Ve 1/4 Mile And Modification Comparison

[mickve]

Just wanted to start a thread to compare ve 1/4 mile times, mph and rwkw. I would like to know how fast the cam and turbo cars are as this may be my next step.

please dont just put up dyno results as we all know they are bullsh-t unless you have the time to prove it.


I have an ssv 270 rwkw it has otr, maffles tune, 2.5 inch x force exhaust ,3.7 diff gears and a tex clutch best et is 12.38 at 113 mph this was at full weight.

[Boom]

can you post a pic of your otr please?

[ballbreaker]

Just wanted to start a thread to compare ve 1/4 mile times, mph and rwkw. I would like to know how fast the cam and turbo cars are as this may be my next step.

please dont just put up dyno results as we all know they are bullsh-t unless you have the time to prove it.


I have an ssv 270 rwkw it has otr, maffles tune, 2.5 inch x force exhaust ,3.7 diff gears and a tex clutch best et is 12.38 at 113 mph this was at full weight.
sounds sus 2 me.

[CarlFST60L]

2 runs, both similar
~2.0 60ft 12.8 @ 112mph
~1.98 60ft 12.7 @ 111mph
Car weighs 1950kg

Sonny's 'basic' cam package, running everything as factory including tyre's + tyre pressure, + spare tyre, fuel... Very happy with the time considering i have only completed 2 runs...

[markone2]

Does a cammed L98 fit into the picture :confused:..if so , stock up on ale and munchies.....should make for an interesting read next Thursday evening after Willowbanks T&T is over....:burnout:

[vytwo]

sounds sus 2 me.

Someones got to lead the pack...when it comes to VE's its Mick.

Ive seen him race plenty of times, always full weight (less jack & spare only)always fast:smilesandbanana:.

[vxleather]

always full weight (less jack & spare only)always fast:smilesandbanana:.
some one has to say it, So it is not full weight :)


Just wanted to start a thread to compare ve 1/4 mile times, mph and rwkw. I would like to know how fast the cam and turbo cars are as this may be my next step.

please dont just put up dyno results as we all know they are bullsh-t unless you have the time to prove it.


I have an ssv 270 rwkw it has otr, maffles tune, 2.5 inch x force exhaust ,3.7 diff gears and a tex clutch best et is 12.38 at 113 mph this was at full weight.

A time slip attached showing detail would be good!!! Would like to see your 60ft time!!! Street tyres or drag tyres

[vytwo]

[QUOTE=vxleather;1043580]some one has to say it, So it is not full weight :)

Fair enough..how does 12.4xx with the jack & spare in sound...still the fastest bolt on ve in the country. 60 foots 1.8 on the very rubber the good folks at Holden provided :)

[dadem0n]

Does a cammed L98 fit into the picture :confused:..if so , stock up on ale and munchies.....should make for an interesting read next Thursday evening after Willowbanks T&T is over....:burnout:

But when does the engine get fitted to a VE with A6? :nyuk:

[VXS]

Just wanted to start a thread to compare ve 1/4 mile times, mph and rwkw. I would like to know how fast the cam and turbo cars are as this may be my next step.

please dont just put up dyno results as we all know they are bullsh-t unless you have the time to prove it.


I have an ssv 270 rwkw it has otr, maffles tune, 2.5 inch x force exhaust ,3.7 diff gears and a tex clutch best et is 12.38 at 113 mph this was at full weight.

Hey Mick,

What OTR are you using, is it the CSV one?

Would love to see pics if so.

Cheers.

[vxleather]

[quote=vxleather;1043580]some one has to say it, So it is not full weight :)

Fair enough..how does 12.4xx with the jack & spare in sound...still the fastest bolt on ve in the country. 60 foots 1.8 on the very rubber the good folks at Holden provided :)

Gotta be proud of that good effort.

:bow:

[mickve]

Hey Mick,

What OTR are you using, is it the CSV one?

Would love to see pics if so.

Cheers.

No i dont have the csv one i have the russo performance one which i should have photos off soon. The russo otr works even when the bonnet is closed i am sure when we do get pictures up everyone will agree how good russo otr is.I believe we have a real 270 rwk which you can see by our track times not like some others who have great power on a dyno but such a low mph on the 1/4 mile.
Be patient i think in a couple of weeks they should be ready to go.


2 runs, both similar
~2.0 60ft 12.8 @ 112mph
~1.98 60ft 12.7 @ 111mph
Car weighs 1950kg

Sonny's 'basic' cam package, running everything as factory including tyre's + tyre pressure, + spare tyre, fuel... Very happy with the time considering i have only completed 2 runs...

good result i think with your mph and a bit of practice you could do 12.4 to 12.5.:)

[Martin_D]

My missus A6 VE with stock everything and a real measured weight (rather than - its slow so I will put it weighs 2200kg) of 1780kg, ran 13.01 @ 110mph with 241rwkw at Heathcote in April. Nasty 2.1 second 60s and axle tramp let her down :eek:

Now it has closer to 250rwkw (updated to the $2800 12 sec package) and some 275MTs for the back of it. We will see what it runs at the Holden Nationals next weekend, but would expect her to crack a 12.8 or so.....after all it is a '12 second' package :lol:

[EXCESSV]

No i dont have the csv one i have the russo performance one which i should have photos off soon. The russo otr works even when the bonnet is closed i am sure when we do get pictures up everyone will agree how good russo otr is.I believe we have a real 270 rwk which you can see by our track times not like some others who have great power on a dyno but such a low mph on the 1/4 mile.
Be patient i think in a couple of weeks they should be ready to go.next time just put my name there as the one with the CSV DTI that doesnt work and the 275rwkw i have not being proper.

seriously your just like some of the other ppl here...an arrogant a$$hole.
boo fcken hoo i have more power than u running a different OTR than your beloved Russo one and i cant get near your quarter mile times...mine must not be running that power and the OTR must be sh1t. :rolleyes:

hope your epenis is nice and big and feeling well from all the stroking your doing to it :flipoff:

[NickS]

next time just put my name there as the one with the CSV DTI that doesnt work and the 275rwkw i have not being proper.

seriously your just like some of the other ppl here...an arrogant a$$hole.
boo fcken hoo i have more power than u running a different OTR than your beloved Russo one and i cant get near your quarter mile times...mine must not be running that power and the OTR must be sh1t. :rolleyes:

hope your epenis is nice and big and feeling well from all the stroking your doing to it :flipoff:

:confused: ... tell us what you really think Dean !!!

Dyno sheets can be made to say whatever you want, they mean pretty much stuff all to me unless they are simply being used a comparison, same dyno, same day, same setup etc. Time slips don't lie !!!

Mick is not an arrogant asshole (have you ever met him ???) ... and he is getting the results that many others can only dream of. Giving him shit for that just makes you look bad, you can't argue that ATM his car works better than almost any other VE.

:rolleyes:

[Martin_D]

I actually helped a mate out up in the country the other day. He thought his dyno was reading a bit out, so I put her indoors 110mph VE-SSV A6 weapon on the rollers (it makes approx 250rwkw in reality) and got this little doozie!
http://doughy.theddrzone.com/vess305.jpg

[EXCESSV]

:confused: ... tell us what you really think Dean !!!

Dyno sheets can be made to say whatever you want, they mean pretty much stuff all to me unless they are simply being used a comparison, same dyno, same day, same setup etc. Time slips don't lie !!!

Mick is not an arrogant asshole (have you ever met him ???) ... and he is getting the results that many others can only dream of. Giving him shit for that just makes you look bad, you can't argue that ATM his car works better than almost any other VE.

:rolleyes:well when someone comes out and indirectly attacks me, my car, the products i have put on and my tuner then yeah i will say what i think.

never met the guy but from his comment

No i dont have the csv one i have the russo performance one which i should have photos off soon. The russo otr works even when the bonnet is closed i am sure when we do get pictures up everyone will agree how good russo otr is.I believe we have a real 270 rwk which you can see by our track times not like some others who have great power on a dyno but such a low mph on the 1/4 mile.and from another comment in another thread about how whats the point of modding cars if your not after bragging rights on being the fasted etc he does sound arrogant.
he admitted he wants to be the fastest and have bragging rights and thats ok....but dont knock other ppl, other products, etc

[6LtrLimo]

Just out of interest Excessv - what did your car do down the quarter ?

( mph & et )

[EXCESSV]

Just out of interest Excessv - what did your car do down the quarter ?

( mph & et )13.5 @ 105mph
my 5th ever run at the drags...

[LSX-438]

sounds sus 2 me.

I can assure you it is a genuine result.

[WOMBIE]

The russo otr works even when the bonnet is closed

Glad we got that sorted :confused:

[throttlehappy]

oh this is heating up....:eyes:
good old gts pipe :lol:

[6LtrLimo]

13.5 @ 105mph
my 5th ever run at the drags...


Is it just me or is 105mph really low for 270rwkw? Arent stock cars going close to 105mph?

[vxleather]

gotta go bath the kids, then be back with the pop corn and red wine tonight.....

[NickS]

Is it just me or is 105mph really low for 270rwkw? Arent stock cars going close to 105mph?

Ummm ... :yup: ... even if you fluff the launch etc. the mph should still be there. As I said, dyno numbers mean stuff all.

Also ... I have nothing to do with Russo Performance, everyone knows I use Sonny & Marrano's, so I have nothing to gain by making shit up about Mick. As LSX-438 said, I can assure you Mick's pace is genuine and I have seen him run the times.

:eyes:

[Hqcoupe350]

105mph really is low. I ran 105mph in a vy clubby with bolt ons no tune?

[Curtis-R]

Getting the 1800 kilos of VE off the line seems to be my problem as well as others from what I have read throughout the forums and speaking to others... 3.7 gears and a tex would certainly help! 12.38 @113MPH is a bloody good result.

[STATIE]

Here is Phonsey's (GMM) dead stock (except a Ripshift:lol:) VESS M6 .
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i189.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid189.photobucket.com/albums/z89/R8MALOO/07060203.flv"></embed>


Here is the same VESS 1/2 an hour later with only a tune and pod filter.
Still stock exhaust - diff everything.
<embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i189.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid189.photobucket.com/albums/z89/R8MALOO/07060208.flv"></embed>

[mickve]

next time just put my name there as the one with the CSV DTI that doesnt work and the 275rwkw i have not being proper.

seriously your just like some of the other ppl here...an arrogant a$$hole.
boo fcken hoo i have more power than u running a different OTR than your beloved Russo one and i cant get near your quarter mile times...mine must not be running that power and the OTR must be sh1t. :rolleyes:

hope your epenis is nice and big and feeling well from all the stroking your doing to it :flipoff:

Take it easy guys dean like i have said before to you i love what you have done with your car but it pisses me of when i see all these adds on the forum about we picked up 40 , 50 kw by changing an air filter for eg, i know i didnt get gains like that but i still have the fastest ve. Dont get me started on all those pod filters as well which half the guys who bought have sold allready.

dean every thread i have put up you have bitched about like you thought my car should be quicker now with clutch and diff gears sorry 12.3 isnt good enough and when russo performance first put up there otr you said that not everybody is after every tenth then a couple of months later you get csv one.

Anyway your car looks heaps better than mine i think you have great taste in cars just sick off seeing people get ripped off. Mainly with pod filters imo.


Mate im Italian my epenis is always nice and big thanks. :)

Just thinking please dont take the wrong way i think we can agree that your mph is a bit low could it be that on the dyno the csv otr works a treat but when you do close the bonnet it starts to suck some hot air. Thats all ill shut up now sorry to upset you.

Also no offence to your tunner i dont even know who you use i am sure they are doing great for you.


My missus A6 VE with stock everything and a real measured weight (rather than - its slow so I will put it weighs 2200kg) of 1780kg, ran 13.01 @ 110mph with 241rwkw at Heathcote in April. Nasty 2.1 second 60s and axle tramp let her down :eek:

Now it has closer to 250rwkw (updated to the $2800 12 sec package) and some 275MTs for the back of it. We will see what it runs at the Holden Nationals next weekend, but would expect her to crack a 12.8 or so.....after all it is a '12 second' package :lol:

I think i got a 12.8 with 108 to 109 mph on street tyres so i think you should do better than 12.8 with mt and 110 mph if everything works out for you. Good luck next weekend.

[EXCESSV]

Getting the 1800 kilos of VE off the line seems to be my problem as well as others from what I have read throughout the forums and speaking to others... 3.7 gears and a tex would certainly help! 12.38 @113MPH is a bloody good result.very tru curtis 3.7 gears and tex do help with launching and mph at the drags. also someone thats godd at pedalling the car is a big plus.
these heavy VE's are a heavy thing to get up and mumbo.

[mickve]

very tru curtis 3.7 gears and tex do help with launching and mph at the drags. also someone thats godd at pedalling the car is a big plus.
these heavy VE's are a heavy thing to get up and mumbo.

Dean have a look at statie video now that driver would kick my arse.Not sure what 60 ft are but must be good.


sorry i did not intend to upset you just think it could be wise for people to see my otr before buying others but now i think i will mind my own business.
I believe strongly that the otr i have will be much better and i think i get to passionate about it.:)

[EXCESSV]

Dean have a look at statie video now that driver would kick my arse.Not sure what 60 ft are but must be good.


sorry i did not intend to upset you just think it could be wise for people to see my otr before buying others but now i think i will mind my own business.
I believe strongly that the otr i have will be much better and i think i get to passionate about it.:)no worries mate.
its all good and forgotton.
i guess i take things to heart too easy when it comes to my car...its the passion like you said.

[mickve]

no worries mate.
its all good and forgotton.
i guess i take things to heart too easy when it comes to my car...its the passion like you said.

All good i cant have people thinking im an asshole i wont sleep tonight if thats the case. good luck if you are running the car this week hope you kick arse.That was the first :flipoff: i ever got im sure i will get more.:)

[RED R8]

no worries mate.
its all good and forgotton.
i guess i take things to heart too easy when it comes to my car...its the passion like you said.

In all fairness I went from 13.6 to 12.9 with the same Hp just took 15 odd passes to get the hang of it.Deans car has made strong numbers on a dyno that is renowned in Perth for accurate figures but of what ive seen Dean has yet to put down a good pass (I would love to have a go :) ) .

[mickve]

In all fairness I went from 13.6 to 12.9 with the same Hp just took 15 odd passes to get the hang of it.Deans car has made strong numbers on a dyno that is renowned in Perth for accurate figures but of what ive seen Dean has yet to put down a good pass (I would love to have a go :) ) .

SO WOULD I:driving:

[EXCESSV]

In all fairness I went from 13.6 to 12.9 with the same Hp just took 15 odd passes to get the hang of it.Deans car has made strong numbers on a dyno that is renowned in Perth for accurate figures but of what ive seen Dean has yet to put down a good pass (I would love to have a go :) ) .Daz come down this wednesday if it doesnt rain and get the right coloured wrist band to drive and you can have the keys for a run or two :D

All good i cant have people thinking im an asshole i wont sleep tonight if thats the case. good luck if you are running the car this week hope you kick arse.That was the first :flipoff: i ever got im sure i will get more.:)yeah sorry bout that...got a little angry a little quick.

also i just realised i fcuked up something with the DTI :doh:
i left the rubber strip that sits under the bonnet and seals the bonnet to the frame when the bonnets shut therefore DTI not getting air :doh:

and thanks for the well wish...if all goes well this wednesday with weather i will be down there to keep trying and practising and hopefully start pulling off some good times...times that this car should be pulling

[Wonky]

My missus A6 VE with stock everything and a real measured weight (rather than - its slow so I will put it weighs 2200kg) of 1780kg, ran 13.01 @ 110mph with 241rwkw at Heathcote in April. Nasty 2.1 second 60s and axle tramp let her down :eek:

Now it has closer to 250rwkw (updated to the $2800 12 sec package) and some 275MTs for the back of it. We will see what it runs at the Holden Nationals next weekend, but would expect her to crack a 12.8 or so.....after all it is a '12 second' package :lol:
Sorry Tuna, not having a go or anything (given some of the other posts in this thread) but if I'm reading what you said correctly, 241rwkw seems very high for a stock A6. Most stock A6s I have seen run low 200s. :confused:

Given it started at 241 and you said it's now closer to 250, that seems very little gain for $2,800. Or am I reading it wrong? :confused:

[Uncle Tone]

Sorry Tuna, not having a go or anything (given some of the other posts in this thread) but if I'm reading what you said correctly, 241rwkw seems very high for a stock A6. Most stock A6s I have seen run low 200s. :confused:

Given it started at 241 and you said it's now closer to 250, that seems very little gain for $2,800. Or am I reading it wrong? :confused:

CAI and exhaust were on I think Wonky. Car may have had a bit of a tune at that stage too.

[NickS]

That was the first :flipoff: i ever got im sure i will get more.:)

:flipoff: ... there you go Mick, don't want you loosing sleep waiting for it.

:D

[Martin_D]

Given it started at 241 and you said it's now closer to 250, that seems very little gain for $2,800. Or am I reading it wrong? :confused:

Yep you are reading it wrong :)
In 241rwkw form it had cat back, tune, cold air etc. going to 250rwkw was a revision to the exhaust/tune :cool:
Standard the car had something like 210rwkw or so :)


I think i got a 12.8 with 108 to 109 mph on street tyres so i think you should do better than 12.8 with mt and 110 mph if everything works out for you. Good luck next weekend.

Stock stall in the auto will be the problem :)
With the factory 2.92 gears in the rear and a stock stall I dont expect better than a 1.85 60 which will just drop the car into the 12s I reckon....not sure its been a long time between runs :cool:

[Alex(AUS)]

I have thought about this for quite a while ... and I think that the general idea of "the drag strip is the real dyno" isnt entirely accurate ... I know I am going to get shot down for this but just because you make a certain amount of power on a dyno (a real reading) doesnt mean that will translate to a certain MPH at the strip. MPH does have a lot to do with;
- how a car is driven (launch, shifts, shift points etc)
- how it is setup (weight, gears, driveline, tyres, pressures, ride height, suspension etc)
- when/where it is raced (air temp, humidity, BP, altitude, engine oil and coolant temp, intake etc)

I have particularly noticed that with the N/A non-cammed LS(x)s 60" make a big difference in MPH and ET. I have seen the very same cars make up between 4 (114-118) and 5MPH (107-112) simply in the way they were driven (normal and hard). Therefore, the BIG question is; what happens if the driver is unable / unwilling to drive the car hard??? Then, the drag strip dyno is about as accurate as a real dyno ...

In the N/A case, diff gears and torque converters help alot. Which tends to indicate that "the area under the curve" (ie the get up and go) is what aids the MPH. Once the revs are up and you are moving (4500-6500) ... all these cars will make the power ... it is quite easy to tune this region at WOT. It is mostly fuel and timing. I am sure there would be very little difference between the premiere tuners ... making bugger all difference at the track.

Like a dyno, we can only really compare MPH/dyno readings when the cars are setup the same, are raced by the same driver at the same place and with the same conditions!

Alex

[LSX-438]

There is variability in cars for sure.

I think that is what Mick was asking about… listing mods and subsequent track results (in this case) for VE commodores.

As for driver skill.. Over time there will not be much in that, not at the pointy end anyway.

[markone2]

I
I have particularly noticed that with the N/A non-cammed LS(x)s 60" make a big difference in MPH and ET.
Alex

:confused:....tis odd.....while I don't get out and about much at the track.,..............here's one snippit I've picked up on from the beginning ,the 1st 60ft makes or breaks your ET......BUT if you 60ft at 1.5 or 2.2...your trap mph remains constant

[RED R8]

:confused:....tis odd.....while I don't get out and about much at the track.,..............here's one snippit I've picked up on from the beginning ,the 1st 60ft makes or breaks your ET......BUT if you 60ft at 1.5 or 2.2...your trap mph remains constant

Strange yet very true.....:confused:

[VYMaloo]

Strange yet very true.....:confused:

What if you are on and off the throttle in the first 60ft like a normal learner (me ), wouldn't this change things .

[RED R8]

What if you are on and off the throttle in the first 60ft like a normal learner (me ), wouldn't this change things .

Mph will still vary by a very small amount.I have 5x timeslips from one night I went to the strip and ran betwwen 12.9 and 13.4 (a couple of passes spun the tyres got off it then back on it ) yet every pass was the exact Mph I kid you not.

[Wonky]

Yep you are reading it wrong :)
In 241rwkw form it had cat back, tune, cold air etc. going to 250rwkw was a revision to the exhaust/tune :cool:
Standard the car had something like 210rwkw or so :)
OK, thanks Tuna. Just that your original statement was "My missus A6 VE with stock everything ran 13.01 @ 110mph with 241rwkw at Heathcote in April" and wouldn't have classified catback, tune and cold air as being stock???

[Martin_D]

Ya fair point. The whole thing was documented in Street Machine Comms as per the modifications to the car - LS1 Turbo CAI, HM Catback, Tune. The reference to stock then was tyres, converter, weight, fuel etc. My bad :eek:

[Alex(AUS)]

:confused:....tis odd.....while I don't get out and about much at the track.,..............here's one snippit I've picked up on from the beginning ,the 1st 60ft makes or breaks your ET......BUT if you 60ft at 1.5 or 2.2...your trap mph remains constant

Yeah you should learn from us seasoned professionals ok ... eh ... sorry, I think everyone should listen to Markone2 ... he may have been to the track once or twice more than me ... :D

I am just conveying what I have noticed with bolt-on cars ... I am sure you didnt do a 1.5s 60" with a bolt-on ...

Cammed / stalled / geared cars tend to have plenty of torque and generally get out of there pretty quick whether you launch was good or bad. However, I have noticed with stock or bolt-on N/A cars you really need to get out of there quick to make the most of it (the 1.8 from Mick is certainly an awesome effort from a bolt-on street rubber car).

How much does the staging type count for Markone2? What difference in MPH and ET would we notice if the car is shallow vs. deep staged?

Thanks,

Alex

[CarlFST60L]

While we are on the topic of MPH being a universal constant of power, heres what I learnt with me driving my stock M6 E R8 at the last private track day

A. I'm an average drag racer with a grand total of 4 trips to the drags, so that dosnt help anything being 'the same every run'
b. The VE limiter dosnt just cut out like the VY, so its hard to know exactly the right point to shift, the VY was obvious if u hit it.. I think the VE slowly cuts throttle, but will hit the limiter if you break traction or free rev, or just keep holding
c. if u miss third the first time there goes 5mph, slow change it and I drop 2/3mph, it was very important to get 3rd in a quick shift without letting the rev's drop
d. Slip the standard clutch to much wheen launching, it over heats and slips costing 2/3mph. You can feel it's not right as the changes arnt crisp, or it dosnt chirp hard (Thanks to Tex, this isnt a problem anymore!)
e. Blipping the clutch, almost a flat change, add's 3mph for me i.e. the difference from matching rev's to mashing the gear box and chirping 1, 2, 3 = 3mph at the other end

Maybe i need an Auto :lol:

[Alex(AUS)]

While we are on the topic of MPH being a universal constant of power, heres what I learnt with me driving my stock M6 E R8 at the last private track day

A. I'm an average drag racer with a grand total of 4 trips to the drags, so that dosnt help anything being 'the same every run'
b. The VE limiter dosnt just cut out like the VY, so its hard to know exactly the right point to shift, the VY was obvious if u hit it.. I think the VE slowly cuts throttle, but will hit the limiter if you break traction or free rev, or just keep holding
c. if u miss third the first time there goes 5mph, slow change it and I drop 2/3mph, it was very important to get 3rd in a quick shift without letting the rev's drop
d. Slip the standard clutch to much and it over heats and slips and u loose 2/3mph, and you can feel it as the changes arnt crisp so you know its going to happen (Thanks to Tex, this isnt a problem anymore!)
e. Blipping the clutch add's 3mph for me i.e. the difference from matching rev's to mashing the gear box and chirping 1, 2, 3 = 3mph at the other end

Maybe i need an Auto :lol:

I think Carl's car is a perfect example ... he is making heaps of power (300rwkw+ as a result of his cam setup). He has the same diff gears as Mick (who changed them), a strong clutch and wider rubber (245-275). However, Mick is able to get a quicker ET and MPH with a bolt on VE SS ...

Now, just think about it, there is more to it than simply power to the ground. The cam setup would have more power everywhere as compared to a VE SS with bolt ons.

Maybe it is the mafless tune, maybe it is the underdrives, maybe it is the weight ... either way ... we need to know ...

Alex

[CarlFST60L]

I think Carl's car is a perfect example ... he is making heaps of power (300rwkw+ as a result of his cam setup). He has the same diff gears as Mick (who changed them), a strong clutch and wider rubber (245-275). However, Mick is able to get a quicker ET and MPH with a bolt on VE SS ...

Now, just think about it, there is more to it than simply power to the ground. The cam setup would have more power everywhere as compared to a VE SS with bolt ons.

Maybe it is the mafless tune, maybe it is the underdrives, maybe it is the weight ... either way ... we need to know ...

Alex

Helps if you actually go racing :lol:

The offer was made to get the most out of my car, but work is crazy atm leaving no time, maybe in the heat of summer I will free up and have another crack... You have to remember, the only thing thats done to my car is a clutch + cam + exhaust + 800m of drag time, i wouldnt have asked for any more, and i sure love the torque it produces compared to stock, espically low down, and part throttle

[vt350phantom]

While we are on the topic of MPH being a universal constant of power, heres what I learnt with me driving my stock M6 E R8 at the last private track day

A. I'm an average drag racer with a grand total of 4 trips to the drags, so that dosnt help anything being 'the same every run'
b. The VE limiter dosnt just cut out like the VY, so its hard to know exactly the right point to shift, the VY was obvious if u hit it.. I think the VE slowly cuts throttle, but will hit the limiter if you break traction or free rev, or just keep holding
c. if u miss third the first time there goes 5mph, slow change it and I drop 2/3mph, it was very important to get 3rd in a quick shift without letting the rev's drop
d. Slip the standard clutch to much wheen launching, it over heats and slips costing 2/3mph. You can feel it's not right as the changes arnt crisp, or it dosnt chirp hard (Thanks to Tex, this isnt a problem anymore!)
e. Blipping the clutch, almost a flat change, add's 3mph for me i.e. the difference from matching rev's to mashing the gear box and chirping 1, 2, 3 = 3mph at the other end

Maybe i need an Auto :lol:

spot on with the clutch comment, I've been out once (the 40 degree day in Jan this year!) and after 1 run the clutch was rooted. MPH fell steadily on the next three runs. Car felt awful. Wish I could get out again in proper temperatures with the tex and post 112+ MPH!!! one day......

[uterus]

While we are on the topic of MPH being a universal constant of power, heres what I learnt with me driving my stock M6 E R8 at the last private track day

A. I'm an average drag racer with a grand total of 4 trips to the drags, so that dosnt help anything being 'the same every run'
b. The VE limiter dosnt just cut out like the VY, so its hard to know exactly the right point to shift, the VY was obvious if u hit it.. I think the VE slowly cuts throttle, but will hit the limiter if you break traction or free rev, or just keep holding
c. if u miss third the first time there goes 5mph, slow change it and I drop 2/3mph, it was very important to get 3rd in a quick shift without letting the rev's drop
d. Slip the standard clutch to much wheen launching, it over heats and slips costing 2/3mph. You can feel it's not right as the changes arnt crisp, or it dosnt chirp hard (Thanks to Tex, this isnt a problem anymore!)
e. Blipping the clutch, almost a flat change, add's 3mph for me i.e. the difference from matching rev's to mashing the gear box and chirping 1, 2, 3 = 3mph at the other end

Maybe i need an Auto :lol:


What about your 60' time. That alone can make quite a difference.
The 2-3mph difference is still a fair indication of your HP.

Dont forget just because the dyno said 300rwkw doesnt mean it has.
There are many other variables that can make a difference too.

[RED R8]

Helps if you actually go racing :lol:

The offer was made to get the most out of my car, but work is crazy atm leaving no time, maybe in the heat of summer I will free up and have another crack... You have to remember, the only thing thats done to my car is a clutch + cam + exhaust + 800m of drag time, i wouldnt have asked for any more, and i sure love the torque it produces compared to stock, espically low down, and part throttle

Your a prime example of not judging your car by dyno or drag figures but by what it does on the street and how it has been transformed which is the best result of all.:)

[EXCESSV]

the 1.8 from Mick is certainly an awesome effort from a bolt-on street rubber cardont mean to nit pick but mick ran RE55s on that time although he did say they had no improvement on his 60" as he still only managed a 1.8 with street tyres and the RE55s.

Micks car as well as having the usual bolt ons, mafless, OTR, full exhaust.
it also has 3.7 diff gears, tex, 25% UDP...oh and some awesome pedalling he does :bow:

he is the benchmark and will remain the bench mark for "street trim" VE bolts on for a long time.
the 3.7 diff gears would definately add a few mph for sure as it gets up and mumbos earlier
there is no doubt i would like to get as close to his time as i can so maybe diff gears and changing the rear section of my exhaust to a true dual 3" as its a restriction right now will help
i had 3.7 gears in my manual VX R8 and it mumbod better

btw mick if you read this, i am curious as with the 3.7 diff gears when you cross the line are u still in 3rd on the limiter or in fourth?
and if your still in third has your limiter been moved?

[Alex(AUS)]

Helps if you actually go racing :lol:

The offer was made to get the most out of my car, but work is crazy atm leaving no time, maybe in the heat of summer I will free up and have another crack... You have to remember, the only thing thats done to my car is a clutch + cam + exhaust + 800m of drag time, i wouldnt have asked for any more, and i sure love the torque it produces compared to stock, espically low down, and part throttle

Too right ... I am sure the car is great ...

For more evidence of the MPH not being a true indication of power ... take a look at NickS' Coupe4 ... that is stroked and turboed and until only recently (when it set a record) could manage a best of 116mph??? ... Does that mean a bolt on VE makes enough power at the wheels to be only 3mph off a stroked and turboed LS1???

Alex

[RED R8]

dont mean to nit pick but mick ran RE55s on that time although he did say they had no improvement on his 60" as he still only managed a 1.8 with street tyres and the RE55s.

Micks car as well as having the usual bolt ons, mafless, OTR, full exhaust.
it also has 3.7 diff gears, tex, 25% UDP...oh and some awesome pedalling he does :bow:

he is the benchmark and will remain the bench mark for "street trim" VE bolts on for a long time.
the 3.7 diff gears would definately add a few mph for sure as it gets up and mumbos earlier
there is no doubt i would like to get as close to his time as i can so maybe diff gears and changing the rear section of my exhaust to a true dual 3" as its a restriction right now will help
i had 3.7 gears in my manual VX R8 and it mumbod better

btw mick if you read this, i am curious as with the 3.7 diff gears when you cross the line are u still in 3rd on the limiter or in fourth?
and if your still in third has your limiter been moved?

Going from twin 3 all the way to twin 3 with 2.5 rear sectiion (2.5 from the front of the mufflers back) gained me two mph Go figure...

[mickve]

Your a prime example of not judging your car by dyno or drag figures but by what it does on the street and how it has been transformed which is the best result of all.:)

Totally agree as long as you are happy with your car who cares what others think. But i cant stand when im at the runs and people always ask how much rwkw has it got then they tell me what they have yet my times are much better. I remember when i first raced this ve stock there was 3 guys at the track with a vy and vz they are telling me they have 260 to 270 rwkw from a certain forum sponsors dyno but my car was almost exactly the same et as them with similar mph and 60 ft standard my car has approx 220 rwkw and my car is heavier so did these guys get ripped of or what.

anyway i love raceing even if i run 16 sec 1/4 mile ill still try just to better my own time.

[Alex(AUS)]

Totally agree as long as you are happy with your car who cares what others think. But i cant stand when im at the runs and people always ask how much rwkw has it got then they tell me what they have yet my times are much better. I remember when i first raced this ve stock there was 3 guys at the track with a vy and vz they are telling me they have 260 to 270 rwkw from a certain forum sponsors dyno but my car was almost exactly the same et as them with similar mph and 60 ft standard my car has approx 220 rwkw and my car is heavier so did these guys get ripped of or what.

anyway i love raceing even if i run 16 sec 1/4 mile ill still try just to better my own time.

The great thing about your pass Mick is we all want to know where this time comes from ... ie what do we need to do to match it ... it would have been good if you modified the car bit by bit and documented the differences ... do you have a breakdown of how your car improved vs. mods?

Thanks,

Alex

[mickve]

dont mean to nit pick but mick ran RE55s on that time although he did say they had no improvement on his 60" as he still only managed a 1.8 with street tyres and the RE55s.

Micks car as well as having the usual bolt ons, mafless, OTR, full exhaust.
it also has 3.7 diff gears, tex, 25% UDP...oh and some awesome pedalling he does :bow:

he is the benchmark and will remain the bench mark for "street trim" VE bolts on for a long time.
the 3.7 diff gears would definately add a few mph for sure as it gets up and mumbos earlier
there is no doubt i would like to get as close to his time as i can so maybe diff gears and changing the rear section of my exhaust to a true dual 3" as its a restriction right now will help
i had 3.7 gears in my manual VX R8 and it mumbod better

btw mick if you read this, i am curious as with the 3.7 diff gears when you cross the line are u still in 3rd on the limiter or in fourth?
and if your still in third has your limiter been moved?

Are you jokeing in third 4th gear about 5500rpm the diff gears did not change my mph down the 1/4 mile much it might have given me 1/2 mph i think we nead 3.9 gears better. I will give you my secret it is not diff gears and not clutch that gives me my times it was the otr or the tune russo put in car when they are put on the car screams trust me the udp and gears etc all together may give you 0.1 of your 1/4 mile.

Even when the car had only exhaust on it i had to grab 4th gear otherwise it used to cut out just b4 the line.


The great thing about your pass Mick is we all want to know where this time comes from ... ie what do we need to do to match it ... it would have been good if you modified the car bit by bit and documented the differences ... do you have a breakdown of how your car improved vs. mods?

Thanks,

Alex

i have a thread on here somewhere with all the info either from me or from russo performance. There should also be some info on russo website.

Also remember guys i have my standard diff gears for sale if someone has an auto and wants to upgrade.

[Alex(AUS)]

Are you jokeing in third 4th gear about 5500rpm the diff gears did not change my mph down the 1/4 mile much it might have given me 1/2 mph i think we nead 3.9 gears better. I will give you my secret it is not diff gears and not clutch that gives me my times it was the otr or the tune russo put in car when they are put on the car screams trust me the udp and gears etc all together may give you 0.1 of your 1/4 mile.

Even when the car had only exhaust on it i had to grab 4th gear otherwise it used to cut out just b4 the line.



i have a thread on here somewhere with all the info either from me or from russo performance. There should also be some info on russo website.

Also remember guys i have my standard diff gears for sale if someone has an auto and wants to upgrade.

The tune wouldnt make much difference ... I am sure Chipmaster would be (at the very least) very close to the best you can get out of the car at WOT ... you have dismissed the UDP (which BTW Formula Tech said made a big ET difference) ... you have also dimissed the diff gears (if you have done the mph without ithem then fair enough) ... so that leaves the intake ... now this intake sounds like the business (even though I doubt it will make a big MPH difference). The best way to prove its worth would be to put it on a standard car with and without a tune (mafed and mafless) and run it down the strip ... if it makes a significant difference I will buy one ...

Why not do something similar to GMM ... perform the following runs on the same night;
- stock car
- intake with the maf in place (no tune)
- intake with the maf and tune
- intake with mafless tune

BTW ... GMM only gained 2.5MPH from intake and tune.

Alex

[NickS]

Too right ... I am sure the car is great ...

For more evidence of the MPH not being a true indication of power ... take a look at NickS' Coupe4 ... that is stroked and turboed and until only recently (when it set a record) could manage a best of 116mph??? ... Does that mean a bolt on VE makes enough power at the wheels to be only 3mph off a stroked and turboed LS1???

Alex

Current best is 120.9 mph ... and don't forget that I'm carrying between 300 - 500 more kgs than most.

MPH clearly isn't going to determine power exactly as there are many other factors that affect it, but people have run crap times with great MPH, that shows that they are making the power, they just aren't making efficient use of it. A dyno graph with a big number doesn't show much.

[LSX-438]

The tune wouldnt make much difference ...

Alex you might be surprised with the tune thing, especially with the VE Commodore situation. The point being, major tuning software vendors only just released (or will any day now) the E38 mafless solutions, but up until now we had to make do with our own solution. Many people told us it couldn't be done (the E38 SD ting) or was a waste of time!.. just watch in a few months everyone will be doing it. So, at least in the early stages, the tune/tuner can make a difference. Coupled with good research on the hardware side (especially OTR and exhaust in this case) and a good driver.

[Alex(AUS)]

The tune wouldnt make much difference ...

Alex you might be surprised with the tune thing, especially with the VE Commodore situation. The point being, major tuning software vendors only just released (or will any day now) the E38 mafless solutions, but up until now we had to make do with our own solution. Many people told us it couldn't be done (the E38 SD ting) or was a waste of time!.. just watch in a few months everyone will be doing it. So, at least in the early stages, the tune/tuner can make a difference. Coupled with good research on the hardware side (especially OTR and exhaust in this case) and a good driver.

The EfiLive software has had SD tuning for while now ... it has a virtual VE map similar to that of LS1 (with multi bar setups). This has allowed most using this software to achieve mafless tunes ... However, you are right in that the software is still evolving and will produce better and better results in the coming months as people really get a true handle of it ... I am waiting for the A6 software ... I believe that will cause quite a stir ...

Alex

[LSX-438]

How long has it been available / used by the general tuning population though? Perhaps a few weeks, if that. Basically stuff all really. HPTuners have just relased their SD tuning in the last few days..

So.... now you can buy E38 SD tuning in a box, let the games begin hey?

[Alex(AUS)]

How long has it been available / used by the general tuning population though? Perhaps a few weeks, if that. Basically stuff all really. HPTuners have just relased their SD tuning in the last few days..

So.... now you can buy E38 SD tuning in a box, let the games begin hey?

Oh yeah, the more the merrier ... hope this spices things up a bit ...

Efilive hasnt been available to the general populartion for long (if at all). But I am sure most tuners have been playing around with version 7.5 for more than 2 weeks now ... the big quesiton is when is the A6 software coming?

Alex

[jaykay]

and don't forget that I'm carrying between 300 - 500 more kgs than most.
Fark Nick you need to go on a diet then mate..... :rofl:







joke Nick.....:)

[NickS]

Fark Nick you need to go on a diet then mate..... :rofl:







joke Nick.....:)

Bloody oath ... it's getting harder and harder to squeeze into the bloody car !!!

:D

[Delco]

Oh yeah, the more the merrier ... hope this spices things up a bit ...

Efilive hasnt been available to the general populartion for long (if at all). But I am sure most tuners have been playing around with version 7.5 for more than 2 weeks now ... the big quesiton is when is the A6 software coming?

Alex

Speed density on the E38's we have been playing with for 6-8 months now , A6 control has and is out there as well for EFILIVE

[Alex(AUS)]

Speed density on the E38's we have been playing with for 6-8 months now , A6 control has and is out there as well for EFILIVE

How extensive is the A6 control? Is it limited to shift points and firmness or you are able to control the box fully? Can you control the torque converter?

Alex

[markone2]

How extensive is the A6 control? Is it limited to shift points and firmness or you are able to control the box fully? Can you control the torque converter?

Alex

I'm interested in this also.....actually its the sole reason I don't own a VE ( yet )...and have gone for the L98 mafless tuned with the trusty Craigs enhanced A4 in an older model....whilst I await for some good news regarding the A6 :)

[mickve]

The tune wouldnt make much difference ... I am sure Chipmaster would be (at the very least) very close to the best you can get out of the car at WOT ... you have dismissed the UDP (which BTW Formula Tech said made a big ET difference) ... you have also dimissed the diff gears (if you have done the mph without ithem then fair enough) ... so that leaves the intake ... now this intake sounds like the business (even though I doubt it will make a big MPH difference). The best way to prove its worth would be to put it on a standard car with and without a tune (mafed and mafless) and run it down the strip ... if it makes a significant difference I will buy one ...

Why not do something similar to GMM ... perform the following runs on the same night;
- stock car
- intake with the maf in place (no tune)
- intake with the maf and tune
- intake with mafless tune

BTW ... GMM only gained 2.5MPH from intake and tune.

Alex

best mph without diff gears was high 112 mph and with them best mph is low 113 mph it will do something but it isnt going to drop much time off your et this could also be just better driving or something else.. when my time droped from 12.5 to 12.3 that was all in the 60 ft.I think i am just getting used to launching of the line which is much easier with a tex clutch that doesnt slip like crazy.

From memory without otr and mafless tune i was 3 to 4 mph slower so it has to be that.

Has anyone else got there times with so many ve on this forum i thought we would have got a lot more numbers of people.what about forced induction anyone.

[lautray]

Why not do something similar to GMM ... perform the following runs on the same night;
- stock car
- intake with the maf in place (no tune)
- intake with the maf and tune
- intake with mafless tune
Wishful thinking at wsid on a Wednesday night. They're cramming us in like cattle. Need a private day for "back-to-back" tests like that, for consistency.

[SweetLS2]

Speed density on the E38's we have been playing with for 6-8 months now , A6 control has and is out there as well for EFILIVE
Nice of you to make an appearance on this thread, Dan !:)
You've been a little conspicuous by your absence whilst your excellent customer Dean was copping a caneing over his claimed rwkw versus mph numbers. Care to comment ? All over Oz tonight, we are all ears.... !!

JX

[EXCESSV]

Nice of you to make an appearance on this thread, Dan !:)
You've been a little conspicuous by your absence whilst your excellent customer Dean was copping a caneing over his claimed rwkw versus mph numbers. Care to comment ? All over Oz tonight, we are all ears.... !!

JXdan has no obligation to defend or comment on my situation
i am just a customer...i go to him for advice and work and he does what i ask to the best of his ability and i hand over my hard earned cash for his services
that is all i ask...i dont need anyone to defend me.

just because ppl on this site are too caught up on being the quickest there seems to be a move if your not doing XXs @xxxmph then the car and driver is crap.
i can throw the keys to any good pedaller and get an awesome time but thats not fun...i want to do it

some ppl wont change.
as for me i couldnt care less if i do 105mph or 125mph
i am out there having fun with my car and enjoying ever second of it.
i have not regretted any mod or any $$$ i have spent on my car so in the end i am happy with my car and thats all that matters.
still puts a massive grin on my face everytime i look at it, drive it etc
what a bunch of big talking keyboard warriors think i couldnt care less.

i will still be out there having fun and racing against myself.
i am out at drags, at the track, autotest, sprint days, etc having a ball with my car and mates
only 5 runs ever at the drags with 3 of the 5 launching completely wrong...it wasnt until i launched properly that times came down...now i will work on that as well as i forget to take off the rubber strip that seals the bonnet and blocks the air intake into the DTI :doh:
its now off and not going back on as it blocks the air to the DTI!
simple error but hey you live you learn

[OUTAtheBloo]

I know whats its like to cop crap about my driving Dean.

I was doing 103mph with 225kw, 109mph with 275, and 112mph, same hp with a throttle body change, and mt radials. (and no doubt, driving a little harder). Will be interesting how much more you can get out of it this season, as i presume your gunna keep going back.

Dan

[RED R8]

Nice of you to make an appearance on this thread, Dan !:)
You've been a little conspicuous by your absence whilst your excellent customer Dean was copping a caneing over his claimed rwkw versus mph numbers. Care to comment ? All over Oz tonight, we are all ears.... !!

JX
Dan tuned and installed my cam and It could not drive any better 117 mph out of a medium size cam puts it up there with alot of bigger cams and damn close to some FI cars so nothing wrong with what Dan does.:bow:

What sort of figures have you run at the track ?

[EXCESSV]

I know whats its like to cop crap about my driving Dean.

I was doing 103mph with 225kw, 109mph with 275, and 112mph, same hp with a throttle body change, and mt radials. (and no doubt, driving a little harder). Will be interesting how much more you can get out of it this season, as i presume your gunna keep going back.

Danyeah gonna keep going back...having a ball with it all dan

i dont think i will go as far as going down the MT ETS etc as that also means better clutch, punishing the car etc which is not what i want to do but never say never :up2sum: :lol:
i will leave the record times to those that can afford it and know how to pedal a car right

it was your advice Dan and also Rob from House of Power that helped me drop my times by alot and getting the launches right...if i could just drop nearly 1s in one run from changing the way i launch then as i practice the times will drop too.
once again thanks mate for your advice :bow:

[OUTAtheBloo]

My best ever mph was on street tyres, my best et was on the drag radials, helped to stop the wheelspin into second. Track conditions help alot too.

When you stop enjoying it, thats when you know you have had enough...

Dan

(sorry back ontopic)

[RED R8]

yeah gonna keep going back...having a ball with it all dan

i dont think i will go as far as going down the MT ETS etc as that also means better clutch, punishing the car etc which is not what i want to do but never say never :up2sum: :lol:
i will leave the record times to those that can afford it and know how to pedal a car right

it was your advice Dan and also Rob from House of Power that helped me drop my times by alot and getting the launches right...if i could just drop nearly 1s in one run from changing the way i launch then as i practice the times will drop too.
once again thanks mate for your advice :bow:

Keep doing it for the enjoyment Dean and nothing else, your penis will not grow any longer if you impress the keyboard warriors with better times.:confused:

[EXCESSV]

Keep doing it for the enjoyment Dean and nothing else, your penis will not grow any longer if you impress the keyboard warriors with better times.:confused::lmao: gold daz gold

better put this back on topic before the big boys come and have a whinge again...sorry fellas:1peek:

[SweetLS2]

as well as i forget to take off the rubber strip that seals the bonnet and blocks the air intake into the DTI :doh:
its now off and not going back on as it blocks the air to the DTI!
simple error but hey you live you learn

Goodonya, Dean ! Like I said before, you tell it like it is regardless of what others might think. We need more people like you on this Forum. We all can't learn and improve our rides without honesty and trust. I can only imagine that is why so many of us have been following this thread with such interest. We all wanna believe our dyno sheets implicitly, but we all also know that trap speed doesn't lie.
I really hope I can make it to the Cruise so I get to meet you and some of the other guys on here - and to droole over your cars !
Best regards,

JX


Dan tuned and installed my cam and It could not drive any better 117 mph out of a medium size cam puts it up there with alot of bigger cams and damn close to some FI cars so nothing wrong with what Dan does.:bow:

What sort of figures have you run at the track ?

G'day, Daz - nice to meet you at last. If I was you, I would be very happy with Dan's handiwork on your car also. Your 117mph puts you slap bang in the 285 - 295 rwkw region, so all is as it should be for you. (See Time Slips section above).
I (and quite a few others around Oz, apparently !) just wanna see Dean achieve the mph he deserves to be getting for the investment he's made. He's taken the trouble to keep us all fully informed of all his mods so far which I really appreciate, and now he's taken his baby to the long black dyno, I for one, want a happy ending for him !

G'nite all.

JX

[Alex(AUS)]

dan has no obligation to defend or comment on my situation
i am just a customer...i go to him for advice and work and he does what i ask to the best of his ability and i hand over my hard earned cash for his services
that is all i ask...i dont need anyone to defend me.

just because ppl on this site are too caught up on being the quickest there seems to be a move if your not doing XXs @xxxmph then the car and driver is crap.
i can throw the keys to any good pedaller and get an awesome time but thats not fun...i want to do it

some ppl wont change.
as for me i couldnt care less if i do 105mph or 125mph
i am out there having fun with my car and enjoying ever second of it.
i have not regretted any mod or any $$$ i have spent on my car so in the end i am happy with my car and thats all that matters.
still puts a massive grin on my face everytime i look at it, drive it etc
what a bunch of big talking keyboard warriors think i couldnt care less.

i will still be out there having fun and racing against myself.
i am out at drags, at the track, autotest, sprint days, etc having a ball with my car and mates
only 5 runs ever at the drags with 3 of the 5 launching completely wrong...it wasnt until i launched properly that times came down...now i will work on that as well as i forget to take off the rubber strip that seals the bonnet and blocks the air intake into the DTI :doh:
its now off and not going back on as it blocks the air to the DTI!
simple error but hey you live you learn

I think everyone needs to get over the whole rwkw vs. mph thing ... Dean has said he is not chasing a record and really isnt there to extract every last tenth out of his car ... in other words he is out there doing it his way ... and he is entirely entitled to do that ... his car ... his mods ... his cash ... (he is not doing what you want ... he is doing what he wants).

You want to talk about everyday experience with VE SSV mods from an average Joe (ie non drag racer) ... talk to Dean ... you want to talk about VE SS records and the best out of the bolt-on VE ... talk to Mick ... simple.

Alex

[LSX-438]

I think everyone needs to get over the whole rwkw vs. mph thing ... Dean has said he is not chasing a record and really isnt there to extract every last tenth out of his car ... in other words he is out there doing it his way ... and he is entirely entitled to do that ... his car ... his mods ... his cash ... (he is not doing what you want ... he is doing what he wants).

You want to talk about everyday experience with VE SSV mods from an average Joe (ie non drag racer) ... talk to Dean ... you want to talk about VE SS records and the best out of the bolt-on VE ... talk to Mick ... simple.

Alex

Come on guys, read the thread subject. Mick started this SPECIFICALLY about mods and 1/4 mile results. If you aren't INTERESTED in 1/4 mile results then why bother contributing negative sentiment to this thread? Why bother contributing at all? Why even read this thread? It just looks like you have another agenda when you come in here with "who cares about track results", ffs.. read the thread title. It's about track results isn't it? As for "keyboard warriors" as someone put it above.. those are the people that stir it up where they apparently don't even have an interest. Why bother?

Some people ARE interested in 1/4 mile results and that's fair enough isn't it? If you aren't, fair enough too. Have the good grace and manners to keep it to yourself and move on to something you have a real interest in.

[Martin_D]

I really dont think Micks result (other than the ET which is a function of some sweet driving) is that 'out there'. We touched 110mph on stock converter/gears (2.92:1) in a loaded SSV with 240rwkw, so there is no reason to consider that 113mph from 270rwkw is made from unobtanium! :)
Both these cars Micks and my missus shopping basket SSV get their results from planned modifications though - 12 second package for us, Russo upgrade system for Mick - rather than a bunch of haphazard bits thrown together on a whim :teach:

[SweetLS2]

Well said, Tuna - and that is exactly the point of this thread. Here we have two guys who have spent their money and done basically the same bolt-on mods to their VEs. Both claim around 270rwkw - we've all seen Dean's dyno sheets, but only one is achieving the trap speed commensurate with that claim. I'm here becoz I wanna know why ! THAT is my (only) agenda !!:1peek:

JX

[RED R8]

Well said, Tuna - and that is exactly the point of this thread. Here we have two guys who have spent their money and done basically the same bolt-on mods to their VEs. Both claim around 270rwkw - we've all seen Dean's dyno sheets, but only one is achieving the trap speed commensurate with that claim. I'm here becoz I wanna know why ! THAT is my (only) agenda !!:1peek:

JX

Im sure you will see more out of the car..I could't find your timeslips to mull over ??

[SweetLS2]

Let's hope so, Daz !

[CarlFST60L]

Another factor that maybe worth discussing is unsprung weight, the R8 has 19" x 9.5" rear 8.5" x 19" front running 275 rear 245 front rubber, ~375mm front ~370 rear brakes. I hear that 1Kg of sprung is like 5Kg of unsprung... I would think there is maybe 40Kg of brakes and wheels over running ET streets on a light set of rims with stock VY brakes, so 40kg of rolling weight = 200kg of tar weight... Then the R8 weighs 1950Kg full including driver... that makes 2150kg of race weight... These weights are just approximations from lifting up a wheel and brake rotor and realising how dam heavy they are :lol:

The reason I say this is I have heard some people (that are running the numbers that people like to see) say they had good gains in MPH and ET from running ET streets on cheap ass light rims... MPH gains, but no power gains..

[RED R8]

Let's hope so, Daz !

You seem to be the one most concerned about Deans times I think Dean is more that happy with what his car does.

[Alex(AUS)]

Come on guys, read the thread subject. Mick started this SPECIFICALLY about mods and 1/4 mile results. If you aren't INTERESTED in 1/4 mile results then why bother contributing negative sentiment to this thread? Why bother contributing at all? Why even read this thread? It just looks like you have another agenda when you come in here with "who cares about track results", ffs.. read the thread title. It's about track results isn't it? As for "keyboard warriors" as someone put it above.. those are the people that stir it up where they apparently don't even have an interest. Why bother?

Some people ARE interested in 1/4 mile results and that's fair enough isn't it? If you aren't, fair enough too. Have the good grace and manners to keep it to yourself and move on to something you have a real interest in.

Exactly my point ... Dean does not want to be involved (but everyone kept bringing it up on this thread .. why?) ... focus on Mick who is out there to push the limits ...

Alex


Another factor that maybe worth discussing is unsprung weight, the R8 has 19" x 9.5" rear 8.5" x 19" front running 275 rear 245 front rubber, ~375mm front ~370 rear brakes. I hear that 1Kg of sprung is like 5Kg of unsprung... I would think there is maybe 40Kg of brakes and wheels over running ET streets on a light set of rims with stock VY brakes, so 40kg of rolling weight = 200kg of tar weight... Then the R8 weighs 1950Kg full including driver... that makes 2150kg of race weight... These weights are just approximations from lifting up a wheel and brake rotor and realising how dam heavy they are :lol:

The reason I say this is I have heard some people (that are running the numbers that people like to see) say they had good gains in MPH and ET from running ET streets on cheap ass light rims... MPH gains, but no power gains..


Tuna through Sonny claimed 111mph in a VE R8 edit only (everything else stock ... infact from memory I even think it had a full tank of fuel) ... what does this mean? I know your car is making the power ... so perhaps you arent getting the best out of it and 266rwkw is enough to get 111mph ... ie 300 has much more in it (ie mph) if driven differently ... ie rwkw does not always = mph.

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=75325&highlight=ve+r8+111

Alex

[dadem0n]

Exactly my point ... Dean does not want to be involved (but everyone kept bringing it up on this thread .. why?) ... focus on Mick who is out there to push the limits ...


If you start threads making HUGE claims about how much power your car makes and how with your car "there is low 12s on street tyres easy"
(Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=84006))
.... then you are opening yourself up to direct attacks when you end up running mid 13s like a stocker! :teach:

Just the way it is :rolleyes:

[CarlFST60L]

Tuna through Sonny claimed 111mph in a VE R8 edit only (everything else stock ... infact from memory I even think it had a full tank of fuel) ...

Sonny was saying something about one of his non cammed cars running a better ET and same maybe even higher MPH, all without a cam and much less power :lol: Shame on me

[Alex(AUS)]

Sonny was saying something about one of his non cammed cars running a better ET and same maybe even higher MPH, all without a cam and much less power :lol: Shame on me

So rwkw does not always equal mph? There are many other factors (one of which is the driver ehm CARL). :D

Alex

[Martin_D]

Tuna through Sonny claimed 111mph in a VE R8 edit only (everything else stock ... infact from memory I even think it had a full tank of fuel) ... what does this mean? I know your car is making the power ... so perhaps you arent getting the best out of it and 266rwkw is enough to get 111mph ... ie 300 has much more in it (ie mph) if driven differently ... ie rwkw does not always = mph.
Alex

The VE R8 in question was totally factory, with 3/4 tank of fuel plus our VE CAI and our 12 second tune I put in it on the dyno that day in Perth. It was a manual with stock clutch, had full stock HSV exhaust, stock VE R8 wheels/tyres, and went on to run 12.9 @ 111mph while I stood there and watched :cool:

[CarlFST60L]

So rwkw does not always equal mph? There are many other factors (one of which is the driver ehm CARL). :D

Alex

I think im going to cry in the corner :bawl:

:lol:

[RED R8]

The VE R8 in question was totally factory, with 3/4 tank of fuel plus our VE CAI and our 12 second tune I put in it on the dyno that day in Perth. It was a manual with stock clutch, had full stock HSV exhaust, stock VE R8 wheels/tyres, and went on to run 12.9 @ 111mph while I stood there and watched :cool:

Is that VE WPN Tuna ?

[Martin_D]

Not sure Daz.....it was just a stock WA plated thing at the time
I do know now that it has a couple of power adders....that is all :cool:

[RED R8]

111mph aint too shabby.

[EXCESSV]

If you start threads making HUGE claims about how much power your car makes and how with your car "there is low 12s on street tyres easy"
(http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=84006)
.... then you are opening yourself up to direct attacks when you end up running mid 13s like a stocker! :teach:

Just the way it is :rolleyes:maybe you should read it properly before you start putting me down

if i can pull 2.0 60" with the power i have through the areas of the rev range and if i can get it all together there is low 12s on street tyres easy i keep getting told...

just me the driver that needs the work as the car has more than enough capabilities for such a pass.
see the bits about IF and I KEEP GETTING TOLD...i aint making any HUGE claims as you say...i am just saying what others have said to me!
so dont roll your eyes and put forward the whole facts...something you ST crew dont do and pick on me.....leave me the FCUK ALONE

i dont know you guys and never met you guys or said anything negative towards u guys yet you guys keep coming out and attacking me...dont u guys have anything better to do

[Martin_D]

...something you ST crew dont do and pick on me.....leave me the FCUK ALONE

I can assure you Dademon is no part of any 'ST crew' thats for sure!
If you reap what you have been sowing, do not blame me - this is your easy way out to take solace from your choices which may or may not have been ill-conceived, and I take no offence from it. This is the cross that dyno warriors have to bear on this forum, and it comes from all angles. Trust me I have been there on every side of it. However consider this - I couldnt care less about your childish attitude, your car, your mods etc, hence my posts are directed at Mick who is out there doing something, raising the bar, not carrying on like a twat, and I reckon thats cool :teach:

Anyway If you have a problem with Dademon, the Willowbank Warriors are thatta way (points north-east) - and they have allegiance to no one but the time card....however we have put their name to the test on occassion :lol:

[LSX-438]

Well anyway, I believe Russo are lining up in the staging lanes at WSID right now, with a new VE GTS, including Russo H/C package. They started tuning it around 3:30pm today i believe! (using the new HPTuners E38 SD-enahnced operating system). Running stocker tyres though, and i am not sure of the intake.. should be interesting to see the results.

[Martin_D]

Well anyway, I believe Russo are lining up in the staging lanes at WSID right now, with a new VE GTS, including Russo H/C package. They started tuning it around 3:30pm today i believe! (using the new HPTuners E38 SD-enahnced operating system). Running stocker tyres though, and i am not sure of the intake.. should be interesting to see the results.

Now thats what we want to see! :cool:
Not constant back slapping and rubbish about, well.....nothing :eek:

[UTE FORCE]

dademOn is certainly not one of the ST crew..he is like the Arkadians in 300...
more brawler,than warrior,he makes a wonderous mess of things...brave amateur...he plays his part

[Martin_D]

Yes indeed Ute Force, the trick to drag racing on this forum is not to make the mistake of the Persian God King Xerxes, who attempts to use his divine power rather than pure force to get the job done against the brave 300, warriors all -
http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/Xerxes.jpg
However he suffers a fatal and very human flaw, like e-racers - being HUBRIS (def)
Excessive pride displayed by a character, at times taking the form of a boastful challenge to the gods or other higher powers--often resulting in harsh punishment

[RED R8]

Try and remmember Tuna some of us (large majority) are just regular folk with limited track time if any we dont have workshops or the time and experience you ,russo etc have to make cars quick we go to the track to enjoy ourselves and to take it off the street yes we get excited and sometimes think we are going to run great times but realise when we get there its alot harder to get a car from point A to point B fast. You love jumping on anyones cars tuned by Dan because you don't like him , thats fair you both are competitors and have history but at the end of the day many of the mega horsepower cars Dan and yourself tune don't see the track or some do and run great times but don't need to gloat all over the internet.I see no need to ridicule people who get tunes elsewhere if their cars haven't YET performed at the track instead give useful advise.

[markone2]

Anyway If you have a problem with Dademon, the Willowbank Warriors are thatta way (points north-east) - and they have allegiance to no one but the time card....however we have put their name to the test on occassion :lol:

:dance::dance::dance::dance:.........:cheers:..... ................:diddy:

http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/markone2/SV8%2010.765.jpg

[dadem0n]

I can assure you Dademon is no part of any 'ST crew' thats for sure!

Oh come on Tuna, you know I love ya :love2:

[VESSWA]

Yes indeed Ute Force, the trick to drag racing on this forum is not to make the mistake of the Persian God King Xerxes, who attempts to use his divine power rather than pure force to get the job done against the brave 300, warriors all -
http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/Xerxes.jpg
However he suffers a fatal and very human flaw, like e-racers - being HUBRIS (def)
Excessive pride displayed by a character, at times taking the form of a boastful challenge to the gods or other higher powers--often resulting in harsh punishment


Now there's a REAL drag queen right there! Straight of the mardi gras float no less!!


Sorry, was that off topic??:confused:

[Martin_D]

You love jumping on anyones cars tuned by Dan because you don't like him , thats fair you both are competitors and have history but at the end of the day many of the mega horsepower cars Dan and yourself tune don't see the track or some do and run great times but don't need to gloat all over the internet.I see no need to ridicule people who get tunes elsewhere if their cars haven't YET performed at the track instead give useful advise.

Ok, the HUBRIS as defined above comes out....I couldnt care less about EXCESSV and his track times, who tuned it, mods etc. Good on him :lol: Any comment I have made on VE 1/4 refers to Mick, if any of the QLD crew upset your mate, then take it up with them. SURELY thats not real hard to understand? :cool:

[Alex(AUS)]

Yes indeed Ute Force, the trick to drag racing on this forum is not to make the mistake of the Persian God King Xerxes, who attempts to use his divine power rather than pure force to get the job done against the brave 300, warriors all -
http://blogs.nypost.com/movies/Xerxes.jpg
However he suffers a fatal and very human flaw, like e-racers - being HUBRIS (def)
Excessive pride displayed by a character, at times taking the form of a boastful challenge to the gods or other higher powers--often resulting in harsh punishment

OH NO!!! ST IS QUOTING MOVIES AGAIN .... THERE GOES THIS THREAD ...

Alex

[dadem0n]

Excessv, You can find us here...


http://www.anbg.gov.au/images/maps/aust-qld.gif


:lol:

[jaykay]

If nothing else this thread brings tears of laughter to me.... :rofl:

[Martin_D]

:dance::dance::dance::dance:.........:cheers:..... ................:diddy:
http://www.haroc.1337thing.com/ls1/markone2/SV8%2010.765.jpg

Very nice Markone2....but as you can see, I brought more soldiers than you did ;)
http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/GarethSS/gareth102.jpg

[Alex(AUS)]

Very nice Markone2....but as you can see, I brought more soldiers than you did ;)
http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/GarethSS/gareth102.jpg

Oh, here we go ...

Alex

[Belzey]

Lol they just look like receipts to me. Looks like you have been shopping :D:jester:

[RED R8]

10.28 thats getting closer to Dans 10.22 "close but no cigar":diddy:

[Martin_D]

Try and remmember Tuna some of us (large majority) are just regular folk with limited track time if any we dont have workshops or the time and experience you ,russo etc have to make cars quick we go to the track to enjoy ourselves and to take it off the street

Back on topic....
Daz I am talking about my wifes stock VE SSV A6 + our $2800 12 second package to clock 110mph on factory tyres....with her driving for the very first time at the track. She did that on her second ever pass with a full tank of Bendigo sourced BP Ultimate. Hope thats not too much of a shop racer for you :lol:

[RED R8]

Back on topic....
Daz I am talking about my wifes stock VE SSV A6 + our $2800 12 second package to clock 110mph on factory tyres....with her driving for the very first time at the track. She did that on her second ever pass. Hope thats not too much of a shop racer for you :lol:

And I will be the first to admit its a shit hot time...and I have no doubt your kids are never late for school.

Riddle me this then Tuna-man why would a car that does make good hp its made it a couple of different dynos struggle to make Mph at the track (impart us with your wisdom) not pictures of you at the last mardie-gra...(joke)

[Martin_D]

Riddle me this then Tuna-man why would a car that does make good hp its made it a couple of different dynos struggle to make Mph at the track (impart us with your wisdom) not pictures of you at the last mardie grar...(joke)

Glad that picture captured your imagination :cool:
As for the car I have no idea, I havent seen it, looked over it, tuned it, and sadly, at the moment the batteries in my crystal ball are flat :eek:
Surely there would be a simple answer, however its not my question :teach:

[markone2]

Very nice Markone2....but as you can see, I brought more soldiers than you did ;)
http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/GarethSS/gareth102.jpg


Don't look much like a Willowbank slip to me :confused:.........perhaps we slipped up a tad in a previous post ;)


10.28 thats getting closer to Dans 10.22 "close but no cigar":diddy:

Cigars are on the way.....very very soon ..cam only :diddy:

[Martin_D]

Don't look much like a Willowbank slip to me :confused:.........perhaps we slipped up a tad in a previous post ;)

You may well have :cool:

[markone2]

You may well have :cool:

Nope......not on the 12th of August did your TT conquer...but full points for a sterling effort :)

*the Willowbank Warriors are thatta way (points north-east) - and they have allegiance to no one but the time card....however we have put their name to the test on occassion *

[Martin_D]

Nope......not on the 12th of August did your TT conquer...but full points for a sterling effort :)

*the Willowbank Warriors are thatta way (points north-east) - and they have allegiance to no one but the time card....however we have put their name to the test on occassion *

I remember when we scared you off coming to Heathcote...wise picking on your part too. Now, lets see this VE of yours get down the strip, everyones anxious, and it seems like you have high hopes for it. Sounds good :cool:

[markone2]

I remember when we scared you off coming to Heathcote...wise picking on your part too. Now, lets see this VE of yours get down the strip, everyones anxious, and it seems like you have high hopes for it. Sounds good :cool:

Thanx ST :) , but might be a long wait....its a VE donk powered by a custom Comp , in a trusty VU ute backed by an even more trusty Craigs A4 and yes..hopes are high :driving:...but as we all know , the track can be a hard mistress when putting claim to any numbers imho :bawl:

[Martin_D]

Thats a bit of a cop out mate, putting the most powerful version of the engine in the lightest body. The VE thing is much more of a challenge for you I would think :cool:

[markone2]

Thats a bit of a cop out mate, putting the most powerful version of the engine in the lightest body. The VE thing is much more of a challenge for you I would think :cool:

Not till the A6 hardware and software gets properly worked out I’m afraid. but rest assured I'll happily lay down a full second handicap for the 100Kg difference. :yup:.....you did say your VE came in at 1740Kg :confused:....VU ute comes in at 1640Kg plus throw on another 20 for hardcover that stays....yep..a full second should suffice as an adequate weight penalty in anyone language imho

[SweetLS2]

Glad that picture captured your imagination :cool:
As for the car I have no idea, I havent seen it, looked over it, tuned it, and sadly, at the moment the batteries in my crystal ball are flat :eek:
Surely there would be a simple answer, however its not my question :teach:

Ah-haaa !! And.....I'm still waiting for the gent concerned to exercise his God-given right of reply.
Daz - you have been missing the point of all this discussion entirely. It's not Dean we all want to hear from !

[RED R8]

Ah-haaa !! And.....I'm still waiting for the gent concerned to exercise his God-given right of reply.
Daz - you have been missing the point of all this discussion entirely. It's not Dean we all want to hear from !

So why were you so concirned with Deans car and what it runs and how can it be made faster ? Still can't find your timeslip..


we've all seen Dean's dyno sheets, but only one is achieving the trap speed commensurate with that claim. I'm here becoz I wanna know why ! THAT is my (only) agenda !!:1peek:

JX

Sorry whos missing the point ...:confused:

[SweetLS2]

Good - you're back, Daz !

Do I have to spell this out for you ? OK, I've had a couple of ales, so I'll get honest with you. (I would have thought Mick, ST and the others had made it plain enough) Can you really get 20-odd extra rwkW from a OTRCAI (ANY kind !) and a mafless tune ? A lot of us didn't think so. What does that result say about the efficacy of the original maf tune ?

As for my time slips (which you seem to be fixated on !), read the title of this thread. My car is an old-fashioned VZ Clubby (see the info at the top right corner of each of my posts), so it has an old LS2 with small heads and restrictive inlet manifold in it. Which, of course, has nothing to do with this thread (VEs and 1/4 mile times).

Happy now ?

[RED R8]

Good - you're back, Daz !

Do I have to spell this out for you ? OK, I've had a couple of ales, so I'll get honest with you. (I would have thought Mick, ST and the others had made it plain enough) Can you really get 20-odd extra rwkW from a OTRCAI (ANY kind !) and a mafless tune ? A lot of us didn't think so. What does that result say about the efficacy of the original maf tune ?

As for my time slips (which you seem to be fixated on !), read the title of this thread. My car is an old-fashioned VZ Clubby (see the info at the top right corner of each of my posts), so it has an old LS2 with small heads and restrictive inlet manifold in it. Which, of course, has nothing to do with this thread (VEs and 1/4 mile times).

Happy now ?

Its that you talk like such a pro and I thought it was all your drag racing experience that you were drawing conclusions from (obviously not).The difference is I listen to what M12 and tuna have to say because they have experience and results and guys like M12 will help you find solutions.What is your experience with OTR's ? and you will find the 20kw was gained was from DIA AND switching from Maf to Mafless tune (20kw very gainable) but hey you with your plethra of wisdom already knew that.

[vxleather]

I can assure you Dademon is no part of any 'ST crew' thats for sure!

Anyway If you have a problem with Dademon, the Willowbank Warriors are thatta way (points north-east) - and they have allegiance to no one but the time card....however we have put their name to the test on occassion :lol:


Hmmm..... I seemed to remeber a guy under the alias of Dademon purchased a ticket to be part of the world wide ST crew, for some reason saw the light and on sold one's ticket to garanted speed to a certain gent up north.:1peek:

[SweetLS2]

Its that you talk like such a pro

Thanks, mate. I didn't realize it showed !

and I thought it was all your drag racing experience that you were drawing conclusions from

I never said that....

The difference is I listen to what M12 and tuna have to say because they have experience and results and guys like M12 will help you find solutions.

Agreed - like I said before, some of us are here to learn.

What is your experience with OTR's ?

Ummmmm - you can't use a maf with one, so you are forced to go mafless ?

and you will find the 20kw was gained was from DIA AND switching from Maf to Mafless tune (20kw very gainable)

And you are basing this opinion on your extensive experience with OTRs and mafless tuning ?

but hey you with your plethra of wisdom already knew that.

Cheeky...!!!

[RED R8]

Right thread back on topic...where were we ?

[SweetLS2]

Exactly. Where are we ? Is whoop-assing happening tonite ? And is Dean there ?

[EXCESSV]

Exactly. Where are we ? Is whoop-assing happening tonite ? And is Dean there ?no. got cancelled due to unpredictable weather...so i am at home

[RED R8]

no. got cancelled due to unpredictable weather...so i am at home

At least your ar$e is of the couch giving it a go...:)

[dadem0n]

Hmmm..... I seemed to remeber a guy under the alias of Dademon purchased a ticket to be part of the world wide ST crew, for some reason saw the light and on sold one's ticket to garanted speed to a certain gent up north.:1peek:

Yep, I've given ST $7K once already :lol:

[EXCESSV]

At least your ar$e is of the couch giving it a go...:)its good fun...and addictive
and i didnt buy a V8 and mod it to cruise along the hwys...i bought it to have some fun...

competing in sprint series next year :yahoo:

anyway...back on topic otherwise it will be pick on excessv again

[Alex(AUS)]

Well anyway, I believe Russo are lining up in the staging lanes at WSID right now, with a new VE GTS, including Russo H/C package. They started tuning it around 3:30pm today i believe! (using the new HPTuners E38 SD-enahnced operating system). Running stocker tyres though, and i am not sure of the intake.. should be interesting to see the results.

How did this go? Do you have the dyno chart?

Thanks,

Alex

[LSX-438]

How did this go? Do you have the dyno chart?

Thanks,

Alex

I stuffed up, it was CAM-ONLY not H/C. Russo only just got their hands on the new HPTuners E38 software on wednesday, chris thought he would give it a go, an hour before going to the track... It all worked great, and it pulled a rather impressive dyno figure (let's just say well north of 300rwkw) however the tune is far from finished, and we didn't have access to the new Russo VE OTR (it's in final stages of production). I believe Justin constructed a last minute OTR out of some cheap plastic in 5 minutes, but it didnt really work (was collapsing in on itself under load). So Wednesday night was a fizzer unfortunately. We'll post up dyno numbers when they can be backed up by a track result, as soon as possible. Hopefully next wednesday night.

[Martin_D]

Ok, the missus ran her car tonight at Heathcote -
Stock car (VE SSV A6) + 12 second package + MT radials = 12.84 @ 110mph :cool:

[klink]

Ok, the missus ran her car tonight at Heathcote -
Stock car (VE SSV A6) + 12 second package + MT radials = 12.84 @ 110mph :cool:

Congrates to her.

If and when i get to the track i would be happy with numbers like that as a starting point.

Now with practice im sure the times will fall.

[VXS]

Ok, the missus ran her car tonight at Heathcote -
Stock car (VE SSV A6) + 12 second package + MT radials = 12.84 @ 110mph :cool:

Hi Martin,

Thats a magnificant result - congrats.:woohoo:

As you know i have the package and i cant wait to get to a track!

[VX SS]

Ok, the missus ran her car tonight at Heathcote -
Stock car (VE SSV A6) + 12 second package + MT radials = 12.84 @ 110mph :cool:


Glad to see you let your better half drive,shes darn site better looking than you.

Markone2 Congrates on the 10 but the fact its a VE motor means nothing, it will mean something when you race the whole car , the setup on the earlier cars is well sorted now making it happen on the VE will be hugely different.

I should know been there done that in a manual stock suspended stock diff VE

[HSVJPL]

Ok, the missus ran her car tonight at Heathcote -
Stock car (VE SSV A6) + 12 second package + MT radials = 12.84 @ 110mph :cool:

Awesome result Tuna,

What size rims and radials did you use on the VE?

[Vulture]

I hear that 1Kg of sprung is like 5Kg of unsprung... I would think there is maybe 40Kg of brakes and wheels over running ET streets on a light set of rims with stock VY brakes, so 40kg of rolling weight = 200kg of tar weight.

Don't quote me on this but I don't think that is in reference to quarter mile times but more to handling performance. In other words, you can't add you unsprung weigth x 5 to your car weight to get a total weight for the quarter.


Very nice Markone2....but as you can see, I brought more soldiers than you did ;)
http://www.oz8.org/gallery/albums/GarethSS/gareth102.jpg

That time is for an NA 346 eh? :stick:

[vxleather]

Glad to see you let your better half drive,shes darn site better looking than you.

Markone2 Congrates on the 10 but the fact its a VE motor means nothing, it will mean something when you race the whole car , the setup on the earlier cars is well sorted now making it happen on the VE will be hugely different.

I should know been there done that in a manual stock suspended stock diff VE



So you shove a turbo on the VE so your time slip means nothing either!!!!!

[VX SS]

So you shove a turbo on the VE so your time slip means nothing either!!!!!
Well isnt that the point I can whack my L98 turbo in my VX SS and run a better time than what my VE did as I stated there has been more development work done on the old platform they aint hard to setup any longer.

The trick is do it on a VE platform now thats what it should be about

[mickve]

I droped the car off at russo performance today the otr are ready to go so we should have photos in next couple of days and hopefully a new pb on wed or friday as now i have mt tyres.:)

[Alex(AUS)]

Hi Martin,

Thats a magnificant result - congrats.:woohoo:

As you know i have the package and i cant wait to get to a track!

When are you planing to go out ... it would be good to see if it gets close to tunas time ...

Alex


I droped the car off at russo performance today the otr are ready to go so we should have photos in next couple of days and hopefully a new pb on wed or friday as now i have mt tyres.:)

Mick if you go any faster it will stir things up quite a bit ... I went to the track a few times in the last month and VE cam setups cant get even remotely close to the ET and MPH you have already ... forget about anything bolt-on ... you will have some explaining to do ...

Alex

[mickve]

Its all in the driving :)
and a little in the tune and otr hey chris.:slap:

After photos are put up i think you guys may see why i have an advantage with the russo otr system.

[LSX-438]

Mick if you go any faster it will stir things up quite a bit ... I went to the track a few times in the last month and VE cam setups cant get even remotely close to the ET and MPH you have already ... forget about anything bolt-on ... you will have some explaining to do ...
Alex

LUCY YOU GOT SOME 'SPLAININ TO DO!

The only explanation is the custom Russo L98 tune, Alex.

Edit: oops and the great meat-pie driver!

[Alex(AUS)]

LUCY YOU GOT SOME 'SPLAININ TO DO!

The only explanation is the custom Russo L98 tune, Alex.

Edit: oops and the great meat-pie driver!

I am all for it maite ... can you run it with a maf or need mafless (ie custom tune also)?

I think you need to explain it to a fair few that cannot do it with a cam ... I would understand bolt-on there may be a little here and there in the setup (ie gears, tyres, intake, pulleys, launch etc) ... but what about the cam setups pushing 300rwkw+???

Alex

[LSX-438]

I am all for it maite ... can you run it with a maf or need mafless (ie custom tune also)?

I think you need to explain it to a fair few that cannot do it with a cam ... I would understand bolt-on there may be a little here and there in the setup (ie gears, tyres, intake, pulleys, launch etc) ... but what about the cam setups pushing 300rwkw+???

Alex

We've only run the OTR MAFLESS, wich was the whole point of the OTR really.

Micks been to WSID a few times, with hundreds of other people present, so i dunno how many people we have to prove it too further.

we can't speak for others not running the times, obviously

[Alex(AUS)]

We've only run the OTR MAFLESS, wich was the whole point of the OTR really.

Micks been to WSID a few times, with hundreds of other people present, so i dunno how many people we have to prove it too further.

we can't speak for others not running the times, obviously

Ok, looking forward to the pictures ...

Alex

[Martin_D]

Micks been to WSID a few times, with hundreds of other people present, so i dunno how many people we have to prove it too further.

Poor old Alex thinks the whole VE drag racing thing is from the Twilight Zone :lol: :lol: :eek:

[STATIE]

He might be right.

300RWKW cars don't run 13's or 12's no excuses, even on street tyres.

They should run 11's at least and 10's should be possible.

Maybe they should be called 300VERWKW cars.

[Martin_D]

Who has a VE with 300rwkw running 13s and 12s? :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek:

[Curtis-R]

Well Alex was present at Calder park last Friday night and he would have seen for himself how hard it is to crack this sub 13 time in the VE's. So many variables seem to come into play.. especially track conditions. Friday night they had fresh coatings on the track which made it super sticky. It's frustrating trying to get these 1800kilo monsters offf the line. Best runs were 13.6 in mine with bolt on's and 13.4 with a cammed VE..(both manual with OTR's) both with ESP on & both in street trim. I'd say the only way to crack this time would be with MT Radials as per Tuna's time?? Any other suggestions ? ;)

[Alex(AUS)]

He might be right.

300RWKW cars don't run 13's or 12's no excuses, even on street tyres.

They should run 11's at least and 10's should be possible.

Maybe they should be called 300VERWKW cars.

LOL ... I like it ...


Who has a VE with 300rwkw running 13s and 12s? :lol: :lol: :lol: :eek:

I know of at least 3 in the low 13s with cam ... but I wont name them.

Alex

[Martin_D]

I'd say the only way to crack this time would be with MT Radials as per Tuna's time?? Any other suggestions ? ;)

Doubt it. My missus car with stock road tyres at full weight with less power than it had with the 12.9 still managed a 13.0 @ 110mph......at Heathcote too, which has less friendly atmo air (altitude) than Calder.

The story would be in your mph. Regardless of the ET, with a VE (from what we have seen so far) 250rwkw will net you 110 - 111mph, 270rwkw 112 - 113mph, 300rwkw 116 - 118mph. Work on those figures as an indicator of your actual grunt :)

[mickve]

He might be right.

300RWKW cars don't run 13's or 12's no excuses, even on street tyres.

They should run 11's at least and 10's should be possible.

Maybe they should be called 300VERWKW cars.


I agree with the 11's but a 10 i dont think so. I guess it comes down to not just peak power but power through the whole rev range possibly and again could be happy dyno's to.

[Alex(AUS)]

Well Alex was present at Calder park last Friday night and he would have seen for himself how hard it is to crack this sub 13 time in the VE's. So many variables seem to come into play.. especially track conditions. Friday night they had fresh coatings on the track which made it super sticky. It's frustrating trying to get these 1800kilo monsters offf the line. Best runs were 13.6 in mine with bolt on's and 13.4 with a cammed VE..(both manual with OTR's) both with ESP on & both in street trim. I'd say the only way to crack this time would be with MT Radials as per Tuna's time?? Any other suggestions ? ;)

Hi Curtis,

Nice to meet you on Friday ... the thing that we have been talking about for a VERY long time now is the MPH ... slicks will improve the time but possibly shave 1 or so mile too ... now with Mick has 113mph with 270odd rwkw which noone else can replicate and that is a credit to Russo ... I just wish we could all do it ...

Street_Tuna, dont worry maite I know about the whole drag racing thing (I have been there once or twice). On Friday, I was there with a friend who had a basic VX SS package (Stall, gears, exhaust, cam, head) who produced 11.5@119 ... unfortunately he did the same without the headwork (cam-only, stock intake manifold, stock t/b) ... yesterday, it put down 272rwkw with the converter locked ... so I know what what is possible with the LS1 crew ... we just cant do it with the VE ... I look forward to the results from one of your 12 second packages at calder ...

Alex

[Martin_D]

... so I know what what is possible with the LS1 crew ... we just cant do it with the VE ... I look forward to the results from one of your 12 second packages at calder ...
Alex

As we have shown by weighing the cars....they arent really any heavier....and the engines...they are better. The real difference is in the PCMs and the tuning, and as Russo and ourselves are showing, this is making a BIG difference to how these cars perform :cool:

[Funky_Munky]

After reading all 12 pages of this, I am somewhat confused.

So is it true that many VEs that are running 300rwkw are not even getting into the 12's? If this is the case, then is the claim of 300rwkw a false one or is it more likely that the varying factors on drag racing had a part to play in slowing the car down?

[Martin_D]

A VE that cant run a 12 certainly doesnt have 300rwkw.... :teach:
As far as driver skill is concerned, let me give you an example how my partner Susan drives hers into the 12s (granted manuals are a little harder)
1) Sport Shift On
2) ESP Off
3) Select D
4) When light goes green hold foot flat.....

REMEMBER these cars are running like 13.5 from the factory......around the same as a VT-VZ well driven (or faster). Adding a cam should have almost EXACTLY the same result. In short 13 second VEs have near stock power..... :eek:

Our 30rwkw from the $2800 12 SECOND Pack knocks around 1/2 a second off the cars ET, which is what that sort of power gain should do :)

[T_Kiwi]

nothing to do with kw, its about the tourque, my car on 270rwkw will thrash a car running 300rwkw

[Martin_D]

Too true Kiwi....but you would expect an aftermarket cam equipped VE to easily outrun a 'bolt on' version. The cars we are discussing here dont have the wonderful gift of boost that yours does :cool:
You were there to see our 12 second bolt on VE in action as well. Both your kids got a ride in the passenger seat and (hopefully) loved every minute of it :)

[RED R8]

nothing to do with kw, its about the tourque, my car on 270rwkw will thrash a car running 300rwkw

Do you mean thrash in drivability or on the Quarter ? just curious T/K:)

[STATIE]

I agree with the 11's but a 10 i dont think so.

You are right - bit of an exaggeration maybe - mid to low 11 isn't though.


Best runs were 13.6 in mine with bolt on's and 13.4 with a cammed VE..(both manual with OTR's) both with ESP on & both in street trim. I'd say the only way to crack this time would be with MT Radials as per Tuna's time?? Any other suggestions ? ;)

Did you wheel spin?
What 60 footers?
What MPH?

[T_Kiwi]

what do you mean drivability? on the street 270rwkw is drivabiltiy, 400rwkw which i can easily wind it up to is pathetic on the street :lmao:

yes Martin they loved the VE mate, trying to convince me to get one a do it up like the VX LOL. In theory a cam upgrade should kick a standard cams butt. But im not by any means an expert, i just take it to the track and let the car do the talking:)

[EXCESSV]

Well Alex was present at Calder park last Friday night and he would have seen for himself how hard it is to crack this sub 13 time in the VE's. So many variables seem to come into play.. especially track conditions. Friday night they had fresh coatings on the track which made it super sticky. It's frustrating trying to get these 1800kilo monsters offf the line. Best runs were 13.6 in mine with bolt on's and 13.4 with a cammed VE..(both manual with OTR's) both with ESP on & both in street trim. I'd say the only way to crack this time would be with MT Radials as per Tuna's time?? Any other suggestions ? ;)it does seem as MTs are the only way to crack into the 12s on a VE.

at the end of the day the drags is all about the setup of the car not entirely up to the power the car has.

axle tramp is the biggest killer on the VE both on the driveline and at the track

[T_Kiwi]

it does seem as MTs are the only way to crack into the 12s on a VE.

at the end of the day the drags is all about the setup of the car not entirely up to the power the car has.

axle tramp is the biggest killer on the VE both on the driveline and at the track


Thats very true, take GarrethhSS car and my car for example, similar numbers from the dyno and yet my car much slower than his

[Funky_Munky]

A VE that cant run a 12 certainly doesnt have 300rwkw.... :teach:
As far as driver skill is concerned, let me give you an example how my partner Susan drives hers into the 12s (granted manuals are a little harder)
1) Sport Shift On
2) ESP Off
3) Select D
4) When light goes green hold foot flat.....

REMEMBER these cars are running like 13.5 from the factory......around the same as a VT-VZ well driven (or faster). Adding a cam should have almost EXACTLY the same result. In short 13 second VEs have near stock power..... :eek:

Our 30rwkw from the $2800 12 SECOND Pack knocks around 1/2 a second off the cars ET, which is what that sort of power gain should do :)

Is that with or without slicks? I ask because they are known to reduce quarter miles time by exacly how much you stipulated your $2800 package does. Im not saying it to stir sh*t, but Im just trying to ascertain wether having all these mods done to a VE is worthwhile since the gains seem to be on paper only.

Just for the record, I know that quarter mile times are not the be all and end all of driving. I myself have never taken my car down to the drag strip. In saying that though, we have to face facts that when we spend money on mods to increase power, ideally we would like our cars to go faster. The best way to test power is to see how long the car takes to get from one point to another over a pre-determined distance (quarter mile drag strip). Its all well and good if a dyno reads out 300rwkw, but what does it matter if the car in question is running low 13's.

So I guess what Im trying to say, without pissing anyone off (and please be aware this comment is not directed to anyone in particular), is that a lot of the times the claimed power outputs on the VEs are not entirely accurate or it could be that there are other external factors that are slowing these cars down by over a second.

[EXCESSV]

Thats very true, take GarrethhSS car and my car for example, similar numbers from the dyno and yet my car much slower than histhats what some of us have been trying to get at but keep being shut down by others saying that the RWKW and mph dont match therefore dyno bluffing, etc...

set any car up right and the times will be as deserved.
for some ppl that go to have some fun and literally drive it the way they drive it everyday to work and just pull out the spare its not ideal.
the tune is done to suit road everyday conditions, the suspension is some lowered spring, the tyres are street tyres with some pressure dropped, etc etc

throw on some MT, tune suited for drags, stock suspension or better suited to drags etc and times will improve greatly....especially for the VE being so heavy and axle tramp affecting the launches

now i wont quote his name as i dont remember the exacts of it and he can say it if he wishes but someone with a low 2s 60" compared the a mid 1s 60" was something along 14mph difference at the 60" mark.
now obviously the 14mph doesnt carry an extra 14mph at the end of the track but the simple fact is its faster there so gets more time to get a higher mph

[Martin_D]

Look everyone has their own opinion, and good to them, if they are happy with their cars even better. All I know is what we have seen and measured on the dyno and on the track :)

[LSX-438]

it does seem as MTs are the only way to crack into the 12s on a VE.

Not really.

Mick was running 12.8's on factory tyres/diff/clutch from memory

And a Russo MAF tune

[Funky_Munky]

Look everyone has their own opinion, and good to them, if they are happy with their cars even better. All I know is what we have seen and measured on the dyno and on the track :)

Mate, no need to get defensive (Im not sure if that was the tone, but thats how I interpret it). I was just asking if:

1. If your car was running slicks when you pulled off the 12.XX and

2. If spending a large-ish amount of money is actually viable for the VE, ie are there any tangible increases in power apart from the figures printed on a dyno sheet.

There is no need to answer if you dont wish as I was just asking out of curiosity. I guess Ill have a definitive answer if more people with VE's put their times down.

Just for the record, Im not one of those 'anti turbo' or 'anti ST' guys, who seem to contest any and every claim you make, as some members on this forum appear to be. Conversley, I have an incredible amount of respect for your knowledge on cars and for having the intelligence and business sense to develop a turbo kit for LSX cars. I know I could never manage that in a 100 years.

[Martin_D]

Mate, no need to get defensive (Im not sure if that was the tone, but thats how I interpret it). I was just asking if:

Hey thanks for the kind words and there is no defensive attitude here at all :)
All I can say is this -
240rwkw - 13.0 @ 110 - factory tyres
250rwkw - 12.9 @ 108/109 - MT Radials

With a stock stall the VE still launches through the A6 at 1500rpm regardless of the rubber, so it is quite possible to calculate - as sometimes happens - that the MT tyres slowed us down a little. However.....being it was the car I drove to the track, and its only job was to run a 12, I pulled the pin when the goal was achieved. Knowing when to quit is half the skill :cool:

[SweetLS2]

Afternoon, fellas. Check out the "Timeslips" section on this forum. Lots of good real-world data there for a rough guide to actual rwkw versus trap speed...
Are E38 PCMs really that hard to tune ?!? :confused:

John JX

[RED R8]

Afternoon, fellas. Check out the "Timeslips" section on this forum. Lots of good real-world data there for a rough guide to actual rwkw versus trap speed...
Are E38 PCMs really that hard to tune ?!? :confused:

John JX


I find the timeslip database the exact opposite..lots of cars running great ET with lower Mph but good 60' some cars running bad 60' with big Mph and average ET so it does show there is more to a quick ET than just Hp I think the 60' is be all and end all BUT Mph is still also a good indicator of Hp.

[Alex(AUS)]

Mate, no need to get defensive (Im not sure if that was the tone, but thats how I interpret it). I was just asking if:

1. If your car was running slicks when you pulled off the 12.XX and

2. If spending a large-ish amount of money is actually viable for the VE, ie are there any tangible increases in power apart from the figures printed on a dyno sheet.

There is no need to answer if you dont wish as I was just asking out of curiosity. I guess Ill have a definitive answer if more people with VE's put their times down.

Just for the record, Im not one of those 'anti turbo' or 'anti ST' guys, who seem to contest any and every claim you make, as some members on this forum appear to be. Conversley, I have an incredible amount of respect for your knowledge on cars and for having the intelligence and business sense to develop a turbo kit for LSX cars. I know I could never manage that in a 100 years.

He did say he ran 13.0@110 in his wifes VE SS auto on the stock rubber ... he has also said that a VE R8 manual he tuned ran 12.9@111 tune only (everything else standard) ... I am looking forward to someone backing this up ... (not in any way saying it cant be done ... I just want to see it done again)

Alex

[Martin_D]

I am sure over the next couple of months there will be many getting these times and by Christmas everyone here will consider it 'normal'. Mark my words....... :teach:
Have seen this same phenomena before with (wait for it) VT, VX, VY, VZ....and now VE :lol: :lol: :)

[Alex(AUS)]

I am sure over the next couple of months there will be many getting these times and by Christmas everyone here will consider it 'normal'. Mark my words....... :teach:
Have seen this same phenomena before with (wait for it) VT, VX, VY, VZ....and now VE :lol: :lol: :)

Lets hope so ...

Alex

[The_Senator]

My stock standard SSV - well except for the Tuna CAI - ran a best time of 13.6 @ 103MPH and 2.2 60". That was with a dyno reading of 293HP.. This is with Sunroof and DVD (not that they add that much weight)

It would seem that i *should* be able to go lower with some of the times / power being quoted.. But, as with everyone else, launching with higher revs gives spin and the dreaded axle tramp.. Or worse, a "non returning" clutch..

I am pretty happy with what a 13.6 (actually ecstatic would be more descriptive) I don't think i could wring much more out of it to be honest...And that was done on my 5th EVER pass at the 1/4...

At the end of the day people have to be HAPPY with what they have done.. I think some people set unrealistic goals. My aim was 13.9 - so i have more than achieved.. Sure i could go and get a tune, exhaust, OTR, Mafless - but would it make me more happy? Probabaly not as my expectations would increase, and thus my chances of not achieving.

Anyway, as someone has said, these numbers will start to tumble - and fast - in the next few months as more and more people get thier heads around WHAT is needed and go and do it..

[Titanium]

Check the 12 second package does 12 second thread Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=85643)

250 RWKW = 12.9465 seconds @ 106.99 mph - this is a flat 13 secs @ 107 mph in anybodys book. With MT radials

Not 12.9 @ 108/109

240 RWKW = 13.xxxx seconds @110 mph - street tires! Is this out of the box? stock RWKW for a A6 VE SS? Not sure cannot tell.

If it is 240 RWKW stock (312 FWKW) for an A6 then that is one very happy car! as the rest of the known universe are getting 205 rwkw - 220 rwkw in an A6 VE SS.

Chuck the same tyres on the 240 RWKW set up and see what it runs.

Looks to be the MT radials giving the gain not the $2800 package.

Have you timeslip of your 240 RWKW stocker with M/T radials? would that not be a better comparo?

240 RWKW (Stock?) + MT Radials
250 RWKW ($2800 package) + MT Radials

I am confused .....:confused:

[Martin_D]

Titanium all you need to do to be un-confused is read the thread....
The car was never run stock...it was run with stock tyres :eek:
The best mph it ran on the MT radials was 108.9X
Its all there, no smoke and mirrors mate :cool:
If memory serves me right the car made 210rwkw or so stock :)

[EXCESSV]

Titanium all you need to do to be un-confused is read the thread....
The car was never run stock...it was run with stock tyres :eek:
The best mph it ran on the MT radials was 108.9X
Its all there, no smoke and mirrors mate :cool:
If memory serves me right the car made 210rwkw or so stock :)dont take this as a stab but if someone buys your $2800 12s package then they need MT Radials to run into the 12s...on stock rubber as a daily driver the 12s package really is a 13s package??? :confused:

because ppl are gonna buy the package based on the fact they can bolt on and go down to the drags..throw out the spare and run a 12.XX

[Martin_D]

been done on factory tyres in WA :)
M6 R8 :cool:
so 12s it is :diddy:

[Titanium]

dont take this as a stab but if someone buys your $2800 12s package then they need MT Radials to run into the 12s...on stock rubber as a daily driver the 12s package really is a 13s package??? :confused:

because ppl are gonna buy the package based on the fact they can bolt on and go down to the drags..throw out the spare and run a 12.XX


That is my point << agreing with you

It is not a 12 second package, but at 12.9465 seconds, lets say a flat 13 seconds with the inclusion of the extra added cost of MT radials and rims on top of your $2800.

What does the $2800 package run with OEM rims and tires? have you a time slip?

That is the correct comparison.

Thanks for clearing up the stock RWKW at 210. Less confused now.:)

[UTE FORCE]

dont take this as a stab but if someone buys your $2800 12s package then they need MT Radials to run into the 12s...on stock rubber as a daily driver the 12s package really is a 13s package??? :confused:

because ppl are gonna buy the package based on the fact they can bolt on and go down to the drags..throw out the spare and run a 12.XX

Every person i have ever seen running stock street radials at the drags is simply wasting track time..sorry but only a newbie would think differently,next you guys will be saying that a 10 second package should be able to do a 10 on street tyres

[EXCESSV]

........................................

[Martin_D]

They both ran the same time though 12.9 go figure :cool:

[Titanium]

been done on factory tyres in WA :)
M6 R8 :cool:
so 12s it is :diddy:

C'mon Tuna, that is a stretch! To many other differences!

1. HSV
2. 307 FWKW- to start with
3. Manual
4. Different dif gears.
5. Different width rubber - 275 wide.
6. Different compound rubber
7.
8.
.
.
.


No comparison to a VE SS A6!

[EXCESSV]

Every person i have ever seen running stock street radials at the drags is simply wasting track time..sorry but only a newbie would think differently,next you guys will be saying that a 10 second package should be able to do a 10 on street tyresi understand that but it should be stated that its a 12s $2800 package on MT radials.
the whole advertisement is that you hand ST or one of his associated workshops $2800 and you can go with the finished product to the drags and do a 12.XXs pass with no extra expense

so if i have a stock SSV...hand over $2800 for the package...run it at the plex and do a 13.0 do i get my money back as its not whats its advertised at? or will then the excuse come that its the setup or the car or i am a shit driver?

a VE R8 with a MWS blower ran a 11.9 the other night on street rubber...

[Martin_D]

The VE SS A6 is a great little package for sure, just needs to be able to stall a bit and go under a 1.97 60 foot to run deep into the 12s. Thats all :cool:

[Curtis-R]

Every person i have ever seen running stock street radials at the drags is simply wasting track time..sorry but only a newbie would think differently,next you guys will be saying that a 10 second package should be able to do a 10 on street tyres


Ermm so me turning up to have some fun at the drags on street tyres is wasting track time? :confused: Newbie?? Can't agree with you on that sorry.

I'm interested in getting the best time I can with the car in street trim, that's where half the fun is.. (for me personally)


It would seem that i *should* be able to go lower with some of the times / power being quoted.. But, as with everyone else, launching with higher revs gives spin and the dreaded axle tramp.. Or worse, a "non returning" clutch..


This is my limiting factor in going any better in the VE.. I know I have the power to lay down a better time and MPH, but then like with all these things it means aftermarket clutch, diff suspension setup (i.e unlower the car) etc etc. I'm really happy with a 13.6 @107.7 given the bolt on mods done. All it really means is I have to spend more $$ to help get this better time.. i.e ripshift, clutch rear shocks/springs etc.. no doubt this will happen though after the influences of the forum :)

Tuna, Any of your 12 second packages actually run under 13 seconds in a manual.. (no ripshift, or aftermarket clutch)? Just curious..

[Martin_D]

Tuna, Any of your 12 second packages actually run under 13 seconds in a manual.. (no ripshift, or aftermarket clutch)? Just curious..

Yes
VE R8
Stock clutch, shifter, wheels, tyres, 3/4 tank fuel.....12.9 @ 111mph :cool:

[Alex(AUS)]

a VE R8 with a MWS blower ran a 11.9 the other night on street rubber...

That sounds nice!!! What was the MPH Dean?

Alex

[Titanium]

Yes
VE R8
Stock clutch, shifter, wheels, tyres, 3/4 tank fuel.....12.9 @ 111mph :cool:

OK lets take the pi$$ some more. Any VE SS or VE SSV 6 speed manual run under 13 seconds with your $2800 12 second package as advertised.

stop dodging the question ........:)

[Curtis-R]

Yes
VE R8
Stock clutch, shifter, wheels, tyres, 3/4 tank fuel.....12.9 @ 111mph :cool:

Top Effort that is..

[Martin_D]

OK lets take the pi$$ some more.

You really should be concentrating on your car not on 'taking the piss'. This is where internet forums can get counterproductive. Our two test cars have been a VE SS A6 and a VE R8 M6 = 2 x 12s with our $2800 pack :cool:

[Titanium]

You really should be concentrating on your car not on 'taking the piss'. This is where internet forums can get counterproductive. Our two test cars have been a VE SS A6 and a VE R8 M6 = 2 x 12s with our $2800 pack :cool:

I am. Thinking of ripping all the stuff of my car and putting in one of your $2800 12 second packages.

Then selling all the goodies and buying a VL turbo

It is a 6 speed manual VE SSV. So my question is valid as a prospective customer. :)

Will I need the added expense of ST radials to achieve the sub 13 second mark?

My referance to taking the pi$$ was suggesting YOU were!

[6LtrLimo]

so if i have a stock SSV...hand over $2800 for the package...run it at the plex and do a 13.0 do i get my money back as its not whats its advertised at?

That would be a fair improvement on what you've run to date wouldnt it?

[Martin_D]

I am. Thinking of ripping all the stuff of my car and putting in one of your $2800 12 second packages.

Ok lets work through this...what times are you running currently with 300rwkw? :confused:

[Alex(AUS)]

Just to spice up the conversation a little ... Street Tuna also offers "VE 12 Second Tunes". Not a bad price ...

Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=76121)

Alex

[Martin_D]

Same tune as goes with the package fellas..... :bow:

[Titanium]

Ok lets work through this...what times are you running currently with 300rwkw? :confused:

They suck .... because I drive like crap, wheel spin or bog off the line ... but hey that is me and my car ......but I have fun for my $40 entry.

That is why I want one of your 12 second packages, but I want to have it as I would drive it every day (as I do now) with OEM rims and tires.

So lets work through it ..... please answer my question.

I am. Thinking of ripping all the stuff of my car and putting in one of your $2800 12 second packages.

Then selling all the goodies and buying a VL turbo

It is a 6 speed manual VE SSV. So my question is valid as a prospective customer.

Will I need the added expense of ST radials to achieve the sub 13 second mark?


cheers

[Martin_D]

Will I need the added expense of ST radials to achieve the sub 13 second mark?
cheers

As shown with the manual R8.....no, stockies are fine :)
So dont dodge the issue here and try to look net savvy - MAYBE I CAN ACTUALLY HELP YOU (I make cars go quick for a living) - what are you running - 60ft, 660ft (mph), ET and mph?
In every time slip there is a story to tell :cool:

[Titanium]

As shown with the manual R8.....no, stockies are fine :)
So dont dodge the issue here and try to look net savvy - MAYBE I CAN ACTUALLY HELP YOU (I make cars go quick for a living) - what are you running - 60ft, 660ft (mph), ET and mph?

Dodge the issue? I do not have an issue, just asking for clarification on the 12 second package.

I currently do not have an VE R8 manual, I have a VE SSV Manual, that is what I would be putting the $2800 12 second package on.

If I was thinking of putting it on an R8 Manual i would have said so.

So with my current ride, would I need the added expense of ST Radials to achieve sub 13 seconds ET's?

[Martin_D]

Ok its like this....continue bashing away here with whats whittled down to nothing about nothing, or sit down and watch the movie thats just started on FOX Movie Greats.....sorry dude will come back and take some pi$$ (or whatever you call it) later :lol: :lol: :)

[Titanium]

OK.

Thanks for answering my question or not as the case is this time.:)

Enjoy your movie.

[EXCESSV]

That would be a fair improvement on what you've run to date wouldnt it?i am not the only one running low 13s for the power i have.

if ST will gauarantee that the $2800 package with TRUE street trim will run my SSV into the 12s then i will rip everything off...put all his stuff on and give it a shot...if it doesnt run it i will return all the parts and receive a full refund...

but that gaurentee isnt gonna happen and i will continue to better my times on street tyres...having axle tramp and tailshaft issue currently so the current time which has slighly improved since will remain like that for at least a couple of weeks till the car is sorted

at Titanium said paying the $40 and trying to beat your own time with TRUE street trim is the challenge.
i wanna know that rolling round the streets the car is capable of XX.XXs @ XXXmph as is...i dont have to pull over bolt some MT ETs and then be able to do that time...

one day i might go down the path of MT Streets, etc and no doubt 12s will be a walk in the park but i dont drive my car with MT Streets everyday to work with interior out, etc

[LSX-438]

Here is a little teaser of the Russo VE OTR (more pics to follow)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2138/1803073076_cd2cb606a6.jpg

[EXCESSV]

That sounds nice!!! What was the MPH Dean?

Alexi will ask paul mate as his last run was against this monster :shock:

[Alex(AUS)]

Ok its like this....continue bashing away here with whats whittled down to nothing about nothing, or sit down and watch the movie thats just started on FOX Movie Greats.....sorry dude will come back and take some pi$$ (or whatever you call it) later :lol: :lol: :)

I would have just answered "yes" to that one tuna ... sounds like you cant do it ....

But on that note, GMM did it (12 second pass@108mph) with tune and cold air only in a SS manual ... they actually flashed the car on the track ...

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=76931&highlight=VE+12

I asked Phonsy about it in person ... and he said yes it can be done ... tune only .. he even said 109 or 110 may be possible (he has actually run quicker than that run on the thread)

Maybe you should give GMM a call Tits ...

Alex

[Titanium]

< snip >

Maybe you should give GMM a call Tits ...

Alex < snip >

Like that is going to happen!

[Alex(AUS)]

Like that is going to happen!

LOL ...

Alex

[UTE FORCE]

One thing to remember guys is we DONT have a dragstrip here to go and make pass after pass to acheive a time....this is in no way a cop out and it was infact my idea to run Tunas VE on Drag radials at the recent Holden Nats because we were focused on Gareths car and the VE was drivien to heathcote and made only a couple of passes and got its 12 then it was parked up and we got on with the real job at hand...for the $2800 this is a fantastic package that i have seen countless people drive away from the workshop extremely happy to have gained a significant boost in performance for such a small outlay...with enough passes and the right conditions i have no doubt the A6 VE with this package could run a 12 on street tyres if that was required,i think for us to go over to Heathcote and run a 12 straight up is awesome,if we had been flogging the car down the strip 100s of times to crack a 12 then i wouldnt be so enthused.Enjoy your cars guys:)

[Alex(AUS)]

Perhaps someone will be interested in this "baby" cam to help with the task at hand ... going cheap

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260174461720&ssPageName=ADME:B:DBS:MOTORS:1123

Specs are (from Texas Speed);

TSP XS Series Camshaft:
Magic Stick V.3 237/242 .603/.609" Camshaft With Your Choice of Lobe Separation (112 degree standard)

The Magic Stick V3 camshaft is Texas Speed's premier LS1 camshaft! This camshaft has gone as fast as 10.50s n/a with stock heads in our 98 Z28 test car.
This camshaft features Comp Cams XER lobes! The XER lobes have been proven to make big horsepower & torque thanks to their aggressive ramp rates & healthy lift.

2300-6800 RPM Power Band with a peak around 6400rpm; This is an excellent performance camshaft with a rough idle! Custom tuning required

This camshaft typically gains approximately 55+rwhp!

Nice cam this one ...

Alex

[The_Senator]

i will ask paul mate as his last run was against this monster :shock:

11.967 @ 192.60km/h 6o" 2.0.. 660" - 7.8@ 153km/h

"E" series HSV with Supercharger...

Hope this helps..

[dadem0n]

Ok its like this....continue bashing away here with whats whittled down to nothing about nothing, or sit down and watch the movie thats just started on FOX Movie Greats.....sorry dude will come back and take some pi$$ (or whatever you call it) later :lol: :lol: :)

Cmon guys! Stop asking Tuna direct questions all the time :bawl:
You can only word one statement so many ways :lol:

Let him watch his Kevin Costner in peace :limpy:

http://www.joinjoe.de/Gallery/Boys/kevin1/Bilder/Kevin%20Costner%2011.jpg


Field of Dreams

Program search
Free to Air Pay TV

Start time: 6:40 PM Tuesday, 30th October 2007
End time: 8:30 PM
Duration: 110 minutes
Channel: Showtime Greats
Category: Other
Description: (1989) James Earl Jones, Ray Liotta. Oscar-winner Kevin Costner stars as an Iowa corn farmer who builds a baseball diamond at the request of a mysterious voice in his head. A magical journey begins as the ghosts of players past emerge.

[Titanium]

11.967 @ 192.60km/h 6o" 2.0.. 660" - 7.8@ 153km/h

"E" series HSV with Supercharger...

Hope this helps..

That would give ya a chubby!


OEM rubber or ST radials ........ lol ... I had to ask!:smilesandbanana:

[The_Senator]

OEM Rubber.. OEM RIMS...

He literally drove back to the pits, picked up his blonde GF and a couple of mates and drove off..

No weight removed, no nothing..

Farker made my 13.9 final run look slow!! :(

[RED R8]

It's easy really, market it as a 12 second package (street trim) then guarantee it "every car"..No 12's no pay.:hide:

[Uncle Tone]

It's easy really, market it as a 12 second package (street trim) then guarantee it "every car"..No 12's no pay.:hide:

Hey Tuna, let me drive!!

If I can run a 12 with it, anyone can! :D

[STATIE]

Here is a little teaser of the Russo VE OTR (more pics to follow)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2138/1803073076_cd2cb606a6.jpg

I think that this is the picture that matters, great concept.:bow:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2224/1802239201_1500bccf4f.jpg

[The_Senator]

Noice... Very nice indeed...

does the Radiator have any effect on the incoming air??

[Martin_D]

Thats a nice looking inlet LSX-438 :cool:
Good to see some more mods for these cars that work :bow:

[LSX-438]

I guess the cats out of the bag now!

watch the copies surface.

Well done to the Russo brothers; this is one kick arse cold air setup. Don't forget we were doing malfess (and had the 1/4 mile results) way before HPT and EFILive offered speed-density off the shelf.

I think the secret it to "just do it"..

[troytroy]

I must say that "Street trim" means differing things to people. If anyone was marketing a XXsec package with $XXXX. I would fully expect that after dropping off my Stock as a rock car to XX workshop and spending the EXACT (not a red cent more!) amount of money listed above....I could drive down the road to the track and expect to see a XXsec or better time on the board (obvisouly the driver being of "normal" abilities). If I was a clever businessman I would also ensure that if said it was a XX sec car I would ensure that there was a bit of fat to play with so I wouldn't have to argue with Mrs Daisy......

If this can not be achieved, then it is false advertising. Or at least, like they do on adverts on the TV, there has to be lots of fine print at the bottom like:

*test conducted on a 40degree fully prepped track at -5degrees temperature ambient, below sea level, using non-road legal slick tyres with spare wheel removed (technically not RTA compliant), fuel tank half empty, car not being idled excessively prior to start.....air conditioner off, tyre pressure lowered to 5psi, VE HSV big rear wheels fitted...world renowned anorexic racing driver at the helm who's wearing his lucky undies and good luck charm..........all Downhill

Street trim means to me that the car is in the exact specification and TRIM as my wife drives the car when she goes to get some milk. Too often the V8 community has been embarrassed because they talk of big power on dynos and awesome track times only to be beaten by mildly tuned WRXs/EVOs ILLEGALLY on the street because they weigh sweet F All and don't have grip problems. We as a community need to realise that street trim is exactly that. The trim that you drive the car to work in. Not "street trim" plus three hours preparation and swapping of parts. But that's just me. True drag racers don't really give a shit what street trim is anyway.....

So the argument will never end based on peoples different philosophies and backgrounds.

[STATIE]

I asked Phonsy about it in person ... and he said yes it can be done ... tune only .. he even said 109 or 110 may be possible (he has actually run quicker than that run on the thread)


From what I have seen - a 12 second pass on a dead stock L98 VE would definately be possible with just a tune, in fact I tried to talk Phonsey into trying it the night he ran that dead stock V tune & CAI test but he simply ran out of time.

It should also be easier with a manual than an auto as stock auto's just dont have the stall speed to get the launch quick enough.
That is why StreetTuna didn't really get any advantage from using MT drag radials on that 12 sec pass. His 60 ft was practically a flat 2.0 which is pretty standard for a stock auto on streeters and the rolling diametor would have effectively raised his diff ratio which is why he lost MPH using them in conjunction with their stickyness holding the relatively low powered car back.

[Martin_D]

All good advice there troytroy, I agree totally :)
I feel for some of these guys though, and understand their hostility when they have spent in some cases well over $5000 on modifications and are clocking the same sorts of ETs and MPH as a stock or very near stock car. Thankfully there are companies out there proving their products on the track, us, the Russos, GM Motorsport etc and getting the results :cool:

[RED R8]

I must say that "Street trim" means differing things to people. If anyone was marketing a XXsec package with $XXXX. I would fully expect that after dropping off my Stock as a rock car to XX workshop and spending the EXACT (not a red cent more!) amount of money listed above....I could drive down the road to the track and expect to see a XXsec or better time on the board (obvisouly the driver being of "normal" abilities). If I was a clever businessman I would also ensure that if said it was a XX sec car I would ensure that there was a bit of fat to play with so I wouldn't have to argue with Mrs Daisy......

If this can not be achieved, then it is false advertising. Or at least, like they do on adverts on the TV, there has to be lots of fine print at the bottom like:

*test conducted on a 40degree fully prepped track at -5degrees temperature ambient, below sea level, using non-road legal slick tyres with spare wheel removed (technically not RTA compliant), fuel tank half empty, car not being idled excessively prior to start.....air conditioner off, tyre pressure lowered to 5psi, VE HSV big rear wheels fitted...world renowned anorexic racing driver at the helm who's wearing his lucky undies and good luck charm..........all Downhill

Street trim means to me that the car is in the exact specification and TRIM as my wife drives the car when she goes to get some milk. Too often the V8 community has been embarrassed because they talk of big power on dynos and awesome track times only to be beaten by mildly tuned WRXs/EVOs ILLEGALLY on the street because they weigh sweet F All and don't have grip problems. We as a community need to realise that street trim is exactly that. The trim that you drive the car to work in. Not "street trim" plus three hours preparation and swapping of parts. But that's just me. True drag racers don't really give a shit what street trim is anyway.....

So the argument will never end based on peoples different philosophies and backgrounds.

Roger that..:bow:


All good advice there troytroy, I agree totally :)
I feel for some of these guys though, and understand their hostility when they have spent in some cases well over $5000 on modifications and are clocking the same sorts of ETs and MPH as a stock or very near stock car. Thankfully there are companies out there proving their products on the track, us, the Russos, GM Motorsport etc and getting the results :cool:

Is it realistic to compare yours and other workshop owned cars to that of the general public ? Lets be honest you own TT workshop owned cars run numbers that a large majority of your customers cars can't.You have proven you know what your doing and have run 12's in your OWN Ve but not everyone will :)

[Alex(AUS)]

I think that this is the picture that matters, great concept.:bow:
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2224/1802239201_1500bccf4f.jpg

That does look good ... dahm ... I have to get a mafless tune ... has anyone run this past Tone? I am sure there is some regulation here that states that there must be no discrimination against those that want to retain the maf ...

Wouldnt it be better if the filter was totally upright? Sort of a ram-air effect ... might be able to get 1psi out of it.

Alex

[ballbreaker]

Ermm so me turning up to have some fun at the drags on street tyres is wasting track time? :confused: Newbie?? Can't agree with you on that sorry.

I'm interested in getting the best time I can with the car in street trim, that's where half the fun is.. (for me personally)



This is my limiting factor in going any better in the VE.. I know I have the power to lay down a better time and MPH, but then like with all these things it means aftermarket clutch, diff suspension setup (i.e unlower the car) etc etc. I'm really happy with a 13.6 @107.7 given the bolt on mods done. All it really means is I have to spend more $$ to help get this better time.. i.e ripshift, clutch rear shocks/springs etc.. no doubt this will happen though after the influences of the forum :)

Tuna, Any of your 12 second packages actually run under 13 seconds in a manual.. (no ripshift, or aftermarket clutch)? Just curious..

SPOT ON, thats the fun stock.add semi slicks & joe blows gona take off at least 2 tenths.

[mickve]

:)
That does look good ... dahm ... I have to get a mafless tune ... has anyone run this past Tone? I am sure there is some regulation here that states that there must be no discrimination against those that want to retain the maf ...

Wouldnt it be better if the filter was totally upright? Sort of a ram-air effect ... might be able to get 1psi out of it.

Alex

it may be better but it wont fit in and if you did make it fit it isnt going to get any cold air this was all looked at before designing this one.This one works fantastic and looks great.:)

[RED R8]

I wonder how close this OTR would be to fitting a VY ?

[Funky_Munky]

Guys, sorry to go off topic, but can someone tell me if this is a good time or not.

VX GTS with a full x-force exhaust (1 5/8" extractors, high flow cats and dual 2.5" exhaust) with absolutely no other mods and running on after market 19's getting 13.03 down the quarter.

[Alex(AUS)]

:)

it may be better but it wont fit in and if you did make it fit it isnt going to get any cold air this was all looked at before designing this one.This one works fantastic and looks great.:)

I think the Senator has the largest and cleanest opening of all the VEs by far ... it would work better still ... but then it might be a bit ugly because you would be able to clearly see the filter ... it is pretty much a huge opening with some thin black mesh ...

Alex

[CarlFST60L]

Guys, sorry to go off topic, but can someone tell me if this is a good time or not.

VX GTS with a full x-force exhaust (1 5/8" extractors, high flow cats and dual 2.5" exhaust) with absolutely no other mods and running on after market 19's getting 13.03 down the quarter.

Thats insane, to be honest, thats the fastest i have ever heard one go with basically no mod's other than exhaust! Are you sure there was no other mod's i.e. OTR, Air intake, throttle body, UDP, Hot water bypass, weight reduction, semi comps on the 19's? Is this your car, or did you hear this from someone?

I have had plenty of people say things like 'just exhuast' and say it ran 12.5 or what ever, but, on further questioning, or, finding the owner they soon tell you it has 'the normal mod's' i.e. 4.11 diff, stall, UDP, OTR, Tune, throttle body, throttle body bypass, ET's etc

[Alex(AUS)]

Thats insane, to be honest, thats the fastest i have ever heard one go with basically no mod's other than exhaust! Are you sure there was no other mod's i.e. OTR, Air intake, throttle body, UDP, Hot water bypass, weight reduction, semi comps on the 19's? Is this your car, or did you hear this from someone?

I have had plenty of people say things like 'just exhuast' and say it ran 12.5 or what ever, but, on further questioning, or, finding the owner they soon tell you it has 'the normal mod's' i.e. 4.11 diff, stall, UDP, OTR, Tune, throttle body, throttle body bypass, ET's etc

I have heard of a stock VX GTS running 12.8 ... cant confirm though ... I know that either Motor or Wheels have ran the old GTS to 112mph stock on 2 occasions ... thats moving along for stock ...

And, just a few days ago someone told me that they got a 117mph pass with the GTS heads and cam (+ all the other bolt-ons, stall, gears, exhaust etc) .. then this person put in a big cam and it ran 118mph :rofl:

Alex

[Funky_Munky]

Thats insane, to be honest, thats the fastest i have ever heard one go with basically no mod's other than exhaust! Are you sure there was no other mod's i.e. OTR, Air intake, throttle body, UDP, Hot water bypass, weight reduction, semi comps on the 19's? Is this your car, or did you hear this from someone?

I have had plenty of people say things like 'just exhuast' and say it ran 12.5 or what ever, but, on further questioning, or, finding the owner they soon tell you it has 'the normal mod's' i.e. 4.11 diff, stall, UDP, OTR, Tune, throttle body, throttle body bypass, ET's etc

I am absolutely positive it has no other mods at all. No OTR, no improved air intake, standard TB, no UDP and no weight reduction. The wheels are just standard Falkens. The car belongs to one of my best mates who I have known for years and I was there the day the car ran the 13.03.

I was the one who actually helped him buy the car and we both had a good look through the engine bay and the owner had confirmed there was no tune done on it. We were thinking about taking the spare out and opening the airbox before the race but we decided to leave everything as is.

He still has the slip so Ill see if I can get him to scan it and Ill put it up.

[LS1TOY]

That is pretty impressive, interesting to see the mph.




And, just a few days ago someone told me that they got a 117mph pass with the GTS heads and cam (+ all the other bolt-ons, stall, gears, exhaust etc) .. then this person put in a big cam and it ran 118mph :rofl:

Alex

no doubt, i think deejay was runnin 118mph with just boltons!
Jake,

[Dee Jay]

I think you need to take a step back and have a look at the whole thing, What Tuner, Russo and GM Motorsport are saying is that these packages are 12.xx second capable you would have to be a fool to think that under ANY conditions they could run the times but under good conditions, good launch, it can be acheived.

Lets face facts any good time no matter the mods Turbo ,Cam, etc will only be acheived under favorable conditions:1peek:

At least knowing what the potential is, should be more than enough to encourage you to learn how to drive the car, slowly change the revs at launch tyre presures etc, or do you just keep doing the same old thing hoping to pull one out of your arse?:driving:

As for those saying well they are the shops cars, WELL you are dam right thats because when the new model comes out they are the ones who put the $$$$ on the line so that the rest can benifit.

I mean do you think that the shops put in a speacial order from Holden for a car thats a better build order?

It would be a foolish operator to say that the only mods were A,B,&C when a car ran a time, but in fact there was also D,E,F,G,H & I :eyes:

I Think Phonsy one night at Calder was asked at the Track if his tunes were worth the money so Phonsy dropped in a tune at the track said see how you go if you dont like it ill take the tune out ,well .......the guy couldnt get rid of the grin and wanted to book the car in for a cam.:)

[VXS]

I think you need to take a step back and have a look at the whole thing, What Tuner, Russo and GM Motorsport are saying is that these packages are 12.xx second capable you would have to be a fool to think that under ANY conditions they could run the times but under good conditions, good launch, it can be acheived.

Lets face facts any good time no matter the mods Turbo ,Cam, etc will only be acheived under favorable conditions:1peek:

At least knowing what the potential is, should be more than enough to encourage you to learn how to drive the car, slowly change the revs at launch tyre presures etc, or do you just keep doing the same old thing hoping to pull one out of your arse?:driving:

As for those saying well they are the shops cars, WELL you are dam right thats because when the new model comes out they are the ones who put the $$$$ on the line so that the rest can benifit.

I mean do you think that the shops put in a speacial order from Holden for a car thats a better build order?

It would be a foolish operator to say that the only mods were A,B,&C when a car ran a time, but in fact there was also D,E,F,G,H & I :eyes:

I Think Phonsy one night at Calder was asked at the Track if his tunes were worth the money so Phonsy dropped in a tune at the track said see how you go if you dont like it ill take the tune out ,well .......the guy couldnt get rid of the grin and wanted to book the car in for a cam.:)


Well said Dee Jay

[Alex(AUS)]

All good advice there troytroy, I agree totally :)
I feel for some of these guys though, and understand their hostility when they have spent in some cases well over $5000 on modifications and are clocking the same sorts of ETs and MPH as a stock or very near stock car. Thankfully there are companies out there proving their products on the track, us, the Russos, GM Motorsport etc and getting the results :cool:

Ok ... stuff the times then ST ... you are not willing to say a VE SS will do 12.9 without slicks ...

Can you guarantee a VE SS auto with your package will run 110mph on stock rubber (you have said that power = mph and that slicks sometimes rob mph)???

Autos are easy to drive ... stall, go, hold accelerator flat ... so it should be pretty consistent and easy (no driver involvement really)...

Alex

[badnews]

Too often the V8 community has been embarrassed because they talk of big power on dynos and awesome track times only to be beaten by mildly tuned WRXs/EVOs ILLEGALLY on the street because they weigh sweet F All and don't have grip problems.

that would be embarassing. if anyone here has a problem beating a mildly tuned wrx they should have some serious words to their tuner... lol