Oil Test by Street Commodores Magazine - dial up beware

[Animal]

Provided by the guys a SC.

Some very good reading.

This is the background info and testing standards.


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p1.jpg


Some of the resluts are very disturbing :errr:


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p2.jpg


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p3.jpg


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p4.jpg


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p5.jpg


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p6.jpg


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p7.jpg


http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/Animal/Oil%20Test/Oil%20Test%20p8.jpg




.

[VooDoo]

Would be interesting to see these same oils tested after 10000k's in an engine. Looks like the Royal Purple stuff is the way to go for protection although they didnt test any Mainline products.

[Tre-Cool]

awesome, i've been running the penrite 5w60 in my last few engine oil changes.

Looks like my choice was a good one.

[CalaisRider]

Thanks Animal great post, and perfect timing for me as I am currently cosidering what oil to run from here on in; and quite surprised by some of the early test results shown.

[aperfectcircle]

Thats a good right up I think:D

Might go for some royal purple next oil change.

[Hammer]

clearly shows you how poor some oils "claim to be the best"

i guess the old sayings true . you get what u pay for and "oils ain't oils"


:werd:

[monarocv804]

I have been using Royal Purple in my VS Ute (20w50)and my Monaro (10w40) since I read this article in March 2006. I was so impressed with engine oil, i also use it in my gearbox (Synchromax) and diff (MaxGear). It has made a big difference, especially in the ease of gear changes. I recently had my car tuned and the figures that I got even suprised the tuner. I told that I had Royal Purple all the way through and he said that it all helps. It's a bit hard to find so if your on the Sunshine Coast in QLD, PM me and I will give you the adress where you can get some. :driving:

[Bravotwozero]

I have been using Royal Purple in my VS Ute (20w50)and my Monaro (10w40) since I read this article in March 2006. I was so impressed with engine oil, i also use it in my gearbox (Synchromax) and diff (MaxGear). It has made a big difference, especially in the ease of gear changes. I recently had my car tuned and the figures that I got even suprised the tuner. I told that I had Royal Purple all the way through and he said that it all helps. It's a bit hard to find so if your on the Sunshine Coast in QLD, PM me and I will give you the adress where you can get some. :driving:

www.royalpurple.com.au

List of distributors there! ;)

[HSV,_I_GOT_ONE]

I would have thought a lot of these oils tested would have been too thin for an LS1?

[travyss]

I believe SC admitted some flaws in their testing procedure shortly after publishing this. The conclusion was the procedure and testing equipment would be more valid for evaluating performance of grease etc rather than engine oil.
I am not a full bottle on tribology (study of wear, lubrications, friction etc ) so cannot personally comment. Although, I was a little skeptical when I saw this article. The results from experimental work are obviously dependant on the inputs so a little bit of knowledge can become a dangerous thing.
I know some of my friends have been involved in this area at university (Mechanical Engineering) and it is incredibly in-depth and complex. In fact people have phDs (Doctorate) based solely in tribology. I would suggest this information should be viewed with this in mind.

[motionSS]

a fantastic write up. even if it isnt 100% acurate, it definitly give us a rough idea as to what is good and what is not.

[Nobby]

Wow, from a purely uneducated spectators view, it looks very much Royal Purple FTW, but Valvoline if you cant find the RP anywhere.

Could the motorheads around here explain if this is totally acurate, or are there other factors not reflected by this test?

[GHZ28]

Yes, this was back in about March this year when this hit the press, and they admitted later that the testing was more suited to diff and gearbox oils, something they did not know at the time.

They have said they would revisit it with testing more in line with the conditions in an engine, but so far I have not seen it.

No doubt, now that this has been raised again, 450kw Adventra will have a thing or two to say....

gh




I believe SC admitted some flaws in their testing procedure shortly after publishing this. The conclusion was the procedure and testing equipment would be more valid for evaluating performance of grease etc rather than engine oil.
.

[Curtis-R]

Awsome. Im going Mobil 1 next change see how that goes. :driving:

[ti0350]

They wrote something in issue 116 that the tests they performed may be irrelevant.. They also said they would have a more indepth look at oil in the future showing why their tests were irrelevant..
Just happen to have my my copy of the mag in the desk drawer..

[fekason]

I remember reading this test with real surprise.

I had seen numerous real test results from independent laboratories at a time when I had responsibility for fuel and lubricant engineering standards in the ADF, and it was obvious that the Street Commodore results were not valid.

The fact that it was later admitted that the test procedure was not appropriate for engine oil says it all. I would pay absolutely no attention to this report. I will continue to use Mobil 1 with full confidence.

[German Statesman]

Very interesting - I had good results with Mobil Synth S in the 740iL, and fantastic results with Conoco Hydroclear.

[CalaisRider]

Excuse my ignorance but when you put different oils in your motors - how do you "know" that one is actually better than the other. Not being a smartarse, just askin.

Its a real important issue to me as I want my baby to have the best there is...

[AussieTone]

Can anyone confirm what oil comes standard in the VE V8 range. I don't think they change the oil at the 3000km service (can anyone confirm this). If so obviously they think it is OK for the full 15000km between changes.

Are people getting the oil changed at the 3000km service

[Wonky]

Can anyone confirm what oil comes standard in the VE V8 range. I don't think they change the oil at the 3000km service (can anyone confirm this). If so obviously they think it is OK for the full 15000km between changes.

Are people getting the oil changed at the 3000km service
I will definitely be getting mine changed at 3,000km, same as I've had done on my three previous LS1s at the first inspection. :yup:

[CalaisRider]

Can anyone confirm what oil comes standard in the VE V8 range. I don't think they change the oil at the 3000km service (can anyone confirm this). If so obviously they think it is OK for the full 15000km between changes.

Are people getting the oil changed at the 3000km service


Hi Aussie Tone

I'm coming up for my first service too and heard they don't change the oil. I've given mine a bit of a heavy reigime of run/break in, so I'm getting holden to do the checks, trim fixes and other little niggles. Then goin to do an oil change, "probably" with the Royal Purple, hence my interest in what is best:wave:

PS. My Prado was the same first service - drop in, once over and out all within an hour - no oil change their either.

[keen]

Royal Purple Raceing 51 is the only oil I have used in my GTS since the motor got rebuilt.Untill Sam tells me to do otherwise I will use it.

[CarlFST60L]

Royal Purple Raceing 51 is the only oil I have used in my GTS since the motor got rebuilt.Untill Sam tells me to do otherwise I will use it.

I've heard quite a few people now say they have seen stripped engines that have been running Royal Purple and they are 'like new' :bow:

Now the big questions, anyone know if you can get this stuff delievered, i just dont have time to go find get if before next friday, and dont even know of anywhere within half hour that might have it in stock...

[Crusty]

Excuse my ignorance but if this Royal Purple is so great why isn't it stocked everywhere?

[CarlFST60L]

Excuse my ignorance but if this Royal Purple is so great why isn't it stocked everywhere?

Seems lots of places do ;)

http://www.royalpurple.com.au/html/s01_home/home.asp?dsb=25 (Click the Distributors)

I think the main problem is people dont want to pay double the price for there oil

[Crusty]

Seems lots of places do ;)

http://www.royalpurple.com.au/html/s01_home/home.asp?dsb=25 (Click the Distributors)

I think the main problem is people dont want to pay double the price for there oil

I have no prob paying for decent oil, I'm using Mobil 1 at the moment, I'm in Vic so 2 distributors isn't much good to me :(

[IH8FPV]

Ive been using Valvoline Durablend 10w-40 since the artical came out in my ute, Cant fault it but there is a distributer in west gosford for Royal Purple so i will give it ago next oil change

[Blown 454 AWD]

I have read the way this test has been performed and have quite a few areas of concern.

Although the Falex test machine is usually used for grease and sometimes E P Gear Oil and not engine oil, if used correctly, can give quite an indication of FILM STRENGHT ONLY.

That said, this is the area most of us are concerned with, wear and tear because of overloading our machinery with hp upgrades.

I will discuss their methods with our chief chemist and return with a better view on this report. This may take a couple of days.

Of course the best way to SEE if a lubricant is doing its job is to run it under your conditions at your normal change period then FILTERGRAM (http://files.mainlube.com/files/Filtergram/New%20Filtergram%202.pdf)the oil to SEE how much metal is in the oil, this would mean you have to try each one.

See here (http://files.mainlube.com/files/Filtergram/LS1/6041%20ACT-Cross8%20-%20Motor%20-%20Mobil%201.pdf) and here (http://files.mainlube.com/files/Filtergram/LS1/6042%20ACT-Cross8%20-%20Motor%20-%20Motul.pdf) and here (http://www.excelerate.com.au/downloads/ls1/450kw/6072%20Steve%20Adventra%20Motor.pdf).

The Falex test could certainly narrow your test field and save allot of time and money if done correctly.

A ppm test is also very relevant to tell you how your additives are standing up to your conditions with time in service however, ppm only sees under 7 to 10 microns therefore not so good for wear metal analysis. Elevated ppm still is a good indication that further analysis such as Filtergram is needed to identify the area of concern.

Cheers

Steve

[CarlFST60L]

I have read the way this test has been performed and have quite a few areas of concern.
Steve

Great info steve

So what of Royal Purple? Is it 'the best'?

I know of two engines that were stripped after running high HP, both running Royal Purple, and the results, as i have been told, were unbelievable (both by two diffrent reputable work shops)...

[Ausmartin1]

Awsome. Im going Mobil 1 next change see how that goes. :driving:

But why it didn't perform very well, in may have detergent or high temp ability this test did not show, but from a load bearing test get the mobile S it's cheaper and performs better if you have to stick with Mobil.

[SS_Fury]

i would have thought the oils were a bit thin for ls1's too?

[macca_779]

Excuse my ignorance but if this Royal Purple is so great why isn't it stocked everywhere?

Who care's I'm going to start buying it from the States in 5gal containers. Save a shitload.

[HRT 8]

But why it didn't perform very well, but from a load bearing test get the mobile S it's cheaper and performs better if you have to stick with Mobil.
Its already been pointed out. THE TEST WAS INVALID.

[CalaisRider]

Who care's I'm going to start buying it from the States in 5gal containers. Save a shitload.

Just come back from Cannon Hill Super Cheap - they have bucketloads of brands/types but not Royal Purple. Might have to let my fingers do the walking or my mechanic to get it in for me!!:eek:

[Vulture]

Hang, now everyone is going ga-ga over this Royal Purple stuff due to an oil film strength test which has already been shown as having minimal importance as an overall measure of engine oil performance. Am I missing something?

[HRT 8]

Hang, now everyone is going ga-ga over this Royal Purple stuff due to an oil film strength test which has already been shown as having minimal importance as an overall measure of engine oil performance. Am I missing something?
Your not actually Simon. A few guys are relying on word of mouth stuff about seeing engines pulled dwn after running RP and being in good shape, while others are not reading the whole thread and juping to the conclusion that RP is tops.

[German Statesman]

Your not actually Simon. A few guys are relying on word of mouth stuff about seeing engines pulled dwn after running RP and being in good shape, while others are not reading the whole thread and juping to the conclusion that RP is tops.

I agree - everyone should take a cold shower and re-read the "inconclusive" comments that were quoted on here from the magazine themselves.

[HRT 8]

I agree - everyone should take a cold shower and re-read the "inconclusive" comments that were quoted on here from the magazine themselves.
It is an internet forum after all.
Here's one. ;)

Mobil One recently outrated and outperformed all other engine oils it was tested agianst, in the US for overall engine protection.
It excelled in the cold start up areas.

[diabolic]

So say you narrow down the brand, what's the best way to decide what weight to use? Seems everyone is using something different..

Cheers

[lethal66]

What a load of crap,sif u would beleive any of that garbage about that test.I will be staying with mobil 1 hsv would of spent millions on oils to find the best oil for there cars and for there race cars and this simple test bags it.What a joke

[Crusty]

What a load of crap,sif u would beleive any of that garbage about that test.I will be staying with mobil 1 hsv would of spent millions on oils to find the best oil for there cars and for there race cars and this simple test bags it.What a joke

All I can say is that I'm not going to change from Mobil 1 based on that article anytime soon :)

[Sonnymad]

:lmao: This test sounds like a hollacast....or perhaps pulblicity stunt,wyns had that machine at my shop not so long ago to show how there friction proofing works ..:lol: ...steve from mainlube does some thorough testing with oils and i have seen plenty of samples he has tested for me..and all i can say is dont believe everything you read...

regards sonny

[Peter B - CV8]

What a load of crap,sif u would beleive any of that garbage about that test.I will be staying with mobil 1 hsv would of spent millions on oils to find the best oil for there cars and for there race cars and this simple test bags it.What a joke
Probably the other way around mate.. Mobil would be the one spending the $$$ to convince & sponsor hsv to use their product.

[CalaisRider]

:lmao: This test sounds like a hollacast....or perhaps pulblicity stunt,wyns had that machine at my shop not so long ago to show how there friction proofing works ..:lol: ...steve from mainlube does some thorough testing with oils and i have seen plenty of samples he has tested for me..and all i can say is dont believe everything you read...

regards sonny


Hi Sonny, your thoughts and advice on the best brand and weight for my Calais V would be appreciated??????

or is it just a case of seeing what Steve comes back with as per his post.. There is just so many views on this important topic:confused:

[OPPYLOCK]

They don't seem to provide much info on the testing procedure.
I'm curious as to what temprature the of oil in the bath when it is tested.
Maybe they didn't have time to mention all of the test conditions but it seems like this is a very simplistic test to determin what oil performs the best when they will be used in so many varous applications with infinate temprature and pressure conditions.
I know that many of these companies use exactly the same mineral/synthetic base stock as well as additives so I'm surprised they performed so differently in this test.

[Sonnymad]

Hi Sonny, your thoughts and advice on the best brand and weight for my Calais V would be appreciated??????

or is it just a case of seeing what Steve comes back with as per his post.. There is just so many views on this important topic:confused:

Wait for steves post,he will come with some good solid info,thought if you get a chance gimme a all and i,ll have a chat with you regarding oils :)

regards sonny


They don't seem to provide much info on the testing procedure.
I'm curious as to what temprature the of oil in the bath when it is tested.
.


Very good question,we did some oil testing a while bak on the dyno too see wat happens to oil temperature under heavy loads,lets just say some of the cheaper oils survived alot longer than the expensive ones :nyuk:

regards sonny

[CalaisRider]

Thanks Sonny, appreciate the time and effort!!

Pete

[macca_779]

What a load of crap,sif u would beleive any of that garbage about that test.I will be staying with mobil 1 hsv would of spent millions on oils to find the best oil for there cars and for there race cars and this simple test bags it.What a joke

Mobil Sponsors HSV/HRT to use their product. It has nothing to do with HSV believing its the best product for their engines. If any other brand were to come to HSV and offer a better deal they would change I guarantee. Mobil 1 is overrated, that has been proven many times by people on this forum and engine builders alike.

[Animal]

Mobil Sponsors HSV/HRT to use their product. It has nothing to do with HSV believing its the best product for their engines. If any other brand were to come to HSV and offer a better deal they would change I guarantee.

100% correct - the only reason they use it is because Mobil pay $$$ for them to use it. The Castrol / Fuchs / Valvoline sponsored guys would do exactly the same.


What a load of crap,sif u would beleive any of that garbage about that test.I will be staying with mobil 1 hsv would of spent millions on oils to find the best oil for there cars and for there race cars and this simple test bags it.What a joke

I think the joke is on you lethal, very clever marketing from Mobil and HSV.


Mobil 1 is overrated, that has been proven many times by people on this forum and engine builders alike.

I totally agree. Mobil 1 will never touch an engine of mine again.


Wait for steves post,he will come with some good solid info,thought if you get a chance gimme a all and i,ll have a chat with you regarding oils

Share it with us to Sonny, I'm sure a few other fella's here other than myself would like to hear what you think are good oils.

[EddieVE06]

Quick question. I understand the marketing thing that holden = mobil1 etc etc so their service centres push it.

However can someone explain why some dealers use mobil and other use caltex....are they the same parent company but different brands or are the oil companies able to approach different dealer networks?

[Funky_Munky]

Quick question. If someone were to summarise this whole thread. What would they recommend is the best oil for VY SS I.

I only ask cause I dont have time to read it at the moment. Thanks in advance.

[DaveHAT]

Quick question. If someone were to summarise this whole thread. What would they recommend is the best oil for VY SS I.

I only ask cause I dont have time to read it at the moment. Thanks in advance.

Short answer is that there is no short answer.

Some guys think Mobil 1 is the shit, others swear by Royal Purple, others shell where as I only use magnatec in mine. Each engine seems to respond differently depending on the individual engine. It's one of things where opinions are like arseholes ... everyone has one, unfortunately some stink ! :lmao:

Sorry that doesn't help you much but asking which is the best oil for Car X is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string.

[Funky_Munky]

Short answer is that there is no short answer.

Sorry that doesn't help you much but asking which is the best oil for Car X is a bit like asking how long is a piece of string.

Mate, it was good for a laugh. :thumbsup:

I guess Ill just have to wait until someone randomly mentions that such and such brand of oil is the best for an ls1.

By the way, how long is a piece of string. :P

[Aus8]

Always knew the Royal Purple and Penrite had the best names in the industry so to speak. Mobil 1??? Marketing hype! None of that going in my motor thats for sure. LOL at the person above saying that HSV invested millions into Mobil 1! LOL!

Aus8

[seldo]

Quick question. I understand the marketing thing that holden = mobil1 etc etc so their service centres push it.

However can someone explain why some dealers use mobil and other use caltex....are they the same parent company but different brands or are the oil companies able to approach different dealer networks?
The oil used by each dealer is an independant decision made by each dealership, and is usually arrived at by negotiating a deal with the oil company. In some instances, depending on the size of the dealership and therefore the anticipated oil volume, the oil company will say that they will repaint the workshop for them and maybe supply some new hoists and other equipment as part of the deal. And, funnily enough, cost/litre is negotiated with a contract and annual agreed increases.

[Lunchbox]

By the way, how long is a piece of string. :P


Twice half it's length of course

[R8VX2]

Oil is highly over-rated and a complete waste of money. Oil companies spend millions each year on advertising to keep us all suckered into believing that we need it. Just put some name-your-brand-here oil additive in, run for a few thousand k's, then drop the oil and all is good for the life of the motor. No more hassles with expensive mucky oil to ever bother with again. ;) :hide:

[Sonnymad]

Share it with us to Sonny, I'm sure a few other fella's here other than myself would like to hear what you think are good oils.

I have nothing to share with you ken,you have already made ur mind up ;),best to speak to ur mechanic.

regards sonny

[RedVYIISS]

God advice, speak to your mechanic. Your driving style, engine mods, state of your engine may well change his recommendation.

My mechanic, fella up here :rofl: made a recommendation based upon my engine, my mods, and knowing the fact that it'll only be in my engine for 4 or 5 weeks before it's shot out and changed.

[Febs]

Anyone else use Castrol Magnatec 10W40? I've been using it since my rebuild (40,000km ago or thereabouts) and find it good. Under $30 for 5L (or is that 4? I can't remember...), and it keeps the LS1 nice and quiet. Can't say I'm a mechanic, so I haven't stripped the engine down to see what it looks like, but I haven't had any major problems using this stuff every 5-7,000km. :)

Cheers,
- Febs.

[GTSAdam]

Seemingly good results for the Penrite I use, mind if the tests are irrelevant, then who knows

[Animal]

I have nothing to share with you ken,you have already made ur mind up ;),best to speak to ur mechanic.

regards sonny

Aww Sonny, you dodging my question :)

I make no secrets that the Mobil1 the was supplied and recommended by Heartland Holden / HSV when I initially had the Monaro serviced was happily poured into a bin. The state of the engine when it was pulled down was disgusting.

And yes I now use Royal Purple, when you spend the amount of money I have on an engine you want the best available :) And I have been using it long before the SC test was done.

You for one would know how many oil reps visit workshops trying to convince you that their oil is better than the other guys. I was just wondering what you recommend. I'm getting the feeling that mainlube might be one :)



God advice, speak to your mechanic. Your driving style, engine mods, state of your engine may well change his recommendation.

Ok, after speaking with my mechanic, my LS-1 which I occasionally take to the strip, drive daily, enjoy giving it a bit of stick and frying the tyres ..... wait a sec .... I think that covers about 80% of the guys on here :stupid:


Just thought maybey some good advice will assist the others on here. Sharing some info, fellow LS-1 guys, give them the good oil

[Sonnymad]

Aww Sonny, you dodging my question :)

I make no secrets that the Mobil1 the was supplied and recommended by Heartland Holden / HSV when I initially had the Monaro serviced was happily poured into a bin. The state of the engine when it was pulled down was disgusting.

And yes I now use Royal Purple, when you spend the amount of money I have on an engine you want the best available :) And I have been using it long before the SC test was done.

You for one would know how many oil reps visit workshops trying to convince you that their oil is better than the other guys. I was just wondering what you recommend. I'm getting the feeling that mainlube might be one :)




Ok, after speaking with my mechanic, my LS-1 which I occasionally take to the strip, drive daily, enjoy giving it a bit of stick and frying the tyres ..... wait a sec .... I think that covers about 80% of the guys on here :stupid:


Just thought maybey some good advice will assist the others on here. Sharing some info, fellow LS-1 guys, give them the good oil

Thanks for ur input ken i,ll consider it,but not in this lifetime ;)

regards sonny

[fatas]

Hey sonny you got sum oil for the barge mate is it purple in colour :p
just think how that would sell :p
may be a new maketing tool for steve purple oil !!!! :deal: :p :werd: :thumbsup: :sux:

[RedVYIISS]

Ok, after speaking with my mechanic, my LS-1 which I occasionally take to the strip, drive daily, enjoy giving it a bit of stick and frying the tyres ..... wait a sec .... I think that covers about 80% of the guys on here


Ken,

Totally different ball game with F/I V's N/A. With F/I the nature of the 'system' is that any blowby will carry pollutants of many different varieties into the crankcase and attempt to dilute your oil... and turn it into a corrosive suspension of non lubricating, abrasive crap....

The simplest solution is to use an oil that provides good lubricating qualities and is cheap... as the simplest way to stop accumulation of dilutants and 'crap' is to change it frequently.... far more frequently than you would a N/A engine, where it may be more prudent to use a better quality 'longer life' oil.

[matthewfnorbert]

I believe SC admitted some flaws in their testing procedure shortly after publishing this. The conclusion was the procedure and testing equipment would be more valid for evaluating performance of grease etc rather than engine oil.
I am not a full bottle on tribology (study of wear, lubrications, friction etc ) so cannot personally comment. Although, I was a little skeptical when I saw this article. The results from experimental work are obviously dependant on the inputs so a little bit of knowledge can become a dangerous thing.
I know some of my friends have been involved in this area at university (Mechanical Engineering) and it is incredibly in-depth and complex. In fact people have phDs (Doctorate) based solely in tribology. I would suggest this information should be viewed with this in mind.

you are right this test has very little to do with oil performance and should never have been published, we also entered the metric system 40 years ago! The primary role of lubrication is to keep parts apart and maintain oil integrity, not see what happens when metal to metal takes place, a symptom of some other problem...

Testing to reveal actual oil performance would have been beneficial, this may involve: testing oil chemical and physical properties , inspection (microscopic particle examination) of oil debris for wear modes/indicators and testing oil cleanliness to established ISO standards. These are the true tests of oil/machine performance.

For our application the best thing you can do is to use the correct viscosity (quality stable oil, may or may not be synth) and change out the oil regularly. We do not change oil out because it has 'broken down', we change it out to remove normal wear debris, the oil chemical and physical properties at this point should still be good.

so long life oils may hold there spec (synth for eg.) but you are still pumping all that wear debris through your bearings!!

BTW oils that 'polish' or chemically etch components when put through studies of MPE and ISO cleanliness can actually initially create a lot of wear debris before the ISO codes settle down.. go figure.

anyway as suggested it is very complicated. just buy the best you can afford then change it out frequently. also buy a good oil filter (smallest possible debris size, they can vary a lot). if you are testing oil you will also see that a lot of debris (like silica/sand etc) enters the oil via your air filter and causes nasty wear modes which can be seen in the MPE, so buy a good air filter.


0.02c

[Wingnut]

Just to completely confuse everyone, found this on the web comparing the different oils in the states.

http://bestsyntheticoil.com/amsoil/technical-data-bulletins/Specs-Ranked-June-17-2003.pdf

[OPPYLOCK]

I love a good oil thread so heres a curve ball from left field just to muddy the water a little more.
How clean is your oil before it gets into your engine.
Depending on an oil companies quality processess and the amount of filtration and testing carried out, the amount of unwanted debris in the finished product can vary greatly.
I've seen paint flakes, metal filings, dirt and filter material in oil that is being filled into packaging ready to be sent to customers.
There are about a billion ways that oil can be contaminated before it reaches you and with the volume most companies are putting out it would be impossible to carry out the amount of testing required.
I'm not suggesting all oil companies are dodgy in their production methods but it might be wise to start with a brand that has a good reputation for quality.
Next time you do an oil change, pour your oil through some filter paper.... you may be surprised.

[Blown 454 AWD]

OK, I had a lengthy chat with our Chemist to day over the way this test was run.

They talk of using the Falex machine (as pictured) then they talk about the type of test the Falex machine is famous for, being the “Timken OK Load” test. This test is used to show film strength in greases and sometimes gear oils.

When we got the bibles out and went through the procedure for the “Timken OK Load” test, it didn’t resemble SC test very much, in fact, as SC stated on their first page, the “Timken OK Load” has no wear scar showing.

To cut a long story short, with the oil at about 38.8C you load the machine in 6 pound stages for 10 minutes at a time until the machine breaks through the film of oil and starts to scuff the surface of the metal. The test is then stopped and repeated at 3 pounds less, if there is now no rupturing of the hydronamic film ie, no metal to metal contact, this is the “Timken OK Load”.

So the summing up of this test means running of the machine with the heaviest weight for 10 minutes, without any metal pick up is the “Timken OK Load”.


The photos show large wear scars on several of the bearings, the test should have been stopped and adjusted so all the bearings looked like the Penrite / Royal bearings and the difference between the oils would be the loading in pounds (not psi) without a wear scar, this would be somewhere between 20 and 70 lbs Timken OK Load.

As there was bugger all guide lines as to oil temperature, length of test in minutes or even the ASTM test number that such a test can be compared to or checked against, one has to say the results are not reliable enough to make decisions on which oil is better.

I may be able to get hold of the actual test and post for all to see.



It is very hard for a test like this to simulate running conditions, you really need to run the oil for 5 to 10,000 klms then carry out ppm for oil condition and Filtergram wear metal analysis. Then change to the next oil and run under the same conditions then you have a real test. If you compare the results of the 3 Filtergrams on page 2 of this post, that is a real indication of wear sustained over a distance. Things like heat and contamination (the biggest killer of any machine) take there toll in real situations that don’t show up in lab tests.

Cheers

Steve

The "Timken OK Load" test procedure I have referred to above is the ASTM D2782 test

Cheers

Steve

[Animal]

Totally different ball game with F/I V's N/A. With F/I the nature of the 'system' is that any blowby will carry pollutants of many different varieties into the crankcase and attempt to dilute your oil... and turn it into a corrosive suspension of non lubricating, abrasive crap....

The simplest solution is to use an oil that provides good lubricating qualities and is cheap... as the simplest way to stop accumulation of dilutants and 'crap' is to change it frequently.... far more frequently than you would a N/A engine, where it may be more prudent to use a better quality 'longer life' oil.

Which is why I noted that this effect's over 80% of the guys on here. I honestly think that less than 5% of the crew that are on here are run FI. I understand that FI, especiallt turbo'd motors, required a better quality of oil. I ran a rajay turbo on my XU-1 for a while. Many bearings were required to be replaced because of my lack of knowledge on the stuff. And the mechanic's around at the time were also getting a better grip on the slippery stuff.

I don't understand oil as well as some of the fella's on here which is why I asked Sonny for his comments. I know Sam's already and Steve from Mainlube's insight's are very well received ( :cheers: for the research info Steve ). We are lucky to have members like him that provide an accurate insight.

Seem's some are happy to share info to our community whislt others reserve it for their clients only.


I love a good oil thread so heres a curve ball from left field just to muddy the water a little more.
How clean is your oil before it gets into your engine.
Depending on an oil companies quality processess and the amount of filtration and testing carried out, the amount of unwanted debris in the finished product can vary greatly.
I've seen paint flakes, metal filings, dirt and filter material in oil that is being filled into packaging ready to be sent to customers.
There are about a billion ways that oil can be contaminated before it reaches you and with the volume most companies are putting out it would be impossible to carry out the amount of testing required.
I'm not suggesting all oil companies are dodgy in their production methods but it might be wise to start with a brand that has a good reputation for quality.
Next time you do an oil change, pour your oil through some filter paper.... you may be surprised.

I love a good oil thread too, one of the reasons I took the time to scan and post the info here. And I totally agree with your comments. A few too many guys here live for a brand. This thread is was done to open a few eyes.

Ken

.

[High Octane]

Just my two cents, My Z28 equiped with an LT1 has 1,009,000 Miles on it that’s 1,623,481 Kilometers. Most of witch were full throttle tyre smoking race day miles, currently on the sixth set of tyres.

The car has had Mobile 1 in it since the first oil change. I have changed the oil every 3000 Mi (4827Km) with new filter. It doesn’t smoke or burn oil, has the same power it had from day one.

My LS1 Monaro has 21,000 Miles (33,789Km) again Mobile 1 from first oil change. The car has been to 12 race tracks (V8 Supercar) type tracks. I’d say roughly 1500 to 2000 Miles (3218Km) of tracking, meaning RPM’s at a constant 4000 to 6200 red line. Absolutely no sign of wear or damage to the engine. I ignore the stupid oil change system and have changed every 3000Mi (4827Km) with new filer.

[Crusty]

Just my two cents, My Z28 equiped with an LT1 has 1,009,000 Miles on it that’s 1,623,481 Kilometers. Most of witch were full throttle tyre smoking race day miles, currently on the sixth set of tyres.

The car has had Mobile 1 in it since the first oil change. I have changed the oil every 3000 Mi (4827Km) with new filter. It doesn’t smoke or burn oil, has the same power it had from day one.

My LS1 Monaro has 21,000 Miles (33,789Km) again Mobile 1 from first oil change. The car has been to 12 race tracks (V8 Supercar) type tracks. I’d say roughly 1500 to 2000 Miles (3218Km) of tracking, meaning RPM’s at a constant 4000 to 6200 red line. Absolutely no sign of wear or damage to the engine. I ignore the stupid oil change system and have changed every 3000Mi (4827Km) with new filer.


Some good info there, I'll continue to use Mobil 1 untill such time as that someone proves it's not the stuff to use.