Is this acceptable? (Lease company conditions)

[ACT_Cross8]

Ok, here's my second whinge for the week...

The company I work for has just outsourced the management of it's novated leases to Elite Fleet. The first we heard about it was an email in late Feb telling us it was happening from 1st March. We were told to stop using our Corporate AMEX cards for fuel etc after 1st March and were given a Motorpass Card (which didn't arrive till 2 weeks later).

Anyhow, the problem is that the Motorpass Card is not accepted everywhere, but Elite Fleet have a manual process for being reimbursed where the card isn't accepted. Sounds fine, until you read the fine print on the reimbursement form:

"Please note that fuel purchased from Woolworths / Coles service stations and car washes will be declined for reimbursement:"

How can they dictate where I buy fuel from? Not only can I not use the 4c/L vouchers any more, all the Shell outlets in Canberra are Coles Express, so I effectively can't run V-Power in my car any more. I think it stinks.

Am I overreacting? Fair enough if it was a company car that they were paying for, but this is MY car, so I don't think they should be able to tell me what fuel I can and can't use.

[planetdavo]

This forum regularly tells people how good lease deals are for private vehicles, but the bigger picture is all in the fine print.
With a lease you never own the vehicle at any point unless you pay out the baloon figure, so they have numerous rights to control what you can and can't do.
Might suck, but that's life, unless you buy the car outright to begin with.

[swingtan]

That has got to suck. Now that Safeway has teamed up with Caltex and Coles with Shell, your new lease company has just shut out 2 major service station chains. There has to be a reason why they have done this, so give them a call and find out what the go is. Chances are that it's got something to with money somewhere. Either the lease company doesn't get enough of a discount from them or there is no way to track the discount price.

Me, I can only use Shell unless there are non available to fill up from. Then it's the "pay cash and claim back" process. Talking with them should clear things up, it sounds like they just have a crap PR process, tell them they can't do this but give no reason why. You may be able to work something out with them to make things easier, say if you pass 3 Shell servo's going to / from work but the next closest Mobil / BP it a 10km trip out of your way.

Last point, the wording you've used just says that they won't reimburse fuel purchased from Shell / Caltex ( Coles / Safeway ), so as long as they take the Motorpass Card, you should be right ( I'd test it first though ). It must be something to do with the receipts and the discounts.

[Bravotwozero]

I can only use Shell, Caltex and Ampol service stations. I can't use dockets either. But I can use V-Power, but generally I don't.

[NRD80Y]

I'm with SMB and they provide both BP and Caltex/Ampol cards but also allow manual reimbersment for when those two arent available (or when you forget your card :doh: ). I've submitted and received payback from Shell, Mobile and from a wide variety of carwashes

[loudvtss]

As Swingtan said that's a bit weird. I've leased 2 cars and haven't been told what fuel to use and what not to use. My brother who works for Coles Myer isn't allowed to use Premium fuel in his SV6. I guess that's probably a cost thing.

Personally I like paying for the fuel and claiming it back. I've got a GM Mastercard so the money I put on it goes towards a rebate. I spend about $3000 - $4000 per year on fuel. My current lease is 4 hrs so I'll manage to get a rebate of about $1,200 - $1,600 just from the fuel..

[Jac001]

How can they dictate where I buy fuel from? Not only can I not use the 4c/L vouchers any more, all the Shell outlets in Canberra are Coles Express, so I effectively can't run V-Power in my car any more. I think it stinks.

Am I overreacting? .

Are they ultimately paying for the fuel thru a rebate system?

If so, they decided what you can and can't buy as they are ultimately paying for it.

Inconveient ? Yes

Wrong and unfair? No.

[Devil CV8]

I have both a Mobil and a Shell with my SV6, exactly the same as every other Telstra vehicle. no premium allowed.........It's okthough, my fuel bill alone is more than the operating lease payments

:deal:

[ACT_Cross8]

Are they ultimately paying for the fuel thru a rebate system?


No, it's a novated lease, so all expenses, including the lease payments, come out of my salary (before tax).

I thought a novated lease meant that I own the car. Happy to be corrected.


Personally I like paying for the fuel and claiming it back. I've got a GM Mastercard so the money I put on it goes towards a rebate.

That's the other thing I am losing. I could use Fly Buys at Shell, plus I got Fly Buys points if I used my own credit card.

Anyhow, I asked Elite Fleet why they didn't allow it and got the following reply:


Initially, Woolworths/Coles sites were able to take the Motorpass card. However, post the take over by Caltex, the Motorpass cards are no longer accepted.

In an effort to minimise any out of pocket expenses and thereafter the cash claim process, Elite Fleet advise all clients to utiilise merchants who accept the designated Motorpass card.

Elite Fleet understand the confusion and inconvenience caused due to this arrangement and to that end, all fuel purchases incurred, prior to the issuance of the Motorpass card (regardless of where the fuel was purchased) will be honoured.

However, after issuance of the said Motorpass card, any fuel purchases from the Coles/Woolworths sites shall be declined for reimbursement.

I trust this advice is satisfactory...

No, not really satisfacory if you ask me. I have taken it up with my employer. I was meant to sign and agreement for the transfer to take place, but I'm holding off until I get a resolution that I am happy with.

[NewV8]

I bought my car and sold it to the lease company (BMW finance). BMW hold title but only until I pay the lease out in 5 years time.
Novate lease companys require you to pay for the car at the end of the lease. They will not take the car back at the end of the lease.
This means it's like any other loan...Just a lease has tax benifits.

I also have Telstra provided Mobil and Shell cards but because it's my car, I can choose to use premium fuel if I want.

[INASNT]

After reading the fine print on the lease for the new job I started a few months ago I also throught F*uck this and told the company to pay me the car allowance direct so I could get what car I wanted and do what I wanted to it when I wanted.

[Vulture]

I thought a novated lease meant that I own the car. Happy to be corrected.

You don't own the car unless you pay the lease company the residual at the end of the term.

[Devil CV8]

I also have Telstra provided Mobil and Shell cards but because it's my car, I can choose to use premium fuel if I want.

I have an operating lease, and with 109,000km and counting with 11 months to go, I'm laughing

[Alister]

Anyhow, the problem is that the Motorpass Card is not accepted everywhere, but Elite Fleet have a manual process for being reimbursed where the card isn't accepted. Sounds fine, until you read the fine print on the reimbursement form:

"Please note that fuel purchased from Woolworths / Coles service stations and car washes will be declined for reimbursement:"

I don't understand. All Coles Express servos accept Motorpass and Motorcharge. Since the beginning at Coles Express, all Motorpass transactions have been done using Motorpass manual vochures (click clack machines) but now we're rolling it out across the servos electronically. Seems like Elite Fleet are full of the shit.

[EL2]

I think your new leasing companies conditions are absurd ACT_cross8.

I salary package my SS through Rhodium (they used to be called Totalcare). I've got 4 fuel cards for BP, Caltex, Mobil and Shell. I use whatever fuel I like.

If I fill up in a servo that I don't have a fuel card for (eg United) I can claim a manual reimbursement from Rhodium immediately, or add it to the other things I claim at the end of the FBT year via my work (ie not Rhodium).

I reckon that's how it should be.

[Animal]

The reason that some leasing companies only allow you to use certain service stations is because they have an arrangement to get a rebate on the fuel for themselves ( eg, a 4c / litre discount of the bowser price )

If you don't use a service station that they have an agreement with, they lose money.

[ACT_Cross8]

If you don't use a service station that they have an agreement with, they lose money.

I suspect that is the real reason. If I can get them to admit that...


I don't understand. All Coles Express servos accept Motorpass and Motorcharge. Since the beginning at Coles Express, all Motorpass transactions have been done using Motorpass manual vochures (click clack machines) but now we're rolling it out across the servos electronically. Seems like Elite Fleet are full of the shit.

Sounds suspiciously like they are forcing me to use the Motorpass card so they get the discount and I don't. Think I will stand my ground on principle.

[Goggles]

Am I overreacting? Fair enough if it was a company car that they were paying for, but this is MY car, so I don't think they should be able to tell me what fuel I can and can't use.

are you overreacting? yes & no.

it maybe that there is an arrangement behind the scenes which means that the motorpass card is restricted to certain servos.

with my leased SS, I can only get fuel cards for caltex, shell and bp. I would prefer to use mobil. i am not restricted in which fuel I use which is good. I don't understand why you would be. if you had a L76 or L98 V8 - both of which require 98 octane, then it would be interesting to see how the leasing company would handle it. I suspect that the leasing company is ignorant. with my previous ss, my leasing company wouldn't let me get S03s as replacement tyres even though they are cheaper that the OE tyres. the Bridgestone dealer convinced them to let me get the S03s.

FWIW - my leasing company will not reimburse me for money spent on fuel if I forget to use my fuel cards.

in terms of owning the car, you sort of do. the lease is similar to other leases in that for you to truly own the car, you will need to pay the residual at the end of the lease, or hope that any sale price or trade-in would cover the residual.

[phat-dave]

problem is there is so much money made from leasing these days the micky mouse operators ie: greenfleet/elite fleet/total fleet/whateverfleet are dictating too many rules because many get too tied up with the emotions of buying a new car and forget about the terms and conditions or simply dont read them.

i have a fleet card which can be used at any service station but my fleet company recommends i use shell. the reason these fleet mobs recommend you use a particular brand is because they have an account with them which depending on the literage per month dictates a certain discount at the bowser and hence reduces their overall expenditure. most of us have an operating lease with costs predetermined at the start of the lease, so they will assume petrol of $1.50 anything below that is a bottom line profit.... hence the restrictions of where you can purchase petrol as this is the major fluctuating cost with operating fleet management / administration

[ACT_Cross8]

problem is there is so much money made from leasing these days the micky mouse operators ie: greenfleet/elite fleet/total fleet/whateverfleet are dictating too many rules because many get too tied up with the emotions of buying a new car and forget about the terms and conditions or simply dont read them.


I guess that's part of my gripe. I have yet to be given a look at any terms and conditions. We were just told that Elite were taking over our lease. I was told I had to sign a "package estimate" (that showed how much per month it was costing me) which Elite sent me and fax it back so the transfer could be effected, but that's it.

What if I don't sign it? My original novation was an agreement between myself and my employer, which I signed an agreement for. Can they transfer this to a 3rd party without my consent?

[swingtan]

When I got my VZ SS I spoke to the fleet company and ensured that at least 98RON fuel was enabled on the card. Since then I've found that it covers me for "all" petrol types. SO although I can only use the card at Shell, I can fill up with V-Power Racing :woohoo:. I'm on a fixed lease agreement, all costs included, no rebates at the end of the year. So while I can't "save" any money, I can't loose any more either. So if I drive down a dirt road and destroy all 4 tyres, I don't pay any extra ( mind you if I did it every 6 months they can decline to cover costs ).

I still think that with the wording given, it's only the reimbursement process that they are talking of. If the MotorPass card works at the counter, then you should be covered OK.

[CraigH]

Our corporate Lease Partner had a better scheme re Petrol, it would only accept regular gas no premium etc.

Even if the car they sourced would only run on 98 etc they would not accept that Fuel via their Petrol cards etc.

[phat-dave]

I guess that's part of my gripe. I have yet to be given a look at any terms and conditions. We were just told that Elite were taking over our lease. I was told I had to sign a "package estimate" (that showed how much per month it was costing me) which Elite sent me and fax it back so the transfer could be effected, but that's it.

What if I don't sign it? My original novation was an agreement between myself and my employer, which I signed an agreement for. Can they transfer this to a 3rd party without my consent?

in all honesty i dont know what you can do. although if it were me and the fleet company was simply unnegotiable and the terms and conditions had severely changed mid term, then I would contact your human resources department and organise a suitable time to surrender the vehicle to your local pickles/fowles whoever the fleet mob use.

typically this will get their attention and they'll want to all of a sudden negotiate

[Ghia351]

No, it's a novated lease, so all expenses, including the lease payments, come out of my salary (before tax).

I thought a novated lease meant that I own the car. Happy to be corrected.




Really a novated lease means that the lease agreement is between you and your lease company and that your employer agrees to make your payments in pre-tax dollars theoretically saving you depending on your individual situtaion, eg. personal income tax bracket and km travelled. Your employer benefits by not being stuck with the cars as it's not leased by them and you may get the benefit of vehicle choice and a discounted purchase price. As others have said, the car ownership does not transfer to you until the final residual is paid.

[VZSS_Freak]

Yes and No, i guess, Both my cars ( company leased ) are resticted by my lease company to Caltex, Safeway or ampol stations only, and will declined if you put premium unleaded in, to which one I day i found out, fortuantly my company reimbursed me the cost of the fuel. Mate, not less you look for another company, i think you stuck, cheers

[wablacksv8]

Really a novated lease means that the lease agreement is between you and your lease company and that your employer agrees to make your payments in pre-tax dollars theoretically saving you depending on your individual situtaion, eg. personal income tax bracket and km travelled. Your employer benefits by not being stuck with the cars as it's not leased by them and you may get the benefit of vehicle choice and a discounted purchase price. As others have said, the car ownership does not transfer to you until the final residual is paid.

Other benefits include your company paying the stamp duty and any GST on running costs as they have a ABN number and are able to claim it back and are real benefits of a Novated lease. Means your finance is minus stamp duty and budget is less gst also. All that happens at end of lease if you want to pay it out you have to pay GST on the residual payment.

My fuel card is actually in the name of my company and I get 4c/litre off std unleaded and 2.5c/litre off premium unleaded, arranged by the leasing company. I does benefit me and means I don't have to chase shopper dockets or need any cash or cedit cards of my own. Thru Holden service there is 20% discount on labour and parts are at trade similar for tyres at certain retailers as well. The benefits can add up.

[ACT_Cross8]

Well, turns out it's not as bad as I thought. I CAN use my Motorpass card at Coles Express, just not my own credit card with the vouchers and Fly Buys. I still miss out on the 4c/L discount, but at least choice of fuel is still available. Still stinks, but bearable I guess...

[planetdavo]

Well, turns out it's not as bad as I thought. I CAN use my Motorpass card at Coles Express, just not my own credit card with the vouchers and Fly Buys. I still miss out on the 4c/L discount, but at least choice of fuel is still available. Still stinks, but bearable I guess...
You should be thankful you even get a choice of fuel, based on other people's replies!

[HSVREDSLED]

Here is how my lease company works.

I have a few options.

1. I go to Caltex and get fuel. The price I pay for fuel is whatever is cheaper between

a) the pump price at that time (minus a few cents), or
b) the average pump price for the previous day (minus a few cents).

conversely,

I can take a 4c litre voucher to ANY servo, and tank up and submit the claim which gets reimbursed into my bank account.

At the end of the day, I couldnt be bothered with the calculations. Seeing as the savings are effectively halved anyway due to paying pre tax, I normally just fill up early in the week and pay whatever.