Maf tune with cold air intake.

[frcek86]

Can any one tell me if it is true that if i get a cold air intake for my vy series 2 SS i have to get a maf or mafless tune? Very new to this v8 game. just got my baby and am working out my plan of attack. Intake and pacemaker extractors seem to be the first step. But somebody told me i would need a special tune for it. Thanks for your help. Nick.:driving:

[OUTAtheBloo]

I wouldnt say you have to, most people change the intakes when they do get a tune.

Plently of different types of cold air intakes around, by far the best is the OTRCAI (over the radiator cold air intake)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b156/KeishaSimba/otr.jpg

This one here is by higgins, and is aluminium. There are other manufacturers around that do them with the maf, but alot of people go mafless tunes now.

Hope this helps

Dan

[team illucid]

Can any one tell me if it is true that if i get a cold air intake for my vy series 2 SS i have to get a maf or mafless tune? Very new to this v8 game. just got my baby and am working out my plan of attack. Intake and pacemaker extractors seem to be the first step. But somebody told me i would need a special tune for it. Thanks for your help. Nick.:driving:

I have MAF with my Sureflo OTR ... now worries about where it is driven or anything like that.

[HOT LAP]

Any side mounted air box can go straight on no probs without a tune Kostecki make one of the better ones of these.
The over the top of the radiator intake shown on blooness car is Very good indeed but requires a maffless tune

[vyssls1]

I have MAF with my Sureflo OTR ... now worries about where it is driven or anything like that.



does the maf sit hard up against the air filter in this setup. Just curious....

[TUNDV8]

vyssls1

Im sure all the questions that you have will be answered in the thread i created earlier on this year when i went OTRCAI with a maf retained setup. Only thing you need to remember is to keep the piece of piping they cut off so the maf fits in, so that if you ever decide to go mafless you can still use ur OTRCAI without having to buy a new one.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=49026

The thread above includes pics for your convenience :D

[team illucid]

does the maf sit hard up against the air filter in this setup. Just curious....
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=43540&highlight=illucid+MAF

close, but not up hard.

[frcek86]

Thanks for the info on my question! But as i said i am very new to this stuff and am wanting to learn, so here comes a dumb question. Can yo tell me what actually is a maf & mafless tune?? Thanks Nick

[macca_779]

Thanks for the info on my question! But as i said i am very new to this stuff and am wanting to learn, so here comes a dumb question. Can yo tell me what actually is a maf & mafless tune?? Thanks Nick

Ok a MAFLESS tune on a stock OS will disable the high spark table in a cal as this is registered as a fail the PCM goes into a safety mode in a fashion. When this is done ala on the GTS the low spark table is used exclusively. Not so great as there is nowhere for knock retard to go if the lower table is tuned for maximum performance. Custom OS's like EFI Live's OS3/OS5 re-enable the high table. So knock protection is used once more.

Now the VE table is what the PCM uses to calculate how much air is coming into the engine. Standard these tables aren't very accurate and this is where the MAF comes in. It esentially aids the VE table under certain loads like constant throttle and above about 4000 to provide accurate values. So if the VE table is accurate to begin with the MAF has nothing to do. This is why when a tuner tunes a car they not only alter AFR's and timing. But make the VE table more accurate. MAF's by design are quite restrictive due to the honeycomb in them to align the air to give an accurate reading. So if you remove the MAF you get a more efficient intake track and thus make more power. Its just critical that the VE table is accurate as there is no longer a MAF to refine the table. There is alot of speculation about running MAFLESS cars under different environments than what they were originally tuned for. And yes this does have some merrit. But with the adoption of the IAT VE multiplier in custom operating systems. This has pretty much resolved the issue. The only set back with going MAFLESS is that if you make the whole engine breath better by say an exhaust or better intake like an OTRCAI. You essentially throw out the VE table a bit. Not much but enough if AFR's are tuned leanish. This is why nearly all tuners will tune slightly rich to cover the variables.

[frcek86]

Thanks for your in depth answer!! Had to read it a couple of times but the whole principle is clear now. I get that a maf is a honeycombe type (filter) in the air intake. And removing the maf means you have to re tune, ie mafless tune. Thanks.
Do all cold air intakes require you to remove the maf?? Or just the most effective ones?
Does the Growler cold air intake operate on the mafless principle?

Thanks again Nick.

[vyssls1]

vyssls1

Im sure all the questions that you have will be answered in the thread i created earlier on this year when i went OTRCAI with a maf retained setup. Only thing you need to remember is to keep the piece of piping they cut off so the maf fits in, so that if you ever decide to go mafless you can still use ur OTRCAI without having to buy a new one.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=49026

The thread above includes pics for your convenience :D

Cheers for that info, but i was refering to the sureflow design.

My curiousity on this exact OTR, as in my opinion, the design of the one in mention, has got the maf placed in a incorrect position.

Where others have it placed in the correct position, in my opinion......

[macca_779]

Thanks for your in depth answer!! Had to read it a couple of times but the whole principle is clear now. I get that a maf is a honeycombe type (filter) in the air intake. And removing the maf means you have to re tune, ie mafless tune. Thanks.
Do all cold air intakes require you to remove the maf?? Or just the most effective ones?
Does the Growler cold air intake operate on the mafless principle?

Thanks again Nick.

Not all OTRCAI's require removal of the MAF. There will be a rubber extender that can be removed so the maf can fit in just before the TB.

[chillicatqld]

:flame: mate you can throw a Growler, or Yellow Terra or any similar airbpx on your standard tune car and not need for it to be tuned. The PCM will recalibrate (adjust) itself according to the new variables. When you get a tune (either MAF or MAfless) the PCM is locked - so there is no longer any variables.

This is a basic overview only .... I am positive someone will shoot me down with my description - but that is the "basics" of it. :flame: :flame:

[JezzaB]

:flame: mate you can throw a Growler, or Yellow Terra or any similar airbpx on your standard tune car and not need for it to be tuned. The PCM will recalibrate (adjust) itself according to the new variables. When you get a tune (either MAF or MAfless) the PCM is locked - so there is no longer any variables.

This is a basic overview only .... I am positive someone will shoot me down with my description - but that is the "basics" of it. :flame: :flame:

:lol:

Read Macca's very correct post. All the information in there.

[macca_779]

:flame: mate you can throw a Growler, or Yellow Terra or any similar airbpx on your standard tune car and not need for it to be tuned. The PCM will recalibrate (adjust) itself according to the new variables. When you get a tune (either MAF or MAfless) the PCM is locked - so there is no longer any variables.

This is a basic overview only .... I am positive someone will shoot me down with my description - but that is the "basics" of it. :flame: :flame:

Sort of true. The MAF will account for the higher volume of air coming in. But the main problem lies in the spark table and this is true for all standard tunes I've looked at. You see what Holden/HSV did when they calibrated the cal's for each car was give a max timing for the amount of air the car should be getting in with standard hardware. Now throwing on more efficient intake or exhaust allows more air to be pumped through the engine. The values above what the factory deemed max for standard bolt ons actually starts to reduce in the timing tables. So the gains made by changing things like intake and exhaust are limited by the reduced timing enforced by the standard tune. Thats why cars need to be tuned to take full advantage of any mod.

[chillicatqld]

see.... I stand corrected.