How Long Does It Take Police To File An Accident Report?

[Wonky]

On Cup Day my daughter’s boyfriend got caught out by the power and shift violence of the Munro he had had for only a couple of weeks. It was his first powerful car (230rwkw) and the auto had been shift kitted by the previous owner. I won't bore you with all the details now but result – one beautiful Munro into a pole (written off), fortunately no injuries to either my daughter or her boyfriend.

The police have put two and two together and come up with five i.e. they seem to think given the car and his age that he must have been hooning when there is no evidence to support that. Hell, even Peter Brock with all his driving skills and experience can lose control on a corner……

The police attended the accident breathalysed him - all clear. They told him next day or soon after that they were going to charge him with either reckless or dangerous driving. One of those if upheld in court would apparently result in any insurance claim being denied, so he is absolutely sweating on the outcome because he has well over $30,000 riding on it.

You can imagine what having that hanging over him is doing to a young, sensible person, yet the bloody police STILL have not filed their report. His agony continues, especially since we are sure given what both my daughter and he say that in the time he had had the car he had treated it with absolute respect knowing its power relative to his previous cars. In fact in retrospect he should have previously done some hooning because then he wouldn't have been caught out in that set of circumstances by it stepping out in a big way on the shift into second when he wasn’t ready for it.

It seems to me like this copper is just being a total ar$ehole and making my daughter’s boyfriend suffer by dragging it out as long as he can. Are they trying to contribute to the suicide toll? (Not that I think he is likely to, but I can imagine that for some it would be enough to tip them over the edge at that age! Some do it for even lesser reasons.)

It has been 10 weeks so far and as of the end of last week the insurance company was still waiting for the police report. How long does it bloody take?? Is this guy just being a total pr$ck?

[SICK SS]

simular accendent might be of some help http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=67763&highlight=new+years+accident

[spanks]

The poor copper is proberly to busy filling out the damage report from Blockbuster video in Noble Park....:lmao:

[macca33]

Wonky, ring Accident Records at the Vic Police Centre, 9247 6666 (switchboard) and ask for that dept.

Inquire as to whether the copper has submitted the report - he WILL have, they HAVE to be submitted on the day of the collision attendance.

THEN, when they confirm it has been filed - get onto the insurance co. and give them a rev.

The reason it is being held up is because they either haven't paid the fee to obtain the collision report, or they are waiting for the coppers to indicate whether they will/will not be submitting a Brief, or they are going to investigate the circumstances surrounding the collision with their own investigators.

There is a 12 month Statute of Limitations in relation to the 'charging' of a person for a Summary Offence and quite frankly, the copper involved may be absolutely snowed under with other, more pressing, work at the moment.

As far as 2 + 2 = 5, how many other cars collided with that pole on that day?

Cheers,

Macca

[Wonky]

Wonky, ring Accident Records at the Vic Police Centre, 9247 6666 (switchboard) and ask for that dept.

Inquire as to whether the copper has submitted the report - he WILL have, they HAVE to be submitted on the day of the collision attendance.

THEN, when they confirm it has been filed - get onto the insurance co. and give them a rev.

The reason it is being held up is because they either haven't paid the fee to obtain the collision report, or they are waiting for the coppers to indicate whether they will/will not be submitting a Brief, or they are going to investigate the circumstances surrounding the collision with their own investigators.

There is a 12 month Statute of Limitations in relation to the 'charging' of a person for a Summary Offence and quite frankly, the copper involved may be absolutely snowed under with other, more pressing, work at the moment.

As far as 2 + 2 = 5, how many other cars collided with that pole on that day?

Cheers,

Macca
Thanks Macca. OK, possibly my terminology is incorrect but every time they ring RACV they are told that they are still waiting for something from the police before they can pay up. They apparently keep calling it the accident report but from what you say and from other things it is possibly to do with charges. If I understand correctly then if they charge him with reckless driving then the insurance company will pay up immediately but if they go ahead and charge him with dangerous driving then they won't pay up till the case has been heard because if that charge is upheld (which would be bloody ludicrous given the circumstances) they won't pay up.

Seems to me that the policeman in question thinks my daughter's boyfriend is a hoon, which is far from correct. He is a nice sensible kid who just happens to like nice cars and after saving hard could finally afford one. My daughter has lost an uncle and an aunt in accidents that weren't their fault, so knows too well the potential for tragedy on the road and won't drive with anybody who does anything dangerous or stupid.

As I said, knowing the power of the car her boyfriend had driven it carefully for the few weeks he had had it and that was in some respects his undoing.

Basically what happened is this: They were turning right at a set of traffic lights he was unfamiliar with from that direction (at right angles to the direction he normally goes). Very unusually for these days around here there is no right turn filter there, plus just beyond the other side of the intersection there is a bit of a dip in the road from which cars can suddenly seem to appear. Being worried about cars speeding out from the dip he accelerated a little harder than normal, but according to my daughter who I trust implicitly, he certainly didn’t anywhere near plant it or anything.

Unfortunately for him the previous owner had had a shift kit put in the auto and the unexpected violence of the shift into 2nd caused by that at moderate acceleration whilst turning caused the rear step out and start spinning. The car hit the centre median strip, blowing a tyre and spinning them across the road into a pole on the left side of the road.

Far from being the hoon the policeman seems to think he is, he was actually caught out because he hadn't hooned (somewhere quiet) to find out how his car reacted in circumstances of anything but gentle acceleration ........ :(

Initially they were told by the police a day or two after the accident that due to the tyre marks on the road they thought he had slid around the corner lairising. We thought that was total bullshit as there were no skid marks that we could see except after where it hit the median strip. Next, a few days later they changed their story and were complaining about a lack of skidmarks and saying he hadn't braked. :shock: Hello???? Haven't they heard about ABS??? And what about not braking if you are sliding???

As I said, it really sounds to me like this cop has, with no actual evidence to support his case only a (poor) gut feeling, looked at the lovely car it was and my daughter's boyfriend's age and decided he must be a hoon and is going to get him any way he can.

Jeezus Christ! When all the kids are out dragging down in Noble Park etc or doing 360s at the major intersection 50m from our back fence he and my daughter are in bed here fast asleep (or something) .........

I understand that police have lots of paperwork but this guy's failure to do whatever the insurance company is waiting on (10 weeks so far) is causing my daughter's boyfriend's family and ours much angst. It's also of course unfairly weighing very heavily on him given he knows he could be facing what is effectively a trumped up charge that could unfairly cost him $30,000+, when all he did was get caught out by the power of his car and shift kitted auto at maybe 50 or 60 kmh.

Our family is one of those who understand how difficult a job policing is and respects them but this whole situation is beginning to cause us to question that, at least in respect of certain officers.

[`redoctober]

With the amount of young hoons cops have to deal with, they seem to think every accident a young bloke has is because of hooning.

My brother had an accident similar to this, and because he was 18, the cops wanted to charge him with reckless driving and whatnot, even though there were no skids. I'm sure he'll post what happened in this thread tomorrow, or the day after.

It's the biggest case of the minority ruining it for the majority, I'd love to get those dickheads from noble park and beat some sense into them, they just give a bad name to all young drivers.

[hell-met]

Geez, it must be an absolute torque monster!!!! Ha Ha

Not being critical, but it looks like he just f#%ked up. Can't blame the transmission, it's driver error.
.
Sounds like it is your insurance company not pulling its weight, i would give them a call and make the lazy pricks do the chasing! Thats what you pay them for, right.
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Good luck with it.

[wrexed03]

Hi Wonky sorry to hear about the accident. Something to consider have any of these mods been discolosed to the insurance co?? If not this could cause a potential problem in regards to payout due to duty of disclosure. Something to think about. Shoot me an email for further information cause i have been down this path and this type of battle in the past..

Regards

[Merlin]

Geez, it must be an absolute torque monster!!!! Ha Ha

Not being critical, but it looks like he just f#%ked up. Can't blame the transmission, it's driver error.
.
Sounds like it is your insurance company not pulling its weight, i would give them a call and make the lazy pricks do the chasing! Thats what you pay them for, right.
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Good luck with it.


I agree - he shouldnt be driving it if he cant handle it...Dont blame the auto transmission and the pole...

If your description is correct 'negligent' driving would be the more likley charge than 'dangerous/reckless' driving.

[TUFFIE]

"Geez, it must be an absolute torque monster!!!! Ha Ha

Not being critical, but it looks like he just f#%ked up. Can't blame the transmission, it's driver error."

Sorry to hear that he wrote the car off BUT ????? :rofl:

[Speedy Gonzales]

Chalk it up as a learning experience, if hes a P plater, he shoudnt even be anywhere near an LSx car period. Couldnt handle the power or the car, and doesnt have enough experience behind the wheel of said vehicle, and didnt give it the respect it truly deserved.

This coming from countless number of customer cars and forum members cars Ive driven, some with massive amounts of power.

Its not too bad, its only a 2 door Commodore :p

Could be worse, could have written off a brand new Z06, but unfortunately, someone in the states has done that.

[Tyre biter]

Wonky: "Our family is one of those who understand how difficult a job policing is and respects them" - Do you? My feeble opinion is that your other comments betray this sentiment?

Intentional or otherwise, and let's accept it as a given that he was not hooning, he did loose control of a vehicle in what you described as ordinary driving. The result of this was that he had a prang. Yes, the good news is there is only damage to property but riddle me this, what if someone had been hurt, run down, etc.

Clearly and simply, something went wrong in his assessment of what was needed to properly and safely negotiate the corner. The bigger issue I feel is that he and others need to stop looking at the car as the instrument of blame and apply some lessons to the driver. It was after all his assessment, driving inputs, decisions and errors towards the same that brought about the loss of control. If one doesn't take stock of this, then a lesson will never be learnt and as history tells us, can only be repeated.

Again, merely my opinion, but hey, that is what forums are for hey?

I agree with the other posts too, the report is in (just perhaps not any indication of prosecution or otherwise at this time), it's up to the Insurance company to do the chasing and they are probably waiting to learn the outcome regarding prosecution.

Good luck with it.

Cheers, Craig

[LS1WB]

Wonky, sorry to hear about the accident, good to hear both are safe.

I hope this all works out well, as I have been down the same path here in NSW. The insurance bean counters will look for any angle to get out of it. Yes its a safe car for them to drive when they take your insurance premiuns but all of a sudden it gets dangerous when they need to pay up.

As for the respect of poilce, some have tried to bag'm and some have tried to support them. At the end of the day they deserve the respect they earn, give each one the time to show his/her true colours then give them the repect if earnt. I have got some good mates that are coppers and while they seem to do the right thing to the pretty little blonde with the lumps and bumps in the right spots they also are the first to turn on the lights and serien if running late to finish and shift.

As for the too much power, what a load of crap, he mange to drive it safely every other time and you must have trusted him to allow your daughter in the car, this shows the respect you have for him and his driving. He could have been in a 2 litre mike cartoon with a hair dyer hanging of it producing more power what then. Give him back his malven star and tell him to ring the bell before each corner.

i hope it ll works out well, good luck.

[FatBoy]

A lot or people here seem to ride pretty high horses sheesh...

The kid fcuked up, made and error and luckily it didn't cost him or Wonky's daughter some serious injuries or possibly even their lives. The fact they were unhurt seems to indicate he obviously wasn't travelling "that" fast...

In my experience about 80% of coppers are really good blokes, 10% are arseholes and the rest are Highway Patrol. You know, the blokes who have all had charisma bypasses and even their own kids don't talk to them... :D

Sounds like the cop is being a bit of a knob, but in saying that none of us know what really happened without being there. The cop might have some legitimate concerns or he might just figure all young blokes are hoons - and you can't blame him for thinking that way given how many d!ckhead P platers we see on a regular basis...

Good luck with it Wonky, i can see a neg driving fine and 30k coming the way of your daughters boyfriend...

[jerrel]

80% of coppers are really good blokes, 10% are arseholes and the rest are Highway Patrol

lol i never knew those highway patrols had their own category. so far i have only had 1 half decent copper encouter in my life....the other 5 or so were pr!cks

[Toddler78]

I had a simular experience about two years ago, lost control of my car, hit 7 trees and derooted them, estimated impact speed of 80-100km in an 80 zone, basically I Fcuked up,
the cop gave me a hard time to begin with claiming I was hooning, after I challenged his assumption with hard evidence of the road conditions and the dinamics of how a car reacts in a slide, he shut up and turned out to be not a bad bloke.
Insurance took just over 3 months to pay me out, they claimed that they were waiting on the police report as well which had be already submitted to them, they then claimed it was not filled out correctly and was apparently waiting on another report as they could not access the report due to the privacy act, I then rang the accident section of the police and explained what was going on, I was only after a general procedure, they helped me out they then asked for my first and surname and proceded to pull up the police report on the computer over the phone, It did not have to prove I was who I was claiming to be nore did I need my incident report number, They told me that it had been filled out correctly and explained where the insurance company was trying to find fault and had also told me that a memo had been sent out to every insurer in Aus explaining the SOP of every police force in every state(it is the same SOP all round), they then told me to call up the insurance and speak to their internal grivenes dept and also gave me the number of the insurance ombusman and explained I deffinatly had a case as they were withholding the claim unnessicarily, that afternoon I rang back and spoke to the supervisor and explained my conversations with the police I gave them till close of business that day to come back to me with an answer before I took it further and suprise suprise I had my claim approved within an hour.

So I would suggest like macca suggested get your daughters BF ring your local accident dept make sure it has been filed and then ring the insurance company and get the answers but the secret is to be calm and dont threaten or you wont get no where.
ps sorry about the long post.

[hallyoz]

Wonky,

What was the estimated speed of impact with the pole, and where did the impact occur on the car e.g side, front on? Did he get on the brakes at all?

Hally

[Shmacky]

lol i never knew those highway patrols had their own category. so far i have only had 1 half decent copper encouter in my life....the other 5 or so were pr!cks

Its the kind of job that when you need them they're good - and when you dont want them they're bad. They cant win really.

*

Shmacky

[WhiteLion]

I thought Monaros had traction control!!??
So he was inexperienced in a powerful car, and failed to use driving aids available??
It's a tough lesson!!:teach:

[Crusty]

I thought Monaros had traction control!!??
So he was inexperienced in a powerful car, and failed to use driving aids available??
It's a tough lesson!!:teach:

I was just thinking that myself, I know guys on here take the Trac off but I myself leave it on, I've had my V8 all of 6 months and have no intention of turning off anything that is meant to assist me to avoid putting it into a power pole :)

[Wingnut]

With the risk of being flamed, in my 7 years of experience in attending and dealing with car crash reports, I can honestly say that almost all crashes are influenced by the driver at the time of the accident. A regular driver, driving a vehicle in a normal way should NEVER have to make a report to a police station. 99% of drivers drive according to the speed limits and the prevailing conditions of the road at the time ie slow down if the roads are wet etc. Some accidents are unavoidable due to unexpected events, ie animals, other drivers errors, and mechanical failure etc, but the majority are a result of inexperience or sheer stupidity.

Most youths that have attended the station with their parents ranting about how unfair the police were often change their tune when the truth comes out, as little Johny suddenly confesses that he may have accelerated a little too hard going around the corner, not driving to the road conditions at the time, with traction control off, lost control and that stobie pole just happened to jump out in front of him.

I, and every other police officer would be sceptical to the story that he has given, due to the nature of the accident, as some one else said, how many other cars crashed there that day??? A tricked up trans shouldn't cause you to loose traction if you accelerate properly, if it does, then the car should not be driven on a road, as it doesn't comply with the ADRS, and the insurance company will not normally cover this anyway, as the vehicle is inherently dangerous. The only other factors could be a mechanical failure, which is highly unlikely, or driver error.

Before you all say that I am on my high horse, I feel sorry for the bloke, as I know how hard it is to get started in life, especially paying off an expensive car which has been wrecked, but we must all be thankful that everyone is ok. Without knowing the officer I cant say what sort of a person he is, but cut the man some slack, he's doing his job, and I'm sure your view would be markedly different if a family member of yours was killed as a result of this drivers actions.

I, like everyone else have had some close calls, and a few crashes, and can say without doubt that they were always caused by MY (the drivers) actions. I was just fortunate enough to learn from my mistakes and to modify my driving behaviour accordingly.

As for the time delay, I am sure that Vic is the same as here, and their courts are overloaded with stuff. It isn't unusual for matters to get heard over 6 months down the track (a trial may take place 2 years after the event).

That ends my rant, I'll step off the soap box andf let someone else have a go.

[HRT 8]

Why the cop out for the copper doing his job. (pun intended)

Given the Accident report MUST be compiled on the day, then I wouldnt be surprised to see the insurance company dropping the ball with this claim. THEY have to pay for the privellige to obtain the report, and as we all know, they dont like paying.

In Vic, in circumstances like this, a Careless Driving charge is a monty. Its also not likely to cost you your insurance claim.

I wish I had a dollar for every bingle Ive been to where a young driver involved has told his parents a different version of what actually occured. Im not suggesting this is the case here, but you'd never know.
Id also have to agree with Wingnut. If the car is that dangerous and uncontrollable as to cause something like this, then there is something wrong.

[Crusty]

It never ceases to amaze me the number of people who refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, as mentioned above, unless there is another driver or an animal etc beyond your control then YOU must have screwed up.

[klink]

Its a bit unfortunate what has happened to the lad.

I would be very interested to know the condition of the tyres as to blow a tyre by hitting the medium strip must have taken some force. or was there some debree on the road/medium strip that punctured the tyre causing it to blow.

reading the explanation of what happen. the force of the tyre blowing was what sent the car off in another direction and into the pole wrting the car off.

by shift kit are you saying the edit had the shift points adjusted? if so i would say that it was reving well to drop down hard and start the rear spinning.

as for traction control, doesnt that have a fail safe in it that if you boot it hard enough it will go low traction then traction off until you release the throttle then traction control comes back on. Mine has done this and i asked a hsv mechanic and that is what i go told.

[LSavvy]

The police have put two and two together and come up with five i.e. they seem to think given the car and his age that he must have been hooning when there is no evidence to support that. Hell, even Peter Brock with all his driving skills and experience can lose control on a corner……

Glad to hear all are ok.
Did you give him an earful?
Do you trust his driving with your daughter in the car?
Could have easly been alot worse by the sounds of things.
Are there any witnesses to prove neg driving? if not the cop shoud have one by now or your acco report.
If insurance void, sounds like a $30,000 lesson!!!

[Tyre biter]

... a Careless Driving charge is a monty. Its also not likely to cost you your insurance claim.

I agree, in my experience, a TIN, summons or any prosecution for this type of thing will not ordinarily void one's claim - there is usually required some level of gross negligence which is a big ask to sustain, ie: Exceed PCA, DUI, races, etc are sufficient.

A friend of mine who is an accredited smash repairer with all the big guns repeatedly tells me of wrecks coming in with no tread, steel belts hanging out of tyres, licenses having expired and even expired registrations & TPI, and despite this, the insurance companies pay up without fuss.

Having said this, I would hold concern if the insurer was not one of the more reputable firms with a large, and important public image to uphold and gratify.

IMO probably more likely to result in applications for future policies being denied if anything, but hey, that's just my opinion.

Again, good luck. Craig

[CV8Monaro]

You can bet your left kna@cker the reports would have been filed on the day and the insurance company are just stalling, blaming the police. It is common practice for this as the insurance companies have to pay a fee to get a copy of the accident reports (which are ALL electronic in Victoria now and are available as soon as the reporting officer submits it and it is certified OK for filing by his Sergeant).

Even if a brief is to be compiled against the driver as described earlier it can take up to twelve months before process is issued. The insurance company is your problem here, not the attending officer.

Sounds like driver error and the worst case scenario without witnesses would be a charge of careless driving, which is a relatively minor offence and will not effect the claim unless there are other things that haven't been mentioned e.g. modifications not reported to the insurance company.

[gasguz]

you dont get the car to step out & hit a pole to be at the stage of being written off without using way to much of the right hoof. Was the traction control switched on?? this should have helped a bit if it was, if the TC was turned off why was it when he did not know how to control the car???

I also would not be letting any of my kids back in the car with this driver.

PS - glad to hear everyone was OK though

[Wonky]

It appears the subject of this thread needs to be reworded as it would seem the accident report should have well and truly be done.

Thank you to those people who have offered helpful suggestions and comments. We have a few things to chase up now as it sounds like even though RACV is blaming the police, they may be actually the ones stalling. Will check that they aren’t doing that as was the case with Toddler78 and his insurance company. Having said that, I suspect that even though RACV apparently say they are waiting for the accident report they probably mean they are waiting on a decision from the police on whether they are going to charge my daughter’s boyfriend with reckless or dangerous driving. If reckless driving, which is all it should be, then hopefully they will then pay up immediately.

To clarify a couple of points – all modifications to the car were noted on his policy, so no problems from that point of view. He had previously had over three years experience driving, no claims and was off his P-plates.

Most importantly, my explanation of what happened was purely for purposes of demonstrating that he was not hooning or driving dangerously. He was devastated with what transpired and claimed full responsibility for the accident. He is not trying to shirk that as some people here seem to be insinuating. I totally believe his explanation of what happened knowing the car and intersection (as explained shortly) and my daughter confirmed it. I know some poor people don’t have faith in their kids’ honesty but in 20+ years we have never had any reason to question hers.

I understand exactly how it came to happen as I have had somewhat similar happen to me in my VZ SS. It only had basic mods and an edit and had at least 10rwkw less than the Munro and a standard box, not a shift kitted one. I suspect that some of the people who can’t understand how it happened (eg. comments such as ‘torque monsters’???) have never driven an edited automatic with increased shift pressures, let alone one that on top of that had also been shift kitted (as the previous owner had done).

Even in a straight line (with only 220rwkw) mine would often step out on the change into second at 90% throttle or more. Making right hand turns in particular across an intersection when only accelerating at only ½ throttle or so from a standstill was enough to often cause mine to start to step out big time on the change to second because of the shift pressure. In my case it was always caught by the traction control which I leave on as a safety measure due to being disabled.

How many times have I read people on here say they see t/c as :limpy: and the first thing they do when they get in is turn it off? That attitude of course rubs off on many less experienced drivers who also want to be ‘real’ drivers and unfortunately find out the hard way that t/c can actually help them. I suspect that my daughter’s boyfriend had turned t/c off because that’s what “real men” do, without understanding the potential for disaster given the combination of power and relative inexperience. I haven’t bothered to ask him as he is already very down on himself for what happened and doesn’t need that on top of everything else. He already knows he made a mistake………

With the combination of edit and shift kitted auto, the changes in his car were extremely firm (harsh even) and I also know the intersection at which it happened very well because it is not far from us. Given the dip on the other side of the intersection and with no right turn filter I understand why he accelerated more than he had before on a turn to get across in case a car appeared out of the dip speeding to get through the lights. As I said, I know from my car (which didn’t have quite as much power as his and was not shift kitted) what can happen on the change to 2nd if you are turning at the same time. Bottom line, I totally believe what he and my daughter said about what happened. I have only known him for a bit over a year but believe him and certainly believe my daughter. I know there are cynics out there who don’t trust their own kids, but if you are one that’s your problem………

Let me reiterate that he accepts full responsibility for what happened and is not in any way trying to avoid blame. We also subsequently found another factor which I am sure played a part and tallies with some of the comments in the SS/SSV tyres thread. It turns out the car only had cheap tyres on it as that was what the guy selling it had put on it. They had plenty of tread but being cheap and nasties they obviously let go pretty quickly when under pressure – another unfortunately hard learned lesson. In summary, I believe 100% their version of what happened and he is not shirking responsibility for the accident.

I will let people know if it is RACV screwing him around or whether it is due to the attending officer’s delay in deciding whether to charge him with reckless driving or dangerous driving.

Someone questioned my statement about respecting the police. Our family has a large proportion of high school teachers (I myself was one before getting into IT many years ago), my wife is a senior teacher and my sister-in-law is a principal. We know what happens in schools these days and can imagine from our experiences all the crap the police have to deal with from the dregs of society, as evidenced only recently by the shocking events in Noble Park – absolutely abysmal! I absolutely don’t envy them their job at all.

[TUFFIE]

"Let me reiterate that he accepts full responsibility for what happened and is not in any way trying to avoid blame. We also subsequently found another factor which I am sure played a part and tallies with some of the comments in the SS/SSV tyres thread. It turns out the car only had cheap tyres on it as that was what the guy selling it had put on it. They had plenty of tread but being cheap and nasties they obviously let go pretty quickly when under pressure – another unfortunately hard learned lesson. In summary, I believe 100% their version of what happened and he is not shirking responsibility for the accident."


He accepts full responsibility......... BUT???:werd:

I don't think its a case of not believing you daughter but I think its about LOOKING at the Evidence and the principles of what caused the accident.... THE RIGHT FOOT.:idea:

[WhiteLion]

Our family has a large proportion of high school teachers (I myself was one before getting into IT many years ago),...............


A teacher eh? I thought there was something wrong...:lmao:

[hell-met]

Quote: "I suspect that some of the people who can’t understand how it happened (eg. comments such as ‘torque monsters’???) have never driven an edited automatic with increased shift pressures, let alone one that on top of that had also been shift kitted" (as the previous owner had done).
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Quote:"Our family has a large proportion of high school teachers (I myself was one before getting into IT many years ago),...............
.
Don't start me on this one MR SKINNER!!:yahoo:

[gasguz]

This is a line from wonkys longwinded explanation - Even in a straight line (with only 220rwkw) mine would often step out on the change into second at 90% throttle or more. :werd:

90% throttle or more is a bit much hoof for someone that is not used to the car & to say that he switched the traction control off because it is seen as limp wristed, what a joke, my SS has around the 240rwkw mark & I can tell you that whenever I have my kids in the car it stays on allways. This does not make me limp wristed, I would think that this makes me not only a responsible parent but driver also. If I want to wrap myself around a pole as your driver did, I would much prefer to do it while I was on my own.

[seldo]

Sorry, Wonky old mate. Take a reality check and remove the rose-coloured glasses for a mo'.
I've been following this with some interest, and whilst it is supposed to be a thread about the police report/insurance payout, your almost fanatical defence of your daughter's boy-friend's driving leaves me somewhat bemused. Whilst we all like to defend our kids and try to believe what they tell us, I'm afraid that the facts simply give lie to the version they are serving up. For the car to break traction in the dry sufficiently to cause the accident as described he must have been giving it heaps! Even though it's shift-kitted etc he had to have been going for it for this to cause the accident as described.....and funnily enough, the cops also agree. Get over it - just be grateful that no-one was hurt and hope that the insurance pays out and trust that he has learned a lesson. If he hasn't, get him out of something as quick as that which requires some driving skill and responsibility, and don't let your daughter go out with him again until he replaces it with a Volvo...:teach:

[mark78]

As long as alcohol or dragging wasn't involved I don't see where the problem is.

If the insurance companies are happy to insure a young bloke in a V8 and charge him 3x as much as someone older, then they better be prepared to have problems like this and pay up when all goes pear shaped.

If there were no witnesses, how can the police really prove dangerous driving anyway . Mistakes happen on the road - the end result may look dangerous, but that's doesn't necessarily mean the driver was driving dangerously. It doesn't take alot to write a car off these days. Benefit of the doubt must be given.

[WhiteLion]

As long as alcohol or dragging wasn't involved I don't see where the problem is.



You're joking, right!!??

[Rotty]

As far as the insurance companies go I couldn't give a hoot if they are impatiently waiting for me to complete a report. My job has NOTHING to do with the insurance companies, they constantly ring trying to get information about crashes which under privacy laws they will NOT be given....they have to pay a fee like anybody else. I imagine it's the same in Vic, here in Qld we must have the opening page of the Crash report entered on QPrime (and don't get me started on that nightmare!) and we have 12 months to commence proceedings. In the lads case I personally would be considering "driving without due care and attention" if it had happened in Qld.

[Dane VN V8]

Don't worry.

NO COMMENT

[mark78]

You're joking, right!!??

Interesting how you decide to edit the rest of my post.

To answer your question, of course I meant it - in context with the other 2 paragraphs.

[WhiteLion]

Interesting how you decide to edit the rest of my post.

To answer your question, of course I meant it - in context with the other 2 paragraphs.

Re-reading your post, I see there was no need to cut any out. I was just trying to cut down on repeated posts.

I think that the outcome of the incident (car written off), is the justification for the charge of dangerous driving. Refer to Rotty's post above.

Steve

[Wonky]

Crunch time just happened….. The case finally got to court, over 8 months after the accident. As I’m sure I originally said, he was very happy to put his hand up for careless driving and wear whatever consequences came of that, but was very worried about being done for dangerous driving, primarily because that would put him about $30K out of pocket with no insurance cover (allowing for what he’d get for the wreck).

He had hired a solicitor and had what seemed very reasonable evidence to try to prove he hadn’t been driving dangerously and in fact it was almost the opposite – it was the first time in the three weeks he had had the car that he had had to put his foot down a bit (previously had a mid 90s 6 cyl Fraud) and wasn’t expecting the car to kick out as it did on the shift into 2nd while turning.

Not to rehash old ground but given my experience with my VZ SS which like his had been tuned, but wasn’t as powerful and wasn’t shift kitted as the previous owner had done with his, I can see exactly how what happened happened as even my SS would kick out on the change to 2nd at anything more than half throttle. Unfortunately he found out the hard way that there is good reason for using traction control on such cars, but like many inexperienced drivers had turned it off. Traction control was what always kept mine from kicking out in a big way and those of you who know me will appreciate why it’s not :limpy: for me to use it.

Anyway, back to the result. Before the case even started the dangerous driving charge was dropped!! :vpo: Why do they even bother scaring the bejeezus out of someone for months with the threat of losing their insurance cover and force them into the cost of solicitors etc if they are only going to drop that charge before they even started?

As I already said, he knew he’d made a mistake and was prepared to wear the consequences of the careless driving charge ($500 and disqualified for one month) but putting someone through 8 months of needless hell thinking he could lose his insurance cover and be so much out of pocket, only to drop that charge just before starting, is a good way to get people very pissed off with the police and the justice system.

Fortunately he’s a decent kid from a good family so hasn’t taken it that way, but many would and only become even more antagonistic towards the police as a result, to the detriment of everybody.

[Funky_Munky]

Anyway, back to the result. Before the case even started the dangerous driving charge was dropped!! :vpo: Why do they even bother scaring the bejeezus out of someone for months with the threat of losing their insurance cover and force them into the cost of solicitors etc if they are only going to drop that charge before they even started?

As I already said, he knew he’d made a mistake and was prepared to wear the consequences of the careless driving charge ($500 and disqualified for one month) but putting someone through 8 months of needless hell thinking he could lose his insurance cover and be so much out of pocket, only to drop that charge just before starting, is a good way to get people very pissed off with the police and the justice system.

Fortunately he’s a decent kid from a good family so hasn’t taken it that way, but many would and only become even more antagonistic towards the police as a result, to the detriment of everybody.

Hey Gary

Glad to hear things worked out for him. Hopefully now he can get the insurance payout and be on his way to a new car. Im sure he will have traction control turned on at all times from now. :p

I agree it was inconsiderate for them to have dropped the dangerous driving in the last second. I have a feeling they were probably hoping he would not get a solicitor or maybe even just cop to the charges.

Anyhow, alls well that ends well. I guess he can take this as a lesson learned.

Cheers

Faraz

[HARMSY]

but putting someone through 8 months of needless hell thinking he could lose his insurance cover and be so much out of pocket, only to drop that charge just before starting, is a good way to get people very pissed off with the police


I agree it was inconsiderate for them to have dropped the dangerous driving in the last second. I have a feeling they were probably hoping he would not get a solicitor or maybe even just cop to the charges.

More typical uneducated comments..............


justice system

That's more like it, people are quick to blame police rather than question the courts......

[Funky_Munky]

More typical uneducated comments..............

That's more like it, people are quick to blame police rather than question the courts......

From what I understand, its up to the police as to what to charge the defendant with. The court has no ruling in the matter.

I never had said that it was the fault of the Police that it had taken 8 months to go to court, just the fact that they decided to drop the dangerous driving charges at the last second. Imagine thinking for 8 months that you could possibly lose your insurance payout for a new vehicle due to trumped up charges. Its safe to say he probably lost a few hours sleep on certain nights.

Im sure you would not like to be in the same position yourself.

[Tyre biter]

My experience is that Police charge with what they think is appropriate, ie: the facts of the matter cover the offence's requisette proofs and cover the defences awarded by statute or case law. It is not my experience that Police charge with an offence to merely scare the punter, and so I think this sentiment is ill placed.

The problem being the the DPP (or equivalent) have a eye on their batting average in terms of what they know they can win, as oposed to having a contest in the Court. Dropping a bigger charge is also a means of leveraging a plea from a defendant to a lesser (back-up) charge.

As for the timing in terms of the late withdrawal of the charge, it is entirely common that charges get dropped on the day because defence council (unlike the DPP) do not have to disclose their case, their intentions nor their representations. Because of this, it is most always a case of who blinks first, remembering the DPP are not always wanting a contest as a result of the requirement to sustain their batting averages.

Whilst I have no idea about this matter, this back ground information might go some way towards explaining why all this occurred?

Cheers,

[Vulture]

Not to rehash old ground but given my experience with my VZ SS which like his had been tuned, but wasn’t as powerful and wasn’t shift kitted as the previous owner had done with his, I can see exactly how what happened happened as even my SS would kick out on the change to 2nd at anything more than half throttle..

Agree 100%. Mine could do the same thing when edited but with high stall is much safer. Even with TC on, wet conditions could easily provoke a slide from the rear on 1-2 change.

[OzExcalibur]

My experience is that Police charge with what they think is appropriate, ie: the facts of the matter cover the offence's requisette proofs and cover the defences awarded by statute or case law.

My experience with the Police is, the "facts" according to the Police, are not nescessarily the "facts" at all.....

[mickeyVX350]

I lost my licence for 2 months for careless driving after having had a low speed accident after an altercation which left me unconcious.

I waited 11 months to go to court, wasted 2,500 in solicitors fees, got a $400 fine as the charges were reduced for guilty plea! I went through 11 months of hell waiting, it took 8 months to get a summons. Luckily I didn't write my car off as I only crumpled the front bar.

I tell you what, mate I was a wound up stress ball for all that time, and I am a person of good reputation, responsible and hard working, all which came up at the contest mention. We settled there and then, with the informant, and the presecution telling me "Sorry mate, if we'd realised we wouldn't have taken it this far" Too late now as now I have a badge on my file forever.

And before we get all of the "Accept the consequences" talk, I always step up.

Sorry to hear Wonky, it COULD have been worse.

[smokiebbear]

Well great news for him i guess. It certainly seems like a lesson learned in the power of a lsx motor. Perhaps he should further his take on being a responsible kid and purchase something with less power for a little while. Either that or take some driver training lessons to learn how to handle a powerful car.

[Wonky]

Thanks Tyre biter for your explanation of the reasons for them probably deciding to drop the dangerous driving charge. Problem for him was that possibility hanging over his head for 8 months i.e. losing insurance cover was very stressful at times as I'm sure we could all imagine with the possibility of losing a substantial sum of money at such a young age.

Thank you also to those who can understand where I was coming from in defending him as I completely believe he and my daughter with their explanation of what happened a) knowing that car and b) knowing my daughter's honesty over her 21+ years. I feel sorry to those of you who for whatever reason have to live their lives believing all kids (and others) cannot be honest when it comes to these situations. As I owned up to earlier, I have 13 years experience (finishing 1989 when I went into private industry) as a high school teacher highly regarded by peers so have plenty of experience in sorting out truth from lies.

In retrospect my choice of title was inappropriate and made it seem like I was picking on the police. That was due to a misapprehensions at our end on how the process worked and for that I apologise, especially to any members of the force on here. From my years of dealing with kids and parents (some off the planets!) I can only imagine how difficult their job can sometimes be and don't envy them at all.

[HARMSY]

I tell you what, mate I was a wound up stress ball for all that time, and I am a person of good reputation, responsible and hard working, all which came up at the contest mention

Maybe if you had of pleaded at the mention hearing rather than stretching the matter out to a contest mention you might have saved yourself some time and agony........

[mickeyVX350]

that wasn't an option, which is why I used a lawyer

[HARMSY]

that wasn't an option, which is why I used a lawyer

Then you made a mistake or your lawyer did, that is the whole point of the mention system......If your matter went to contest mention it is because you put in a plea of not guilty at the mention date.....

[Wonky]

Then you made a mistake or your lawyer did, that is the whole point of the mention system......If your matter went to contest mention it is because you put in a plea of not guilty at the mention date.....
Wazdog, could you please explain the mention/contest process or system? Never having been to court that was all new to me but I didn't really get involved as his parents were looking after that end of things. I wasn't aware such a thing even existed - thought if you had to go to court that was it - you just fronted with or without representation as you chose on the specified day..... :confused:

[HARMSY]

Basically the person receives a summons to appear at court on a specific date, this first date is called a mention, usually it gets ajournd to another date so the matter can be better investigated by the defendants soliciter. At the mention stage the defendant has a chance to plead guilty or not guilty of the charges which have been laid. If a not guilty plea is given the matter goes to the next stage of contest mention were the charges are basically discussed between the defendant/ solicitor and police prosecuter and the try to bargain on the different charges, i.e we will plead guilty to careless driving if you drop the other charges....... If the parties cannot agree then it goes to full contest and it gets decided there.....

If you plead at the earliest possible chance you could get a lesser sentence etc and shorten the time it gets dragged out in the courts...

A very short run down......

[HRT 8]

Basically the person receives a summons to appear at court on a specific date, this first date is called a mention, usually it gets ajournd to another date so the matter can be better investigated by the defendants soliciter. At the mention stage the defendant has a chance to plead guilty or not guilty of the charges which have been laid. If a not guilty plea is given the matter goes to the next stage of contest mention were the charges are basically discussed between the defendant/ solicitor and police prosecuter and the try to bargain on the different charges, i.e we will plead guilty to careless driving if you drop the other charges....... If the parties cannot agree then it goes to full contest and it gets decided there.....

If you plead at the earliest possible chance you could get a lesser sentence etc and shorten the time it gets dragged out in the courts...

A very short run down......

Geez, you sound like a cop Waz.

[ROGUE]

...my daughter’s boyfriend got caught out by the power and shift violence of the Munro he had had for only a couple of weeks. It was his first powerful car (230rwkw) and the auto had been shift kitted by the previous owner.


Geez... never heard that one before. :rofl:

"Sorry officer, it just stepped out on me..."

or

"Sorry officer, i just had a new clutch put in, that's why it took me 35 metres to stop the car fishtailing..."

Wonky, as nice as your daughters boyfriend might seem, please don't be ignorant of the fact the accident only occurred because your daughters boyfriend planted his foot too heavily.

I think he got out of this pretty easily.

[HARMSY]

Geez, you sound like a cop Waz.


It's a secret, if i tell ya i have to kill ya, if i kill ya i get in trouble, so i can't tell ya :):hide::)

[lowriding]

I can't see what how the coppers did any wrong. I think the real villian highlighted here are the bloody insurance co's. How have they been allowed to manipulate the system ,lobby the Govt enough to dictate terms so much? I mean if a person writes their car off due to dangerous driving ,too bad -why should they be allowed to say " nah not covered" :flipoff: They have accepted the premiums from an applicant and they accepted an application based on their questions they should Honour that agreement ! If they get it wrong and decide to insure an idiot thats they're error and his/her insurance record is tarnished from then on.How far do they intend on taking their exclusions ? An accident is exactly that -he accidently hit the pole through stupidity.But they seem to want to apply hindsight and cherry pick claims with fine print is ridiculous .Unbeleivable :soap:

[Wonky]

Yep, ignoring whatever happened I have to agree with you there lowriding! I can certainly appreciate that the insurance companies waive cover if you are driving under the influence but this was the first time I had heard that they would even deem your cover invalid if you were found guilty of dangerous driving.

Yeah, sure, my daughter's boyfriend made a mistake due to his inexperience with such a powerful modified car, especially with T/C switched off. He readily admitted that as soon as it happened, but for him to lose insurance cover for such a mistake would have been ludicrous!

Sheesh, half the things many of the people on here do would be deemed as dangerous driving if they went slightly wrong and resulted in an accident. In fact another young person I know of slid off the road at low speed on a winding road in the hills near here in the wet (approx $3,000 damage which is nothing these days) and was told by the police who attended that she may be charged with dangerous driving - must try to find out what eventuated there but if she was to lose insurance cover from what was just a low speed miscalculation due to inexperience that would be ridiculous!

Guess the one thing that many of us will have learnt from this is that a dangerous driving charge can result in no insurance cover. I have no idea how contestable such a copout from the insurance companies is through the courts - anybody know?

PS Thanks for the explanation wazdog. :)

[Tyre biter]

My experience with the Police is, the "facts" according to the Police, are not nescessarily the "facts" at all.....

Hence the saying there is three sides to every story, and that is (supposedly) why there are Magistrates...

[OzExcalibur]

Hence the saying there is three sides to every story, and that is (supposedly) why there are Magistrates...

Exactly....... and a good lawyer that knows their $hit is money well spent too