Skaife thrown off TEGA

[S man]

A little goss thats been kept pretty well under raps.
Mark Skaife has been suspended as a member of the board of TEGA.:yahoo:

This is a result of his ownership[HRT] being under investagation by the TEGA board. It looks like the two teams are still being looked at very closely, & I would say if they dont get the paper work sorted out by today there will be a ban on them competing.:deal:

It is looking like this issue has been pending for over 3 years but has now come to a head.
It would make the HSVDT winning the championship victory very hollow indead. Infact any victory be HRT or HSVDT for that matter..
If it in fact turn out ther've been running outside the rules for that amount of time, there under a very dark clowd...:cussing:

[all4ford]

A little goss thats been kept pretty well under raps.
Mark Skaife has been suspended as a member of the board of TEGA.:yahoo:
:Fair enough IF its true, there is a conflict of interest.


This is a result of his ownership[HRT] being under investagation by the TEGA board. It looks like the two teams are still being looked at very closely, & I would say if they dont get the paper work sorted out by today there will be a ban on them competing.:deal: : That would never happen. The series needs these 4 cars and their drivers. Holden would go nuts.


It is looking like this issue has been pending for over 3 years but has now come to a head.
It would make the HSVDT winning the championship victory very hollow indead. Infact any victory be HRT or HSVDT for that matter..
If it in fact turn out ther've been running outside the rules for that amount of time, there under a very dark clowd...:cussing:They have been running basically a 4 car team forever. Who really gives a shit? I'm sure no one on this forum is going to feel any different towards previous wins.

[mickeyVX350]

Are you mental... I am glad you can go on with your "Skaife Bashing" but he has done a fantastic job representing the drivers on important issues primarily relating to safety of drivers and circuit condition.

If that is worth celebrating then you have serious problems.

and PS, Avesco grouped the HRT, HSVDT Teams, so in my eyes it is their problem.

[!!COOKY!!]

You would think that with the level of commitment and money invested in these teams that any issues regarding ownership etc. would be sorted and the 4 cars would definately be running in the 2007 season.
I don't think it would be in the interests of the governing bodies to try and ban these teams, just investigate the current situation and make sure it is all within parity of the rest of the teams. There has been decisions made in the past (ie. cutting down of practice etc) that both teams seem to comply with quite easily.
The organising bodies obviously have to try and control the sport in as fair a way as possible for all teams concerned. I don't think they are inteterested in hindering it by banning two of the best teams in the series.
Skaife has been a great ambassador for the brand we love and is dissapointing to see these types of threads applauding issues that have been created around this ownership issue.
Heres hoping it alls gets sorted quickly and we can enjoy a great season for all Holden teams and maybe a bit more of the magic back from Skaife now that he seems to have a little less on his plate.

[S man]

Hay listen girls. Dont shoot the messanger!!

I grew up living in the same steet in the same town as Mark, his dad & mum, & his grandad! In fact I was nearly related to him.:deal:
I think the guy is a great driver too. But lets not get defencive here.
This team whether it be his , Toms or the Kellys whoever, need to get things in order, this issue just keeps comming up, so once & for all fix the bloody thing!!

Its only making both teams look like cheats, yes I said "cheats". If you wanna stop all the inquirys, be up front & stop skulking in the bushers.:p

It may not change the way the fans see the team. But what if your not a fan of one team or the other, you are just a fan of V8s racing?
Thats what I ment about this matter leaving a clowd over the teams.
As for Skaife bashing, have I struck a nerve? Because I was not Skaife bashing in any way. I was simply relaying what I have found out. Someone gave me the heads up on the issue, so I thought someone mabe interested,nothing more.:teach:
What the outcome will be I dont know, but lets hope that its sorted before this afternoon.

Anyway there wont be anymore info comming this way, I'll just let it unfold by itself.
By By:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

[timbo]

Can someone explain to me what the issue with ownership is???? I dont understand the issue because I thought that Skaife owned the HRT team and Rick Kellys parents owned the HSVDT. Doesnt Tom Walkinshaw just manage both teams? I understand that he owned HRT at one stage but he doesnt now so why is there an issue?

[`redoctober]

Wasn't this just posted the other day, but with HRT as the main focus of the article, not Skaife?

[mickeyVX350]

A little goss thats been kept pretty well under raps.
Mark Skaife has been suspended as a member of the board of TEGA.:yahoo:


That's my reference to "Skaife Bashing", as in expressing joy at another persons failure. The icon says it all.

[igniton]

news flash......

ford wins the 2007 ford tega championship for fords . wot championship?:serenade:

holden wins the 2007 Australian V8 racing car championship ...that sounds better don't you think. just for holdens :driving:

[vxssgurl]

That's my reference to "Skaife Bashing", as in expressing joy at another persons failure. The icon says it all.

Sure does.

Besides Brocky, I think Skaife has done more for the brand AND the sport than many others that have come before or after him.

There are heaps of personalities on the track, but take them out of the car, and they are all ego... driven by what's in it for them, not what's in it for the sport. Or they pi$$ and moan when they lose out - after having done to them what they have in fact dished out to others.

I may not have grown up on the same street as Skaife - but I have met the man more than once - and yes, it's good to say, finally, that Skaife has become a MAN, and not just a bloke driving a hot car... there is quite a difference! - and he is just as personable and nice, and well spoken, and articulate with his fans (whether they are 5, 50 or 90 years old) as his is with the media.

And by the way - there is a HUGE difference between being suspeneded from membership, and being dumped from the group... talk about sensationalising things to get a rise out of people... well - well done, you did that, but not in a way that you were expecting though, eh?

So if you're not Skaife bashing, S man, what are you doing?

[exploder]

Can someone explain to me what the issue with ownership is???? I dont understand the issue because I thought that Skaife owned the HRT team and Rick Kellys parents owned the HSVDT. Doesnt Tom Walkinshaw just manage both teams? I understand that he owned HRT at one stage but he doesnt now so why is there an issue?

TEGA have asked for proof of ownership of the two teams and adequate documentation hasnt been provided.

Holden bought everything they could when Uncle Tom went bankrupt, at the time you could own more than one team. Then he went bankrupt and Holden bought everything they could to save HRT, whatever HSVDT where called and of course HSV. A manufacturer cant own a team and the rules where changed to limit ownership interest to only one team so the franchise was split and sold to Skaife and the Kelly's. A lot of people at the time and I guess they still exist didnt beleive this was any more than a paper work exercise and the sales where actually bogus (I dont know, it not my conspiracy theory).

Any ways uncle Tom turns up in Australia and is appointed boss of Holden Motorsport overseeing HRT and HSVDT. This is where the conspiracy kicks in, their is some conjecture that these teams where not actually legally sold as they where not an asset that could be taken form Tom (you'd need an accountant who knows this stuff to find out if this is feasable or not) so therefore Tom may have claim to ownership and TEGA want too know if this is true or not because its a breech of their rules.

There are some bits to this I've missed or forgotten i'd expect, but some how PWR used to fit into this puzzle as well.

[EXCESSV]

the ownership issue keeps getting brought up coz the ford boys keep whinging...they always do its there nature...i can go on and give examples but aint gonna start a ford bashing thread.
it was a enquiry by TEGA for clarification based on a anonymous enquiry by a team asking for a explanation...they are following process and the media has had field day with it causing ppl to get too exciting and starting making all sorts of claims and comments....storm in a tea cup...get over it

whether holden sold HSVDT and HRT to Kellys and Scaife respectively for $1 or $1mil then it really doesnt matter...they owned it for a short period and can sell it for whatever they wish.....whos to question someone if they sell a car, house, whatever for $1....no one

Tom was appointed at boss of HOLDEN motorsport after the whole bankruptcy issue finished and HRT and HSVDT are factory team for Holden and HSV respectively so technically yeah he manages them.

HRT and HSVDT decided to share data and for that TEGA classed them as one team and as one team the 2 teams only received test days as if they were one team and only 2 cars per test session to balance things up.

as others have said ppl might not like skaife but what he has done for the sport and Holden is more than most have done...he put his hand up and took all the legal and paperwork burdens to save HRT...
ppl may not like him but for what he had to do and the pressure he was and still is to a point the guy has come out of it ok....
less pressure and a bit of luck should see HRT dominate once again. they have the speed but just are unlucky and having some reliability issues which is unlike the team...

without HSVDT and HRT you might as well kiss the category goodbye....they bring in alot of the fans, viewers, sell alot of merchandise, heavily advertise, promote and get involved in the committees to represent drivers, teams and safety....

anyway my rant over:cussing:

[Bigmaxy]

whos to question someone if they sell a car, house, whatever for $1....no one

The tax office and the RTA for a start :p

I agree with what you have said DeanoHSV though, the championship would be a mockery without HRT and HSVDT. I don't think most ford boys would be too happy either, at least those that like close racing.

[timbo]

Thanks for that exploder.... So the major problem is that both the team owners (skaife + Kellys) havent supplied enough paperwork to show that they own the teams and not Walkinshaw.

The impression that I get is that Tom Walkinshaw is managing both teams. Is this legal? It has been said that tega grouped both teams together for sharing information..... What is the difference between these 2 teams sharing testing info and other teams sharing info... Like all those teams that use Stone Brothers engines and parts.

I think that something suss is going on here. Maybe the holden teams are not squeaky clean but i dont think the other teams that are complaining are perfect themselves and I think that they need to be careful as this investigation could possibly change the rules and these other teams might find things changing for the worse.

The other thought that I have had.... Is it the Ford teams complaining that has brought this on? Or..... did Walkinshaw bring this upon himself with the stunt he pulled changing the drivers around for the enduros last year? I think he may have upset a few people by doing that. It was the right thing to do for his teams and the championship but I dont think it was seen that way by tega and v8sca.

[GTS LSA]

Hasnt this already been done to death in 2 different threads, one has already been closed.............................. might be time for this one to be closed too...

Its OK to have an opinion..... sometimes it's a good idea to keep it to yourself........ as far as Skaife is concerned I doubt there is a harder working driver out there.......... not just representing Holden, but the sport in general............leave the man alone & GET A GRIP:sux:

[exploder]

Thanks for that exploder.... So the major problem is that both the team owners (skaife + Kellys) havent supplied enough paperwork to show that they own the teams and not Walkinshaw.

The impression that I get is that Tom Walkinshaw is managing both teams. Is this legal? It has been said that tega grouped both teams together for sharing information..... What is the difference between these 2 teams sharing testing info and other teams sharing info... Like all those teams that use Stone Brothers engines and parts.

I think that something suss is going on here. Maybe the holden teams are not squeaky clean but i dont think the other teams that are complaining are perfect themselves and I think that they need to be careful as this investigation could possibly change the rules and these other teams might find things changing for the worse.

The other thought that I have had.... Is it the Ford teams complaining that has brought this on? Or..... did Walkinshaw bring this upon himself with the stunt he pulled changing the drivers around for the enduros last year? I think he may have upset a few people by doing that. It was the right thing to do for his teams and the championship but I dont think it was seen that way by tega and v8sca.

Well the Ford teams that do share where grouped, namely FPR and Britek, SBR supply engines to customers and nothing else same as Perkins supplies engines to SCAR and a few others. If the rule was you only had to supply parts then all but Perkins and Morris would be grouped in the Holden camp as they are the only ones who build there own chassis, every one else uses Dencar, which I think Uncle Tom owns....

The issue with supplying data between teams is that you effectively get double the testing, so the decision was made by Tega that grouped teams only get a single team's testing allegation. Now lets not forget TEGA is made up of two Holden appointed reps and two Ford appointed reps and one neutral, so the Factories effectively made the rules.

As for which team complained, the loudest noise when the ban was lifted was made by GRM. If was to wager money on who raised the question I'd be looking towards a pair of very dark coloured cars as the owner has always been known to protest rule infringements and usually knows the rules better than the stewards.

[ratty05]

I don't see any problem, so what if they run as a four car team. Is it any different to the ford teams in a 'technical alliance' or 'engine partnership' with stone brothers or triple 8.

[Akazia]

Ban em I say, Rick Kelly whinges at the drop of a hat (Must have been driving with Murphy for too long), and skaife well, the rules of the races change to suit him. You only have to look at Bathurst 2002 when he drove with Jim Richards. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that on a restart the cars have to be in single file, no car is allowed to pass untill after they cross the control line. Then how is it that he did not get pulled up for passing the Perkins car of Richards/Ingall on the control line on the restart? Double standards if you ask me, the blind eye gets turned far too often with some of these teams, anyone else did it they would have been pulled up.

As for there being no championship if HRT and HSVDT left the series, well thats a load of crap, the racing would still go on, I would have no dramas watching it. There are plently of other Holden teams that have a fair amount of skill and up and coming talent ie, GRM, SCAR, Tasman, JDR... It would not be the Ford white wash that some reckon would happen.....

[seldo]

Dollop!...

[vxssgurl]

Ban em I say, Rick Kelly whinges at the drop of a hat (Must have been driving with Murphy for too long), and skaife well, the rules of the races change to suit him. You only have to look at Bathurst 2002 when he drove with Jim Richards. Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that on a restart the cars have to be in single file, no car is allowed to pass untill after they cross the control line. Then how is it that he did not get pulled up for passing the Perkins car of Richards/Ingall on the control line on the restart? Double standards if you ask me, the blind eye gets turned far too often with some of these teams, anyone else did it they would have been pulled up.

As for there being no championship if HRT and HSVDT left the series, well thats a load of crap, the racing would still go on, I would have no dramas watching it. There are plently of other Holden teams that have a fair amount of skill and up and coming talent ie, GRM, SCAR, Tasman, JDR... It would not be the Ford white wash that some reckon would happen.....


Jayzus Murphy.

I thought this was supposed to be an intelligent thread - not a "Let's Dump Shite on Skaife" Thread...

Time to close it off I think...

[Glubbo]

Going by the current Auto Action, HRT and HSVRT are okay to race at Adelaide while TEGA continue to investigate.

Oh, and hi all. Long time reader, first time caller, er, poster.

Was it just me, or was it actually hard to understand what S Man was saying? Their spelling was atrocious...


Looking forward to seeing the HRT/HSVRT cars (with no new-car Gremlins) carving it up at Adelaide.

[maxter]

Hay listen girls. Dont shoot the messanger!!

...Because I was not Skaife bashing in any way. I was simply relaying what I have found out. Someone gave me the heads up on the issue, so I thought someone mabe interested,nothing more...


Ummmmmm... "Infact any victory be HRT or HSVDT for that matter..
If it in fact turn out ther've been running outside the rules for that amount of time, there under a very dark clowd...

That's not "simply relaying what I have found out", sounds more like a personal opinion, and a negative one at that.



Anyway there wont be anymore info comming this way, I'll just let it unfold by itself.
By By:wave: :wave: :wave: :wave: :wave:

Given the quality of the original report, it's probably a good thing.

[IgottaLS1]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I believe that on a restart the cars have to be in single file, no car is allowed to pass untill after they cross the control line. Then how is it that he did not get pulled up for passing the Perkins car of Richards/Ingall on the control line on the restart? Double standards if you ask me, the blind eye gets turned far too often with some of these teams, anyone else did it they would have been pulled up.


I think that this was legal at the time ('overlaping' but not 'overtaking' or something). After this they then brought in the rule that said a restart must be done in a single file.

[VTSSDUDE]

Why do a lot of people hate Skaife? Yeah I know he is arrogrant and doesn't have the time of the day to sign your autograph and that kind of crap. But come one, he is second to Brock and a successful racing driver. Oh yeah, that's right he also drives for HOLDEN!
I think it's pretty slack that everyone takes the crap out of him. That's my opinion anyway.

[csv rulz]

Skaife has done a lot for holden and V8 supercars, both MArk Skaife and Craig Lowndes are the ambassators for the sport. Why do people diss like him so much, everytime i have meet him he has been nothing but polite. Im a huge fan of both skaife and lowndes and i hope one day lowndes will join skaife and drive a real red car (unlike that fake one his driving this season)

I think people need to cut skaife some slack. He is one of the greatest touring car drivers in this country, next to jim richards and peter brock.

[Ken]

...If the rule was you only had to supply parts then all but Perkins and Morris would be grouped in the Holden camp as they are the only ones who build there own chassis, every one else uses Dencar, which I think Uncle Tom owns....

The above is not even close to an accurate statement.
Tasman Motorsport (just as an example) build the entire cars from scratch using input from various suppliers.

[gsw]

Is it the Ford teams complaining that has brought this on? Or..... did Walkinshaw bring this upon himself with the stunt he pulled changing the drivers around for the enduros last year?

Timbo from what I understand it was a Holden team who complained. The stunt pulled in the enduros brought the issue to the surface again. Garry Rogers is one of those teams that are not happy (don't know if it was this team that complained though). http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,21261072-23770,00.html

Personally I don't want them banned (I want to see Kelly lose his crown this year) but they do have to comply with all the rules just like everybody else. The sooner those teams get ride of TW the better.

[HacketR8]

The above is not even close to an accurate statement.
Tasman Motorsport (just as an example) build the entire cars from scratch using input from various suppliers.

Ken,

As you are directly involved with a V8 team i'm interested to hear your comments on "Data Sharing". I vaugly recall that Paul Morris and I am not 100% sure weather it was Tasman or Team Kiwi signed a deal at the beginning of last season regarding sharing information. Were / are they then treated as a single team and have testing day restrictions applied to the 2 teams.

I see this whole issue as the old Aussie "Tall Poppy Syndrome". V8 Supercar Racing in Australia is an absolute JOKE and as far as I am conserned might as well be a one make series. The "Holden" badged cars are more ford than holden anyway. Bottom line is Ford could not make the grade so Holden has been restricted to use their "out of date" technology.

While I am on my soap box, one thing that has alway's P....S..D me off on this forum is members who choose not too openly declare their Ride or Age.

:sux:

[gsw]

Bottom line is Ford could not make the grade so Holden has been restricted to use their "out of date" technology.


Agree with most things you said except for the above. Holdens V8's use the same suspension as Ford (double wishbone) which was considered better then what they were using. Also you may notice the heads on the V8 has now more than a match for Fords V8 (and very similar) due to the siamese system being discontinued in the Holdens.

[Phantom_Menace]

While I am on my soap box, one thing that has alway's P....S..D me off on this forum is members who choose not too openly declare their Ride or Age.:sux:

What does it matter what car people drive or for that matter how old they are? Are you a better person because your over 40 and drive a VZ GTO COUPE...? I think not. This has no bearing on peoples input. :teach:

Paul

[HacketR8]

What does it matter what car people drive or for that matter how old they are? Are you a better person because your over 40 and drive a VZ GTO COUPE...? I think not. This has no bearing on peoples input. :teach:

Paul

Paul,

I know I am no better or worse than enyone else on this planet.

I am a card carrying, certified, recently non smoking, grumpy old bastard, who has no issue with either my age or what I drive. Though I have obviously drawn a cord with you.

[Phantom_Menace]

Paul,

I know I am no better or worse than enyone else on this planet.

I am a card carrying, certified, recently non smoking, grumpy old bastard, who has no issue with either my age or what I drive. Though I have obviously drawn a cord with you.

Not at all Grumpy..:p lol. Just wonder why it would upset you thats all mate. then you put this thread sux smiley.

Paul.