Exhaust Bypass Valve - HSV, its time!

[Caprice270]

Well, the time is ripe for HSV to catch up with the rest of the world and introduce an exhaust bypass valve on its full range of cars, including the entry level models.

THis has been suggested on this forum in the past but it seems this forum's respected members have not been ready to push this issue to the levels necessary to make HSV pay attention.

Aston Martin showed the way when it introduced the system on its V8 model, and it soon came to mainstream models, starting with the Audi RS4 and now the BMW M3 and the 2008 Corvette.

So what is HSV waiting for? Why is it refusing to give customers an exhaust bypass valve that will unleash the V8 rumble at wide open throttle? And if HSV finally realises it cannot push this issues aside any longer, it must not restrict this feature to the flagship models only...the Clubby needs to get it as well.

I mean, HSV buyers sacrifice a lot when they buy a 1,800kg+, 5 metre long car that is touted as a track weapon. Its time something irresistably exciting was offered, something to make us pass our time until the C7 Corvette arives in Australia.

HSV is playing the waiting game, happy to retain its edge over FPV but not caring about developments in the rest of the world. Its time some guts were shown again in a similar way that guts was required to deliver the legendary C4B GTSs. Its time to lead the competition and give customers what they don't yet expect, time to exceed expectations

[Sonic_Brew]

and a start button.

[Danv8]

I guess they would implement the idea if it was asked by popular demand.
I personally just see it as an unnecessary expense for such a feature. Although never know it could be on the cards when they update the E series. I'd probably just go out and get a decent aftermarket exhaust system and be done with it. :)

I'd rather see a factory option supercharger really.

[zorro]

the old boy has an aston and I give him stick all the time the thing sounds soft at idle and city driving, but, sounds f*&*'n horn under full noise. also had one fitted when he had a 930R porsche with track exhaust.

I dont see the aussie market having a need for these valves on their cars, not for factory release vehicle anyway. if they did this HSV would leave the factory with big bor exhaust which the extra cost would be passed onto the buying public.

[Caprice270]

I personally just see it as an unnecessary expense for such a feature. I'd probably just go out and get a decent aftermarket exhaust system and be done with it. :)


When I wrote this thread, I did so with some hesitation because there are some powerful vested interests on this forum that would hate to see HSV offer an exhaust with a bypass valve.

Afterall, this forum, unlike many others, is primarily a medium for the sponsors to market their products to enthousiasts, and loud exhausts make up a huge amount of the profits consequently derived. If HSV were to introduce an exhaust bypass, many sponsors would find their profits dwindling, and their customer base would become far more narrow, restricted to those that are after hardcore performance.

An exhaust bypass is not expensive to engineer, in fact I doubt it would increase the price of a HSV by a single dollar. Thats why its a mystery why every time this issue is brought up on this forum, the relevant thread disappears into oblivion. Its as though people want this feature to be swept under the carpet, not to be talked about for as long as possible so that the after-market exhausts can continue to sell like hot cakes forever and ever.

[XLR8 V8]

When I wrote this thread, I did so with some hesitation because there are some powerful vested interests on this forum that would hate to see HSV offer an exhaust with a bypass valve.

Afterall, the forum, unlike many others, is primarily a medium for the sponsors to market their products to enthousiasts, and loud exhausts make up a huge amount of the profits consequently derived. If HSV were to introduce an exhaust bypass, many sponsors would find their profits dwindling, and their customer base would become far more narrow, restricted to those that are after hardcore performance.

An exhaust bypass is not expensive to engineer, in fact I doubt it would increase the price of a HSV by a single dollar. Thats why its a mystery why every time this issue is brought up on this forum, the relevant thread disappears into oblivion. Its as though people want this feature to be swept under the carpet, not to be talked about for as long as possible so that the after-market exhausts can continue to sell like hot cakes forever and ever.


I've never EVER seen a thread about this topic deleted? Please provide proof of this if you're going to make an accusation that the forum moderators/admin have done so purely in the interests of sponsors.
About 3 seconds of searching I found this thread: http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=67587&highlight=cutouts . Strangely it covers this exact topic but hasn't been deleted? Or this one? (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=48313&highlight=cutouts) .... or this one? (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=50332&highlight=cutouts)
You couldn't be more wrong about the forum existing purely for sponsors to market their products. This forum existed long before any sponsorship, but the sponsors have helped to keep it going as traffic and operating costs increased. With today's costs, without the sponsors, there would be no forum at all. However, there is plenty of information and discussion on the forums not related to sponsors in any way.



On topic, the reason why HSV and other local manufacturers will never offer this option is because they have to meet Australian EPA noise restrictions before they can release the vehicle to market. There is some leniancy with imported vehicles if they are running the stock manufaturers exhaust and go over the limit, but local cars are stringently tested. Aussies car makers are not going to risk having an entire car release held up over a noisy exhaust. Even the stock exhaust on a current Clubby is borderline if not just over the legal noise limit. Sureflo have previously tested and posted this information - they gained nothing from posting this info other than sharing information.
Aftermarket exhaust manufacturers just make an exhaust for you to put on your vehicle - it is the owners responsibility if it goes over noise limits

[Stormin]

Perhaps there are legal issues. Would it comply with ADR 28/01?

[Wazza]

An exhaust bypass is not expensive to engineer, in fact I doubt it would increase the price of a HSV by a single dollar.

While the part itself would not be expensive to make/install, would it not mean that they would need to do a whole lot more testing to ensure it complied with ADRs and emission regulations? Im assuming what it does is basically bypasses the rear muffler or similar to make it louder, so if its a legal requirement to have said rear muffler, wouldn't bypassing it be just as illegal as not having it in the first place?

[youngstar]

If they can get a L98/LS2 to sound like the AM Vantage V8 then I am all for it !!!!:bow::bow::bow::bow:

[klink]

I like the idea. would like to do it on my vx but cant justify the expense to do properly.

would you want the electronic ones or just the manual type.

[mustanger]

Here you go , have a read .Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=67587)

[Caprice270]

The Corvette forum members are alive with discussion about the exhaust bypass feature in the 2008 model. People are trading in their 07s for 08s simply to get this feature. A thread talking about such trade-ins is what made me post here.

As for ADRs, my understanding is that the testing is not done at WOT. Since the bypass valve stays closed until WOT, then the exhaust can still pass the testing.

[XLR8 V8]

Here you go , have a read .http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=67587

Actually, you know what's really interesting to me .... the fact that the creator of this thread, and the creator of that thread both happen to have a WM Caprice V8 - and the wording of the first post is very very similar. But it couldn't be the same person, 'cause the person who created the older thread was permanently banned from the forums for creating multiple accounts .... mmmm .... very interesting that :hmmm:

[klink]

The Corvette forum members are alive with discussion about the exhaust bypass feature in the 2008 model. People are trading in their 07s for 08s simply to get this feature. A thread talking about such trade-ins is what made me post here.

As for ADRs, my understanding is that the testing is not done at WOT. Since the bypass valve stays closed until WOT, then the exhaust can still pass the testing.

that is correct the testing isnt done at WOT. but it varies from state to state, model to model.

as they have dropped a bit here in sa im told

[Danv8]

Actually, you know what's really interesting to me .... the fact that the creator of this thread, and the creator of that thread both happen to have a WM Caprice V8 - and the wording of the first post is very very similar. But it couldn't be the same person, 'cause the person who created the older thread was permanently banned from the forums for creating multiple accounts .... mmmm .... very interesting that :hmmm:

Looks like the classic case of forum shenanigans.

[Hammer]

Actually, you know what's really interesting to me .... the fact that the creator of this thread, and the creator of that thread both happen to have a WM Caprice V8 - and the wording of the first post is very very similar. But it couldn't be the same person, 'cause the person who created the older thread was permanently banned from the forums for creating multiple accounts .... mmmm .... very interesting that :hmmm:
Looks like the detective is onto it... :)

[XLR8 V8]

Looks like the detective is onto it... :)

Probably why he thought his old threads were deleted - he was searching under the wrong username :lmao:

Anyway, everyone feel free to continue on the topic of the thread. I'll deal with the other issue after work :)

[Hammer]

you mean when you leave the police station :)

[Devil CV8]

Actually, you know what's really interesting to me .... the fact that the creator of this thread, and the creator of that thread both happen to have a WM Caprice V8 - and the wording of the first post is very very similar. But it couldn't be the same person, 'cause the person who created the older thread was permanently banned from the forums for creating multiple accounts .... mmmm .... very interesting that :hmmm:

and there is 2 weeks between the last activity on the other account and this account being created....


sick em

[WAVESS]

Just wondering if I had elec cutouts fitted after the cats for use on the "track" would that be canary territory?
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=vshop&vid=15&pcid=8

[Vulture]

I think this is the way of the future. It probably would harm aftermarket sales, though. You can have the best of both worlds: quiet at cruise and some decent noise at WOT.

[WHLS1]

Hurt aftermarket sales?

What we really need need is an aftermarket supplier of such a system. One with an electrical lock would be great. Noise, what noise officer - if you like I will rev it to 5000 rpm he says with the exhaust bypass electrically locked out.

Perhaps one of the exhaust shop sponsors could provide some input here.

[Mungrel]

Just wondering if I had elec cutouts fitted after the cats for use on the "track" would that be canary territory?
http://www.thunderracing.com/catalog/?action=vshop&vid=15&pcid=8

Assuming it was closed on the street, i wouldn't see any problems with it.
I've thought about using those too for drag meets and track days, but when its only a 5 minute job to remove the rear resonator, i couldn't justify the $$$.

[Mr Muffler]

I think this is the way of the future. It probably would harm aftermarket sales, though. You can have the best of both worlds: quiet at cruise and some decent noise at WOT.

This option is already available, just fit my new F1 system:yahoo:, although it wont sound like you left the mufflers off at WOT.

[Thunder]

The current EPA testing is done at 75% of redline, so if it comes in at WOT it would be outside their current testing. However, if it was to be released, the testing would change to outlaw it.

There are new laws that are being introduced that make the cut out valves illegal anyway. Anything that is adjustable is illegal - ie baffles in cannons unless they are welded in, adjustable valves, etc. They are also going to be able to prosecute noisy cars and cars doing burnouts in private carparks as well.

The new laws are making it illegal to have your exhaust system any louder than 5db over the standard factory exhaust system. This means if you stock exhaust is 72db (Mitsubishi Lancer, etc) it can only ever be 77db, yet the noise limit is 90db.

The problem with cut outs is they have to be a perfect seal otherwise they leak, have to be able to take the heat and not wear. Shafts wear and then it leaks and components can be affected by heat and then not work properly. If they leak, you won't get rego and you won't be able to hide the cut out as the noise will attract attention.

Anything that creates fun in today's society is illegal !!!

PS This forum is here for everyone and it is not just here for the sponsors. The sponsors are here to learn as well, and I know I pass on a lot of free information and advice knowing I am not going to get any work from it. I think you will find most of the sponsors do the same.

The Forums can be detrimental to sponsors or businesses if they are not up to the task. You can get a bad reputation over the internet quicker than you can build up a good reputation. So you will find that all of the long term sponsors are doing a very good job and are reputable.

Cheers
Greg

[VQST80]

The new corvette uses BI-modal mufflers.

Which is a vacuum operated valve in the rear muffler that opens progressively as rpm rises.

Also the yamaha road bikes use a thing called exup valve which for what I hear is a variable backpressure valve that is semi closed at low rpm then opens at higher rpm. I would think it would be great on a bike that revs to 14 thousand rpm.

EXUP (EXhaust Ultimate Power valve) is a device fitted to selected Yamaha motorcycles (FZR,YZF,R series) that constantly adjusts the internal diameter of the exhaust system to suit engine revs. This ensures good low to mid-range performance for a linear power output all the way to the rev limiter. This is achieved by using an internal valve inside the exhaust at the point where the four pipes from the cylinders meet. Due to the high performance of these particular engines at high RPM, the exhaust valve inside the piston tends to open early. This is beneficial to the performance of the engine at high RPM, but detrimental to performance at low RPM. Closing of the valve then creates back pressure inside the exhaust system, forcing down the piston. A servo motor controlled by the Ignitor module opens and shuts the valve. The EXUP valve operation goes from being fully closed at idle speed, through to being fully open at 9000 to 11000 RPM.

[Thunder]

The old RX7's used to have one on the back muffler that opened as you accelerated so the idea has been around for years.

The exhaust still has to comply with 90db, so the mufflers are still restrictive and opening the valve frees up the exhaust at WOT.

I think the guy that started the thread wants one that dumps to atmosphere so it can be noisy, and at a flick of the button be quiet.

On a mass produced car, you are not going to get a noisy exhaust, even at WOT because the EPA will not allow manufacturers to do it.

Cheers
Greg

[Mungrel]

The current EPA testing is done at 75% of redline, so if it comes in at WOT it would be outside their current testing. However, if it was to be released, the testing would change to outlaw it.

There are new laws that are being introduced that make the cut out valves illegal anyway. Anything that is adjustable is illegal - ie baffles in cannons unless they are welded in, adjustable valves, etc. They are also going to be able to prosecute noisy cars and cars doing burnouts in private carparks as well.

The new laws are making it illegal to have your exhaust system any louder than 5db over the standard factory exhaust system. This means if you stock exhaust is 72db (Mitsubishi Lancer, etc) it can only ever be 77db, yet the noise limit is 90db.

Anything that creates fun in today's society is illegal !!!

Cheers
Greg

Thats totally anal.
How the hell do Harley's get away with it? (i have nothing against harley's, i quite like them but this "whats acceptable for one is not for another" is just bullshit...)

Personally i think having a vehicle with some exhaust noise is good because you can hear them coming if your about to cross the road. (Obviously you'd look first though)

[Thunder]

Thats totally anal.
How the hell do Harley's get away with it? (i have nothing against harley's, i quite like them but this "whats acceptable for one is not for another" is just bullshit...)

Personally i think having a vehicle with some exhaust noise is good because you can hear them coming if your about to cross the road. (Obviously you'd look first though)

It's not acceptable for Harley's either.

Next time you see a group of 20 bikies, maybe you should mention it to them !!!

That's the only reason they get away with it and we don't. We are "Soft" targets.

Cheers
Greg

[OLS108]

I Would NOT be a fan at all, part of owning a V8 is the Rumble on idle and at low speeds...

[Vulture]

EXUP (EXhaust Ultimate Power valve) is a device fitted to selected Yamaha motorcycles (FZR,YZF,R series) that constantly adjusts the internal diameter of the exhaust system to suit engine revs. .

All the other motorcycle manufacturers have the same thing just not called EXUP. My Fireblade had a similar device. It isn't about noice but rather modifying gas velocity etc to improve low down torque.

[klink]

The current EPA testing is done at 75% of redline, so if it comes in at WOT it would be outside their current testing. However, if it was to be released, the testing would change to outlaw it.


The new laws are making it illegal to have your exhaust system any louder than 5db over the standard factory exhaust system. This means if you stock exhaust is 72db (Mitsubishi Lancer, etc) it can only ever be 77db, yet the noise limit is 90db

Cheers
Greg

Hi Greg,

Just wondering if you may be able to clarify a point from above. Does the db reading vary from the year of the car etc. and what is the distance that they measure it.

I only ask this as i have a m/bike that has a plaque on it stating what the manufacturers db reading is and at what rpm and specifying the part number. and if they change the laws to 90 like you say would that mean a factory exhaust for that bike is illegal.

Thanks

Paul

[OLS108]

Hi Greg,

Just wondering if you may be able to clarify a point from above. Does the db reading vary from the year of the car etc. and what is the distance that they measure it.

I only ask this as i have a m/bike that has a plaque on it stating what the manufacturers db reading is and at what rpm and specifying the part number. and if they change the laws to 90 like you say would that mean a factory exhaust for that bike is illegal.

Thanks

Paul

I belive it QLD its 75% of where the car makes Peak power.. so Yes from my understanding it will change from model to model.

[Thunder]

In NSW it is 75% of redline for cars and they measure it at 500mm at a 45 deg angle at the same height as the exhaust tip.

Bikes maybe a bit different in the method they use to test.

For cars the 90db limit came in in 1983, previous to that it was 96db.
I have the paperwork (smoewhere) for bikes, but we hardly ever get a request to test one.

If the muffler has the compliance plate with the db rating you are fine. Some people get labels made or transfer them to noisier bikes, but I don't know how successful they are getting away with it.

We have done a few bikes where we unpick the welds on the stock heatshields, make a custom muffler and put the shields back on. The muffler looks stock, but is noisier.

The new laws I was talking about are not retrospective and were suppose to take effect on vehicles made from 1/1/2007 onwards. I am not sure whether it has taken effect or whether it will get through.

Who is going to do the testing?
How are they going to keep a track of the noise from a stock car when there are hundreds of different cars released every year? It maybe just policed by the EPA, and maybe they will introduce the noise cameras on a wider scale.

I hope this helps

Cheers
Greg

[Dickie Knee]

Thats totally anal.
How the hell do Harley's get away with it? (i have nothing against harley's, i quite like them but this "whats acceptable for one is not for another" is just bullshit...)

Personally i think having a vehicle with some exhaust noise is good because you can hear them coming if your about to cross the road. (Obviously you'd look first though)

I am yet to see a Harley over two weeks old with stock pipes.

My farther has owned 2 and the first thing they got was after market pipes. The stock pipes on the newer ones are a bit :limpy:

[michaels1v8]

Thats totally anal.
How the hell do Harley's get away with it? (i have nothing against harley's, i quite like them but this "whats acceptable for one is not for another" is just bullshit...)

Personally i think having a vehicle with some exhaust noise is good because you can hear them coming if your about to cross the road. (Obviously you'd look first though)

You can go up to the 7ft 160+KG bloke and tell him and his gang their motorbikes are too loud..

Me... I value my life :rofl:

[gollum]

Actually, you know what's really interesting to me .... the fact that the creator of this thread, and the creator of that thread both happen to have a WM Caprice V8 - and the wording of the first post is very very similar. But it couldn't be the same person, 'cause the person who created the older thread was permanently banned from the forums for creating multiple accounts .... mmmm .... very interesting that :hmmm:

Not any relation to Hogs ????

[bok1]

sorry for my ignorance on the subject but is this not what hsv are marketing on the new hsv e2 series with the exhaust (bi-moadal)?as they say the exhaust opens up when you give it 100% throttle.

phil

[Ghosn]

Not any relation to Hogs ????

Holy 'thread mining' batman! :confused:

[saaz]

I am a bike rider as well, and one complaint is that sports bikes (read non-Harleys) are targeted for noise tests and defects, but somehow harleys are ignored. If the really loud vehicles, louder than you need for actual performance, are targeted, I am fine with that if it means a little bit more note is allowed for others. I hope that my late 70s jap inline 4 with a race style exhaust comes within the classic bike/unrestricted category though :)

[Hubcap]

I am a bike rider as well, and one complaint is that sports bikes (read non-Harleys) are targeted for noise tests and defects, but somehow harleys are ignored. If the really loud vehicles, louder than you need for actual performance, are targeted, I am fine with that if it means a little bit more note is allowed for others. I hope that my late 70s jap inline 4 with a race style exhaust comes within the classic bike/unrestricted category though :)

Harley's are targeted! I was caught on Remembrance Day - idling in a quiet Victorian town, just plain bad luck. Wrong place at the wrong time. Men in blue were right behind me. Harleys and the sound of a nice V8 when ridden/driven responsibly doesn't offend anyone. As has been said many times on these threads, if you look loud, are loud and gun it in public, you're fair game.

[caphsv]

I had my 1st drive of an E2 R8 Auto with optional Bi Modal exhaust. From inside the vehicle I wasn't really impressed at all. And would save the $2290 (+33%LCT) and put it towards a quality After Market system.

It may sound better from outside but if it was mine I would want it to sound good on the inside too.

[Spoolin]

The question goes begging...why are HSV, Porsche, BMW legally allowed to use and adjustable exhaust when you or I can't fit one to our cars?

[HazzaHSV]

Holy 'thread mining' batman! :confused:

Haha.. it was only 6 days after the previous post!!!!

2 years and 6 days that is. :rofl: