[WHEELS] BUSTED: BOSS 320kW FPV GT & 300kW F6! ***PICS***

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Cant believe nobody has posted this yet.
Sounds amazing!!! Looks like Ford hasnt forgotten about its fans after all.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s50/ssj_jaypee/WheelsCover.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s50/ssj_jaypee/Wheels2.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s50/ssj_jaypee/Wheels3.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s50/ssj_jaypee/Orion4.jpg
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s50/ssj_jaypee/Orion5.jpg


Looks like HSV will finally have to watch its back after all these years of no competition!
These new models look very hot also.

[falcon coupe]

Great to see the Orion making some bold moves, this should help level the playing field ! :bow:

[gsw]

I think it is the hottest new age falcon ever.

[Danv8]

Damn if they look that good in the flesh I might even change camps for my new car next year.

[wagnman]

You guys have gotta be kidding!
That has to be the ugliest falcon ever made!
Every thing from the windscreen back looks ok but that front is just absolutly ridiculously ugly.

:spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::s pew::spew::spew:

Notice in the fine print that there will be a 6.2 litre motor giving the claimed 320kw and a "shorter stroke" 5.8 litre version will give 280kw. They are following hSV's lead prettly darn closley. I guess when HSV bring out thr GTSR with the LS7 in it that Ford will respond with a GT-PR or something with a 7l too.

I see they are going back to useing a pushrod engine too. looks like they cant beat on about their "high tech" quad cam V8 any more.LOL!

All up though itll be great to see some more meaty falcons on the street to help us LSX folks stir up the ricers!

Go the Aussie muscle!!!

[GTS_300_Coupe]

Its also interesting to read that with the Orion in 2010, Ford will drop the current 5.4 litre quad cam V8 for 2 newer versions, a 6.2 litre and 5.8 litre PUSHROD V8s.

[XLR8 V8]

Cant believe nobody has posted this yet.



They have actually :yup: Several threads too

[macca_779]

the numbers are one thing but lets see how well they put it to the ground. Things do look good for the falcon though.

[heavychevy]

Saw the pics a couple of days ago.

When it comes to the front end, even the Ford boys in the office were scratching their heads.... WAY over done and it reminds me of something dopey like a wrestlers mask. Interesting the review described it as a racoons mask and it's a very lame attempt at ' upping the visual aggro '.
Ford badge, GT badge , giant logo on the bottom grill and more FPV badges on the front guards. And to top it off...put white stripes on it. Surprised they didn't reserect the Tickford twin blade spoiler.
75k for the GT-P, you're certainly guaranteed to be the super mario in your suburb.

Would be interesting to see a chop with the black ( grey ) area between the headlights / foglights slightly lighter or darker than the body colour.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

You guys have gotta be kidding!
That has to be the ugliest falcon ever made!
Every thing from the windscreen back looks ok but that front is just absolutly ridiculously ugly.

:spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::spew::s pew::spew::spew:

Notice in the fine print that there will be a 6.2 litre motor giving the claimed 320kw and a "shorter stroke" 5.8 litre version that they dont give a power figur for. Lets guess how much power the 5.8 wil have, how about 280kw?

I recon the 6.2l version will be stacks dearer too.

I see they are going back to useing a pushrod engine too. looks like they cant beat on about their "high tech" quad cam V8 any more.LOL!


There are 2 reasons for their switch back to pushrod.
- It will be more lighter and compact
- It will be mass produced globally for different manufacturers under Ford so that they can cut down on expenses.

Their quad cam BOSS V8 was actually a pretty impressive unit.
Essentially a pickup truck motor with Cobra heads, it pumped out more torque than much larger capacity Chev motors.
Don't forget one of the worlds most fastest cars the Ford GT uses this same engine essentially abeit modified.

[heavychevy]

also, hard to tell if the detail in the doors lines up with the panel fit of the rear bumper / clip

[JohnS]

Great to see the Orion making some bold moves, this should help level the playing field ! :bow:

The ls3 will be in the next HSV and that will be 430hp and 6.2L. It will be intersting to see how much more tq this ls3 has than the Boss:)

[hypdupvx]

the fronts looks disgusting :| Need to take to it with a sledge hammer :)
From side look very similar to the ve or the mitsi 380.. but on a plus the motors sound good..

[Invasionss]

I think by 2010, HSV will have some great surprises ready for the FPV range of HSV hunters given the fact that they are showing & telling everyone what they are up to & will be selling.

I can't work out the blackout sections around the front headlights down to the fog/drive lights, nor the FPV lower logo grille!
But then again, I can't & many of the rest of you will to, don't understand what the hell ford are doing. When they released the BA (Big Arse Model), they had a great, hang on, well whole new range of I6's/turbos & 2 options of quad cam V8's. No they are chucking all that away & spending more money to try & keep up.

And they said a number of years ago that holden & ford will not play the "Power War Anymore"!!!
Also once again, both HSV & FPV make all their cars looking the same. Why no variety to easily tell apart?

[JohnS]

Their quad cam BOSS V8 was actually a pretty impressive unit. Essentially a pickup truck motor with Cobra heads, it pumped out more torque than much larger capacity Chev motors.
Don't forget one of the worlds most fastest cars the Ford GT uses this same engine essentially abeit modified.

Yes it is essential a pickup truck engine. Not a performance engine.

The 550hp the Ford GT has is not impressive for a supercharged 5.4L in a supercar. The Merc SLR gets 617hp with the same capacity and only three valves per cyl:) Merc has since made the three valve redudant in most models and replaced it with 4 valve engines.

BTW if Motor got 20% of their predictions right they would reach a new high and qualify to write horoscopes:)

I cant beleive Ford would not use the TwinForce 5.0L V8 they have formally announced. There is speculation that the 3.5L V6 TwinForce (twin turbos) is good for 414hp so the 5.0L V8 could be 550hp+

It would be great new because because GM would have no choice but to go for supoercharged or turbo V8s to keep up.

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070705/FREE/70703005/1024/LATESTNEWS

BTW I think the Orion looks great.

[tuff304]

Its great Ford are uping the power, but come next year when VEII or whatever comes next, I doubt Holden will leave power figure's as they are...

[mustanger]

Well the LS3 will be 325 kw standard.:)

[lowriding]

the more i see it , the more it looks very much similar to the current ,not significantly different anyway .Enthusiasts will see it but to the avg joe schmo it will kinda seem like a tidied up BF . I dont know it will be enough ?? Noones is tripping over themselves to buy the current one , for what reason does FoMoCo believe they will start buying an Orion in droves?

[iloveholden]

All i can say is :spew::spew::spew::spew::spew:

Some will say that i've just got this opinion because its a ford, but where credit is due i pay it and i can tell you its not due here. The current Ford is much better looking than this.

The arse end is all wobbly looking and the front is shocking with those black outs.

[_MetalliX_]

Wheels have their work experience kid photoshop the new Ford, stick it on the cover and call it an exclusive. What a surprise.

[emg]

good to see you guys spew your guts out.. I reckon it looks HOT. I wonder if you all would still be spewing if it didn't have the blue oval badge on it.

Great sleek new shape, super sexy styling.. very fresh indeed.

[macca_779]

Wheels have their work experience kid photoshop the new Ford, stick it on the cover and call it an exclusive. What a surprise.

actually it does say in the article that the red pic is an official release from FPV

[falcon coupe]

I see they are going back to useing a pushrod engine too. looks like they cant beat on about their "high tech" quad cam V8 any more.LOL!

All up though itll be great to see some more meaty falcons on the street to help us LSX folks stir up the ricers!

Go the Aussie muscle!!!

The competition is good for both sides, as they try to better each other we all end up with better cars.

There is plenty up their sleeve with this new engine.


The initial versions of the Boss will have two-valves-per-cylinder, two spark-plugs per cylinder and likely employ a form of cylinder or valve deactivation for increased fuel economy. Later high-performance versions will be equipped with DOHC, four-valves-per-cylinder and Gasoline direct injection (GDI). There are rumors of a 6.2 L, DOHC, four-valves-per-cylinder, twin-turbo, GDI version of the Boss already under development


Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Boss_engine

[OLS108]

colour coding around the head lights PLEASE.... F6 looks ok .. Wheels are YUK

[JET_VUGMH]

Looks like yet another poor attempt by the blue oval boys to down our aussie icon, but holden wont lay down and will up the ante as always.

[CarlFST60L]

I wonder if you all would still be spewing if it didn't have the blue oval badge on it.

I think 90% of the people on ls1 have two eyes... lots of guys didnt like the VE / HSV look and said so...

imho, the Orion (borion) looks really really bad, the front bar/lights are complete shite, the back is 'ok', side skirts are good... but, i will wait to see one in the flesh before passing final judgment... Its almost as bad as an AU :1peek:

[nikola]

I think it looks great. In person it might look even better.

And, a 6.2 litre V8? I'm definitely looking forward to that.

[BLACK 346]

good to see you guys spew your guts out.. I reckon it looks HOT. I wonder if you all would still be spewing if it didn't have the blue oval badge on it.

Great sleek new shape, super sexy styling.. very fresh indeed.

Don't worry too much, you will always get the odd few Rednecks coming
through the fence from Street Commodores Forum, the majority of
constant members of this forum will give the Ford product a fair review.
I like it, so long as they do something about the black bits on the front,
which I am sure they will prior to release.

[michaels1v8]

Well I have to say it does look extremely promising...
BUT I just dont like the Racoon headlight black out... If it was not all the way from the foglight to the headlights I would love it.... A gap between them with the body colour showing would make it sweet.

Good to see some competition for the VE..

But like has been said if those power figures are correct, by the time the Orion comes out power figures in the holden range will probably have raised to match. I hope Ford ups each model by 10kws just to pre counter the power hike Holden will probably introduce at the same time.

[emg]

Don't worry too much, you will always get the odd few Rednecks coming through the fence from Street Commodores Forum.

me redneck? pfff.. hahaha

I thought they only exist in the ADF.

[BLACK 346]

me redneck? pfff.. hahaha

I thought they only exist in the ADF.

No, not you, the usual crew bagging out everything with
a Blue Oval on it, re read my post :)

[emg]

my bad :)


.

[SS_Fury]

i think it looks really good - some of you holden guys should open your second eye....sure the racoon eyes might not appeal to everyone, but it does look very impressive, especially with those power figure. The problem is holden will have other models out by then which would match this. And as someone cleverly mentioned, its about putting the power to the ground. But i tip my hat to ford, I am a fan of the typhoon in the current series, and a black one here would be hawt!

[Road Warrior]

Personally I think the racoon eyes looks ****ed up but apart from that it looks hot.

I might start saving my coin now to buy one of the last Aussie straight sixes when they start winding up the I6 F6 production :)

[BossV8]

Have to have a chuckle at some comments, I mean fundamentally the VE and these CGI's are of similar outline but with different grille's and headlights, and they say it's a shocker? They both are separated through these points and I think the VE and this design looks good but I'll put bets down that you pass on pics of a VE HSV and an Orion CGI pic to the uneducated around the office and they'll say they roughly look the same!

[NODDY347]

So far the car looks promising, looking forward to seeing the car in person.

[Josho]

It just screams copy and paste from the VE Design. Cant they come up with anything new? And how much crap did they give holden for using "old" technology with the pushrod and only getting more power by throwing a bigger engine in it. Kinda stabbing themselves in the back if you ask me. It doesnt look to bad but its a copy of the VE so i cant give it any credit.

[pushrod4life]

"compact and lighter pushrod V8s"

I knew they'd come crawling back. :eyes:

[BossV8]

"compact and lighter pushrod V8s"

I knew they'd come crawling back. :eyes:

As much as us Ford guys got stuck into you guys for still having a pushrod motor it's that feature that made it better than the boss out of the box. We have guys running 10's in Boss motor's now and they respond very well to tunes and breathing mods but it makes sense for Ford to go to a lighter motor in future years.

One thing I noticed when I first had my XR8 was the low doughy spot in the 260's, it took some getting used to, something DOHC's all have, my Rodeo had the same as well. Actually it will be interesting to feel what the new Ford V6 is like, the good thing about I6 is that it didnt have that sort of doughiness down low.

[AFAR]

With these sort of power figures its only a matter of what...5-7 years? when we'll start seeing 400KW sedans in stock trim?

I LIKE IT!



Regardless of that.
Holden/Ford need to start putting this sort of potential in smaller/ligher/better handling SPORTS cars (2 doors). Then we'll be talking.

[payaya]

"compact and lighter pushrod V8s"

I knew they'd come crawling back. :eyes:

The DOHC is the better motor. I guess GM have the right idea, massive CC's as cheap as possible is key. Dont worry if the motor is sub par, its the power which is important.

:vpo:

[XCLUB]

Ford really need these to sell. I hope they do for the sake of the local car scene. Can't seem to like the VE no matter how hard I try and i need to see these in the flesh before I make a decision.

Seems as though both camps are upping the power stakes in order to lure customers to their product and are hoping no one notices the styling too much. With the new wave of body shapes coming out of europe and the states, both Holden and Ford OZ need to get radical in their designs for their respective marks.

[payaya]

It just screams copy and paste from the VE Design. Cant they come up with anything new? And how much crap did they give holden for using "old" technology with the pushrod and only getting more power by throwing a bigger engine in it. Kinda stabbing themselves in the back if you ask me. It doesnt look to bad but its a copy of the VE so i cant give it any credit.

Um if anything the design from small C pillar and what looks like framless doors, its much different to anything we have seen.

Also Holden get the best engines GM have to offer, Ford get nothing. The 5.4L Supercharges is used widely in america why no here???


Ford really need these to sell. I hope they do for the sake of the local car scene. Can't seem to like the VE no matter how hard I try and i need to see these in the flesh before I make a decision.

Seems as though both camps are upping the power stakes in order to lure customers to their product and are hoping no one notices the styling too much. With the new wave of body shapes coming out of europe and the states, both Holden and Ford OZ need to get radical in their designs for their respective marks.

Aussie market is tiny. Car output is tiny. The way GM and Ford are going now, I would not be suprised if there would not be an aussie built car further down the track.

The way the aussie exchange rate is going no american is going to buy them :)

[pushrod4life]

The DOHC is the better motor.


Must be why they're considering ditching it. =p



I guess GM have the right idea, massive CC's as cheap as possible is key. Dont worry if the motor is sub par, its the power which is important.

:vpo:

Sure do. I guess they could throw away money developing a DOHC or quad cam engine (complete with necessary "DOHC" or "Quad Cam!" badges so no one forgets it's a DOHC/quad cam engine) even though the LS7 is 32KG lighter than BMW's 5 litre V10, and weighs the same and is only 6mm taller than the LS2, and is a lot more compact than many equivalent DOHC engines, and that the current pushrod engines more than get the job done, they need to upgrade their "sub par" motor....just...because...it's old...or something..=p

[michaels1v8]

The way the aussie exchange rate is going no american is going to buy them :)

Why not?
We buy them and they would still be getting them for a lower price than us with the slightly favourable exchange rate.

Is it the added competition from similar competitor's cars???? and who would they be competing against?

The VE supposedly competes with world class leading cars (No idea as have been in neither. Just stating what is a common opinion of different reviews)... So how do these similar priced competitors compare with the VE?

[payaya]

Must be why they're considering ditching it. =p



Sure do. I guess they could throw away money developing a DOHC or quad cam engine (complete with necessary "DOHC" or "Quad Cam!" badges so no one forgets it's a DOHC/quad cam engine) even though the LS7 is 32KG lighter than BMW's 5 litre V10, and weighs the same and is only 6mm taller than the LS2, and is a lot more compact than many equivalent DOHC engines, and that the current pushrod engines more than get the job done, they need to upgrade their "sub par" motor....just...because...it's old...or something..=p

Throw away money??? No way! With 7 litres, who cares.


Why not?
We buy them and they would still be getting them for a lower price than us with the slightly favourable exchange rate.

Is it the added competition from similar competitor's cars???? and who would they be competing against?

The VE supposedly competes with world class leading cars (No idea as have been in neither. Just stating what is a common opinion of different reviews)... So how do these similar priced competitors compare with the VE?

The exchange rate will affect our exports period. Think about what motor vehicles you are able to get in the USA so almost nothing, its a joke sometimes! Our aussie dollar is so strong against the green back its obviously going to increase prices of the cars.

No its not the added competition from its class, but a tendancy for people these days to buy smaller cars.

[Road Warrior]

"compact and lighter pushrod V8s"

I knew they'd come crawling back. :eyes:

Well see this is wierd because the seppos are saying the Hurricane/Boss are one of the same and are OHC :errr:

[Danv8]

The DOHC is the better motor.

Sure it is sunshine.

:rolleyes:

[vxl10n]

I ripped this article out of a wheels mag whilst at the doctors one day. It is about how holden and ford measure kilowatts differently.


HOT DINr

"Not all kilowatts are the same, and we're not talking about the smaller horses. The output of any internal combustion engine if affected by barometric pressure, ambient air temp and air humidity. Several Standards organisations have determined power correction formulas to take the variables out of measuring power.

The problem is, they're all different. The DIN standard is corrected to reference conditions of 101.3kPa of dry air and 20 degrees Celcius, while ECE uses 99kPa on 25 degrees.

What does all this nerd talk have to do with anything? Ford using DIN to get 290kw for the GT where HSV uses ECE to get 285kw for the R8. The clubbie actually makes 292kw DIN. NOt that we're splitting hairs."

I love this article because it pisses of my Ford mates.

I wonder what the HSV GTS makes in DIN????? :)

[YMK]

Well see this is wierd because the seppos are saying the Hurricane/Boss are one of the same and are OHC :errr:

You're right. Its common knowledge, the "Hurricane" is ohc! How on earth did Wheels get it wrong? Its definitely ohc.

Plus, with the new Twin Force engines, Ford US are making a dohc 5.0 Twin Turbo V8. This motor would be destined for large rwd sedans whereas the Hurricane (actually the name was changed to Boss - Wheels did get something right) will be more the f series trucks.

[_MetalliX_]

actually it does say in the article that the red pic is an official release from FPV
The photos are real, although they were not officially released (leaked, maybe) by Ford.

The image on the front cover it an all-out photo shop job, which they like to call an 'exclusive'.

[SSUte01]

IIRC Holden/HSV changed to kW DIN with the introduction of the VE. I may be wrong but I remember reading somewhere that the LS2 in the VE is only 2kW more powerfl than the LS2 in the VZ as the VE LS2 is 307kW DIN and VZ LS2 is 305kW DIN.

So to answer your question the GTS in current guise makes 307kW DIN.

[XmFoRdFaLcOn]

I think its a very fresh looking car. The Raccoon eyes..I am not 100% sold on them yet but they are growing on me. I honestly believe they should be optional though.

I absolutely HATED the whole VE concept when I first saw it but it has grown on me. Sure it looks like its been run into a brick wall with its short stumpy overhand and high nose but everyone is growing to like it. So if the only criticism of the Orion is the blackened out section under the headlights, then it wont take long to get used to

[Redhot_57]

Their quad cam BOSS V8 was actually a pretty impressive unit.
Essentially a pickup truck motor with Cobra heads, it pumped out more torque than much larger capacity Chev motors.


You were spot on about it being a truck motor. Smooth for sure, and sounds lovely, but fairly limited in terms of performance applications, without big mods anyway. Despite the healthy torque figure, anyone who has driven one will agree they are pretty flat under about 3000rpm, and its all over by 5500.

Anyway, enough about that.

As for the Orion, I will reserve my judgement till I see one in the flesh. All due kudos to Ford IF they follow thru with their claims. Bugger me though, a cynical man might suggest more than a passing similarity to VE.....

If you cant beat em, join em?..

[payaya]

No one is pointing out the 600 CC's difference in capacity between the two donks. So 290KW and 520NM out of the FPV would mean 320KW and 570NM :)

Of course its going to feel flat against a 6.0L! The 3.6L V6 feels flat against the 4.0L.

Dont worry about the V8 as the I6 turbo is the motor to have in the Ford camp. If 300KW is in order then that torque level will be might close to 600NM!

[michaels1v8]

The exchange rate will affect our exports period. Think about what motor vehicles you are able to get in the USA so almost nothing, its a joke sometimes! Our aussie dollar is so strong against the green back its obviously going to increase prices of the cars.

No its not the added competition from its class, but a tendancy for people these days to buy smaller cars.

Ahh ok. I realise no one is going to buy them because of the downsizing trend of the market but you said it was because of the exchange rate.

I understand the relationship between the exchange rate and export demands but I was wondering what similar priced car offers the same standard features and value for money as the VE SSV/ Pontiac G8?

I couldnt think of any off the top of my head that really compare for a similar price but I am no expert on what is available in the American market at the price range the VE SSV will sell for.

Like you said though it wont sell in massive numbers because it is not the type of car the majority of a the market is after (small and economical)


We're getting a bit off topic here so I will leave it at that. :)

[Josho]

Um if anything the design from small C pillar and what looks like framless doors, its much different to anything we have seen.

Also Holden get the best engines GM have to offer, Ford get nothing. The 5.4L Supercharges is used widely in america why no here???

Pumped guards and the rear end is Very much the same!!

Ford get nothing cause ford chooses to get nothing. Whats stopping them?

[EfiJy]

Ahh ok. I realise no one is going to buy them because of the downsizing trend of the market but you said it was because of the exchange rate.

I understand the relationship between the exchange rate and export demands but I was wondering what similar priced car offers the same standard features and value for money as the VE SSV/ Pontiac G8?

I couldnt think of any off the top of my head that really compare for a similar price but I am no expert on what is available in the American market at the price range the VE SSV will sell for.

Like you said though it wont sell in massive numbers because it is not the type of car the majority of a the market is after (small and economical)


We're getting a bit off topic here so I will leave it at that. :)

mate save yr breathe. that dudes got a peanut for a brain.

[throttlehappy]

i like em, as i like the ba/bf shape and this is similar. dont think the black at the front should be as big though. should be good

[payaya]

Pumped guards and the rear end is Very much the same!!

Ford get nothing cause ford chooses to get nothing. Whats stopping them?

So the Orion has a rear end very similar to the BF. Now Orion followed the VE styling. So does that made the VE a Bf copy?????????

[Josho]

End of the day its still a ford lol

[falcon coupe]

So the Orion has a rear end very similar to the BF. Now Orion followed the VE styling. So does that made the VE a Bf copy?????????

The orion would have been on the drawing boards soon after the BA release in 2002, i fail to see how they would copy something that came out years later.

[Alex(AUS)]

No one is pointing out the 600 CC's difference in capacity between the two donks. So 290KW and 520NM out of the FPV would mean 320KW and 570NM :)

With this logic a Toyota Aurion engine with a capacity increase to 5.4 would make 347Kw and 525Nm (DIN) ... so this 5.4L performance engine is much worse than an Aurion right? Wrong, an increase in capacity doesnt result in a linear and proportional increase in power and torque. Otherwise, GM wasted their time with the LS7 (one of the worlds best engines) ... they should have just put two Aurion engines together to get 400kw and 672Nm.

Alex

[genIIIss2002]

Yesterday, I saw the 2008 F6rims on an EA ford:confused:

[OLDYELLA65]

Cant believe nobody has posted this yet.
.
Mate as the Mods said it was posted nearly 2 weeks ago come Wednesday then pulled just as quick(with only around 550 views) on this Forum ..I only posted the Cover headline and in the process LOST my Job due to pressure from WHEELS PUBLISHERS and apparently FORD threatening to keep the publishers on the outer,also threataned Legal action!!!

[BossV8]

Mate as the Mods said it was posted nearly 2 weeks ago come Wednesday then pulled just as quick(with only around 550 views) on this Forum ..I only posted the Cover headline and in the process LOST my Job due to pressure from WHEELS PUBLISHERS and apparently FORD threatening to keep the publishers on the outer,also threataned Legal action!!!

Did you post the orange coloured pics as well, or just the actual headline?

Where did you work in order to lose your job for posting a wheels mag image? So Wheels were cut that their upcoming cover story had been released and in turn Ford were cut that Wheels let someone let the secret out early? I'm guessing you "may" of seen the cover of the mag during printing or design?

[OLDYELLA65]

Too Date i haven't posted one picture relating to this !!!!I only posted the Headline of the cover.......The orange pic's seen on the wheels site appeared after all the whoha about info being found on the tip and the media publishing all the images we have now....seems to be the same picture photoshopped Orange instead of the Red one that appears on the YET TO BE ON SALE AUGUST WHEELS!!!
Yep saw the Cover at printing ...I saw nothing new that none of us had already said or new was going to be but apparently it went straight to the top at Ford and then to the Publishers Management who then demanded a head ..which as it turn out was MINE !!!

[heavychevy]

post retracted, due to the late hour and yella's biz is not mine to discuss

[OLDYELLA65]

hEAVY PM YOUR WAY>>>


Yesterday, I saw the 2008 F6rims on an EA ford:confused:

They are the cureent BF seriesII RIMS
Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia
Here's a side by side comparison. They look like they just flipped the image, but that may just be the sketch

http://i186.photobucket.com/albums/x138/ea_silver_ghia/untitled-1.jpg


post retracted, due to the late hour and yella's biz is not mine to discuss


"MOTOR sources indicate the induction system of the force-fed six has been modified to eliminate the cross-engine plumbing from the airbox to the intercooler and, along with engine-mapping improvements, will push power to 260kW. That is likely to mean that GT's 290kW 5.4 litre V8 will slot into the Orion version of the XR8, pushing FPV to find a significant hike in horsepower, 300kW in the F6 models and 310kW in the GT versions are likely targets."

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/2959/img1ht0.jpg

HEAVY ...Just one of the MANY examples of the discussions on the Ford outputs and this MOTOR Article printed 8 to 9 weeks before the wheels touted figures ..as i said no big secrets here on LS1 or on the AFF!!!

[HazzaHSV]

With the Australian car industry the way it is, and lots of people slated to lose jobs already, it will be a good thing if Ford get this new Falcon right.

When I saw the rear shots and pumped guards (very VE'ish and why not its a world class look) and read the specs of the new engines, I thought finally they have got it right. Then I saw the lower front hmmm. But they may be putting these photo's out to the public to gauge whether it is way to much overdone. To me it looks like a hotch potch of bits. But that can be easily changed if they want to.

The VE and HSV E are a top notch product and some of that is because of competition. The more competition the better the product will need to be. The only way the Australian car industry will keep closing the gap to the Euro's is with a competitive/flourishing local market.

[XmFoRdFaLcOn]

With the Australian car industry the way it is, and lots of people slated to lose jobs already, it will be a good thing if Ford get this new Falcon right.

When I saw the rear shots and pumped guards (very VE'ish and why not its a world class look) and read the specs of the new engines, I thought finally they have got it right. Then I saw the lower front hmmm. But they may be putting these photo's out to the public to gauge whether it is way to much overdone. To me it looks like a hotch potch of bits. But that can be easily changed if they want to.

The VE and HSV E are a top notch product and some of that is because of competition. The more competition the better the product will need to be. The only way the Australian car industry will keep closing the gap to the Euro's is with a competitive/flourishing local market.
Yeah you are right, we need to keep the big aussie cars alive. I dont agree with the Orion looking like a VE though, besides some very minor similarities in the door lines and handles etc it looks nothing like a VE. The slightly flared guards will actually look ok with base model rims and hubcaps unlike the Omegay

[monaroCountry1]

With these sort of power figures its only a matter of what...5-7 years? when we'll start seeing 400KW sedans in stock trim?

I LIKE IT!



Regardless of that.
Holden/Ford need to start putting this sort of potential in smaller/ligher/better handling SPORTS cars (2 doors). Then we'll be talking.


Great job ford, nice design and good move on the push rod........I say its an advancement in technology :).

AFAR you act like 400kw in a sedan is a bad thing :).

[Road Warrior]

Great job ford, nice design and good move on the push rod........I say its an advancement in technology :).


The Hurricane/Boss aint pushrod...its OHC, Wheels stuffed up.

[AFAR]

AFAR you act like 400kw in a sedan is a bad thing :).

Oh no. It's a good thing.

Would just be better in a lighter car :rofl:

[mickeyVX350]

Why does the front look like a Panda?

I hear the base model will be called "Dalmation"!

Enough of the quips, good on them, looks the goods, maybe too much tarting on the sports models, and the black eyes have to go, but I guess it is carry over from being punched in the face repeatedly by a Holden! :P

[JimmyXR6T04]

Why does the front look like a Panda?

I hear the base model will be called "Dalmation"!

Enough of the quips, good on them, looks the goods, maybe too much tarting on the sports models, and the black eyes have to go, but I guess it is carry over from being punched in the face repeatedly by a Holden! :P

they should have a black/blue ass end too then, from all the ass raping holden has given ford lately :bawl:

on a serious note, i don't mind the look, it really has grown on me. But i agree, i'd probably have the black inserts painted to match.

[Funky_Munky]

One vote for the 'racoon look' here. I think it doesnt look to bad at all. Its reminiscent of the black inserts around the foglights of the VZ and VE clubbies, only they took it one step further.

The main issue with it I think, is that it is an unconvential car design, especially for a Ford. I think it will look pretty good once seen in person and has potential to grown on people.

Just think of the E Series HSV tail lights. At first people were not very happy with the design, but in time it really grew on the members here, especially when it was seen in the 'flesh'.

[Ghosn]

One vote for the 'racoon look' here. I think it doesnt look to bad at all. Its reminiscent of the black inserts around the foglights of the VZ and VE clubbies, only they took it one step further.

The main issue with it I think, is that it is an unconvential car design, especially for a Ford. I think it will look pretty good once seen in person and has potential to grown on people.

Just think of the E Series HSV tail lights. At first people were not very happy with the design, but in time it really grew on the members here, especially when it was seen in the 'flesh'.

Agree with u 100%, my thoughts exactly. When the spy pics of HSV were released, I was a little sceptical about them but once u see them in the flesh amongst other traffic, they really stand out and look tough. I try to keep up with them and drool a little longer :)


I think it's the same case with the new FPV's, once the initial shock of the new design settles, I think the cars will be accepted by the majority of both camps. I think the pics look tough, can't wait to see one in the flesh.

[OPPYLOCK]

If both models (VE and Orion) were for sale against each other right now, and assuming the pics and stats of the Fords are close to the mark, I would probably take an F6 Orion over over an R8 Clubby but it would be close.
I'm not a fan of the F6's new wheel design and the all important kerb weight is still a mystery but it would be hard to go past.
An LS7 HSV would put any thoughts of Ford ownership to bed!!!

[OLDYELLA65]

COINCIDENCE......

I was bouncing around the Aussie Ford Forum last night and came across the guy who says he was the ARTIST that did these Orion pics using 3DMAX..

It just so happens that this guy joined the forum 1 WEEK PRIOR to thier Publication.... LEAK?????

Sounds to like he couldn't wait to talk about the pics.....

[HazzaHSV]

Maybe but a Ford GT owner from our dyno day said it looked like a VE, but that he loved the look of the spyshots. Regarding the flared guards IMO I would rather compromise the look of the fleet/base model but gain the agressiveness for the sporty models, than compromise the sporty models to make the fleet/base model a bit better.


I dont agree with the Orion looking like a VE though, besides some very minor similarities in the door lines and handles etc it looks nothing like a VE. The slightly flared guards will actually look ok with base model rims and hubcaps unlike the Omegay

[XmFoRdFaLcOn]

Maybe but a Ford GT owner from our dyno day said it looked like a VE, but that he loved the look of the spyshots. Regarding the flared guards IMO I would rather compromise the look of the fleet/base model but gain the agressiveness for the sporty models, than compromise the sporty models to make the fleet/base model a bit better.

But the sporty models would have looked just as good, if not better with a compromised flare. Have a look at the ve from DEAD front on, looks like drongo pommie with big ears

As sad as it is, a company like ford or holden will ALWAYS sell more base models than higher spec models. I would rather 10% of my product look ok with 90% looking classy than 10% looking awesome and 90% looking like absolute crap

[troytroy]

WHO CARES ABOUT THE BLOODY POWER OUTPUTS !!!!! of these new ORION FPV models..... Sure the marketing people at FORD and FPV will be happy that we've been suckered into our fixation with POWER Figures....while they fail to release the all important weight figures.

Ever since the BA was released we've been mesmerised by KW figures....and after a while we found that 260Kw of XR8 actually meant Sweet FA as the bloody thing weighed nearly two tonnes once you added fuel and a driver, the thing sounded good, went well but you wouldn't call it quick (not in 2007 anyway) Even the Ford GT's 'massive' 290Kw and good Torque struggled to get the thing moving any quicker than a 2.0 Litre 168kw WRX.

Weight is everything....., if you're cynical, extra power means more fuel consumption to achieve the same result as the previous outgoing lighter model...increased stopping distances.....more body roll in corners, slower cornering......bla bla bla......meanwhile the piss powered Honda has taken you in the corner because your 2 tonne 5,000Kw V8 cant corner any quicker than a Fire engine......

The BA/BF model was a heavy sedan....the next model will be heavier still (manufacturers want good crash test results, stiff-strong body structure in every new model they release - look at the VE).. I wouldn't be suprised that the V8 GT model they release will be the first one that breaks the 2 tonne mark. and wont be any quicker than a 2002 VX GTS.......bets on.

[Big_Valven]

Look, I'll get flamed for this but isn't it time holden / chev / gm powertrain started working on a little more sophisticated engines? I mean you can't beat cubes but if they worked on it a little harder they could be making a lot more power... the euros get 400hp out of a 4l or so V8... if the yanks are cranking 7l upwards engines out of detroit, the power they COULD get from them straight out of the factory would be astronomical wouldnt it?

Flame away... it had to be said...

[Souljah]

Look, I'll get flamed for this but isn't it time holden / chev / gm powertrain started working on a little more sophisticated engines? I mean you can't beat cubes but if they worked on it a little harder they could be making a lot more power... the euros get 400hp out of a 4l or so V8... if the yanks are cranking 7l upwards engines out of detroit, the power they COULD get from them straight out of the factory would be astronomical wouldnt it?

Flame away... it had to be said...

But if they put a 7L, 700hp firebreather in your GTS or GT. They would have to develop an entirely new engine for the next model as that engine would be right near the end of its tunability. It wouldnt be very cost efficient either as they wouldnt get 3-4 models from one engine.

[OLDYELLA65]

But if they put a 7L, 700hp firebreather in your GTS or GT. They would have to develop an entirely new engine for the next model as that engine would be right near the end of its tunability. It wouldnt be very cost efficient either as they wouldnt get 3-4 models from one engine.

505hp out off the box plenty of juice there....Cam and Edit 645hp to me plenty of tunability left there...

Power adders have to be the consideration for manufacturers ..
just look at the twinturbo V6 Ford are trialing at the moment!!

It wont be long until that type of thing appears on the V8.. I'll put my money on the Roots SC for the Ford V8....

No idea were GM's going ..but Ilike the CUBES!!!

[BadMac]

Look, I'll get flamed for this but isn't it time holden / chev / gm powertrain started working on a little more sophisticated engines? I mean you can't beat cubes but if they worked on it a little harder they could be making a lot more power... the euros get 400hp out of a 4l or so V8... if the yanks are cranking 7l upwards engines out of detroit, the power they COULD get from them straight out of the factory would be astronomical wouldnt it?

Flame away... it had to be said...

Yeah but who wants a car that you have to rev to 19,000RPM to get 600HP and 200Torques. Its all about Torque. Thats what moves the lump of lard from a standstill, thats what pulls the family, plus boat etc. Nothing like a big lazy v8 to pull out stumps.

[EfiJy]

Look, I'll get flamed for this but isn't it time holden / chev / gm powertrain started working on a little more sophisticated engines? I mean you can't beat cubes but if they worked on it a little harder they could be making a lot more power... the euros get 400hp out of a 4l or so V8... if the yanks are cranking 7l upwards engines out of detroit, the power they COULD get from them straight out of the factory would be astronomical wouldnt it?

Flame away... it had to be said...

only wankers and ricers talk kw per liter. its irrelevent really.

sophistiction isnt that about power/fuel used?


505hp out off the box plenty of juice there....Cam and Edit 645hp to me plenty of tunability left there...

Power adders have to be the consideration for manufacturers ..
just look at the twinturbo V6 Ford are trialing at the moment!!

It wont be long until that type of thing appears on the V8.. I'll put my money on the Roots SC for the Ford V8....

No idea were GM's going ..but Ilike the CUBES!!!

yep gm sc ls3 = ls9

[OLDYELLA65]

TORQUE...TORQUE GOD GIVE ALL MORE TORQUE!!!!!:bow::bow::bow::bow:

[XmFoRdFaLcOn]

WHO CARES ABOUT THE BLOODY POWER OUTPUTS !!!!! of these new ORION FPV models..... Sure the marketing people at FORD and FPV will be happy that we've been suckered into our fixation with POWER Figures....while they fail to release the all important weight figures.

Ever since the BA was released we've been mesmerised by KW figures....and after a while we found that 260Kw of XR8 actually meant Sweet FA as the bloody thing weighed nearly two tonnes once you added fuel and a driver, the thing sounded good, went well but you wouldn't call it quick (not in 2007 anyway) Even the Ford GT's 'massive' 290Kw and good Torque struggled to get the thing moving any quicker than a 2.0 Litre 168kw WRX.

Weight is everything....., if you're cynical, extra power means more fuel consumption to achieve the same result as the previous outgoing lighter model...increased stopping distances.....more body roll in corners, slower cornering......bla bla bla......meanwhile the piss powered Honda has taken you in the corner because your 2 tonne 5,000Kw V8 cant corner any quicker than a Fire engine......

The BA/BF model was a heavy sedan....the next model will be heavier still (manufacturers want good crash test results, stiff-strong body structure in every new model they release - look at the VE).. I wouldn't be suprised that the V8 GT model they release will be the first one that breaks the 2 tonne mark. and wont be any quicker than a 2002 VX GTS.......bets on.

The funniest part about this post ( I agree with you by the way ) is that the BA models were the first cars to show that power output ISNT everything. Up until that point Holden/HSV ALWAYS received more praise because they had a higher KW output. The Fords have in most cases, always had more torque which is most important. But you are saying that the BA platform was what made people KW hungry? Been happening way before that. All HSV used to do is stick on an ugly body kit and advertise the KW rating on the back of the thing

[OPPYLOCK]

Look, I'll get flamed for this but isn't it time holden / chev / gm powertrain started working on a little more sophisticated engines? I mean you can't beat cubes but if they worked on it a little harder they could be making a lot more power... the euros get 400hp out of a 4l or so V8... if the yanks are cranking 7l upwards engines out of detroit, the power they COULD get from them straight out of the factory would be astronomical wouldnt it?

Flame away... it had to be said...

Have to agree with the others here. Specific output is interesting but in real terms if it is compact, light, efficient and produces good power and torque do you really care if is 2L or 7L????
The LS7 is a good case in point. Compare it against the engines powering most supercars these days.

[emg]

All HSV used to do is stick on an ugly body kit and advertise the KW rating on the back of the thing

Still looks tacky today. Could possibly stand for "307 kilos heavier than the average car"

[HazzaHSV]

Cant agree with that. The sporty models look spot on in my opinion as do the V8 supercars. From dead on is my favourite view, reminds me a bit of the old M3 with the pumped guards. Very beastie.

Also disagree about the base models. Most fleet and V6 buyers wouldnt give a rats if the wheel arches make the car a bit gay.. But SS and HSV buyers would put more emphasis on looks and that's where the sweet spot of the VE look is.


But the sporty models would have looked just as good, if not better with a compromised flare. Have a look at the ve from DEAD front on, looks like drongo pommie with big ears

As sad as it is, a company like ford or holden will ALWAYS sell more base models than higher spec models. I would rather 10% of my product look ok with 90% looking classy than 10% looking awesome and 90% looking like absolute crap

All HSV used to do is stick on an ugly body kit and advertise the KW rating on the back of the thing
Ah but at least they get it right. Tickford failed miserably and FPV haven't been able to get even that right till recently.

[emg]

pretty much anything looks plain in base model trim. Except maybe a beemer.:bow:

[michaels1v8]

As sad as it is, a company like ford or holden will ALWAYS sell more base models than higher spec models.


I would of thought a company like Ford or Holden (ie: small in terms of world markets) would ALWAYS sell more of their higher spec models as those are the ones that are usually exported to MUCH larger overseas market. To compromise the looks of their premium models would not be good for export possibilities IMO

[Caprice270]

I like the look of the Orion GT. The VE HSVs didnt look good to me in the initial pictures, and neither did they impress me "in the flesh". The bodykit is just strange IMO. Whereas Orion's bodykit flows beautifully.

[GTS_300_Coupe]

I believe this new Orion model next year will do pretty well.

Always loved the XR Fords over the Commodores.
Drove a new BFII XR6 with 6spd auto the other day it was very nice. I'd probably prefer one over an SV6.

Hopefully Ford get the power right though, they have fallen off the wagon with their V8s.
The quad cam boss has lots of potential that was thrown to waste with the BA/BF series.

[KingClifton]

WHO CARES ABOUT THE BLOODY POWER OUTPUTS !!!!! of these new ORION FPV models..... Sure the marketing people at FORD and FPV will be happy that we've been suckered into our fixation with POWER Figures....while they fail to release the all important weight figures..

I guess it's a pissing contest: not restricted to Australia. The Germans are in the same race with the 500bhp club (first the M5, then the E63, now the S8 etc).

I got more real-world "wow thats fast" feeling from the "feeble" 132kW 1.8 low-pressure turbo in my TT then I do out of my R8. 132kW, cast-iron block and head...an engine that traces its roots back 20 years. It felt fast, even though it wasn't (0-100 8.4secs). And then there's the 2.0TDI A3 I drove which had more shove off idle than an F6 or GT :)


With the Australian car industry the way it is, and lots of people slated to lose jobs already, it will be a good thing if Ford get this new Falcon right.

When I saw the rear shots and pumped guards (very VE'ish and why not its a world class look) and read the specs of the new engines, I thought finally they have got it right. Then I saw the lower front hmmm. But they may be putting these photo's out to the public to gauge whether it is way to much overdone. To me it looks like a hotch potch of bits. But that can be easily changed if they want to.

The VE and HSV E are a top notch product and some of that is because of competition. The more competition the better the product will need to be. The only way the Australian car industry will keep closing the gap to the Euro's is with a competitive/flourishing local market.

With the VE (and hopefully with Orion) hopefully enough badge-snobs will be tempted out of their poverty-spec BMWs and Audis and back into a locally-built car to help the industry survive. Prior to the VE I would never have bought a locally-made car, but the VE is such a great leap towards a truly world-competitive car. The BF Falcon is also good, but has been eclipsed by the VE. The VE has obviously had European design and engineering influences: the BF is still very much an Australian car, if a reasonably well-polished one. Coming from four Audis I can tell you the VE is like a European car, but the BF is not there yet.

[HOT VE SS]

New Falcon looks sweeet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:):):):)

[Big_Valven]

only wankers and ricers talk kw per liter. its irrelevent really.
sophistiction isnt that about power/fuel used?


Not being a wanker or a ricer I wouldn't be able to tell you for sure :) But you have hit a good point here... power vs fuel used is probably the best indicator of performance really. You've gotta have a think about the "oh it's a bigger engine, it'll use way more fuel" stigma amongst the less knowledgeable of consumers too though.


Have to agree with the others here. Specific output is interesting but in real terms if it is compact, light, efficient and produces good power and torque do you really care if is 2L or 7L????
The LS7 is a good case in point. Compare it against the engines powering most supercars these days.

All too true. The torque really is the important thing because it's what you feel. Torque by definition in relation to torque at the flywheel in cars, is the measure of the engine's ability to exert force on the drivetrain in order to propel the car. Power however is the engine's ability to exert force on the drivetrain in order to propel the car over a certain amount of time. That's why maximum power always occurs at highest revs. But we don't spend our time bouncing the engine off the rev limiter so it's almost irrelevant except for reference. Torque happens in the engine's "usable" range of revs and the wider and stronger the torque band the harder the car pulls as it accelerates. That's why cars with higher KW ratings may not feel as fast as ones with perhaps a lower KW rating (because it doesn't rev as fast) but a much higher torque rating.