SAMS PERFORMANCE - 412 results

[bigjoe]

Here is the fruits of years of developing and testing.

Engine 412
Custom Diamond Pistons
Eagle Crank
SOLID Roller - size big
HEADS: E.T HEADS - available from Sam
FUEL: BP ULTIMATE
Comp 10.8:1



I have a graph can someone host send email.

[Vulture]

Pic not working mate.

[bigjoe]

Graph Should be posted by Lunch time today.

Results

HP 650 & 545 FLTB

[HRT Stroker]

maybe you can advise on how's it done and please be very detailed.

Enough shit stirring in here....:teach:

No wonder Sams doesn't post in here very often!!!:(

Try this Bigjoe, straight from the forum help section m8.:idea:

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=34667

Hope this helps,


HRT Stroker


P.S.
Only relevant posts in here from this point forward please! Bigjoe - please do your homework BEFORE posting, whilst the comments deleted above weren't necessary they were on the mark! If you want this thread deleted PM me or one of the other Moderators.

[Plan B]

Hey guys...

Sorry for the delay BJ... I was caught up at work! This thing looks awesome on the engine dyno graph and from what you have told me about the car, Alex should love it! :thumbsup:

http://www.purefect.com.au/textralia/joe1.jpg

[LSX-438]

Nice guys

Is that an iron block? which intake did you use

[Martin_D]

I am looking at my options for a 400+ ci engine as a basis for a big Twin Turbo project and have been currently angling towards a Merlin...however 650hp NA from an LS1 has my attention enough to ask, what sort of difference would dropping the compression to 9.5:1 make to the delivery of the engine, and will the heads in place (ET) be suitable for 20psi+ numbers? Any feedback would be appreciated :)

[bigjoe]

Tuna

Sam would be very Happy to talk about any needs or question that you may have.

[Martin_D]

Excellent will call :)

[bigjoe]

Nice guys

Is that an iron block? which intake did you use


Alloy block with 8 throttle bodies.

[NickS]

Hey guys...

Sorry for the delay BJ... I was caught up at work! This thing looks awesome on the engine dyno graph and from what you have told me about the car, Alex should love it! :thumbsup:

http://www.purefect.com.au/textralia/joe1.jpg

I just know this is going to be taken the wrong way, but I'll ask anyway ... any chance that we could see the chart from say 2000 - 5000 rpm ???

Great numbers there without a doubt, it's just that 5000 - 7000 rpm doesn't really give you much of an idea of what the engine is like in the daily driver zone ... or is this purely a race engine ?

Not trying to stir shit ... honest questions. Also, thread title says 408, first post says 412 ... doesn't really matter, but which is it.

Thanks guys.

:cheers:

[VX SS]

I just know this is going to be taken the wrong way, but I'll ask anyway ... any chance that we could see the chart from say 2000 - 5000 rpm ???

Great numbers there without a doubt, it's just that 5000 - 7000 rpm doesn't really give you much of an idea of what the engine is like in the daily driver zone ... or is this purely a race engine ?

Not trying to stir shit ... honest questions. Also, thread title says 408, first post says 412 ... doesn't really matter, but which is it.

Thanks guys.

:cheers:

The graph not easy to see but the crossover on the curve is were it should be 5250 rpm 550hp/550tq, the tq is pretty flat up to 5250 rpm so I would presume from several prev motors that I have seen it would be making good TQ at 2000 and be pretty flat from 3000 to 5200. If you look close enough the tq curve is pretty stable up to 5250

[Justice R8]

I just know this is going to be taken the wrong way, but I'll ask anyway ... any chance that we could see the chart from say 2000 - 5000 rpm ???

Great numbers there without a doubt, it's just that 5000 - 7000 rpm doesn't really give you much of an idea of what the engine is like in the daily driver zone ... or is this purely a race engine ?

Not trying to stir shit ... honest questions. Also, thread title says 408, first post says 412 ... doesn't really matter, but which is it.

Thanks guys.

:cheers:

Nick

No offence taken. You have raised some great questions that I will do my best to answer. As big Joe said to Martin, the easiest way to get answers is to call Sam and ask so I did.

The engine is actually a 412 cubic inch alloy block. Please excuse Joe on his 4 cubic inch mistake as he was just trying to put up some real info for all to read. Joe actually thought that people might like to see what an engine makes on the engine dyno and then what it makes on the chassis dyno (which I will try and get a copy of the chassis dyno graph and post) and give some definative results of any power loss between the engine dyno and the chassis dyno, instead of just using mystical numbers that get bandied around. He thought this may have been of benefit to the forum, as not a lot of people that build engines or tune cars, have the luxury of their own engine dyno or are willing to pay someone who has. The reason the engine dyno is used, is to make sure that the adjustments that are made to cam timing, runner length, valve springs header size and length etc have gained or lost power/torque on both new builds and already built engines. That is why people bring supercar, sprintcar and speedway engines to be engine dynod at Sams, as they are chasing every single HP and need to be 100% sure that the changes that they make work. We all know that these small changes wouldnt be found on a chassis dyno. Heres a test for all those interested in chassis dyno results. Put 3 different sets of rear tyres on the samer car and look how much the results will vary, softer compound will read less than a normal tyre or a bald tyre. Even changes in tyre pressure will alter the results. Strapping a car to tight changes the circumferance of the tyre which can alter the result as well. The weight of the rim will also be a contributing factor.
Many people use a chassis dyno for everyday tuning and testing the engines they build, which we all know chassis dynos are not the most accurate way of measuring but are ok for getting the tuning right as they bring variables like clutch, convertor and total driveline into the equation, even a binding caliper. An engine dyno is a far greater and more accurate tool for making sure that the engine is making the power it is built for (any engine builder worth their salt should be able to calculate what HP an engine will make well before the first part is ordered).

This car has run a flat 11 sec pass at 127. Sam was happy with the et as it was a full weight daily driver on slicks. What Sam wasnt happy with the MPH as he had calculated that the engine should MPH better than it did. Sam believed that with the size of the cam being used, that the valve springs were not keeping up with the cam. When the engine was removed and put back on the dyno the valve springs were diagnosed as the issue. This was rectified with a modification to the cylinder heads and a different brand and specification spring being used.

The reason that particualar scale was used on the engine dyno was for the following reasons
1. As above Sam believed that the issue was the valve springs and that the issue would only be happening in the top end of the rev range. The engine dyno clearly showed this after a few runs he was seeing them start to fall away
2. Whilst the engine was on there, Sam was looking to move some torque around by adjusting the runner length. Sam tried a number of different runner lengths on this engine in conjunction with adjustments to the cam timing, header size and length, to log what effects it would have to both power and torque levels. He had his theories just like most people on here but was able to actually test these theories and ensure that any changes he made were in the right direction.
3.The customer had driven the car in this format and was more than happy with the power delivery down low, as was Sam, and we all know that its all about what the customer wants not how why and where it makes power on the internet. Therefore there was no need start the run at any lower rev range than what was required for testing and changes that were being made.


For the record it takes a day to setup and remove an engine from the engine dyno. Sam pointed out that he doesnt just put them on there for the wank factor, he does it so he knows that the engine is 100% before the engine goes into the car and can tell the owner what the engine will run with a proper setup and a good driver. If it was just for the wank factor he would just put the engine straight into the car and sit and listen to the radio to make it look like it is taking forever to tune. Once it has been run on the engine dyno Sam know what the car should make. If the car doesnt make the power he knows the engine is ok and looks for other issues within the car. If he didnt engine dyno it he wouldnt know if the engine had a problem or if it was elsewhere. Thats why Craig and Planb ran there current race engine on Sams engine dyno and Sam told them what the car would run on that tune which they are very close to.

This car will be used as a daily driver for the owner who has a construction business. This car will join their other cars being a stroked LS1 ute and stroked and blown statesman.

I havent taken offence Nick otherwise I would have been a smartass and asked you to post up your engine dyno graph to compare knowing full well it hadnt been on an engine dyno. Once again I thank you for your valuable post searching for info that will help the whole LS1 community.


I am looking at my options for a 400+ ci engine as a basis for a big Twin Turbo project and have been currently angling towards a Merlin...however 650hp NA from an LS1 has my attention enough to ask, what sort of difference would dropping the compression to 9.5:1 make to the delivery of the engine, and will the heads in place (ET) be suitable for 20psi+ numbers? Any feedback would be appreciated

Street Tuna
You have also asked some great questions Sam is happy to answer for you.
1. This engine is actually running 10.8 to 1 compression ratio and with a drop in compression to 9.5 to 1 would still be making apporoximately 625fwhp. This is both in theory and actual and would still make plenty of torque to compensate for any lag associated with running huge turbos.
2. Sam has done the calculations and has actually flowed these heads as he also has a flow bench for cylinder head testing and assures me that the heads used would be able to cope with the 20psi from a FI setup. He then was clear to point out that that he has not tested these heads on a 20psi ls1 setup as most of his work is focused on general N/A engines and high HP N/A engines as they are a chellange to chase hp. Sam thought that with all your knowledge on forced induction you may be able to put up some results of the testing you have done on this type of setup, including how the testing was done and the conditions or equipment used in the testing process.

Sam did mention that he has done a forced induction holden iron block with VN heads at 11ps1 boost which made 820fwhp and ran 9.9 at 140mph in a street ute 3800lb on slicks.

NOTE
The posts that were removed were removed by the moderation team and not by anybody else. Sam is happy for those posts to be unhidden as he is happy to have debate. Joe has no issues either as it is no secret Joe and I are big fans of hamburgers and Krispy Kremes.

Martin
The point you raised about Joes car at the Nationals was quite funny, I hate to disappoint you but Joe didnt have an engine problem but had actually clipped the embankment whilst going round the corner and had done some suspension damage. It was a shame that you didnt bother to stop and offer any assistance but elected to just drive by. The issue at Summernats was a broken flex plate which happens, so once again sorry to dissapoint you but once again it wasnt an engine problem. But you would have known that I am sure you were just being funny.

PS
How can I enter the exhibition class at Summernats. Is open to anybody and do you have to run on pump fuel?

Once again thankyou for the valuable questions.

FTR
I find it difficult to post up pics as well. I find it all too time consuming to do the old FTP. I remember (Duncan) Forrested had freehost that you email a pic to and it sent you a link back you could cut and paste and was real easy. just wish it was still there.

[Martin_D]

Stop being a big Sook Darren and learn to have a laugh for once in a while... Bigjoe doesnt need a mum, hes a good fun bloke :)
Keep nice or you will be posting more apology threads and calling people poultry again :lol: :lol: :)

[Justice R8]

Stop being a big Sook Darren and learn to have a laugh for once in a while... Bigjoe doesnt need a mum, hes a good fun bloke :)
Keep nice or you will be posting more apology threads and calling people poultry again :lol: :lol: :)


Except for my motherly loving of big Joe and Krispy Kremes most of it is Sams words and all the technical stuff is genuine and facts direct from Sam just made more G rated for the internet by me. Anyone can feel free to call him tomorrow and ask if that is what he said. I am a nicer person now that I took Nicks PM comments on board.

[Martin_D]

You truly are a trooper Darren, big guy, big heart, and what a rich wonderful place this is for it :)
Now back to the Poultry.....JUST WHO IS WHO? (Id rather be the goose hey Tiger :lol: :lol: :cool:)
http://doughy.theddrzone.com/dpnbj.jpg

Ok back to the engine stuff. Nice work from an alloy....IMO they are the best for big boost numbers. Tested mine on 1.6 bar (24psi on 10.1:1 compression) the other day and it was sweet, so dont be scared to get one of these 412s and blow some wind in it kids :)

[LSX-438]

Darren if you want to host pics, I re-enabled the hosting robot.

Send pics (as attachments) to freehost@photothing.com & you should get a link back in 5 mins or so.

[Justice R8]

You truly are a trooper Darren, big guy, big heart, and what a rich wonderful place this is for it :)
Now back to the Poultry.....JUST WHO IS WHO? (Id rather be the goose hey Tiger :lol: :lol: :cool:)
http://doughy.theddrzone.com/dpnbj.jpg

I Probably should look at removing this as I am trying to keep the thread on track by genuinely answering the genuine questions that are asked. If we all did this, I think we would find that people wouldnt have to go digging in other sponsor threads looking like they are trying to stir trouble when they are asking genuine questions like Nick did in here. If I had asked that same genuine question nick has asked here in any other thread I would have had the cheer squads going off their nuts thinking I was causing trouble like what happened to poor old Mark hsv105 until he blew his stack.

You should probably start another thread for the picture with the heading
You and your mates on a hunting trip. Just Kidding.:love: The stuff about the 9.5 comp and the 20psi on the heads is 100% true and fact. Ask PlanB to check with Sam tomorrow if you have any doubt. I wasnt being smart. Sam did also say that if you start pushing 20ps1 in, there will be a world of other issues more important to look at, than whether the heads will flow it. A head stud change to 1/2 inch studs would be the first things as you already know. Hes always happy to help if he is asked.

[Martin_D]

I asked a serious question you didnt answer it hence I figured you might at least get some jollies out of the pic. I never wanted to know what the heads FLOWED Darren, this is of no consequence to me. Having never seen an ET head my main concern was if they were re-cast or bespoke castings what happened to the structure of the mating surface between head and block hence the reference to boost pressure (the 20psi thing). You dont need to wear a lab-coat to know that even a pair of stock LS1 heads will flow 1000hp worth of air if you poke enough wind through them. Its the design that I wanted more info on as this is fairly critical to the longevity of the engine....for my intended application :teach:

They are good solid results hence the thread caught my eye since I am shopping for a big engine currently :)

[jsttry]

Tuna out of curiousity how long did you run 24psi for and what power did it make? Surprised the TTR pumped out that much air :o

[Plan B]

Thats why Craig and Planb ran there current race engine on Sams engine dyno and Sam told them what the car would run on that tune which they are very close to.



"Close to"? How about spot on! Sam was also spot on with the output of the engine, even before it was assembled! All with a 2 buck calculator and a whole heap of knowledge stored in the back of his head.

Anyone who would knock Sam's ability with engines really doesn't know him!

He is a brilliant man! :)

[bigjoe]

E.T Heads that are in question are gm casting cnc'd with a sh_t load of tender loving care. From talking to Cary at E.T heads there are a few of forum members who have tested and are useing them.

Here is the web site for your info.

http://www.etheads.com/mainpage.htm

ylinder Head: LS1 Application: Street / Race
Port Volume: 230cc Chamber Volume: 64cc
Test Bore: 4.000" Test Pressure: 28.00" Water
Intake Valve: 2.055" Exhaust Valve: 1.570"

Valve Lift Intake Exhaust Valve Lift
.100" 82 58 .100"
.200" 162 115 .200"
.300" 210 154 .300"
.400" 265 187 .400"
.500" 297 209 .500"
.550" 310 214 .550"
.600" 320 222 .600"
.650" 329 227 .650"

[Martin_D]

Thats what I wanted :)

[Justice R8]

You truly are a trooper Darren, big guy, big heart, and what a rich wonderful place this is for it :)
Now back to the Poultry.....JUST WHO IS WHO? (Id rather be the goose hey Tiger :lol: :lol: :cool:)


Ok back to the engine stuff. Nice work from an alloy....IMO they are the best for big boost numbers. Tested mine on 1.6 bar (24psi on 10.1:1 compression) the other day and it was sweet, so dont be scared to get one of these 412s and blow some wind in it kids :)

Sorry missed your edit. So what sort of power did it make on 24 psi. Why would you bother asking if they would take 20psi if you have already done it with your stock heads. Feel free to talk to ET heads directly or to Sam directly as they will be able to answer your technical questions there and then. With such a specific question and engine that would probably be the best way to go. Sam does not want posted the exact ET head he has used in this application. He does have them for sale though.

Your lab coat theory intrigues me though. I have yet to see a dead stock standard ls1 head flow 1000hp. I dont know if there would be a pump that would be able to push the sort of flow needed for a genuine 1000hp through a standard LS1 head. Sams comment was it could in theory, but he is unsure if it would in the real world. He is happy to be corrected though.

[saj]

E.T Heads that are in question are gm casting cnc'd with a sh_t load of tender loving care. From talking to Cary at E.T heads there are a few of forum members who have tested and are useing them.

Here is the web site for your info.

http://www.etheads.com/mainpage.htm

ylinder Head: LS1 Application: Street / Race
Port Volume: 230cc Chamber Volume: 64cc
Test Bore: 4.000" Test Pressure: 28.00" Water
Intake Valve: 2.055" Exhaust Valve: 1.570"

Valve Lift Intake Exhaust Valve Lift
.100" 82 58 .100"
.200" 162 115 .200"
.300" 210 154 .300"
.400" 265 187 .400"
.500" 297 209 .500"
.550" 310 214 .550"
.600" 320 222 .600"
.650" 329 227 .650"



Are yours the cathedral or the ls7 style intake runners and if ls7 style what 8 throttle intake is it
Thanks

[bigjoe]

Standard GM version however sam does have a set of LS7, 245, 215, available.
The manifold was custom made and available thru Sam.

[Animal]

Hi troops,

I have to agree with Darren, a mod needs to reinstate all the posts so all can see. I can see them and believe they are good for a laugh :lmao:

A fair few of us have been with Sam when he uses his $2 calculator to work out some figures. His ability to store the formulas that are required, and recall them as necessary, to calculate expected outcomes is amazing ( and as Pete has mentioned, extremely accurate )

HRT Stroker hit a home truth with his statement about Sam posting on here. It is an unfortunate loss to the LS1 community that Sam rarely posts on here. Many would learn a hell of a lot more from it.

Ken

[bigjoe]

Ken

I Agree.


Excellent will call :)

Tuna


Sam waiting for your call.

[C4B]

It is an unfortunate loss to the LS1 community that Sam rarely posts on here. Many would learn a hell of a lot more from it.

It's a pretty common situation in all walks of life.

Those who really know their stuff, just go about doing what they do best without fanfare...... They don't need a cheer squad to pump up their inflated ego, nor do they need to shout above others to make themselves feel important.

[r8ls1]

Nice numbers there for a pump fuel n/a 408. Imagine what power will get with the new GM 4.250 blocks coming.

[Justice R8]

Ken

I Agree.



Tuna


Sam waiting for your call.

Joe

Lets keep this thread on track.


Darren if you want to host pics, I re-enabled the hosting robot.

Send pics (as attachments) to freehost@photothing.com & you should get a link back in 5 mins or so.

Your a legend Duncun. I would be happy to contribute a fee annually to use this service as it is so simple and I am sure others would too.

thanks

[Delco]

It's a pretty common situation in all walks of life.

Those who really know their stuff, just go about doing what they do best without fanfare...... They don't need a cheer squad to pump up their inflated ego, nor do they need to shout above others to make themselves feel important.

I think its called "small man syndrome "

Good to see some info coming out of Sam's again

Will be interesting to compare the engine to chassis dyno

[Justice R8]

Nice numbers there for a pump fuel n/a 408. Imagine what power will get with the new GM 4.250 blocks coming.

Sam has a number of them on order and as soon as he gets one will start the testing process again, as there will be a number of changes made to ensure what will and wont work with these new blocks. He is already working on some stuff for these new engines based on the dimensions he has.

[bigjoe]

Just spoke to Sam and has finished the chassis dyno and will let Darren post the results, Not to shabby.

[Justice R8]

Just spoke to Sam and has finished the chassis dyno and will let Darren post the results, Not to shabby.

Here is the graph guys. This is taken staight off the engine dyno and put into the car for its first run. Although the engine is always tuned on the engine dyno there is always more work to be done on the tune once it is in the car due to the characteristic difference between an engine dyno and an engine bay. You will note the 2 different graphs. Sam has overlayed the run with the new valve springs vs the old valve springs. You will see that the valve spring problems were different to the problems we all see in standard valve springs on standard engines, where there is usually a dip at around 5200rpm that comes back up at around 5700rpm.

Unlike the standard spring in a standard engine you will also see the green graph just lays over and doesnt come back. If this was an inexperienced engine builder or somebody just screwing bits together, the green graph would be handed to the customer and the customer and engine builder would have been thinking all is ok and the customer would have been on his way. That is where perfection and the knowledge comes in. Sam knew via his calulations that the engine had a problem and should have been making more.

Remember this engine is using the exact same cam for both runs. The only parts changed are valve springs. People like planb, howquick, Big Joe and Delco would all know what a difference a valve spring can make to performance. The headers are the same that were in the car for both runs even though Sam tried some different pipes and steps for his reasearch whilst the engine was on the engine dyno.

Joe the heads you quoted are in stock at Sams but are NOT the heads that have been used on this engine. Same casting though, but I am sure if you ask Cary he will confirm that these are a true custom and not an off the shelf product. Many people mislead the public by saying something they have is a custom they have had made, when in fact it is a run of the mill everyday in stock item they have selected.

http://photothingo.com/users/1046/20070222170828.Alex%202.JPG (http://photothingo.com/users/1046/20070222170828.Alex%202.JPG)

http://photothingo.com/users/1046/20070222170828.Alex%202.JPG

[jsttry]

damn, that's an amazing difference just from springs, well done.

[Delco]

Interesting to see the comparison between engine and chassis dyno
, had a street 427 in a few weeks back that pulled 496rwhp through a turbo 400 and stally , puts everything in perspective.

[Martin_D]

Great work guys :)
We will all look forward to seeing Joes car run 140mph on this combo at the LS1 Drag Nationals :)

[Justice R8]

damn, that's an amazing difference just from springs, well done.


Dont forget there was also changes to cam timing as well as some runner lengths.

[bigjoe]

TUNA A.K.A KEYBOARD WARRIOR

Whats my car have to do with it, It just goes to show that you dont have the intestinal fortitude to congratulate someone who has achieved unparrallel results in the engine building/tunning field. Are you really that upset that Sam cam produce result like that without using a hair dryer.

Are you going to call Sam? or as usual just to scared to talk to someone who has more understanding on engines than you ever will.

Your's Truely

Hamburger Man.

[Martin_D]

I thought it was your car? whose is it? :confused:
So what are you going to run with this 11.9 @ 120 as usual? :lol: :lol:
You idiots couldnt answer questions, hugged each other, like wtf GET ON WITH IT!
Merlin engine it is........you guys sealed the deal.....Im getting something that WORKS! :(
Get the guy in here that knows what he is talking about - the organ grinder....not the silly monkeys! :confused:

[Justice R8]

Great work guys :)
We will all look forward to seeing Joes car run 140mph on this combo at the LS1 Drag Nationals :)

This isnt Joes car. As you would know there is a lot more to running a fast time than just horsepower. If it was just HP every stroker and turbo would be in the 10's when realistically they are doing great to get into the 11's in true road trim. Redvyss (alan) is a great example of a daily driver in the 11's and a credit to the boys at CHS.

BTW even though the owner uses this car as a daily driver, it doesnt mean all of on here would, even though with the 8tb and big cam it has great manners. I know the fuel economy question is coming next, but considering the owners stable of cars, I dont think he will be to bothered about it

[bigjoe]

Yep, at least theres no smoke and mirrors with my results

[Martin_D]

This isnt Joes car. As you would know there is a lot more to running a fast time than just horsepower. If it was just HP every stroker and turbo would be in the 10's when realistically they are doing great to get into the 11's in true road trim. Redvyss (alan) is a great example of a daily driver in the 11's and a credit to the boys at CHS.

BTW even though the owner uses this car as a daily driver, it doesnt mean all of on here would, even though with the 8tb and big cam it has great manners. I know the fuel economy question is coming next, but considering the owners stable of cars, I dont think he will be to bothered about it

Darren I am not really interested. The responses here are not worthy of technical comment, so get someone in here that knows what they are talking about before you go the 'oh suffer me act'. Its just boring. Learn something about cars, answer questions, then run the forum response thing. Until then keep it to hugs and kisses in the workshop.


Yep, at least theres no smoke and mirrors with my results

Yeah....its a bolt on right?
How could someone want to spend $10K plus on a product when no one knows anything about the deal other than a piece of paper? :confused:

[Martin_D]

Mate this is no game.
Good on Sam, and great result! :)
I asked some questions that were outside the square and got branded a troublemaker by the cheersquad that know nothing about cars/engines/brakes whatever because it wasnt on their spec sheet for responses :)

The Intaweb is about the good and the bad, god knows I cop it, and if you dont know your product will work say "Hey Tuna, dont bloody know" rather than "All rally round cos Tunas a prick". Sam might not post, maybe he isnt one of the keyboard generation but APPARENTLY FROM THIS THREAD he has a crew of secretaries grafted to his ear with the phone. I have no beef with any of them. I just wanted an engine.....and they have shown me the right way.....GROW UP :(

[bigjoe]

I thought it was your car? whose is it? :confused:
So what are you going to run with this 11.9 @ 120 as usual? :lol: :lol:
You idiots couldnt answer questions, hugged each other, like wtf GET ON WITH IT!
Merlin engine it is........you guys sealed the deal.....Im getting something that WORKS! :(
Get the guy in here that knows what he is talking about - the organ grinder....not the silly monkeys! :confused:


Mate this is no game.
Good on Sam, and great result! :)
I asked some questions that were outside the square and got branded a troublemaker by the cheersquad that know nothing about cars/engines/brakes whatever because it wasnt on their spec sheet for responses :)

The Intaweb is about the good and the bad, god knows I cop it, and if you dont know your product will work say "Hey Tuna, dont bloody know" rather than "All rally round cos Tunas a prick". Sam might not post, maybe he isnt one of the keyboard generation but APPARENTLY FROM THIS THREAD he has a crew of secretaries grafted to his ear with the phone. I have no beef with any of them. I just wanted an engine.....and they have shown me the right way.....GROW UP :(


Tuna

So why the constant beef with my car mate all we wanted to show was SAMS good work. Maybe we can have a beer at Heathcote and fix all the problems of the world.:serenade:

[bluess57]

Dont forget there was also changes to cam timing as well as some runner lengths.

I'm interested in the valve spring swap. Was it replace old for new ?
or change brand, or singles to doubles ?
Thanks

[Justice R8]

I thought it was your car? whose is it? :confused:
So what are you going to run with this 11.9 @ 120 as usual? :lol: :lol:
You idiots couldnt answer questions, hugged each other, like wtf GET ON WITH IT!
Merlin engine it is........you guys sealed the deal.....Im getting something that WORKS! :(
Get the guy in here that knows what he is talking about - the organ grinder....not the silly monkeys! :confused:


Relax Martin

We are just sharing some of Sams results to the LS1 community. Dont let it bother you. we haven't called up the cheer squads to get on here. I hope the Merlin works out great for you and it makes plenty of power. At no stage have I portrayed myself as an expert in this thread, I have only quoted true facts. Call me the monkey if it makes you feel better. If there are any further questions I am happy to try and answer them or you can call Sam like others do. Sam has never porteyed himself as an engine or tuning god. He just goes about doing his thing, delivering results.

You know he wont come on as he cant stand the rubbish the ends up as some sort of fact on the forum. Thats why his forum has been quiet for some time. I think C4B summed it up in his post. Sam is happy to debate anybody about engines. The only condition to this is they must own and be able to use a micrometer before any debate.

[HRT Stroker]

NOTE
The posts that were removed were removed by the moderation team and not by anybody else. Sam is happy for those posts to be unhidden as he is happy to have debate. Joe has no issues either as it is no secret Joe and I are big fans of hamburgers and Krispy Kremes.



I deleted the posts poking at BigJoe's original post cause it wasn't contributing to the thread. Leave shit in here and this is where it leads to....:idea:



Hi troops,

HRT Stroker hit a home truth with his statement about Sam posting on here. It is an unfortunate loss to the LS1 community that Sam rarely posts on here. Many would learn a hell of a lot more from it.

Ken

I for one miss the flow of useful and interesting threads showing the great results and R and D that Sams Workshop produces, Sam's area in here used to be one of the most active.......good O'l days.:(


Most of the workshops that sponsor here know eachother relatively well, rather than throw stones in eachothers glass houses it would be in the interests of the forum if they took eachother to task OFF the forum and left the sponsors areas for what they are intended, for sponsors to show what they can do directly to those who want to part with their hard earned to go faster...........:driving: :burnout: :burnout: :driving:

If any of the reps for Sams want posts deleted in here please report the posts and we'll see to it.



HRT Stroker

[Martin_D]

Darren, earlier in the day BigJoe gave me the response I wanted with the ET threads link. That was enough for me. Mate, like it or not I was bloody serious.....and for some maybe dumb reason I thought this was Bigjoes combo....(isnt it?) :confused:
I come back here later tonight and its all the normal back slapping shit that fronts the all mouth no trousers. If you want thanks, I will thank your posts, but somehow I thought the 'Alll Motor' guys were a little bit harder than all this. I think thats maybe where you go wrong, level 2 Trade Assistants are trained to use micrometers, when I went to University, we learned how to design them :)

[Justice R8]

Im with you tuna :thumbsup:
POP corn come and get sams popcorn :p :sux:


Sorry

I'll add some more pictures for you so you dont think the thread sucks

Martin
I am not going to put Sams blueprint up of how to build an LS1 for dummies. For those that are looking to go that way they have been and will call Sam or Visit the workshop.


Moderators Please leave this open

[Martin_D]

Martin
I am not going to put Sams blueprint up of how to build an LS1 for dummies.

Maybe you might be able to explain it to his customers on the forum if he did? :)

[Justice R8]

Darren, earlier in the day BigJoe gave me the response I wanted with the ET threads link. Mate, like it or not I was bloody serious.....and for some maybe dumb reason I thought this was Bigjoes combo....(isnt it?) :)

I come back here later tonight and its all the normal back slapping shit that fronts the all mouth no trousers. If you want thanks, I will thank your posts, but somehow I thought the 'Alll Motor' guys were a little bit harder than all this. I think thats maybe where you go wrong, level 2 Trade Assistants are trained to use micrometers, when I went to University, we learned how to design them :)


Martin I dont want thanks as it is none of my work. I am just the messenger. Sam is happy to tell anyone he did not go to university. The stuff he knows isn't just learnt from text books. Thats the problem. Things that should work in theory dont always. Level 2 trade assistants may be trained how to use a micometer, but do they know what to do with the results.

I dont want to turn this into a sledge between you and I as I know that you have a hell of a lot more technical knowledge than myself or the resouses to chase the answers.

Once again good luck with your Merlin. I am sure it will be a great engine like the rest of your stuff.


Maybe you might be able to explain it to his customers on the forum if he did? :)

I dont want to know the ins and outs of my engine. I know enough to do what I want and leave the rest to the experts. I just want the thing to go. I am happy with how mine goes. I think it has only been beaten in one rally out of seven that the car has been entered in. i know they are only Duttons but still some good competition.

[VX SS]

Tuna
I am suprised a man of your experience wouldnt already know the answers to this or know were to get them fairly quickly. It makes me wonder the real reason for the question considering you have your own engine builder.


I am looking at my options for a 400+ ci engine as a basis for a big Twin Turbo project and have been currently angling towards a Merlin...however 650hp NA from an LS1 has my attention enough to ask, what sort of difference would dropping the compression to 9.5:1 make to the delivery of the engine, and will the heads in place (ET) be suitable for 20psi+ numbers? Any feedback would be appreciated :)

[Martin_D]

I think it has only been beaten in one rally out of seven that the car has been entered in. i know they are only Duttons but still some good competition.

Last time I looked EVOs, Skylines, and Porsches won (all?) Duttons :)
Check results for the last few years here - http://www.duttonrally.com/


Tuna
I am suprised a man of your experience wouldnt already know the answers to this or know were to get them fairly quickly. It makes me wonder the real reason for the question considering you have your own engine builder.

I do not have my own engine builder.
Like you Gary I sub the work to the most experienced and trusted. If you have agendas in asking questions on this forum then so be it. This was an honest question due to some glowing results. If this forum is only to be for the back slaps, and not for the questions (please ring for the real answers) then whats the bloody point? Ask, and do it without an agenda...its not that hard....but try getting a straight answer :(

....and like who cares after this mountain of bullshit I will build my own because I can. You ladies are on notice..... :teach:

[bigjoe]

Seems like a Kleenex moment, please Pm your telephone number I'm only to happy to ask question...

[Justice R8]

Last time I looked EVOs, Skylines, and Porsches won (all?) Duttons :)
Check results for the last few years here - http://www.duttonrally.com/



I do not have my own engine builder.
Like you Gary I sub the work to the most experienced and trusted. If you have agendas in asking questions on this forum then so be it. This was an honest question due to some glowing results. If this forum is only to be for the back slaps, and not for the questions (please ring for the real answers) then whats the bloody point? Ask, and do it without an agenda...its not that hard....but try getting a straight answer :(

....and like who cares after this mountain of bullshit I will build my own because I can. You ladies are on notice..... :teach:


Sorry I was comparing apples to apples and meant class wins although I did have an outright win at Queensland raceway in both the sprint and the drags. One of my class wins was against John Bowe(I had a blower, he had a stocker) another win was against Stephen Richards in a Targa Monaro (I had a stroker though) Goes to show HP can beat talent if you have enough HP.


If your looking for backslaps I think you are in the wrong sponsor forum. I think all of your questions have been answered Martin and answered well. Probably a lot more info than pointless backslapping.

[Martin_D]

Seems like a Kleenex moment, please Pm your telephone number I'm only to happy to ask question...

From what I have seen over the past few years bigjoe the only phone number you need is for the NRMA, I know, driving talent, flex plate, not engine :lol:
Anyway, enough tissues, happy to race the pair of you at the Drag Nationals this year. Enough talk, more ACTION! Over and out, now pull up your frocks and really get going :lol: :lol: :lol: :)

[Justice R8]

Last time I looked EVOs, Skylines, and Porsches won (all?) Duttons :)
Check results for the last few years here - http://www.duttonrally.com/



I do not have my own engine builder.
Like you Gary I sub the work to the most experienced and trusted. If you have agendas in asking questions on this forum then so be it. This was an honest question due to some glowing results. If this forum is only to be for the back slaps, and not for the questions (please ring for the real answers) then whats the bloody point? Ask, and do it without an agenda...its not that hard....but try getting a straight answer :(

....and like who cares after this mountain of bullshit I will build my own because I can. You ladies are on notice..... :teach:

I forgot to add Martin that you do not tell everybody who does the pipe work and intercoolers for your turbo system and you shouldnt as it is your intellectual property. The Same applies to Sam. I think there is a hell of a lot more info in this thread than most we see on here but I am probably be bias. Maybe if we put down that the air freshner was changed it may generate more.

[Martin_D]

All I wanted was to buy an engine. Now I know my options. Lets just leave it go at this, and everyone get on with their questions. At least, without any technical input of any kind whatsoever other than a posted dyno sheet from PlanB this thread has enjoyed top billing for a couple of days. For that you guys should be thankful. My questions have been answered the best they can :)

[bigjoe]

From what I have seen over the past few years bigjoe the only phone number you need is for the NRMA, I know, driving talent, flex plate, not engine :lol:
Anyway, enough tissues, happy to race the pair of you at the Drag Nationals this year. Enough talk, more ACTION! :)


:kneel:

You see always with the personal attacks is that the best from Uni student, maybe sum of the observation about yourself are true...... :teach:

[Martin_D]

You guys are a class act, more ppl should be doing this stuff. No, its a good look, really :)
And a TTT for the thread one more time with nothing to see. What a bonus! :lol:

[Justice R8]

I'm interested in the valve spring swap. Was it replace old for new ?
or change brand, or singles to doubles ?
Thanks


Than k the lord for a real question.

It was a totally different spring. The old spring was a commonly used dual spring setup. The new springs whilst still being dual are a different diameter and different tension.

Just thought that some of you may be interested in the final result on the chassis dyno. I also have some video footage the guys took and I will try and post it up.

http://photothingo.com/users/1046/20070223204034.Alex%202.JPG

[HRT Stroker]

I'd like to see the footage and some more detail on the mods, as the original post is light on for specs on cam etc, unless its being kept under wraps?

Sounds like a great combo!

[Beej]

Hey Darren; been following (the sensible parts) if this thread with great interest: so 650fwhp = 540rwhp, interesting! 17% drivetrain losses there. About in line with other results seen in the past (old days) with one of PlanBs engines done at Sams etc if I recall!

PS: Great engine! Sam knows how to build a hipo motor, no question. FYI, a good engine builder should be able to build an N/A race spec engine to achieve 100hp per Litre generally speaking - Sam actually told me this once! :)

Cheers,

Beej

[dadem0n]

Sorry if I missed it... what manifold or TB(s) is this engine running?

[HRT 8]

Sorry if I missed it... what manifold or TB(s) is this engine running?
One of Sams 8 T/B manifolds. There was mention about adjusting the runner length not that far back.

[SS346]

Geez, this motor makes the same if not more power than these turbo motors floating around,

Good work Sam.

Obviously the camshaft/head combination were not hand picked from the Comp Cams catalouge, or the internet.

[Justice R8]

Just thought some of you might like to see some video footage of the ute that this engine has gone into. You will see half way through the video a test drive to make sure all is well.

It great to see such a big cam car be able to just roll your foot off the clutch and idle away. Not bad condsidering the cam is bigger than a 260/260. Its amazing what 8 throttle bodies and a great tuner can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ega1MztCQtM

[MattJ]

Hey Darren; been following (the sensible parts) if this thread with great interest: so 650fwhp = 540rwhp, interesting! 17% drivetrain losses there. About in line with other results seen in the past (old days) with one of PlanBs engines done at Sams etc if I recall!

PS: Great engine! Sam knows how to build a hipo motor, no question. FYI, a good engine builder should be able to build an N/A race spec engine to achieve 100hp per Litre generally speaking - Sam actually told me this once! :)

Cheers,

Beej

Great Results. Drivetrain loss from my experiance is not fixed at a percentage, however it will give a rough guide. We did a 402ci hydraulic cam street engine, tuned it on an engine dyno and plonked it in the car. The 98 octane fed engine made 601hp @ 6400rpm and 553 ft/lb @ 4750 rpm, the car ran (HJ Monaro coupe) 10.6 @ 127 in road trim and it chassis dynoed (with no changes from the eng dyno) 330kw through a 'glide and 4800 rpm stall (no lock up). We did another 406ci hydrualic cammed jobbie streeter that made 368kw at the wheels last week, we got another 402 going in a C5 'vette which should go 600hp (flywheel) and am building a 427 for myself... i love these N/A things. :love:

Well done to Sam and all the boys, 520rwhp+ N/A is inspirational.

Matt.

[MattJ]

Just thought some of you might like to see some video footage of the ute that this engine has gone into. You will see half way through the video a test drive to make sure all is well.

It great to see such a big cam car be able to just roll your foot off the clutch and idle away. Not bad condsidering the cam is bigger than a 260/260. Its amazing what 8 throttle bodies and a great tuner can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ega1MztCQtM

Great Stuff, those 8tb manifolds work a treat!! :idea:

[Animal]

Great results from another one of Sam's personal 8 throttle body setups.

I probably should take the healthy option :lmao: :lmao: he thinks as he orders the large quarter pounder with cheese deal.

One of the your best Darren :p

[Justice R8]

Just thought some of you might like to see some video footage of the ute that this engine has gone into. You will see half way through the video a test drive to make sure all is well.

It great to see such a big cam car be able to just roll your foot off the clutch and idle away. Not bad condsidering the cam is bigger than a 260/260. Its amazing what 8 throttle bodies and a great tuner can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ega1MztCQtM


Youtube Video

Is the sound working.

Had a storm as I loaded it and a blackout and now I cant hear any sound.

Only one response needed

[BLACK 346]

Youtube Video

Is the sound working.

Had a storm as I loaded it and a blackout and now I cant hear any sound.

Only one response needed

Works fine mate :thumbsup:

[Chris5.7ltr]

Yet another well built N/A engine with a personaly enginered 8TB set up (by Sam) and a top class tune to make it a nice package.(once again by Sam)

All a common work day for Sam with many more where that came from.

Nice vid Darren, for some reason I feel like macca's now.:lol:

EDIT-BTW the vid works with sound fine for me.

[cosmo vyss]

Geez, this motor makes the same if not more power than these turbo motors floating around,

Good work Sam.

Obviously the camshaft/head combination were not hand picked from the Comp Cams catalouge, or the internet.

Hey if the information is there and the combinations work, why the hell not use them? Not every combination needs to be a specifically designed thing. Most guys on here that get head/cam packages are daily drivers and not specific track cars.
Didn't you have a turbo motor? I don't see whats wrong with them.

Kudo's to sams for putting together another tough engine. :driving:

JB

[badnews]

Youtube Video

Is the sound working.

Had a storm as I loaded it and a blackout and now I cant hear any sound.

Only one response needed

No it isnt, there seems to be a shit song over the top :thumbsup:

awesome result. part of me wishes i got a stroker instead of turbos, i guess now ill just have to get a stroker with the turbos

[OUTAtheBloo]

Video was nice, could of done without U2 taking over the show. Was really hoping to hear what that engine sounds like on the road.

Nice work though Sam

Dan

[STATIE]

Very nice figures from an NA engine.:drool:

Dare I ask what this thing is worth?

$20K-$30K-$40K-$50K???

Even just a ballpark will do for the bottom end,heads and 8TB's - serious question.

[DaveHAT]

Pissy and probably purile question but do these trumpet setups run some sort of filter arrangements when driven on the street?

Is it individual filters per trumpet or something else? Got any pics?

Some sound of the engine as opposed to U2 would have been cool but impressive numbers none the less.

:thumbsup:

[Dane VN V8]

Top stuff and yeah the song ruined it as I wanted to hear that engine, just at my local macca's too :thumbsup: .

Dane.

[Animal]

Pissy and probably purile question but do these trumpet setups run some sort of filter arrangements when driven on the street?

Is it individual filters per trumpet or something else? Got any pics?

The 8 throttle bodies are run filter free. Some guys risk it, others don't.

A custom BA bonnet with an open vent at the front was fitted to the ute to aid in the air intake for the trumpets.

I left the workshop before it was about to be driven back to Canberra today. I'm sure Alex had a hell of a good time taking it back.



Very nice figures from an NA engine.:drool:

Dare I ask what this thing is worth?

$20K-$30K-$40K-$50K???

Even just a ballpark will do for the bottom end,heads and 8TB's - serious question.

Honestly not sure Statie - will try and get a ballpark figure for you monday

[Chris5.7ltr]

Pissy and probably purile question but do these trumpet setups run some sort of filter arrangements when driven on the street?

Is it individual filters per trumpet or something else? Got any pics?

Some sound of the engine as opposed to U2 would have been cool but impressive numbers none the less.

:thumbsup:

You can get filter socks from Uni Filter that slip straight over the trumpets.

I think a OTR fibreglass set up would work well with one of these.

[Justice R8]

No it isnt, there seems to be a shit song over the top :thumbsup:

awesome result. part of me wishes i got a stroker instead of turbos, i guess now ill just have to get a stroker with the turbos

It doesnt matter. If you had got the stroker you would have been thinking gee I wish I had turbos.

Guys this is not a stroker vs Turbo thread and I hope that I havent made anyone think that it is. Turbos are a great thing and the kit from Martin is great value for money. Like anything it is horses for courses.

The thread was put up as it is an awsome result for a N/A 412 on Pump fuel.

Filters
There is an option of filters on the trumpets. Most people dont want them. Sam is currently working on some different airboxes for different applications.

Guys
Lets all be clear. Engines do blow whether they are dead stock, stroked or forced induction. Thats life. We may not here about them unless they blow in public but it does happen.


Now lets keep this for the 412 we are talking about. I dont want it to drop into a maf vs mafless style debate between strokers, blowers, and turbos. I am happy to field ANY questions, insults or criticism about the 412. lets keep the FI vs anything else in the thousand of threads already out there PLEASE

For the record, I have a Stroker, a Supercharged Stroker and a Twin Turbo Stroker. these engines are all for different purposes as there is not 1 engine that fits all my needs and will never be.

[Justice R8]

Top stuff and yeah the song ruined it as I wanted to hear that engine, just at my local macca's too :thumbsup: .

Dane.

Alright guys, alright guys. I thought I would add some artistic licence to it with a music clip (P.S I do have an apra licence)

I will pull together another clip and host it in a few minutes with NO MUSIC

[Animal]

Thanks for the support Martin :)

Most of use can swing a spanner and unscrew every part of a motor.

Some can even get them back together without having bolts left over.

It still amazes me how guys like yourself and Sam are able to tune the buggers and make them run properly.

[Bomi]

Alright guys, alright guys. I thought I would add some artistic licence to it with a music clip (P.S I do have an apra licence)

I will pull together another clip and host it in a few minutes with NO MUSIC



Darran if you every need help (not that you need it, vid was :thumbsup:) with footage of any of Sams engines or cars or your own Circuit weapon please drop me a PM. I do it for fun and for free :wave:


Mean engine to BTW :thumbsup:


Troy :)

[Martin_D]

Thanks for the support Martin :)

Anytime Ken I just want to see this thing Kick Some Ass! :)
and TTT again :)

[Animal]

The ute has a stack of signwriting over it for his business, I'm sure it will not go unnoticed wherever it goes :)

Hopefully Alex will do it justice and let it have some track time.

He will need some VERY sticky tyres if he does though

[Justice R8]

Some sound of the engine as opposed to U2 would have been cool but impressive numbers none the less.

:thumbsup:

Ask and you will recieve my nanna always said

Here is a video with engine sound only

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x7WCEdK52WI

Moderators. We will ask for any threads we need deleted on monday.

[bluess57]

Is this ute bound for the ACT?
Think a few of us met Alex at a Maccas meet, had a 383 stroker then.

[Chris5.7ltr]

The ute has a stack of signwriting over it for his business, I'm sure it will not go unnoticed wherever it goes :)

Hopefully Alex will do it justice and let it have some track time.

He will need some VERY sticky tyres if he does though

For what business?

Might keep my eyes open for it.

[jsttry]

Looks great guys, well done. Glad to see the 8tb setups still getting around with the trumpets. Remember seeing them everywhere a few years ago but haven't seen anything recently. Still shows they have the goods. It does make it easy when Sam has engine and chassis dyno's all there in the one shop and can put these type of numbers out. Make's customers have a warm feeling

[alexcs]

Nick

No offence taken. You have raised some great questions that I will do my best to answer. As big Joe said to Martin, the easiest way to get answers is to call Sam and ask so I did.

The engine is actually a 412 cubic inch alloy block. Please excuse Joe on his 4 cubic inch mistake as he was just trying to put up some real info for all to read. Joe actually thought that people might like to see what an engine makes on the engine dyno and then what it makes on the chassis dyno (which I will try and get a copy of the chassis dyno graph and post) and give some definative results of any power loss between the engine dyno and the chassis dyno, instead of just using mystical numbers that get bandied around. He thought this may have been of benefit to the forum, as not a lot of people that build engines or tune cars, have the luxury of their own engine dyno or are willing to pay someone who has. The reason the engine dyno is used, is to make sure that the adjustments that are made to cam timing, runner length, valve springs header size and length etc have gained or lost power/torque on both new builds and already built engines. That is why people bring supercar, sprintcar and speedway engines to be engine dynod at Sams, as they are chasing every single HP and need to be 100% sure that the changes that they make work. We all know that these small changes wouldnt be found on a chassis dyno. Heres a test for all those interested in chassis dyno results. Put 3 different sets of rear tyres on the samer car and look how much the results will vary, softer compound will read less than a normal tyre or a bald tyre. Even changes in tyre pressure will alter the results. Strapping a car to tight changes the circumferance of the tyre which can alter the result as well. The weight of the rim will also be a contributing factor.
Many people use a chassis dyno for everyday tuning and testing the engines they build, which we all know chassis dynos are not the most accurate way of measuring but are ok for getting the tuning right as they bring variables like clutch, convertor and total driveline into the equation, even a binding caliper. An engine dyno is a far greater and more accurate tool for making sure that the engine is making the power it is built for (any engine builder worth their salt should be able to calculate what HP an engine will make well before the first part is ordered).

This car has run a flat 11 sec pass at 127. Sam was happy with the et as it was a full weight daily driver on slicks. What Sam wasnt happy with the MPH as he had calculated that the engine should MPH better than it did. Sam believed that with the size of the cam being used, that the valve springs were not keeping up with the cam. When the engine was removed and put back on the dyno the valve springs were diagnosed as the issue. This was rectified with a modification to the cylinder heads and a different brand and specification spring being used.

The reason that particualar scale was used on the engine dyno was for the following reasons
1. As above Sam believed that the issue was the valve springs and that the issue would only be happening in the top end of the rev range. The engine dyno clearly showed this after a few runs he was seeing them start to fall away
2. Whilst the engine was on there, Sam was looking to move some torque around by adjusting the runner length. Sam tried a number of different runner lengths on this engine in conjunction with adjustments to the cam timing, header size and length, to log what effects it would have to both power and torque levels. He had his theories just like most people on here but was able to actually test these theories and ensure that any changes he made were in the right direction.
3.The customer had driven the car in this format and was more than happy with the power delivery down low, as was Sam, and we all know that its all about what the customer wants not how why and where it makes power on the internet. Therefore there was no need start the run at any lower rev range than what was required for testing and changes that were being made.


For the record it takes a day to setup and remove an engine from the engine dyno. Sam pointed out that he doesnt just put them on there for the wank factor, he does it so he knows that the engine is 100% before the engine goes into the car and can tell the owner what the engine will run with a proper setup and a good driver. If it was just for the wank factor he would just put the engine straight into the car and sit and listen to the radio to make it look like it is taking forever to tune. Once it has been run on the engine dyno Sam know what the car should make. If the car doesnt make the power he knows the engine is ok and looks for other issues within the car. If he didnt engine dyno it he wouldnt know if the engine had a problem or if it was elsewhere. Thats why Craig and Planb ran there current race engine on Sams engine dyno and Sam told them what the car would run on that tune which they are very close to.

This car will be used as a daily driver for the owner who has a construction business. This car will join their other cars being a stroked LS1 ute and stroked and blown statesman.

I havent taken offence Nick otherwise I would have been a smartass and asked you to post up your engine dyno graph to compare knowing full well it hadnt been on an engine dyno. Once again I thank you for your valuable post searching for info that will help the whole LS1 community.



Street Tuna
You have also asked some great questions Sam is happy to answer for you.
1. This engine is actually running 10.8 to 1 compression ratio and with a drop in compression to 9.5 to 1 would still be making apporoximately 625fwhp. This is both in theory and actual and would still make plenty of torque to compensate for any lag associated with running huge turbos.
2. Sam has done the calculations and has actually flowed these heads as he also has a flow bench for cylinder head testing and assures me that the heads used would be able to cope with the 20psi from a FI setup. He then was clear to point out that that he has not tested these heads on a 20psi ls1 setup as most of his work is focused on general N/A engines and high HP N/A engines as they are a chellange to chase hp. Sam thought that with all your knowledge on forced induction you may be able to put up some results of the testing you have done on this type of setup, including how the testing was done and the conditions or equipment used in the testing process.

Sam did mention that he has done a forced induction holden iron block with VN heads at 11ps1 boost which made 820fwhp and ran 9.9 at 140mph in a street ute 3800lb on slicks.

NOTE
The posts that were removed were removed by the moderation team and not by anybody else. Sam is happy for those posts to be unhidden as he is happy to have debate. Joe has no issues either as it is no secret Joe and I are big fans of hamburgers and Krispy Kremes.

Martin
The point you raised about Joes car at the Nationals was quite funny, I hate to disappoint you but Joe didnt have an engine problem but had actually clipped the embankment whilst going round the corner and had done some suspension damage. It was a shame that you didnt bother to stop and offer any assistance but elected to just drive by. The issue at Summernats was a broken flex plate which happens, so once again sorry to dissapoint you but once again it wasnt an engine problem. But you would have known that I am sure you were just being funny.

PS
How can I enter the exhibition class at Summernats. Is open to anybody and do you have to run on pump fuel?

Once again thankyou for the valuable questions.

FTR
I find it difficult to post up pics as well. I find it all too time consuming to do the old FTP. I remember (Duncan) Forrested had freehost that you email a pic to and it sent you a link back you could cut and paste and was real easy. just wish it was still there.

there is so much baiting in this post its not funny. well done at trying to appear nonchalant, but your bias is painfully obvious. most people value honesty, respect, and a calm, humble approach rather than a knowall dismissive one. this is the main reason why people are being repelled.

everyone can appreciate there is a massive amount of exp and knowledge, but the presentation can ruin everything. heres hoping you and your benefactor can take this on board rather than dismiss it out of hand.

sincerely,

from an ex sams customer.

[Justice R8]

there is so much baiting in this post its not funny. well done at trying to appear nonchalant, but your bias is painfully obvious. most people value honesty, respect, and a calm, humble approach rather than a knowall dismissive one. this is the main reason why people are being repelled.

everyone can appreciate there is a massive amount of exp and knowledge, but the presentation can ruin everything. heres hoping you and your benefactor can take this on board rather than dismiss it out of hand.

sincerely,

from an ex sams customer.


I guess this is why it is called the internet.

Thanks for your feedback but how do you suggest this was answered. Like other threads that as soon as someone asks a real question they are called a trouble maker or shit stirrer. If I had posted what Nick did in any other thread I would have been shot down for shit stirring. The answers that were given to all the questions posed in this thread were answered with fact not fiction, and without insult. I deliberately put in the thread for the moderators not to delete threads, which HRT Stroker obliged and had asked if we wanted it cleaned up. HRT stroker left the thread alone. Another moderator decided he would delete what he wanted to even after we had requested it be left alone. This thread didnt need to be sheilded by the moderation team as it is all fact. It has the engine dyno graph, and both chassis dyno graphs as well as a fair amount about the engine.

Obviously cant win.

[vytwo]

there is so much baiting in this post its not funny. well done at trying to appear nonchalant, but your bias is painfully obvious. most people value honesty, respect, and a calm, humble approach rather than a knowall dismissive one. this is the main reason why people are being repelled.

everyone can appreciate there is a massive amount of exp and knowledge, but the presentation can ruin everything. heres hoping you and your benefactor can take this on board rather than dismiss it out of hand.

sincerely,

from an ex sams customer.

Really, this thread is full of the usual groupies playing sillybuggers, all Justice did was respond.....as for the bias bit, Sams Performance representative sticking up for the company in his own corner of the net that he pays for ...whats wrong with that?

[Justice R8]

Really, this thread is full of the usual groupies playing sillybuggers, all Justice did was respond.....as for the bias bit, Sams Performance representative sticking up for the company in his own corner of the net that he pays for ...whats wrong with that?

Thanks for your comment. I dont see where I was being bias. As I pointed out I personally have a number of NA and FI engines, each engine has a different application as one size doesnt fit all. Yes I did get annoyed when people ask questions that they already know the answer to stir, but I didnt get them deleted, I didnt close the thread to try and let it die down.

As I said there are some clear and definative answers in this thread which I will try and pull togethher and get the crap out of it and lock it. I think one of the clearest things to come out of it is the comparison between fwhp and rwhp between the engine dyno and chassis dyno instead of just Mythical numbers that float around.



This isnt Joes car. As you would know there is a lot more to running a fast time than just horsepower. If it was just HP every stroker and turbo would be in the 10's when realistically they are doing great to get into the 11's in true road trim. Redvyss (alan) is a great example of a daily driver in the 11's and a credit to the boys at CHS.

Sorry CHS above should have been CHE (castle Hill Exhaust) as someone has rightfully pointed out to me

[Ron]

This is a good way for you Darren or anyone that wants to post up pics instead of using a FTP, the tutorial is step by step and you can do multiple uploads as well .


Cheers,

Ron.


http://tutorials.photobucket.com/tutorial_3.html

This link is how to download images from Photobucket to the forum

http://tutorials.photobucket.com/tutorial_74.html

[Animal]

there is so much baiting in this post its not funny. well done at trying to appear nonchalant, but your bias is painfully obvious. most people value honesty, respect, and a calm, humble approach rather than a knowall dismissive one. this is the main reason why people are being repelled.

everyone can appreciate there is a massive amount of exp and knowledge, but the presentation can ruin everything. heres hoping you and your benefactor can take this on board rather than dismiss it out of hand.

sincerely,

from an ex sams customer.

If this is the only thread you have read that is like this then you need to read a lot more of the posts on this froum, especially the sponsors forums. I am happy to link you to some that are of good value.

And be careful posting that your an ex Sam's customer, some truths hurt more than others.

Then again, maybey you should just stick to posting on other sponsors pages if you have nothing beneficial to say here other than criticise people.

[FatBoy]

Only just read this whole thread now...

What a shame a great informative thread has so many hidden potshots, innuendos and the rest thrown in. It's great to see Sam turning out big power strokers and sharing (through Darren) the results.

It's a shame the class i want to run in has a 6000cc limit, i'd love a bulletproof stroker for circuit work... ;)

Cheers,
Paul...

* Edit * Sh!t, just realised this was a few weeks old - i thought it was only a few days, sorry guys !!