VXR vs VX R8

[csv rulz]

Just seen a VX R8 line up against a new HSV VXR at the lights out the front of my office. Both seemed to be going for it. I dont know wheather it was driver error on the R8's part or the VXR is just that fast, but the VXR put a car length on him.

My gues was the guy in the R8 just dudded the start. Both were going for it as both got a bit of wheelspin it was only small and you could here the R8 pretty clearly, sounded nice.

Has anyone on this forum lined up against a VXR

[phunky_monkey]

I have.

My mate's dad has a VXR and I've got a VX Clubbie with 233rwkw's (2.25inch cat back, tune, K&N panel filter, button clutch and lightened flywheel). We lined up a few weeks ago and I beat him fairly convincingly. It was quick off the line, but the gearing of the clubbie won out, he was changing up and I was still going.

[csv rulz]

It just impressed me with the gap off the line the guy in the VXR managed to pull. I know once they got going the R8 would win but off a standing start the VXR nearly pulled a car length

[555]

I wouldn't read too much into it mate, driver skill is the biggest factor at the end of the day, its impossible to know unless you look at the stats of each car on paper and even then it depends on how well its driven.

[csv rulz]

I wouldn't read too much into it mate, driver skill is the biggest factor at the end of the day, its impossible to know unless you look at the stats of each car on paper and even then it depends on how well its driven.

Thats what i was thinking, its still fun to watch though and pretty interesting at the same time.
My office is on a corner and there is traffic light right out the front so you get to see some pretty interesting stuff happen.

Iv driven one of the first GTO monaros with the 255kw and that was bloody awesome, im pretty keen to take one of these little VXR's for a drive tho, i reckon they would be a fun little car - much like my step dads MINI Cooper S Works

[phunky_monkey]

Yeah, my mate's dad loves it. I want to take it for a spin!

We went to the twisty's as well (on the way to a Hillclimb), and it looked very composed through there as well.

[zorro]

power to weight + driver experience is the key.

drove one of the ford xr5 (focus turbo) on the weekend, surprisingly quick little car and handled awesome. some of the hot hatches from europe are getting quick, little work done to them and they'd fly, still though FWD and big power don't mix.

[phunky_monkey]

Agreed.

There's only so quick they will go before the power is too much. I think they've got there already...

[lowriding]

they look bloody nice . my neighbour has just got a black one , looks awesome and sounds alright too .

[planetdavo]

There's only so quick they will go before the power is too much. I think they've got there already...
Seen how quick a 190kW/380Nm Mazda 3 MPS is...?
Modern cars use plenty of electronic wizardry to get the power to the ground. By the sound of a few responses, a few people haven't driven a VXR either. You will be surprised....

[phunky_monkey]

I have, and yes, it's very impressive indeed. They limit power in the first 3 gears in order to ge the power to the ground...

I haven't driven driven a VXR either, but would like to. From all I've seen on it most reviewers agree it's got a tad too much power as well, but I guess it's all just preference.

The car I had before my clubbie was a Golf VR6, which had around 128kw and 240NM of torque. I felt this was a really nice amount, without electronic wizadry which I'm not a great fan of.

[555]

They are trying to sell VXR astras back home in the UK, but nobodies buying them because despite being quite fast, they are still quite expensive. And thats the exact same reason the Monaro failed in the UK, too :(

[phunky_monkey]

What do they go for over there?

They're about 42k here aren't they?

I've not seen any on the road as yet except for the one mentioned earlier. It's a shame, because it seems like a really nice car.

[xploit]

Just seen a VX R8 line up against a new HSV VXR at the lights out the front of my office. Both seemed to be going for it. I dont know wheather it was driver error on the R8's part or the VXR is just that fast, but the VXR put a car length on him.

My gues was the guy in the R8 just dudded the start. Both were going for it as both got a bit of wheelspin it was only small and you could here the R8 pretty clearly, sounded nice.

Has anyone on this forum lined up against a VXR

I havnt lined up against one, but it IS bloooody fast, i test drove one and being a FF, i was scared.

On my test drive i lined up a vz ss, and he was roaring! and the little VXR made absoloute mince meat of it.

They are a really quick car, and well finished too, the only reason i didnt buy one:

(A) Head hit the roof, with no way to lower the seat.

(B) FF (FWD)

Otherwise id have one in a heart beat, they are such a fun little car i love them to bits.

But that much power in a FWD is %*@%*@ scary, i put my foot down while changing lanes and it was torque steering everywhere, on new tyres and completely dry.

Id hate HATE to try and control one in the wet, they really are a hot hatch.

Cheers,

Bdzy88 :yahoo:

[AFAR]

Beats me how the R8 would have lost. Probably one of those pentioners driving it.
My mate has one. Twice we've raced and twice ive come on top.

They do pretty well upto 90-110km/hr though.

[planetdavo]

Beats me how the R8 would have lost. Probably one of those pentioners driving it.
My mate has one. Twice we've raced and twice ive come on top.

They do pretty well upto 90-110km/hr though.
As mentioned earlier, driver ability has a lot to do with it...
Don't forget they have 177kW in a package weighing hundreds of kg's LESS than a V8 Commodore.

[Swordie]

Stock I would have thought the V8 be quicker. From the reports I have seen the VXR seems to have a bit of torque steer.

[csv rulz]

If the VXR was AWD HSV would be on a winner. When are holden/HSV going to bring out an awd turbo car - something to compete with WRX and EVO. I know i would be very interested in it.

[Mr Moosh]

If the VXR was AWD HSV would be on a winner. When are holden/HSV going to bring out an awd turbo car - something to compete with WRX and EVO. I know i would be very interested in it.

My thoughts exactly! I wish Holden had a small car or a mid sizer to compete with Japans best, that isn't a chics car. Astra and Vectra, and now Epica (even worse) arent very appealing to younger males. Basically if you want a Holden, and want a man's car, theres only commodore variants to choose from. I admit the VXR is pretty awesome, but it is FWD, and the base astras don't appeal as much a base impreza (in my book) which changes the perception of the Astra name. Not saying Astra's aren't good, my mums SRi is a blast to drive, but they are targeted at a different target group than I would prefer.

Cheers

[phunky_monkey]

Stock I would have thought the V8 be quicker. From the reports I have seen the VXR seems to have a bit of torque steer.

Stock for stock I would say it would really be down to the drivers and the launch. They're quick cars for sure


As mentioned earlier, driver ability has a lot to do with it...
Don't forget they have 177kW in a package weighing hundreds of kg's LESS than a V8 Commodore.

People tend to forget this at times.

For some reason friends of mine think that the clubbie would eat my 180sx, but they don't realise that the clubbie has 233rwkw's and the 180 has 241rwkw's... and weighs 450kg's less! It's all about the power to weight

[iamhappy46]

They are trying to sell VXR astras back home in the UK, but nobodies buying them because despite being quite fast, they are still quite expensive. And thats the exact same reason the Monaro failed in the UK, too :(

It is not the purchase price over there but the insurance rating that kills sales. The Monaro insurance cost is 15% of its new car purchase price for most male drivers and the VXR is about 12%.

Would you pay around AUS$7,500 insurance on a brand new Monaro per year?

[GN3GTO]

I knew insurance was expensive in the UK as I have alot of riends who live there and complain about that very same thing but damn $7500 a year - your joking right:confused:?

And is that for mature aged drivers or younger and I'll have to assume full comp for over 25's right?

Thats ridiculous!!

[csv rulz]

My thoughts exactly! I wish Holden had a small car or a mid sizer to compete with Japans best, that isn't a chics car. Astra and Vectra, and now Epica (even worse) arent very appealing to younger males. Basically if you want a Holden, and want a man's car, theres only commodore variants to choose from. I admit the VXR is pretty awesome, but it is FWD, and the base astras don't appeal as much a base impreza (in my book) which changes the perception of the Astra name. Not saying Astra's aren't good, my mums SRi is a blast to drive, but they are targeted at a different target group than I would prefer.

Cheers


They need something thats impreza size with either AWD or RWD, Even if they only put the 3.6L alloytech in it that would still be awesome. 1250kg with 195KW that would be awesome. Holden need something to appeal to younger drivers. I love Holden V8s and one day will own one but i would also like the experiance of owning a hot little sedan that doesnt throw you all over the road everytime you give it a squirt.

[iamhappy46]

I just did one online at Churchill.com out of personal interest and was quoted 3900 pounds for a 6L Monaro or around $10,000, with my relatively good insurance record...

My old flat mate is living over there and he was quoted just under AUS$7500 if he bought the Monaro.

[Swordie]

I would have thought an AWD version of the VXR would be a dud commercially in Australia. Holden wouldn't be able to sell enough. There was the AWD Monaro and it didn't sell many.

[csv rulz]

I would have thought an AWD version of the VXR would be a dud commercially in Australia. Holden wouldn't be able to sell enough. There was the AWD Monaro and it didn't sell many.

But the coupe4 was a big heavy expensive car. Im talking about something to compete directly to subaru, even if its RWD. Something to entice young enthusiests who dont need a big RWD v8

[Mr Moosh]

But the coupe4 was a big heavy expensive car. Im talking about something to compete directly to subaru, even if its RWD. Something to entice young enthusiests who dont need a big RWD v8

Search the GM portfolio and there's nothing... And It seems Holden are more keen on introducing low cost, value for money, Korean pieces of junk. But man I wish Holden would offer something that you're describing :thumbsup:

[phunky_monkey]

I would have thought an AWD version of the VXR would be a dud commercially in Australia. Holden wouldn't be able to sell enough. There was the AWD Monaro and it didn't sell many.

Yeah, but I can see why the Coupe 4 didn't sell many... very cool, but not really in the essence of the Munro in my eyes.

This would be a totally different class of car to that.

[Mr Moosh]

Yeah, but I can see why the Coupe 4 didn't sell many... very cool, but not really in the essence of the Munro in my eyes.

This would be a totally different class of car to that.

....and it was auto only. And it 'only' had 270kw... The Coupe 4 should have been at the top of the HSV tree not only in price but specs. If it had of been released with say 320kw and AWD, it would have sold a lot better. It was basically a normal coupe that cost more, had less power, and a bad box. So being a dealer and presenting that package to buyers wouldn't have gone down well, as thats a pretty big pay off for more grip. Not saying they're a bad car, just on the surface they wouldn't have been as appealing.

[555]

It is not the purchase price over there but the insurance rating that kills sales. The Monaro insurance cost is 15% of its new car purchase price for most male drivers and the VXR is about 12%.

Would you pay around AUS$7,500 insurance on a brand new Monaro per year?

Vauxhall Astra VXR in the UK are going for around 18k GBP which is roughly $45k. I reckon that is a hell of a lot of money for a small car like that even if it is fast
:werd:

Insurance in the UK is expensive yes but its not a like for like comparison. In the UK, we don't have greenslips, so your insurance often includes personal injury insurance, more 'extra' liabilities, and also legal liabilities under a lot of circumstances. However even if you strip out those items, I still think you get a better deal here in Australia. They don't call it 'Rip off britain' for nothing ya know :)

So I think you have a valid point the insurance on those cars would be expensive especially for the target market which is your male 18-25 with often little no claims bonus.

[jamesd]

Stupid crazy torque steer and shitty handling turns me of the VXR. That much power in a FWD car is madness.

[dracer]

VXR = little revving bucket of $hit!
if your a guy and u own one be very very ashamed! very!

:teach:

[xploit]

VXR = little revving bucket of $hit!
if your a guy and u own one be very very ashamed! very!

:teach:

Nar, thats crap!

Have you driven one?

I tell you what, if you havnt it will change your mind completely,

i was in the same stance untill i drove one :shock:

its a really fun little car, but the FF is just absoloute madness...

my old man called it a 'deathtrap' and hes not far off the money...

[CV860L]

I haven't driven one but that much power going through the front wheels equals = torque steer and understeer.
Oversteer = Fun.
And I'm sure you can get some "lift off oversteer" in them but how often would you do that on the road?
Have to be carrying a fair amount of speed into the corners to get the back to step out and even then it looks ugly and lacks the balance of doing it in a rear driver.

Someone needs to build a rear driver hot hatch that is more powerful than an MX5 and cheaper than a BMW130i.

[Wonky]

I haven't driven one but that much power going through the front wheels equals = torque steer and understeer.

I haven't either but have read road tests on quite a few cars of similar ilk and most have clever electronics to reduce torque steer to negligible proportions (supposedly).

[caspy]

They are trying to sell VXR astras back home in the UK, but nobodies buying them because despite being quite fast, they are still quite expensive. And thats the exact same reason the Monaro failed in the UK, too :(


There is no dealer stock of Astra VXR as everyone made is sold!! Not expensive, very sort after. And the Monaro didnt fail either, there are 14 unsold cars at present and 4 months til VXR8, again sold all that were allocated.

PS

HSV VXR....absolute hoot to drive, agressive, great fun and pretty damn quick for the cash.


It is not the purchase price over there but the insurance rating that kills sales. The Monaro insurance cost is 15% of its new car purchase price for most male drivers and the VXR is about 12%.

Would you pay around AUS$7,500 insurance on a brand new Monaro per year?


The average Monaro driver pays $2200 aus for a year, with mild mods. (cat back and remap etc) in the UK.

[CV860L]

I haven't either but have read road tests on quite a few cars of similar ilk and most have clever electronics to reduce torque steer to negligible proportions (supposedly).

I heard that in a recent dvd but they cut the power of the engine in order to prevent torque steer.
I certainly wouldn't build a car and then limit it's power under full acceleration to reduce torque steer,
I know they're trying and good on them for having a go, but at the end of the day it's asking too much of the front wheels to steer and put the power down.
Bring on the hypo 4cyl rear wheel drivers !!!

[Island boy HSV]

The Astra VXR that I drove very recently had torque steer, the HSV site and the UK VXR site are claiming the same power levels so I dont think they would have de tuned them for AUS. Any one in AUS driven one and coudl let us know?

[AFAR]

Personally for the same sort of money id be going for a WRX.
Better performance, better handling.
They dont look the best.
But imo are a much better package.

[csv rulz]

Personally for the same sort of money id be going for a WRX.
Better performance, better handling.
They dont look the best.
But imo are a much better package.

Thats exactly what iv been talking about. Holden have the Astra and Barina which appeal to young females but what about something to appeal to young males who dont want a big Sedan with a thumping V8.

My mate bought a WRX the other day and it impressed me a lot. I just wish Holden had something to compete with the WRX - they would have a lot more young male buyers than who in the future would probably end up buying a V8.

Dont get me wrong i love V8's and will one day own one but while i dont have a family i would also like to own a small nimble peformance car.

[brentonsav]

whenever i see a guy in a 4cyl, whatever it is. my first thought is "homosexual?"
i cant see many people move from a v8 to a astra, however quick it is.

i'd let my girlfrind buy one if she wanted one though,

[angelo.vs]

whenever i see a guy in a 4cyl, whatever it is. my first thought is "homosexual?"
i cant see many people move from a v8 to a astra, however quick it is.




Thats a bit narrow minded. My dad drives a 4 cyl. He had a VT SS LS1 and a VX LS1. Only reason he downgraded was because they bought a brand new house.

[csv rulz]

Thats a bit narrow minded. My dad drives a 4 cyl. He had a VT SS LS1 and a VX LS1. Only reason he downgraded was because they bought a brand new house.

My dad also had a VX SS he has 2 V8 fairlanes at the moment and today is trading one in on a Subaru Liberty.

His V8 fairlanes cant keep up with my 1.8L alfetta and my alfetta was made in 1976 his fairlane was made in 1996

[xploit]

The Astra VXR that I drove very recently had torque steer, the HSV site and the UK VXR site are claiming the same power levels so I dont think they would have de tuned them for AUS. Any one in AUS driven one and coudl let us know?

I've driven one,

And the torque steer is really bad, especially if you plant it from the lights, and id hate to try and control the thing in the wet.

They certainly havnt de-tuned them.

Especially if your tyres were down a bit.

If they made it in a rear wheel drive id have one tommorrow!!.




Personally for the same sort of money id be going for a WRX.
Better performance, better handling.
They dont look the best.
But imo are a much better package.


Hell....no...

Better performance?? i dont think so.. maybe an STI does, but then your looking at 60K easily.

The vxr for its 42,000, and new, comparing apples for apples, the VXR makes mince meat of the WRX.

In looks, relatively similar performance and value for money.


You really cant comment untill you drive this car... it will blow you away, im a V8 man through and through, family have had many HSV's and currently have a 700-800hp 1955 chevrolet 4dr, but this little VXR is absoloute madness with its size, and if it was AWD it would be good, if it was RWD id be ordering 3 tommorrow :teach: :teach: :yahoo: :thumbsup:

Cheers.

[chevypower]

if you made the 6L V8 Commodore a FWD, it would be madness. Some cars can handle FWD just fine and are designed for it obviously. I think Aussies need to get over it seriously, there are a lot of good FWDs out there, that are built for handling, acceleration AND top speed - Astras are designed with the autobahn in mind surely. Awesome handling too.

[xploit]

My dad also had a VX SS he has 2 V8 fairlanes at the moment and today is trading one in on a Subaru Liberty.

His V8 fairlanes cant keep up with my 1.8L alfetta and my alfetta was made in 1976 his fairlane was made in 1996


Thats because there fords :stick: :stick: :thumbsup:


if you made the 6L V8 Commodore a FWD, it would be madness. Some cars can handle FWD just fine and are designed for it obviously. I think Aussies need to get over it seriously, there are a lot of good FWDs out there, that are built for handling, acceleration AND top speed - Astras are designed with the autobahn in mind surely. Awesome handling too.

Not the VXR..

trust me its insanity...

[csv rulz]

Thats because there fords :stick: :stick: :thumbsup:



:lmao: :lmao: :lmao: :lmao: GOOD CALL

My Alfette out runs my VT - only just but its still quicker

[brentonsav]

Thats a bit narrow minded. My dad drives a 4 cyl. He had a VT SS LS1 and a VX LS1. Only reason he downgraded was because they bought a brand new house.

i should rephrase what i said. what i meant was a "performance" 4 cyl.

[csv rulz]

i should rephrase what i said. what i meant was a "performance" 4 cyl.

So guys that drive EVO's and STI's are gay????

Coz i think both of those are awesome cars. Thats pretty naro minded to think anyone who drives a peformance 4 is gay.

I beilieve thos guys who try to make a non peformance 4 seem like a peformance 4 are w**kers ie: hyandai excel with drain pipe exhaust etc.

[phunky_monkey]

i should rephrase what i said. what i meant was a "performance" 4 cyl.

What a ridiculous comment.

I have a clubby and a 180sx, and I won't tell you which one I like better, goes better, looks better, stops better, and handles better :)

You're idea of 'performance' may be a little askew... if it's means going fast in a straight line to you, then that's all good. But there's more to a performance car than balls alone.


Thats because there fords :stick: :stick: :thumbsup:



Not the VXR..

trust me its insanity...

I was told by the owner that it handled really well, you just have to know how to drive a FWD. They're completely different.

You're best control of power, and torque steer, is your right foot :) But yeah, I'd imagine if you weren't careful it'd bite you hard!

I honestly think they're just having a power war with hatches these days to help sell cars. People only care about power figures, not whether the power will actually be useful, or a hindrance.

[csv rulz]

My dad just bought a 2002 liberty - four a 2.5L 4cylinder it impressed me with its get up and go.

Alot of people write four cylinder cars off what they dont relise is power to weight ratio adds a whole new dimension.

[phunky_monkey]

Tell me about it... it's getting better though.

A lot of people in the import scene don't think much of the clubby, and a lot of people with 8's don't think much of the 180. But why bother trying to convince narrow minded people? They're the ones missing out :)

The libertys are nice, I almost bought a '02 B4 before the clubby, really nice car.

[csv rulz]

Tell me about it... it's getting better though.

A lot of people in the import scene don't think much of the clubby, and a lot of people with 8's don't think much of the 180. But why bother trying to convince narrow minded people? They're the ones missing out :)

The libertys are nice, I almost bought a '02 B4 before the clubby, really nice car.

I couldnt believe the quality of the interior it was definatly superior to my VT. And the gear changes there so smooth they make the box in the VX SS 6spd we had feel like a truck gearbox.

What was the b4 like to drive? how did it compare to the clubby for enjoyment? when im due for my next car (18months) i will definatly be looking at the b4 along with a vx ss. I never would have even considered one up until 3 nights ago when i drove dads Liberty.

[My SS-V]

To the guys that diss imports, I have only recently got out of my R32 Skyline, yes mine was a 6 cylinder but for power to weight, handling and breaking it would beat my 2007 model SSV hands down.
Only reason I upgraded was because i had the skyline for 6 years and it was time for a change. I was sick of the yellow stickers, the harassment and the generalization that i was a "HOON".

I wanted to pick up an Evo 9 or a 2007 model STI, but both of these cars are in the mid to high $60's plus on road, I walked away with my SSV for about $50 grand if I could have got a brand new Evo or Sti for the same price i wouldn't even considered the SSV.

I find the VE to be a huge car in size, I have logged on to the HSV website and booked for a test drive in the VXR, because i would love a new car that had decent power and is smaller than my VE.

I personally think Holden should have tried to make the VE on the Concept Torana platform, due to the size of the car. Just my IMO...

Greg

[phunky_monkey]

I couldnt believe the quality of the interior it was definatly superior to my VT. And the gear changes there so smooth they make the box in the VX SS 6spd we had feel like a truck gearbox.

What was the b4 like to drive? how did it compare to the clubby for enjoyment? when im due for my next car (18months) i will definatly be looking at the b4 along with a vx ss. I never would have even considered one up until 3 nights ago when i drove dads Liberty.

Yeah, most definately man. Looks like it's put together well.

The B4 was really nice man. Beautiful interior, nice Mcintosh sound system, comfy leather. It seemed to handle well, had a nice amount of poke. The well documented turbo changeover point isn't very good, but is easily sorted with a chip. Being a jap car man myself, it suited me really well in size, and ergonomics, two things that irk me about the clubby. I would have considered it a lot more seriously if it's towing capacity was higher. The ability to tow my 180 was the ultimate decider between all the cars I tested.

My SS-V: I know how you feel man. I love my clubby, but the size thing is an issue for me. The Evo is my preference as well, but again, I needed something that could tow.

Dane

[caspy]

The official UK press release and pics for VXR8......

http://www.hsv.org.uk/topic.asp?t=360720&f=69&h=27

[planetdavo]

To the guys that diss imports, I have only recently got out of my R32 Skyline, yes mine was a 6 cylinder but for power to weight, handling and breaking it would beat my 2007 model SSV hands down.
Only reason I upgraded was because i had the skyline for 6 years and it was time for a change. I was sick of the yellow stickers, the harassment and the generalization that i was a "HOON".

I wanted to pick up an Evo 9 or a 2007 model STI, but both of these cars are in the mid to high $60's plus on road, I walked away with my SSV for about $50 grand if I could have got a brand new Evo or Sti for the same price i wouldn't even considered the SSV.

I find the VE to be a huge car in size, I have logged on to the HSV website and booked for a test drive in the VXR, because i would love a new car that had decent power and is smaller than my VE.

I personally think Holden should have tried to make the VE on the Concept Torana platform, due to the size of the car. Just my IMO...

Greg
By the sound of this "huge" VE you own, and are obviously thinking of getting rid of, I fail to comprehend why you even bought it in the first place!


if you made the 6L V8 Commodore a FWD, it would be madness. Some cars can handle FWD just fine and are designed for it obviously. I think Aussies need to get over it seriously, there are a lot of good FWDs out there, that are built for handling, acceleration AND top speed - Astras are designed with the autobahn in mind surely. Awesome handling too.
Now, about pulling that heavy boat up the boat ramp....:hide:
Car makers do it for THEIR benefit (cheaper cost to make), not OUR benefit.

[PWNAGE]

the gear changes there so smooth they make the box in the VX SS 6spd we had feel like a truck gearbox.

The Tremec T56 is a truck box isn't it? ;) :p

[Swordie]

The only thing that turns me off turbo cars is the ones with blow off valves. I saw a F6 a few days ago making the sounds I thought it was a wank and what a way to destroy a good car. Maybe I'm getting to old to understand.

[iamhappy46]

In the US, GM got some serious N/A power out of their new 4cyl 2.4L(believ it was over 300Hp!) and I would love to see it in a medium sized Holden. Something along the lines of a BMW 1 series, which also has RWD.

[coco]

I wouldn't read too much into it mate, driver skill is the biggest factor at the end of the day, its impossible to know unless you look at the stats of each car on paper and even then it depends on how well its driven.


your comment "CRIES OUT" denial (or so I am seeing it.....i might be wrong). We all know that the VXR has the potential to beat an LS1, and I strongly believe it can.

Of course, it will only be from the start, as...of course...gearing, rev ranges and top end power will munch a 4 cylinder at the end of the day.

Although I would buy a VXR and revise the engine and put a larger turbo and intercooler just to make some heads roll.

[jamesd]

They are trying to sell VXR astras back home in the UK, but nobodies buying them because despite being quite fast, they are still quite expensive. And thats the exact same reason the Monaro failed in the UK, too :(

They're the cheapest of the hot hatches, I believe. Probably has something to do with the mad torque steer ;)

[555]

Yeah, and also I reckon people in the UK would rather spend their money on a golf GTI or audi a3 / s3 than spend all that money on a vauxhall. There is a fair bit of badge snobbery over there IMHO!

Having said that I seen a few examples of that mad renault clio with the wide body kit that has like 260 bhp or something. Now that is some hot hatch.

[Rombles]

This thread seems to contain pointers to all the ingredients that should be in a new Torana.... a hot, Aussie-made, RWD/AWD optioned, 4-cyl (maybe with a 6-cyl option). There's capacity at Elizabeth. Just need to use Mr Simcoe's wall again for the secret design work.... HSV could go mad with it. I'd buy one. Just gotta call it a Torana, and make it TOUGH!

[BLACKWAGON]

Yeah, and also I reckon people in the UK would rather spend their money on a golf GTI or audi a3 / s3 than spend all that money on a vauxhall. There is a fair bit of badge snobbery over there IMHO!

Having said that I seen a few examples of that mad renault clio with the wide body kit that has like 260 bhp or something. Now that is some hot hatch.

To be honest if I was looking at a small car in europe I would go german too, look at the prices compared to oz.
2nd hand m3 for almost the same as a used clubby.

At the end of the day its what u want, a small lightweight car with turbos is gonna hammer, but for me Id rather get beaten by one than own one.
Give me the v8 anyday regardless of whats quicker.