Fastest Australian build production car ever

[Funky_Munky]

Hi All

This is not mean to be a sh*t stir. Just asking out of genuwine curiosity.

What is the fastest AU built production car ever? With the figures that HSV are claiming for the E Series, I would imagine it would be the VE GTS. Just wondering if this info has been substantiated.

I have also heard that a F6 Typhoon pulled 12.7 down the quarter absolutely bog stock. This also has not been substantiated, I just read it on another forum. Ive also read that it has the most torque for a AU factory standard car.

I know there are plenty of GTS vs Typhoon threads, but they usually turn to sh*t soon after the thread has been started so no real useful information. I ask that this thread stays on topic so it can be determined once and for all.

[HSV Listy]

Main stream cars i.e not CSV there was a Maloo dog standard that did 277km/h fully sanctioned only in one direction but at the SA test area. There was an article in the motor mag about it.
The old VY GTS did a 274 in an article in the motor also. I presume the Maloo would be the fastest that I have heard of and sanctioned

On the quarter side.

Lots of varables on the quarter run but I do believe the quickest off the shelf is a GTO coupe with a 4.99 sec in total street trim from 0 to 100 and the quarter was a fast one too but cant remember exactly. I will see if I can find the mag.

[LS1TOY]

ive got an idea:eyes: put your hands up if you have a stock car that fits in this class!
take a bunch to the track and flog the nuts of them too see which is quickest. make a day of it. no dealership scouts allowed.lol.
Jake,

[nang3]

yeh its too hard with too many variances in cars times... i mean look at the 12.7 second phoon and 4.99 GTO - no motor mags have come close to replicating it have they??

[Redline]

yeh its too hard with too many variances in cars times... i mean look at the 12.7 second phoon and 4.99 GTO - no motor mags have come close to replicating it have they??

Didnt MOTOR do a 13.0 or 13.1 in a standard phoon....i remember reading something like that.

[VYII_R8]

yeh its too hard with too many variances in cars times... i mean look at the 12.7 second phoon and 4.99 GTO - no motor mags have come close to replicating it have they??

Agreed. The only difference is that the 12.7 phoon was run by an owner, and the 4.99GTO time that was naver matched was a claimed time by Holden.

[HSV Listy]

Found the article on the GTO. It was in the search area and there is the article in the mag.
It was ages ago too.

Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=32807)

Well HSV said the VE can do a 4.96 from 0 to 100. I have never seen it done as yet in any article I have read but that is going off topic so I will leave it there. If there is any faster than the 4.99 it would be good to know.

[Funky_Munky]

From what I know (not much), there has been an F6 Typhoon that has run 12.7 down the quarter and the fastest the VE GTS has managed is a 13.0.

Both cars were bog stock. Id be very interested to find out the details of each run. Would make for an interesting read.

[nang3]

Agreed. The only difference is that the 12.7 phoon was run by an owner, and the 4.99GTO time that was naver matched was a claimed time by Holden.

I thought the 4.99 GTO was run by a mag not holden, but seeing as no one ever matched it, it was thought to have been a 'handpicked' vehicle??? Owners cars should generally always be faster than magazine results - later in the day cooler air, strip runout thingy etc etc

I think you'll never be able to determine whats the faster production car nowadays.. the cars are getting that close thats its not clearcut..

unfortunately with the wide production tolerances allowed by the aussie car industry you cant just grab a phoon and a GTO off the shelf and expect it to be an accurate example of each model.. you might get a slow 13.4 phoon or a fast 4.99 GTO and vice versa

[youngstar]

Very hard to compare as different magazines have different testing procedues.

Some do all their testing with driver, passenger and full tank of fuel while others just have the driver and half a tank of fuel. (Pretty sure MOTOR and WHEELS use different testing procedues)

Guess you would even then have to look at the weight of the driver and passenger !!! I would be no good for speed records being 6'2" and 120kgs ! :beer:

[DuffMan]

Surely Elfin would hold this title with the gen3 clubman and streamliner wouldn't they?

[troytroy]

IMPORTANT VARIABLES:

1. Wheels Magazine use a passenger and a full tank - hence why their figures are always slower than MOTOR magazine. Will you have the spare wheel in the boot?

2. Will you flat shift? or do Max RPM launches (WRX-EVO) or will you drive it like an owner rather than a tester ;)

3. When you say fastest....over what distance? Quarter mile, runway, curved and banked test track....? Because there will be variances there as well.

4. Will both cars be fully run in or will they be straight out of the factory? (this will effect grip on tyres, tight engine tolerances etc which vary across manufacturers)

5. What time of day, temperature and humidity will it be....Modern cars are tuned differently to factor these environmental influences...we all know how much the Holden/HSV software cuts back timing in the V8's when hot...Turbo cars with small intercoolers and aggressive software can dramatically de-tune the car and produce woeful peformance figures.....will all cars run when cool or warmed up? WRX/STis with their top mount interwarmers suffer bad heatsoak when left running and stationary.

5. The Driver would have to be the same for consistancy reasons and be familiar with gearstick nuances between models (and the same weight as well)

6. Then of course as pointed out previously there are factory "press cars" and then there are normal factory cars and then you get slight differences across the same model.

[nang3]

yeh lets just let Elfin be the winner haha

[HSV Listy]

Elfin is harldy a main stream car (never seen one yet of any model) but I guess they would have it if total numbers sold did not count.

You can get the GPS recorders off the shelf that test 0 to 100 now for about $500. Should get one and hand it for a few bucks per rental with the members to see what people do on the street with their standard cars before mods and after mods. As long as it is 0 to 100 and somewhere quite that should not be too much of an issue.
I am not offering but Darwin is a bit small for that sort of thing.

[planetdavo]

Troytroy answers EXACTLY why this question will never be anything but someones bragging rights.
Too many variables to be definitive....

[CV860L]

I'm sure the 0-100 in the GTO was set by Motor Mag.
As for the 12.7 Phoon, I read a thread on that somewhwere and apparently the spare was taken out, tyre pressured was changed, air filter came out and a few other things I can't remember.........there was a bit more to that story I think.

[planetdavo]

I'm sure the 0-100 in the GTO was set by Motor Mag.

It was a Turismo blue VZ GTO LS2 manual, in Motor as you say, who are pretty well known for running light cars and fairly abusive shift methods.

[vyssbeast]

It was a Turismo blue VZ GTO LS2 manual, in Motor as you say, who are pretty well known for running light cars and fairly abusive shift methods.

It was definatly AUTO ... i was just reading the article today while gettin my cars serviced at holden... interesting that it just happens to pop up on ls1 the same day!

[CV860L]

It was definatly AUTO ... i was just reading the article today while gettin my cars serviced at holden... interesting that it just happens to pop up on ls1 the same day!

Yeah I remember them saying an auto also and also remember seeing a small pic along with the article........and it was Turismo.

[DuffMan]

Elfin is harldy a main stream car (never seen one yet of any model) but I guess they would have it if total numbers sold did not count.

The thread is about production cars. You added the mainstream part to it.

As far as i'm concerned, if you can walk into a HSV dealership and buy one then it's a production car.

[mmciau]

There is a difference between "quickest" and "fastest"

I'd suggest quickest relates to "0 to whatever" and fastest would be maximum speed!

for example, that Maloo that Skaife ran in the north of SA was "fast"

[planetdavo]

It was definatly AUTO ... i was just reading the article today while gettin my cars serviced at holden... interesting that it just happens to pop up on ls1 the same day!

I stand corrected.

[nang3]

I'm sure the 0-100 in the GTO was set by Motor Mag.
As for the 12.7 Phoon, I read a thread on that somewhwere and apparently the spare was taken out, tyre pressured was changed, air filter came out and a few other things I can't remember.........there was a bit more to that story I think.

hmmm i know the 12.7 sec phoon had a different air filter (BMC IIRC) which have been dyno proven time and time again to not make a shred of difference to the turbo 6 in terms of kw/nm - most owners (me inc) change it for a better induction note and also a perceived (due to the sound) acceleration gain... even if it added 2rwkw or so, that would maybe shave 0.05 off the time...
as for the tyre pressure being changed - its still OEM equipment and counts as stock IMO...
But if the spare had been removed then that changes things as its no longer as it was off the showroom floor..

I just had a look at the elfin stuff - tell me one of them wouldnt be the most fun ever !!!

http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/car/3134/Elfin-MS8-Streamliner-50th-Anniversary.html

[IH8HSV]

Also 12.9 at eastern creek stock F6 straight off the showroom floor

[EfiJy]

a lot of bs in this thread. no stocky does 12 sec

if ya believe it yr gullible

[ballbreaker]

I did a 13.140 in my F6 auto @ 108 mph with a 2040 60 fotter its dead stock half tank of gas,with my G tec meter 0 to 100 ks 5.1sec but i think the GTS cauld do better as its got a bigger foot print 275 and the F6 only 245 . Does it really matter both car are animals i mean from the factory they are.CHEERS BB

[Mondie]

It would have to be one of these...

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_9281Large.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_9293Large.jpg

Aussie Muscle car mag issue 15 claim this is Australis fastest ever production car, the last few cars made had 225kw and had a published 12.9 sec qtr mile time

Cheers Mondie

[payaya]

The F6 is old news. Motor Mag have the F6 as quick if not quicker than any HSV in a straight line.

The HSV runs wider tyres than the F6.

Once the next Orion comes out with rumoured 300KW which would mean about 580-600NM of torque with wider tyres no doubt it would be a much quicker machine.

[mustanger]

The F6 is old news. Motor Mag have the F6 as quick if not quicker than any HSV in a straight line.

The HSV runs wider tyres than the F6.

Once the next Orion comes out with rumoured 300KW which would mean about 580-600NM of torque with wider tyres no doubt it would be a much quicker machine.

What a load of crap.......Quote Motor Magazine June 2007

FPV F6 0-400 M 13.5

HSV GTS 0-400M 13.4

So where is your proof?

I agree they are similar but you you make it out as they are miles in front :lmao:

[alto]

good one mondie.

nice car by the way - got anymore pics

[Mondie]

Here's a few more Alto. l reckon it wins the title too unless anyone can come up with another car l am not aware of

Cheers

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_9283Large.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_9300Large.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_9306Large.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_9308Large.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/gioshow.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_8775Large.jpg

http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j270/simongara/Giocattolo/IMG_8699Large.jpg

[IH8HSV]

What a load of crap.......Quote Motor Magazine June 2007

FPV F6 0-400 M 13.5

HSV GTS 0-400M 13.4

So where is your proof?

I agree they are similar but you you make it out as they are miles in front :lmao:

F6 times were done on a 40 degree day
We all know turbos dont like the hot air

[pushrod4life]

There's also a comparo in Wheels June 2007 recorded on the same day with the same temperatures (28 deg.)

FPV F6 Typhoon

0-100k: 5.9
0-400m: 13.9@163km/h

HSV GTS

0-100k: 5.5
0-400m: 13.7@165km/h

[troytroy]

NICE GIOCATTOLA! Love the concept of it. small/medium sized car - jam big engine in it to make it very very fun.

Ok, so we're still at the varying evidence examples mark are we?

Every magazine has recorded different timings for the Phoon and GTS, My 2 cents worth would be that the Phoon and GTS are safely 5.something second cars 0-100. (show me two owners and two GTS's that will run exactly the same times for 0-100? - it wont happen as at that level their will be differences and too many variables. The 4.96 that HSV quote for the GTS seems similar how Subaru quoted 0-100 times for their WRX's a while back(Cody Crocker drove them for testing and probably did 6,000rpm launches and flat shifted - hardly what an owner is going to do at every set of lights (well at least not for long anyway:))

On a nice cool morning and some nice sticky smooth road (are we still in Australia??:confused:) I have no doubt that a GTS or Phoon will be in the very low 5's for 0-100. But noting that motoring Nirvana - is just that, and Australian roads are renowned to be the worst and the temperatures are not exactly arctic around here it's merely a moot point. Some people see using slicks on their cars at the drags and call them standard or production - some people see that as cheating and don't represent a registered driveable every day family/fast car! - so there's another variable as well.

And lastly the biggest point we've encountered so far - "WHAT is an Australian Production car?" The key variable here is production numbers. If you allow small numbers then every minor manufacturer, homolgation special, commercial tuner and backyarder will be able to claim the title!!! If I build a 12.9 Litre Big Block Cobra (refer to a German company that makes just that - no shit!- http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=47&i=14850) as far as the RTA are concerned it's an individual independent manufactured car. Will that make me the fastest Australian production car maker?

Ok back to reality.

So we're no closer to even asking the correct question - and it's been three pages so far!

Please someone ask a definative, well defined question so this can be easily settled!

[Alex(AUS)]

Almost every review (Motor / Wheels) since VZ to VE has the HSV being quicker than the F6 ... I think there may be 1 or 2 exceptions but I think there would be 10 or so going HSVs way. I have every article ... I cant be bothered counting ... maybe I will do it later ...

Alex

[IH8HSV]

We dont really see too many stock F6's to compare, most of them get modded
Why wouldnt they with 3k spent on them u have a 11 sec street car

[seedyrom]

Define fastest.

Kthnxbye

[Jag530G]

Are you talking top speeds? I'd be doubtful that a phase three was faster than either the VL Walky or VN Group A. The VR GTS was good for 246kph and the VT1 GTS was good for 252KpH in Wheels testing. Then we had the C4Bs which were good for 280kph, IIRC the autos were faster because their gearing suited top speed. I doubt an F6 went that fast, netter acceleration yes but sped is about top end power. Since VE, HSV have put 250kph speed limiters on and I never saw a top speed (delimited) test of the W427 or VF GTS.

Cheers, Matthew

[johnfhall]

... and I never saw a top speed (delimited) test of the W427 or VF GTS.
Cheers, Matthew

My heresay is that the GEN-F GTS at Bathurst did 290kph down conrod... Heard it at my HSV dealer though. :)

[Jag530G]

My heresay is that the GEN-F GTS at Bathurst did 290kph down conrod... Heard it at my HSV dealer though. :)

Christ, that's a reliable source!!! Mind you you'd think 300kph would be in the ball park, althoough I think much would depend on the gearing more so than the power. (same story for the W427, it probably has close to the power for 300kph, just not sure if the gearing suits it)

Cheers, Matthew

[IJ.]

Are you talking top speeds? I'd be doubtful that a phase three was faster than either the VL Walky or VN Group A. The VR GTS was good for 246kph and the VT1 GTS was good for 252KpH in Wheels testing. Then we had the C4Bs which were good for 280kph, IIRC the autos were faster because their gearing suited top speed. I doubt an F6 went that fast, netter acceleration yes but sped is about top end power. Since VE, HSV have put 250kph speed limiters on and I never saw a top speed (delimited) test of the W427 or VF GTS.

Cheers, Matthew

I remember reading in Wheels at the time the phase 3 was good for a genuine 144 Mph in road trim so around 232, the Taxi wasn't that fast by modern day standards.

[CLUBRED]

My heresay is that the GEN-F GTS at Bathurst did 290kph down conrod... Heard it at my HSV dealer though. :)

With limiter removed.

I dare say Ford will have a crack, HSV will be all over it though as I don't think they're even close to packing up yet.

[Decromin]

Christ, that's a reliable source!!! Mind you you'd think 300kph would be in the ball park, althoough I think much would depend on the gearing more so than the power. (same story for the W427, it probably has close to the power for 300kph, just not sure if the gearing suits it)

Cheers, Matthew

I asked the guy driving it, and he reckons 280 at the chase. Nudging 300 on a proper bowl or straight may be possible in the VF GTS

https://twitter.com/GarthTander/status/390734724789841920

[swingtan]

Just a point....

FAST = measurement of speed.
QUICK = measurement of time.

The "fastest" car would have the highest top speed.
The "quickest" car would have the shortest 1/4 mile time.

Please continue. :teach:

[jaykay]

Based on swingtans description then it would have to be a pre VE car for Holden/HSV due to speed limiters from factory from VE on.....not sure what the blue oval cars get / got not interested....

[Xjas]

Wonder how the Elfin Roadsters would stack up in a top speed comparison, VY spec engine with a much smaller frontal area should give them a very high top speed.

[team illucid]

I would have thought it would have been the L34 with the "Bathurst option" ticked on pickup.

Good for a high 12 - however no official times were ever offered by Holden given the supercar scare.

[SASLS1]

The E49 Charger was the fastest accelerating car in Australia in the 1970's, over the quarter and 0 - 100...

[flappist]

All FPVs are/were limited to 250km/h, all XR6T/8s are/were limited to 230 km/h, All E & F series HSVs are/were limited to 250km/h

The fastest unlimited Falcon was the T3 which did just over 240km/h, the road GTHOs did 230 odd.

The fastest stock HSVs were the Z series at around 280km/h.

Of course everyone has a mate whose [insert car here] did 40 gazilion km/h into a 100kt headwind as confirmed by their speedo which was 100% accurate coz the salesman said so.

Modded Commodores and Falcons have all be demonstrated at over 300km/h with the fastest magazine test being a XR6T at 307 km/h at Avalon airport.

As far as quickest, again everyone has a mate whose [insert car here] did 4.5 seconds into a 100kt headwind on a 50 degree day, but the quickest magazine recorded 0-400 is the FPV GT R-Spec which is 0.1s quicker than the LSA F GTS. (check the test in MOTOR and then look at the previous month's issue in the back where they had the new car prices).

Hopefully one day there will be a head to head test of all of the Falcadore hero cars i.e. W427, LSA, GTS Monaro, F6, GT R-Spec all on the same airport runway at the same time 0-1000m.
This is the ONLY way that the excuses as to why the "precious" did not do as well as it should have done except for [insert excuse here] will be finally moot.

[jaykay]

Excerpt from Car Advice drive report with Greg Murphy in the W427 on 15/9/08 -

“You know this thing has a fuel cut out at 270km/h,” he casually drops into our conversation.

“How do I know, well I hit it” he adds.

I suggest to “Murph” that it would be a good idea to check that again and we continue to gather speed relentlessly moving up the lanes of the speed bowl as we rocket around heading closer and closer to the end of the 290km/h speedo.

Full report here ....... http://www.caradvice.com.au/16554/hsv-w427-goes-270kmh/

[Jag530G]

All the top speed tests of the VT2-VZ 6 spped manual V8s achieved top speed in 5th but were running out of revs, 6th was simply too tall and actually was slower. I suspect that a manual 6 speed fitted with a higher 3.08 diff might have been the ideal for top speed, it would have allowed the car to go a bit faster in 5th.

Cheers, Matthew

[Angeldust]

VZ with Ls2.. yay!

[team illucid]

All the top speed tests of the VT2-VZ 6 spped manual V8s achieved top speed in 5th but were running out of revs, 6th was simply too tall and actually was slower. I suspect that a manual 6 speed fitted with a higher 3.08 diff might have been the ideal for top speed, it would have allowed the car to go a bit faster in 5th.

Cheers, Matthew
That's what my VT was - a 6spd with a 3.07 diff .. certainly interesting.

[macca_779]

That's what my VT was - a 6spd with a 3.07 diff .. certainly interesting.

I don't think modified from standard really counts mate

[GTS LSA]

VZ LS2 GTO manual.... maybe :idea:, cant say I am up to speed on any specifics, but reading through the thread, it may have been the go..... and I am biased since I had one :)

[IJ.]

I don't think modified from standard really counts mate
Well that opens up a canOworms Macca, rules the VF GTS out due to it's limiter on public roads ;)

[macca_779]

Well that opens up a canOworms Macca, rules the VF GTS out due to it's limiter on public roads ;)

Good point. If it were a factory option like in the euros it would be one thing. But as far as I know it isnt

[Jag530G]

VZ LS2 GTO manual.... maybe :idea:, cant say I am up to speed on any specifics, but reading through the thread, it may have been the go..... and I am biased since I had one :)

Probably right. and since production means not removing the limiter, the fastest Aussie car is most likely the Z series Coupe GTO auto. The Monaro and GTO has less frontal area due to lower roff line and better Cd than the sedans, mainly because of the small lip on the standard Monaro boot was great for airflow separation (its why the ECOmmodore was built using a Monaro shell but with 4 doors, better aerodynamcis) and the GTO didn't have a big rear spoiler like the HSV sedans.

Holden actually went backwards from the VN when it comes to sedan Cd, the VE was around 0.35, even the VF isn't great shakes, its now about 0.32-0.33. The VL Walky was 0.32. By comparion the Mercedes E Class is 0.25.

Cheers, Matthew

[GTS LSA]

the fastest Aussie car is most likely the Z series Coupe GTO auto.

Cheers, Matthew

I do recall reading an article at the time stating the GTO as the fastest HSV ever, but I don't know what the definition of fastest was.

I know weight maybe and aero definately the GTO has it covered, but again not sure on diff, I know one of the 1st mods I did was diff

[XUV]

Holden actually went backwards from the VN when it comes to sedan Cd, the VE was around 0.35, even the VF isn't great shakes, its now about 0.32-0.33. The VL Walky was 0.32. By comparion the Mercedes E Class is 0.25.

Cheers, Matthew
and anything with a 0.3 cd needs at least 600hp to crack 300kph.

[jc_sv8]

I remember a wheels article years ago when they did a speed test at Avalon.
I'll see if I can dig it up. The Commodore was third fastest given the euros had a 250 limiter.

[Jag530G]

I do recall reading an article at the time stating the GTO as the fastest HSV ever, but I don't know what the definition of fastest was.

I know weight maybe and aero definately the GTO has it covered, but again not sure on diff, I know one of the 1st mods I did was diff

Interesting note about the Monaro aero is that the Monaro that was built for Peter Hananberger as a retirement present had a HRT427 show car style front splitter on a pretty standard looking Monaro (not HSV) front bar and the HRT 427 small lip spoiler at the back as well. Presumably to help it down the autobahns with Hananberger took it back to Germany.

Cheers, Matthew

[GTS LSA]

^ nice, I always wanted a HRT427 kit on Monaro, but thought it might be a bit try hard, the one of like that would be a nice addition to the garage

[team illucid]

I don't think modified from standard really counts mate

just a diff ratio - factory optioned ;)

[macca_779]

just a diff ratio - factory optioned ;)

What model was that an option in? Never seen an m6 ls1 not have a 3.46 as the tallest available from factory. Besides LSD I didn't think there ever has been an option to get something different

[HSV Listy]

just a diff ratio - factory optioned ;)

I though the maloo ute did a official 277 km/h in that top speed test by skaife on the return run. Any production cars faster above that on official record run

Not aware of any from many mags I've read

[brasher]

hehe enjoying the MOTOR/Wheels arguing.

For most test from 2009-2012 I would have been at them all, especially the Ford/Holden comparo's.