GM [Aus] As Bad As BLMC [Aus]?

[robmcg]

I've got a VX Calais International.

Sweet car, but too noisy on my local Canterbury roads. Mostly 100km/hr cruise.

here is a paste from another gripe by me! <g>

>>I've had VR VS VT cars 3.8 and 5.0. All were quieter than this VX Calais International, even the VS with 17s.. but there's not a lot in it.\\

I've also had Jaguars old-and-newish [XK40 3.6]

Given that some overethusiastic? magazine-writers have compared Holden full-spec cars to Euros, well, my VX looks mint at 90K and has had factory servicing all its life and tyre-rep tells me it's "normal", so maybe I'm missing something? I haven't driven a BMW 540i of slightly more years ex-Japan which I could have had for the same price [nz$25k]\

I'M NOT UNHAPPY but I'm never content.

Just got a feeling that this strong, straight, marvellous VX [stock though it is] has a bit of subtelty hidden in its engineering, and mass-production sound-deadening ain't one its strong points.

Getting an Aussie car 'right' reminds me of getting Lucas distributors and SU carburettors 'right'.

I used to ride 70s Britbikes, and don't mind tinkering, and I used to admire Aussies for even getting the 4-sp auto BMC Mini to work. At least I got it to work [para T5 hand controls]... and I could go on; 12G295 head or 12G940 and suitable cam-breathing...
GM have got the VR-VZ body for so long now, you would have thought they could have got 17" alloys and tyres and a rather noisy bodyshell to live together?

Or are they made of the same stuff as BLMC were?<<

I love the LS1 and think it a work-of-art, and the 4L60E is strong and good.

I'm sure the LS2 and 6-speed will be better.
But for now, much as I like the VX handling, shape, ride, body [ooh... sounds like something in a dress...] I want something with a bit less noise.

<g>

I have tinkered with no cats [legal here] and a cylindrical biggish rear straight-through box and it's still good, the performance improvements are mostly in my head. Drone was bad without something at the tail. It 'feels' stronger over 3,000rpm with less backpressure, and it's still on factory ECU.
I'm wary of serious free-flow, inlet or exhaust, when it comes to everyday driving.

Must be my 56 years...

My feeling is that HSV and factory have done the good tests, and mods are pretty minimal compared to BLMC days when it was all a lottery. That's not to say it cannot be improved, power or sound insulation [so I can turn the radio down].

I dunno what a BA XR8 might manage, but I don't like their engine NOR the heavy BA body. The VX body is pretty awful for resonance, as was my VT SS.

A 73 XJ6 walks all over it.

Rob [NZ]

[matthewfnorbert]

rob i have driven a friends ex jap 540i in canty .... simply awesome ride over those roads. the 540i electrics, well thats another story for euros a few years old. i cant believe how cheap decent jap import cars are in nz

[`redoctober]

If you don't like it, why did you buy it? If you don't want it, sell it.

If you're happy with it, why complain? You didn't shell out $100k+ for a European exotic so don't expect it to be of those standards. :p

[r8ls1]

How cheap? :lmao: http://www.autotrader.co.nz/used-car/BMW/760i/Waikato/820126.aspx




















































































obvioulsy they forgot to add a zero, i hope some unsuspecting bloke fall out they chair hahaha

[Danv8]

That $14,000 is the down payment on a class how to use the I-drive system.
;)

[robmcg]

rob i have driven a friends ex jap 540i in canty .... simply awesome ride over those roads. the 540i electrics, well thats another story for euros a few years old. i cant believe how cheap decent jap import cars are in nz

I would love to know if you sat in silence without conversation.

Everyone is different.

Best,

Rob

[Drewie]

My VX SS is very quiet inside, it has a very mild cat back system which you can just hear inside unless you are giving it a bit, the only noise in mine is a bit of tyre noise from the original Bridgestone B530's but you can only ever hear them at very low speed on suburban streets, I have had VC VL VN VR VT Commodores and my VX is probably the best and quietest of them all, very tight and not a rattle in it. It has only done 46,000km though.

ps: I have had quite a few new BLMC products over the years, many Minis and a few Cooper S's, so I know all about BLMC.

[robmcg]

If you don't like it, why did you buy it? If you don't want it, sell it.

If you're happy with it, why complain? You didn't shell out $100k+ for a European exotic so don't expect it to be of those standards. :p

a/ 25K is my chosen limit
b/ if you don't understand 'happy but not content', then I can only sigh with the same feeling of an older person who listens to violin played by a kid, and says, "I'm happy with that."... but ... but maybe...
c/ I'm talking about NZ$25K cars.

GM sold this car as 'luxury' and at 6 years and good servicing it is NOT a quiet car.

Best

Rob

[Danv8]

My VX SS is very quiet inside, it has a very mild cat back system which you can just hear inside unless you are giving it a bit, the only noise in mine is a bit of tyre noise from the original Bridgestone B530's but you can only ever hear them at very low speed on suburban streets, I have had VC VL VN VR VT Commodores and my VX is probably the best and quietest of them all, very tight and not a rattle in it. It has only done 46,000km though.

ps: I have had quite a few new BLMC products over the years, many Minis and a few Cooper S's, so I know all about BLMC.

Yup when I had my VX SS it was a very quit running car.
My VY2 Calais had the same fault ;) until I put a half decent exhaust on it. Even still its not very loud I dunno cars that are too quiet is rather boring. ;)

[robmcg]

My VX SS is very quiet inside, it has a very mild cat back system which you can just hear inside unless you are giving it a bit, the only noise in mine is a bit of tyre noise from the original Bridgestone B530 but you can only ever hear them at very low speed on suburban streets, I have had VC VL VN VR VT Commodores and my VX is probably the best and quietest of them all,
very tight and not a rattle in it. It has only done 46,000km though.

Hey, I appreciate that reply.

I know I am being a bit fussy about road noise. Good to hear about the cat back system.
B530s are factory I think?
I kinda got rid of most tyre noise, to a point. Short of alignments and serious worry... the car is sweet and steers great and rides OK.

I guess I want better 'noise' generally and that's rather subjective/personal. My no cat [maybe like good cats] and free-flow rear box is also silent at low throttle, it's not far off flow for factory ECU and I'm hoping the factory open loop numbers will accomodate, in the rare WOT thing. It had terrible roar at 1,800-2000rpm with no rear box.

It's just as curious as picking SU needles ! <g>

Rob

[michaels1v8]

See now there is your problem...

What you need is a nice cat back exhaust and some extractors to cover up all the road noise...:thumbsup:

you know you want to :stick::D

[Jac001]

What tyres do you have on the VX calais?

I have found some tyres are much more noisy than others...

[planetdavo]

Bose make noise cancelling headphones....
Your main gain will be the quality of the tyres. Some are way better than others. Otherwise, remember that it is a Commodore with extra gear added. It has NEVER started from a proper luxury (expensive) vehicle to begin with. Compare it with the price of a similar Euro vehicle when new, and you might start to realise where your answers are.....

[robmcg]

What tyres do you have on the VX calais?



GT Radial HPZs. Had Bridgesone Potenza GIIs half worn at first.

235/45 ZR17s W

I'm only being a bit fussy I know...


Bose make noise cancelling headphones....
Your main gain will be the quality of the tyres. Some are way better than others. Otherwise, remember that it is a Commodore with extra gear added. It has NEVER started from a proper luxury (expensive) vehicle to begin with. Compare it with the price of a similar Euro vehicle when new, and you might start to realise where your answers are.....

Good point but the car was marketed as good, and yes, at the time it as made it was a lot cheaper at 2001 A$58K? than Euro performance equivalents of the time. Maybe its the coarse seal...?



I've worked as a contracter in local car factories in the 70s under have a fair understanding of some aspects of production lines... [groan] . So I am clutching at straws with the sound thing on what was a jazzed-up VX Calais.

Why should the VT-VZ bodyshell not have decent sound-proofing in a 'top-end' model?

It doesn't take much to put good stuff into medium-run. I'm wondering if VE will be anything more, because they sure haven't mentioned sound-proofing.

And what's with this "remember that it is a Commodore with extra gear added" stuff... ? We can build cars damn well and I'm proud of Aussie ability to make good cars.

I think the $-crunchers have compromised the VX International, and as with BLMC I'll have to do it better myself. 17" alloys 235s and silence

Sound-proofing ain't rocket science.

It was quieter in a friend's father's Austin Westminster.

And my $500 73 XJ6.
...neither of which wore 17" alloys

BTW wind-noise ain't perfect , door shuts are designed to go "thunk" but don't seal perfectly, and I could build quieter Norton twin with my eyes shut.

Yours,

a ghost of Bert Munro


How cheap? :lmao:


Get a life.

I thought this was a good forum.

Back to DIY.... [sigh]

Rob

CServe 'Cars' 1995-2000. AOL 'Cars' 2001-2005.

[britcar specialist Jags -A-series headwork Lucas unravelling]


See now there is your problem...

What you need is a nice cat back exhaust and some extractors to cover up all the road noise

you know you want to

Well, I know this is a sponsored site, but I am TRYING to get some sort of understanding of the music cars make. ...

As an EnZedder I'm already crippled, but the VX International makes ex-factory no sound of value. I have removed cats and slung a basic 'straight-through' rear, after the factory 2xcats 2xmufflers 2-1 Y ... and get nice sound under acceleration.

Might be of worth to some who live in NZ. GM cannot approve no cats. Probably it could go as well with cats... but my driving is mostly on the Canterbury Plains. The sound isn't very flash without cats... and it rattles on overrun and is metallic.

Rob

[planetdavo]

Good point but the car was marketed as good, and yes, at the time it as made it was a lot cheaper at 2001 A$58K? than Euro performance equivalents of the time. Maybe its the coarse seal...?

Why should the VT-VZ bodyshell not have decent sound-proofing in a 'top-end' model?

And what's with this "remember that it is a Commodore with extra gear added" stuff... ? We can build cars damn well and I'm proud of Aussie ability to make good cars.

It's all to do with COST!!!! Holden make a good product for the price, but that lower price means you are going to miss out on some of that rather expensive stuff that needs to be engineered into the car to begin with, like silence. Sound proofing materials can only do so much.
Remember that Caprice is Holden's "premium" model. Calais is the premium "Commodore". The only reason it's not called a Commodore is marketing based.
Realistically, unless a set of "comfort" based tyres can fix your noise issues, you don't have much choice than to buy the type of car you really desire, if it's affordable. One thing I can tell you though is that most "luxury" vehicles I've been in are also rather noisy on coarse chip roads in Aus too, and we're talking late model cars that are twice the price of the VX Calais when new!

[r8ls1]

Get a life.

I thought this was a good forum.

Rob
Take it easy buddy, was merely a joke on forum members, not directed towards you at all. Maybe you should get an idea before you post.

[nemesis5]

my International has always been quite quiet, moreso than the E46 and E34 i have (and definately quieter than the BA workhack i have now)
clearly it's alot 'louder' now with its modifications etc, but up until 80K it was only lowered and had a cam with an exhaust...so i'd suggest tyres also (i've always had Hankook HK104 and they're great for the $$$) :wave:

[robmcg]

My VX SS is very quiet inside, it has a very mild cat back system which you can just hear inside unless you are giving it a bit, the only noise in mine is a bit of tyre noise from the original Bridgestone B530's but you can only ever hear them at very low speed on suburban streets, I have had VC VL VN VR VT Commodores and my VX is probably the best and quietest of them all, very tight and not a rattle in it. It has only done 46,000km though.

ps: I have had quite a few new BLMC products over the years, many Minis and a few Cooper S's, so I know all about BLMC.

Thanks for that.

I hope the BLMC cars haven't hurt your hearing! <g> It might be that the coarse chip surfaces in Canterbury, together with the extreme mechanical silence of the VX has made tyre-roar quite noticeable.

The cat-back system sounds good [no pun inended]... but ever the Scotsman, I have installed a straight-through cylindrical rear box, and as is legal here [in a moment of rashness] replaced the cats with straight pipes. It is audible now, but silent inside except accelerating when it is very slightly 'tinny' at med-throttle [like the old FB flame thingy on the manifold] and a nice muted howl above that.

Fuel economy is great, still. I was worried about the double skin in the 02 sensor area, and possible damage to 02 sensors by welding about 2-3" away... We didn't use hammers. 95km/hr gives 8-9l/100kms depending on wind and gradient. 105km/hr nearer 10l/100kms. Power is still excellent but would need factory-style measures to know exactly. Better at higher revs throttle I suspect.

I had a 97 VT SS a few years back... with a S/C 3.8... and it was pretty good too. At 130K it was a bit rattly on bumps. and the drivetrain module was set to go out of lockup too easily at a touch of throttle at 90km/hr... in those days it was harder to fix things like that. Or I was dumber!

Thanks,

Rob


Realistically, unless a set of "comfort" based tyres can fix your noise issues, you don't have much choice than to buy the type of car you really desire, if it's affordable. One thing I can tell you though is that most "luxury" vehicles I've been in are also rather noisy on coarse chip roads in Aus too, and we're talking late model cars that are twice the price of the VX Calais when new!

Yes, I think you have it in a nutshell.

Maybe I'll throw on 15" steels with Yokohama 306s I have in the workshop if I cannot sleep!

Thanks.


my International has always been quite quiet, moreso than the E46 and E34 i have (and definately quieter than the BA workhack i have now)
clearly it's alot 'louder' now with its modifications etc, but up until 80K it was only lowered and had a cam with an exhaust...so i'd suggest tyres also (i've always had Hankook HK104 and they're great for the $$$) :wave:

Thanks for that. My feeling is that coarse-chip surfaces are a big part of it. The VX is very quiet on smooth seal.

I've heard good things about Hankook K-series. I had their K-106 225/50 VR16 on my VR Calais 5.0 and they were pretty good, and quiet, and as I understand it are their budget tyre.

I want my cake and eat it too.

Rob


Take it easy buddy, was merely a joke on forum members, not directed towards you at all. Maybe you should get an idea before you post.

I don't think questioning factory standards is bad.

Your post has a big blank page below a reference to local E-trader.

Rob