GTS, GTP & Force 6

[SV805]

Mate of mine is looking to buy new car. Ford fan totally, but convinced him to at least try a GTS first before purchase. So today we both went and Drove GTS (M6) GT-P (A6) & Force 6 (A6).

Pretty good day at work I reckon.

ANy way results/my impressions. GT-P Overpriced and slow revving, but great sound track. Heavy steerer and driving position makes you feel like you are sitting on it rather than it it.
Force 6 - Surprised me with how well the turbo and Auto work in harmony and keep it on boost and just wanting to go faster. Same issues with driving position and feels heavier than my current ride SS VE (M6)

GTS- Spins freely to redline and good torque down low, lighter steering, clutch and just feels more nimble than the 2 fords. (Might be due to being farmilar)

Enf ersult was good day at work - and havn't quite got him to change camps yet. As I have a tune in mine the GTS was actually a bit slower than mine, but wholly dooly the Brakes are way better and definately a major immediate improvement. Having said that I still thought the Premium brakes on the GTP 6 piston front and 4 piston rears felt more progressive and felt better and the ABS kicked in latter than teh GTS.

I couldn't see the benefit with a fairly short ride of the MRC so he will probably get an r8 with leather if he goes RED.

Definately wouldn't get the GTP especially for the Money, but if I ever got an Auto the Force six was very impressive.

Just my thoughts

[TLX]

Yep...a good days work i say!.

Interesting re thoughts on brakes. With MRC on the GTS stops surperbly and i reckon their the ducks guts:yahoo:

Keep working on ya mate to change camps;)

Tully

[Piffs]

What about an SS-V and then spend the change on tune, zorst and CAI? Looks great, and would go better than the Clubbie, if thats the way ur mate is thinking of going. And also, he would have change!

[Souljah]

Or if he wants to stay with the Blue Oval, why not just buy a GT? Same car as the GT-P but without all the frilly bits to weigh it down. Has he considered taking a Typhoon for a spin? I think he'd be very suprised ;)

**edit** I just re read and i seen that you drove the Force 6. Im presuming thats just a luxo Typhoon..??

[Alex81]

If he likes the Force 6 why not go the F6 Typhoon same car with out all the wood grain and crome mirrors

[Road Warrior]

I too wouldnt choose a GTP over a GTS. Not for the money. I reckon HSV has all its ducks in a row as as far as V8's go.

But I would definitely go for the F6 over the stupid Force 6. Could even go for the F6 over the GTS too but that would depend on $$$, amongst other things...

[VZ HSV #1]

Whats the on road price comparrison over the 3 x cars??

Scotty

[SV805]

Yeh, Woud definately go just Normal F6. Force 6 was the only demo they had. He was 100% sure he wanted a manual until he drove the Auto F6....He started thinking his wife might be happy to drive it.....Another reason I said to stay with the manual........

Havn't got full quotes back yet from the Fords......He won't get a GTP....Was thinking baout the 40th Anniversary GT but was told yesterday that all had sold already 200 in total.

He is now deciding this morning after getting pricing between R8 with Leather or GT with Leather and Brake upgrade.......GT will be more so might still change camps.

[matt.vzss]

if he is gunna stay at the blue camp definately go fot the typhoon over the GT. My brother has one and they are a very good car. IMO the new Force 6 & 8 are a total waste of money for the differences you are getting. 10k more for the force with no real improvements is a bit far fetched me thinks.

[Danv8]

Yup the F6 is def the pick of the FPV range.
But lack of the V8 grumble you can see why some would opt for the GT.

But the HSV GTS is a stoking machine and I would love one.
:)

[nang3]

If he likes the Force 6 why not go the F6 Typhoon same car with out all the wood grain and crome mirrors

yeh no shite, get the phoon and spend the diff on some mods and he'd eat anything on the road just about... or even spend a grand on an edit and have a mid-low 12sec phoon

[blackbettyhsv]

sv805 I read the currant hsv's stop from 100 kph to zero in 36 metres, are the brakes like that on the gtp you talked about, if your mate wears shorts a lot like me, talk him out of leather. wish I never got it too hot on the legs after sitting in the sun for a while. sounds like you guys had some fun test driving though!!!!!!!

[Super Snake]

The 40th anniversary GT caught my eye. They are only releasing 200 of them.
At 65k, that's not bad. As far as the F6, well it is a 6 cylinder. Nothing beats the rumble of the V8.

[nang3]

The 40th anniversary GT caught my eye. They are only releasing 200 of them.
At 65k, that's not bad. As far as the F6, well it is a 6 cylinder. Nothing beats the rumble of the V8.

haha but nothing beats seeing a loud angry awesome sounding V8 get whupped by a relatively quiet 6cyl mwahaha.. just stirring.. my next car will be some kinda V8 + turbos me thinks.. cant live without the turbo sound/rush

[Belzey]

sv805 I read the currant hsv's stop from 100 kph to zero in 36 metres, are the brakes like that on the gtp you talked about, if your mate wears shorts a lot like me, talk him out of leather. wish I never got it too hot on the legs after sitting in the sun for a while. sounds like you guys had some fun test driving though!!!!!!!

Exactly why I did not option leather this time around, we had it on our last 2 cars and it was just way too hot for kids as well cause their little legs sit right on the seats..

As for that Force6 its price tag is a huge turn off..

[JimmyXR6T04]

my vote would have been on the phoon :thumbsup: seems like most people here agree on that, they really are a sweet car. Especially considering he's a blue oval fan, and not restricted to wanting a V8, then i think the F6 would be ideal. Plus, as others have mentioned, a couple of grand will see a very quick car, especially when coupled with the 6sp auto.

[BadMac]

my vote would have been on the phoon :thumbsup: seems like most people here agree on that, they really are a sweet car. Especially considering he's a blue oval fan, and not restricted to wanting a V8, then i think the F6 would be ideal. Plus, as others have mentioned, a couple of grand will see a very quick car, especially when coupled with the 6sp auto.

Big problem is that its such an old shape, and in less than a year will be really outdated. I mean you spend all that money on a F6 and you get a 5 year old BA. The VE is much fresher, buy it then get an Orion F6 in 2-3 years. Best of both worlds, also if ture and Orion F6 is 300Kw you get HP with full facory warenty.

Note the above is my opinion and exactly what I have donw, although I will be comparing F6 Orion and VF R8/GTS when my R8 is due to be replaced. Oh its good to not wear any brand blinkers.

[JimmyXR6T04]

Big problem is that its such an old shape, and in less than a year will be really outdated. I mean you spend all that money on a F6 and you get a 5 year old BA. The VE is much fresher, buy it then get an Orion F6 in 2-3 years. Best of both worlds, also if ture and Orion F6 is 300Kw you get HP with full facory warenty.

Note the above is my opinion and exactly what I have donw, although I will be comparing F6 Orion and VF R8/GTS when my R8 is due to be replaced. Oh its good to not wear any brand blinkers.

good idea mate :thumbsup: that's the exact reason why i haven't upgraded to a BF yet.. not much has changed apart from the 6sp auto. Also, if you upgrade to the orion in 2-3yrs all the little bugs should be sorted.. as we all know, the first series in any car is bound to have bugs and problems!!

I can't wait to see what the '08 Falcon is like... if it's no good, at least we (ford fans) have the option of the VE, which is a tough car!.. we're pretty lucky here in Australia, pretty decent performance cars, at pretty decent prices. I'm like you mate, i'm not 100% loyal to either brand.. it's a shame that so many are!! so many people are brain washed :p

[HOT VE SS]

how about 40th ann GT falcon.. $70k
200 only to be built and will hold its value.

[nang3]

yeh the 40th GT's look farken nice but dont have a whole lot more shizzle than the stockers.. paint, wheels, suspension and Ltd Ed'ness are the only diffs tho..
A well engineered blown one would be the ducks cojones !

[BadMac]

how about 40th ann GT falcon.. $70k
200 only to be built and will hold its value.

BA with yet another new sticker set. FPV performance upgrades = new stickers.

Also I think its sold out. Ford have other stickers and badges specials coming this year to try and maintain some interest in their product whilst the faithful wait for Orion (stem the flow to VE). They better be concentrating on making Orion the best ever.

[JimmyXR6T04]

BA with yet another new sticker set. FPV performance upgrades = new stickers.

Also I think its sold out. Ford have other stickers and badges specials coming this year to try and maintain some interest in their product whilst the faithful wait for Orion (stem the flow to VE). They better be concentrating on making Orion the best ever.

Let's hope so.. I'm hanging out for orion, but i'm not too fussed yet, as i still like the BF F6 6sp auto, and the SSVs are a nice bit of gear too.. i'm waiting though!

[SV805]

sv805 I read the currant hsv's stop from 100 kph to zero in 36 metres, are the brakes like that on the gtp you talked about, if your mate wears shorts a lot like me, talk him out of leather. wish I never got it too hot on the legs after sitting in the sun for a while. sounds like you guys had some fun test driving though!!!!!!!

yeh he wanted a 40th Aniiversary as he thought it wopuld hold its value better when the Orion arrives. He is happy with leather as any spills just wipe off and he wears longer leg pants ..no issue.

It would be interesting to see the stopping distance of the premium brakes on GT as they just felt better then the GTS still great)

Anyway I think he has decided on a GT with Leather premium brakes and a rip to Bob Romano to see what he can do to the slow revving GT...Still sounds great.

[JimmyXR6T04]

yeh he wanted a 40th Aniiversary as he thought it wopuld hold its value better when the Orion arrives. He is happy with leather as any spills just wipe off and he wears longer leg pants ..no issue.

It would be interesting to see the stopping distance of the premium brakes on GT as they just felt better then the GTS still great)

Anyway I think he has decided on a GT with Leather premium brakes and a rip to Bob Romano to see what he can do to the slow revving GT...Still sounds great.

I saw a GT being tuned when i first got my edit.. he had exhaust, throttle body, CAI and a few other goodies.. he got 250rwkw... then the tuner put my car on, first tune uploaded, it pulled 257rwkw (no other mods except K&N filter, CAI) he de-tuned it to 251rwkw (safer AFRs). Ahh, the poor GT driver looked a bit stunned.. his car still sounded and looked better though ;) Not sure what was up with his car though, as i'm sure it should have pulled more then that.. Considering it had 290fwkw to begin with.. i dunno.

They're still great cars, just need a bit to get them moving! Love the sound of them though.

[Brendo84]

my mate has a f6 and he is much quicker than me mainly from me slow gear changes...

he has been looking at a dump pipe tune and bigger injectors and has been told 315rwkw (no exhaust needed) for about $4.2k

on me ss would need exhaust and head / cam or a stroker kit too get this sort of power, probly more than $8k for h / c and more than $10k for stroker

[CarlFST60L]

I would take the R8 any day, Sonny to do Tune and CAI and pullyed near on 270kwrw with unreal average toruqe gains! I had a go with another R8 and i pulled away convincenly with just those mods.

I would personally wouldnt choose the F6 over the R8 for the following:

From a circuit racing point of view, turbos get hot after a few laps and loose most of their power... While they are great for 500m i do admit!
R8 has massive brakes, perfect for circuit racing (36m from 100km/h to 0km/h is quicker than a lambo or BMW M5)
CAI and Tune got me ~270kwrw, 100% reliable, and pretty constant with temp i.e. run your F6 for 10 runs in a row and see what power you have, the R8 will still have 255kwrw or more
Rides better, smoother over bumps
The R8 comes with 275mm rears to get the power down
Its a new chassis that works really well, great package
Safer car, meets all the latest saftey standards
Loves the circuit more, not sure of comparitive lap times in stock form?
R8 Looks sexy as!
The price is right!
And i just have one :lol:

I reakon a CAM in the R8 would do around 300kwrw, and have that power usable far more than a F6 i.e. heat is no issue.

[Freaky]

From a circuit racing point of view, turbos get hot after a few laps and loose most of their power... While they are great for 500m i do admit!
R8 has massive brakes, perfect for circuit racing (36m from 100km/h to 0km/h is quicker than a lambo or BMW M5)

Is that why in pcoty the GTS overheated after afew laps. They said something along of the lines of the oil got to temperatures where it would stop working.

They then mentioned they could belt the phoon around the track all day long.

I wanted big brakes on mine, I optioned the brembo 6pot fronts/4pot rears. I punish them and cant make them fade.

[CarlFST60L]

Is that why in pcoty the GTS overheated after afew laps. They said something along of the lines of the oil got to temperatures where it would stop working.

They then mentioned they could belt the phoon around the track all day long.

I wanted big brakes on mine, I optioned the brembo 6pot fronts/4pot rears. I punish them and cant make them fade.

I've done about 50 laps of wakefeild in my E R8 mate, no problems at all... laping average was 1:15, and it was 38C. Im still yet to know a F6 driver that dosnt say that they loose power after a lap and it goes back to more like standard power levels... Its diffrent when you are actually at the track talking to people while they are racing... On the forums everything is 'so much quicker' :lol:

[NickS]

R8 has massive brakes, perfect for circuit racing (36m from 100km/h to 0km/h is quicker than a lambo or BMW M5)

I have only ever seen the 36m stated in relation to the GTS and they say it's that good because of the MRC which stops the nose diving ... I wonder if the R8 is just as good ???


I've done about 50 laps of wakefeild in my E R8 mate, no problems at all... laping average was 1:15, and it was 38C. Im still yet to know a F6 driver that dosnt say that they loose power after a lap and it goes back to more like standard power levels... Its diffrent when you are actually at the track talking to people while they are racing... On the forums everything is 'so much quicker' :lol:

There was an XR6T at the dyno day on the weekend, everyone had 3 runs back to back, basically every car pulled consistant numbers over the 3 runs, a few even picked up a bit on each run. XR6T went 235 ... 225 ... 215 ... now tell me that heat doesn't affect the turbos !!!

[VYII_R8]

I've done about 50 laps of wakefeild in my E R8 mate, no problems at all... laping average was 1:15, and it was 38C. Im still yet to know a F6 driver that dosnt say that they loose power after a lap and it goes back to more like standard power levels... Its diffrent when you are actually at the track talking to people while they are racing... On the forums everything is 'so much quicker' :lol:

Mate, what date was your visit to Wakefield? I just want to check the maximum temperature for that date as I think it's highly unlikely that it was 38 degrees. Sorry. As you yourself said.... "On the forums everything is 'so much quicker'".

No offence intended mate, I'm just curious, and more than happy to be proved wrong.

Cheers.

[NickS]

Mate, what date was your visit to Wakefield? I just want to check the maximum temperature for that date as I think it's highly unlikely that it was 38 degrees. Sorry. As you yourself said.... "On the forums everything is 'so much quicker'".

No offence intended mate, I'm just curious, and more than happy to be proved wrong.

Cheers.

Have you ever been to Wakefield ... it can get bloody hot !!! Also ... 38 degrees may have been the track temp ???

Justice R8 was there with him, if you are really worried about it PM him and ask.

[VYII_R8]

Have you ever been to Wakefield ... it can get bloody hot !!! Also ... 38 degrees may have been the track temp ???

Justice R8 was there with him, if you are really worried about it PM him and ask.


Yes I have been to Wakefield. I used to live in Sydney before I moved to Perth for work. I'm not really worried either, and I don't need to ask Justice R8 if they were there! I wasn't ever doubting that they went to Wakefield! I just wanna know the date LOL!

As I said, just curious. ;)

Cheers.

[CarlFST60L]

Mate, what date was your visit to Wakefield? I just want to check the maximum temperature for that date as I think it's highly unlikely that it was 38 degrees. Sorry. As you yourself said.... "On the forums everything is 'so much quicker'".

No offence intended mate, I'm just curious, and more than happy to be proved wrong.

Cheers.

:lol: im really just a keyboard warrior, ive never raced a lap in my life, ive never even seen or heard of an F6 :lmao: (yes, thats sarcasim)

It was late Jan (middle of summer), the car had 999km on the clock on arrival to the main straight. There is some threads around on it, video's on youtube and the like. And i remeber Darren ringing me besause of the plague of flys.. .The outside temp was reading 38ish from around 11 to 12pm from memory... It was a hot day for what is normally a cold and windy track

Hey, check this out, a VY II R8, BA and E Series R8 all in a row (they were all infront of me the lap b4 :stick:)

Dam those yellow plates were so ugly!
http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/Carl/IMG_3107.sized.jpg


(Nick, we should have a play RE your braking, i think there would only be cm in it)

[NickS]

(Nick, we should have a play RE your braking, i think there would only be cm in it)

Good idea ... I'd be up for that, next trip to Wakefield maybe.

:thumbsup:

[BadMac]

NZ Autocar did test R8 and GTS braking (different issues) and there was only a few cm in it, both better than M5 (V10 one). The R8 suspension is setup at about the performance setting of GTS. MRC advantage is it can change (Track) and respond to loads, ie stopping nose driving under brakes. Under normal conditions its a close thing. GTS with a slight advantage. On the track GTS pulls out its big guns (1-2 secs per lap quicker), R8 is a good above average car. I love mine.

[CarlFST60L]

NZ Autocar did test R8 and GTS braking (different issues) and there was only a few cm in it, both better than M5 (V10 one). The R8 suspension is setup at about the performance setting of GTS. MRC advantage is it can change (Track) and respond to loads, ie stopping nose driving under brakes. Under normal conditions its a close thing. GTS with a slight advantage. On the track GTS pulls out its big guns (1-2 secs per lap quicker), R8 is a good above average car. I love mine.

Thanks for that update!

Im really suprised about the 1-2 seconds a lap quicker! i suppose atleast nick might hav ea chance of keeping up now :stick:

Can anyone else confirm this 1-2 seconds a lap??? If i had have known this earlier, i would have honestly put up some more cash for a GTS... 2 seconds a lap quicker is a really big number for a lap, i would have thought around EC about 0.4/0.6seconds and wakefield 0.3 to 0.5 seconds a lap quicker (all else being equal)...

[JimmyXR6T04]

I have only ever seen the 36m stated in relation to the GTS and they say it's that good because of the MRC which stops the nose diving ... I wonder if the R8 is just as good ???



There was an XR6T at the dyno day on the weekend, everyone had 3 runs back to back, basically every car pulled consistant numbers over the 3 runs, a few even picked up a bit on each run. XR6T went 235 ... 225 ... 215 ... now tell me that heat doesn't affect the turbos !!!

Yeah the heat does affect the Ts.. mind you, some are set up pretty well, and the heat doesn't play a major part. I've seen some do back to back runs with a few kw in it.

Mine went 304rwkw, 295rwkw then 288rwkw.. That was with the bigger intercooler too.. It was explained to me though, that due to it being a mail order tune, the tuner pulled out a bit of timing/boost to ensure afrs remained safe during hot and spirited driving. Mind you, the airflow on a dyno is nothing like that on the road.

[BadMac]

Thanks for that update!

Im really suprised about the 1-2 seconds a lap quicker! i suppose atleast nick might hav ea chance of keeping up now :stick:

Can anyone else confirm this 1-2 seconds a lap??? If i had have known this earlier, i would have honestly put up some more cash for a GTS... 2 seconds a lap quicker is a really big number for a lap, i would have thought around EC about 0.4/0.6seconds and wakefield 0.3 to 0.5 seconds a lap quicker (all else being equal)...

Give them both to the Stig. I can't prove the numbers but I read them once in a mag and also back around Launch time Holden/HSV quoted they got between 1 and 2 secs on some test track during their testing. If I remember correctly, it was put forward as one of the reasons why GTS didn't need more power. Its suspension give it a little help, so it was slightly more compitent than an R8.

[M&Ms]

R8 has massive brakes, perfect for circuit racing (36m from 100km/h to 0km/h is quicker than a lambo or BMW M5)

But 36m is not quicker than:
Audi RS4: 32.36m
Subaru Impreza Sti: 32.33m
FPV F6 Typhoon: 35.68m
Chrysler 300C SRT8: 35.78m

Well, not according to NZ Autocar magazine July 2006. Heres a scan of the test article, click on the last one (page 7) to see the specs and test data.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page1.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page2.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page3.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page4.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page5.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page6.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page7.jpg

Also note that the Typhoon doesn't have the GTP's bigger brakes, just the standard ones that come on the lower FPV cars.


Article scan taken from Subaru Owners and Enthusiasts Club New Zealand:

http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14065&sid=1f12443418d6e4ed3e14ee3620ac652b

[CarlFST60L]

But 36m is not quicker than:
Audi RS4: 32.36m
Subaru Impreza Sti: 32.33m
FPV F6 Typhoon: 35.68m
Chrysler 300C SRT8: 35.78m

Well, not according to NZ Autocar magazine July 2006. Heres a scan of the test article, click on the last one (page 7) to see the specs and test data.

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page1.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page2.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page3.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page4.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page5.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page6.jpg

http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~justin.menga/S204-page7.jpg

Also note that the Typhoon doesn't have the GTP's bigger brakes, just the standard ones that come on the lower FPV cars.


Article scan taken from Subaru Owners and Enthusiasts Club New Zealand:

http://www.clubsub.org.nz/forums/viewtopic.php?t=14065&sid=1f12443418d6e4ed3e14ee3620ac652b

Why do the boys in NZ get all this great info, MOTOR?

Good to see the F6 outbreaks the R8/GTS, this i am very suprised about :thumbsup:

Again, like i said, these massive brakes are perfect for circuit work as there is literally never a hint of fade...

[mustanger]

Some of those performance figures are all over the place.

For example. STI 0-100k 4.6sec, figures from latest MOTOR MAG reads 5.4

SRT8 0-100k 5.79 , figures from latest MOTOR MAG reads 5.2

There are big descrepancies there already and there are also many other variables that need to be looked at.......:teach:

[Freaky]

Why do the boys in NZ get all this great info, MOTOR?

Good to see the F6 outbreaks the R8/GTS, this i am very suprised about :thumbsup:

Does aynone have any liturature of how quick one stops with the upgraded brembo package ?

I have driven an F6 with standard brakes and they are nothing on the upgraded option. I would imagine stopping distance would be even better.


Some of those performance figures are all over the place.

For example. STI 0-100k 4.6sec, figures from latest MOTOR MAG reads 5.4

SRT8 0-100k 5.79 , figures from latest MOTOR MAG reads 5.2

There are big descrepancies there already and there are also many other variables that need to be looked at.......:teach:

different days, different conditions.

[SV805]

Don't forget the NZ Exchange rate. If there money is worth less then may be ther times and distances are worth less as well.

[CarlFST60L]

Don't forget the NZ Exchange rate. If there money is worth less then may be ther times and distances are worth less as well.

:lmao: :driving:

[mustanger]

I might go and get some Subaru brakes for the GTS :lmao: :hide: