Clutch and its use

[JA SV8]

I have always wanted a definate answer on this, should you always use the clutch on a bike when changing gears?
I know you can do it without using the clutch but im not sure if the bikes are made to work like that all the time.

Cheers
James

[chrism697]

I have always wanted a definate answer on this, should you always use the clutch on a bike when changing gears?
I know you can do it without using the clutch but im not sure if the bikes are made to work like that all the time.

Cheers
James
not 100% sure about road bikes but with motocross and off road bikes, most people never use the clutch for up shifts (unless they hold the throttle on and get a quick grab of the gear to shift.....that was always slower for me though), i use it for down shifts (plenty of people still dont)
but on a motocross bike you should very rarely downshift when your not braking hard, in which case you would be using the clutch anyway

[VU_SS_UTE]

I never bother using the clutch on upshifts on any road bike I ride (had 2 diff bikes of my own for 4 years or so, never had a problem) unless its just commuting, and even then only usually from 1-2. You dont need to use it, its smoother without the clutch once you get it right and when you're really having a dip all your doing is rooting the clutch by trying to let it out so fast.

So in summary NO you don't need to use the clutch all the time, and it will not hurt the bike provided you know what your doing.

[JA SV8]

Thanks for that, i was taught to not use it so i really never have, even on the Ls course.....
It just seems so direct without it so yeah.

[Road Warrior]

The clutch is there for a reason.

Upshifting may be ok if you can pick the revs but personally I never clutchless shift.

[bambam]

Clutchless shifts eh?? Where to begin? :)

If done properly, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with a clutchless shift. Either up or down. But if done incorrectly, it "can" put adittional strain on your driveline components. Chain, gearbox etc.

Ill only ever really clutchless shift if im trying to wring the bejesus out of my bike. If thats the case, its a very easy thing to do. You simply go from full throttle to about 95% throttle, kick it in gear and back to full throttle. (95% throttle is really just a slight jolt of the wrist) Just really need to back off enough to unload the drivetrain.

The other way to shift up clutchless is to hold upwards pressure on the lever and let the fu$#er hit redline, bounce and keep going in the next gear. You dont need to back off the throttle as hittting the limiter has the same effect. Please note i DO NOT recommend this technique!!!!! :)

Clutchless downshifts are a bit harder to master but can be done easily enough. Again, they just require a very slight 'blip" of the throttle and she should be able to pop down a gear. Also again, ill only ever do this if im riding hard.

So basically, yeah you can do it, no it wont do damage to your bike (if done correctly) and yes it can be alot smoother than actually using a clutch!

[SLugg]

unless your drag racing the thing use the clutch , flat shifting if for noobs who want to look good , for normal riding use the clutch.

[chrism697]

what sort of bike are you riding.

if its an off road bike its not for "noobs who want to look good" its for 99% of riders, the "noobs" tend to be the ones reaching for the clutch every shift

[VU_SS_UTE]

unless your drag racing the thing use the clutch , flat shifting if for noobs who want to look good , for normal riding use the clutch.

Flat shiting is using the clutch but without backing off the throttle! We're not talking about flat shifting we're talking about clutchless shifting.

And its smoother and easier, they don't need it so why would you bother using the clutch every shift, using the clutch can actually unsettle the bike more if you're shifting up while still lent over coming out of a turn.


Clutchless shifts eh?? Where to begin? :)

If done properly, there is nothing wrong whatsoever with a clutchless shift. Either up or down. But if done incorrectly, it "can" put adittional strain on your driveline components. Chain, gearbox etc.

Ill only ever really clutchless shift if im trying to wring the bejesus out of my bike. If thats the case, its a very easy thing to do. You simply go from full throttle to about 95% throttle, kick it in gear and back to full throttle. (95% throttle is really just a slight jolt of the wrist) Just really need to back off enough to unload the drivetrain.

The other way to shift up clutchless is to hold upwards pressure on the lever and let the fu$#er hit redline, bounce and keep going in the next gear. You dont need to back off the throttle as hittting the limiter has the same effect. Please note i DO NOT recommend this technique!!!!! :)

Clutchless downshifts are a bit harder to master but can be done easily enough. Again, they just require a very slight 'blip" of the throttle and she should be able to pop down a gear. Also again, ill only ever do this if im riding hard.

So basically, yeah you can do it, no it wont do damage to your bike (if done correctly) and yes it can be alot smoother than actually using a clutch!

Thankyou, and well said!!

[bambam]

Flat shiting is using the clutch but without backing off the throttle!



Dude!! Thats something else altogether!!! :):)

[VU_SS_UTE]

Dude!! Thats something else altogether!!! :):)


To me flat shifting is holding the accel/throttle flat and shifting, and thats what the call it on the V8 supercars when they shift but leave the accel pinned...

[JA SV8]

To me flat shifting is holding the accel/throttle flat and shifting, and thats what the call it on the V8 supercars when they shift but leave the accel pinned...

ill 2nd that.. i remember doing it in my old SV8 and scaring everyone in the car :P

[chrism697]

To me flat shifting is holding the accel/throttle flat and shifting, and thats what the call it on the V8 supercars when they shift but leave the accel pinned...
yeah that has always been my understanding of what "flat shifting" is

i remember when wheels or motor mag destroyed a bunch of XR6 turbo clutches when they 1st came out, they later said it was because they were flat shifting

[bambam]

Flat shiting is using the clutch but without backing off the throttle!

Try re-reading what you wrote. Carefully and slowly. SPELL it out if you have to......:)

[OPPYLOCK]

I use my clutch 95% of the time and only really use clutchless shifting on the odd blat to get a speed fix. Doesn't really offer enough benefit to bother with IMO.
On dirt bikes I was shown how to hold a higher gear and feather the clutch to get out some nasty corners quickly but it never did suit me.
On my roadie I feather the clutch quite a bit because it can be a bit grabby at lower revs.

[chrism697]

Try re-reading what you wrote. Carefully and slowly. SPELL it out if you have to......:)
hahaha i did not notice that at all (obviously)

[VU_SS_UTE]

Try re-reading what you wrote. Carefully and slowly. SPELL it out if you have to......:)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAAHA now I see. Bastard :)

[SLugg]

what sort of bike are you riding.

if its an off road bike its not for "noobs who want to look good" its for 99% of riders, the "noobs" tend to be the ones reaching for the clutch every shift

Im riding a gsx1400 and I dont need to clutchless change It offers very little advantage on the road , Ive ridden and raced motorcyles in both road and drag racing over some 35 years and have never felt the need to shift clutchless (my drag bike had an air shifter which killed the motor on change)
as for off road I have never done it and I cant see the benefit , anyone who is good with the clutch will not unsettle a bike in or out of a corner.

As for the SV8 flat changer , Id like to see that , V8 supercars can do it because the use h pattern sequential shifters , trying it on your road car would suggest to me whoever bought it would be getting GB troubles very soon

[klink]

If you really want to do it then thats fine but i personally wouldnt do it as it will put excessive strain on the det spring in the gear box. this aparently led to some early faults in some bikes. which may not be real noticable until such time as it lets go and kills your gear box on a road bike. I have been riding road bikes for 19years and grew up riding dirt bikes since the age of 7 and always use the clutch. guess age comes wisdom.

also know as the 2nd gear fault on some bikes.

If you know what your doing you can shift hard as you like for very liittle money, all you do is upgrade the springs in your clutch/ clutch basket (Slugg may be able to explain better) in the same way that alot of us upgrade stock clutch to the tex.

Alot of road riders.racers actually blip the throttle going down gears but still use the clutch.

V8 super cars can Flat shift as you call it as they use a differest style cog in their gear boxes allowing it do be done, if that was to be put in a car or bike it would be bloody noisey.

My Vote is do it if you have heaps of money to burn, otherwise use the clutch as on a public road you should not have the need to shift clutchless or flat shift and you possibly need to thing about what your doing.

as my dad always tells me you cant put an old head on young shoulders or life is a learning experience unfortunately some people dont learn.

[Road Warrior]

Well said Klink.

[chrism697]

Im riding a gsx1400 and I dont need to clutchless change It offers very little advantage on the road , Ive ridden and raced motorcyles in both road and drag racing over some 35 years and have never felt the need to shift clutchless (my drag bike had an air shifter which killed the motor on change)
as for off road I have never done it and I cant see the benefit , anyone who is good with the clutch will not unsettle a bike in or out of a corner.

As for the SV8 flat changer , Id like to see that , V8 supercars can do it because the use h pattern sequential shifters , trying it on your road car would suggest to me whoever bought it would be getting GB troubles very soon
its just faster, i understand on the road that just doesnt matter but on a motocross track it does. that half a second when you use the clutch to shift can be less if you dont use it, mid corner you shouldnt be shifting gear, and on exits using the clutch i find tends to release the power a little more abrubtly, which if the bike isnt directly upright makes it really easy to loose traction.

i have only ever met one or two decent racers that use the cutch to shift, the few coaches that i have used have also said "dont use the clutch to shift"
on a motocross track it is just the accepted way people ride, its what people are taught, its what pros do, its what veterans do and its what beginners do

and it may sound silly but at the end of a long moto pulling in the clutch makes "arm pump" a whole lot worse.....so i find it best just to use it for heavy braking and to fan it out of slow corners (especially on small bore bikes)

but like i said im only speaking from my experiances on a motocross track, in which case i see no reason to use it, we spend a lot more money on clutches than gear boxes, i have rarely seen gearboxes fail

[D Banger]

You don't need to use the clutch when upshifting a motorbike. The best way to do it is by having your toe on the gear lever and release throttle, add pressure to foot an it should go into gear nicely. not needed for normal commuting but when you do wheelies, changing gears with a clutch will end in tears whilst front wheel is in the air.

[aggerz]

Depends how fast you are going/need to go.
For me, on downshift almost always. 99.9%

Upshift. 50/50...If im keen and enjoying the ride it tends to be clutchless, however when im lazy and plodding along in traffic i use the clutch.
Even on a semi spirited take off from the lights i have a habbit of clutching 1-2, .. i find the change often too rough to not use the clutch unless its a balls to the wall take off.

[MANHYPERSS]

The best use for the clutch is to stand the bike up on the rear wheel while passing your mate at around a 100 to 160kmh. I always use my clutch to change gears, even when changing on the back wheel, and i often pick it up at 120kmh or so in second without clutching it then change 2 or 3 gears till i hit about 240 260 then drop it back to earth.
The only time i do not use the clutch is when i am being lazy, or coming though or into town and i sit up to stretch my back and i cant reach the clutch i will just brake and tap it down though the gears gently.

But after all that i think it is really a personal preference and i dont think you will do any harm to the bike if done correctly.

99 R1

[Crolly]

It is prefernce, but also some bikes are more capable of doing it then others. I clutchless up shift and down shift when getting in to things or being lazy. Having a slipper clutch for downshifting doesnt hurt either. But clutching up 2nd as manhyperss said is fun and even easier when you can power wheelie in 2nd and clutchless shift up into third.

[MANHYPERSS]

the r1 will pull up in second or third, but i just love clutching it up when beside mates catching them out and dragging them off on the back wheel :-) I only go as far as hitting the top of third shifting to forth for a short squirt then put her down, that is fast and far enough for me, i start to get orried i am pushing my limits and luck :-) I flip my 600 dirt bike at 140kmh in the bush 3 years ago and that hurt, getting a bit older and worried i might not take a good fall as well now