HRT and Toll HSV out of 2007 season

[Tyre biter]

I see reports this morning that V8 Supercars Australia have ejected both HRT AND Toll HSV from the 2007 Championship due to the team's non-response to an enquiry by VSCA regarding ownership.

Whilst the Ch.7 report didn't say very much, there is an allegation that both teams are owned by the same person (not stated who but clearly the report infers Walkinshaw) and that both were required to respond to VSCA by Friday past, however have failed to do so.

The report said they have been banned from the 2007 championship as opposed to merely put in a non-point scoring position.

I have looked at both the V8 Supercar and the HRT web site and nothing mentioned there. Whilst I really don't have clue as to the substance of the report, I cannot imagine the action by VSCA is anything more than political grandstanding, and that in the end both teams will be re-instated by Clipsal in a fortnight.

To loose these teams is very damaging to the sport and especially damaging to the image of the sport, coverted so greatly. I hope one of us has some more information to properly depict the action taken by VSCA is merely an action to better leveredge their position is what is clearly an issue regarding ownership. There has been speculation for a while now that messers Skaife and Walkinshaw do not see eye to eye on the business (or much else for that matter), and that Skaife has been (in the main) marginalised regarding the same.

Cheers, Craig

[all4ford]

Fox Sports are reporting it as "nearly" tossed out.

http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21254389-23770,00.html

[Justice R8]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,21250530-5001023,00.html


HRT black flagged
By Ray Kershler

February 20, 2007 12:00

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DRAMATIC talks were underway last night to save the integrity of the V8 Supercar championship after two of the leading teams were thrown out of the series.

The famous Holden Racing Team and reigning champions Toll HSV Dealer – two of the biggest motor racing outfits in the nation – have been banned from the 2007 V8 Supercar championship.

The ban threatens the immediate future of the reigning V8 Supercar champion Rick Kelly and his Toll co-driver Garth Tander.

But even more dramatically, the ban threatens the future of the Holden Racing Team – the most famous team name in the sport.

HRT is also the most successful team in the history of Australian motorsport and has been home to some of the sport's greatest driving names – Peter Brock, Mark Skaife and Craig Lowndes.

Skaife and his co-driver Todd Kelly, who won Bathurst in 2005, were still testing their new Commodore yesterday in Victoria preparation for the coming season.

The ban, less than two weeks before the opening round of the 2007 season, has sent shockwaves through the motorsport industry.

The Touring Car Entrants Group, which licences V8 Supercar race teams, cancelled the licences of both teams over an ownership issue.

At the centre of the ban is the position of the powerful Holden personality Tom Walkinshaw.

Under TEGA rules, no two V8 teams are allowed to be owned by the same person.

For the past 12 months – with evidence of close co-operation between HRT and Toll – TEGA has asked the teams for clarification of their ownership.

When last Friday no such information was forthcoming TEGA, sighting an "unwillingness of both organisations to reveal their ownership structures" revoked their licences.

Officially, HRT is owned by Mark Skaife while the Toll team is owned by the Kellys' father, John Kelly. However, the position of Walkinshaw clouds the ownership issue.

He is a former owner of HRT who returned to the Australian racing scene at the start of the 2006 season ostensibly as general manager of both HRT and Toll.

A controversial driver swap program between HRT and Toll paired the Kelly boys and saw Skaife link with Tander for the last year's Sandown and Bathurst events.

The move was seen as trademark Walkinshaw, the reasoning being no one else in the sport is powerful enough to have been able to extract such co-operation in the often acrimonious world of V8 Supercars.

The move incensed TEGA officials who are headed by the experienced motor racing administrator Kelvin O'Reilly.

Last night O'Reilly initiated a "mediation meeting" with senior Holden executives to try to resolve the matter before the start of the season.



Now thats a big ballsy move. I cant imagine V8SC not backing down. Imagine Holden pulling out od the series. At a guess I would say this will be resolved very soon.

Great way to get some free publicity for the 2007 season. At least I hope thats all it is otherwise it could get ugly. Imagine Holden pulling all their paid drivers from the series.

[Tyre biter]

Thanks for that.

The report from Fox Sports is peddling a very different line than that coming from 'the official broadcaster' this morning. Someone is guilding the lilly and given Fox has provided several quotes from key players, it might suggest that it is Ch. 7 sensationalising the matter - never hurts the ratings!

I wonder if this sort of journalism is what we are to expect from the official broadcaster from now on...

Cheers, Craig

[GTS LSA]

Might be a publicity stunt, with some substance , I cant see the series going forward without its most popular team or the 2006 championship winning team to be honest.........................

Simple answer if they do it ----- I walk away and that wont mean a lot, but it would if 50% of the spectators do the same :idea:

[Veeate]

I would say there is plenty of brinkmanship and politics going on between Walkingshaw (a man who loves a 'fight') and TEGA who don't want to be seen to be bullied by anyone.

Sounds like from the latest reports a meeting late last night between Skaife (HRT owner), John Kelly (HSVDT owner) and TEGA has resolved it. I am sure they all sat round the table and said 'Do we really want to go down this path' before they all kissed and made up.

Lets hope the bullsh*t stays in the boardroom and everyone gets on with the job of racing come Clipsal time.

Talking of Clipsal....only 9 days or so to go. 8 days before i fly to Adelaide and start 5 days of drinking and motor racing. BRING IT ON !!!!!!!!!!!!

[Cosmo Kramer]

I would say there is plenty of brinkmanship and politics going on between Walkingshaw (a man who loves a 'fight') and TEGA who don't want to be seen to be bullied by anyone.



I think you're right. TEGA flexing it's muscles and crapping itself at the same time. It will all be sorted and everyone will be racing at Adelaide. Any other solution would be the nail in the coffin for the series.

[mmciau]

CEO of TEGA being precious - it must be a slow news day - it won't happen - Holden would "kill" the series so fast it just wouldn't matter.

And was this supposed move with the full approval of the TEGA Board when 50% is Holden-based owners!!



Mike

[Ganzer]

Maybe CH7 is trying make big deal out it, only because the v8 are now boardcasted on CH7.

[Justice R8]

Maybe CH7 is trying make big deal out it, only because the v8 are now boardcasted on CH7.


Channel 7 havent got much about it. Very short and sharp on the news. I reckon they would want this settled ASAP after paying big bucks. I am sure they would not want the 2006 winner not in the field for their first broadcast year. I am sure it will be resolved as their is too many $$$ riding on it

[Akazia]

Personally I think if both teams did get a 12months ban, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. It all sounds dodgy anyways, very much double standards, if any other teams did it they would be out on their ear. Remember when Team Dynamic got that massive $100,000 fine I think it was and then relegated to 1 lap down every race for x amount of races, for unapproved testing if I remember correctly?

[OLS108]

i am sure it can be sorted out.
If not looks like i will be finding another motorsport to follow.

[Justice R8]

Personally I think if both teams did get a 12months ban, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. It all sounds dodgy anyways, very much double standards, if any other teams did it they would be out on their ear. Remember when Team Dynamic got that massive $100,000 fine I think it was and then relegated to 1 lap down every race for x amount of races, for unapproved testing if I remember correctly?


Team Dynamic were doing testing outside there alloted test day which is a bit different to who owns a team.

Lets face it Holden and Ford have a hell of a lot of $$$ input into most of the Holden teams I would imagine. Imagine if holden pulled all drivers that are contracted to them. I am sure the Holden drivers would be more inclined follow Holden than to the series, just like thew Ford contacted drivers would be and I would hazzard a guess to say the teams would be too.

[exploder]

This isn't the first time this has been flagged though. The same group got done when Walkinshaw first went bankrupt. TEGA pinged them for control of three teams, which was against the book and then warned Holden that they had to sell HRT and HSVDT (when they bought them to save the teams from bankruptcy, because manufacturer ownership is out as well) and we ended up with the Skaife and Kelly ownership farce which I'm sure not a lot of people believe as being real.

[vxssgurl]

Herald Sun is reporting this as pretty much a storm in a teacup that has now been emptied down the sink...

Just TEGA doing some chest beating by the sounds of it - and making noises that hopefully Holden will listen to about getting rid of TW and his influence.

[SS Enforcer]

I think we are going to find out who really controls the sport.

cheers

[goofafidamedes]

Herald Sun is reporting this as pretty much a storm in a teacup that has now been emptied down the sink...

Just TEGA doing some chest beating by the sounds of it - and making noises that hopefully Holden will listen to about getting rid of TW and his influence.

Why would they want someone who appears to be such a big believer in the V8 Supercar concept on the outside?

What is the big deal with having two separately owned teams sharing information and having one strategic direction? Why can't they be separately owned but have the one "General Manager?"

They are bringing in a salary cap for expenditure for the whole series - who's been making the best use of their testing $$$ if they take the lessons learned and apply them to 4 cars?

(If Ford had've learned from this many years ago, particularly the working together aspect, perhaps they would find their record over the last decade a lot healthier.)

It just seems to me that there is political play going on here, with justifications for actions not exactly clear, if not muddy.


Like vxssgurl & SS Enforcer said, it may be coming down to control of the sport. Chest-beating sounds exactly like it.

[seldo]

I'm sure that TEGA knew all along that it would be instantly resolved but at the start of the season it sends a message to all the other teams that TEGA are not to be trifled with, and makes TEGA CEO Kelvin O'Reilly look pretty tough...

[vxssgurl]

The problem with shared information between two teams competing against each other is maintaining the ever important "arms length" status.

If the other teams PERCEIVE any advantage between these two teams over sharing of information - then why is this information not being shared with ALL the teams, not just the to TW managed teams?

It creates a grey area that should simply not be there.

Innocence or guilt is no concern when the term "parity" gets flung into the ring - and IMO there is already far too much advantage being given away by Holden becuase Ford cannot match them, whether it be drive train, or body issues, or whatever. To now muddy the water further with parity issues over knowledge sharing is beyond good team management - it's all about one man's ego to show who is boss.

Do that too often, and someone is going to take you down a peg, which is exactly what TEGA is doing now.

[seldo]

Bollocks. What about SBR being the only team to manage to reliably get power out of the Ford engines and so it now supplies engines to most of the competitive Ford teams....How is that different?
Why is it any different to a couple of competitors who are good mates sharing some info?
Like him or not, (and for some reason most people don't like someone who has been proven to be smarter than most) Walkinshaw has done an enormous mount for the professionalism of both the Aust Touring car racing scene as well as the road cars. Otherwise we wouldn't have HSV and therefore we also wouldn't have FPV. Brockie had a go and then shot himself in the foot, so TW took over and did it properly. A few others have tried both before and since without significant success - viz CSV, Wayne Gardner, Dick Johnson and a few others.
Problem is - TW is a bit too clever for the blokes at TEGA and so they keep trying to regn him in. I think they'll need to get up in the morning a bit earlier to do that...:)

[EXCESSV]

Bollocks. What about SBR being the only team to manage to reliably get power out of the Ford engines and so it now supplies engines to most of the competitive Ford teams....How is that different?
Why is it any different to a couple of competitors who are good mates sharing some info?
Like him or not, (and for some reason most people don't like someone who has been proven to be smarter than most) Walkinshaw has done an enormous mount for the professionalism of both the Aust Touring car racing scene as well as the road cars. Otherwise we wouldn't have HSV and therefore we also wouldn't have FPV. Brockie had a go and then shot himself in the foot, so TW took over and did it properly. A few others have tried both before and since without significant success - viz CSV, Wayne Gardner, Dick Johnson and a few others.
Problem is - TW is a bit too clever for the blokes at TEGA and so they keep trying to regn him in. I think they'll need to get up in the morning a bit earlier to do that...:)

well said spot on mate. :thumbsup: :werd:

and vxssgurl is on the mark too "too much advantage being given away by Holden becuase Ford cannot match them, whether it be drive train, or body issues, or whatever"
they should just let the VE be raced as a VE and not a VZ with VE panels...
we f***ed up the front spoiler on the Holden coz the aerodynamics of it were better than the ford one and we wouldn want that either. :argue:

dont forget that as much as ford are having a whinge HRT and HSVDT by being treated as one team under a technical alliance give them with 4 cars the same test days as a 2 car team and only 2 cars can be out at any given time....so they dont have the advantage coz they get pulled back on other things..
so the fact they swapped drivers for the enduros is perfectly fine
there are loop holes in the system and TW took advantage of it...he never bent the rules...just read them better than others :teach:

lets bring back the good old ford vs holden....not same chassis, same driveline, same engine, etc with a holden or ford shell thrown over it...
parity sucks...:cussing:

[goofafidamedes]

So basically what TEGA (if i'm not mistaken) is for HRT not to tell anything it knows to HSVDT and vice versa?

Well, following on from what Seldo said, why the hell is anyone allowed to sell engines, chassis', componentry, hell, even cars to another team? What is the frickin' difference?

Tom, going by what is allowed and what is not currently, and what you've been told off for, here is what you could do

- install a figurehead GM for HSVDT
- you be HRT's GM
- setup information/management/component sharing contracts between each team for a nominal fee of $1.
- And when you get served, ask how managerial expertise or information is any different a commodity to whole cars, engines and other components.

Why should HRT/HSVDT pay for their apparent ability to share information and managerial expertise? Usually in the real world you get kudos for that, not thrown out of the competition.

[OLS108]

Bollocks. What about SBR being the only team to manage to reliably get power out of the Ford engines and so it now supplies engines to most of the competitive Ford teams....How is that different?
Why is it any different to a couple of competitors who are good mates sharing some info?
Like him or not, (and for some reason most people don't like someone who has been proven to be smarter than most) Walkinshaw has done an enormous mount for the professionalism of both the Aust Touring car racing scene as well as the road cars. Otherwise we wouldn't have HSV and therefore we also wouldn't have FPV. Brockie had a go and then shot himself in the foot, so TW took over and did it properly. A few others have tried both before and since without significant success - viz CSV, Wayne Gardner, Dick Johnson and a few others.
Problem is - TW is a bit too clever for the blokes at TEGA and so they keep trying to regn him in. I think they'll need to get up in the morning a bit earlier to do that...:)

Well said Seldo :thumbsup:

[Mikhael]

PUBLICTY STUNT !!!!!!! ;)

[Blonk1]

PUBLICTY STUNT !!!!!!! ;)

Yep but ACA will find a few people "in the know" that will be subjected to lie detector tests and claim emphatically that certain people have been flouting the rules for years and that even though the media reacted prematurely (remember florida 1998) all is well in each camp and the series will begin with a new explosive start ...

Lots of people have hard cash tied up in this,

Remember:-

With power comes corruption

With absolute Power, comes absolute corruption......

[Toddler78]

although not exactly the same what about jason bright driving for Cat? last year but owning Briteck racing? wouldnt that fall under the shared interests banner?:werd:

[JT]

although not exactly the same what about jason bright driving for Cat? last year but owning Briteck racing? wouldnt that fall under the shared interests banner?:werd:

maybe thats why Britek weren't allowed any test days last year

[mickeyVX350]

HSV and HDTcan just pull out and go and start a new series like the old Touring cars that don't have control tyres, brakes, aero, engines, and drivers.....

Loosing interest AVESCO!

[seldo]

I think the trigger for this whole fiasco is the stoush between Tony Longhurst and Keiran Wills of Team Dynamik which seems to have arisen after a supposed "sale" of the team's licences to Longhurst.
Today's Courier Mail has a substantial article reporting on their Supreme Court litigation judgement in which the judge threw-out most of their claims and counter-claims which refer to the purported sale by Wills to Longhurst of 2 V8SC licences.
Because of the facts disclosed in this case, I suspect that TEGA decided to look at other recent licence sales and check the paper-work.

" Two of motor racing's biggest names used sham documents to deceive the sport's governing body, a Supreme Court judge found yesterday.

The findings against two-time Bathurst winner Tony Longhurst and former Team Dynamik owner Kieran Wills are in a 20 page judgement handed down in Brisbane yesterday.

The pair had been locked in a Supreme Court battle over the sale of 2 V8 Supercar racing licences.

In his judgement, Justice John Muir questioned the credibility of both men at a 4 day hearing this month.

The court heard that Wills, a successful NZ businessman set up Team Dynamik in January 2002 and it bought a level one licence which entitled it to race in the Australian V8 Supercar Championship.
After rule changes in 2003, TEGA cancelled existing licences and replaced them with two licences.

The Court heard Team Dynamik ran 2 cars in 03 & 04 championships, losing $1.5m each year.

At the end of the 2004 season, Wills approached a broker with the idea of taking on a business partner or selling equity in Team Dynamik.

During 2005, Longhurst was reported to have bought both licences.

The Supreme Court case centered on whether the transactions were sale agreements (as contended by longhurst) or loan transactions (as claimed by Wills).

Justice Muir found the documents for the first sale were shams, not intended to have legal effect and designed so TEGA would not exercise its rights to buy licences offered for sale at the offer price.

He found documents used in the second licence sale were also "shams".

Justice Muir said he did not regard Wills as a credible witness and he had willingly participated in the deception of TEGA.

He said Longhurst's evidence was contradicted in a number of significant respects.

"Like Mr Wills, he was a willing participant in the plan to deceive TEGA."

In his conclusions, Justice Muir said claims by both parties based on "sham documents" were abandoned.

Justice Muir found Longhurst was successful in a counter-claim for commission and established Team Dynamik was responsible for paying a driver's fees.

Finally, he found Team Dynamik was successful in its claim each advance was a secured loan, not a sale.

[GTS LSA]

Justice Muir said he did not regard Wills as a credible witness and he had willingly participated in the deception of TEGA.

He said Longhurst's evidence was contradicted in a number of significant respects.

"Like Mr Wills, he was a willing participant in the plan to deceive TEGA."

In hs conclusions, Justice Muir said claims by both parties based on "sham documents" were abandoned.



I know I am only a trusting country boy............ but I am still amazed at what some people do to make a buck............. when its so much easier to make an honest $ IMHO

[seldo]

Today's Courier Mail has a big article which says that HRT are still not out of the woods in this regard and that they have just been given a 14 day grace period to get their paperwork in order. It also suggests that they may have actually been in breach for several months.
It's not over yet...

THE Holden Racing Team has two weeks to show why it should not be thrown out of the V8 Supercar Championship Series.
A decision to grant HRT a 14-day extension in an ongoing probe into an ownership wrangle means it is clear to take its place on the grid for the season's opening race, the Clipsal 500, in Adelaide this weekend.
But HRT's future is far from secure as it faces a fight for its sheer existence. The team's participation in the 14-round championship remains flimsy given that it is yet to provide the sport's lawmakers with evidence that it has not done anything untoward. The scandal has been hanging over HRT's head for months yet it has not clarified its ownership position to V8 authorities.
The chances of HRT's twin VE Commodores for Mark Skaife and Todd Kelly not appearing on the grid for the second round in Perth from March 23 remain high.
Critics suggest the decision to give HRT, the most successful and highest profile squad in domestic motor racing, more latitude is weak considering the original deadline was set at 5pm yesterday. If HRT is proven to be in breach there is only one penalty which can be meted out and that is termination of their licence. The sport's regulatory body TEGA (Touring Car Entrants Group of Australia) decided to issue HRT with an extension because it and the board of V8 Supercars Australia realise there would be massive commercial implications on the sport if the team is cut from the championship.
Both the Holden Racing Team and the championship-winning Toll/HSV outfit have been under the microscope over the past four months amid questions of the status of their operational, control and ownership arrangements.
Toll/HSV was cleared last week but HRT was ordered to produce more paperwork to prove it had not breached any rules. The dispute is based around the control of the two Holden teams which share resources.
It is believed that Skaife sold off a big slice of the team to Tom Walkinshaw early last year but no disclosure about who owns HRT has been forthcoming to TEGA.
Any ownership change must be disclosed and approved, or otherwise, to TEGA under the Teams Licence Agreement.
It is believed relations between Skaife and Walkinshaw have become strained in the wake of the controversy.
The issue over ownership of HRT and Toll/HSV became complicated when Walkinshaw, the former HRT and HSV owner, returned to the scene last year.

Gordon Lomas - Courier Mail 27 Feb 2007

[Glubbo]

[snip]

THE Holden Racing Team has two weeks to show why it should not be thrown out of the V8 Supercar Championship Series.
[snip]
It is believed that Skaife sold off a big slice of the team to Tom Walkinshaw early last year but no disclosure about who owns HRT has been forthcoming to TEGA.
Any ownership change must be disclosed and approved, or otherwise, to TEGA under the Teams Licence Agreement.
[snip]

Gordon Lomas - Courier Mail 27 Feb 2007

If this is really the case, then I have genuine concern about this. Sure, I cannot imagine the V8s without HRT, but its within TEGA power to remove a team becauser of this, as the article said.

Imagine the thousands of 'casual' HRT fans who won't understand... they may come over to another Holden team, but there may just be a big slice of V8 viewers who won't watch it this year.

Then you could speculate how that would affect Ch.7's ratings, and woah what a can of worms that would be. People might then say that 7 would be lobbying VESA (avesco) to keep them in for the sport's health(/ratings)... It would go on and on...

Already the Ford fans on other forums are getting very aggro about it. :(

[w0lf]

I don't see TEGA ever throwing HRT out of the series. Thats a huge fan base that would be pissed off and may stop watching or going to races. Plus with the amount of money Holden would be putting into advertising etc I'm sure both Channel 7 and V8Supercars would not want to piss them off either. Surely they would give them plenty of time and a fair bit of leniency to fix this up...

[Pickles]

Yeah, rules are rules, I hope that TEGA stick to their guns, & if Walkinshaw has done a "swifty", that he is found out, & punished.
However, I have my doubts, that anything will happen. I reckon the corporate "smoke & mirrors" scenario will win, & the whole issue will gradually fade away.
Cheers, Pickles.

[CV860L]

Yeah, rules are rules, I hope that TEGA stick to their guns, & if Walkinshaw has done a "swifty", that he is found out, & punished.
However, I have my doubts, that anything will happen. I reckon the corporate "smoke & mirrors" scenario will win, & the whole issue will gradually fade away.
Cheers, Pickles.

I agree totally, there will just be more deals done on top of the ones that have already been done and it will disappear.
I bet a smaller one car team wouldn't be getting such a fair go.

[vxssgurl]

This just keeps getting murkier and murkier...

I wonder what on earth posessed Skaife to ALLEGEDLY sell off a portion of the team to Walkinshaw?

That little snippet certainly goes a long way to explaining the control TW has been exerting over the team for the past 12 months or so...

I don't envy the auditors one bit... and I think a full audit is the only way that there can ever be an closure here - for the team, for TEGA, for the fans...

[HSVDKB]

I wonder what on earth posessed Skaife to ALLEGEDLY sell off a portion of the team to Walkinshaw?
Money would seem like a likely reason

[shane W Z]

I am officially confused!! i am certain i read somewhere the other an article quoting skaife as say HE owns the team and employs walkinshaws lot as consultants for the day-to-day running of it so he can concentrate on driving while still owning the team.So as I said i am confused.

[C4B]

AVESCO are hardly likely to shit in their own nest to the extent of ejecting HRT/TOLL.

On the other hand, to prevent a dangerous precedent which other teams could exploit in the future they are obliged to be seen to be doing the right thing.

My prediction is HRT will be found to have "inadvertantly" done the wrong thing, AVESCO will fine them a million dollars, and a warning will be issued to all teams that if anything like this happens again, they will not be so lenient!

[goofafidamedes]

My prediction is HRT will be found to have "inadvertantly" done the wrong thing, AVESCO will fine them a million dollars, and a warning will be issued to all teams that if anything like this happens again, they will not be so lenient!

That could be seen to be $1 million well spent, given the cap this year...

[NODDY347]

Heat on for proof of HRT ownership

Meantime, climate change may be blamed for the scorching temperatures forecast for Adelaide during the V8 Supercar Championship season-opening Clipsal 500 starting tomorrow, but the most heat is undoutedly going to be on the Holden Racing Team.

Overshadowing the Rick Kelly-Craig Lowndes rivalry, HRT is racing under what might be called a stay of execution, because it could be expelled from the series if it cannot produce the required evidence that Mark Skaife is the true owner of the team by 6pm on Monday, March 12.

The Touring Car Entrants Group (TEGA) gave HRT 14 days from 6pm last Monday to provide conclusive paperwork that has not been forthcoming for months, and particularly throughout the heated discussions of the past few days.

TEGA wants to be satisfied that the company Skaife Sports is in true and effective control of HRT.

TEGA's Teams Licence Agreement requires that teams are independently owned and prohibits a situation where there is cross-ownership or control of more than one team.

Any changes in the ownership of a V8 Supercar team, partly or wholly, must be notified to TEGA. One person cannot own or control more than one team.

Holden maintains that Skaife has been the owner of HRT since 2003, but TEGA suspects a "third party" is involved -- and that the third party is Tom Walkinshaw, who operates the Holden Special Vehicles road car business for Holden and re-emerged in Australian motorsport in a big way at the start of 2006 (after keeping his head down for a couple of years following the demise of his Arrows Formula 1 team).

While satisfied about the HSV Dealer Team, owned by John and Margaret Kelly (parents of V8 Supercar stars Rick and Todd), TEGA is believed to have rejected HRT paperwork provided to it so far as lacking detail and substance in terms of Skaife rather than Walkinshaw being the owner.

A story in Brisbane's Courier-Mail newspaper this week said: "It is believed that Skaife sold off a big slice of the team to Tom Walkinshaw early last year but no disclosure about who owns HRT has been forthcoming to TEGA."

TEGA wants proof that there are: "no other unapproved ownership or control issues".

Rivals are fuming, and more so fellow Holden competitors than Ford teams -- particularly over the time the affair has been allowed to drag on, now into the racing season.

One Holden team owner, Garry Rogers, has been particularly vocal -- and has had a second outburst in the News Corporation press. Meanwhile top Holden driver, Greg Murphy, has waded into the public debate, saying HRT should not be allowed to participate in Clipsal.

Rogers, a former TEGA board member, has again called for heavy penalties on HRT.

"I think the dispute has been handled very poorly. HRT has been threatened with a big stick and flogged with a feather," Rogers says in Sydney's Daily Telegraph newspaper.

"There has not been enough discipline applied to the inquiry. I'm not being vindictive. I would have a beer with Mark Skaife tomorrow, but rules are rules. I find it totally wrong they [HRT] have not been punished.

"I'm not saying throw HRT out because the fans want to see them racing, but if you go outside the rules you should face the penalty. You can't have one set of rules for one guy and another for the others. You can't conduct business that way.

"There are commercial interests to protect. If some teams have an advantage that affects how we compete in the market, and if we can't compete, what's the point of being in it?

"It's a bit like letting one football team have four times the possession of the other.

"There has been a problem ever since Tom Walkinshaw's overseas business (Arrows F1) bit the dust.

"In the Teams Licence Agreement there is a list of things you can and can't do. If you go outside those rules you commit a material breach. And there are some pretty severe punishments for breaching those."

Meanwhile, four-time Bathurst-winning driver Murphy, now with Tasman Motorsport, says HRT should not be allowed to race in Adelaide because it could get results for which it may not be eligible or may affect the results of other competitors.

Murphy says HRT should not have been given extensions of deadlines as it has. Instead, it should have suffered for not providing sufficient evidence on time, he says.

TEGA is mindful that HRT is Holden's official factory team and that any decision on it could have massive repercussions within the sport.

But TEGA's Kelvin O'Reilly says: "The team will only be permitted to compete beyond Adelaide if Skaife Sports can satisfy TEGA that the contractual and financial arrangements are such that Mark Skaife is in true and effective control of the team."

D-day is looming!

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car-review/2396348.aspx

[VZ HSV #1]

If HRT are banned, then theyt will loose me


I speak for all HRT Fans

Scotty

[seldo]

Whilst I think it would be disastrous for the sport if HRT got the boot, as Garry Rogers has expressed - they can't have rules for some and not for others. And HRT cannot appear to be above the rules - where do you draw the line? They certainly need to get their act together and fix the problem, but I suspect they might be finding it hard to wind the clock back and produce circumstances or paperwork that does/did not exist....
The real problem that TEGA face is that they must enforce the rules, but they also can see the consequences of so doing. I don't know what options TEGA has in the penalty-book, but if they do eject HRT it will absolutely huge ramifications for the whole V8SC circus, especially when you consider their contractural arrangements with Ch7, with sponsors, with circuit promotors, and it's almost like taking one fighter out of a boxing match - there's not much left except the Ford show, and who wants to watch that..?

[NickS]

This may have been covered already, I'm not sure ...

They say that the HSV team has been cleared, but HRT is still under investigation. As the issue at hand involves both teams how can they clear one without clearing the other ??? Surely to clear HSV they have been convinced that Walkinshaw has no involvement, if this correct, why would it matter if he has an ownership interest in HRT.

I'm confused ... :confused:

[csv rulz]

This may have been covered already, I'm not sure ...

They say that the HSV team has been cleared, but HRT is still under investigation. As the issue at hand involves both teams how can they clear one without clearing the other ??? Surely to clear HSV they have been convinced that Walkinshaw has no involvement, if this correct, why would it matter if he has an ownership interest in HRT.

I'm confused ... :confused:

Very good point. You have just confused the hell out of me.

[mickeyVX350]

I am with you Nick.. he "COULD" own one team, and where is the problem? Is it simply the paperwork?

[EXCESSV]

This may have been covered already, I'm not sure ...

They say that the HSV team has been cleared, but HRT is still under investigation. As the issue at hand involves both teams how can they clear one without clearing the other ??? Surely to clear HSV they have been convinced that Walkinshaw has no involvement, if this correct, why would it matter if he has an ownership interest in HRT.

I'm confused ... :confused:

yeah me too....
so HSV is clear so the issue with a person/(s) owning more than one team is not a issue.
what is still on the table is that walkinshaw could have bought into HRT from skaife and TEGA wasnt notified that it was part owned which is perfectly legal but TEGA must know about it

[goofafidamedes]

yeah me too....
so HSV is clear so the issue with a person/(s) owning more than one team is not a issue.
what is still on the table is that walkinshaw could have bought into HRT from skaife and TEGA wasnt notified that it was part owned which is perfectly legal but TEGA must know about it

Or maybe TEGA isn't interested in or doesn't want Walkinshaw owning part of HRT?

I may be off the mark here, but one of the other questions I believe TEGA has is whether or not Mark Skaife is in 'effective' control of the team - ie. he owns it (or majority of), and Walkinshaw simply is his GM of Ops, with Skaife's delegated authority to act on his behalf. If this is not the case, then I believe TEGA will have an issue with HRT's ownership/directorship situation.

[seldo]

It would seem that since HSV/Toll have been cleared, the issue in question is no longer one of dual ownership, but must be that Skaife is reputed to have sold a share of HRT back to Uncle Tom without notifying TEGA as required.

[NickS]

That makes sense now ... thanks fellas.

[vxleather]

Or better still Mr Seldo, Tommy has owned both teams and now in the heat of battle has sided with the best of the 2 HSV for winnig last year, and Hrt not doing so well. He declares that he owns HSV and with the Kelly's and play stupid about Hrt, HSV stay HRT leave Tomyy wins eather way!!

Just a thought!!!

Shane

[Glubbo]

My thought on this (HSV cleared but there's still problems), is that if Walkinshaw owns part of HRT, his current involvement in the operation of both Teams might be an issue.

Or not...?

- - - - - - - - - - - - -


If HRT are banned, then theyt will loose me
I speak for all HRT Fans

Scotty


I am a HRT fan too Scotty.
But if our team's been caught out not following the rules we will have to cop that. If it comes to HRT's exclusion, I would follow HSV/Tasman/GRM/SCA/Walden/JDR more than I currently do.

If they get banned, it will because they did wrong. 'My team' doing the wrong thing makes me sad, it dosen't make me angry at the Board.

But as I did say earlier in the thread, a lot of HRT 'casual' fans may not follow the series closely this year, and with what Seldo said a page back in this thread about Ch.7, Sponsors, Promoters, Curcuits... well I'm worried that AFL, Union and League will leave V8s well behind this winter.

Let's just hope HRT can explain...and we'll look back at this as some awesome (if not scary) Pre-Season hype.

[VZ HSV #1]

Yeah well said mate,
I just mad as hell our team is so stupid, i mean does skaife own the team or not, surely it can't be hard to know.
Same time you are right, they know the rules, if they don't race that could very well mean the end of Skaife and co, imagine the $$$$ they would loose, i really don't want to think about that

Scotty
Go Toll/Tasman

[seldo]

I note Ch7 just paid $120m for the broadcast rights....I don't think they'd be too happy if they lost half the main stars ...

[ilovebeer]

Once things become public knowledge {media} they {TEGA} must be seen to be keeping teams honest. AFTER ALL BULLTISH & MONEY MAKE THE WORLD GO AROUND!....imo. Ross.