What is the diff between a VE R8 and VE GTS

[vyss2004]

What is the diff between a VE R8 and VE GTS, is the Wheels and the supension?

They have same engine?

please explain.

[Wonky]

See http://www.hsv.com.au/index_eseries.asp Pauline. :D Also leather seats in the GTS compared to cloth/mesh in the R8 is another big cost factor.

[BadMac]

Seats
Leather
Suspension (MRC)
Badges
$10k
Name

Have I missed anything?

[planetdavo]

20 inch rims (to 19's), and a higher level climate/entertainment setup on the dash.
The above mentioned HSV website is the best way to sort it out.

[maloo_]

Street cred

[Redline]

Street cred

:lmao: :lmao: nice one

[madone]

Just get one! You won't be sorry.:driving:

[HSVDKB]

and a higher level climate/entertainment setup on the dash.
Can you be more specific. The HSV comparison brochure doesn't seem to list any differences in this area.

[motionSS]

What is the diff between a VE R8 and VE GTS, is the Wheels and the supension?

They have same engine?

please explain.

not enough difference imo. :werd:

[CarlFST60L]

The 19's and suspension, the R8 is a good balance, its silky smooth over bumps, but stiff enough for the track imho

[Dacious]

Holden did apparently try for the LS7 in the GTS which would have pushed price up to the old levels, but as they're labour intensive to build GM owertrain can't even keep up with demand for Z06 Corvettes, so they aren't going in anything else ATM. Why they're looking at a supercharged LS3 for their next hot motor.

[BadMac]

20 inch rims (to 19's), and a higher level climate/entertainment setup on the dash.
The above mentioned HSV website is the best way to sort it out.

The dash, climate, entertainement is exactly the same. They are both based on the Calais spec car (Not Calais V, which is Senator).

[Ghosn]

Street cred

So True :) Bigger WOW factor.

[hdt493]

Street cred

yep, that and about $14k.....
apparently MRC is good too....

[Greg 106]

not enough difference imo. :werd:

I agree 100%. GTS badge has been devalued a bit.

[Ghosn]

I agree 100%. GTS badge has been devalued a bit.

As apposed to paying 100k for previous models and getting far less?

[GameON]

As apposed to paying 100k for previous models and getting far less?

I think everyone agrees that VE GTS = VZ R8 - same as the rest of the E series, they've either intorduced a new model (SS-V) or taken the previous level down a notch.

By VF we'll have a GTS at SS spec for $55k :)

[Brockfan05]

That's good news - I'll be able to afford one then :D

[CarlFST60L]

I think everyone agrees that VE GTS = VZ R8 - same as the rest of the E series, they've either intorduced a new model (SS-V) or taken the previous level down a notch.

I think i know what you mean RE 'bringing them down a notch'? You talking about the price and a couple of options right? like VY SV8 is now like SS... They are just part numbers really, and a hole new setup for a hole new car that makes sense for the E range...

As for the VE GTS = VZ R8, i think anyone with those thoughts best be going for a good drive in a E GTS/R8 (Even a SS/SSV), they are really a totally diffrent car to previous models (and for $1B they bloody well should be!) :driving:

[NickS]

I think everyone agrees that VE GTS = VZ R8 - same as the rest of the E series, they've either intorduced a new model (SS-V) or taken the previous level down a notch.

I don't ... the VE GTS has more power than any GTS before it, has more equipment, bigger brakes, better suspension, bigger wheels, wider tyres ... it is not only miles ahead of a VZ R8, it's miles ahead of any previous GTS.

I think where you are getting confused is that the E Series R8 is in exactly the same boat. The GTS hasn't gone down a notch, the R8 has gone up a notch ... the price just hasn't followed.

[Piffs]

For me the GTS used to be the hero car, with the best of everything. It does have the MRC, the brakes and the rubber, but what i think the GTS should have that it doesnt is a bit more GO to help warrant the price jump, because at the moment i do think alot of the $ is badge. With a few extra ponies (easily achived by a different exhaust) the GTS can be the real hero car and then there will be less quibbling on the price of it.

[Snapper]

Well I’m with Nicks on this one, in the past yep you got more power but not much else. The GTS is a package and for $20K less than the previous GTS. So in April I will be placing my order and if after driving it for a few months I decide I want some more ponies I will visit Sonny and give him some of the $20K I have saved. I imagine he can resolve any shortfalls!

Doesn’t matter which way I look at it still a great car for a great price.

[CarlFST60L]

Slightly off topic, but has anyone done edit + intake mods to a E HSV yet?

[Ghosn]

Well I’m with Nicks on this one, in the past yep you got more power but not much else. The GTS is a package and for $20K less than the previous GTS. So in April I will be placing my order and if after driving it for a few months I decide I want some more ponies I will visit Sonny and give him some of the $20K I have saved. I imagine he can resolve any shortfalls!

Doesn’t matter which way I look at it still a great car for a great price.


And the best part is you can finally put the power to the ground.

[Greeny34]

I don't ... the VE GTS has more power than any GTS before it, has more equipment, bigger brakes, better suspension, bigger wheels, wider tyres ... it is not only miles ahead of a VZ R8, it's miles ahead of any previous GTS.

I think where you are getting confused is that the E Series R8 is in exactly the same boat. The GTS hasn't gone down a notch, the R8 has gone up a notch ... the price just hasn't followed.

Totally agree with this post and that of others.

The GTS is superb and as a whole package is an amazing car to own.:yahoo:

The R8 ... I love these cars too. In the manual version with leather it was a $9000 difference to purchase the manual GTS.

E series HSV's have all stepped up IMO

[Greg 106]

Well I’m with Nicks on this one, in the past yep you got more power but not much else. The GTS is a package and for $20K less than the previous GTS. So in April I will be placing my order and if after driving it for a few months I decide I want some more ponies I will visit Sonny and give him some of the $20K I have saved. I imagine he can resolve any shortfalls!

Doesn’t matter which way I look at it still a great car for a great price.

I agree with everyone that the E series are fine cars, my point earlier was as others have said that a GTS should be a "hero" car. As far as the past GTS models having more power but not much else.....6 piston AP racing brakes, upgraded leather, firmer suspension etc. In terms of devaluing the badge a little, I just don't c how the GTS is an aspirational model now within the HSV model range when a clubby r8 is basically as good. Yes the GTS is 20K cheaper now but that's because it isn't as far removed from the other HSVs as the previous ones were. My opinion only.


As apposed to paying 100k for previous models and getting far less?

I wouldn't say far less. Yes it was slightly less than what you now get now in a GTS, but that is simply due to engineering advancements, increasing production and economies of scale IMO. 5 years ago 300kw, huge brakes etc were a big leap from other HSVs (and all previous aus production cars), hence the price tag and at the time that 100K bought you something far better and more exclusive than the base models. The fact that HSV have only now (with E series) passed the power output of the C4B engine (not saying that the LS2 isn't as quick, just not in terms of kw) and provided an equally powerful braking package shows how far ahead they were at that time. I think the GTS used to be a niche car, now it is more of a volume seller in relative terms...

[macca_779]

You only have to look at how many more GTS's are being sold than the previous models. IMO the GTS has been devalued its just not the premium car it used to be. Sure its still the hero car in the line up. But MRC is all it has performance wise over the other models. I don't accept it as a real GTS even though it is a fantastic car. I just believe a GTS owner should be able to put away Clubbys, those days are gone. I would say realistically HSV should have marketed the R8 as a normal Clubsport as per previous models. And the GTS as the R8. Because in reality thats all it is going off the history of all HSV models previously where the R8 was a Clubby with improved suspension. You don't even get a premium brake package anymore. I rekon save the GTS nameplate for a drive line that is a premium over the other models.

On another note although very minor. How many people realise that Holden and HSV measure power in ECE these days as opposed to DIN. Back a few years ago Holden stuck it into Ford for using the more optimistic ECE measurement. Now they do it themselves. Which also means that a VE power output is not as far away as the old models as most people believe. Its impossible to calculate the difference to work out what todays ECE values relate to in DIN. But rest assured 300kw isn't quite what it used to be.

[Greg 106]

I don't ... the VE GTS has more power than any GTS before it, has more equipment, bigger brakes, better suspension, bigger wheels, wider tyres ... it is not only miles ahead of a VZ R8, it's miles ahead of any previous GTS.

I think where you are getting confused is that the E Series R8 is in exactly the same boat. The GTS hasn't gone down a notch, the R8 has gone up a notch ... the price just hasn't followed.

It may technically have more power (btw macca, i remember reading something where a a rough conversion from ECE to DIN for the GT chnaged it from 290kw to about 282km, does that sound right?) but it has the same power as an R8 now, 5 years ago the Callaway C4B was 300kw (DIN) and clubby's had 255kw. At the same time the clubby's had comparatively tiny brakes where as GTS had AP Racing 362mm/6piston front and 343mm/4 piston rear, all slotted and cross-drilled which is on a par with the current package. Again, the GTS had a firmer and unique suspension set-up (as they do now).

I think it is naive to believe that a new GTS is "miles ahead" of the old GTS's, sure it has MRC but what else? Old GTS could stop as well and get to 100km/h in 5.2 secs.....(GTS coupe did a 1:11.81 lap in motor's BFYB in 2003, anyone have a time for new GTS ??????) No-one is saying the car itself is a downgrade, just the badge isn't what it used to represent. I agree with Macca that GTS should have had a unique driveline, brake package etc. and if HSV couldn't find one for it they should have kept the badge on the shelf for longer instead of devaluing it. Its clever HSV marketing (but frustrating for GTS owners like this one) how they made ppl believe that they can now get into the legend (GTS) for cheaper, however they are really getting not much better than what was on offer 5 years ago.......sure the price has come down but so has the distance between "clubsport R8" (clubsport) and "GTS" (clubsport R8). GTS is no longer as exclusive.....my 2 (more like 6) cents

[macca_779]

100% agree with Greg. And those GT power outputs do ring a bell. I was originally after a VTII GTS when I bought my car. The GTS was at the time too much of a premium for me to warrant the extra money. I still rate them as my all time favorite HSV. Now in my case I made a deal with myself that if I didn't get a GTS I was going to fill the performance void with aftermarket mods. Which I have more than achieved. But when I'm in the market in a few years time. And a VE will probably be the kind of car I go for. I won't even be looking at a GTS. Why.. Because a Senator which will probably be cheaper has identical hardware except for an MRC Track option which by then will tunable in the aftermarket. And a Senator has more toys for me to play with. It was a tuff decision to overlook a GTS this time. Next time I will have no concerns.

[ASSASIN]

I agree the GTS is not what it used to be but i have a biased opion on that my only comment i want to add is that there is only 100 of my GTS how many new ones is there?:driving:

[Senator05]

This comment, like many others made in this thread, is offered with a level of bias attached.......just look at the rides of those commenting.

The way I see it, the GTS has not been devalued at all in its current offering. For the price being asked, it is better value than any GTS before it. What it may have lost is a touch of prestige and exclusivity that has been a hallmark of earlier models wearing the GTS badge. I'm happy to pay less and enjoy driving an exceptional vehicle.

This argument could be summarised as an exercise in semantics.

What irks me is the level of extra equipment available in the Senator for no more money, once you pay $2000 extra for an A6 in the GTS.

If it wasn't for sh!thouse marketing photos of the Senator (thanks HSV) and a extra long wait for Senator, I'd be driving one of those, but I bought the GTS and don't regret it for a second.

[Greg 106]

I agree the GTS is not what it used to be but i have a biased opion on that my only comment i want to add is that there is only 100 of my GTS how many new ones is there?:driving:

Have you got a VY assasin?? Only 452 coupes ever made. fairly exclusive as well and sexy as hell...so I guess i'm a little biased too, but the facts and numbers speak for themselves...new GTS are selling at a one-to-three ratio to R8's I believe, so there'll soon be heaps of "GTS's" on the road.

Macca, If that's roughly right with the GT's ECE to DIN, then u'd expect there to be nothing in it kw-wise between new GTS and C4B engine, may even work out less. obviously ls2 has more torque through the rev range tho.



The way I see it, the GTS has not been devalued at all in its current offering. For the price being asked, it is better value than any GTS before it. What it may have lost is a touch of prestige and exclusivity that has been a hallmark of earlier models wearing the GTS badge. I'm happy to pay less and enjoy driving an exceptional vehicle.



There is definately a little bias attached.... ;)....While the price has come down $20K or so and this obviously represents better value, the reason that the previous models commanded such a premium was because the gear they came with wasn't produced in large volumes due to the exclusivity. Now they are using similar gear but with larger production volumes so of course costs come down. Once again, no problems with the car itself, just the fact that they stuck a GTS badge on it instead of a clubsport R8 one.