Project Calais V - Your input wanted!

[HP-F]

As mentioned in another thread HPF would like to invite ls1.com.au members to help define the modification path for our new VE Calais V.

First thing to keep in mind is the overall design goal for this car. It is a Calais and we would like to keep performance modifications discreet and never compromise the drivability of the car. The ultimate goal is to build a car to rival cars like the M5 or AMG Mercs.

As it stands now the car is mechanically standard, with the exception of an about to be completed tune. Each step of the way we will get time slips and evaluate the street driving experience. We have a few different paths we are considering and would value input on which direction to develop. If you have any other ideas we would also welcome suggestions. Please remember that any of these packages must not have a large effect on the drivability of the car, so cam choice will be critical, exhaust noise limited etc.

Initial options as follows:
1. Bolt on with converter and diff gears.
2. Single Turbo
3. Head/Cam

We look forward to hearing your thoughts.

[Martin_D]

You know the answer already Rob :)

[zorro]

This looks like a good project. My only thoughts on this before I vote for an option is that if it is something to try and rival an M-division M5 or an AMG Merc I think the above options need to be revised.

I reckon for a serious contender and for a car to make a name for itself against these vehicles IMO (and i can only assume this is a beggining for the project) engine modifications that the majority of punters here could do at many of the local tuners is far beyond requirements to run against the euros, fair enough you would have the grunt to match but there is more than that for a car of that class.

I reckon HPF should do a 'Brabus' style approach and without overdoing and making a plastic mokery out of the Calais, modify it to a degree that it is a subtle hardcore luxury performer.

My thoughts could be totally wrong to where you guys are coming from with this but to make it stand out from any other calais with H/C or turbo package would be awesome.

[macca33]

G'day there Rob. This looks like it'll be a good one. Seeing as though there is a lot of FI getting about lately, how about a nice lumpy head/cam with a mid - high 3k stall and capable of running low 12s/high 11s all day long. Nothing quite like a luxury balls-out car.

Cheers,

Macca

[supercharger12]

G'day there Rob. This looks like it'll be a good one. Seeing as though there is a lot of FI getting about lately, how about a nice lumpy head/cam with a mid - high 3k stall and capable of running low 12s/high 11s all day long. Nothing quite like a luxury balls-out car.

Cheers,

Macca

mate i agree that i recon that would be great for a start but i recon u should t/c it aswell so it could b capable of maybe low 11's or high 10's all day.

laters,:1peek:

[Whizza]

imo id like to see a 10sec car but have the handling too match

[mosoto]

hows about mild cam & twinscrew supercharger nestled between the heads.
This has always looked less aftermarket to me than turbos ( or centrifugal S/C).

[Uncle Tone]

Single turbo all the way.....nice smooth idle and spine compacting thrust.

ADR complied too please! :D

[Alex(AUS)]

For a factory setup I would vote neither of those options. I would say use a low boost positive displacement (valley mount) supercharger. It is nice and neat and delivers the type of performance associated with a luxury car (think AMG E55). It is what GM themselves are doing to the Gen4 (LS9) ... there will be no lag etc and it keeps the size of the intercooler / heat exchanger as small as possible. IMHO, when you open the bonnet the turbo setup will look out of place (even if you try to hide the turbo under the car) and the intercooler (even if painted black) will have a rice look to it. Cam / Head / Cam packages will spoil the idle and the sound of the engine. It will sound tough but not luxurious. Of course, a bolt-on package would be nice as long as you keep the exhaust noise / drone to a minimum. Perhaps you can start with this and see how things go after that (you have to do it for any of the packages anyway). Afterward, why not try the new TVS supercharger from Harrop or a twin-screw from the States?

Alex

[mosoto]

As stated in condensed version post #7:rofl:
Considered a Sprintex?

[HP-F]

Well this has definately been an interesting excercise.

As the voting stands at the moment, the bolt on path has had very little interest, single turbo is up there with 39% but head/cam seems the most popular at 51%.

Then of course there is the interest in the option that wasn't listed in the poll, a positive displacement supercharger setup. There has been some very good arguments for this path which really has us thinking.

We'll investigate the options in more detail and post back what we find, in the mean time please continue to vote and suggest what you would like to see in a build up.

[ringram]

Well I voted heads and cam, but I really want you to do a 454 stroker with heads and cam :)
Plenty of 427's 402's 382's etc. How about a 454. Probably need an LSX block or Darton sleeved LSx alloy one.

[seldo]

Your design goal is what I have tried to do with my Senator. I wanted something subtle and inconspicuous that delivered the goods without attracting unwanted attention.
As a result I ended up with:
383 stroker
"baby" 216/220 cam
Dart heads
25% U/D
Billet T/B
Ceramic-coated Pacie headers
Sureflo "quiet" 2.5" exhaust system
Harrop 343/315 4 pot brakes
3.91 diff gears
Koni yellows
HID lights Hi/Lo

As a result, it goes like stink and yet apart from a deep threatening rumble is very subtle and does not attract attention, which suits an old bugga like me....
So - given the choices offered above, I ticked head/cam, as, given the Calais base, I figured you wanted to keep the sleeper look - even when you open the bonnet....That's the best part when you open the bonnet and it looks standard :D Also, do you want blower-whine/turbo-spooling spoiling the every-day drive experience?
Sorry for the long post, but your project has exactly the same aims that I set-out to achieve...:)

[youngstar]

Rob,

Have you got the 22's on yet ?

Any pic's ?

[HP-F]

Rob,

Have you got the 22's on yet ?

Any pic's ?

Yeah sure do, pics are in the other thread:

Australian LS1 and Holden Forums - View Single Post - Project Calais V (http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=1136985&postcount=14)

[hotbox]

Single turbo all the way:)

[seedyrom]

Would love to see a polished serpentine kit put on

http://a763.g.akamai.net/7/763/1644/v0-2/app.infopia.com/img/image/fp/VPID/4732523/img0-2/img.jpg

as well as a polished valley supercharger :)

[macca33]

So - given the choices offered above, I ticked head/cam, as, given the Calais base, I figured you wanted to keep the sleeper look - even when you open the bonnet....That's the best part when you open the bonnet and it looks standard :D

I agree wholeheartedly there Seldo, a luxurious car with the power potential only being advertised by the throb to the engine, but otherwise, a sleeper.

To be honest, everyone is going FI nowadays and although there is nothing wrong with that, I reckon it is a little overdone and certainly it is becoming very common. I'm not having a crack, as I think FI is very good, but not everyone thinks it is the be all and end all IMHO.

A cam or H/C package is a pathway that many people can attain in stages, or as an initial large outlay, which cannot be said for FI, of which all types require a large outlay when all is said and done

Also, as you say, the car looks stock, albeit, a lot meaner. The performance of a well set-up H/C cam car with stalled auto is up there as far as a 'street' car goes.

Cheers,

Macca

[DaveHAT]

Turbo has been done to death (thanks Tone :nyuk:).

Time for something different. :yup:

Calais is a sleeper ... so go with the sleep theme.

"Bolt on" Stock idling Luxo-mobile which with a tune, valve springs, zorst, intake, good suspension setup and converter would have it mid to low 11's with noone being any the wiser.

Smooth, Stylish and fast ... otherwise defined as a Calais where I come from.

[mosoto]

I still feel FI is the way to go but nothing can look "factory" more than a Harrop twin screw nestled between the heads. Everything else looks bolt on and requires too much plumbing.

[Ahyeah]

yep, for a calais go the cam, and a not-too-over-the-top exhaust.

it should have a lovely subtle idle, with a bit of a lope.

should make the numbers with those L98 heads (why change em) right??

my number one choice would have been stroker kit...

[8throttlebodies]

The Brabus idea was a good one...

8tb

[S2VYSS]

Personally I'd love to see a screaming NA motor, something different to the boost option

[VILLAIN]

I must agree with the N/A motor, with just a good cam job you can make over 300 at the wheels, just look at Phonsys redback. So imagine the addition of some good heads and you would be making some great numbers on and off the track.

[ringram]

4" rotating assembly install for a 402 like Seldo and Macca say..
Well NA anyway. FI is boring.

[DR-vyss-108]

well i voted head/cam, but i voted that before i saw the fact you wanted to compair against the likes of an m5 and so on, with the cam, you would want to go pretty mild to keep the drivability, sleek and classy look of the calais, and with the heads to help with torque, you can still make awesome power and torque with the 6ltr with a mild cam and heads and keep the "smoothness".... ultimatly would be to go a mild 402 :P

[Ron SS]

Keep it simple and relevant. This forum has way too much emphasis on drag racing performance. I would much prefer relevance to a good road car. Find an exhaust that doesn't drone and works well. Tell us which ones are rubbish. Do extractors actually do anything if the cam is stock? What size makes a difference? 2.5" pipes or 3"? Do some comparisons ... we all know the 3" Xforce that you have now drones terribly ... try a few others that work, perhaps by swapping the rear mufflers. The L98 heads are supposed to work well as is, but try a simple cleanup and tell us if that improves things. Then, separately, try a few cam changes ..... all aimed at improving it as a road car.

No brainer to get more power with a hot cam, but tell us about its road performance and how it gobbles fuel consumption. Heat is a big killer with VEs ... do some reseach on how to make simple changes to improve the heat soak situation. Try a few intakes and heat shields. Similar to Delco's project I suppose but you could be more comprehensive. Mafless (illegal on VEs) versus maf tune ... any difference? Lots of things to test in that lot!!

If you insist on drag racing emphasis, then experiment and tell us how to stop that rear end from tramping on VEs (manuals are worse than autos).

It would be great to hear info from an unbiased performance shop not pushing their own barrow.

Thanks for detailing your efforts so far, and thanks for Gasolene too.

[HSVQUE]

This has to be the slowest project out there..lol..ive seen whole cars get built in this much time.

[smokiebbear]

First thing to keep in mind is the overall design goal for this car. It is a Calais and we would like to keep performance modifications discreet and never compromise the drivability of the car.

After reading that it's quite simple. Bolt on's with converter and diff gears or turbo. I don't think a lumpy head and cam package could be considered discreet even with the stock exhaust:confused:

[mosoto]

After reading that it's quite simple. Bolt on's with converter and diff gears or turbo. I don't think a lumpy head and cam package could be considered discreet even with the stock exhaust:confused:

Snap...........

[HP-F]

Sorry for the lack of updates. Not much substantial has happened. The plan at this stage is to race at the LS1 nats in bolt on only configuration. This is just an interim plan until final path is decided.

So far it has a maffless tune, DiFilippo extractors, high flow cats and x-force cat back. The driveline has been updated with a Dominator stall and 3.7 diff gears. With any luck we'll get it out to Calder this week to test the setup. Keeping in mind it ran a 13.3 with tune and catback.

[crtx]

i vote head / cam!

[vyssbeast]

This would be one of the first high-stalled A6's wouldnt it ... anymore information on this for the A6 guys on here?