Did Holden pull the wool over our eyes?

[XR6T GEN]

Hi,

Im still dirty on holden for replacing the Supercharged 3.8 V6 with the SV6, alloytec 190 or now as its known as the 195.

all the magazines said yeah its better than the supercharged V6, 190kw vs 171kw. (never mentioned the torque).

Can we sort this out right now, lets admit the supercharged V6 is heaps better than the Alloytec 190. Low down torque the Supercharged V6 will cream it, 375nm vs 330nm and the supercharge V6 makes it all very very low. I reckon the 171kw is understated as well. They really pulled the wool over this time.. :spew:

[xploit]

Well i have a VE sv6, 195kw 3.6litre

Mate has a VY Calais Supercharged 3.8litre

Now, we have taken off more than once, and ill cream it everytime, from standstill 40/60/80/100...

Not once have i been beaten by any kind of ecotec... So, im not exactly sure what you mean when your talking about an ecotec creaming an alloytech...

Just doesnt happen.

Cheers,

Dave

[Redline]

Best thing Holden did was get rid of the Supercharged Six.....biggest pile of crap compared to the Alloytec 190.

[Mungrel]

I disagree,
The Ecotec was getting old, V6 drivers needed something to get excited about and IMO with the exception of FIT, no one really gave a rats about the ecotec.

Now all of a sudden with a new motor, there are people developing power up kits for them.
Classic example, Castle Hill Exhaust have made an OTRCAI for them, as well as an exhaust and tune package - something to my knowledge was unheard of with the ecotecs.

Good to give the v6 owners power packages.

[iloveholden]

Yeah the Ecotech was a pile of crap compare to the newer Alloytech. Mines a 175kw i beat my mate who has a supercharged ecotech VX s.

[XR6T GEN]

Hmmm, an alloytec owner saying this... Im not saying anything wrong with alloytec 195kw but Supercharged V6 will eat it for breakfast. The point im making is that its not a proper replacement.. (Alloytec is still good)

The supercharged V6 was a high 14 second sub 7 second car 0-100km/h standard. Just be honest about it, the alloytec is not.

I would happily trade 9% peak power for more 18% peak torque at heaps lower revs. Come on.

[Redline]

The supercharged V6 was a high 14 second sub 7 second car 0-100km/h standard. Just be honest about it, the alloytec is not.

haha.....yeah downhill

If owners of Alloytec say they are quicker than an S/C Ecotec (especially knowing people that own them or have driven one themselves).....i would be inclined to agree with them.

[XR6T GEN]

I know a new car salesman at holden. He swears black n blue the old supercharged V6 would hammer the SV6 having test driven both numerous times.. I know the Supercharged V6 runs out of puff but its deadly down low and midrange. Ive driven one.

SV6 is good too but more top end. (the sales guy took me for a spin in one) Overall I say the torque makes it the more effortless cruiser and quicker in 95% situations.

[XR6T GEN]

haha.....yeah downhill

If owners of Alloytec say they are quicker than an S/C Ecotec (especially knowing people that own them or have driven one themselves).....i would be inclined to agree with them.

Of course owners of Alloytec are gonna say that. they would argue they would beat Ls1's as well.

[VZ_V8]

my mate has a 175KW Storm ute with 20s and another one of my mates can beat him 3 times in a row, in his mums Mazda 3, which my ute will absolutely drop.....

[nang3]

fark the S/C must be a real slug then???
nah actually the car we had was just a VE stocker, not an SV6 so im assuming it would be slower than both?? that thing was slooooooooooooow!

[XR6T GEN]

Please dont be offended. Im trying to be diplomatic about this. Alloytec is a great engine but its not a worthy replacement for Supercharged V6... Agreed?

Thats all I wanted to point out, its been bothering me since its introduction

[GODSMACK]

my mate has a 175KW Storm ute with 20s and another one of my mates can beat him 3 times in a row, in his mums Mazda 3, which my ute will absolutely drop.....
Your mate needs to learn how to drive....

[XR6T GEN]

my mate has a 175KW Storm ute with 20s and another one of my mates can beat him 3 times in a row, in his mums Mazda 3, which my ute will absolutely drop.....

thats not the same motor we are talkin about.

[XR6T GEN]

Come on they are not. Not so long ago, holden was embarrassed that the supercharged V6 was quicker than its V8, as such there was a Supercharged V6 SS VT. They were screaming for the LS1 as the Holden V8 couldnt cut it..

But address the question... Why are we all defending the Alloytec 190??

[KPWISHN]

Why are we all defending the Alloytec 190??

We aren't, we like V8's.:)

[mickeyVX350]

Don't underestimate Alloytecs... Iused to have Alloytecs that I didn't care about (gov't supplied) although the initial shove isn't there, it does it's business more subtley.

Let me put it this way, if the Alloytec wasn't better, why is it still here, and still selling?

Another insightful thread from our blue Holden heresay expert!

[GODSMACK]

Come on they are not. Not so long ago, holden was embarrassed that the supercharged V6 was quicker than its V8, as such there was a Supercharged V6 SS VT. They were screaming for the LS1 as the Holden V8 couldnt cut it..

But address the question... Why are we all defending the Alloytec 190??
No different to today really, where the XR6T is quicker than the XR8... Holden were embarrased not so long ago, FORD are in that predicament now....

[Bearz]

Oh no he's back! I'm gonna need a drink before i read anymore of these threads!

[XR6T GEN]

No different to today really, where the XR6T is quicker than the XR8... Holden were embarrased not so long ago, FORD are in that predicament now....

I agree with you, no question about it. Ford should be embarrassed.

I reckon that a Supercharged V6 will dispatch a Alloytec 190 and a regular ecotec V6 VS series 147kw will dispatch the current alloytech 180kw. Holden are playing funny buggers with us and you guys are letting them take off with the loot. If anything by defending the alloytec your helping the theif carry the loot out.

You will be pleased to know that I was part of the alloytec marketing team which viewed all the ads and help choose the right ad. before the engine came out.

If your tuner said to you, hey ill take 18% torque from you (take your midrange away) and give you 9% power right up at 6500rpm what would you say?

thats what holden did when they sacked the supercharged V6 and employed the Alloytec 190. this is a fact.

[Danv8]

Meh!
A mate of mine has a VY2 Calais with a supercharged 6 and its pushing out 200RWKW after some mods which not too shabby. But then again it aint an eight!.

[Steve-LS2]

I agree with you, no question about it. Ford should be embarrassed.

I reckon that a Supercharged V6 will dispatch a Alloytec 190 and a regular ecotec V6 VS series 147kw will dispatch the current alloytech 180kw. Holden are playing funny buggers with us and you guys are letting them take off with the loot. If anything by defending the alloytec your helping the theif carry the loot out.

You will be pleased to know that I was part of the alloytec marketing team which viewed all the ads and help choose the right ad. before the engine came out.

If your tuner said to you, hey ill take 18% torque from you (take your midrange away) and give you 9% power right up at 6500rpm what would you say?

thats what holden did when they sacked the supercharged V6 and employed the Alloytec 190. this is a fact.


IF you worked there......then you would know that the ecotec range of engines no longer complied with EURO IIII emissions and therefore for the release of the VE the motor was redesigned so it would comply, mainly because of export potential and don't forget the fishermans bend engine plant doesn't just make motors for Holden, they export more engines than Holden fit locally.

[XR6T GEN]

IF you worked there......then you would know that the ecotec range of engines no longer complied with EURO IIII emissions and therefore for the release of the VE the motor was redesigned so it would comply, mainly because of export potential and don't forget the fishermans bend engine plant doesn't just make motors for Holden, they export more engines than Holden fit locally.

thats it... Its an emissions thing not because it was a worthy replacement.

[Steve-LS2]

thats it... Its an emissions thing not because it was a worthy replacement.


So how exaclty did they pull the wool over anyones eyes???

Lower emissions, more efficient, quieter, a little less torque, a better transmission to go with it, improved diff ratios, bigger wheels.


People don't buy HSV's because of the motor, they buy them because of their heritage and their options list.

[red_hot]

**** emissions.
It really makes me want to stab Al Gore.
I mean - he may have a point and all, but you don't see me burning my bra over the fact that a few penguins will need to learn to swim a bit better.
For ****'s sake - it's not going to end until we're all peddling vacuum-cleaner powered Flintstone cars.
:soap:
Make the most of the V8s fellas... Don't see them sticking around much longer with everyone having a whinge about emissions.
On a lighter note - the aforementioned Flintstone cars - Can someone help me?
Would they run better MAFLESS?

[vxclubsport569]

I hate to say it but I agree with you

It was commonly known that the Supercharged figures from Holden were watered down so as to not threaten the V8 sales

I've driven both, though never owned either and I have to say that even the VS II Supercharged Calais with its 165kw before increased to 171kW in VT form, would give the current 195kW a serious run for its money

But the other stuff about heritage etc.. is a load of garbage

[XR6T GEN]

I dont have a calais S/C? Ive never heard of one of those things breaking down though.

It aint a stupid thread if people would provide intelligent answers to the question. rebutt me. 18% more torque at lower rpm speaks for itself.

[Steve-LS2]

I dont have a calais S/C? Ive never heard of one of those things breaking down though.

It aint a stupid thread if people would provide intelligent answers to the question. rebutt me. 18% more torque at lower rpm speaks for itself.

You will only get intelligent answers if people actually give a SH!t about the question, obviously not many people do.

your figures aren't even correct anyway, sure you worked on the Ad campaign....

Ecotec - Supercharged

'V' configuration. Cold air intake. OHV design with cross flow cylinder heads. Low friction technology. 'Hot wire' air mass metering. Sequential fuel injection. High energy distributorless, ignition. Twin knock-control sensors. Computer diagnostics. Electric cooling fan. Stainless steel exhaust. High flow air cleaner. Low restriction dual exhaust. Electronic control supercharger. Triple Coils. Cross-bolted main bearings. 4 bolt.

Compression ratio: 8.5 : 1
Maximum power: 171 kW @ 5200 rpm (on PULP (Premium Unleaded))
Maximum torque: 375 Nm @ 3000 rpm (on PULP)
Recommended Fuel: 95 Octane (PULP)
Alternative Fuel: 91 Octane (ULP)
Supercharged V6 Ratio: 3.08:1
Supercharged V6 Automatic City / Highway (PULP): 13.0 / 7.6 (L/100km)

Alloytec 190

3.6L 60-degree Double Overhead Cam V6 with 4 valves per cylinder. Sequential fuel injection. High energy, distributorless ignition. Twin knock-control sensors with individual cylinder adaptive control. Onboard diagnostics. Electric cooling fan. Stainless steel exhaust. Electronic throttle control. Aluminium alloy block and cylinder heads. Low restriction air intake. Aluminium oil pan. Continuously variable camshaft phasing for inlet and exhaust cams. Variable intake manifold. Coil on plug. Cross-bolted main bearings. 6 bolt.

Maximum power: 190 kW @ 6500 rpm
Maximum torque: 340 Nm @ 3200 rpm before 31/12/05, 335 Nm @ 3200 rpm after 1/1/06
Recommended Fuel: 91 Octane (ULP)
Alloytec 190 V6 Ratio: 2.87:1
V6 190kW Automatic Sedan: 11.4 (L/100km)

Now if anyone really cares here are the figures for a proper comparison

[Carby650]

Mate don't really know your history on this forum or any others but the question is really a mute one.
Did they or didn't they?
Maybe, but at the end of the day the engine had to be changed due to emission regs.

[C4B]

I take it this tripe is your idea of pulling your head in after your 1 week ban.

I'll say goodbye now, in case I don't log back on before you get booted for good.....

[jasper361]

Some people have too much time on their hands... Thank god he's moved camp!

[-shady-]

My parents have owned a sv6 for a few years now and i have to say its a pile of crap IMO, i would say the auto is the biggest let down,
i would rather ride my push bike

[Phizzle]

Someone talked about Holden being embarrassed by the s/c V6 intruding on V8 times. Remember wwwaaaayyyyyyy back to the VL turbo days (Holy shit it's been 20 odd years?!!!!). When released the VL Turbo was quicker than the VL SS. And it was a Nissan motor too :hide:

I'm not sure what the point of this thread is exactly, but I think I'll just put this lymric in for the hell of it. Seems to fit the thread starter :teach:

Roses are red, Dafodills are golden
Always have sex in the back of a Holden
If you don't like it, or if you get bored
Turn homosexual and f*ck in a Ford

[ilovebeer]

The Ecotec has a long history, with a humble begining.It went from N/A to F/I. The Alloytec `will evolve` with DI and talk FI and will become worthy. IF HOLDEN gave us everything all at once, then there is nothing to look forward to. So sitback, drive your fouckd, sorry cant spell frod, and the WORTHY replacement will come. PS...I remember very well spending 9 HRS at HSV`s expence driving the XU6,CLUBSPORT,SENATOR and GTS around Sandown Park, the XU6 {supercharged V6} was not as good as YOU might think..... I know the Alloytec is a far better engine with farrrr more scope.....Worthy and allready here..............Ross...

[DuffMan]

I assume you have some solid data to substantiate your claims other than your oft repeated line, "18% more low down torque"? So you've done logged acceleration testing in cars with both motors then?

Going by your theory, wouldn't a scania truck with a 12 litre six and monsterous low down torque beat a s/c ecotec?

You asked this question having already made your mind up as to what you think the correct answer is, then completely dismissed anyone elses opinions that disagree with yours.


So in conclusion,

Supercharged V6 is the better motor, 18% more torque at lower revs
Nobody concluded that but you(Before you asked the question aswell). This is all just heresay opinions unless you have back to back acceleration figures performed in a controlled environment.

And the final nail in the coffin, YOU have strayed off topic. The thread topic you created is which is the better motor, not the fastest. The alloytec is smoother, more efficient, quieter and more refined, which = better engine. Not that i care anyway, i have a V8:)

[Alister]

Someone talked about Holden being embarrassed by the s/c V6 intruding on V8 times. Remember wwwaaaayyyyyyy back to the VL turbo days (Holy shit it's been 20 odd years?!!!!). When released the VL Turbo was quicker than the VL SS. And it was a Nissan motor too :hide:


No such thing as a VL SS mate. The sports model was the Calais Turbo, the VL V8 models were always marketed as a better choice for towing.

[paul05]

I assume you have some solid data to substantiate your claims other than your oft repeated line, "18% more low down torque"? So you've done logged acceleration testing in cars with both motors then?

Going by your theory, wouldn't a scania truck with a 12 litre six and monsterous low down torque beat a s/c ecotec?

You asked this question having already made your mind up as to what you think the correct answer is, then completely dismissed anyone elses opinions that disagree with yours.


Nobody concluded that but you(Before you asked the question aswell). This is all just heresay opinions unless you have back to back acceleration figures performed in a controlled environment.

And the final nail in the coffin, YOU have strayed off topic. The thread topic you created is which is the better motor, not the fastest. The alloytec is smoother, more efficient, quieter and more refined, which = better engine. Not that i care anyway, i have a V8:)
more efficient ? not than my vy ,my sister inlaws vz cant get close to my fuel aconomy on a long run (sydney to coffs and back)but our daily driving is much different,my vy is at least 1.5 lt to every 100 better city and miles better country driving.driven both and power wise you can't tell the difference but the vz is smoother all round.our orion craps on all the said v6's in all quarters.

[xploit]

I know a new car salesman at holden. He swears black n blue the old supercharged V6 would hammer the SV6 having test driven both numerous times.. I know the Supercharged V6 runs out of puff but its deadly down low and midrange. Ive driven one.

SV6 is good too but more top end. (the sales guy took me for a spin in one) Overall I say the torque makes it the more effortless cruiser and quicker in 95% situations.

XR6...

you are talking to people here that have the cars your talking about...

I owned a supercharged ecotec VY S pack.. and now i have a 195kw alloytech, and my mates have supercharged ecotecs and my VE alloytech will flog them black and blue...

i just dont know what to say to someone whos so naive and is posting up because of what a dealer told them and swearing its true over that of people who own the cars... :confused::confused:

This thread is shit...
:vpo::vpo::vpo:

[reapz]

I believe its just the titles that you keep posting in a holden forum that incites this kind of behaviour. Can I post in the ford forums "the first 4 cars I had were fords we're shit and they fell apart, so I've had 3 holdens ever since", and wait for the fireworks? the s/c ecotec was a good motor, I'm sure given time, similar to the crossflow 250's with a turbo over 20 years ago, with the alloytec we should see good results too. If you're really having a ADD episode call up holden, tell them you think its a conspiracy, and feel satisfied but empty at the same time. :)

remember its a ls1 forum...

[iloveholden]

Yeah i agree, shut this thread it means nothing.

My 2c is that the Ecotechs were noisy farkers and they were always critized for being slow. These new alloytechs aint that fast of the line but seem to do the job and they will evolve to become a decent V6.

What 6 was used in the Torana concept?

[vyss2ute]

No such thing as a VL SS mate. The sports model was the Calais Turbo, the VL V8 models were always marketed as a better choice for towing.

UM.....What the hells this than?
http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/hdt/vl/images/vl-ssgapp01.jpg
HDT VL SS

[DuffMan]

never mind.

[holden6.0]

havnt you guys learned to ignore xr6t gen;s posts yet - btw xr6t gen stop taking ya laptop to da toilet flush yr crap instead of typing it

[Phizzle]

UM.....What the hells this than?
http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/hdt/vl/images/vl-ssgapp01.jpg
HDT VL SS

Good shit, saved me having to search google for a pic :1peek: Doesn't matter, probably would have been overloaded with XR6T trying in vain to google up valid, accurate points google

[vxclubsport569]

UM.....What the hells this than?
http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/hdt/vl/images/vl-ssgapp01.jpg
HDT VL SS

Just a friendly tip Alistair, I think you have been proven wrong mate....

I would do a GOOGLE search before you say a car doens't exist... especially when the car is older than your age

[VIPER6]

Who cares? V6's are gay. :lol:

I'll second that:headbang::thumbsup:

:sux::fewl::sleep::shiner::flip2::rocket::banghead ::biggun::slap::guns::thump::astavista::machinegun ::kapow::box::outlaw::kill::nutkick::bash:

[ti0350]

V6's are Gay.... I'll third that...

I had a lot of cars to choose from when i was buying my car last year..
I had a V6 VS, so I test drove S/C V6's and Alloytecs my VS could not not keep up with any of them..
I thought the alloytec was better then the S/C V6 but when I thought about it the S/C V6 and the Alloytec were absolutely crap compared to an LS1 which is why I bought a VYSS....

[vyss2ute]

Why is it that all of XR6T's started threads get locked or just turn to absolutehttp://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h294/greyskull81/AnimatedPooSteamingCLR.gif?

[jerrel]

i own an xu6...king of the supercharged 6s ;)
my car is ment to be 180kw 380nm from the factory..
i can say with complete confidence that it shits all over a vz sv6...also the old 5l v8s...and 350z's..

..i enjoy it..
im pleased with it for a first car :)

[ryno]

To be honest, for its day the SC Ecotech was good but it couldn't go on forever (like the Ford I6). Just because Holden didn't replace it with another Forced induction motor doesn't mean its crap. It just means Holden were repositioning themselves in the market.

Let me ask the same question to you. Do you think Ford are pulling the wool over your eyes by planning to replace the current motor with the Duratec 3.5L V6....

At the end of the day it has nothing to do with pulling the wool over anyones eyes. They sell a product and will do what they think is right to get market share..

[AFAR]

1. V6's are gay.
2. Alloytec > ecotec/ sc ecotec
3. Your threads suck.

[smokiebbear]

No offence intended here xr6t gen but everytime i read one of your threads i cringe. You are narrowminded and if people dont agree with what you say you argue till you are blue in the face. Most of your threads start arguments because you try and wage war on here. Stop bashing the Holden brand as it seems in all your threads you do. Yes i like Ford as well but i stay away from their forum because i drive a Holden and i think YOU in particular should stay away from ls1 because i think we are all sick of logging in to see a shit fight you have started every night. If i myself wouldn't get 1 weeks suspension from here i would start a thread/poll titled "Lets ban xr6t gen from ls1 forever"

I'm sorry to say but even though the world may not be a nicer place if this happened at least ls1.com would.:flipoff:

cheers - smokie

p.s to the mods i'm sorry if i have offended but i think i am one of many that has had enough of this!

[whitels1ss]

No offence intended here xr6t gen but everytime i read one of your threads i cringe. You are narrowminded and if people dont agree with what you say you argue till you are blue in the face. Most of your threads start arguments because you try and wage war on here. Stop bashing the Holden brand as it seems in all your threads you do. Yes i like Ford as well but i stay away from their forum because i drive a Holden and i think YOU in particular should stay away from ls1 because i think we are all sick of logging in to see a shit fight you have started every night. If i myself wouldn't get 1 weeks suspension from here i would start a thread/poll titled "Lets ban xr6t gen from ls1 forever"

I'm sorry to say but even though the world may not be a nicer place if this happened at least ls1.com would.:flipoff:
cheers - smokie
p.s to the mods i'm sorry if i have offended but i think i am one of many that has had enough of this!

I Agree with that also

[JezzaB]

Your still spouting crap and post whoring? I clicked on the post purely out of shock horror and surprise that you are still here. And also see how many ppl have posted in this thread about your crap, as in the others....

Just waited 2 1/2 mins of my life. Lesson learnt

Jez

[Alister]

Ahh sorry, I was wrong. There was no 1988 VL SS model, only a 1986 and 1987. Also, isn't the proper title VL SS Group A? Only came in manual with 137kw and 345nm? I didn't realise they existed as they are a HDT release, not a standard Holden. Sorry guys.

[cholo]

You guys just cant help it but reply to XRT. lol absolute cracker.

[smokiebbear]

Ahh sorry, I was wrong. There was no 1988 VL SS model, only a 1986 and 1987. Also, isn't the proper title VL SS Group A? Only came in manual with 137kw and 345nm?

As for the title thats just being petty. There was a vl ss regardless if it was badged GroupA it was still an ss.

The VL SS was the most horn VL ever made, yes even better than the Walky IMO. I always dreamed of owning one. I'd give my left nut for 1 of them.

p.s VL SS Group A is written the same as VX SS Series II or VE SS etc

it's still an SS :D

cheers - matt

[Evman]

i just dont know what to say to someone whos so naive and is posting up because of what a dealer told them and swearing its true over that of people who own the cars...


When I was looking around to buy my current car, I was actually in the market for a VY SV8...I asked a Holden dealer if they had any in the lot, and he said, and I quote, "The SV8 didn't come out in VYs, but here's an SS we can do for you..."

I walked out as soon as he said that. Salesmen will say anything, which is why they're the least most trusted of all professions! :)

[caz375]

Just as an example of the performance levels of the two cars...

XU6 performance figures, directly from the HSV Press Release...


These extra reserves built into the Holden supercharged engine gave HSV the opportunity to extract worthwhile power increases while adding a sportier, free-revving feel for the XU6 application without compromising durability. The result sees the XU6 travel from 0-100km/h in 7.5 seconds and cover the 400 metres in 15.50 seconds.



VE SV6 performance figures,from Wheels mag November 2006

SV6 (M6) 0 - 100 kph in 7.4 sec / 0 - 400 metres in 15.5 sec


Couldn't be bothered trying to find the in gear comparos, roll on acceleration etc, but both seem to be pretty lineball in a straight line and i know what i'd rather out of Alloytech and Ecotech ;)

[vyss2ute]

Ahh sorry, I was wrong. There was no 1988 VL SS model, only a 1986 and 1987. Also, isn't the proper title VL SS Group A? Only came in manual with 137kw and 345nm? I didn't realise they existed as they are a HDT release, not a standard Holden. Sorry guys.

Well, its a bit confusing but technically there is a 1988 VL SS. Its "proper" title is a HSV VL SS Group A SV, being the Walkinshaw.

[smokiebbear]

Just as an example of the performance levels of the two cars...

XU6 performance figures, directly from the HSV Press Release...





VE SV6 performance figures,from Wheels mag November 2006

SV6 (M6) 0 - 100 kph in 7.4 sec / 0 - 400 metres in 15.5 sec


Couldn't be bothered trying to find the in gear comparos, roll on acceleration etc, but both seem to be pretty lineball in a straight line and i know what i'd rather out of Alloytech and Ecotech ;)

We all know, including yourself IMO that you'd rather a V8:D Yeeeee Har!

[caz375]

Oh so true:bow: It'll happen one day, that's for sure.:rofl:

[smokiebbear]

Oh so true:bow: It'll happen one day, that's for sure.:rofl:

If all else fails and your ever on the gold coast look me up i'll take you for a spin:jester:

p.s i do believe 60kmh is more fun sideways than it is in a straight line though:D

[caz375]

Will do, lol. Looking at getting into one sometime next year, it's been way too long between 8's. Last one i owned was a HZ 253 4 speed :jester:

[smokiebbear]

Damn, the power difference is huge. I had a 308 torrie that had some nice work done to it but compared to the new v8's it was a brick.

[Alister]

Wasn't meaning to be petty mate, I was just checking if I had the right name. Nice looking cars, good to see they got more power than the standard 5.0L upsize. Redbook doesn't list a 1988 VL SS of any sort so I thought there might be no 1988 SS but I can see there is after looking around a bit more. Thanks for the clarification guys.

[macca_779]

I can't believe im actually replying to one of your threads.. But I actually do agree the S/C V6 was a hell of a lot gruntier engine than the alloyanchor. Those that reckon the HFV6 is actually quick.. common get your hand off it, they are slugs. My old 5L would hand them their arse every time. Something that it couldn't do nearly as easily to a S/C V6. But on the other hand, if you shoved 6psi (I think thats what the S/C V6 ran if I recall) the alloyanchor would become much easier to live with.

[ryno]

We all know, including yourself IMO that you'd rather a V8:D Yeeeee Har!


hehe. Give me 6 litres over 6 cylinders any day...:yup:

[vxSSilver]

I had a vx s super6 and it was a great car, very torquey!

completely stock and brand new it did a 15.4

with just exhaust and boost to 10psi did a 14.2

thats the same as a stock VX SS

Pretty sure a VE SV6 does a 16.1 in the motor mag is it ???

but because of the torque and where most the power was, traffic light races to 100 the super6 always wins.

I agree no one really did bother doing much with the super6, and fit really only got into it towards the end before the alloypoo came in.

Ive since had an auto VX SS which was shit compared to the S, and now a VY SS M6.

Obviously the 8s sound better, and the manual is alot more fun, but if i was after an auto again id be thinking hard about a 5.7 or super6

[Danv8]

I can't believe im actually replying to one of your threads.. But I actually do agree the S/C V6 was a hell of a lot gruntier engine than the alloyanchor. Those that reckon the HFV6 is actually quick.. common get your hand off it, they are slugs. My old 5L would hand them their arse every time. Something that it couldn't do nearly as easily to a S/C V6. But on the other hand, if you shoved 6psi (I think thats what the S/C V6 ran if I recall) the alloyanchor would become much easier to live with.

Dunno the alloytech in my rodeo is rather quick but then again it has decent gearing.

[redvu]

hehe. Give me 6 litres over 6 cylinders any day...:yup:
ill 2nd that!!

[HSV271]

The sad thing is that in the last 3 pages of posts.... the person who started this thread has not replied once.

:lmao:

[smokiebbear]

It won't be long now ...... :lock::closed:

[vyssbeast]

I've driven both .. i'd take the s/c 6 over the alloytec anyday

ill admit ive only driven the 175kw alloytec, but to even it up the s/c 6 is my old mans statesman so im sure the extra weight evens it up (the alloytec not being 190kw) and let me tell ya, i'd take the stato *you can even hear the charger whine*

[BigFella]

lol another interesting thread. i think XR6T spends more time on the holden forums then the ford ones...





**yes i sell hondas and i should be on the ricer forums but i still own a holden v8, had an ls1 and have been here since 2002 lol Im saying i love my V8's still.:1peek:

[Devil CV8]

If the super was so good, why didn't the CV6 Monaro sell well.




That being said. now it's time for a community service announcement.


STOP FEEDING THE TROLLAND HE MAY GO AWAY

[smokiebbear]

lol another interesting thread. i think XR6T spends more time on the holden forums then the ford ones...





**yes i sell hondas and i should be on the ricer forums but i still own a holden v8, had an ls1 and have been here since 2002 lol Im saying i love my V8's still.:1peek:

We love having you here BigFella at least your not always takin the piss out of Holden.:bow: I admit they are not perfect but as we all know this is an enthusiasts forum not a place to come and shit on the Holden brand every time you post like our mate xr6t gen. Like WTF is going on with the thread name? Could have been worded so much better .... ie: What ever happened to the Supercharged 6 ? or something like that but noooooo he chose a title that is obviously taking a piss weak shot at Holden from the get go, as if they were trying to be sneaky and that affected him how? I didn't know xr6's had Holden motors in them.

[GODSMACK]

i own an xu6...king of the supercharged 6s ;)
my car is ment to be 180kw 380nm from the factory..
i can say with complete confidence that it shits all over a vz sv6...also the old 5l v8s...and 350z's..

..i enjoy it..
im pleased with it for a first car :) Based on the 0-100 and quarter mile times released by HSV as stated earlier in this thread, ur XU6 is not quicker than the 350z, stock for stock...

[XR6T GEN]

There seems to be a fair amount of support for both the super6 and the Alloytec 190. There are those who are honest on this forum and admit the super6 kills the alloytec 190 and there are the SV6 drivers on here that think the alloytec is better.

The point of this thread is that the alloytec although its a good motor is not a worthy replacement for the super 6. The super6 was that good they even made a HSV version (XU6), made an SS Super 6 even a monaro super 6. what about the Alloytec 190? Nothing. Even Holden admit they tried to pull the wool over our eyes

At the time of release they made it out that the alloytec 190 trumps the super 6 which i didnt. Thats what i call pulling the wool over our eyes.

[GODSMACK]

There seems to be a fair amount of support for both the super6 and the Alloytec 190. There are those who are honest on this forum and admit the super6 kills the alloytec 190 and there are the SV6 drivers on here that think the alloytec is better.

The point of this thread is that the alloytec although its a good motor is not a worthy replacement for the super 6. The super6 was that good they even made a HSV version (XU6), made an SS Super 6 even a monaro super 6. what about the Alloytec 190? Nothing. Even Holden admit they tried to pull the wool over our eyes
At the time of release they made it out that the alloytec 190 trumps the super 6 which i didnt. Thats what i call pulling the wool over our eyes.

Can you post a link to where Holden admit to pulling the wool over our eyes.

[XR6T GEN]

Its in their actions...

When The supercharged V6 was the current motor, they had it in Monaro, SS, HSV. The magazines were quoting 15.0 quarter mile. Ive even got a magazine where motor did a 14.7 in a stock supercharged V6 (VS Calais).

The the Alloytec 190 comes out, the magazines all said its got more power than the "wheezy" supercharged V6. Never did they line them up or mention the word torque.. All of a sudden the magazines started quoting different numbers for the Super 6 (15.8) to make the Alloytec appear faster at (15.5). We all know the magazines are going to make holdens new product appear better with some arm twisting by holden. Dont make me post up an article by holden on supercharged V6 and then do a backflip when Alloytec comes out.

Do we see the alloytec in the HSV stable, in a monaro or an SS?? So is it a worthy replacement? Come on take the beer goggles off.

[CSP]

There seems to be a fair amount of support for both the super6 and the Alloytec 190.

Just curious why you keep referring to the Alloytec 190. You do realise the latest version of the Alloytec is actually the 195 (i.e. the VE has 5 more fwkw than the VZ).

And You need to be banned from LS1 too IMHO. This is nothing more than a trolling post (and you got what you wanted as seen in the amount of responses). There is no way a stock SC Ecotec is going to beat either the 190 or 195 Alloytec in stock form.


Do we see the alloytec in the HSV stable, in a monaro or an SS?? So is it a worthy replacement? Come on take the beer goggles off.

Um... The SC V6 VT SS's and HSVs were the lowest selling EVER! Hence they were dropped almost as quickly as they were released. There isn't a market for them - simple. People buying a HSV want a V8.

[XR6T GEN]

Just curious why you keep referring to the Alloytec 190. You do realise the latest version of the Alloytec is actually the 195 (i.e. the VE has 5 more fwkw than the VZ).

And You need to be banned from LS1 too IMHO. This is nothing more than a trolling post (and you got what you wanted as seen in the amount of responses). There is no way a stock SC Ecotec is going to beat either the 190 or 195 Alloytec in stock form.


How would you know? Because its the VE, have you read some of the posts above? have you driven either? This is a general forum? Why isnt this thread within the guidelines?

[Bravotwozero]

How would you know? Because its the VE, have you read some of the posts above? have you driven either? This is a general forum? Why isnt this thread within the guidelines?

As far as I'm concerned the Alloytech is a better donk than the old emotec. Smoother, quiter and more efficient. As for what is quicker, who really gives a damn. At the end of the day, it powers a 4 door family sedan. If you want performance, simply choose the 270KW 6.0!

And for the record I have driven both. Have you?
I'm surprised you even care. You're clearly a one eyed Ford fan and will never buy any Commodore variant so what are you trying to prove? :stick:

[Steve-LS2]

He's BACK!!!!

[Covers]

you need to compare like for like. SC 6 v a NA 6 cmon it is like comparing the 5.7L with the 6L or a NA 5.7 with a SC 5.7

[PBoB]

Its in their actions...

When The supercharged V6 was the current motor, they had it in Monaro, SS, HSV. The magazines were quoting 15.0 quarter mile. Ive even got a magazine where motor did a 14.7 in a stock supercharged V6 (VS Calais).

The the Alloytec 190 comes out, the magazines all said its got more power than the "wheezy" supercharged V6. Never did they line them up or mention the word torque.. All of a sudden the magazines started quoting different numbers for the Super 6 (15.8) to make the Alloytec appear faster at (15.5). We all know the magazines are going to make holdens new product appear better with some arm twisting by holden. Dont make me post up an article by holden on supercharged V6 and then do a backflip when Alloytec comes out.

Do we see the alloytec in the HSV stable, in a monaro or an SS?? So is it a worthy replacement? Come on take the beer goggles off.

Can't say I've ever seen a 3.8L Supercharged 6 in an SS mate.

And I think you'll find that Holden don't do any arm twisting to get their product a better rap.

[Bravotwozero]

Can't say I've ever seen a 3.8L Supercharged 6 in an SS mate.

And I think you'll find that Holden don't do any arm twisting to get their product a better rap.

VT SS was available with a super 6.

[Steve-LS2]

VT SS was available with a super 6.

they probably only sold about 8, hence why people think they were never made.

Was it VTII or VTI?

If it was VTI then it would have almost had more power than the 5 litre of the time, so my guess is they would have made it an option on the VTII, but why would you buy an SS with a super6 instead of an LS1???

[XR6T GEN]

you need to compare like for like. SC 6 v a NA 6 cmon it is like comparing the 5.7L with the 6L or a NA 5.7 with a SC 5.7


No its not, it was a direct replacement in the Commodore S, costed the same. Of course it can be compared. Holden stopped the Super 6 and replaced it with the Alloytech 190. So if someone came in (holden) and took your 50 inch plasma and brought back a 34cm audiovox tv, would you be happy about it? You would say, hey if you take it, bring one back as good or better.

[Bravotwozero]

No its not, it was a direct replacement in the Commodore S, costed the same. Of course it can be compared. Holden stopped the Super 6 and replaced it with the Alloytech 190. So if someone came in (holden) and took your 50 inch plasma and brought back a 34cm audiovox tv, would you be happy about it? You would say, hey if you take it, bring one back as good or better.

Pretty pathetic analogy. I don't see Holden sneaking out and swapping people's charged emotec for alloytechs. If you don't like the replacement for the charged motor then don't buy the car.

[CSP]

How would you know? Because its the VE, have you read some of the posts above? have you driven either?

I have driven both and currently own a VE 195kw V6 Alloytech.




Why isnt this thread within the guidelines?

Because it is pointless and trolling!

[Steve-LS2]

No its not, it was a direct replacement in the Commodore S, costed the same. Of course it can be compared. Holden stopped the Super 6 and replaced it with the Alloytech 190. So if someone came in (holden) and took your 50 inch plasma and brought back a 34cm audiovox tv, would you be happy about it? You would say, hey if you take it, bring one back as good or better.

You were not the designer of the either engine, you have not owned cars with both, you may not have even driven cars with both, you make ridiculous assumptions that the S6 has 18% more low down torque than the Alloytec and can't even substantiate it.

I posted the figures in an earlier post and the actual difference between peak torque on each engine is 10.66%.

The ecotec was also a very old design and didn't comply with emissions targets.

So i put this question to you, oh high and mighty decider of all things in this world -

If you were running a multi million dollar company and you had a 25 year old engine design that no longer complied with emissions regs and would cost millions in development to make it comply WITHOUT the opportunity to export it because OS markets want twin or quad cam engines OR sign a deal with your parent company which would see the development of a new motor in a local plant by local designers that can be utilised for 10 or more different applications especially exporting them all over the world, but as a by product lose a bit of torque, but improve efficiency, noise and overall cost effectiveness, what would you choose????

I would choose the financially sustainable option that maintined jobs and kept the bottom line down, while providing a sound platform for future development and reliability which continues to drive brand success and higher profits.

I'm pretty sure Holden took the second option, and now guess what Ford are doing....dropping the locally built made and distributed I6 because the can't sell them and they will be bringing in the Duratec 3.5 V6.

I hope to see another post from you, should you not be banned yet, that says ...Did Ford pull the woll over our eyes???:bawl:

[VTSSDUDE]

Umm hasn't there been a few posts already saying that the Alloytec 190 eats the Super6s from standing starts all the way through the ranges?

[ROBEEE]

this is funny i have just read 8 pages and the only problem with the sv6 is the diff gearing put it the same as the super 6's and they are 100% better.

I have had a 5l with cam and heads and a super 6 and i have a alloytech 175 it has been tuned and it is way better than the super 6 and 5l.

The only thing with the alloytechs is their initial take off and the torque management is a pain in the ass but once it is tuned correctly it is so much of a huge difference.

[Mungrel]

Thankyou Steve-LS2!! :bow:

[XR6T GEN]

I disagree, the whinger up (must be a SV6 driver) top says there is a 10.66% difference peak torque, im talking down low not peak torque. See how he is bodgy with the way he compares. One is at 3000rpm the other at 5000rpm.

Who am I to compare, Im the most important person comrad whinger, I am the CONSUMER!!!!!

I bet Holden will listen to me more than you if I flop out some cash and said consumer wants Supercharged 6, than you who will stand there flopping out something else and dribble about how they should compare peak torque no matter where in the rev range its produced.

[CSP]

Who am I to compare, Im the most important person comrad whinger, I am the CONSUMER!!!!!

No you aren't - you drive a Ford!


I bet Holden will listen to me more than you if I flop out some cash and said consumer wants Supercharged 6

I'll take that bet! Bet they won't! :D As has been said, Holden have already tried - and failed with a Supercharged 6.

Twin Turbo is a maybe though...

[UCNUNV]

I disagree, the whinger up (must be a SV6 driver) top says there is a 10.66% difference peak torque, im talking down low not peak torque. See how he is bodgy with the way he compares. One is at 3000rpm the other at 5000rpm.

Who am I to compare, Im the most important person comrad whinger, I am the CONSUMER!!!!!

I bet Holden will listen to me more than you if I flop out some cash and said consumer wants Supercharged 6, than you who will stand there flopping out something else and dribble about how they should compare peak torque no matter where in the rev range its produced.

Yeah Holden will see one guy with cash for a car and build and engineer a super6 just for you at the expense of millions of dollars.

I dont see why you are arguing, the 190/195 beats the Super6 hands down, and thats with a massive disadvantage with the rediculas diff gears Holden gave them.

Your last thread that got deleted I thought you where hard done by not knowing what a troll you actually are, now I see why the forum bags on you constantly!

[XR6T GEN]

Yeah Holden will see one guy with cash for a car and build and engineer a super6 just for you at the expense of millions of dollars.

I dont see why you are arguing, the 190/195 beats the Super6 hands down, and thats with a massive disadvantage with the rediculas diff gears Holden gave them.

Your last thread that got deleted I thought you where hard done by not knowing what a troll you actually are, now I see why the forum bags on you constantly!

Lets not argue, Im trying to be fair. I just cant understand how people can be so one sided. I dont know what happened to that thread? It was true and honest review but the ogres came and talked trash, not my fault.

[hsv_wagon]

1-the red vl pictured is a ss GROUP A not just an ss.
2- alloytechs are gutless even if you rev the crap out of them
3-emotec super 6's are crap too.
4-5l is/was better than both of them,and its been proven time and time again in the real world.
5-i cant belive i read this crap
6- i sold a vu ss to buy a vs 5l cause it towed alot better and has heaps more low down power (both were stock)
7-this thread is crap :rofl:

[UCNUNV]

I agree XR6T, your VE SSV review wasnt a bad thread, but it got out of hand because people are sick of your other threads like this one.

Its not a case or arguing, its a case that you have given your opinion, and people in a better position (owners of the cars your talking about) have said you are wrong. Yes another boosted 6 would be cool, but that doesnt mean the old engine is better purely because its boosted. It was a noisy, fuel burning underperforming engine with poor emissions.

[smokiebbear]

Who cares about 6's! If you want performance get an 8.

Enough!

[XR6T GEN]

I agree XR6T, your VE SSV review wasnt a bad thread, but it got out of hand because people are sick of your other threads like this one.

Its not a case or arguing, its a case that you have given your opinion, and people in a better position (owners of the cars your talking about) have said you are wrong. Yes another boosted 6 would be cool, but that doesnt mean the old engine is better purely because its boosted. It was a noisy, fuel burning underperforming engine with poor emissions.

Ok so how do i get the monkey off my back. Whatever thread I start I get the ogres on my door trying to pick a fight. Cant they just answer the question and if its debateable prove me wrong not just go to town with the insults. They target my threads. If they throw a haymaker I throw one back at them and they forever quote me on things.

[CharlieDontSurf]

Just read the entire thread. I dont know why.

I have a VS V8 wagon auto and beat a Vt calais SC auto. Nuff said

My conclusion for you XRT is that yes, Holden did understate power figures when it was in the same stable as the 5L v8's(for marketing purposes). But it is not a better engine regardless of power output/drivability

[mmciau]

Ok so how do i get the monkey off my back. Whatever thread I start I get the ogres on my door trying to pick a fight. Cant they just answer the question and if its debateable prove me wrong not just go to town with the insults. They target my threads. If they throw a haymaker I throw one back at them and they forever quote me on things.

This forum appreciates posters who provide observations/comments that are seeking agreement or good wholesome discussion without being belligerent or dogmatic.

You may well have formed an opinion based on what you heard/understand/accept of the merits (or otherwise) of the superseded 3.8 litre OHV V6.

Yes there are figures which suggest that the torque of the old engine is "better" than the newer V6 but Holden was faced with an outdated engine that would need huge amounts of money spent on it to make it anywhere near compliant with the 2003-2004 Emission laws.

But the emission laws are not standing still. The compliance rules are getting tighter and tighter with every passing day.

I'd suggest that the current engine is being tweaked more and more to get it to remain compliant with the laws.

And it will reach a point where the current engine will also become non-compliant and Holden will need to introduce a newer engine.

If they don't we best learn to walk again!!!!

Mike

[Covers]

Ok so how do i get the monkey off my back. Whatever thread I start I get the ogres on my door trying to pick a fight. Cant they just answer the question and if its debateable prove me wrong not just go to town with the insults. They target my threads. If they throw a haymaker I throw one back at them and they forever quote me on things.

DONT START THREADS!!! or if you have to limit yourself to 1 a week instead of 10 a day

[XR6T GEN]

This forum appreciates posters who provide observations/comments that are seeking agreement or good wholesome discussion without being belligerent or dogmatic.

You may well have formed an opinion based on what you heard/understand/accept of the merits (or otherwise) of the superseded 3.8 litre OHV V6.

Yes there are figures which suggest that the torque of the old engine is "better" than the newer V6 but Holden was faced with an outdated engine that would need huge amounts of money spent on it to make it anywhere near compliant with the 2003-2004 Emission laws.

But the emission laws are not standing still. The compliance rules are getting tighter and tighter with every passing day.

I'd suggest that the current engine is being tweaked more and more to get it to remain compliant with the laws.

And it will reach a point where the current engine will also become non-com[pliant and Holden will need to introduce a newer engine.

If they don't we best learn to walk again!!!!

Mike

so are you admitting the holden went backwards due to emmissions? learnt o walk again?

[UCNUNV]

so are you admitting the holden went backwards due to emmissions? learnt o walk again?


He never said that, just said they needed a new engine... And like the other 8pages say, this engine is better than the old one every if its not boosted or has slightly less torque down low... its faster, better on fuel, quieter, and better emmisions.

[PBoB]

Went backwards??? What??? They stepped it up with a newer motor.

[Bravotwozero]

so are you admitting the holden went backwards due to emmissions? learnt o walk again?

I suggest you re-read what was posted.

[XR6T GEN]

Would you bet your house on it?

If a SV6 lined up at the lights and a Supercharged V6 came from behind the trees, Ill tell you the SV6 driver would tremble in his boots. super 6 would absolutely run away (if it could keep traction). rolling start anywhere under 100km/h the Super 6 would annilate it.

It has a supercharger on it. whats wrong with you guys. Under 4000rpm, the super 6 motor is brutal. Sv6 is even to about 5000rpm and better thereafter. but 19kw at 6500rpm doesnt make up for 50nm at 3000rpm. Even an LS1 has to employ every kw to keep a super 6 at bay.

[C4B]

Would you bet your house on it?

If a SV6 lined up at the lights and a Supercharged V6 came from behind the trees, Ill tell you the SV6 driver would tremble in his boots. super 6 would absolutely run away (if it could keep traction). rolling start anywhere under 100km/h the Super 6 would annilate it.

It has a supercharger on it. whats wrong with you guys. Under 4000rpm, the super 6 motor is brutal. Sv6 is even to about 5000rpm and better thereafter. but 19kw at 6500rpm doesnt make up for 50nm at 3000rpm. Even an LS1 has to employ every kw to keep a super 6 at bay.


Comparing these two engines is akin to hypothesizing whether Michael Jackson or Peewee Herman would win in a fist fight.......

The answer is "Who Cares!!!!!!"

[XR6T GEN]

Comparing these two engines is akin to hypothesizing whether Michael Jackson or Peewee Herman would win in a fist fight.......

The answer is "Who Cares!!!!!!"

the point of the thread is that holden pulled the wool over by substituting the super 6 for the alloytek 190

If dominos kept making their large pizza smaller and smaller wouldnt you say hey stop trying to short me? its the same thing here

[GODSMACK]

Now ur comparing cars to pizza's... i never realised how mentally retarded you really were, but now that i know, i actually feel a litle sorry for you...

[C4B]

the point of the thread is that holden pulled the wool over by substituting the super 6 for the alloytek 190

If dominos kept making their large pizza smaller and smaller wouldnt you say hey stop trying to short me? its the same thing here

Try and think about this...... Your stupid analogy implies that they are selling what appears to be the same item and giving you less of it..... This is not the case at all.

Holden have said, we are discontinuing the Emotech Pizza and replacing it with the Alloytech Pizza. They have never claimed that the two Pizzas are the same..... In fact they have gone to great lengths to market the differences between the two......

[PBoB]

the point of the thread is that holden pulled the wool over by substituting the super 6 for the alloytek 190

If dominos kept making their large pizza smaller and smaller wouldnt you say hey stop trying to short me? its the same thing here

THEY DID NOT PULL THE WOOL OVER OUR EYES BECAUSE THEY DID NOT SAY THAT IT WAS A SUPERCHARGED ALLOYTEC 190!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BACK TO SCHOOL AND LEARN ENGLISH, THE TERM, TO PULL THE WOOL OVER ONES EYES LITERALLY MEANS, TO FOOL OR TRICK.

[LTH-00L]

Everyone who got fired up about this thread should wake up.. It got posted by a guy with an XR6 Turbo and he obviously wants to rubbish the Holden V6 cos he drive a Ford straight 6T.

No one should of replied to begin with... We know which engine of the 2 is better so let XR6T_GEN think what he wants. Does it really matter?

[BLAQSSHEV]

My 2c ..Had a VZ S pack 175kw with CAI, Extractors and Redback Catback and was done over 400m by nearly 1 car length against a VX Supercharged V6. Not sure what extra he had done but was doing some serious chirping into second while I couldnt get the tiniest chirp in my M6 with 18" rims......Spewin :spew: i was so bought an 8.

[XR6T GEN]

Try and think about this...... Your stupid analogy implies that they are selling what appears to be the same item and giving you less of it..... This is not the case at all.

Holden have said, we are discontinuing the Emotech Pizza and replacing it with the Alloytech Pizza. They have never claimed that the two Pizzas are the same..... In fact they have gone to great lengths to market the differences between the two......

but they tried to market the alloytec as being better which we all know deep down its not. It is a direct substitute into the same car, sports version of the 6 cylinder, uprated version of its 6 cylinder. its one supreme pizza for another I say. they are giving us less, much less. Less capacity, less torque, a few kw more but only if you fang the crap out of it. they have said to us, we are taking th caviar but we will give you the devon. Devon is basically the scrap ham.


My 2c ..Had a VZ S pack 175kw with CAI, Extractors and Redback Catback and was done over 400m by nearly 1 car length against a VX Supercharged V6. Not sure what extra he had done but was doing some serious chirping into second while I couldnt get the tiniest chirp in my M6 with 18" rims......Spewin :spew: i was so bought an 8.

ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. see, i told ya so.

[SCOTTR8]

holden have been having a lend of us for the last 20 odd years.....

[Black_Utester]

ahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa. see, i told ya so.


F*rking hilarious this. Proves that you've got NFI. BLAQSSHEV said it had something done to it meaning it's not stock.

LMFAO - a pinorkel ad man trying to justify that he knows the works of mechanics!

Deep down... really - it's just you. Get over it!

[XR6T GEN]

F*rking hilarious this. Proves that you've got NFI. BLAQSSHEV said it had something done to it meaning it's not stock.

LMFAO - a pinorkel ad man trying to justify that he knows the works of mechanics!

Deep down... really - it's just you. Get over it!


he drives a SV6 (frothing at the mouth).... look at his profile signature.

[HRT 8]

Enough....