David Morley continues LS1 Rant

[Caprice270]

David Morley has again attacked the LS1's performance. First he dedicated his Motor column to having a go, and now he has done it gaain in a Coupe 4 review in that joke of a website - Drive. He has clearly spent too long indulging in high class, $100k+ Euro luxo-rockets to appreciate the BFYB qualities of LS1 powered cars:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=43724&s_cid=drivers_seat

[vt350phantom]

David Morley has again attacked the LS1's performance. First he dedicated his Motor column to having a go, and now he has done it gaain in a Coupe 4 review in that joke of a website - Drive. He has clearly spent too long indulging in high class, $100k+ Euro luxo-rockets to appreciate the BFYB qualities of LS1 powered cars:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=43724&s_cid=drivers_seat

What a cockhead! How many Euro "rockets" run low 11s for an outlay of around 55k?

[mustanger]

Gee, he gave it a baggen. :vpo:

I get the impression he doesn`t like LS1`s. :)

[Danv8]

Stuff him really.
I don't take any notice to car journo's anymore.
They write an article and has as much filling as my daughter's full nappy.
:)

[Souljah]

Who cares what he writes. If it helps him sleep at night thats all that matters.

[T_Kiwi]

Fair comments i reckon:) they certainly made sense to me

[DaveHAT]

He is a bit of a knob but unfortunately some of what he said is true ... in so far as it applies to nearly ALL LS1 engined cars, not just the Coupe4. The LS1 in stock form is a doughy not overly exciting engine in reality which DOES need to be revved to get the most out of it. Remeber now ... we're speaking in STOCK form.

Perhaps he should get his arse into HSV-105, JusticeR8 or especially NickS's Coupe4 ... then he might rethink his comments :lol:

IMO he couldn't have got it more wrong when he commented that it "looked all wrong". The flared guards and other Coupe4 specific stuff is what makes it stand apart from the rest.

I suppose he can't help but be a well paid dumbass? :confused:

[Caprice270]

I just don't like the snobby attitude he's starting to develop. Not everyone can afford an M3 or the like, neither do they have the right contacts to secure an M3 in a reasonable timeframe even if they had the right amount of money. He should review each car in the context of its competitors.

[eldan89]

While he might hold a snobby attitude, he does argue a fair point about the LS1. We have had an LS1 powered Monaro and an LS1 powered HSV Senator and they were both "lazy" at low revs. That aside the LS1 is a great engine for the price, anything similar in a euro car would be about 3x the price.

*EDIT* The LS2 in the VE is how the LS1 should have been, loads of usable power low down.

[SteveK]

I beg to differ. He comes across pretty reasonable in his arguments. But this comment doesn't make sense.


Add it all up and you can see why the Coupe 4 will not be remembered too fondly by HSV and its customers.

Any 'customer' would know exactly what they were getting into when buying this car, especially the looks so the point is moot.

I do somewhat agree in his comment about tackiness of the wheel arches. I don't agree that it has a tacky add-on feel; I believe the execution is not tacky, it's the original idea to go this route that is rather than developing some proper sheet metal.

[Spectrum]

I think he makes valid points. I signed up for a Coupe but cancelled after test driving one.

[Marco]

Sounds to me like he makes a few good points. I don't think I would have shelled over the money for one new - looked crook like most HSVs since 2001 IMHO, and the auto transmission would have killed it for me. Add less power, more weight and a high pricetag and it doesn't sound like the sort of thing that I would want to own.

[EfiJy]

i agree with morly the coupe4 is crap. slow, heavy and over$$$$

[superoo]

If he's complaining about the wheel arches on the coupe4, his opinion on the adventra/avalanche should be worth waiting for......

[Spectrum]

If he's complaining about the wheel arches on the coupe4, his opinion on the adventra/avalanche should be worth waiting for......

I think the arches on the Adventra work: one of the visual reasons I bought an LX8...:)

[muzza]

I read this in the Age I think - not unreasonable comments overall in the light of 20-20 hindsight.

The Coupe4 was heavy and the Holden V8 AWD system was tied to the old 4 speed auto - not the best device even by standards of a few years ago. Similar criticisms were dropped by many journos on the V8 Adventra/Crewman when they came out.

The body looks great - but that's a personal view as is his.

I think he has unfarily tarred all LS1's with oil burning/noise issues as most journos tend to do now rather than specifying the certain vintages of engines that actually HAD the problem.

He probably shoud have mentioned that with a PD supercharger things could be improved substantially......

[Danv8]

He is a bit of a knob but unfortunately some of what he said is true ... in so far as it applies to nearly ALL LS1 engined cars, not just the Coupe4. The LS1 in stock form is a doughy not overly exciting engine in reality which DOES need to be revved to get the most out of it. Remeber now ... we're speaking in STOCK form.

Perhaps he should get his arse into HSV-105, JusticeR8 or especially NickS's Coupe4 ... then he might rethink his comments :lol:

IMO he couldn't have got it more wrong when he commented that it "looked all wrong". The flared guards and other Coupe4 specific stuff is what makes it stand apart from the rest.

I suppose he can't help but be a well paid dumbass? :confused:

Agreed about NickS's coupe 4 I certainly wouldn't mind a coupe 4 and adding some forced induction to it.

[HSV Listy]

I did think about one when shoping for my next car. It was on my list to check out. Just about everything he said is spot on but I hate his guts still. The main reason was I did not fit in it and a baby poped up but I am very glad I brought the avalanche instead. All the cons against the coupe 4 works really well on the avalanche.
Auto, AWD, wide wheel arches, wide wheel base, better price, etc etc.

Dont get me wrong I would really like a coupe 4 but it would have to be supercharged and manual.

[CS1234]

What a tool, all he is doing is just getting people fired up so his head gets bigger.

How many "Euro" cars drive hard durning low revs.

He is comparing a car that cost $50 - 150K less then the euro cars.
Spend that much money on the coupe and then drive it again and let us know how you found it.:soap:

[Vulture]

I read this in the Age I think - not unreasonable comments overall in the light of 20-20 hindsight.

True, he has some good points about the Coup4. But I always like to try and check out what the journos wrote about the car back when it was released. I am not sure in the case of Mr Morely but I somehow doubt he was as scathing at the time it was released and if not, why?. The way some of these journo's opinions can change dramatically over a few years is laughable.



I think he has unfairly tarred all LS1s with oil burning/noise issues as most journos tend to do now rather than specifying the certain vintages of engines that actually HAD the problem.

This is a serious point and borderline vindictive. It is a disgraceful act of misinformation.

[Swordie]

I have read a couple of Morley's LS1 articles and agree about his comment on low down torque. I prefer to hear an honest opinion.

[Pickles]

I thought Morley's article in The AGE, about the Coupe 4, was totally negative---and whilst I don't own a Coupe 4, all of the owners I know are absolutely wrapped in them--a person like Morley should obviously know that the Coupe 4 is not just about outright speed--it's also about a MAJOR engineering exercise conducted by HSV with very satisfactory results.
IMHO if there's one HSV car that will be collectable in the future, it'll be the Coupe 4.
Cheers, Pickles.

[vt350phantom]

I just don't like the snobby attitude he's starting to develop. Not everyone can afford an M3 or the like, neither do they have the right contacts to secure an M3 in a reasonable timeframe even if they had the right amount of money. He should review each car in the context of its competitors.

Totally agree with this. Well said.

For the money, the LS1 powered cars are good value. Not everyone has 100k plus to spend on a car!


What a tool, all he is doing is just getting people fired up so his head gets bigger.

How many "Euro" cars drive hard durning low revs.

He is comparing a car that cost $50 - 150K less then the euro cars.
Spend that much money on the coupe and then drive it again and let us know how you found it.:soap:

Another good point. Buy a 50k SS for example and spend 20 grand on it and you have a car that is a third of the price of an M5 and a whole lot faster and more fun!

[Caprice270]

True, he has some good points about the Coup4. But I always like to try and check out what the journos wrote about the car back when it was released. I am not sure in the case of Mr Morely but I somehow doubt he was as scathing at the time it was released and if not, why?. The way some of these journo's opinions can change dramatically over a few years is laughable.



Yeah I remember the article Motor had back then...the pic in the Drive article is from back then I think. I remember they bogged it in mud and had to get it towed out. They made the interior filthy in the process. But I dont think it was Morley who did the article on the new Coupe 4.

But Morley is just turning into a turd. Fair enough his LS1 comments may be true, I have said similar things myself, but he also had a go at the VE SS on the same page that it was declared BFYB champ for the second year running. He has been living the champaign and cavier lifestyle for too long to be able to appreciate good value.

[Funky_Munky]

He certainly makes some good points. Most notedly -


If all that wasn't enough to sink the car before it even hit the showroom, there was the problem of transmission choice. More specifically, the lack of it.

Holden only ever developed the all-wheel-drive platform with the four-speed automatic transmission in mind, so that's all that could be fitted to the Coupe 4 without a lot of costly redevelopment and validation. The result was that the very car that probably should have been available with a six-speed manual wasn't.

[csv rulz]

The coupe 4 - my favourite looking HSV of all time.

Maybe he should drive NickS coupe 4

[BaBarracus]

I think some of you guys forget just how dodgy some of the LS1's actually were.

The piston slap and oil burning issues of earlier (and not necessarily just earlier) examples are well documented (I mean if a major manufacturer like Holden is willing to admit there was a problem... then it must've been pretty bad!) and they are a bit doughy below about 3000rpm.

Morleys comments just outline some of the shortcomings of the LS1....... and at least he goes on to note that they make good power at higher revs! so he is not totally one eyed!

As far as the Coupe 4 goes, I didn't read too many good things about them when they first came out and as for blokes who have them and 'reckon they are awesome'? I knew a bloke with a Lada Niva once.....he liked that too!

The great Aussie muscle car is - big engine up the front - two wheels driving at the back - and generally with a manual cog swapper in the middle. I'm just not convinced with the business case for HSV with an AWD platform.... and I guess, in the end, niether were they!

[AFAR]

Im probably going to get hated for this.
But if i was to buy an AWD car with factory performance in mind.
Id skip the coupe 4 and buy an EVO.


AWD with a 4(FOUR) speed automatic is just completly stupid.
Car shouldn't have been marketed at retired 60 year olds who wanted an upgraded monaro in the first place.

[CV860L]

I reckon that if someone takes the time to go back through the past 6 or 7 yrs of MOTOR they will find an article where Morley praise's the engine.

All of his views against the engine are compared against euro V8's costing at least double and sometimes triple the cost of a Holden.

Personally I'm not worried by his comments as I take them all with a grain of salt.

A few years back Wheels or Motor was praising an Audi statio that cost $60,000+ yet was fitted with an NA 2.0L that was doing 0-100 times in 11 or 12 secs.............For $60K I'd at least want a push button system that gives hj's on demand by a decent sort for it to be worthwhile.

[Evman]

I reckon that if someone takes the time to go back through the past 6 or 7 yrs of MOTOR they will find an article where Morley praise's the engine.

On that note, I was cleaning up my old mags and came across the Wheels July 2004 issue with the Coupe4 on the cover. It includes quotes (not by Morley) such as;

"...having just stepped from a spirited, limit-probing drive of HSV's Coupe4, we have out answer - bloody excellent! All the concerns, which we'll detail in a moment about weight, reduced engine output, and the end of smoking powerslides, appear to be ... if not unfounded, perhaps overstated."

"[HSV managing director John Crennan] sees it aligning more closely with the executive express side of the business: think Grange and Senator..."

Hehehe, again Crennan, "There's no doubt in my mind that, in five years time, the role of AWD in our range will be profound. It will be a very significant part of our business..." Well, maybe if fuel proces didn't rise :confused:

"The real surprise with Coupe4, however, is the absence of understeer."

"...the GenIII is down 15kw and 35Nm compared with GTO...yet the Coupe4's HSV tweaked GenIII V8 remains a meat-encrusted beast, with ample grunt for anyone bar those fixated on numbers (Morley)".

Bleh it's late and I've sorted through about 50 Motor, Wheels, Street Machine and Street Commodores magazines to try and find more, but it's late haha.


If you've ever wondered why the all-new VE Commodore wasn't designed with an all-wheel-drive variant in the line-up, cars like the Coupe 4 are the answer.

Umm...Everyone's going on about fuel consumption bla bla, and Morley thinks the reason there isn't an AWD VE is because of the Coupe4. What a knob. Funny that the VE was designed to accomodate AWD if need be at a later date then...

Evan

[HSV271]

Sorry but Morley it a tool, his comments about the Coupe4 & LS1 is that of an bitter person that obviously hasn't been paid enough money(Again) to say anything good.

Another reason why I stopped buying Motor magazine because of this twit.

:flipoff::flipoff::flipoff::flipoff::flipoff: BIG TIME MORLEY

[emg]

everything he said was true except for the wheel arches.

[BLAQSSHEV]

everything he said was true except for the wheel arches.

Really come over and check my unchanged oil level, and put your ear to my motor and listen to no slap...SHAME :rofl:
As said before how hard is it to spend 1 grand for a tune and get that lower end sorted...pffft hes an idiot.. they sell LS1's tuned like that so some 65 year old with slow reflexes doesnt launch in to a gutter .Thats what mods and tunes are for..Not for launching into gutters but going hard throughout the rev range.

[XLR8 V8]

Who cares what he says. The car was released 3 years ago, and it's obvious he's just chosen to publish an article about it now because his deadline came up and he'd been too lazy to write one yet, so he just pulled a crap one out of his computers recycle bin. We've all seen NickS's car, and Darren's one in the Dutton, so we know the potential of these machines. I'd still buy one in a second if the opportunity and price presented itself, even AFTER reading his whinge, so who really cares what he says.
And as for his comments about the LS1 being a rubbish engine ... we'll have to tell the guys running 10's that 'cause they obviously forgot to read the article :lol:

[lowriding]

yeah , i'm sure morley tries to stir it up to boost his profile or create a fuss intentionally,seems to have the editor on his side .Who really cares ,do what i do don't buy it anymore.:)

[MaDDoG]

I drive an auto VY2 Senator at home and VE SS at work....for me the main differences between the two are the auto transmissions. I would love to try the 6 speed auto on my LS1 and compare them then.
The LS1 in my HSV really hoots but yes it does need to get into the revs. But I also find that you need to push the LS2 to get the boogie happening. In a straight line I'm sure my LS1 would win.....but it would be close until we get into higher speeds.

[duke5700]

Ahh bugger him. My lowly dog of a VX will comfortably hand most euro's there ass through the twistys and in a straight line.

[caseyp]

David needs to do the following
I quote from Chopper Reid's Better Half: HARDEN THE f!!!!!!! UP and at the end of the day BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT

[emg]

People are getting ahead of themselves here. Take a step back and see that Morley is reviewing the car STOCK. Not with turbos, tunes, suspension etc. Fair comments for a stock car but it's pointless to whinge over what he's saying.. you should all be whinging at HSV more than anything.

[Caprice270]

On that note, I was cleaning up my old mags and came across the Wheels July 2004 issue with the Coupe4 on the cover. It includes quotes (not by Morley) such as;

"...having just stepped from a spirited, limit-probing drive of HSV's Coupe4, we have out answer - bloody excellent! All the concerns, which we'll detail in a moment about weight, reduced engine output, and the end of smoking powerslides, appear to be ... if not unfounded, perhaps overstated."

"[HSV managing director John Crennan] sees it aligning more closely with the executive express side of the business: think Grange and Senator..."

Hehehe, again Crennan, "There's no doubt in my mind that, in five years time, the role of AWD in our range will be profound. It will be a very significant part of our business..." Well, maybe if fuel proces didn't rise :confused:

"The real surprise with Coupe4, however, is the absence of understeer."

"...the GenIII is down 15kw and 35Nm compared with GTO...yet the Coupe4's HSV tweaked GenIII V8 remains a meat-encrusted beast, with ample grunt for anyone bar those fixated on numbers (Morley)".

Bleh it's late and I've sorted through about 50 Motor, Wheels, Street Machine and Street Commodores magazines to try and find more, but it's late haha.



Umm...Everyone's going on about fuel consumption bla bla, and Morley thinks the reason there isn't an AWD VE is because of the Coupe4. What a knob. Funny that the VE was designed to accomodate AWD if need be at a later date then...

Evan

Great work Evman but it probably highlights that Morley's article is accurate but also the fact that Motor is reluctant to criticise new Holdens because there would be some serious loss of advertising dollars and other benefits, including all the champaign and cavier served up to fill Morley's big pot at various Holden launches. Three years later and fat Morley has had the guts to give an honest, unbiased opinion because he knows the VE will not be effected by negative comments about an old model. He would not show such courage with the VE.

These b*stards were talking crap three years ago that made us all drool and go out and hand out our hard earned cash to experience this great car Motor had reviewed, and now three years later the same mob starts talking about how crap it is. Well I'm not renewing my subscription to Motor because I'm fed up with reading dishonest articles that were written up by some moron after half a dozen glasses of Shiraz and the keys to a brand new SS-V that is a "long term test car". Autoblog.com is all I need to keep up with whats happening in the motoring world.

[Redhot_57]

I think we need to take a step back and look at the big picture. At the end of the day he is just another bloke and his opinion is worth no more than anyone else's, regardless of how good he likes to think he is..

I have always bought cars based on my own drive experiences and feel, not because some journo tells me its a cool car. There are plenty of motoring journos out there - some are switched on, informed and objective, others are, well...

I know which group Id put him in.

[V-Car]

David needs to do the following
I quote from Chopper Reid's Better Half: HARDEN THE f!!!!!!! UP and at the end of the day BUILD A BRIDGE AND GET OVER IT

I think that half the posters in this thread need to take that advice instead.
What a bunch of cry baby whingers!
:bawl::bawl::bawl: