$5k for an Exhaust?

[Gonadman2]

Hi Guys,

Went to the local exhaust guy today to get a quote on a new exhaust. HM 4-1 extractors, High Flow cat's, Dual 3" Stainless exhaust with Manta mufflers (I've never heard of them), and wanted $5k for the lot! I laughed and then he said that he could do it for whatever I can get in Perth...

Just thought you would enjoy my little story.:rofl:

[OUTAtheBloo]

Perth Exhaust Centre (vic park) have been doing the manta exhaust for some years, Give them a ring, see how much they say. 5K is up there though !

Dan

[mustanger]

Hi Guys,

Went to the local exhaust guy today to get a quote on a new exhaust. HM 4-1 extractors, High Flow cat's, Dual 3" Stainless exhaust with Manta mufflers (I've never heard of them), and wanted $5k for the lot! I laughed and then he said that he could do it for whatever I can get in Perth...

Just thought you would enjoy my little story.:rofl:

Did you tell him ," you had the motor and you only wanted the exhaust system.":stick::p:lmao:

[Evman]

Maybe an near perfect custom exhaust would be worth 5 grand...Not a Manta. Manta is among the cheapest kit exhausts around.

[vyssbeast]

say 2K for catback in s/s .... 1200 for headers... 800 for fitting!!!??

That still leaves 1000 ... cats?

bit exxy

[mce]

Manta are the second oldest exhaust manufacturer in australia , they have been around for about 30 years , they are made here in WA , they make systems for a lot of well known speed shops and dealers with there own branding
They are made to a very high standard , where most manufaturers just use fibreglass , they use fibreglass and stainless steel wool which is more expensive to produce
you can always save some money and buy a cheaper chinese system its your money and your new pride an joy

[thnk_again]

yea but your in headland man....

[Belzey]

Manta are the second oldest exhaust manufacturer in australia , they have been around for about 30 years , they are made here in WA , they make systems for a lot of well known speed shops and dealers with there own branding
They are made to a very high standard , where most manufaturers just use fibreglass , they use fibreglass and stainless steel wool which is more expensive to produce
you can always save some money and buy a cheaper chinese system its your money and your new pride an joy


So 5k is not a big ask then? Pretty average?

[Gonadman2]

I really don't understand why my locale should justify extortion...

When I had an AU XR8 I had a mild steel cat back system made up for $450 and they were going to throw in extractor's for $1k. That was a few year's ago (2002) but I just don't know what has happened in between? How can exhaust companies seriously justify $5000 for what is essentially some bent pipe...

[saj]

Order a system from perth, get some one local to fit the headers then bolt the cats and rear part yourself. You should save yourself a fortune.

[mce]

look at it this way i just got this price from capa website

VE L98 V8 Commodore Sedan Twin 3" Exhaust, Stainless $ 2,695.00

VE L98 V8 HPC Coated Long Tube Performance Extractors (4-1) $ 1,294.00

Metal substate cats $900 for the pair

o2 extension $80.00 a pair and you need 2 pairs $160.00


which is $5049.00 supply only

[6.2L.Club]

Terry should know, l bought my twin 3" Manta system from him, as he said, it's a quality system and sounds farkin awesome, will get a recording and post it for you to hear when l can. If this guy can do it for what someone in Perth will do it for get MCE to give ya a quote? If you don't want to pay so much go mild steel, get cheap cats or no cats and your extractors, if you want quality, be prepared to pay for it

[saj]

look at it this way i just got this price from capa website

VE L98 V8 Commodore Sedan Twin 3" Exhaust, Stainless $ 2,695.00

VE L98 V8 HPC Coated Long Tube Performance Extractors (4-1) $ 1,294.00

Metal substate cats $900 for the pair

o2 extension $80.00 a pair and you need 2 pairs $160.00


which is $5049.00 supply only

So the point is what ? CAPA and the bloke in pt hedland are both theives.:)

[mce]

So the point is what ? CAPA and the bloke in pt hedland are both theives.:)

No all iam saying is you get what you pay for , if you go cheaper you either get chinese or a press bent system or a system that drones

[EXCESSV]

look guys before you start taking the piss out of terry or the exhaust place with the original quote for a VE V8....$5K is the price for a full exhaust system in 3".

the manta is a good quality system and considering your up north i got similar price from someone here local.

i have done my research for my SSV with over 6perth places plus a handful of places from over east...$5K is on the money...especially when you go stainless system and ceramic coating.

the accoustics of the VE system also make it hard to get a quality exhaust system that doesnt drone and has a good sound.

[SV8er]

No all iam saying is you get what you pay for , if you go cheaper you either get chinese or a press bent system or a system that drones


Terry i Heard that Perth Exhaust centre are selling the Power Sound Systems 2.5" Stainless , are these one of theirs or from China as someone also told me they are Australian Made ??

[mustanger]

Just do your research and shop around . KPM ,who are sponsors here, have on there website a full system ,stainless steel with cats for $3950....Cheers John

[RED R8]

I think the Xforce is chinese ,made in sweat shops cheap but cheerfull.

[6.2L.Club]

Terry i Heard that Perth Exhaust centre are selling the Power Sound Systems 2.5" Stainless , are these one of theirs or from China as someone also told me they are Australian Made ??

I can hear an upgrade comming Len :lmao:

[saj]

look guys before you start taking the piss out of terry or the exhaust place with the original quote for a VE V8....$5K is the price for a full exhaust system in 3".

the manta is a good quality system and considering your up north i got similar price from someone here local.

i have done my research for my SSV with over 6perth places plus a handful of places from over east...$5K is on the money...especially when you go stainless system and ceramic coating.

the accoustics of the VE system also make it hard to get a quality exhaust system that doesnt drone and has a good sound.

Your right, i shouldnt pull the piss out of terry. Darren [dazvyss] told me he's the man for my little exhaust job i need doing.

[mce]

Terry i Heard that Perth Exhaust centre are selling the Power Sound Systems 2.5" Stainless , are these one of theirs or from China as someone also told me they are Australian Made ??

i will find out tommorow for you

[EXCESSV]

Just do your research and shop around . KPM ,who are sponsors here, have on there website a full system ,stainless steel with cats for $3950....Cheers John
they quoted me$4100 for the full stainless 3" loud system plus postage and plus installation so when you add it up it nearly got close to $5K

Your right, i shouldnt pull the piss out of terry. Darren [dazvyss] told me he's the man for my little exhaust job i need doing.
the VE exhaust systems are across the board more expensive that the previous VT-VZ systems...why i dont know they just are...
but at the same time most of the ppl with VEs are going dual 3" and stainless steel hence the bigger cost

[SV8er]

i will find out tommorow for you

Thanks Terry


I can hear an upgrade comming Len :lmao:

Tim, if i could bolt yours straight onto mine then i would be in LUV:lmao::lmao::lmao:

[mustanger]

I suppose when you break it down $5 K might be justified ,when you take into account,new model development and research costs,freight,installation etc.etc. But when you tell the good wife you just spent $5k on an exhaust system, just for a bit more noise and performance :slap::nutkick::hide:

[Alex(AUS)]

5K!!!! For an exhaust!!! ... It doesnt matter how good qaulity the exhaust is ... we are talking steel pipes here!!! There really isnt that much engineering in it.

I think Mustanger made a very good point. You could buy the whole engine for not much more. I am sure that had some engineering input (slightly more than the pipes).

For 5K you could pretty much (or close) import a nice supercharger ... now that will give you a nice sound and a *small* performance improvement.

Alex

[Evman]

Manta are the second oldest exhaust manufacturer in australia , they have been around for about 30 years , they are made here in WA

Serious?? Man, I was told they were a cheap chinese brand. Bloody hell I can't stand friggin companies (APS here in WA in this case) that bullshit about other companies just to try and gain business. Bloody wankers, no other way about it.

[Wonky]

the VE exhaust systems are across the board more expensive that the previous VT-VZ systems...why i dont know they just are...
Extra rear muffler and tips accounts for a fair bit of it.

[Caprice270]

If selling bent pipe is so lucrative, its time a few more of us got in on this game and opened up our own workshops.

Then we could all:

- sell bent pipe for $5,000,
- ask for some of that in cash under the table;
- get massive tax deductions for our "work cars" (i.e. HSV GTSs and anything else in the HSV stable); and
- get more massive tax deductions for our "marketing activities" (i.e. racing).

The after-market modifiers, who we have to thank for this great website, did a great job in looking after their customers during the LS1 era, but something has happened since the VE was released that has seen exhaust prices sky rocket.

Wonky, an extra muffler and exhaust tips doesn't explain the massive increase in cost IMO. This is clearly a re-evaluation of the supply-demand curve in a booming economy, where finance is freely available and new car sales are at record highs. People are willing to pay $5,000 at current supply levels, and so bent pipe is selling as though it were made of gold.

[team illucid]

No all iam saying is you get what you pay for , if you go cheaper you either get chinese or a press bent system or a system that drones

Tell that to Sureflo.

[BOSSONNOS]

Terry is right about Manta being one of the oldest in W.A, and their systems definately aren't cheap and nasty, great quality and sound & 10 yrs warranty on SS, I've not had an issue in the last 8 years with any of thier systems.
(the CAPA exhaust advertised is also Manta)

[NickS]

Tell that to Sureflo.

You reckon a Sureflo dual 3 inch (stainless) with HPC coated headers and hi-flow cats with 4 stainless tips fitted to a VE would be much less than $5K ???

I doubt it ... that's just what it costs for the quality systems on the VE.

[Ridin-High]

look at it this way i just got this price from capa website

VE L98 V8 Commodore Sedan Twin 3" Exhaust, Stainless $ 2,695.00

VE L98 V8 HPC Coated Long Tube Performance Extractors (4-1) $ 1,294.00

Metal substate cats $900 for the pair

o2 extension $80.00 a pair and you need 2 pairs $160.00


which is $5049.00 supply only

COMMODORE VE V8 6LT 4 INTO 1 44MM PRIMARIES, Jet-hot coated $1037

Source Click (http://www.jet-hot.com.au/jh_direct.php?UEhwcmljZWxpc3QuY3N2)

Instant saving of $260 over capa. Their is no way i would pay $5,000 for zorst

[team illucid]

You reckon a Sureflo dual 3 inch (stainless) with HPC coated headers and hi-flow cats with 4 stainless tips fitted to a VE would be much less than $5K ???

I doubt it ... that's just what it costs for the quality systems on the VE.

I mean they can do cheap exhausts that don't drone ...

And I sure as hell would NEVER put a stainless steel system on any car.

[NickS]

I mean they can do cheap exhausts that don't drone ...

And I sure as hell would NEVER put a stainless steel system on any car.

Ahhh ... gotcha, sorry mate.

... and I sure as hell would NEVER put a mild steel system on any car.

:D

Each to their own I guess.

[BLACK 346]

I mean they can do cheap exhausts that don't drone ...

And I sure as hell would NEVER put a stainless steel system on any car.

Considering I have gone through about 6 different exhaust combos
in the last 2 years I would have to agree with you their Kurt :)
For what it is worth, I am yet to see any rust or degradation of
any kind on a mild steel exhaust on any of my cars.

[team illucid]

... and I sure as hell would NEVER put a mild steel system on any car.


I get bored with the sound so I like it to burn out within 3-4 years :)

then I get to try something else.



For what it is worth, I am yet to see any rust or degradation of
any kind on a mild steel exhaust on any of my cars.

Funny thing is our Pintara wagon muffler just burnt out and the barrel at the back literally fell apart :lol:

[SS Enforcer]

I'm with you guys $5000 is way too much for some pipe to dispose of burnt gases!!!

Atm because the VE's are new we are getting ripped off for almost everything we want to do to the car. Try buying any part for a VE and it's bloody expensive. You could get a decent cam including springs,tune and nearly a head job or a new diff for 5k. I refuse to pay that sort of bucks for an exhaust will keep the stock manifold for now as it flows very well . will put 4-1's later in the year though but won't be buying a 5k stainless system.

cheers

[mustanger]

I think we are just getting slightly off topic here. Yes there are good and bad systems,just like there are good and bad installers. I think it was the initial shock of $5K ,just for an exhaust system. If that is the going rate,well that is the going rate. A few years ago you could do a lot more with five grand but these days it doesnt buy you much........:confused: John

[jaykay]

Terry i Heard that Perth Exhaust centre are selling the Power Sound Systems 2.5" Stainless , are these one of theirs or from China as someone also told me they are Australian Made ??
I believe they are Australian made Len. Curtis VE SS has that system in 2.5" catback on his car. Made some good power according to the dyno he was on...

Perth Exhaust Centre are also owned by Manta so that's why they sell Manta predominantly....

[vyssbeast]

How would a cam sound through the stock exhaust???

3500 for cam/springs/tune ... cheaper and more gain ...

Any chance of a sound file SS Enforcer? (even though i believe you have some slight exhaust mods, rear mufflers?)

[Gonadman2]

I'm glad I'm not alone here, it wasn't really the quality of the exhaust that I was questioning, but the price! As has been said, $5k will buy you a lot of engine or Cam, CAI, Tune mods.

For me it just doesn't seem like good value and that we seem to be paying a premium for owning a VE V8.

Imagine if you sent the Mrs' Focus down the shop for a new exhaust and they said, "$3.5k for a stainless one."

[RED R8]

How would a cam sound through the stock exhaust???

3500 for cam/springs/tune ... cheaper and more gain ...

Any chance of a sound file SS Enforcer? (even though i believe you have some slight exhaust mods, rear mufflers?)

You would still have $1500 to tickle the exhaust.

[EXCESSV]

go and price a stainless dual 3" system with high flow metal substrate cats, pacemaker 4into1s ceramic coated for a VT-VZ and you will find the price will be pretty close to the VE systems.

i just dropped my car off for its system which is costing me $4400....no regrets here and i am yet to drive and listen to it...
the sound, the quality of the system and the gain in power makes the money spent forgotten

[Vulture]

$5k for an exhaust is EXCESSV:rofl:
What's wrong with a nice mild steel system? How long are you guys going to keep your cars? 20 years?

[EXCESSV]

$5k for an exhaust is EXCESSV:rofl:
What's wrong with a nice mild steel system? How long are you guys going to keep your cars? 20 years?not really excessive...its the going rate for these systems and not a bad price $4450 for this system
pacemaker 4into1 1 3/4 ceramic coated, magnaflow Euro III compliant 3" metal substrate cats with 4.5" body, stainless custom cat back with quad 3.5" tips

i can save about close to $1500 for a full xforce stainless system that dual 2.5" but will need to change later on with cam, etc mods done

mild steel doesnt have as good of a sound, dont last as long and very little mild steel options available for the VE.
also i have accomodated for cam, etc in the future with the sizing

yes the car will be with me for ages as i am young and the next big spend will be for a house...so car spending will be little if at all...

at the end of the day its a personal preference and for me i believe i have chosen the best system and best company to do this work for my particular needs...there work is proven with all the happy customers and good gains they are having out of the cars
very unique sound and is unlike other systems out there.

[markone2]

$5k for an exhaust is EXCESSV:rofl:
What's wrong with a nice mild steel system? How long are you guys going to keep your cars? 20 years?

Aprox 6 months :)..boy I'm glad I swung all my efforts into a WH11 Caprice in lieu of a VE ..
$250.00 for 2nd hand paccies....$450.00 for twin 2.5 cat back...means you can concentrate on the go fast bits imeo .11.649 time slips...:burnout:

[ASSASIN]

I have had twin 3" MANTA zorsts on both my GTS's fitted by Terry and they are a definate high qaulity system, no drone or rice crakeling sounds just a nice deep loud rumble until you plant it. These systems can be quite as you like or loud as you like (SO YOU CAN DRIVE BUY THE COPS WITHOUT TO MUCH ATTENTION) in my opinion sound nice,look nice, fit well, what more could you want and hey i spent more than 5k on an engagement ring so i guess 5k for an exhaust is not unrealistic

[saj]

I have had twin 3" MANTA zorsts on both my GTS's fitted by Terry and they are a definate high qaulity system, no drone or rice crakeling sounds just a nice deep loud rumble until you plant it. These systems can be quite as you like or loud as you like (SO YOU CAN DRIVE BUY THE COPS WITHOUT TO MUCH ATTENTION) in my opinion sound nice,look nice, fit well, what more could you want and hey i spent more than 5k on an engagement ring so i guess 5k for an exhaust is not unrealistic

At least you can take the exhaust off the car when you get rid of that.

[Gump]

A nice 2.5" Xforce may suffice more than adequately. Nicely built exhaust system and looks like it has been proven on the VE's

cheers,

[VYSSion]

At least you can take the exhaust off the car when you get rid of that.

:jester::jester:

I'm paying a touch under $4K for my full S/S system on the VY, so I guess you're paying for the recent development work that's going to be on-charged for a while. I reckon the price will probably come down over time maybe?

[FatBoy]

I'm sorry, but i can't see how anyone can say spending 5k on an exhaust system is reasonable ?? :confused:

For a VZ 5k will cover full exhaust including extractors cats etc, a tune, OTR and diff gears. Surely a VE can't be "that" much more expensive ??

I might buy an exhaust shop. Sell one 5k exhaust system each week to unsuspecting suckers and you'd be laughing. 260k per year. Fark !! :shock:

[hsv_wagon]

how the hell do you justify 5k?

i have custom 1 7/8" and twin 3.5" system on my torana (done by a pro-stock car builder) and it cost half that.and i'm sure mine would be 'as good' if not better.

[VYSSion]

I'm sorry, but i can't see how anyone can say spending 5k on an exhaust system is reasonable ?? :confused:

For a VZ 5k will cover full exhaust including extractors cats etc, a tune, OTR and diff gears. Surely a VE can't be "that" much more expensive ??

I might buy an exhaust shop. Sell one 5k exhaust system each week to unsuspecting suckers and you'd be laughing. 260k per year. Fark !! :shock:

Dunno where you're going... but by my quick calculations a comparable system to what he's getting for $5K (ie, quality + S/Steel) would be about $4K for the VZ. Plus tune, OTR and gear is over $2K easily.

But I agree, $5K is a lot.

[Alex(AUS)]

Surely 5k is too much ... can someone break down the costs here ... I mean maybe we can be proven wrong ...

- how much do s/s pipes cost?
- how much is needed?
- how much labour is involved?

You have to remember, most of the systems we are talking about are mass produced and the material must be dirt cheap.

- how much is a crate L98 or LS2 as a comparison?

Thanks,

Alex

[FatBoy]

Dunno where you're going... but by my quick calculations a comparable system to what he's getting for $5K (ie, quality + S/Steel) would be about $4K for the VZ. Plus tune, OTR and gear is over $2K easily.

But I agree, $5K is a lot.

Two different forum sponsors have quoted between 2.5 and 3k. Maybe they are looking after me a little but both are great workshops with proven results. I still reckon i can do what i said under 5k. Once my house is finished and my missus quits busting my balls i'll do it and post the results !! :hide:

Point blank 5k for an exhaust is a joke. Is there twice as much work in a VE compared to the LS1 variant ?? I'm no expert (let's be clear about that !!) but i really doubt it. Sorry if that offends people...

[fastestls7]

wat a load of crap. those guys must be building their own cars at the customers high expense. i bet you, that any one of the sponsers here can and will send a FULL exhaust anywhere in australia for way way less than $5k

[EXCESSV]

wat a load of crap. those guys must be building their own cars at the customers high expense. i bet you, that any one of the sponsers here can and will send a FULL exhaust anywhere in australia for way way less than $5kask and you will see mate.
a difillipo system with extractors, cats and dual 3" is $4200 plus shipping plus installation from a forum sponsor...will get pretty close to $5K.
thats for a VE V8

the KPM loud system like i said in a previous post was $4100K plus shipping plus installation for the stainless 3" loud system

yes the 2.5" systems are between $2500 - $3000 plus shipping plus installation from a forum sponsor.

i couldnt believe it and i was upset about the whole idea of spending $5K for a full stainless system but thats the going price so ppl better get over it or put the money down and buy one if you want a system for the VE

[Justice R8]

wat a load of crap. those guys must be building their own cars at the customers high expense. i bet you, that any one of the sponsers here can and will send a FULL exhaust anywhere in australia for way way less than $5k

And just to top it off Sam has tested 2 full VE systems this week as part of his testing (mythbusting), both full stainless systems, one off the shelf and one full custom. 10rwhp was the best he got.

These tests were on his VE SSV which already had a tune in it. 10rwhp was the best gain it got over the standard VE system no matter what he did. There are a few other people that are sending systems to test as well later in the week.

As for stainless, apart from the look of the extractors, why? A mild steel system will last years and by this time most people will be over the noise etc or have sold the car. Remember, buy an exhaust because you like the sound of it. Dont fall into the big power gain myth as it appears it is just that, another myth, just the VE myth has gone up and costs $5k :)

[vyssbeast]

We have broken it down, stainless steal everything firstly.

Twin 3" S/S = $1500 ?? (Minimum)
Extractors = $1200?? (not sure on this)
Cats = 800 a pair (cheap)

Thats $3500, add how much for fitting $500? so $4000??? My prices are outta whack im not so upto date

But on my cheapo LS1 i have a FULL stainless steal exhaust, (s/s DF catback and s/s &coated headers) all done for bout $2100 + $200 (bought cats with opened up pipes already attached) ... so $2300 for a full s/s system with opened cats. If i were to buy hiflow cats then $3000...

Dont know where the extra 2K comes in ... even if i were to upgrade to a 3" thats not 2K worth of upgrade!!

[fastestls7]

then how did i get a full custom twin 3 in fitted. cai supplied and fitted, engine oil change, diff swap, custom tune and my oem exhaust system sent back to melbourne for abt $6k at kpm . i certainly didnt performany sexual favours on the guys at kpm.

[TUFFIE]

We have broken it down, stainless steal everything firstly.

Twin 3" S/S = $1500 ?? (Minimum)
Extractors = $1200?? (not sure on this)
Cats = 800 a pair (cheap)

Thats $3500, add how much for fitting $500? so $4000??? My prices are outta whack im not so upto date

But on my cheapo LS1 i have a FULL stainless steal exhaust, (s/s DF catback and s/s &coated headers) all done for bout $2100 + $200 (bought cats with opened up pipes already attached) ... so $2300 for a full s/s system with opened cats. If i were to buy hiflow cats then $3000...

Dont know where the extra 2K comes in ... even if i were to upgrade to a 3" thats not 2K worth of upgrade!!


Keep in Mind this is retail..... they are bought wholesale for about half the price..(some bigger shops get a bigger discount) Don't get me wrong not saying they should sell the systems for nothing but I can't help but feel that VE owners are being extorted to the maximum.

[Uncle Tone]

And just to top it off Sam has tested 2 full VE systems this week as part of his testing (mythbusting), both full stainless systems, one off the shelf and one full custom. 10rwhp was the best he got.

These tests were on his VE SSV which already had a tune in it. 10rwhp was the best gain it got over the standard VE system no matter what he did. There are a few other people that are sending systems to test as well later in the week.

As for stainless, apart from the look of the extractors, why? A mild steel system will last years and by this time most people will be over the noise etc or have sold the car. Remember, buy an exhaust because you like the sound of it. Dont fall into the big power gain myth as it appears it is just that, another myth, just the VE myth has gone up and costs $5k :)

Well well well......

:D

I just might pass on an exhaust for now....seems like Tuna was right!! :shock:

....unless 700 dollars for each rwkw is considered good value.... :lmao:

[CarlFST60L]

Well well well......

:D

I just might pass on an exhaust for now....seems like Tuna was right!! :shock:

....unless 700 dollars for each rwkw is considered good value.... :lmao:

I have the full Di-fillipo 3' exhuast, extractors and high flow cats on the E R8... This is by far the best sounding, lowest drone, least crackle exhuast i have ever owned. Ok, maybe not best sounding at full WOT, but, its great considering their is bugger all drone even when towing a 1300kg boat, its usually about half hour into the drone that driving into a tree at WOT dosnt seem so bad to end the brain shuddering hum, i dont miss those days :smilesandbanana:

I wouldnt recommend it as the cheapest way, but there is usually always a cheaper way to do things

[mustanger]

AS many have said ,you might not have to go the full system on the VE. The standard manifolds on the L98 and the headers on the LS2 seem to do the job. If you want a bit of a note ,just go catback and save yourself $2-3 K. If you want to spend the extra and go the full hog,just pay the extra, it is your choice.

[Curtis-R]

I believe they are Australian made Len. Curtis VE SS has that system in 2.5" catback on his car. Made some good power according to the dyno he was on...

Perth Exhaust Centre are also owned by Manta so that's why they sell Manta predominantly....

Yep 3 of us running these systems. They are made by MotoLine in QLD I believe. Full stainless and bang for your buck I reckon it rocks.
I've managed to source these for well under $2k.

[Justice R8]

Yep 3 of us running these systems. They are made by MotoLine in QLD I believe. Full stainless and bang for your buck I reckon it rocks.
I've managed to source these for well under $2k.


Seems like a good system at a good price, 2.5in.

Why is it all of a sudden people are being led to believe that you need a dual 3 inch system on a stock or cam only 6ltr? There are plenty of cars making big power on 2.5inch systems. Shit my 6.5litre was making 500rwhp on a twin 2.5in. I went to a 3.5 single purely for the sound.

Maybe there is a bit more margin in pushing the 3 inch system.

[ti0350]

I feel for the VE owners it seems they are being over charged...
My mate owns an exhaust shop and when I rang him for a quote on a cat back for my SS I asked him about getting a 3 inch duak system and he said I didnt need a 3 inch.. He recons a dual 2.5 is plenty good enough..
Does the 3inch system make that much of a difference on the L98 compared to an LS1.

[EXCESSV]

i will post up the results of what my apparent "overpriced" (according to some here) VE exhaust system gets on the SSV tomorrow.
got it dynod yesterday at Chipmaster and it was getting the exhaust done today and finish off in the morning....then to Chipmaster for a tune so will get dyno of full system then one after with tune.

wont help uncle tone as his is a LS2

[Wonky]

Why is it all of a sudden people are being led to believe that you need a dual 3 inch system on a stock or cam only 6ltr? There are plenty of cars making big power on 2.5inch systems. Shit my 6.5litre was making 500rwhp on a twin 2.5in. I went to a 3.5 single purely for the sound.
I went dual 3" on my SSV for exactly the same reason as you - purely for the sound! As far as I am concerned it sounds awesome (and the drone should be fixed soon with new rear mufflers they are replacing at no cost).

[Curtis-R]

i will post up the results of what my apparent "overpriced" (according to some here) VE exhaust system gets on the SSV tomorrow.
got it dynod yesterday at Chipmaster and it was getting the exhaust done today and finish off in the morning....then to Chipmaster for a tune so will get dyno of full system then one after with tune.

wont help uncle tone as his is a LS2

Be very interested in this result..Did you have a base run? BTW at the end of the day these things are only worth as much as you are prepared to pay. So long as you are happy with your purchase then it's all good :)

[Justice R8]

i will post up the results of what my apparent "overpriced" (according to some here) VE exhaust system gets on the SSV tomorrow.
got it dynod yesterday at Chipmaster and it was getting the exhaust done today and finish off in the morning....then to Chipmaster for a tune so will get dyno of full system then one after with tune.

wont help uncle tone as his is a LS2

Make sure he gives it a run before the tune. I am sure you wont be seeing any massive gains through the exhaust and I am certain that Dan would have told you that. You will obviously see some good gains in the tune.

It seems that most people grab an exhaust and a tune together therefore the gains of the tune are often credited wrongly to the exhaust to justify the cost.

As long as it sounds great I am sure you will be happy and once again that is the main thing.

[mustanger]

Be very interested in this result..Did you have a base run? BTW at the end of the day these things are only worth as much as you are prepared to pay. So long as you are happy with your purchase then it's all good :)

Very wise words Curtis.:yup:

[fastestls7]

i agree with wonky. i went 3 in for the sound also. but saying that we tried a twin three inch with a big magnaflow in the guts of the full system and strugglee to make 250rwkw. then swapped to a x pipe in the guts with same rears and made 268.7rwkw.

the 2.5 is probably enuf on for the bolt on ve, but will require more tune time to get the power figures up there. the 3 in systems make the tune quicker and easier.....
so each to their own choices lads. it all part of the fun

[CarlFST60L]

Seems like a good system at a good price, 2.5in.

Why is it all of a sudden people are being led to believe that you need a dual 3 inch system on a stock or cam only 6ltr? There are plenty of cars making big power on 2.5inch systems. Shit my 6.5litre was making 500rwhp on a twin 2.5in. I went to a 3.5 single purely for the sound.

Maybe there is a bit more margin in pushing the 3 inch system.

I just love that deeper sound, dual 3" has the perfect deep note (for me atleast)...

Just a theory, but, I reakon (maybe) that you can get a lower drone verses WOT volume with the dual 3"

[Justice R8]

I went dual 3" on my SSV for exactly the same reason as you - purely for the sound! As far as I am concerned it sounds awesome (and the drone should be fixed soon with new rear mufflers they are replacing at no cost).

The drone is what I am hearing is harder to get right on the VE than its predecessors. You chose your exhaust for the right reason. Sound.

Interestingly enough thoughg I popped it at Sams this afternoon and a black GTS was there that the owner had done the exhaust. He had taken the quad tips off and replaced it with just big one out each side. I thought it looked quite good. I will try and grab a shot tomorrow

[TUFFIE]

"i will post up the results of what my apparent "overpriced" (according to some here) VE exhaust system gets on the SSV tomorrow."


All I'm saying is that Some are taking full advantage of the Markup between Wholesale and retail on these systems...

I know for a fact that there are Systems (reputable brand) that ppl have fitted recently can be bought for just over 1 K and are selling for around the 2.3 k mark..

[fastestls7]

the fact that the ve doesnt really have a boot floor or proper parcel shelf doest help the drone.

[EXCESSV]

Be very interested in this result..Did you have a base run? BTW at the end of the day these things are only worth as much as you are prepared to pay. So long as you are happy with your purchase then it's all good :)yeah base run was 216rwkw(first run) but Dan takes the 4th run as the car is warm by then and i got 206rwkw...heatsoak is the killer in the VE.
dans dyno is known to be very conservative so i am happy with that...
car has done 3500km

Make sure he gives it a run before the tune. I am sure you wont be seeing any massive gains through the exhaust and I am certain that Dan would have told you that. You will obviously see some good gains in the tune.

It seems that most people grab an exhaust and a tune together therefore the gains of the tune are often credited wrongly to the exhaust to justify the cost.

As long as it sounds great I am sure you will be happy and once again that is the main thing.will be getting one done before the tune for sure on the same dyno as the baseline

to me the systems sound awesome and although i could have gone cheaper or smaller or mild steal i simply wanted the best quality, best sound and thats what i am paying for...NO regrets here

[Wonky]

Interestingly enough thoughg I popped it at Sams this afternoon and a black GTS was there that the owner had done the exhaust. He had taken the quad tips off and replaced it with just big one out each side. I thought it looked quite good. I will try and grab a shot tomorrow
Have seen a few VE V8s with only one big pipe out each side and it just looks wrong to me ........ I guess my mind has equated that look with V6s so to me it detracts from the look eg. the Walky VE in the motoring mag I was reading yesterday (can't remember if it was Motor or Wheels).

Still, to each his own!

[mce]

http://images.cainer.net//uploads/2.JPG

ve system on the left , vy system on the right as you can see there is a lot more involved in building a ve system , there is a lot less room under the ve which require a lot more bends to fit and get clearance , the l98 has a total differant sound to the ls1 due to the higher comp and port shape

ok now lets build a system

the ve has 18 bends @ $55.00 ea = $990
2 x rear muffler $300.00 ea = $600
1 x centre muffler $300
2 x hotdogs $120 ea = $240
6 x flange plates $10 ea = $60
4 x 3.5" s/s tips $60 ea = $240
4mt tube $240

parts cost $2670

aprox 16 hours to build @ $45 per = $720
total cost to build cat back system $3390
now this is to build a one of system with mediam quality parts , you can buy cheaper part and more expensive parts and these prices are rough
now go into you local holden dealer and ask them there labour rate and the will tell you $120.00 + gst

so this is why there are a lot of chinese systems sold because @ $2200 they are good value but not the same quality or sound as compared to ausie made manta, difilipo,sureflo ,lukey

at the end of the day you get the best that you can aford and you get what you pay for

my 2cents

[RED R8]

Well put Terry ,you say its your 2c though is that for the VE as well or is that more ? maybe 5c.

Kidding though I bought all my gear from you came out at around $3200 in mild steel for a VY for Xforce cat back pacy's and ggod metal cats so to me 5k for stainless is not ridiculious.

[mce]

Well put Terry ,you say its your 2c though is that for the VE as well or is that more ? maybe 5c.

Kidding though I bought all my gear from you came out at around $3200 in mild steel for a VY for Xforce cat back pacy's and ggod metal cats so to me 5k for stainless is not ridiculious.

unfortanly people think just because somthing is expensive that we are ripping them , if this was the case we would all be out of buiseness
Now i was told by my supplers that s/s bends are about to go up by 60% now how do i tell the customers that!!!!!

[RED R8]

unfortanly people think just because somthing is expensive that we are ripping them , if this was the case we would all be out of buiseness
Now i was told by my supplers that s/s bends are about to go up by 60% now how do i tell the customers that!!!!!

Mate I hear ya I sell $4000 hot water systems everyday and you get what you pay for , my store this financial year turned over more than a mil but by the time you pay everyone and everything Daz don't have a mil left anymore.

[EXCESSV]

well put terry and great explanation :bow::bow::bow:


Mate I hear ya I sell $4000 hot water systems everyday and you get what you pay for , my store this financial year turned over more than a mil but by the time you pay everyone and everything Daz don't have a mil left anymore.i am getting a franchise now in solarhart...can get cams, painted rims, etc like Daz :smilesandbanana:

[RED R8]

well put terry and great explanation :bow::bow::bow:

i am getting a franchise now in solarhart...can get cams, painted rims, etc like Daz :smilesandbanana:

$700,000 and I walk away ....:confused::)

You can't talk yourself young fella ...VE's,tunes .zorst mmmmm

[EXCESSV]

$700,000 and I walk away ....:confused::)

You can't talk yourself young fella ...VE's,tunes .zorst mmmmm
:lol:dont forget billet (teins & 20s soon)hahaha.
living at home with no expenses rules!

just living the dream daz

[RED R8]

:lol:dont forget billet (teins & 20s soon)hahaha.
living at home with no expenses rules!

just living the dream dazThat will make it one dead sexy VE..

PS:stay at home as long as you can its easystreet.

[mce]

Mate I hear ya I sell $4000 hot water systems everyday and you get what you pay for , my store this financial year turned over more than a mil but by the time you pay everyone and everything Daz don't have a mil left anymore.

i know what you meen Daz it cost me $270.000 to set up my new shop and my fitter takes home more than me and he doesnt have a headach at the end of the day but it not all about the money i have been fitting exhaust for 20 years and i still enjoy what i do ,not to many people can say that about there jobs

[A^K^T]

unfortanly people think just because somthing is expensive that we are ripping them , if this was the case we would all be out of buiseness
Now i was told by my supplers that s/s bends are about to go up by 60% now how do i tell the customers that!!!!!

Where i work the price of stainless steel , steel and zinc is fairly important and the price of stainless went up a fair way not that long ago . I think there are cheaper grades available from China but they may not be suitable like the steel that was tried by a local manufacturer that had a high silica content and didn't like being galvanized .

[EXCESSV]

That will make it one dead sexy VE..

PS:stay at home as long as you can its easystreet.plan to mate...easy with european parents...

anyway back on topic...hopefully the guys who say $5K for VE is a rippoff and us VE owners are idiots for paying that much will see from terry diagram and maths whats actually involved

[RED R8]

i know what you meen Daz it cost me $270.000 to set up my new shop and my fitter takes home more than me and he doesnt have a headach at the end of the day but it not all about the money i have been fitting exhaust for 20 years and i still enjoy what i do ,not to many people can say that about there jobs

So you arn't making 4k out of your 5k system then ??.

I feel if you you want to spend 5k you are probably getting the best system if you want to spend 3k there is a system out there for you it just not as good.Same as the difference between a $1500 full maffless tune against a $600 mail order tune or $500 ss inductions TB Vs a $700 TBA TB.

[mce]

[QUOTE=Dazvyss;940638]So you arn't making 4k out of your 5k system then ??.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: i wish i that was the case i would be on a permant holiday instead of working 13hour days just to pay the bills

[EXCESSV]

So you arn't making 4k out of your 5k system then ??.

I feel if you you want to spend 5k you are probably getting the best system if you want to spend 3k there is a system out there for you it just not as good.Same as the difference between a $1500 full maffless tune against a $600 mail order tune or $500 ss inductions TB Vs a $700 TBA TB.
well put Daz:bravo::bravo::bravo:

[SS Enforcer]

How would a cam sound through the stock exhaust???

3500 for cam/springs/tune ... cheaper and more gain ...

Any chance of a sound file SS Enforcer? (even though i believe you have some slight exhaust mods, rear mufflers?)

I have Lukeys on the rear. It sounds great at wot and light cruising but drones a bit around 1900 rpm. also the centre muffler and hot dogs are gone replaced with a x-pipe.

No I don't have a sound file havn't got a video to take one. I will get a good full system on it but won't be paying 5k . Or maybe i'll get the heads done and Jesel roller rockers and still have change left from 5k. Much better HP results than an exhaust.

cheers

[Hammer]

what shop is this through Gonadman ???

[TUFFIE]

Well put Terry ,you say its your 2c though is that for the VE as well or is that more ? maybe 5c.

Kidding though I bought all my gear from you came out at around $3200 in mild steel for a VY for Xforce cat back pacy's and ggod metal cats so to me 5k for stainless is not ridiculious.

Is not X force made by the same factory as ESA? They sure as hell look the same??

[chunkyr8]

at the end of the day you get the best that you can aford and you get what you pay for

my 2cents[/QUOTE]


I just got a quoted $2900 for a custom made 3" twin system with cats and extractors in stainless steel, does this mean i am getting a less quality system due to the custom made or not? if so i would rather pay more for a better system, as with most ve owners i am doing it for the sound not so much for the power.

[Brendo84]

i only paid $2100 for a full s/s custom built system but no high flow cats.

5k is far too rich

[VILLAIN]

There is a guy in QLD selling Xforce 2.5" cat back for $ 740.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/VE-V8-SS-COMMODORE-TWIN-2-5-XFORCE-CAT-BACK-EXHAUST_W0QQitemZ110138283602QQihZ001QQcategoryZ50 140QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[jaykay]

i only paid $2100 for a full s/s custom built system but no high flow cats.

5k is far too rich
Who from ?

[mce]

at the end of the day you get the best that you can aford and you get what you pay for

my 2cents


I just got a quoted $2900 for a custom made 3" twin system with cats and extractors in stainless steel, does this mean i am getting a less quality system due to the custom made or not? if so i would rather pay more for a better system, as with most ve owners i am doing it for the sound not so much for the power.[/QUOTE]

That is a very good price so lets break it down

stainless extractor would cost about $1100
ceramic cats $ 490 a pair or metal cats $900 a pair
o2 extensions $160 for 4
= $2160 w/metal cats that leaves $740 for system
= $1750 w/ceramic cats that leaves $1150 for system

the cheapest bolt on mandrel bent mild steel system in 3" is xforce $1800
now i am not saying the this would be a nasty system just ask what you are getting for your money

ie: i can buy 3" magnaflow mufflers for $325 american made with lifetime waranty or chinese powerflow mufflers for $190 now thats a 70% diferance in price now from the outside these mufflers look the same as powerflow is a copy of magnaflow but internaly the powerflow has 1 wrap of fiberglass around the perf tube tied on by a piece of wire to hold it in place
the magnaflow has woven stainless steel wool wraped around the perf tube and then rockwool to fill the rest of the body the idia behind this is when the gas is flowing at high velocty the steel wool stops the glass from being drawn through and making the car sound high piched and drumey after a period of time

hope this helps
terry

[VYSSion]

Great post Terry... good to see the actual figures. :deal:

[mce]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendo84
i only paid $2100 for a full s/s custom built system but no high flow cats.

5k is far too rich

Who from ?

thats about the right money for a vz

[Caprice270]

$5k used to get you a full stainless steel twin exhaust with extractors, CAI, K&N filter, ported throttle body and edit!!!. This was only 4 years ago. Its getting to be a joke.

The problem is that there's not enough competition amongst the after-market modifiers. Hell If I can make $5k for installing some bent steel pipes, I may as well open up a workshop as well. What is going on? Why aren't there more suppliers in the market.

[Gonadman2]

what shop is this through Gonadman ???
Hedland Diesel and Exhaust.

Certainly not the last stop in exhaust shops, but its the only one up here, and I thought there would be no harm in giving them a go.

More than anything I was interested to hear whether people thought $5k was a big ask, or whether I was just being a cheapskate. I've been down the extensive modifying path with my old WRX, and I know quality doesn't come cheap, and bought good quality mods but there was no single component of my upgrades that came near $5k!

edit: Actually my Autronic SMC ECU cost me $4k installed and tuned, but there are other options that will do the same job at around $1k (Power FC, EcuDET, etc). I chose the Autronic based on its more advanced features - in other words it had more to offer than the cheaper versions.

[chunkyr8]

I just got a quoted $2900 for a custom made 3" twin system with cats and extractors in stainless steel, does this mean i am getting a less quality system due to the custom made or not? if so i would rather pay more for a better system, as with most ve owners i am doing it for the sound not so much for the power.

That is a very good price so lets break it down

stainless extractor would cost about $1100
ceramic cats $ 490 a pair or metal cats $900 a pair
o2 extensions $160 for 4
= $2160 w/metal cats that leaves $740 for system
= $1750 w/ceramic cats that leaves $1150 for system

the cheapest bolt on mandrel bent mild steel system in 3" is xforce $1800
now i am not saying the this would be a nasty system just ask what you are getting for your money

ie: i can buy 3" magnaflow mufflers for $325 american made with lifetime waranty or chinese powerflow mufflers for $190 now thats a 70% diferance in price now from the outside these mufflers look the same as powerflow is a copy of magnaflow but internaly the powerflow has 1 wrap of fiberglass around the perf tube tied on by a piece of wire to hold it in place
the magnaflow has woven stainless steel wool wraped around the perf tube and then rockwool to fill the rest of the body the idia behind this is when the gas is flowing at high velocty the steel wool stops the glass from being drawn through and making the car sound high piched and drumey after a period of time

hope this helps
terry[/QUOTE]


it is a great help Terry

it is true you get what you pay for most times
i rang the guy back , the price has now gone up to $3200
that includes 1 3/4 pacemakers headers, custom stainless steel mufflers, 304
grade stainless steel dual 3" system, stainless steel cats and carries a 2 year warranty.

could you please tell me what brand you would recommend for dual 3" system

[mce]

could you please tell me what brand you would recommend for dual 3" system



in order of preferance

1 manta
2 difilipo
3 xforce

[chunkyr8]

could you please tell me what brand you would recommend for dual 3" system



in order of preferance

1 manta
2 difilipo
3 xforce

Thanks Terry, i'm getting a price for the difilipo system at the moment
do you know where the best place in sydney would be to go for a manta system

[Wonky]

i only paid $2100 for a full s/s custom built system but no high flow cats.
..... but that was on your SSZ I assume?? As Terry has already explained, VE is more complex and therefore more expensive.

[jaykay]

do you know where the best place in sydney would be to go for a manta system
For memory the twin 3" Manta stainless catback was $2,800. PM Terry and I'm sure he'll give you a quote as he works closely with Manta over here in the West.

[EXCESSV]

well for those that want to know about the results of my "overpriced" exhaust here they are:

i went for:
pacemaker 4into1 1 3/4 ceramic coated
magnaflow 3" cats with 4.5" body
custom APC stainless dual 3" system to dual 2.5" system
quad 3.5" tips

cost $4450

car started stock with 206rwkw...first run got 216rwkw but 2nd, 3rd and 4th runs suffered from heatsoak as the VE is very prone to this and they were all around the 206rwkw mark

put the car on same dyno as the baseline as done on monday.
drove straight from exhaust shop to the dyno
car pull consisted 231rwkw with only a 1rwkw loss due to heat soak from the first run
so exhaust added 25rwkw without a TUNE!
most importantly the car has very little drone (barely noticeable) which should be gone once the mufflers carbon up

then the tune finished it off with 253.7rwkw

as far as i am concerned i got excellent gains from a system
the sound is awesome and i couldnt be happier
the heatsoak is greatly reduced
so a quality system = one over the moon customer...i am rapt!!! :yahoo::dance::banana:

maybe in ppls eyes i paid too much or should have gone mild steel instead of stainless but i have no regrets and would do it again tomorrow...

will scan in dyno sheet and post up tomorrow for those interested

[RED R8]

Bout time you let us know lol.

Its the old saying "Money's only worth the pleasure it gives you"..Awesome results by the way can't wait to see it on Sunday and JK keeps raving about having a go on your Knob err billet shifter.

[EXCESSV]

Bout time you let us know lol.

Its the old saying "Money's only worth the pleasure it gives you"..Awesome results by the way can't wait to see it on Sunday and JK keeps raving about having a go on your Knob err billet shifter.
very true mate. the sound, the gain and the smile on my face are worth more than any price tag.
and sorry i didnt get back to everyone earlier but cant get out of the car...
and yes john enjoyed playing with my new knob...i mean shifter :lmao:

[Gonadman2]

These Guys (http://www.kpmauto.com/HoldenPerformance/VE60SSSSVHSV/ExhaustSystems/tabid/100/Default.aspx) seem to offer a quality system for the VE at a more realistic price, and they are a forum sponsor. It can obviously be done, what would I be sacrificing by going with one of these?

I like the fact that they offer a range of systems and upgrades, and can do extractors while keeping the factory cats.

[EXCESSV]

These Guys (http://www.kpmauto.com/HoldenPerformance/VE60SSSSVHSV/ExhaustSystems/tabid/100/Default.aspx) seem to offer a quality system for the VE at a more realistic price, and they are a forum sponsor. It can obviously be done, what would I be sacrificing by going with one of these?

I like the fact that they offer a range of systems and upgrades, and can do extractors while keeping the factory cats.
did you not read any of my posts where i quoted KPM and there exhausts and prices.
how is $3950 for a full loud system plus freight plus installation more reasonable than the 5K system you got quoted....do your maths!

$3950K for exhaust plus approx $150 to frieght to you...at least as you are in far north WA.
plus at about $300 to install
= $4400...

[Gonadman2]

did you not read any of my posts where i quoted KPM and there exhausts and prices.
how is $3950 for a full loud system plus freight plus installation more reasonable than the 5K system you got quoted....do your maths!

$3950K for exhaust plus approx $150 to frieght to you...at least as you are in far north WA.
plus at about $300 to install
= $4400...

Yes and no, I skimmed a lot of the thread... :doh:

When you put it like that I suppose you make a valid argument. I'm stilll gonna keep searching.

[Alex(AUS)]

did you not read any of my posts where i quoted KPM and there exhausts and prices.
how is $3950 for a full loud system plus freight plus installation more reasonable than the 5K system you got quoted....do your maths!

$3950K for exhaust plus approx $150 to frieght to you...at least as you are in far north WA.
plus at about $300 to install
= $4400...

Well done EXCESSV ... some nice gains there for sure! The cost is high but if you are happy with it ... that is what matters!!!

Alex

[Wonky]

These Guys (http://www.kpmauto.com/HoldenPerformance/VE60SSSSVHSV/ExhaustSystems/tabid/100/Default.aspx) seem to offer a quality system for the VE at a more realistic price, and they are a forum sponsor. It can obviously be done, what would I be sacrificing by going with one of these?

I like the fact that they offer a range of systems and upgrades, and can do extractors while keeping the factory cats.
I've got a KPM dual 3" full stainless system (with GTS extractors and cats) and everyone who has heard it will I am sure say it sounds awesome. Being an A6 it does drone a bit but they are getting new rear mufflers in about 2 to 3 months (free upgrade) which they feel will eliminate most/all the drone.

If yours is a manual you'll probably have no dramas as the autos are much worse apparently. My drone (and power) would also be helped apparently by having long 4-1s so I am working on that..........

Also see http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=76824

PS Nice result Dean! Bet it sounds awesome too! :yahoo:

[SS Enforcer]

There is one thing to be said for the full stainless systems and that is on the VE's from behind they look awesome especially at night. You can see the S/S pipe shaping down towards the diff so it really stands out.

cheers

[Frenchy VX SS]

Will be picking up my twin 3" xforce tommorrow.
Why did i purchase this system..??

1- Cost (was cheaper than other 3" systems and the mrs doesnt justify $$ spent on my car)
2 - I have had the china spec copies of xforce systems on my wrx (read: 3" TBE for $800! and still managed to get the same power as people who had spent $2000 on the same system) and have never had a problem with the quality or fitment.
3 - I was given a drive in a GTS with the same system and to me it sounded perfect.


If you want a cheap system, then get one. If you want an expensive system then get one of them. At the end of the day, what people spend their money on, they have the reasons behind it. If they are happy with their choice then let them be!!
Some will say spending $5000 on a set of 20" for their VE would be stupid, other will think it is much better than spending $5000 on a exhaust system.....
Thats what makes modifiying so good.... people have different ideas, views and project choices.
So lets just let those who want to spend $$ on what they want do so hey ??
Justified or not.... i dont really think people have the right to say what people should be spending their money on.

[RED R8]

Will be picking up my twin 3" xforce tommorrow.
Why did i purchase this system..??

1- Cost (was cheaper than other 3" systems and the mrs doesnt justify $$ spent on my car)
2 - I have had the china spec copies of xforce systems on my wrx (read: 3" TBE for $800! and still managed to get the same power as people who had spent $2000 on the same system) and have never had a problem with the quality or fitment.
3 - I was given a drive in a GTS with the same system and to me it sounded perfect.


If you want a cheap system, then get one. If you want an expensive system then get one of them. At the end of the day, what people spend their money on, they have the reasons behind it. If they are happy with their choice then let them be!!
Some will say spending $5000 on a set of 20" for their VE would be stupid, other will think it is much better than spending $5000 on a exhaust system.....
Thats what makes modifiying so good.... people have different ideas, views and project choices.
So lets just let those who want to spend $$ on what they want do so hey ??
Justified or not.... i dont really think people have the right to say what people should be spending their money on.

Even though the Xforce may be a cheaper system it still sounds bloody good and I wouldn't swap mine for anything.

[VX11SS]

[QUOTE=Silver VE SS;941503]Will be picking up my twin 3" xforce tommorrow.
Why did i purchase this system..??

1- Cost (was cheaper than other 3" systems and the mrs doesnt justify $$ spent on my car)
2 - I have had the china spec copies of xforce systems on my wrx (read: 3" TBE for $800! and still managed to get the same power as people who had spent $2000 on the same system) and have never had a problem with the quality or fitment.
3 - I was given a drive in a GTS with the same system and to me it sounded perfect.


QUOTE]

Hi mate
Did you get the full 3" or only the catback setup?

Still sitting on the fence here as I'm freaking about drone on the R8 A6, I've asked for feedback on the 2.5" Xforce but havent really had any yet.

Cheers Jay

[EXCESSV]

Well done EXCESSV ... some nice gains there for sure! The cost is high but if you are happy with it ... that is what matters!!!

Alex


PS Nice result Dean! Bet it sounds awesome too! :yahoo:

i am more than happy with the system....havent driven the car much as i picked it up last night but i am over the moon...the smile is still huge and everyone that i has heard it thinks its great....
i started it this morning to go to work and i farken scared myself...i love it :yahoo:
even R Dirty 3 and co who love there skylines heard it this morning and were grinning

finally a V8 that sounds like one!

[Vulture]

Even though the Xforce may be a cheaper system it still sounds bloody good and I wouldn't swap mine for anything.

I wouldn't swap mine either - it sounds bloody horn!

[R Dirty 3]

i am more than happy with the system....havent driven the car much as i picked it up last night but i am over the moon...the smile is still huge and everyone that i has heard it thinks its great....
i started it this morning to go to work and i farken scared myself...i love it :yahoo:
even R Dirty 3 and co who love there skylines heard it this morning and were grinning

finally a V8 that sounds like one!

Reckon i can get the LS2 to fit in my Skyline? Sounds sweeeeeet!!!!

Just took it for a drive then as i have finished work on it and it does sound great. Only drove it to 4000rpm but i suspect it gets better???

Cheers
Brad

[Belzey]

Hi mate
Did you get the full 3" or only the catback setup?

Still sitting on the fence here as I'm freaking about drone on the R8 A6, I've asked for feedback on the 2.5" Xforce but havent really had any yet.

Cheers Jay

Hi Jay

We have put the stainless steel xforce 2.5" on our R8 and there is no drone at all, the sound is really nice not overly obnoxious and loud just right. I have a sound file up in the my ride section of it :)

If you want more info we went through Sonny he is a world of knowledge that man and will answer any questions you have.

:wave: Kelly

[ASSASIN]

These Guys (http://www.kpmauto.com/HoldenPerformance/VE60SSSSVHSV/ExhaustSystems/tabid/100/Default.aspx) seem to offer a quality system for the VE at a more realistic price, and they are a forum sponsor. It can obviously be done, what would I be sacrificing by going with one of these?

I like the fact that they offer a range of systems and upgrades, and can do extractors while keeping the factory cats.

Did you work for Ngarda up in port hedland

[EXCESSV]

Reckon i can get the LS2 to fit in my Skyline? Sounds sweeeeeet!!!!

Just took it for a drive then as i have finished work on it and it does sound great. Only drove it to 4000rpm but i suspect it gets better???

Cheers
Brad not ls2 mate....L98...its better than the LS2 :stick: :hide:
4000rpm...soft c##k
its peaks at 5500rpm mate... :burnout:

[RED R8]

not ls2 mate....L98...its better than the LS2 :stick: :hide:
4000rpm...soft c##k
its peaks at 5500rpm mate... :burnout:

It was 4000rpm on the spot in third though...:bawl:

[Delco]

Even though the Xforce may be a cheaper system it still sounds bloody good and I wouldn't swap mine for anything.

On the VE the 3" xforce drones like a bitch for me , the twin 2 1/2 systems I have tested so far have shown next to no improvement over the std systems

[RED R8]

On the VE the 3" xforce drones like a bitch for me , the twin 2 1/2 systems I have tested so far have shown next to no improvement over the std systems


No drone on a cammed VY.:):)

Why do the VE's drone so much ?

[jaykay]

On the VE the 3" xforce drones like a bitch for me ,
We'll find out shortly how the 3" X Force goes on a manual, Matt is having his catback fitted at Terry's shortly. Terry has just finished a twin 3" Manta stainless catback so Matt can listen to that and compare....

[RED R8]

We'll find out shortly how the 3" X Force goes on a manual, Matt is having his catback fitted at Terry's shortly. Terry has just finished a twin 3" Manta stainless catback so Matt can listen to that and compare....

Might shoot up and have a listen.

[R Dirty 3]

not ls2 mate....L98...its better than the LS2 :stick: :hide:
4000rpm...soft c##k
its peaks at 5500rpm mate... :burnout:

Hmmm, think i need another drive then. What say we "share" the car next MC???? Then i think we can really determine the soft c""k then!!!

[LS1Grange]

Might shoot up and have a listen.

Say NO to drugs Daz.

[EXCESSV]

No drone on a cammed VY.:):)

Why do the VE's drone so much ?the drone is due to the accoustic of the car Daz...at certain frequencies the drone is exagerated in the cabin.
put mine in any gear where its revving at belowing 1500rpm and stand on the accelerator and it drones as your labouring the engine at such low revs. be gentle at that rev range and no drone.
although i dont know why you would put your foot down at such low revs...the response is pathetic

Hmmm, think i need another drive then. What say we "share" the car next MC???? Then i think we can really determine the soft c""k then!!!but you think the shifters throws are too short :stick:
if i am here for the next one then no prob...;)
it might be on the teins too by then hey?

Say NO to drugs Daz.
:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

[RED R8]

Say NO to drugs Daz.

You funny fukcer:rofl::rofl:

[Belzey]

You funny fukcer:rofl::rofl:

:lmao: yeah good one

[R Dirty 3]

but you think the shifters throws are too short :stick:
if i am here for the next one then no prob...;)
it might be on the teins too by then hey?

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:

Ill adapt the driving style to suit the shifter :)
Dont think youll be here. The V8 would be better tested on the sprint (like the last on you did)

[EXCESSV]

Ill adapt the driving style to suit the shifter :)
Dont think youll be here. The V8 would be better tested on the sprint (like the last on you did)like i said mate...might be in coral bay...

[RED R8]

I just had a good listen to two VE SS's that had just had cat backs fitted at MCE ,both cars were given a drive by driven hard to give an idea of sounds.Both systems were stainless cat backs one was a Manta one was an Xforce my thoughts were

Xforce-Idle was nice and deep not too loud,quality of the system was great nice and shinny welds looked good.On full throttle the Xforce had a nice clean note and one I would be very happy with but is defiantly not loud although Terry did say with extractors and cats would louden up.

Manta-Idle was also nice and deep and very similar to Xforce on full throttle also sounded very nice and maybe a touch louder it also had a deepish roar sound to it.

All in all they both sounded great they both were fairly Quiet and would be very sedate when driving normally it would come down to personal taste,the Xforce to me was slightly in front but Terry preferred the Manta slightly more.

The Xforce had four nice tips straight cut nice and shinny.
The Manta had four tips angle cut like the originals.

Thanks Terry (again) for taking the time out to do some driveby's so we could all hear the comparison.

[jaykay]

I just had a good listen to two VE SS's that had just had cat backs fitted at MCE ,both cars were given a drive by driven hard to give an idea of sounds.Both systems were stainless cat backs one was a Manta one was an Xforce my thoughts were

Xforce-Idle was nice and deep not too loud,quality of the system was great nice and shinny welds looked good.On full throttle the Xforce had a nice clean note and one I would be very happy with but is defiantly not loud although Terry did say with extractors and cats would louden up.

Manta-Idle was also nice and deep and very similar to Xforce on full throttle also sounded very nice and maybe a touch louder it also had a deepish roar sound to it.

All in all they both sounded great they both were fairly Quiet and would be very sedate when driving normally it would come down to personal taste,the Xforce to me was slightly in front but Terry preferred the Manta slightly more.

The Xforce had four nice tips straight cut nice and shinny.
The Manta had four tips angle cut like the originals.
Thanks for the report Daz. I think when Matt posts up his dyno chart on the X Force catback systems increase some myths will be busted ...... :confused:

Just spoke with Matt and the drone is "non" existant. I will be driving Matt's SS shortly so I'll report back after that too....

John :)

[RED R8]

I know the extra Hp the Xforce cat back made and FARK ME its awesome but Matt should get to brag as he paid the bill.

[jaykay]

I know the extra Hp the Xforce cat back made and FARK ME its awesome but Matt should get to brag as he paid the bill.
I know too..... :hide:

[EXCESSV]

Thanks for the report Daz. I think when Matt posts up his dyno chart on the X Force catback systems increase some myths will be busted ...... :confused:
the VE SS/SSV etc are known to make good gains from a good exhaust system
thats been proved many times..
the myth is that the HSV VE apparently are making fark all gain

[VX11SS]

Hi Jay

We have put the stainless steel xforce 2.5" on our R8 and there is no drone at all, the sound is really nice not overly obnoxious and loud just right. I have a sound file up in the my ride section of it :)

If you want more info we went through Sonny he is a world of knowledge that man and will answer any questions you have.

:wave: Kelly
Thanks for the info Kelly

Cheers

Jay


On the VE the 3" xforce drones like a bitch for me , the twin 2 1/2 systems I have tested so far have shown next to no improvement over the std systems

Hey Delco
I'm only after a slightly better sound on the R8 auto - not fussed on making more power (nice if it did but not worrying me) My issue is its got to be close to drone free!! even the standard sytem does seem to have little drone but its not really irritating.
Have you driven any 2.5 xforce auto Ve's?
Cheers

[jaykay]

I'm only after a slightly better sound on the R8 auto - not fussed on making more power (nice if it did but not worrying me) My issue is its got to be close to drone free!!
Jay Kelly's R8 is an auto mate and she says there is little or no drone to speak of. I'm sure she will confirm this. She has the twin 2.5" X Force...

JK


Thanks for the report Daz. I think when Matt posts up his dyno chart on the X Force catback systems increase some myths will be busted ...... :confused:

Just spoke with Matt and the drone is "non" existant. I will be driving Matt's SS shortly so I'll report back after that too....

John :)
All I can say is very nice. Probably quieter than I expected but I am used to the rear "mufflerless" pipes on my car which is quite loud.

My biggest impression was the lack of drone. It is very very minimal and putting the foot down at 1600rpm in fourth is not a sad day for the ears.

This car goes really well just with the catback....

Look forward to seeing the dyno sheet tonight...

JK :)

[VYSSion]

Excellent to hear some great 1st hand reports there on inside noise, outside noise and also power gains. Good to play LS1-Mythbusters sometimes eh? :jester:

[Belzey]

the VE SS/SSV etc are known to make good gains from a good exhaust system
thats been proved many times..
the myth is that the HSV VE apparently are making fark all gain


Took mine to be put on the dyno today as all these people saying they make nothing or loose I wanted to see.

Well with the CAI and exhaust she has gone from 242.6 standard to 254.4 not too bad a gain for a 2.5". Next is tune so we will see what will come from that..

Got to say it was hard watching my baby be pushed so hard ;) I do have a video of it I will load it later :)

[Gonadman2]

The X-Force systems are regarded as "cheap but do the job" by the WRX community. I would be surprised if you didn't get good gains from one of these.

Anyone got a soundclip?

[Belzey]

Thanks for the info Kelly

Cheers

Jay



Hey Delco
I'm only after a slightly better sound on the R8 auto - not fussed on making more power (nice if it did but not worrying me) My issue is its got to be close to drone free!! even the standard sytem does seem to have little drone but its not really irritating.
Have you driven any 2.5 xforce auto Ve's?
Cheers


If there is a drone I am totally unaware of it, sounds like a v8, gain was made better than nothing. All in all it feels better to drive now and she actually sounds like a v8.

[mustanger]

If there is a drone I am totally unaware of it, sounds like a v8, gain was made better than nothing. All in all it feels better to drive now and she actually sounds like a v8.

Thats the way Kell, You show these men what it is all about.:)

[Frenchy VX SS]

VERY VERY happy with the twin 3" xforce system. To me its exactly what i wanted (i had actually heard it on a GTS thanks to Terry) and looks great. The center pipe does have flattened pipes as opposed to the manta system which has perfect bends and no restrictions.

But HERE is where we got a nice shock to blow alot of the myths out of the water. Remember also, this dyno reading was not fudged with temps etc etc. As Terry said to me when we did the runs, that everycar is different and it was proven with the other VE SS that had the manta system fitted. Before both cars had the system fitted, the only differences were that i have street tunas CAI and the other VE had just a K&N panel filter...... and the panel filter ran a higher rwHP than what mine did!!
I didnt stick around to see the results of the manta system (i just wanted to drive my car hehe) but heres my sheet.
Street tuna CAI + twin 3" xforce cat back.......that is all, no tune, stock headers, stock cats etc etc.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n244/angry_hatch/myvessdynorun.jpg

The car feels mint, sound just how i wanted it to and was good on the wallet. :D

HUGE thanks goes to terry. Went out of his way tenfold for me and as those that know him is an awsome bloke. Recommend him anytime :bow:


Now for a tune and off to the drags start of season :smilesandbanana:

**Now.................this is not to say everycar will pull this, nor is it to put people off from fitting certain systems!!! And just because 1 car pulls a figure, doesnt mean the other car isnt as fast. Dynos are tools. Not gospel!
Im still going to get headers and cats at some stage as the note DOES sound different and everything you add gives it a bit more in other places.
Be happy with what YOU spend your money on and with how the car sounds and goes to YOU and THATS whats important :D

[jaykay]

Excellent result there Matt and Terry....:bow:

And bang for YOUR buck is unreal...

Can't wait to see what the tune does to it.....Is that tomorrow ? :confused: :rofl:

[Frenchy VX SS]

Excellent result there Matt and Terry....:bow:

And bang for YOUR buck is unreal...

Can't wait to see what the tune does to it.....Is that tomorrow ? :confused: :rofl:

LOL still gotta tell the mrs what i've spent on this system hahaha :confused:

[RED R8]

Sounded sweet Matt.

[Frenchy VX SS]

Sounded sweet Matt.
Cheers daz, as did yours! That idle is porn!!
Haha had a laugh when you were leaving, can see where those skid marks came from now haha

[RED R8]

Cheers daz, as did yours! That idle is porn!!
Haha had a laugh when you were leaving, can see where those skid marks came from now haha

The old cam doesn't do well on hard first gear pulls.:)

[VX11SS]

If there is a drone I am totally unaware of it, sounds like a v8, gain was made better than nothing. All in all it feels better to drive now and she actually sounds like a v8.

Hi Kelly
Soz I wasnt doubting you, just wanted second opinion as everyone here knows the cars themselves seem to vary a lot and so may the same system.

After having one droning setup and giong back to stock I just want get it right lol
Cheers
Jay :)


Took mine to be put on the dyno today as all these people saying they make nothing or loose I wanted to see.

Well with the CAI and exhaust she has gone from 242.6 standard to 254.4 not too bad a gain for a 2.5". Next is tune so we will see what will come from that..

Got to say it was hard watching my baby be pushed so hard ;) I do have a video of it I will load it later :)

Hi Kelly
Forgot to ask did you get the 2.5 low volume Xforce or 2.5 medium volume setup?

Thanks
Jay

[Justice R8]

Took mine to be put on the dyno today as all these people saying they make nothing or loose I wanted to see.

Well with the CAI and exhaust she has gone from 242.6 standard to 254.4 not too bad a gain for a 2.5". Next is tune so we will see what will come from that..

Got to say it was hard watching my baby be pushed so hard ;) I do have a video of it I will load it later :)

Belz
Thats probably the closest to a genuine result. Most of the VE SS and VEssv make 220rwkw standard up to 240 rwkw. Your gain has been modest but probably closest to reality. The main thing is you enjoy your new sound.

Reports of 206 standard will be a car that has been well strapped down on its initial run or a dog.

I will eat an exhaust that makes 25rwkw on a standard VE

[jaykay]

Reports of 206 standard will be a car that has been well strapped down on its initial run or a dog.

I will eat an exhaust that makes 25rwkw on a standard VE
I thinks there will be some interesting replies to this comment.... :confused:

[BLACK 346]

I thinks there will be some interesting replies to this comment.... :confused:

As you can see earlier in the thread, he has been testing them
with sams performance, I reckon he is pretty safe :)

[TUFFIE]

Originally Posted by Justice R8
Reports of 206 standard will be a car that has been well strapped down on its initial run or a dog.

I will eat an exhaust that makes 25rwkw on a standard VE

Yup from what I have seen which is 4 diffferent VE'S on the same dyno after Exhaust I must agree with that comment...

[SS Enforcer]

I would love another 25rwkw's as well and will be getting a full x-force 3" system. I am not expecting a 25 rwkw difference with the cam I have allready. If it gets an extra 10-12 rwkw I would consider that a pretty good result.
I know what the Dyno sheet said, and have seen Thunder post up some similar results with a 3" catback system but I don't believe em sorry .

These VE's are pretty quirky in that they pull timing easily and could have anything going on in the computer. Dyno figures have been all over the place with them there has been no consistency unlike the ls1 that produced repeatable figures across a large section of cars.

cheers

[Curtis-R]

Top result there Matt and thanks for posting the dyno sheet.

Anyone running the X-Force 4 into 1 headers and cats yet? Thats where I reckon the real gains will be made.

[Brendo84]

i only paid $2100 for a full s/s custom built system but no high flow cats.

5k is far too rich


Who from ?


..... but that was on your SSZ I assume?? As Terry has already explained, VE is more complex and therefore more expensive.

Jkgmh, Genie did the work, u would of herd it on the cruise too.

Wonky, yes it was on my vz but there is no harm in asking them what the ve system is worth.. they have done a few of my mates cars

[jaykay]

Top result there Matt and thanks for posting the dyno sheet.

Anyone running the X-Force 4 into 1 headers and cats yet? Thats where I reckon the real gains will be made.
Click here for E R8 Full System (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=942377&postcount=158) :)

[Belzey]

Hi Kelly
Soz I wasnt doubting you, just wanted second opinion as everyone here knows the cars themselves seem to vary a lot and so may the same system.

After having one droning setup and giong back to stock I just want get it right lol
Cheers
Jay :)



Hi Kelly
Forgot to ask did you get the 2.5 low volume Xforce or 2.5 medium volume setup?

Thanks
Jay

Hey Jay

We got the loud (medium) volume setup :)

Dont blame you for wanting to get it right it is not the cheapest mistake to make if you end up hating the system you put on..

:wave: Kel :)

[EXCESSV]

Reports of 206 standard will be a car that has been well strapped down on its initial run or a dog.

I will eat an exhaust that makes 25rwkw on a standard VE
not sure what you mean by this :confused:

but anyway as you would know mate being in the industry for such a long time that there are many variables involved when it comes to dynos.
mine was 206rwkw standard and that was on a conservative dyno done by Dan @ chipmaster with the car strapped down tight. car is a manual
dan likes to strap it down real tight so there is NO movement of the car on the rear rollers.
i gained 25rwkw (231rwkw) from my pacemaker 4into1, 3" magnaflow cats, dual 3" with dual 2.5" rear section exhaust. all dyno runs done on the same dyno

my first stock run was a 216rwkw but the 2nd, 3rd and 4th run the VEs suffer bad from heatsoak and the runs were consistent 206rwkw so thats what i posted not exagerated figure of 216rwkw for bragging rights.

and i saw in person the differences small variables make on the same dyno.
as i was in a rush to leave Dans workshop as i had to go elsewhere while he tuned the car his son put it on the dyno coz Dan was out.
he didnt strap it down as much as dan, although strapped down none the less and probably as much as other ppl do, and my first run with exhaust i pulled 240rwkw....thats 34rwkw from the zorst...and the second run was a 239rwkw...so heatsoak nearly gone thanks to ceramic coated extractors

so you see 8rwkw difference just from the how much a car is strapped down on the dyno
the car is pulling a healthy 254rwkw after a tune and it will be on 2 different dynos in the next 2 weeks so will be good to see the differences.

other cars that Dan has had in there have been 190rwkw from a stock manual SSV and 178rwkw from a stock auto VE V8...not sure whether it was a SS or SSV

so before you go calling my car indirectly a dog get your facts right and think mate.
out of all ppl on this forum you should know that there are many variables when it comes to dyno figures and numbers can easily be exageratted

next time i go to a dyno i wont strap it down...just chocks at the front and i will pull 300rwkw then come on here and go my car better than everyone elses :soap:


As you can see earlier in the thread, he has been testing them
with sams performance, I reckon he is pretty safe :)well he must be right then coz they are the only place that is testing them and they have the only ve with a zorst on in oz.:rolleyes:

[Frenchy VX SS]

In the end, we could dyno the cars on every dyno in aust and people will still say there have been variables that made the power figure higher than another. Shootout mode was suppost to eliminate these things but i guess people will always find a way to find a fault.
And to be honest, there was NO reason for Terry to fudge or alter a dyno figure for me, as I had already bought the system regardless and he knew that dyno runs to me arent the be-all and end-all.
So why do we bother with rwkw outputs??

Like i said, in the end you need to be happy with what you have purchased and im very happy with what i have bought. :D

[EXCESSV]

In the end, we could dyno the cars on every dyno in aust and people will still say there have been variables that made the power figure higher than another. Shootout mode was suppost to eliminate these things but i guess people will always find a way to find a fault.

So why do we bother with rwkw outputs??

Like i said, in the end you need to be happy with what you have purchased and im very happy with what i have bought. :Dtotatlly agree mate.
i was speaking to the Dyno Dynamics installer at another workshop yesterday and he goes although the shootout mode provides accurate readings there are too many variables. same car will vary from dyno to dyno of the same type.
the way temps are measured, the way its strapped down, tyre pressures, etc.

in the end i am more than happy with the sound, quality and power gain from the exhaust.
alot of friends and ppl on the street comment on it and i have only had it 2days.
the work by dan with the tune etc is magic too...the car feels stronger and still has great road manners.

but when ppl come on and call my car a DOG for its apparent low power figure that shits me to death

[Frenchy VX SS]

Unfortunately some people believe that their car, their tune or their workshop is the only place that gives proper results. I goto terry because i trust his workmanship, and his advice. And because he has always dedicated the time to chat and spend time with his customers. Thats what makes me go back :)
And it seems thats the same with you EXCESSV with your workshop.
SO in the end both of us are happy with our workshop, and product.

But some feel the need to bag or prove wrong another workshops results, which is fine....just dont take it onboard or to heart mate :) The real results seem to have been what you have been told since you got the new system...that it looks, sounds and goes awsome!!!

[jaykay]

Click here for E R8 Full System (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=942377&postcount=158) :)
Here For VE SS Full X Force 2.5" (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=74056)

JK :)

[EXCESSV]

nicely said Silver VE SS
very true mate :bravo:

[SS Enforcer]

so you see 8rwkw difference just from the how much a car is strapped down on the dyno
the car is pulling a healthy 254rwkw after a tune and it will be on 2 different dynos in the next 2 weeks so will be good to see the differences.



Would be interested to see the results of others runs later. I remember a cpl years ago there was a guy that had his car modded and tuned and it made in the high 240's rwkw and he was rapt. At a dyno day his car pulled 226 rwkw on the SAME dyno and he was really pissed off and left in disgust.

Don't get too hung up on a dyno figure the main thing is it's your car and you drive it and are happy with it.

Would be interested to read any comments from Dan and the VE regarding exhausts as well.

cheers

[RED R8]

There are a small few on here that have a be all and end all fixation on dyno and track numbers , I measure my mods on personal satisfaction, service and how wide my smile is.

Dynos and track times have too many variables but personal satisfaction is the only definite ,drive it enjoy it hense my signature.

Sundays cruise is what its all about , getting out with a group of enthusiasts who all share the same interests we get to look and listen and enjoy our shinny pride and joys.

[Belzey]

There are a small few on here that have a be all and end all fixation on dyno and track numbers , I measure my mods on personal satisfaction, service and how wide my smile is.

Dynos and track times have too many variables but personal satisfaction is the only definite ,drive it enjoy it hense my signature.

Very well said :) and so very true.

[Curtis-R]

Here For VE SS Full X Force 2.5" (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=74056)

JK :)

Awsome thanks JK. ;)

[Justice R8]

totatlly agree mate.
i was speaking to the Dyno Dynamics installer at another workshop yesterday and he goes although the shootout mode provides accurate readings there are too many variables. same car will vary from dyno to dyno of the same type.
the way temps are measured, the way its strapped down, tyre pressures, etc.

in the end i am more than happy with the sound, quality and power gain from the exhaust.
alot of friends and ppl on the street comment on it and i have only had it 2days.
the work by dan with the tune etc is magic too...the car feels stronger and still has great road manners.

but when ppl come on and call my car a DOG for its apparent low power figure that shits me to death

You have misunderstood my comment of a dog. I didnt mean your car as such, more so the original tune. I have not seen a VE with cat protection off make less than 220. Cat protection is a big killer of power with these.

I will say it again. An exhaust WILL NOT make 25rwkw on a standard VE.

Sam is not the only one testing them but does make sure that his tests are comprehensive and accurate. He has just tested a system a guy built and had tested elsewhere. The other shop said it made 35 rwkw. The guy that built it didnt believe it so he flew to Syd with the exhaust and had Sam test it. It made 15 HP more over the standard system and 6rwhp more than a so called cheaper system.

The biggest difference will come if the standard exhaust system is damaged in anyway with restrictions such as blocked cat, or a loose baffle in the muffler which he has seen. Another point Sam made to me is he is constantly getting calls where people are being told to put bigger exhausts on and you increase power and bottom end torque. He has never ever seen any of his engines, from standard to full out race engines make more low down torque by increasing pipe size whilst chasing top end power. There is always a sacrifice. Another interesting exercise he performs is measuring the backpressure within each system. Back pressure on a standard system is around the 3lb mark. This back pressure helps the car down low. Test have shown that with zero back pressure it hurts the car down low.

Lets remember that 35rwkw is about 70fwhp. If an engine was that restricted you would be hurting the engine. Holden are not stupid, neither are there exhaust supplier. Has anyone else tested the backpressure. I would conservatively say for these type of power gains you will be looking in excess of 7lb backpressure in a standard exhaust system causing the sort of restriction needed to make the so called gains.


No offence but ceramic coated extractors wont stop heat soak. They may keep some of the engine bay temps down but understand the the combustion and high temp takes place in the cylinder and not in the exhaust. The exhaust just removes the burnt hot gasses, therefore heatsoak will be in the cyl heads and block from the combustion process. If the combustion chamber, top of the piston and inlet port were ceramic coated heatsoak woud be reduced as the coating is minimising heatsoak of the inlet charge through the inlet port and is also placing a barrier between the combustion process in the cylinder and the piston and combustion chamber itself.




Please remember I am not going by hearsay or SOTP meter, but would be curious to see how many others Dan has had the same sort of gains. The answer will be None. I dont care either way as I dont have a workshop or sell exhausts. All I want is people to be able to spend there money wisely. Exhausts are right up there with big throttle bodies on standard cars. Put them on because you like the look or the sound, not for massive power increases.

For $5k you could nearly get a cat back and cam done these days. Just food for thought. Sorry If I have upset you. That was not my intent

[VX11SS]

Hey Jay

We got the loud (medium) volume setup :)

Dont blame you for wanting to get it right it is not the cheapest mistake to make if you end up hating the system you put on..

:wave: Kel :)
Hi Kelly
Youve got the medium system with no drone?, Jeez I better not get the low volume one than it might be quieter than stock. I was going to order one today after listening to your sound file as it didnt sound too loud , sounded very nice too me and I thought you must have the quiet one!.

Not enough cars over here with the catbacks done for me to have a listen too, Ive come accross a guy up the road with an Xforce in his VE SSV auto, Im going to ambush him for a listen lol

:)

[jaykay]

I will say it again. An exhaust WILL NOT make 25rwkw on a standard VE.

Looks like this one has done that 206 to 231 ...:confused:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k37/Deano_22/EXCESSV/EXCESSV-tunechipmaster.jpg

[EXCESSV]

john it doesnt matter.
like talking to a brick wall

that graph means nothing coz only Sam provides comprehensive and accurate tests
dan knows nothing about tuning, running cars on dynos...nothing really...
APC know nothing about building performance cars, exhausts,etc....
sams the man!

in regards to the heatsoak thing...maybe heatsoak is the wrong word i dont know.
all i know is my first stock run was 216rwkw...then the following ones were all around the 206rwkw mark...the car was not turned off or nothing...4 in sequence.
lost 10rwkw
after the exhaust and with ceramic coated extractors i only lost 1rwkw consistently between the first run and the following runs.
to me thats a great improvement. call it heatsoak, call it voodoo call it whatever you want.

254rwkw, dog of a car and a pig to drive...overspent on exhaust, got the wrong tuner, etc....farkin sucks to be me



i have had enough of this crap...believe what you want to believe.
me i am still as happy with the exhaust as i was from the day i got it.
thats all that matters.

[Justice R8]

Looks like this one has done that 206 to 231 ...:confused:

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k37/Deano_22/EXCESSV/EXCESSV-tunechipmaster.jpg




and i saw in person the differences small variables make on the same dyno.
as i was in a rush to leave Dans workshop as i had to go elsewhere while he tuned the car his son put it on the dyno coz Dan was out.
he didnt strap it down as much as dan, although strapped down none the less and probably as much as other ppl do, and my first run with exhaust i pulled 240rwkw....thats 34rwkw from the zorst...and the second run was a 239rwkw

Just incase you missed it.:confused::confused::confused:

[LS1Grange]

me i am still as happy with the exhaust as i was from the day i got it.
thats all that matters.

Dean,

i think all the people in those factories along that closed in street when your foot slipped off the pedal yesterday would agree with ya, that your zorst kicks ass.

[EXCESSV]

Just incase you missed it.:confused::confused::confused:and just incase you skipped the part...when it wasnt strapped down properly it actually pulled 239rwkw....but dan strapped it down properly and it pulled 231rwkw...
so 231rwkw - 206rwkw = 25rwkw gain...exhaust only

my graph that John reposted if you have a look has the exhaust (black/blue line) at about 231rwkw

or is it not possible for ppl to admit they are wrong

[Justice R8]

john it doesnt matter.
like talking to a brick wall

that graph means nothing coz only Sam provides comprehensive and accurate tests
dan knows nothing about tuning, running cars on dynos...nothing really...
APC know nothing about building performance cars, exhausts,etc....
sams the man!

in regards to the heatsoak thing...maybe heatsoak is the wrong word i dont know.
all i know is my first stock run was 216rwkw...then the following ones were all around the 206rwkw mark...the car was not turned off or nothing...4 in sequence.
lost 10rwkw
after the exhaust and with ceramic coated extractors i only lost 1rwkw consistently between the first run and the following runs.
to me thats a great improvement. call it heatsoak, call it voodoo call it whatever you want.

254rwkw, dog of a car and a pig to drive...overspent on exhaust, got the wrong tuner, etc....farkin sucks to be me



i have had enough of this crap...believe what you want to believe.
me i am still as happy with the exhaust as i was from the day i got it.
thats all that matters.

Put your dummy back in. I have said nothing about Dans tuning abililty as I think he is probably one of the best tuners in the country, where did I say it is a pig to drive. As I said in my earlier comment you elected to take the word dog out of my comments but I said it was either well strapped down or a dog. You have now said it was well strapped down on the run with standard exhaust and not as firmly strapped on the run after the exhaust. You answered your own question. You didnt gain 35 fulll stop from just an exhaust. Even with it switching to the low octane table and pulling some timimg before the tune wouldnt give 35rwkw. (the more efficient an engine is the less timing need)

The key is that you are happy and that is what matters. The fact is an exhaust on the VE wont make 35rwkw unless there is a problem somewhere or a variable which you have now explained there was.

[EXCESSV]

my dummy is in thanks for that.
have you got your glasses on so you can read properly???

last time i say this...i NEVER said i gained 35RWKW from exhaust.
i said the run with the new exhaust not strapped down properly i got that figure but when dan checked it he strapped it down properly and i gained 25RWKW with the new zorst from the factory run 2 days before. thats what i have said and thats whats on the dyno sheet

25RWKW.....NOT 35RWKW...understand now?
hang on i will spell it....TWENTY FIVE REAR WHEEL KILOWATT GAIN

[jaykay]

Hey Justice R8 can you explain to me (from your wealth of experience) how a stock (with CAI only) VE 6 litre in manual can only get 190 rwkw on a dyno. I know there is a big variance in stock VE results but 190 seems low. Could a car be strapped down so tight to do this ? :confused:

This was on the same dyno that EXCESSV got a lowest reading of 206rwkw and highest of 216...

[RED R8]

my dummy is in thanks for that.
have you got your glasses on so you can read properly???

last time i say this...i NEVER said i gained 35RWKW from exhaust.
i said the run with the new exhaust not strapped down properly i got that figure but when dan checked it he strapped it down properly and i gained 25RWKW with the new zorst from the factory run 2 days before. thats what i have said and thats whats on the dyno sheet

25RWKW.....NOT 35RWKW...understand now?
hang on i will spell it....TWENTY FIVE REAR WHEEL KILOWATT GAIN

So what did you gain ??:confused:

[EXCESSV]

So what did you gain ??:confused:come on daz....if you look at my ride thread it has it all.
stock with chipmaster CAI = 206rwkw
Chipmaster CAI + full exhaust = 231rwkw (25rwkw gain from stock)
Chipmaster CAI + full exhaust + Chipmaster dyno tune = 254rwkw (48rwkw gain from stock)

[RED R8]

Hey Justice R8 can you explain to me (from your wealth of experience) how a stock (with CAI only) VE 6 litre in manual can only get 190 rwkw on a dyno. I know there is a big variance in stock VE results but 190 seems low. Could a car be strapped down so tight to do this ? :confused:

This was on the same dyno that EXCESSV got a lowest reading of 206rwkw and highest of 216...

Yesterday JK two VE SS's both stock one with CAI Pod set up and one with K&N panel filter both went on the same dyno back to back prior there new cat backs and one I believe made 18hp more than the other..go figure I would say JK yours may have been strapped well maybe very hot when you drove it in hence 190 .What fuel did you have in the car at the time??


come on daz....if you look at my ride thread it has it all.
stock with chipmaster CAI = 206rwkw
Chipmaster CAI + full exhaust = 231rwkw (25rwkw gain from stock)
Chipmaster CAI + full exhaust + Chipmaster dyno tune = 254rwkw (48rwkw gain from stock)

I got it TWENTY FIVE KILOWATTS FROM DA ZORST.

And I beleive it too.

[DVS VT Clubby]

Difilippo in melbourne makes a twin 3 inch system in S/S for the VE and he has retailers all round oz. I nkow his VZ twin 3 inch was about $3800

[Alex(AUS)]

Yesterday JK two VE SS's both stock one with CAI Pod set up and one with K&N panel filter both went on the same dyno back to back prior there new cat backs and one I believe made 18hp more than the other..

Which one made more?

Thanks,

Alex

[jaykay]

What fuel did you have in the car at the time??

BP Ultimate 98 I run Daz....

Just as well it wasn't 91 unleaded.... :confused:

[RED R8]

Which one made more?

Thanks,

Alex

Panel filter:hide:


BP Ultimate 98 I run Daz....

Just as well it wasn't 91 unleaded.... :confused:

Run it on the house of power dyno.

[jaykay]

Run it on the house of power dyno.
Will do Sunday...... :yup:

[RED R8]

Will do Sunday...... :yup:

Sorry mate wasn't sure if you were or not..

[Frenchy VX SS]

Panel filter:hide:


Yep thats right... $95 (if that) panel filter vs a $450 CAI set up.
Yet to find out what that other car made after the manta zorst was fitted, but just goes to show a few things doesnt it. BUT once again, i love the sound of that induction roar (should hear it scream on a dyno!!) and hence why I bought that also ;)
Maybe Terry tied down that panel filtered SS more than mine :confused:
:rofl:
J/K Terry ;)

[RED R8]

Yep thats right... $95 (if that) panel filter vs a $450 CAI set up.
Yet to find out what that other car made after the manta zorst was fitted, but just goes to show a few things doesnt it. BUT once again, i love the sound of that induction roar (should hear it scream on a dyno!!) and hence why I bought that also ;)
Maybe Terry tied down that panel filtered SS more than mine :confused:
:rofl:
J/K Terry ;)

I dont think the filter is a factor just showing how all cars are different.

[Frenchy VX SS]

I dont think the filter is a factor just showing how all cars are different.

True, but there are some big claims also about different CAI setups also.
Like you said Daz, it shows all cars are different and that its a combo of diferent things that give a different end result. :D

[Alex(AUS)]

True, but there are some big claims also about different CAI setups also.
Like you said Daz, it shows all cars are different and that its a combo of diferent things that give a different end result. :D

You should have swapped intakes/filter just to see ... it would have been mega interesting to see the results. Particularly when these results come from users of the products as opposed to shops that sell the gear. Oh well .. next time ..

Thanks,

Alex

[Justice R8]

Hey Justice R8 can you explain to me (from your wealth of experience) how a stock (with CAI only) VE 6 litre in manual can only get 190 rwkw on a dyno. I know there is a big variance in stock VE results but 190 seems low. Could a car be strapped down so tight to do this ? :confused:

This was on the same dyno that EXCESSV got a lowest reading of 206rwkw and highest of 216...


If it was on Dans dyno. ask him what the computer was doing to the tune for it to make that reading? What was the map reading on the 190 run. Be keen to see that one, was it getting full throttle?

CAI are good for cold air but they dont make 25 either just for the record. They help an untuned car with all the protections left on but no as many gains to be had on a tuned car. Same with the exhaust. I would like to see excessives graph without the Dyno dynamics logo over the start of the graph. Looks great that the tune has given it so much right across the range from the start of the run at 1500 to 4500 whereas the exhaust gave nothing at the start but gave plenty up top.

Just to give you an idea on dynos, yes a car can be overstrapped. if the tyre is distorted that bad from being strapped it will hurt the power. To use one of my cars as an example. I race on 295 semi comp pirelli tyres on Simmons rims. I dyno on 225 or 235 or 245 as hard as I can get compound on my light as hell Oz racing rims. Why? because one will read 470rwhp and one will read over 500rwhp. How? because the heavier the rim the harder to spin the stickier the tyre the more it sticks to the roller.


Things I need to know to be able to answer why it made 190rwkw are
was the run logged? If so what was
a. what timing did it have?
b. What was the air intake temp?
c. What was the map reading?
d. What was the backpressure reading on the exhust system

If the early part of your run is reading 101, 102 or 103kpa and the top end of your run is anything above 98, 99 means your intake system is fine.

AIT is ok anywhere around the 30 to 45 mark

If your timing is anywhere around the 19 to 22 mark it ok too

If your back pressure is anywhere between 1 to 3lb it is ok

The other thing to look at:
is your car the same as excessive or compare your car to one that is the same. i.e. same tyre size, same ratios, both autos or manuals then look to see what the terminal speed of the run is on the dyno. They should be exactly the same. If they are not it shows that one had slippage as they should both hit the limiter at the same speed. This is why Sam does as much of his testing on an engine dyno as the results are a lot more accurate with less variables coming into play.

The two cars that were tested with a panel filter and the CAI, it would be good to get the same readings as above for those two cars as well.

Hopefully your question was genuine as I have tried to genuinely answer it. If it is not then so be it, we will keep playing. Just remember that because it says 190 it doesnt mean it is a dog. We see people go from dyno to dyno and have massive differences. If you do all your changes on the same dyno, you will have a more realistic idea of what has worked. I dont try to be a smartass although it may come across that way. Some gains are just unrealistic. Not everycar out of holden has exactly the same tune or protections in it. That is where a lot of the huge variances have historically come from. What I can say about the VE is that Holden have got the tune a whole lot better than in previous models across a lot more cars.


You should have swapped intakes/filter just to see ... it would have been mega interesting to see the results. Particularly when these results come from users of the products as opposed to shops that sell the gear. Oh well .. next time ..

Thanks,

Alex

Alex this test has already been done as well. I would be happy to arrange a Saturday at Sams where people could show up and see the difference between some CAI, some alloy maf pipe, a K&n and a normal filter. The standard filter and alloy maf pipe work extremely well.

[RED R8]

Very informative post.

What are your thoughts on a OTR ??

[jaykay]

Hopefully your question was genuine as I have tried to genuinely answer it.
Thanks for your answer as my question was genuine. I'm having the car run on another dyno this Sunday so will try and get a. to d. of your questions above.

JK :)

[Justice R8]

Very informative post.

What are your thoughts on a OTR ??

Alright. Iis this a loaded question?

OTRCAI is a good thing. The PT OTR and the PT copy have been the best results I have seen although a little to small on the front surface area once you start getting up to the 460+rwhp. There are probably 100 types out there that I have seen tested but I would hazard a guess they wont be too disimilar. Do you have a glasser. I have a mould for one sitting in WA a guy made for me. You could make your own out of that if you want and give it a go. I think he even has one made sitting there for me.
That covers the VT to VZ which is what I think you are referring to. Would I put one on for $500 to $600. Only if I was chasing every single cracker I could get out of a car that had every mod I wanted to do and raced it all the time at the track, hence why the one he made me has sat in WA for 6 months.. If you are chasing a track time and only want to do it some times split the cost between a few of you and share it when you all go to the track. They are quick and easy to swap at the track. If you want it for looks or induction growl that a different story.

How about I find the guy that has mine and I make it the WA loan CAI for all the guys that want to go to the track now and then instead of everyone forking out the $500 bucks. Thats what Sam used to do with his carbon fibre one until someone crash their car and smashed it.


BTW I am only saying what others arent prepared to say on a public forum because they dont want to get yelled down. Plenty are seeing the same exhaust results I am commenting on, but we only ever seem to get these amazing stories of massive gains posted.

Excessive.
If I have offended you in anyway I apologise as that was not my intention.

[Alex(AUS)]

If it was on Dans dyno. ask him what the computer was doing to the tune for it to make that reading? What was the map reading on the 190 run. Be keen to see that one, was it getting full throttle?

CAI are good for cold air but they dont make 25 either just for the record. They help an untuned car with all the protections left on but no as many gains to be had on a tuned car. Same with the exhaust. I would like to see excessives graph without the Dyno dynamics logo over the start of the graph. Looks great that the tune has given it so much right across the range from the start of the run at 1500 to 4500 whereas the exhaust gave nothing at the start but gave plenty up top.

Just to give you an idea on dynos, yes a car can be overstrapped. if the tyre is distorted that bad from being strapped it will hurt the power. To use one of my cars as an example. I race on 295 semi comp pirelli tyres on Simmons rims. I dyno on 225 or 235 or 245 as hard as I can get compound on my light as hell Oz racing rims. Why? because one will read 470rwhp and one will read over 500rwhp. How? because the heavier the rim the harder to spin the stickier the tyre the more it sticks to the roller.


Things I need to know to be able to answer why it made 190rwkw are
was the run logged? If so what was
a. what timing did it have?
b. What was the air intake temp?
c. What was the map reading?
d. What was the backpressure reading on the exhust system

If the early part of your run is reading 101, 102 or 103kpa and the top end of your run is anything above 98, 99 means your intake system is fine.

AIT is ok anywhere around the 30 to 45 mark

If your timing is anywhere around the 19 to 22 mark it ok too

If your back pressure is anywhere between 1 to 3lb it is ok

The other thing to look at:
is your car the same as excessive or compare your car to one that is the same. i.e. same tyre size, same ratios, both autos or manuals then look to see what the terminal speed of the run is on the dyno. They should be exactly the same. If they are not it shows that one had slippage as they should both hit the limiter at the same speed. This is why Sam does as much of his testing on an engine dyno as the results are a lot more accurate with less variables coming into play.

The two cars that were tested with a panel filter and the CAI, it would be good to get the same readings as above for those two cars as well.

Hopefully your question was genuine as I have tried to genuinely answer it. If it is not then so be it, we will keep playing. Just remember that because it says 190 it doesnt mean it is a dog. We see people go from dyno to dyno and have massive differences. If you do all your changes on the same dyno, you will have a more realistic idea of what has worked. I dont try to be a smartass although it may come across that way. Some gains are just unrealistic. Not everycar out of holden has exactly the same tune or protections in it. That is where a lot of the huge variances have historically come from. What I can say about the VE is that Holden have got the tune a whole lot better than in previous models across a lot more cars.



Alex this test has already been done as well. I would be happy to arrange a Saturday at Sams where people could show up and see the difference between some CAI, some alloy maf pipe, a K&n and a normal filter. The standard filter and alloy maf pipe work extremely well.


Good post ... very interesting ...

I would be happy to come and have a look ... I have a BMC filter in mine that is all ... I cant say that I "felt" any real difference really but they are nice filters ... What do you mean about an alloy maf pipe? Do you mean one that removes the resonator but leaves the standard air box? Would a straighter plastic/rubber pipe work better than the standard setup?

Thanks,

Alex

[Frenchy VX SS]

Nice posts there Justice.
Thanks :D

[Justice R8]

Good post ... very interesting ...

I would be happy to come and have a look ... I have a BMC filter in mine that is all ... I cant say that I "felt" any real difference really but they are nice filters ... What do you mean about an alloy maf pipe? Do you mean one that removes the resonator but leaves the standard air box? Would a straighter plastic/rubber pipe work better than the standard setup?

Thanks,

Alex


Yes, removes the resonator but connects to the maf and uses the standard air box. It was put onto a GTS that just had a cam change. The customer wanted it because it looked good. It was to be part of the test. The BMC is a good filter and your SOTP was right.

There is currently a whole lot of testing going on that well hit the public domain soon. I am just trying to save some people some money by giving some insights to what I have seen to be fact.

The same happened when Sam did all the header tests on the LS1's. Big numbers and gains were thrown around. Sam tested them and everybody claiming big gains went quite then after a while the big gains started hitting the forum again.

BTW
The only one that has stepped up and have been happy to send two systems for Sam to test, a 2.5 and a 3inch and return has been Sureflo and one other who does not want to be named. Anything else has been bought for the test.

Anyone that wants there big VE kw system tested feel free to contact Sam direct or PM me. This applies to Exhaust or CAI. The only condition is that the results will become public. Anyone can be there when the test is done if there are any doubts. cant be any fairer than that.

[Uncle Tone]

Anyone that wants there big VE kw system tested feel free to contact Sam direct or PM me. This applies to Exhaust or CAI. The only condition is that the results will become public. Anyone can be there when the test is done if there are any doubts. cant be any fairer than that.

I would put up the UTCAI for a test, but I already know the gains.

0 RWKW :bawl:

[Alex(AUS)]

Yes, removes the resonator but connects to the maf and uses the standard air box. It was put onto a GTS that just had a cam change. The customer wanted it because it looked good. It was to be part of the test. The BMC is a good filter and your SOTP was right.

There is currently a whole lot of testing going on that well hit the public domain soon. I am just trying to save some people some money by giving some insights to what I have seen to be fact.

The same happened when Sam did all the header tests on the LS1's. Big numbers and gains were thrown around. Sam tested them and everybody claiming big gains went quite then after a while the big gains started hitting the forum again.

BTW
The only one that has stepped up and have been happy to send two systems for Sam to test, a 2.5 and a 3inch and return has been Sureflo and one other who does not want to be named. Anything else has been bought for the test.

Anyone that wants there big VE kw system tested feel free to contact Sam direct or PM me. This applies to Exhaust or CAI. The only condition is that the results will become public. Anyone can be there when the test is done if there are any doubts. cant be any fairer than that.

When/where is the test? I just noticed that you are in Syndey .... video conference / webcast? :D

Alex

[smokiebbear]

Well i don't have a VE but i would like to add my 2 c to this thread. This thread rocks for starters, there is loads of useful info on here.

Secondly the reason i put an aftermarket exhaust on my car was not just for power gains it was mainly cause i love v8's. The sound they make when they are factory and designed to not wake the neighbours every morning when you start your car really sux. How good is it to be driving down the road with the windows down on a cruise and hear your v8 purring along? FANTASTIC! Every day i start my car i sit back on listen to how frickin awesome it sounds and even though mine only cost $2200 for a full system including headers and hi flows on my VX, in 2 years time (once car is all paid off) i fully intend to buy a VE or similar model HSV and would gladly spend 5 grand on the exhaust.

I think what some people don't understand here is that material is expensive, they take a long time to make as has been stated and you pay for QUAILTY!

As has been said here you get what you pay for the big question is do you want to buy the poor quality parts to start with and have to replace them in the near future or do you do it RIGHT the first time? I know what i would do.

cheers - matt

[RED R8]

Well i don't have a VE but i would like to add my 2 c to this thread. This thread rocks for starters, there is loads of useful info on here.

Secondly the reason i put an aftermarket exhaust on my car was not just for power gains it was mainly cause i love v8's. The sound they make when they are factory and designed to not wake the neighbours every morning when you start your car really sux. How good is it to be driving down the road with the windows down on a cruise and hear your v8 purring along? FANTASTIC! Every day i start my car i sit back on listen to how frickin awesome it sounds and even though mine only cost $2200 for a full system including headers and hi flows on my VX, in 2 years time (once car is all paid off) i fully intend to buy a VE or similar model HSV and would gladly spend 5 grand on the exhaust.

I think what some people don't understand here is that material is expensive, they take a long time to make as has been stated and you pay for QUAILTY!

As has been said here you get what you pay for the big question is do you want to buy the poor quality parts to start with and have to replace them in the near future or do you do it RIGHT the first time? I know what i would do.

cheers - matt

Wouldn't it be great though to have a well tested PROVEN system that also sounds great and may even be a good price.Its awesome to see some testing done and some real world answers hitting the forum.

[smokiebbear]

Wouldn't it be great though to have a well tested PROVEN system that also sounds great and may even be a good price.Its awesome to see some testing done and some real world answers hitting the forum.

I agree with that 100%. I think in time the price may come down like everything else does but most systems will increase power substantially with an edit, correct me if i am wrong but aren't the engines tuned to run with the exhaust the come out with as standard so changing the exhaust primarily will only result in relatively small gains, yet if you had edited the same car then did the exhaust the gains should be more substantial? It would be great to see more results on based on this as i think it would make quite a difference in opinions in relation to getting the exhaust done.

Would anyone here honestly change their exhaust and not get an edit to go with it? We all know how bad Holden factory tunes are and i don't think there would be many members here that wouldn't change exhaust systems without editing their pcm.

cheers - matt

[Justice R8]

I agree with that 100%. I think in time the price may come down like everything else does but most systems will increase power substantially with an edit, correct me if i am wrong but aren't the engines tuned to run with the exhaust the come out with as standard so changing the exhaust primarily will only result in relatively small gains, yet if you had edited the same car then did the exhaust the gains should be more substantial? It would be great to see more results on based on this as i think it would make quite a difference in opinions in relation to getting the exhaust done.

Would anyone here honestly change their exhaust and not get an edit to go with it? We all know how bad Holden factory tunes are and i don't think there would be many members here that wouldn't change exhaust systems without editing their pcm.

cheers - matt

You would be surprised how many people get an exhaust without a tune. probably 90% of the people that buy a a VT to VE are more than happy with the power, they like owning a V8 and want the sound of a V8.

Contrary to popular belief, a guy in a backyard that has spent 5 grand on some software doesnt always necessarily no more than GMH about how to tune these cars. Just because we read it on the internet, doesnt make it true. Holden are not stupid. They have used the same engine from VT to early VZ yet we have seen power gains from the base 220kw up to 297kw. This wasnt luck or learning how to tune. They could have launched the VT with the 297kw no problems at all. But where would they have gone from there. They would have had to bring the engines they have released now out back then in the VX as every model needs an increase to keep interest. Hence it was easier back then to make power as they were modestly tuned from the factory quite fact with little timing. Now they are a lot closer to the money. My wifes VZ clubby was a classic. It was a dog ( a real dog on the road, not a strapped down dog:) ) Sam drive it for 2 weeks whilst I was overseas. When I got back he commented it was a dog. So we ran it up on the dyno. 328rwhp. That had me scratching my head. He was just laughing saying told you a dyno number doesnt make a fast car. I grabbed his laptop and logged the run. It was pulling timing out everywhere but making a big top end number. Why did it feel so bad on the road. It pulled timing out everywhere. Back to zero in some points. I dont know how to tune myself but I do know how to turn protections off roughly so I grabbed the laptop and did it. We took it for a drive and it turned from a dog to a rocketship within a couple of minutes. Sam congratulated me and said I was now as good as half the people out there charging for tunes. Just turning protections of will liven the hell out of a car. Like adjusting the line pressure in the box to make it shift better or harder.

A good example is a Cross 8 Sam did for a customer. It was the Same as my VZ. Made great power but felt sluggish. After Sam had spent a fair bit of time looking at the tune he said to the guy this isnt going to make any more top end. Tuned, turned the protection off and it made not one more HP. The guy took it for a drive and told Sam he must have a problem with the Dyno as it felt 50 hp better with his SOTP meter. The guy was over the moon.

Delco
How many other peoples tunes have you unlocked that have been basically standard tunes with protections turned off? I bet there is a few. I know I have seen a lot logged.

[Fudgey]

If there was such a massive gain from that exhaust; 25rwkW I believe? Can someone explain the Dyno graph? 253.7 kW, but Max Torque = 488.2 ?? Stock = 530 Nm

Am I missing something?

From my own experience, CAI + Full Tune on my GTS, it went from 238rwkW to 261rwkW - but torque went to 620 Nm

Good client of mine has an identical setup but has added full Difillipo 3". Power gain over mine was around 3-4 kW can't remember exact figure, and Torque maybe 7-10 Nm - very modest gains, car did feel stronger at higher revs and the sound is just awesome. But big power gains there are not!

Just my 2c worth.

Dave

[Alex(AUS)]

If there was such a massive gain from that exhaust; 25rwkW I believe? Can someone explain the Dyno graph? 253.7 kW, but Max Torque = 488.2 ?? Stock = 530 Nm

Am I missing something?

From my own experience, CAI + Full Tune on my GTS, it went from 238rwkW to 261rwkW - but torque went to 620 Nm

Good client of mine has an identical setup but has added full Difillipo 3". Power gain over mine was around 3-4 kW can't remember exact figure, and Torque maybe 7-10 Nm - very modest gains, car did feel stronger at higher revs and the sound is just awesome. But big power gains there are not!

Just my 2c worth.

Dave

I think the torque figure may have something to do with the different diff gears used in the SS / HSV ... I don’t know ... someone with dyno experience will be able to elaborate...

How does your car feel after the tune? Is it a big improvement? Who did the tune for you? I would like to do mine soon...

How can you say that the car felt stronger up top when there was only 3-4kw in it? Surely, you wouldn’t be able to feel that...

Thanks,

Alex

[RED R8]

Delco
How many other peoples tunes have you unlocked that have been basically standard tunes with protections turned off? I bet there is a few. I know I have seen a lot logged.


A good mate of mine recently paid about $1500 for a full custom tune as he felt the first tune could be better then later took the car back to the original tuner who checked the new $1500 tune (unlocked) to find that the only change that had been made was the cat protection had been turned off rather than set at 0 as the first tuner had done that was the only change:rofl::rofl:.
Not a bad way to blow $1500.

[Fudgey]

I think the torque figure may have something to do with the different diff gears used in the SS / HSV ... I don’t know ... someone with dyno experience will be able to elaborate...

How does your car feel after the tune? Is it a big improvement? Who did the tune for you? I would like to do mine soon...

How can you say that the car felt stronger up top when there was only 3-4kw in it? Surely, you wouldn’t be able to feel that...

Thanks,

Alex

Sonny did my tune, huge improvement, worth every single $.

The SS is 530 Nm stock, (Holden Spec) so this car according to that Dyno went backwards to the tune of 42 Nm despite making like 35 extra rwkW, how? Like I said, am I missing something?

HSV is 550 Nm stock and mine gained approx 70 Nm. The other GTS didn't gain much over mine form the exhaust but it sure didn't go backwards - and it did feel stronger higher in the rev range, I drove it, and thats how it felt. That car has now had the CAM done. It goes REAL hard!


Cheers
Dave

[Frenchy VX SS]

The ve ss came out with 270kw and 530nm at the motor...not wheels.

[Alex(AUS)]

Sonny did my tune, huge improvement, worth every single $.

The SS is 530 Nm stock, (Holden Spec) so this car according to that Dyno went backwards to the tune of 42 Nm despite making like 35 extra rwkW, how? Like I said, am I missing something?

HSV is 550 Nm stock and mine gained approx 70 Nm. The other GTS didn't gain much over mine form the exhaust but it sure didn't go backwards - and it did feel stronger higher in the rev range, I drove it, and thats how it felt. That car has now had the CAM done. It goes REAL hard!


Cheers
Dave

Hi Dave,

What I meant was ... dynos cannot accurately quote a torque figure because of many factors such as diff ratios, rim sizes, tyre profile etc ... the difference in ratios between HSV and SS mean that you cannot directly quote or compare their figures or at-engine numbers. I dont know if there is a way to compensate for diff ratio ... I am sure someone with more dyno knowledge can elaborate ...

I have been hearing good things about Sonny but I live in Melbourne ... There is a white GTS in one of Sonnys posts with CAI, Tune and Difillipos that he was aiming for 280rwkw ... http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=71059&page=3 and http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=71059&page=4 There must be some power in the exhaust (or a freak motor) ... that is a 12rwkw difference from yours now and up to 19 if he got it to 280???(certainly not worth the cash if you want it for power alone).

What I was trying to say with the other point was that I wouldnt think you could feel 3-4rwkw ... it is strange that you could feel that ... perhaps it was just the sound ...

Thanks,

Alex

[mce]

If there was such a massive gain from that exhaust; 25rwkW I believe? Can someone explain the Dyno graph? 253.7 kW, but Max Torque = 488.2 ?? Stock = 530 Nm

Am I missing something?

From my own experience, CAI + Full Tune on my GTS, it went from 238rwkW to 261rwkW - but torque went to 620 Nm

Good client of mine has an identical setup but has added full Difillipo 3". Power gain over mine was around 3-4 kW can't remember exact figure, and Torque maybe 7-10 Nm - very modest gains, car did feel stronger at higher revs and the sound is just awesome. But big power gains there are not!

Just my 2c worth. Dave
the gts has a diff ratio of 3.73 and the ss is 3.46 which is why the gts makes more torque
an engine dyno has a 1to1 direct drive wheras rolling road dyno has to convert engine to transmission to differrentail to tyre diameter to dyno and depending on what drive gear , what diff gears and what tyre diameter you will get a differant rwtq/rwhp

there are so many varables to dyno results , to give you an example a few years back i was doing some r&d on my vx clubsport it made a consistont 380rwhp day in day out about 2 weeks after the last dyno i put it back on the dyno and to my disbeleaf it droped 50hp ,after a couple of hours of head scratching i thought the only thing i had changed was the rims and tyres , so i put the orginal tyres back on and low and behold made 50 hp

[smokiebbear]

Contrary to popular belief, a guy in a backyard that has spent 5 grand on some software doesnt always necessarily no more than GMH about how to tune these cars. Just because we read it on the internet, doesnt make it true. Holden are not stupid. They have used the same engine from VT to early VZ yet we have seen power gains from the base 220kw up to 297kw. This wasnt luck or learning how to tune. They could have launched the VT with the 297kw no problems at all.

What i mean is that it's a well known fact Holden has be de-tuning the motors from the specs that say the corvettes run to put them in our cars here. I know Holden could have made those numbers from the start and as you have said where would they go form there, it would be hard for them to justify charging an extra 40 grand for their HSV models without substanial power gains etc. All i meant was Holden have put in a quite conservative tune compared to what the motor is actually capable of.

Although i still believe if your going to modify the exhaust because you want power gains then you shouldn't do one without the other. Edits and exhausts go together like Strawberries and cream, which is why i was refering to having both done if you want substantial power gains over a bog stock standard tune and exhaust.

When i had my edit done the car was so much more responsive but after my exhusts went on the power gain was so much more impressive (using the bum in the seat o metre).

Anyhow all that aside i still believe a v8 is not a v8 if it doesn't sound like one!

So if you own one put a decent bloody exhaust on it!

cheers - matt

[EXCESSV]

Excessive.
If I have offended you in anyway I apologise as that was not my intention.didnt offend me mate.
i gave you the figures proven on a dyno from a reputable tuner...
all figures done on the same dyno...stock, exhaust then tune.

just to finally prove the point...
car was on dyno as part of competition at the Perth Cruise DVD Viewing....
pulled 357.4rwhp (266rwkw)
12rwkw more than on Dans dyno after he tuned it.
many factors could have been the cause of this and i am not gonna try.
both dyno dynamics dynos.

and for the record with that figure i won the NA Bolt on 6L class :dance:

[jaykay]

pulled 357.4rwhp (266rwkw)
Excellent result there Dean, plenty of witnesses to that one mate.. :)

[EXCESSV]

Excellent result there Dean, plenty of witnesses to that one mate.. :)even Dan :p

[Alex(AUS)]

didnt offend me mate.
i gave you the figures proven on a dyno from a reputable tuner...
all figures done on the same dyno...stock, exhaust then tune.

just to finally prove the point...
car was on dyno as part of competition at the Perth Cruise DVD Viewing....
pulled 357.4rwhp (266rwkw)
12rwkw more than on Dans dyno after he tuned it.
many factors could have been the cause of this and i am not gonna try.
both dyno dynamics dynos.

and for the record with that figure i won the NA Bolt on 6L class :dance:

Top result ... congrats on the win EXCESSV!

Alex

[INSINR8R]

ok so instead of reading through 16 pages, has anyone just done it like half here and half there. Lets say a cat back, then the headers and cats at a later stage. Would be easier than just shelling out 5k then bitching about how expensive it was.

But if someone has had this idea already, plase refer it to me.

[Fudgey]

the gts has a diff ratio of 3.73 and the ss is 3.46 which is why the gts makes more torque
an engine dyno has a 1to1 direct drive wheras rolling road dyno has to convert engine to transmission to differrentail to tyre diameter to dyno and depending on what drive gear , what diff gears and what tyre diameter you will get a differant rwtq/rwhp

there are so many varables to dyno results , to give you an example a few years back i was doing some r&d on my vx clubsport it made a consistont 380rwhp day in day out about 2 weeks after the last dyno i put it back on the dyno and to my disbeleaf it droped 50hp ,after a couple of hours of head scratching i thought the only thing i had changed was the rims and tyres , so i put the orginal tyres back on and low and behold made 50 hp

All makes sense, I wasn't trying to compare SS vs HSV I know the setup is different, from what I have experienced any mods that give a power increase usually increases Torque as well, that was certainly the case with mine, but I have little mechanical knowledge and there are some pretty cluey guys here hence the 'what am I missing' just interesting to see all the different results

Cheers
Dave

[Alex(AUS)]

All makes sense, I wasn't trying to compare SS vs HSV I know the setup is different, from what I have experienced any mods that give a power increase usually increases Torque as well, that was certainly the case with mine, but I have little mechanical knowledge and there are some pretty cluey guys here hence the 'what am I missing' just interesting to see all the different results

Cheers
Dave

Thats cool ... that is why we try to help eachother ...

ALex

[MELMAN888]

I though I would cut in on the topic of Manta Mufflers. I had Mantas fitted on my VU SS Ute, 2.5 inch stainless steel pipes with Pacemaker 4 into 1 Extractors with no rear muffler, by Shaun at Raceflo in 2002. This was an unreal sounding system. It was a loud clean note that cracked and suffered no droning, which in my opion is the mark of a great exhaust. I was so happy with it I want to get it fitted to my new ride, a 2007 SS V sedan. Only problem is Raceflo I believe is shut due to the guys heading north for $$$ from the mining companies, which would no doubt be adding to the cost of fitting these systems, today. Anyone know where I could get a similar setup in Perth Metro?

[HM Headers]

Hi Guys,

Went to the local exhaust guy today to get a quote on a new exhaust. HM 4-1 extractors, High Flow cat's, Dual 3" Stainless exhaust with Manta mufflers (I've never heard of them), and wanted $5k for the lot! I laughed and then he said that he could do it for whatever I can get in Perth...

Just thought you would enjoy my little story.:rofl:

Based on this pricing, you are paying about $3000.00 for the 3" Cat back exhaust system alone.
About $1200.00 more than our current 2 1/2" system.

Regards,

Cameron.

[vlcalais2005]

Gonadman2

What exhaust place quoted you on this price as i live in port so curios to know

[MYVYSS]

at a guess 18 months later I am sure some things have changed...Holy Thread Mining Batman....

[vlcalais2005]

Its all
MELMAN888 fault haha

[iloveholden]

I though I would cut in on the topic of Manta Mufflers. I had Mantas fitted on my VU SS Ute, 2.5 inch stainless steel pipes with Pacemaker 4 into 1 Extractors with no rear muffler, by Shaun at Raceflo in 2002. This was an unreal sounding system. It was a loud clean note that cracked and suffered no droning, which in my opion is the mark of a great exhaust. I was so happy with it I want to get it fitted to my new ride, a 2007 SS V sedan. Only problem is Raceflo I believe is shut due to the guys heading north for $$$ from the mining companies, which would no doubt be adding to the cost of fitting these systems, today. Anyone know where I could get a similar setup in Perth Metro?

The manta exhaust system is a great system...my dads got a manta system on his 6L SS...sounds so deep and clear but drone free :bow:

Work was done by Don at Perth Exhaust Center...great bloke with heaps of knowledge and experience....they are in Vic park if im not mistaken. Give them a call mate.

[ve/ss]

The manta exhaust system is a great system...my dads got a manta system on his 6L SS...sounds so deep and clear but drone free :bow:

Work was done by Don at Perth Exhaust Center...great bloke with heaps of knowledge and experience....they are in Vic park if im not mistaken. Give them a call mate.

X 2, go and see him if you want a drone free system on a ve.

[Karratha_4x4]

Typical,

up here it's a joke, get over charged for everything then they all sook because you go to Perth!

I'm taking my car to Bath Brothers in Karratha when i get it to see what they will quote me on an exhaust system and a tune on the dyno, be very interesting to see......

[IR8TE]

Well $5k is a little heavy, i do relise this post is almost 3yrs old but just for a idea of whats out there these days i got a full X-Force system 1 3/4 headers high flow cats (100cel) and twin 2 1/2 system (no it wasnt cheap chines SH1T). This was worth about $3g maybe less fitted. Now my point is i did get what i wanted and paid for and yes it does the job for the time being BUT it does sound a little off when ya nail it. Drive it like a granny no prob, it will sound like $5g.. As stated above u get what ya pay for and next time i want a betta note, so a little more coin will be expected..... End of the day no regrets im only a newbie to this all and paying for my lessons learnt...:)

[SSN8TER]

Im pretty sure you can pick up a Di Filippo system of a forum sponser for cheaper than that.

[Nightrain]

Bolton Performance via ebay quoted me $1995 for HM headers, cats, twin 3 inch for VE SS ute

[Wonky]

These days well under 5k buys you a full KPM 3" system with HPC headers - the KPM 3" sounds the duck's guts!! :goodjob:

[propane]

Will be picking up my twin 3" xforce tommorrow.
Why did i purchase this system..??

1- Cost (was cheaper than other 3" systems and the mrs doesnt justify $$ spent on my car)
2 - I have had the china spec copies of xforce systems on my wrx (read: 3" TBE for $800! and still managed to get the same power as people who had spent $2000 on the same system) and have never had a problem with the quality or fitment.
3 - I was given a drive in a GTS with the same system and to me it sounded perfect.


If you want a cheap system, then get one. If you want an expensive system then get one of them. At the end of the day, what people spend their money on, they have the reasons behind it. If they are happy with their choice then let them be!!
Some will say spending $5000 on a set of 20" for their VE would be stupid, other will think it is much better than spending $5000 on a exhaust system.....
Thats what makes modifiying so good.... people have different ideas, views and project choices.
So lets just let those who want to spend $$ on what they want do so hey ??
Justified or not.... i dont really think people have the right to say what people should be spending their money on.

That was well said... You spend to your budget.

[Wonky]

That was well said... You spend to your budget.

Amen! :goodjob: And tastes of course!!

[KrisR]

5K got me a full Di Filippo system (headers, cats and catback) supply and fitted with the original CV8Z tips put back on, OTRCAI and a custom mafless tune.

Stock Power 173rwkw, Stock Torque ~440Nm
Tuned Power 235rwkw, Tuned Torque ~590Nm
Owners smile when he picked up his car after hearing how the DF system sounds and feeling how it turns the tires now, priceless.

This is ofcourse a VZ, not VE but my 2c to the 5k debate. Money is only worth how it makes you feel.