost? there is a bloody big saving in the caprice.

My opinion value for money the caprice sh*ts all over the MB.

But like you i havnt driven them so im not at will to state that one is better than the other.

[PaulST]

Drive.com.au reviews? Who reads them? They lost credibility years ago.
Unfortunately a lot of people do read their rot in the newspapers. Fortunately Drive is no where near as big (or good) as it used to be, so hopefully people (like me) have stopped subscribing to Wednesday's Age.

[csv rulz]

On the subject of the Ford v8, it's worth noting that if it's so far advanced than Holdens then why it is only sold in this country. Ford got parts together from different setups so they could promote OHC.

.........sorry. That stuff about Fords V8 annoys me..

Happy motoring

I was trying to make a point that the ford V8 isnt better than HSV V8, so just because it has more technology doesnt mean its better. the HSV V8 makes more power, more torque, revs better, and gets better fuel economy. So technology isnt everything. Which means just because the MB has more tchnology than the caprice does not mean its a better car to drive.

Just a thought but maybe toyota own part of Drive and thats y Drive seem to be kissing up to toyota so much. Could be another marketing scam on toyotas part.

[spank]

-The Caprice basically performed as well as the MB in many areas, the main thing letting the Caprice down was its price. They (Drive) state that "as much as the Caprice's Commodore underpinnings and components give it an unbeatable price, it also holds back the vehicle's exclusivity. How special do you feel driving a longer Commodore with leather?"

but i like my longer commodore with leather, just as i like my shorter commodore with leather, and i am special , just ask my mum :lmao:

[clixanup]

Just because technology wise the MB has more doesnt mean it is a better car to drive.
830Nm. Repeat after me - eight hundred and thirty newton metres. Are you going to sit there and tell me it wouldn't be a better car to drive?

[duke5700]

830Nm. Repeat after me - eight hundred and thirty newton metres. Are you going to sit there and tell me it wouldn't be a better car to drive?

Bugger, you could throw 10K at the caprice with one of tuna's TT kits and have 1000nm. Its all piss and wind really the arguments of no consequence. Its about how the car steers as a whole, and if you have 300k to blow good luck to you and buy the MB if your a more normal person you will buy the holden and be completley happy.

[csv rulz]

the caprice $70k and the merc is $370k yet from what Clixanup is saying the MB is the better package coz it has 830nm.
the MB is $300k dearer than the caprice imagine what a caprice would be like if you spent $300k on it!

If you have $370k+ than y would you spend it all on an MB when you could bye the caprice spend a bit of money on it and have it flogging the crap out of the MB and probably have enough money left over to bye a house as well.

Maybe im an idiot but that would be more logical to me

[Holden Man]

Bahahaha... :rofl:

Someone needs a reality check. :yup:

So a Maybach would have to be a way better drive than an S class. It costs more and has more technology and comes standard with the 830nm engine.

Or would the S class perform similarly to the maybach for way less money. Say like the statesman performing similarly to the S class for way less money.

Yes you can't compare quality with the two but the way they drive and get the job done can be compared.


The Merc's cruise control automatically maintains safe distances from the vehicles in front of you. It can even apply the brakes and bring the car to a complete stop.


Wow that must come in handy if you had no feet or brain.

[SchrgdVSV6]

If you have $370k+ than y would you spend it all on an MB when you could bye the caprice spend a bit of money on it and have it flogging the crap out of the MB and probably have enough money left over to bye a house as well.
People who can afford cars like this ($370K gets you the big AMG stuff like the CLK65, SL65 with 600hp/1000nm), probably wouldnt know what a Caprice is. Even if they did it wouldnt impress the lads at the golf course or the yaucht club.
I cant see someone who makes $500K-$1M a year choosing a Caprice over an MB, irrespective of which is the best value for money when modded...

btw - A similar example to the Caprice would be a 500hp E63 which is about $250K. Still the customer base for these cars is vastly different.

Edit - Anywho we are getting way off topic.

[Knight Phlier]

The category is best luxury car over $60K. So why do they set the benchmark at $60K if exclusivity and a $250K+ asking price is the key to winning this category?

Why wouldn't they set the category to cars over $150K so that the exclusivity factor is in all the nominees. The category "Luxury car over $60K" sounds to me like the average joe with a good income can purchase the car, but in reality the population that could afford even a $250K car, would be < 1% of the population.

To me this is a reflection of the incompetence of the crew at Drive.com.au - surely they understand that, if that is the case then why bother with cars < $150K? Would it not be more realistic to have two categories say cars between 60-150K and cars 150K+? Rather than trying to make up the Caprice as something it is not and then giving it a crap review because it doesn't come up to the mark.

Drive.com.au - :flipoff:

[lowriding]

The category is best luxury car over $60K. So why do they set the benchmark at $60K if exclusivity and a $250K+ asking price is the key to winning this category?

Why wouldn't they set the category to cars over $150K so that the exclusivity factor is in all the nominees. The category "Luxury car over $60K" sounds to me like the average joe with a good income can purchase the car, but in reality the population that could afford even a $250K car, would be < 1% of the population.

To me this is a reflection of the incompetence of the crew at Drive.com.au - surely they understand that, if that is the case then why bother with cars < $150K? Would it not be more realistic to have two categories say cars between 60-150K and cars 150K+? Rather than trying to make up the Caprice as something it is not and then giving it a crap review because it doesn't come up to the mark.

Drive.com.au - :flipoff:

yep agreed a good point .It's a flawed concept.And not the first questionable thing ive read at drive. Perhaps why the award holds no prestige ? In any case they are showing some average journalism .

[macca33]

I've read a few of these comparisons and 'Best Car' awards and after reading this thread say this:-

The mere fact that the Caprice is being tested against some of these $150k+ cars does say something about the car as a whole.

That in itself would put the wind up the Khyber Passes of some people, don't you worry about that!

Yes, some people with more money than you could poke a stick at wouldn't be seen dead in the local flagship, but it is a VERY capable, luxurious and obtainable car for many people.

I've thought about what type of car I would buy if the big lotto win came through and trust me, it isn't an S Class Benz. AMG Benz maybe - but they don't make them in manual!!!

Cheers,

Macca

[Danv8]

Bah Mercedes Benz is overated.
One thing is I wouldn't spend over $100,000 on a car.

Bugger that rather invest it. :)

[chomper]

Drive is moron automotive journalism at it's worst. 'Nuff said.