VZ Clubby or Ve ss

[V8_UTE]

Hey

ive been deliberating over this for a couple of weeks and can't decide, maybee your feedback can help me decide? Either the vz clubsport or Ve ss. :confused:

[cosmo vyss]

I have a soft spot for the HSV's. Having said that I would go with the new Ve platform, better handling, newer model and it has a decent engine. Check out some of the results of the exhaust and tune guys, you will be impressed.

JB

[Wonky]

Along very similar lines - see Australian LS1 and Holden Forums (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=85629)

Only difference is it's comparing a GTO to VE so ignore the 2/4 door stuff and all the rest applies.

[Curtis-R]

Was in the same position 12 Months ago.. drove both and could not go back to the older platform of the VZ over the VE SS.. Saved myself some good $$
to put towards current mods.. good luck with your decsion.. have you driven both?

[Brockfan05]

I think the VE's have proven themselves to be a far better vehicle than the old VZ's. I traded out of a Z series Clubby into a VE SS and it was the best choice I ever made in relation to a car purchase.

[ryno]

Was asking myself the same question back in May and the VE won the argument.

I love HSV's but I found that it felt older, where as the VE SSV has a new set of body lines and a pretty reasonable interior.

[VooDoo]

GTO First choice
Then the VE SS (or better still the SSV)
Then the VZ Clubby

I was never a huge fan of the VZ, i preferred the VYII as it looked more aggressive.

[Funky_Munky]

Mate, I was in the exact same position as you a few months ago.

I took a VE SS and a VZ Clubsport for a test drive and eventually went with the Clubsport. People do tend to give rave reviews about the VE but to be honest, I didnt find the difference in handling that great. It was pretty much along the same lines.

Few things to keep in mind of course is the Clubby is an HSV so it comes with all the HSV extras - bodykit, interior, brakes. The Clubby will have already suffered its highest percentage of depreciation as its 2 years old. It will hold its value better than the SS. HSV is more unique where as the SS will be just another SS in a few years to come. In my opinion, its a lot better looking and finally, in stock standard form, the Clubby is faster.

Personally, I would never buy a current model car or a brand new car as its just not a great investment choice. However, if you take the SS for a drive and decide its a lot better than the Clubsport then you should go for it.

Basically, the best way to make up your mind is to take both a test drive and see how you go.

[CarlFST60L]

I didnt find the difference in handling that great. It was pretty much along the same lines.

I would strongly disagree with this. We put some effort into making sure our money was well spent on the new VE platform. We owned a VY for 75,000km, and have driven the VE SS & SSV around town and then took a Calis V for 1000km, now done 18,000km in the E HSV R8.

I drove a VY clubby on the weekend to blow the dust off it for a mate with no license and was reminded of the difference between VE and VT platforms. From performance (mostly notably low down torque), ride quality and general refinement, its all far different... The VT/VZ are GREAT cars, I still love them, but the VE is a better setup for Australian roads on conditions for daily use, and it should be with 1 billion dollars invested! For a real drag or circuit car, i would still probably choose the VY/VZ as its lighter, cheaper, everyone knows them inside out, parts for them are everywhere.. I remember taking my E R8 to the Wakefield after i picked it up, and two dealers didn't even know they have a different oil filter to the VZ LS2 :lol:

Previous owners of VZ Clubby, VY II R8 Clubbie, VY Clubby, VY SS that have driven my car or the calais always comment on how the VE soaks up the bumps. Its so much smoother, it loves the bumps... This is also the best part about the BA/BF, they do handle the rough roads better than a VT/VZ, and then the VE is better again!

A good example of this soaking up of rough roads is the speed bump on our street, its a 50 zone, its one of those big speed bumps designed to make buzz box 4 cyl people show how loud there cars are when they take off. My VY can only go about 30km/h before it becomes to harsh, mostly the front suspension, with the chassis soaking up the impact which in turn you feel in the steering and seat, then with stiff suspension on the VY (Pedders sport rider and shocks), you can only do about 15km/h before its to harsh... Then we drive the Calais V or E R8 and suddenly you can go over the same bump at 60km/h and its just funny because your going so fast, they just glide over it, no feeling of the impact other than the car moving up and then down. The R8 actually handles it better than the Calais V for some reason, but still handles far better...

I still get amused when a couple of the local boys stir me up in their VY/VZ's, only to have to almost stop to go over the 5 speed bumps in my area while we cruise over at 50km/h :stick: Ahhh, that use to be me :lol:

With the VE, $2800 for a 12 second car is a great BFYB, I spent $5000 (many years ago now) on my VY and managed a 13.1 at best, with OTR, cooling, bits removed, tyres pressures dropped, but averaged 13.4/13.5 when driven in true street setup... Which is what a VE SS will do out of the box...

sorry for the long post

[SS Enforcer]

I agree with Carl .. I went out last year to buy a VZ on a runout deal hopefully but some bastard salesman offered me a drive of Ve SS. I drove the auto first then a 4 speed and was so impressed I bought the first VE I ever drove.

The pre VE models are good cars and not bagging them at all but TBH the VE is a vast improvement in handling and ride comfort. When pushed very hard it's just so easy to keep control of it (with esp off as well) . If you want a HSV go for it VY or VZ clubbies are still very nice cars, but be warned Don't drive a VE unless your preparred to part with some $$ afterwards :smilesandbanana:

cheers

[AQICLS3]

Really depends on what you are going to do with your car, daily driver or something more. I was looking at updating to a GTS but after driving it through the twisties was not overly impressed found the suspension and steering to soft and not as direct as my VY11 clubby. Also for the price difference, I still like the look of my clubby rather than the new VE. So I have decide to do the susension to coil overs. cam and GTS boy kit and will still be no where near the price of a new car. Also with the new size wheels and the K's you get out of them the price for tyres are rediculous. Plus a HSV will hold its price better than a SS

[Caprice270]

I agree with the comment that the VE SS will be yet another forgettable SS in a couple of years whereas the VZ Clubby will always be something special, and it has ofcourse suffered most of its depreciation. It also offers 27 more valuable kilowatt.

[gasguz]

I agree with the comment that the VE SS will be yet another forgettable SS in a couple of years whereas the VZ Clubby will always be something special, and it has ofcourse suffered most of its depreciation. It also offers 27 more valuable kilowatt.

Yep, in a few years the SS (V or otherwise) will be just another dime a dozen SS where as the HSV will still get your neck turning to have a look at it & it will still probably be worth more when you go to sell it. But in saying this the VE is a great car (the wife has a calais V 6 banger) & it would all come down to what suited you.

I would got the VZ HSV (I dont care about going over speedhumps doing 60k as my cars are a bit too low to be doing this sort of thing)

Good luck, either way you go

Cheers

[CarlFST60L]

I don't get all these comments about how they will be 'just another SS'... On this logic, should we still debating why upgrade from a VS SS, they wont depreciate much more :lol:

[Funky_Munky]

I don't get all these comments about how they will be 'just another SS'... On this logic, should we still debating why upgrade from a VS SS, they wont depreciate much more :lol:

Well, both those arguments are mutually exclusive so you cant really use the first argument to prove the second.

The first argument ("will just be another SS") is based on the fact that SSs are more common than what HSVs are and therefore will not really get a lot of attention in a few years to come. However, people will still look at the Clubby in several years as a unique and different car. So what the first argument boils down to is uniqueness.

Second argument (depreciation) is more leaning towards the monetary factor of a car purchase. For a lot of people, it does not make sense to buy a lower class of a newer model car at the same price of a higher class of an older model car - only 1 - 2 years older to be precise. However, if money is no factor in buying a car and neither is depreciation nor resale value then the argument is moot.

[CarlFST60L]

Well, both those arguments are mutually exclusive so you cant really use the first argument to prove the second.

The first argument ("will just be another SS") is based on the fact that SSs are more common than what HSVs are and therefore will not really get a lot of attention in a few years to come. However, people will still look at the Clubby in several years as a unique and different car. So what the first argument boils down to is uniqueness.

Second argument (depreciation) is more leaning towards the monetary factor of a car purchase. For a lot of people, it does not make sense to buy a lower class of a newer model car at the same price of a higher class of an older model car - only 1 - 2 years older to be precise. However, if money is no factor in buying a car and neither is depreciation nor resale value then the argument is moot.

Yeah, i get all that, its i dont agree with the 'another SS' comment.

We have had two x VY's... We had an stock SS and a modified SV8, the SV8 turned heads, and gained heaps of interest, just from a really nice set of deep dish wheels, SS Kit, lowing, big brakes, and great exhaust note, the SS was just another SS, but it was stock, it looked nice, but it was still just a stock SS...

A stock VT/VZ HSV does little for gaining attention, they are nice, nicer than the SS, but they are just another HSV when stock (GTS/GTO is still a stand out stock, I love that look even as stock), put some wheels and lower it, give it an exhaust or something unique, the it comes to life, it will stand out. With the E series HSV's they still turn heads in stock form because they are rare... Give it another year or two, and they will be just another HSV...

My point is, my SV8 gained almost as much interest as the new E R8, the SS gained no attention at all...

Buying new cars will always cost you money
SV8 = $40K, 4 years and 80,000km sold for $25K
SS = $52K, 3 years and 40,000km sold for $32K
ER8 = $64K, 1 year and 18,000km ??? Well into the 50's i would think

You play, you pay.

[Funky_Munky]

Buying new cars will always cost you money
SV8 = $40K, 4 years and 80,000km sold for $25K
SS = $52K, 3 years and 40,000km sold for $32K
ER8 = $64K, 1 year and 18,000km ??? Well into the 50's i would think

You play, you pay.

My point exactly.

I recently bought a mint 05 VZ Clubby (rego'd in 06) with 10,000 kms on the clock for $39K. The person who sold it lost $25K in just over 1.5 years.

If I were to sell it in 2 years, Im pretty sure I could get around $34 - $35K for it since it wont have many kms on it (only drive about 200kms a week over the weekend). So effectively I would have only lost around $ 4 - 5K on it.

If I bought the SSV, I would have paid around $55K for it and in two years I would only get around $35K so I would have lost approx $20K on it.

Even though the SSV is a new car, and new platform, etc given the info above, the choice was easy for me.

[Brockfan05]

Just another SS eh? Bang for your Bucks 2 years in a row, and the VE model range winning a host of other prestigious awards. SS is faster 0 - 100 than R8 E Series in a meaningful way and in reality is not a lot down on the power of the R8 (in this instance, the badge that says 307 is just a decoration). The R8 in turn is quicker than the Z Series...........

Anyway, to the author of this thread - you will get as many answers to your question as there are participants in it, as someone has already stated, IT'S YOU that has to be happy with your decision at the end of the day!:)

[Marco]

I agree with the comment that the VE SS will be yet another forgettable SS in a couple of years whereas the VZ Clubby will always be something special

Does, say, a VS Clubsport still turn heads, or even a VY? I think after a few years to most people they would all be 'just another hotted up Commodore' and not get any attention at all. In other words, they will all be pretty forgettable in a few years from now.

Buy what you like - not what other people look at going down the street (unless, for some reason, that matters to you).

[VESS06]

I recently had the choice between the 2 and decided on the obvious.

So far I'm pretty happy with the ride, performance and handling. The only problem I have is the T56 gearbox which is sticky when you need 2nd and the handbrake cap that fell off. Also the bluetooth phone connection sometimes locks up - otherwise the vehicle has not let me down.

In the city I get over 500km per tank and that's only when pushing it half the time. The 19's are smoother than what I thought they would be and GM have really excelled with better support and material in the leather seats - very comfortable.

All up, I'm not disappointed with my decision and I get many eyes drooling over the machine at every set of lights I stop at.

[RED R8]

I as you may know are asking a similar question and my choice if I was in the car everyday clocking up some ks would go for the VE purely on ride refinement ,but in my situation I want something more special that I drive 2-3 times a week so the GTO is my pick I don't need four doors and Because I won't spend lots of time in it I can live with a bit less driving refinement.A VE SS or VZ Clubby or GTO all can look very very nice and can be made to suit your tastes, Drive them both and you should get a good feel for the one you want.Last month my sister headed of with her Vx ss to trade it on her all time favorite car VE SSV and left the dealership very disapointed at the interior and other bits and pieces two weeks later bought a 2004 VY R8 Clubby and she is over the moon with it so each to there own.
Good Luck

[CarlFST60L]

SS is faster 0 - 100 than R8 E Series

First time I have seen that, was that a motor test that had the SS come out on top? I have raced a couple stock for stock, and it was almost dead even, had a full day racing one member on here, he was marginally quicker with dropped tyre pressures, CAI and a few things out of the car (1 tenth of 400m)... The main reason they make the same times is because of the extra weight of the R8, and the overly large brakes don't help unless you have to stop ;) Nothing to do with the 307 badge being wrong.

[vxclubsport569]

Does, say, a VS Clubsport still turn heads, or even a VY? I think after a few years to most people they would all be 'just another hotted up Commodore' and not get any attention at all. In other words, they will all be pretty forgettable in a few years from now.

Buy what you like - not what other people look at going down the street (unless, for some reason, that matters to you).

The VS Clubby or GTS still turns heads and turns more heads than a VT/VX SS which was a few years younger and are as common as taxi cabs
HSV always has a following through all the demographics so its a personal choice.
In a few years times the Clubby will be worth more a significant amount more than the VE SS.

Past experience

VT Series I SS 179kw or VT Series I Clubby 195kw, no match the Clubby is worth many thousands more than the SS

[Brockfan05]

First time I have seen that, was that a motor test that had the SS come out on top? I have raced a couple stock for stock, and it was almost dead even, had a full day racing one member on here, he was marginally quicker with dropped tyre pressures, CAI and a few things out of the car (1 tenth of 400m)... The main reason they make the same times is because of the extra weight of the R8, and the overly large brakes don't help unless you have to stop ;) Nothing to do with the 307 badge being wrong.

Yeah Carl that was a MOTOR test. They recently dynoed an auto SS-V, an SS manual, an R8 auto and a manual GTS. The difference between the SS and the R8 was less than 8 kw. The test was valid I believe as they were done back to back on the same dyno in the same conditions etc. The SS was quicker 0 -100 than the R8 by only a couple of tenths - but again, a pro driver did back to back tests. As for the 307 badge, it was determined by the dyno tests that the HSV's werent firing as hard as they should be, and the Holdens were firing a little harder than they should be. Dont get me wrong mate, if I could get an R8, I would be there in a millisecond. You are right about the weight thing though, SS is a fair bit lighter, and MOTOR commented that the softer rear springs in the Holdens allowed slightly better power down on launches. Then there is the much debated L98 heads vs the LS2 heads.......:D

[macca33]

For me, the SS is a good car - undoubtedly - but it is very common these days. I would take the HSV over the VE SS/SSV, as a personal preference.

For those who think that an 'old' HSV doesn't turn heads, I can assure you that they DO. The last weekend before I came back over to Sudan, I visaited my brother (owns a VY GTS), up in Shepparton. Passing through the town and stopping at McDonald's at lunchtime, I can honestly say that many people were looking, staring and walking around our cars. I receive comments about my car all the time and a bloke pulled my missus over (on the rare occasion that she has driven it) and asked to take photos of the car a few months ago. People do still like the look and idea of a HSV, be they older models, or the latest batch.

As vxclubsport569 stated, it has a lot to do with the whole demographic that is manifested by the 'HSV envy' that a great percentage of young blokes develop when they are still too young to drive/buy a car. It doesn't mean that if you don't own a HSV you must have a crap car, it simply means that many people aspire to owning one.

In the end, for the OP, YOU have to decide what YOU want and go from there.

I think it would be silly to dismiss the VZ and older HSV models because people have said the VE SS/SSV is a better car.

I'm fairly certain that people will 'rave' about their new VF (?), possibly with LS3 engine, when it is released in the near future. Will the VEs then be old and decrepit when they are superseded? I don't think so.

Cheers,

Macca

[V8_UTE]

Thank's for your comments still hard to decide, have to get out there and test drive the Ve I think drove the vz & loved it though! It's an everyday car for me being in Real estate need my car for work.

[RED R8]

Thank's for your comments still hard to decide, have to get out there and test drive the Ve I think drove the vz & loved it though! It's an everyday car for me being in Real estate need my car for work.

This car buying thing is hard work mate...:)

[CarlFST60L]

Yeah Carl that was a MOTOR test. They recently dynoed an auto SS-V, an SS manual, an R8 auto and a manual GTS. The difference between the SS and the R8 was less than 8 kw. The test was valid I believe as they were done back to back on the same dyno in the same conditions etc. The SS was quicker 0 -100 than the R8 by only a couple of tenths - but again, a pro driver did back to back tests. As for the 307 badge, it was determined by the dyno tests that the HSV's werent firing as hard as they should be, and the Holdens were firing a little harder than they should be. Dont get me wrong mate, if I could get an R8, I would be there in a millisecond. You are right about the weight thing though, SS is a fair bit lighter, and MOTOR commented that the softer rear springs in the Holdens allowed slightly better power down on launches. Then there is the much debated L98 heads vs the LS2 heads.......:D

Would be interesting to know how many k's each car had on the clock... They have a habit of comparing brand new cars with run in cars and not telling anyone... From our testing, we see VE SS's running on average 220kwrw and the HSV’s running 240kwrw, about 20kwrw difference, good fuel and a car that’s driven hard seems to produce the best dyno results.

Also, I spent quite a bit of time in a VE SS/SSV and Calais, and the R8 is slightly softer than all of them (was surprised that the Calais wasn’t the smoothest!), noticeably smoother when driving, I was actually worried when I bought my car that it would be harsher than the SS/SSV/Calais that we drove, but to our surprise, it was noticeably smoother.

From my R8, I ran 13.5 off a 2.0 60ft 100% stock in 30-40Degree heat.. The forum member that ran 13.4 in his VE SS on the exact same day had some minor home modifications (lowered tyres pressures, spare wheel out, CAI modifications, I think that’s all), say those mod’s only add up to only 1 tenth (usually more like 2 or 3 tenths), worst case that makes them equal in ET, so I cant see how motor could gain 2 tenths only to 100km/h :confused: We both must have had 40 runs each in one day, and we both (from what I sore) averaged 13.5ish..

I’m not saying any of this to try to prove my car is ‘faster/better’ or what ever, just showing that what we have seen shows different results stock for stock comparison to what motor achieved, but that’s nothing new... I would do some more testing, but the R8 is no longer stock

[vscorsa]

The performance of the different vehicles is a little irrelevant because most people on here are going to modify them anyway.

The resale of an HSZ is always going to be better due to the limited numbers produced and due to the reputation that HSV have developed over the years. This can be seen through all the different models over the years.

It is up to the individual buy to what they are after at the time, but I know which one I would rather be trying to sell in a few years time.

[Caprice270]

Yeah Carl that was a MOTOR test. They recently dynoed an auto SS-V, an SS manual, an R8 auto and a manual GTS. The difference between the SS and the R8 was less than 8 kw. The test was valid I believe as they were done back to back on the same dyno in the same conditions etc. The SS was quicker 0 -100 than the R8 by only a couple of tenths - but again, a pro driver did back to back tests. As for the 307 badge, it was determined by the dyno tests that the HSV's werent firing as hard as they should be, and the Holdens were firing a little harder than they should be. Dont get me wrong mate, if I could get an R8, I would be there in a millisecond. You are right about the weight thing though, SS is a fair bit lighter, and MOTOR commented that the softer rear springs in the Holdens allowed slightly better power down on launches. Then there is the much debated L98 heads vs the LS2 heads.......:D

I remember that test, it was very disturbing but far too controversial to bring up on the forum because you'd get accused of trolling within about 1 millisecond. Or you'd get a million people saying "yeah but...blah blah blah" instead of demanding for HSV to explain the results.

[NickS]

I had a VYIISS that I had spec'd up to better than HSV levels ... I loved it. Then I got the E Series GTS for my wife, didn't take long to look for every excuse possible to use the GTS over the SS ... not because it was an HSV, because it was light years ahead of the VY in every way. So I sold the VY ... lost heaps of money and bought an SS-V ... best decision I ever made.

Anyone that says the difference between VZ & VE isn't very big hasn't spent enough time in a VE ... the difference is HUGE. My SS-V is lowered with 20 inch rims and it rides better than any VT-VZ I have been in. I'd take the VE without a 2nd thought.

[Funky_Munky]

Anyone that says the difference between VZ & VE isn't very big hasn't spent enough time in a VE ... the difference is HUGE. My SS-V is lowered with 20 inch rims and it rides better than any VT-VZ I have been in. I'd take the VE without a 2nd thought.

I took the VE SSV for a 30 min test drive before I bought the clubby, and in all honesty, I wasnt that impressed. Possibly because it was only 30 mins which didnt give enough time to truly appreciate the build quality of the car, or maybe I just got a dud model.

Im thinking I should go out and go for another test drive to see if there is any difference at all.

[CarlFST60L]

I remember that test, it was very disturbing but far too controversial to bring up on the forum because you'd get accused of trolling within about 1 millisecond. Or you'd get a million people saying "yeah but...blah blah blah" instead of demanding for HSV to explain the results.

Why would i demand HSV explain the results when the results we got were as expected :confused:

[SS Enforcer]

From my R8, I ran 13.5 off a 2.0 60ft 100% stock in 30-40Degree heat.. The forum member that ran 13.4 in his VE SS on the exact same day had some minor home modifications (lowered tyres pressures, spare wheel out, CAI modifications, I think that’s all), say those mod’s only add up to only 1 tenth (usually more like 2 or 3 tenths), worst case that makes them equal in ET, so I cant see how motor could gain 2 tenths only to 100km/h :confused: We both must have had 40 runs each in one day, and we both (from what I sore) averaged 13.5ish..



Yep that was me and I think that mine was a bit lighter than Carls car. I weighed in at 1850 kegs with spare and jack removed. My $25 CAI probably didn't make any difference though .. maybe it did who knows. As Carl said it was 13.5's all day, 53c track temp:confused: and 105-106 mph for both cars. Mine ripped out 1 only 13.4 pass.

I believe I got great bang for your buck value in mine when I bought it. Still love the car and can see me keeping it for a few years yet. I get people taking pics of it still which surprises me . I could have easily afforded an R8 or a GTS but tbh I didn't want to spend that kind of $$ on a car.

cheers

[CarlFST60L]

Yep that was me and I think that mine was a bit lighter than Carls car. I weighed in at 1850 kegs with spare and jack removed. My $25 CAI probably didn't make any difference though .. maybe it did who knows. As Carl said it was 13.5's all day, 53c track temp:confused: and 105-106 mph for both cars. Mine ripped out 1 only 13.4 pass.

I believe I got great bang for your buck value in mine when I bought it. Still love the car and can see me keeping it for a few years yet. I get people taking pics of it still which surprises me . I could have easily afforded an R8 or a GTS but tbh I didn't want to spend that kind of $$ on a car.

cheers

Thanks for posting up... That was a good day out racing, shame you one in the end :lol: I fogot it was 53C :confused:

The SS/SV8 has always been one of the best BFYB cars going, I bought my last one based on that very fact...

If anyone thinks the HSV has no value over the SS because of something you read in a magazine, you should get behind the wheel of both cars in questions ;)

[Brockfan05]

Thanks for posting up... That was a good day out racing, shame you one in the end :lol: I fogot it was 53C :confused:

The SS/SV8 has always been one of the best BFYB cars going, I bought my last one based on that very fact...

If anyone thinks the HSV has no value over the SS because of something you read in a magazine, you should get behind the wheel of both cars in questions ;)

I plan to do exactly that ;). I did have a good look at both before I bought the SS. Apart from some minor fruit which could be added at a later date to the SS, they werent too dissimilar IMO. I have owned 2 HSV's previously from new, Y series 2 (really good car), and a Z series (really REALLY bad car), and it really was luck of the draw as to whether you got a good one or not. That also applied to Holden though. As far as the "look at me factor" goes, I have gotten more interest in the VE SS than any other car that I've owned, except maybe my bright blue Evo 8 :D

[disci]

Hi all

I know noobs on forums are supposed to be sensible and not act like smart alecs, so please forgive me:

In the style of "Aussie Aussie Aussie - Oi Oi Oi!", I'd suggest:

"Steering Steering Steering - VE VE VE".

Regards

D

[randomcomments]

Take my comments as a non-commodore owner - I think the VE SS is a big step forward in Commodores. The current SS is the first Holden I have considered buying , and I don't think I'm alone.
So I'd get the VE SS over the previous gen HSV. Exhaust upgrade, sway bars/bushes and I guess some better brakes and it'd be fantastic.

[Brockfan05]

Hi all

I know noobs on forums are supposed to be sensible and not act like smart alecs, so please forgive me:

In the style of "Aussie Aussie Aussie - Oi Oi Oi!", I'd suggest:

"Steering Steering Steering - VE VE VE".

Regards

D

Not a smart aleck at all. I agree completely. VT - VZ steering was the worst of any car model I have driven. Captain Cooks ship had more steering feel and accuracy!!

[troytroy]

I had a similiar dilemma although mine was between HSV YII R8 or leather VZ SS.....The clincher for me was the extra stuff you get when you buy the HSV and the resale on an SS Commodore. SS Commodore resale is depressing.... Resale is only one thing, what made it easier is the extra things you get when you buy a HSV such as:

Leather - I wanted leather, way more luxurious, better looking, easier to clean with kids and better for resale down the track

Power - The HSV comes with headers and all I had to do was add a $500 cat back system and $500 tune and $200 intake and wallah - easy 330+ kw power. I sold the HSV catback exhaust and I sold the nice HSV smooth intake...thus reducing the costs further. So for economy of power the HSV wins hands down. Did I mention it came with 285kw and 510nm standard anyway?

The R8 comes with massive 4 spot harrop brakes all round. 343mm discs up front. Anyone who has experienced these brakes knows that they're worth every cent and you're able to push the car far more confidently han with the standard Holden brakes which are good for only the first couple of pushes.

Diff ratio in ther HSVs is higher - less money to change - 3.73 for manuals

Climate control and interior features are far better all electric seats in the front

stereo- loud 240w 8 speaker sub woofer system

Data dot technology - better for insurance although HSVs are worse for insurance!

R8 came with 19inch GTS wheels.....if I decide to change wheels I can sell my 19s for a reasonable amount and pay for a wheel of my choice for very little extra.

You get the instrument binnacle.

You get a body kit that stands out from all the other commodores around

Buy a low km second hand model 1-3 years and reap the benifits of both worlds - cheap price up front (most of the depreciation has gone) and reliability

So all in all the SS wouild have cost me much more to get all the extra features etc than the HSV and then if I did most of those to the SS I wouldn't get any of that money reflected in the resale value....lot of money down the drain.

What you'll need to do is decide BEFORE you buy any car what things you are likley to do to the car! and you'll need to be honest with yourself...because no matter how many "killler watts" are stamped on the back of the car - it's never going to be enough. and modifications costs money.