Aftermarket Sunroof VE

[padrino]

Hey Guys,

First of all im new on here and have just been poking around various threads and found a load of useful info on everything i am wanting to know, so cheers for all that.

Anyways my question is:

While at the Holden dealer the other day finalising the paperwork on a 06 plated SS (still new just not this year new) i was asking about getting a sunroof fitted.

Now the line they threw me was that it couldn't be done outside of the factory build as it would comprimise the structual integrity of the car.

Now this seems a reasonable enough of an explanation but is this an absolute true fact or maybe they just didnt have the resources or knowledge to get it done? I also ask this question as i know there are literally 10s of 1000s of cars out there with aftermarket sunroofs fitted, is it really any different for the VE? :confused:

[Stealthy TT]

There might be some truth in what you're being told. The early VE's had problems with aftermarket sunroofs leaking, which might be a result of movement of the roof itself.
I've also noticed the factory sounroofs are a bit smaller that the aftermarket ones - I would assume there are size limits to preserve the structural integrity...

Cheers,
Stealthy

[SSV8pilot]

I think I have heard this before and there was some truth about cables etc. needing to be routed slightly differently in the roof section for sunroof models.

Cant remember where this cropped up but I know the logic/reasons sounded plausible.

Also on my SSv (with no sunroof) the headlining trim as I recall (not sitting in the car at the moment) - has a center raised section running from front to rear windscreen. Getting an aftermarket unit to sit flush on the headlining may be a challenge.

[padrino]

Cheers for the feed back guys,

As i said there was enough reasoning behind what they were saying but i wasnt sure if it was complete fact or not.

SSV8pilot my SS (when i eventually pick it up :banghead: ) has the same raised section on the roof trim as well so yep very valid point on getting the sunroof to fit flush.

Cheers

Ben

[MTC]

I just rang the Sunroof Centre & enquired on a Sunroof for a VE As I will be ordering a HSV soon & Yes aftermarket Sunroof's can go in them & it is still the same size sunroof as previous models the Webasto Hollinda 700. i have had the same sunroof in a VX SS, VY Berlina wagon, GUIII Patrol, VYII Clubby, there a great sunroof.

They do have to fit a RSR roof safety system in under the roof linng tho which is.

ROOF CROSSBARS
Increased safety concerns, especially with SIPS (Side Impact Protection Systems) have lead Webasto to develop the Roof Stiffener Replacement System (RSR System). This is used on vehicles where the crossbar removed from under the roof is deemed part of the Side Impact Protection System and the normal framework of the sunroof needs additional strength to absorb the side impact in the event of a collision. Not all vehicles require this RSR System to be fitted, and testing is carried out to determine this. Approval was granted to this system by the German TUV following extensive crash testing in Europe and it is now fitted as standard on any Hollandia 700, Hollandia 300 and Hollandia 500 Elegance installations in vehicles which require this stiffener.

[EddieVE06]

Does anyone know the cost of an aftermarket sunroof?

[EXCESSV]

they CAN be fitted aftermarket but the reason the dealer is saying only on factory floor is because when a VE is ordered with a sunroof they need to be a special made as the roof is different to the non sunroof ones.
It is strengthen to ensure the safety level is still there due to all the extra safety feature present on the VE.

and therefore as MIKEVYII said the aftermarket places which are doing proper installs do fit a RSR roof safety system in under the roof lining.
these like the factory ones reduce the amount of headroom as it drops the roof liner lower than non sunroof models...

[MTC]

Does anyone know the cost of an aftermarket sunroof?

I was Quoted $2200 For a Webasto Hollinda 700 sunroof from the sunroof centre in Noble Park just before when I spoke to them

[mac06]

I was Quoted $2200 For a Webasto Hollinda 700 sunroof from the sunroof centre in Noble Park just before when I spoke to them

Maybe that is why the factory fit ones have gone up to $1,990 from 1st March

[Pilbara SSV]

The sunroof in ours was factory fitted when ordered.
I don't think i would like someone just adding a roof brace! Holden has spent millions on design and i wouldn't be convinced that the aftermarket bars are up to scratch. If you want some photo's let me know with a PM.
It does reduce your headroom a bit. I'm a bit over 6 foot and it isn't to bad, there is still a couple of inches gap from my hair to roof lining, (number 2 crew cut).
At $1690.00 it sounds like it may have been a bargain when fitted.
Good luck with whatever you choose.
Just a thought, warranty could be an issue with body integrity?

[Black AH CDX]

Holden reccomends that aftermarket sunroof's are NOT fitted to VE's.

The main reason behind this is because of the structural integrity of the bodyshell.

Also the Body shell of a car with a sunroof is different from one with out (extra bracing i believe).

So yes, you can do it, but Holden recommends you don't.

[vxssgurl]

So yes, you can do it, but Holden recommends you don't.

When looking at the SSV, this is what I was told -

"Aftermarket sunroofs will void the warranty as they will interfere with the structural integrity of the vehicle. No doubt aftermarket units will be available, and fitted, however, Holden will not accept any warranty claim for torsional twist as a result of a non-compliant sunroof being fitted."

Pretty much word for word. It stuck with me, because the wording was so specific... most dealers wouldn't KNOW about torsional stability, let alone bring it into a conversation - unless they had been instructed to.

The bar that runs down the roofline is there for a reason. If you want a sunroof - get it fitted by Holden; they know the vehicle, how it was built, and why it was built that way. I'm not saying aftermarket fitters are bad (although some are) - they were not responsible for the design of the car OR the sunroof... so how accurate (or safe) can they really be, when you are dealing with such a new issue as the body design of the VE?

In this era of having to be so specific about mods when getting insurance - how would an aftermarket sunroof affect your insurance (or lack of it) in the event of an accident, and Holden says it's not kosher?

[Stealthy TT]

When looking at the SSV, this is what I was told -

"Aftermarket sunroofs will void the warranty as they will interfere with the structural integrity of the vehicle. No doubt aftermarket units will be available, and fitted, however, Holden will not accept any warranty claim for torsional twist as a result of a non-compliant sunroof being fitted."

Pretty much word for word. It stuck with me, because the wording was so specific... most dealers wouldn't KNOW about torsional stability, let alone bring it into a conversation - unless they had been instructed to.

The bar that runs down the roofline is there for a reason. If you want a sunroof - get it fitted by Holden; they know the vehicle, how it was built, and why it was built that way. I'm not saying aftermarket fitters are bad (although some are) - they were not responsible for the design of the car OR the sunroof... so how accurate (or safe) can they really be, when you are dealing with such a new issue as the body design of the VE?

In this era of having to be so specific about mods when getting insurance - how would an aftermarket sunroof affect your insurance (or lack of it) in the event of an accident, and Holden says it's not kosher?


Actually this brings up a good question - what happens to customers that have had an aftermarket sunroof fitted by the dealer, as this happened a lot last year on the earlier models when there were delays in getting the facotry fitted ones?

I smell something burning!! :p

[sunny]

Hi every one sorry to butt in on your thread but there are a couple of discrepancies in your statements about aftermarket sunroofs for VE's.
First thing once a VE has left the factory it CANNOT go back and have a sunroof fitted - it can only have one fitted aftermarket.
The reasons given by GMH were that they could not reccommend fitting aftermarket because they had not tested one with an aftermarket roof installed . The previous model had been tested.
Now, Webasto-Hollandia have issued a release that may help if you are interested in fitting a roof aftermarket. To cut a long story short, Webasto AG manufacturers of the Webasto-Hollandia range of sunroofs have offered to its customers the same 3 year warranty relating to product faults.
Also a Product Liability Insurance to AU$20,000,000 underwritten
{a}worldwide by insurance consortiums and
{b}in Australia by QBE Mercantile Mutual covers both product failure and installation failure providing installation was made by webasto certified installers. This would surely satisfy any ones concerns.
Now as for roof braces etc there is a cross brace running from side to side NOT front to rear , the bulge in the lining is really only cosmetic as it keeps a standard roof trim from sagging . The cross brace is now made from a higher tensile strength steel it is designed to better resist side impact loads . When we fit an aftermarket Webasto-Hollandia sunroof to a VE or other model car etc, a bracket called an RSR is fitted to the sunroof housing it is designed so that it maintains the same side impact rate as the standard brace .
Unfortunatley Holden dealers have been reluctant to fit aftermarket but they are coming around . I also believe that Walkinshaws are offering the Webasto roof as part of their upgrades . Regards Howard Thrift, East Coast Sunroofs Qld
PS we have done quite a few VE's and Statesmans already. Webasto sunroofs are available in most states of Australia from authorised installers .

[OLS108]

does it make a difference to insurance i wonder ?
Dave

[EfiJy]

astermerket sunroofs are not the same as factry. i wouldnt get 1

[sunny]

Hey Dave it probably won,t make any difference to your insurance premium but make sure if you get one fitted aftermarket tell your insurance company that way if the car is written off or stolen etc your cost for the sunroof will be included in the payout etc regards Howard East Coast Sunroofs

Hey efijy whats the difference ?????????

[EfiJy]

Hey efijy whats the difference ?????????

roof structer

[sunny]

roof structer
Did you bother to read right through the post I put up ???? if removal of the roof brace was that critical to the integrity of the car it doesn,t say much for the design .before you jump in I would point out that some years back an independant engineering company did a structural test on a Holden Commodore and actualy found that the fitting of the sunroof actually STRENGTHENED the roof . There are so many factors in structural strength and no one could predict the out come of changes made , As I have been in the motor industry for over 30 years I have seen many cases of cars cracking and other body problems and none of them had a sunroof fitted !!!!!

[HSVMAN]

Did you bother to read right through the post I put up ???? if removal of the roof brace was that critical to the integrity of the car it doesn,t say much for the design .before you jump in I would point out that some years back an independant engineering company did a structural test on a Holden Commodore and actualy found that the fitting of the sunroof actually STRENGTHENED the roof . There are so many factors in structural strength and no one could predict the out come of changes made , As I have been in the motor industry for over 30 years I have seen many cases of cars cracking and other body problems and none of them had a sunroof fitted !!!!!

You are right I have fitted them here in NZ - they are done by Auckland Autotrimmers who fit the same roof as they fit in factory. It looks great and is only marginally different on the inside ie hood lining shape

[EfiJy]

Did you bother to read right through the post I put up ???? if removal of the roof brace was that critical to the integrity of the car it doesn,t say much for the design .before you jump in I would point out that some years back an independant engineering company did a structural test on a Holden Commodore and actualy found that the fitting of the sunroof actually STRENGTHENED the roof . There are so many factors in structural strength and no one could predict the out come of changes made , As I have been in the motor industry for over 30 years I have seen many cases of cars cracking and other body problems and none of them had a sunroof fitted !!!!!

is that why ford dont fit sunroofs to the territory

[sunny]

Roof can be fitted with RSR included . Howard

[SharifE]

I think a sunroof is one option i would insist on it being from the factory. i wouldnt go for an aftermarket one.

[DRAGON]

WTF?

Dont any of you realise that ALOT of new cars get their sunroofs fitted by the same people who fit after market sunroofs.

I've seen BRAND NEW Subaru and Ford's having sunroofs being fitted to them via an "aftermarket sunroof suppliers" If there was such a huge problem dont you think this would stop, and the sunroofs would be installed on the production line?

You also do know that in a majority of cars, fitting a sunroof actually INCREASES the strength/rigidity of the roof

[EXCESSV]

WTF?

Dont any of you realise that ALOT of new cars get their sunroofs fitted by the same people who fit after market sunroofs.

I've seen BRAND NEW Subaru and Ford's having sunroofs being fitted to them via an "aftermarket sunroof suppliers" If there was such a huge problem dont you think this would stop, and the sunroofs would be installed on the production line?

You also do know that in a majority of cars, fitting a sunroof actually INCREASES the strength/rigidity of the roofum not on the VE mate.
the sunroofs are done at factory as it is a different roof.
its not like the previoous commodore models of hitting it with a grinder by an aftermarket mob.

order a VE with a factory sunroof and it is FACTORY

[Wonky]

WTF?

Dont any of you realise that ALOT of new cars get their sunroofs fitted by the same people who fit after market sunroofs.

I've seen BRAND NEW Subaru and Ford's having sunroofs being fitted to them via an "aftermarket sunroof suppliers" If there was such a huge problem dont you think this would stop, and the sunroofs would be installed on the production line?

You also do know that in a majority of cars, fitting a sunroof actually INCREASES the strength/rigidity of the roof
WTF indeed....... That applied for previous Commodores but the VE is a different kettle of fish mate! VEs fitted with sunroofs on the assembly line get a specially designed and strengthened turret. If you get an aftermarket roof installed on a VE they have to try to duplicate that. At one stage there were statements floating around supposedly from Holden saying that they would not warrant a car fitted with an aftermarket sunroof for structural strength. Don't know how true that was.

[EfiJy]

WTF indeed....... That applied for previous Commodores but the VE is a different kettle of fish mate! VEs fitted with sunroofs on the assembly line get a specially designed and strengthened turret. If you get an aftermarket roof installed on a VE they have to try to duplicate that. At one stage there were statements floating around supposedly from Holden saying that they would not warrant a car fitted with an aftermarket sunroof for structural strength. Don't know how true that was.

same deal for toyota camry.last gen an d new gen

ford dont fit sunrood to territory bc it weekens the structre

[VQST80]

Holden use a different body shell if you want a sunroof.

[sunny]

Just to clear a couple of things here as safety technology improves in cars one area that has been addresed is side impact , the new standard is a Pole test which is where a simulation telegraph pole -tree impact is carried out at 29kmh . The idea is to have the same strength at the top of the "B" pillar area as is at the floor area . Most manufacturers have upgraded the strength of their roof cross braces to comply with this test . Webasto-Hollandia in Europe in conjunction with their Australian office regularly test cars and braces to assertain their crush rate , Whilst I can,t give exact figures the fitting of a sunroof with a replacement SIPS bracket {RSR} will in most cases exceed the strength of the standard roof brace . Now there are some new models cars that have a roof brace from hell , ie new Toyota Camry BMW3 Subaru Impreza , under no circumstances should the braces in these cars be removed for obvious reasons , but for cars like the VE the brace has been tested and removal to fit a sunroof with the RSR fitted will not compromise the strength . As for the Ford Territory the only reason that Ford don,t fit a factory roof is that because of the ribs in the turret skin the fitment of a roof would require a whole new turret redesign . Aftermarket can be fitted again with an RSR . As a final note the machine that is used to check crush rates in Europe was maxed out at 20,000 nm by the Toyota brace !!!!! most other models are much lower . Howard

[INASNT]

Holden use a different body shell if you want a sunroof.

How true is this???

When I was at Walkinshaw back in September last year getting my the walkinshaw suspension installed on my VE i got a tour of the HSV factory where all the HSVi mods are done to the VE's and it looked like the sunroofs were getting installed at HSV along with the other mods like the 20's.

[HSVMAN]

How true is this???

When I was at Walkinshaw back in September last year getting my the walkinshaw suspension installed on my VE i got a tour of the HSV factory where all the HSVi mods are done to the VE's and it looked like the sunroofs were getting installed at HSV along with the other mods like the 20's.

Not true. They fit a different roof brace if it having a sunroof installed.
That's why the Hollandia s/roof comes with a replacement brace

[Holden Man]

Just remember you can take it from car to car too :)>

Stick on sunroof (as sold on ebay)
http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/27862/2005972202074717785_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005972202074717785)

http://aycu23.webshots.com/image/27862/2005906692822670743_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2005906692822670743)

[Steakman]

:rofl::rofl::rofl:
Awesome!

[iloveholden]

haha nice one Holden Man.

Have you always been Validated or did that just happen?

[Holden Man]

..Have you always been Validated or did that just happen?

Happened today :dancenana: (There are some very nice members on here)
(it's hard to pick an avatar !)

[Wonky]

How true is this???

When I was at Walkinshaw back in September last year getting my the walkinshaw suspension installed on my VE i got a tour of the HSV factory where all the HSVi mods are done to the VE's and it looked like the sunroofs were getting installed at HSV along with the other mods like the 20's.

I believe just the turret is different so possibly they came down the assembly line with the correct turret and were sent to HSVi for final fitting of the sunroof??? :confused: Did they all already have the hole in the roof?

[INASNT]

I believe just the turret is different so possibly they came down the assembly line with the correct turret and were sent to HSVi for final fitting of the sunroof??? :confused: Did they all already have the hole in the roof?

Didnt look at them in that great detail.

[sunny]

Here,s an answer to your question guys Walkinshaws offer an "Aftermarket" Webasto-Hollandia 700 sereis sunroof to VE,s . The car that is delivered to them does NOT have a precut hole etc. They fit the same roof that is fitted by Authorised Hollandia dealers around Australia . HSV were trained by Webasto Tech staff , but remember people like myself and many others were fitting this brand of sunroof 20 years before HBD or HSV were.
We do know a lot about roof structure etc as we all have fitted litterally thousands of sunroofs beteween us around Australia . During the late nineties we were actually fitting sunroofs for Holden exclusivley for the Greg Norman International Statesman series .I personally fitted nearly fifty roofs for Holden in Queensland at the time in a very tight time frame . Just an insight here GM had too much imput from some sources within HSV at the time which resulted in quite a few problems that we had to fix after the cars were sold [Just look at the current debacle with the CV8Z Monaro. It seems that they cannot be told when they have a problem I know this from personal experience , we were told by GM and HSV staff how "THEY" wanted the roofs fitted which in some circumstances went completley against the manufacturers fitting guidlines .
Now the curent "Factory Fitted" sunroof in the VE was actually designed by Webasto for the Maserati all that had to be done to fit to the VE was to change the mounting points to correspond with the VE body shell . The sunroof for the Ve is bolted in the car with eight bolts along the sides and across the front . The way the car is made is that a standard roof skin is stamped prior to welding to the car with a hole in it . some additional brackets are also welded in at various points before the roof skin is attached , there is a "Prering" which is also welded under the hole this is what the actual sunroof bolts on to along with the side supports . you guys would be quite surprised how flimsy the sunroof frame is when its out of the car {I have removed one } Hope this helps clear up some questions for you all ,side line again I have two VE,s to fit roofs to next week already have done another one yesterday . Some more info here the current 700 series sunroof is actually glued in to the turret with a toughend acrylic glue , this is the same as is used by aircraft manufacturers to build wing structures it the glue has a shear strength of 3000lb per square inch so its pretty tough .This is why fitting of our sunroofs will in many cases exceed the manufacturers roof strength .HOWARD

[mustanger]

Thank you for your very informative post :cheers: John

[EfiJy]

Here,s an answer to your question guys Walkinshaws offer an "Aftermarket" Webasto-Hollandia 700 sereis sunroof to VE,s . The car that is delivered to them does NOT have a precut hole etc. They fit the same roof that is fitted by Authorised Hollandia dealers around Australia . HSV were trained by Webasto Tech staff , but remember people like myself and many others were fitting this brand of sunroof 20 years before HBD or HSV were.
We do know a lot about roof structure etc as we all have fitted litterally thousands of sunroofs beteween us around Australia . During the late nineties we were actually fitting sunroofs for Holden exclusivley for the Greg Norman International Statesman series .I personally fitted nearly fifty roofs for Holden in Queensland at the time in a very tight time frame . Just an insight here GM had too much imput from some sources within HSV at the time which resulted in quite a few problems that we had to fix after the cars were sold [Just look at the current debacle with the CV8Z Monaro. It seems that they cannot be told when they have a problem I know this from personal experience , we were told by GM and HSV staff how "THEY" wanted the roofs fitted which in some circumstances went completley against the manufacturers fitting guidlines .
Now the curent "Factory Fitted" sunroof in the VE was actually designed by Webasto for the Maserati all that had to be done to fit to the VE was to change the mounting points to correspond with the VE body shell . The sunroof for the Ve is bolted in the car with eight bolts along the sides and across the front . The way the car is made is that a standard roof skin is stamped prior to welding to the car with a hole in it . some additional brackets are also welded in at various points before the roof skin is attached , there is a "Prering" which is also welded under the hole this is what the actual sunroof bolts on to along with the side supports . you guys would be quite surprised how flimsy the sunroof frame is when its out of the car {I have removed one } Hope this helps clear up some questions for you all ,side line again I have two VE,s to fit roofs to next week already have done another one yesterday . Some more info here the current 700 series sunroof is actually glued in to the turret with a toughend acrylic glue , this is the same as is used by aircraft manufacturers to build wing structures it the glue has a shear strength of 3000lb per square inch so its pretty tough .This is why fitting of our sunroofs will in many cases exceed the manufacturers roof strength .HOWARD
good post. good to now :)

[hbd]

hey. i fitted a sunroof to a VE. no problems at all. in my opinion, holdens will say anything to stop competition. if webasto say it can be done then it can be done.

[craig_perth]

Can you have one fitted to a Captiva? I wonder if you can? They get body roll when off road and get bounced arround...

Oh I have a MAXX, the other models come with the roof as an option... but would love a roof in my MAXX... what your saying sounds perfect for the maxx!!



Hi every one sorry to butt in on your thread but there are a couple of discrepancies in your statements about aftermarket sunroofs for VE's.
First thing once a VE has left the factory it CANNOT go back and have a sunroof fitted - it can only have one fitted aftermarket.
The reasons given by GMH were that they could not reccommend fitting aftermarket because they had not tested one with an aftermarket roof installed . The previous model had been tested.
Now, Webasto-Hollandia have issued a release that may help if you are interested in fitting a roof aftermarket. To cut a long story short, Webasto AG manufacturers of the Webasto-Hollandia range of sunroofs have offered to its customers the same 3 year warranty relating to product faults.
Also a Product Liability Insurance to AU$20,000,000 underwritten
{a}worldwide by insurance consortiums and
{b}in Australia by QBE Mercantile Mutual covers both product failure and installation failure providing installation was made by webasto certified installers. This would surely satisfy any ones concerns.
Now as for roof braces etc there is a cross brace running from side to side NOT front to rear , the bulge in the lining is really only cosmetic as it keeps a standard roof trim from sagging . The cross brace is now made from a higher tensile strength steel it is designed to better resist side impact loads . When we fit an aftermarket Webasto-Hollandia sunroof to a VE or other model car etc, a bracket called an RSR is fitted to the sunroof housing it is designed so that it maintains the same side impact rate as the standard brace .
Unfortunatley Holden dealers have been reluctant to fit aftermarket but they are coming around . I also believe that Walkinshaws are offering the Webasto roof as part of their upgrades . Regards Howard Thrift, East Coast Sunroofs Qld
PS we have done quite a few VE's and Statesmans already. Webasto sunroofs are available in most states of Australia from authorised installers .

[Bigdaddy4567]

Hey guys dont be fooled. I bought on of those stick on sunroofs on Ebay and it LEAKED!

[350VZ]

:rofl:Can I just say that Stealty TT has the best avatar i've ever seen. Love it!!!