HSV W427 7 Litre Or Nissan GTR R35...which One To Buy

[CarlFST60L]

The tyres will easily be over $1K each.

That GT2 video was awesome... Shame its not quicker than the R35

[chrism697]

The tyres will easily be over $1K each.

That GT2 video was awesome... Shame its not quicker than the R35
well to say one is faster than the other is a bit silly

faster in which way? around a race track? and if so which one........the Porsche will be faster around some and the Nissan around others?
or do you mean quarter mile times? or 0-100km/h times?or top speed times?

there are plenty of
Motor trend tested the Porsche recently and it did 0-60mph in 3.4 seconds which is faster than the GT-R
it took 7.4 to reach 100mph which is also faster than the GT-R
its top speed is 322 kmh which is 12kmh faster than the GT-R

my point is a strong case can be made for both cars, they are obviously very close.......and at the end of the day the car that is faster is the one with the better driver

[CarlFST60L]

well to say one is faster than the other is a bit silly

faster in which way? around a race track? and if so which one........the Porsche will be faster around some and the Nissan around others?
or do you mean quarter mile times? or 0-100km/h times?or top speed times?

there are plenty of
Motor trend tested the Porsche recently and it did 0-60mph in 3.4 seconds which is faster than the GT-R
it took 7.4 to reach 100mph which is also faster than the GT-R
its top speed is 322 kmh which is 12kmh faster than the GT-R

my point is a strong case can be made for both cars, they are obviously very close.......and at the end of the day the car that is faster is the one with the better driver

Silly? thats what this is all about, which is faster! ;)

From all the research I have done the GTR, it is faster in almost everyway, and remember thats what the Nissan engineers set out to do from day one!
The ultimate track in the world, the Ring, containing most types of circuit, the R35 is a few seconds quicker, sure, there maybe tracks that its not quicker at, but if us non pro drivers went at it, the R35 is suppose to be much quicker as its so easy to drive with all the assists it has.
GTR has done 3.3 0-60 in a non prep'd surface (first try they had)
11.6 @ 180km/h (limited to 180km/h!), maybe low 11's with no speed 180km/h limiter...?
haven't seen much on top speed as they are limited AFAIK. Not that most consider top speed to be a meaningful comparison (unless its <260km/h). 99% of people wont see past 250km/h, let along 300km/h.

The only 'down side' that I can find is the unproven quality/reliability, that, and the speed limiter...

At the end of the day, I would take the GT2, but if it as my cash, the R35 is the ultimate in BFYB imho.

[Uwish]

The GTR was slower around the ring compared to the GT2.
The GTR has always competed against a 997 911 TT not the GT2.

GT2 FTW :)

[CarlFST60L]

The GTR was slower around the ring compared to the GT2.
The GTR has always competed against a 997 911 TT not the GT2.

GT2 FTW :)

Ahhh, yes, my molestake.

[NickS]

The GTR was slower around the ring compared to the GT2.
The GTR has always competed against a 997 911 TT not the GT2.

GT2 FTW :)

Considering you could probably buy a GT-R, a W427 and an RS4 for the price of one GT2 ... you'd bloody hope it would win.

Ideally I'd take the GT2 also, with a limit to funds available the GT-R is a reasonable alternative ... it certainly wouldn't be embarrassed by the GT2, that's for sure.

[chrism697]

Considering you could probably buy a GT-R, a W427 and an RS4 for the price of one GT2 ... you'd bloody hope it would win.

Ideally I'd take the GT2 also, with a limit to funds available the GT-R is a reasonable alternative ... it certainly wouldn't be embarrassed by the GT2, that's for sure.
Thats one thing i dont think anyone could argue......the GT-R is king when it comes to "bang for your buck"

[ImpulSSiVZ]

WOW!!!! :eek:

Crazy video. Thanks for sharing!!!! :bow:

That is some pretty stuff right there. Its amazing they'd share so much about the internals and how they work in a promo clip.

I wonder how long before that technology filters down (gets ripped off) to the manufacturing plants in china.

Love the variable turbo :)

Seedy,
I could just sit here and watch that vid all day.
That is my lotto car ;-)

YouTube - Porsche 911 GT2 Edo Competition in Nurburgring on board cam (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaoMfAdKd3s)

Here is a vid (in car) of the GT2 going round the ring.
Not sure of the time he took, but old Walter in another
vid did it in 7:32.
Imagine a round of the V8 Supercars on this track,
the carnage would be spectacular ;-)

[clubbie]

Watched the vid's of the Z06 and GT2 but I am not sure on one thing.....was the GT2 tramping the rear axle? If it was that sucks for a car worth close to half a mill.

Secondly GTR tested in WA ran 11.67 @ 180....hit the speed limiter before the traps. Taken from May Motor Magazine.

Clubbie

[neverL8V8]

Watched the vid's of the Z06 and GT2 but I am not sure on one thing.....was the GT2 tramping the rear axle? If it was that sucks for a car worth close to half a mill.

Secondly GTR tested in WA ran 11.67 @ 180....hit the speed limiter before the traps. Taken from May Motor Magazine.

Clubbie

Yes thats Jonseys,Owns Fabcar previously Auto wholsale here in W.A
(aka laser tech9tigers:biggun:) He has had plenty of 10sec cars,He has had his Gtr R35 for a couple of months or more now,He had this before nissan Australia got theres.:lmao:
Heres a clip

YouTube - Steve Jones runs 11.67 1/4 mile in R35 GTR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-9v8Zl1FMo)

[sandmanls1]

check latest Motor issue the Fabcar one is tested in there also a test of r32,33, 34 vs the 35.. Interesting reading.

[Martin_D]

We still have plenty of R34 GTR customers and they really are the pick of the old school Nissans right now...great buying too at around $50K, providing you can find one that hasnt been 'wheels up' in a ditch :lol:

As for the GT2....I have it on very good authority right now that testing at a well known Aussie race track sees the GTR as being marginally quicker on the lap, and definitely quicker in the straight line accleration tests :)

[NickS]

As for the GT2....I have it on very good authority right now that testing at a well known Aussie race track sees the GTR as being marginally quicker on the lap, and definitely quicker in the straight line accleration tests :)

Quicker than the GT2 ??? :shock:

Any footage ?

If they where the same price ... I'd still take the GT2, but it would have to close to 1/2 a mill by the time you got it on the road. Ouch ...

Any hints as to the track / driver ??? Or when we will be able to read about it.

[Martin_D]

No, no, and no Nick :)
GT2 is a very cool car, but with its propensity to hammer sideways and slide I really didnt think it would be up your alley :cool:

[NickS]

No, no, and no Nick :)
GT2 is a very cool car, but with its propensity to hammer sideways and slide I really didnt think it would be up your alley :cool:

Bugger ... I hope further details are available eventually.

re; sideways and sliding. IMO unless you are VERY highly skilled ( ... which I am not) something that struggles to maintain grip would be a lot slower and a lot more dangerous than something that stays composed and in a straight line ... hence your comment above. However ... it's a GT2.

:bow:

I'm a huge 911 fan, I just can't afford them. 911 Turbo would probably be my pick but the GT2 is an awesome piece of machinery, I don't know how anyone could not love that car.

[Martin_D]

I'm a huge 911 fan, I just can't afford them. 911 Turbo would probably be my pick but the GT2 is an awesome piece of machinery, I don't know how anyone could not love that car.

Cmon Nick...deny youself nothing :lol:
I have a mate here with a 2007 997 TT and he currently has it for sale for very low 300s/high 200s. Now....add up how much you spent on the SS, the GTS, and the truckloads of cash tipped into the Coupe 4 and theres your answer :)

I am sure there would be enough there for a 997 TT and one of our 450kw PCM flash upgrades :bow:

[NickS]

Cmon Nick...deny youself nothing :lol:
I have a mate here with a 2007 997 TT and he currently has it for sale for very low 300s/high 200s. Now....add up how much you spent on the SS, the GTS, and the truckloads of cash tipped into the Coupe 4 and theres your answer :)

I am sure there would be enough there for a 997 TT and one of our 450kw PCM flash upgrades :bow:

You're dead right mate ... the Mrs can walk !!!

:lmao:

[Martin_D]

Spot on! :bow:

[TLX]

We still have plenty of R34 GTR customers and they really are the pick of the old school Nissans right now...great buying too at around $50K, providing you can find one that hasnt been 'wheels up' in a ditch :lol:

As for the GT2....I have it on very good authority right now that testing at a well known Aussie race track sees the GTR as being marginally quicker on the lap, and definitely quicker in the straight line accleration tests :)

There you go nuff said.....that's pretty impressive:)

[SchrgdVSV6]

Latest news on the V-SPEC (from autoblog.com) if you think the standard GTR was too tame for you.... :)

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2008/04/gtr_vspec_opt.jpg
Nissan GT-R V-Spec lap times stun observers

The prototype Nissan GT-R V-Spec, wearing the "Victory Specification" designation reserved for the ultra high-performance Nissan GT-R, has been caught lapping the famed Nürburgring at an incredible, if not simply unbelievable, 7:25 per lap. This, according to bystanders trackside. (For comparison, Walter Röhrl lapped the Ring in 7:28 while driving a Porsche Carrera GT in 2004.)

In contrast to the standard Nissan GT-R, that made the run around the 'Ring in 7:38, the GT-R V-Spec has a new front splitter, modified rear spoiler, and different wheels. A more extensive use of carbon fiber has reportedly reduced the weight by upwards of 330 pounds. Of course, Nissan engineers also tweaked the twin-turbo powerplant for another 70 horses...

[CarlFST60L]

caught lapping the famed Nürburgring at an incredible, if not simply unbelievable, 7:25 per lap. This, according to bystanders trackside. (For comparison, Walter Röhrl lapped the Ring in 7:28 while driving a Porsche Carrera GT in 2004.)

WOW, that certainly is serious!

Anyone know how much more the V Spec is?

[KAL SPL]

Apparently 11.3 stock as for the R , cant see any HSV version getting that low :eek:

[Holden Man]

Resistance is proving useless. (GTR is king)

Do they even need a V-spec version ? (silly question. I know!)

[nang3]

fark that is one fast motherf*cker !!! makes a lot of other cars seem very farken ordinary!

[Uwish]

Can't wait to see the cost of servicing the new GTR.
Plasma bores need inspecting ect ect.
Still the best Bang for your $$$$

[Martin_D]

Servicing costs will be staggering thats for sure, particularly as your friendly GTR dealer needs an investment of around $120K to get the service centre together for them. Expect to be paying it off :lol:

[neverL8V8]

The factory 600+hp ZR1 is soon to be released...

A stunning new benchmark in Corvette performance
With its 600+ horsepower LS9 supercharged V8, ZR1 is capable of 200+ mph on the test track ....

6.2 Liter V8 with Eaton TVS Supercharger and intercooler
Massive Brembo Carbon Ceramic Brakes ....

You wouldn't have queers winking at you sitting at the lights in one of these rumbling tarmac ripping machines.:stick:

[nang3]

The factory 600+hp ZR1 is soon to be released...

A stunning new benchmark in Corvette performance
With its 600+ horsepower LS9 supercharged V8, ZR1 is capable of 200+ mph on the test track ....

6.2 Liter V8 with Eaton TVS Supercharger and intercooler
Massive Brembo Carbon Ceramic Brakes ....

You wouldn't have queers winking at you sitting at the lights in one of these rumbling tarmac ripping machines.:stick:

.. yeh cause with a penis extension like that they will know you have a smaller pecker !!!!

:bow: just jokes id have one in a second, or a 427 or GTR..

[neverL8V8]

Sorry Nang i didnt know you where that way inclined,:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ohh yes sorry it does state your sexual oreintation here says FPV TYPHOON.

Joking too mate, Id have either touugh the 427 seems more my style.

[HSVDKB]

A grey import Black edition R35 with 1,250 Km on the clock changed hands for $125,100 NZD on Trademe this morning which is about $107,300 AUD

[SchrgdVSV6]

Motor reviews GTR and GTR R35 v R34 v R33 V R32

http://www.gtrblog.com/index.php/2008/04/09/motor-magazine-australias-first-test-r32-1?blog=4

LOL @ "Commodore owners are the worst" comment in the article! :D

[bogan_boy]

Apparently the ZR-1 could only manage a lap time in the 7min 40's around the Nurburgring. Wouldn't be surprised if it can't even beat the stock GTR's time - let alone come close to the V-spec's time.
High power, high torque RWD cars such as the ZR-1 really needs a good drivetrain and transmission to utilize all that power. Frankly i can't see the ZR-1 having a really good drivetrain or transmission. Power is nothing without control.

[neverL8V8]

Frankly i can't see the ZR-1 having a really good drivetrain or transmission.

Six-speed, close-ratio, race-hardened manual transmission
Higher-capacity and specific-diameter axle half-shafts
Specific suspension tuning provides more than 1g cornering grip
Curb weight of approximately 1,519 kg
Carbon-ceramic, drilled disc brake rotors - 15.5-inch-diameter (394-mm) in the front and 15-inch-diameter (380-mm) in the rear

Yea sounds like POO!

[marcosambrose]

You would lose vital time with a 2 door getting the kids in the back, so the question is could the GTR gain back the time on the W427 on your way to dropping off your kids at school?

[Uwish]

GTRs 100,000k service is an Engine out jobbie.

Mmmm Yes sir your car is ready, that will be 10k for your 100,000k service.
Fark that. You won't see that happen to a Porsche.

There will be alot of 2nd hand GTRs around with 90k on the clock!!!

[marcosambrose]

GTRs 100,000k service is an Engine out jobbie.

Mmmm Yes sir your car is ready, that will be 10k for your 100,000k service.
Fark that. You won't see that happen to a Porsche.

There will be alot of 2nd hand GTRs around with 90k on the clock!!!
Really? thats quite silly then... Porsches have been a 40 odd year evolution though, they have the two door rear engined sports car perfected.

Still, at least for the first 95k km's you will have the best japanese car ever built...

[Uwish]

No-one knows how reliable they are! They should be!!

[bogan_boy]

Mmmm Yes sir your car is ready, that will be 10k for your 100,000k service.
Fark that. You won't see that happen to a Porsche.

That's cos you don't see many Porsches been driven that much. Just like Ferrari's, they spend most of their time in the garage!hehe.

Anyway, even if it does cost 10 grand for a plasma respray, you can do it 10 times on the GTR and you'd still be better off than buying a 911 turbo - which costs somewhere around AU$170 grand more than the GTR!!

And yes, the drivetrain and transmission hardware of the ZR-1 looks good, but that equates to nothing if they're not applied properly. American cars are never renown for handling.

[Uwish]

That's cos you don't see many Porsches been driven that much. Just like Ferrari's, they spend most of their time in the garage!hehe.

Anyway, even if it does cost 10 grand for a plasma respray, you can do it 10 times on the GTR and you'd still be better off than buying a 911 turbo - which costs somewhere around AU$170 grand more than the GTR!!

And yes, the drivetrain and transmission hardware of the ZR-1 looks good, but that equates to nothing if they're not applied properly. American cars are never renown for handling.

Plenty of Porsches get driven to over 100ks on the clock.

The ZR-1 hasn't lapped the ring yet, but I bet it does it in the low 30s.
There are a few US made cars that handle well. Just cost a bucket of coin to buy!

[SchrgdVSV6]

The ZR-1 hasn't lapped the ring yet, but I bet it does it in the low 30s.
Early runs by the ZR1 are in the low 7:40s.

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/04/10/corvette-zr-1-ring-times-in-low-7-40s-gt-r-v-spec-amused/

[neverL8V8]

Looks like you mised this also....


Did you miss the part where they mentioned that photographers were clocking lap times and that these times should be taken with a grain of salt?


Yet to run Chevrolet hopes for high 7:20 / low 7:30s at Nurburgring.

[SchrgdVSV6]

I didnt miss anything... Uwish implied the ZR1 has not lapped the ring yet and I corrected him. Also note my "Early runs by the ZR1" comment

[Uwish]

I stand corrected. Officially timed then>?

Anyway, GTR is good under 99,000ks ! Then you sell it off!
lol

[pushrod4life]

I stand corrected. Officially timed then>?...

The run was apparently hand-timed and in "damp conditions".

[nang3]

I stand corrected. Officially timed then>?

Anyway, GTR is good under 99,000ks ! Then you sell it off!
lol

I'd still buy it for $40k mwahaha spend $10k on the 100km service and robs ya dads brother !

Best ever BFYB !! haha

[sandmanls1]

nice garage and car..

http://www.caradvice.com.au/12301/video-jay-lenos-nissan-gt-r/

[chevypower]

nice garage and car..

http://www.caradvice.com.au/12301/video-jay-lenos-nissan-gt-r/

www.jaylenosgarage.com he has a new video up there every week. There was a rumour that he would host the NBC version of Top Gear, but looks like that job is going to Adam Carolla - and i have no idea who that is. The thing i like about Jay Leno is he knows his stuff from vintage electric, vintage steam cars, he owns and drives them, knows how to fix them, knows who made the things, likes new technology also, he just knows variety, when it comes to cars.

[sandmanls1]

yes he owes respect for that at a minimum.......

[OPTIMUS]

adam carolla is the tall guy from the man show (foxtel)

[nang3]

www.jaylenosgarage.com he has a new video up there every week. There was a rumour that he would host the NBC version of Top Gear, but looks like that job is going to Adam Carolla - and i have no idea who that is. The thing i like about Jay Leno is he knows his stuff from vintage electric, vintage steam cars, he owns and drives them, knows how to fix them, knows who made the things, likes new technology also, he just knows variety, when it comes to cars.

Jay Leno would have made an awesome host as he is a car whore like us !!
Adams pretty funny but i have no idea about his car knowledge/history.. at least Jimmy Kimmel will probably make some cameos as well

[sandmanls1]

in today's herald sun the w427 could hit 170k I assume thats before on roads.. and now more LCT? HSV said exchange rates are affecting them with the strength of the aussie dollar, I thought we would have been better off, ie the engines are cheaper to buy from the US??

[LargeRice]

HSV said exchange rates are affecting them with the strength of the aussie dollar, I thought we would have been better off, ie the engines are cheaper to buy from the US??

You are correct, any imports are now dirt cheap!

I would imagine he was more aiming to other imported cars being cheaper... can't see how that is the case as the competitors to this HSV are not discounting massively.

I think it boils down to HSV completely missing the mark and venturing blind into a market segment they have never played in before. It probably looked good a couple of years ago however today, with Audi/BMW/Merc battling out like never before, HSV has fallen short.

I think it's odd that HSV have given excuses on why their car is expensive, not a justification on why you should buy. Whoever gave out that comment on the exchange rate probably should be fired IMO.

[sandmanls1]

ironically it was the md..

[NickS]

in today's herald sun the w427 could hit 170k I assume thats before on roads.. and now more LCT? HSV said exchange rates are affecting them with the strength of the aussie dollar, I thought we would have been better off, ie the engines are cheaper to buy from the US??

RRP includes LCT ... it's not added on after.

Taxes in our cars are insane, Import Duty, GST, LCT, Stamp Duty ... buy a GT-R or a 427 and you'll be paying the government > $50,000 in tax. Screw that, I'm sticking with the cheaper cars, modify them and change them over more often.

At this rate the 427 will be close to $200K on the road ... :shock:

[LJCHSV]

RRP includes LCT ... it's not added on after.

Taxes in our cars are insane, Import Duty, GST, LCT, Stamp Duty ... buy a GT-R or a 427 and you'll be paying the government > $50,000 in tax. Screw that, I'm sticking with the cheaper cars, modify them and change them over more often.

At this rate the 427 will be close to $200K on the road ... :shock:

Its not so bad if your an executive in a major corporation with a nice car allowance in your package....but when its your own money and knowing that your giving the government 5OG's for doing Sweet F A...its a bit hard to swallow( specially with all the other taxes small buisness have to pay:vpo:)......im with Nick on this 1.

[HSV Listy]

By the time HSV sorts out this car and pricing the GTR will be on the market as grey imports. Not long now until this is allowed. Maybe 6 to 8 months to go.

[GODSMACK]

Close to $200k on road (possibly) for the W427? No offence to any fanatics, but thats way too much for a HSV,no matter what running gear it has..

On that note i also believe the pricing for the R35 is over the top too, considering the cost involved to rebuild once it hits 100 thousand kms.. yes its quick, but with that sorta money you could build a car as fast, if not faster if speed is infact what your after (which would be close to 95% of the members here)...

[Pickles]

As far as the W427 is concerned, I'm awaiting the first driving impressions from the press--not that you can rely on them all the time, but after that, owners' impressions will be interesting also--shouldn't have too long to wait.
But, whilst I am eagerly awaiting finding out what the car is really like, I can't help but think, IMHO anyway, how much better it would have been in a Coupe body.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Holden Man]

Most cars over 100k are ridiculously priced if you ask me. And the old argument of building something faster (probably won't look as good though)for way less applies (especially if you are taking it on a racetrack).

This 7ltr engine is proving to be a curse for HSV - I just hope it's an absolute monster when it comes out. (this could be our (holden fans) "GTHO" equiv)

[hsv-105]

Out of the 8 people I know that have an expression of interest all have responded the same , myself included - No way, not a 170K + for a Commodore or basically a 100k premium over a GTS for an extra .8 of a litre.

We may be passionate enthusiasts - but certainly not fools.

[ADAM 26]

Why would they put the hand built 7L in over the new 6.3 supercharged
ls9??

surely with the charged motor it would appeal to more people, would give the gtr a run for its money.

[seldo]

Out of the 8 people I know that have an expression of interest all have responded the same , myself included - No way, not a 170K + for a Commodore or basically a 100k premium over a GTS for an extra .8 of a litre.

We may be passionate enthusiasts - but certainly not fools.
Make that 9...

[nang3]

in today's herald sun the w427 could hit 170k I assume thats before on roads.. and now more LCT? HSV said exchange rates are affecting them with the strength of the aussie dollar, I thought we would have been better off, ie the engines are cheaper to buy from the US??

farken hell thats a lot of cheese!!!!
it would have to be a damn good car to attract buyers considering its competitors in that price bracket!

[NickS]

Make that 9...

10 ...

:D

[sandmanls1]

how much is the CSV version that Motor tested isn't it like a 30k premium ?

motor are driving the 427 next month

[GETUTED]

No way, not a 170K + for a Commodore or basically a 100k premium over a GTS for an extra .8 of a litre.

Esp when there is a near new GTS with a 427 for sale in Unique cars for $95k.

[TLX]

10 ...

:D


11.....

:rofl:

[GODSMACK]

I think i recall someone mentioning that the W427 will be built as a limited edition.. If thats the case, Holden will have no problem offloading them to diehard fanatics who just have to have one.. However if Holden were to release this as a production line model, it would be the biggest flop in Holdens history.. Had it been released with the S/C LS9 (?) then it could have possibly been a different story...

[phunky_monkey]

Close to $200k on road (possibly) for the W427? No offence to any fanatics, but thats way too much for a HSV,no matter what running gear it has..

On that note i also believe the pricing for the R35 is over the top too, considering the cost involved to rebuild once it hits 100 thousand kms.. yes its quick, but with that sorta money you could build a car as fast, if not faster if speed is infact what your after (which would be close to 95% of the members here)...

No doubt you could build a quicker car for the track only, but as a complete road car, I don't think so. Not a car that can do all that this R35 GT-R does, in all weather conditions, with the added bonus of a full warranty.

Yeah, it may be an expensive 100k service, but compare that to a ferrari service, which is a slower car, and see if it's so bad...

[GODSMACK]

No doubt you could build a quicker car for the track only, but as a complete road car, I don't think so. Not a car that can do all that this R35 GT-R does, in all weather conditions, with the added bonus of a full warranty.

Yeah, it may be an expensive 100k service, but compare that to a ferrari service, which is a slower car, and see if it's so bad... Good points Phunkey, ill pay that... But i think you could well build a street legal car that went like the clappers, handled like it was on rails with all the creature comforts for $170k or so, easy..

[chrism697]

But it wouldnt have a warranty, wouldnt have the reliability, would still probabaly be slower

and it would not be as complete a car, it would be more of a compramise, id be willing to bet that if you managed to build something as fast as the GT-R it would be no where near as good for day to day driving......it wouldnt be as comfortable etc.....

at the end of the day you cant build compete agaist factories with cars like these, they spend around a billion dollars and millions of man hours from 1000's of engineers......2 totally different ball games

plus if you build up a car, try and sell it in 5 years time......id be willing to bet the GT-R will be worth a whole lot more

[Carby]

Can't believe this is still going on - it's a stupid comparison, the GTR is to be compared with Porsche, Ferrari and R8's two doors and no back seats.

The HSV is a sedan from a low volume (GMH/HSV) manufacturer.

If you want outright performance go the GTR - it is numero uno, no question.

The 427 will be rather unique in world terms and a nice drive - but hey it's no R35 beater in any aspect, except in number of bodies carried.:)

[phunky_monkey]

^^^ Spot on mate, agreed 100%. The only comparison is the price.

A better comparison would be M5 vs E63 vs W427 :)

[hsv-105]

Here's the quote from Scott Grant the MD of HSV expaining the price rise.

'It's not really a thing we can control. The exchange rate is really hurting us.We are buying a lot of the stuff for the car from the US,including the engine,and our dollar is really strong against the greenback.' End Quote.

FFS what a load of crap - one would have thought that as the Managing Director of HSV one would at least need a basis grasp of economics.

Sorry Mr Grant - back to Year 8 Economics for you Pal.

Lesson 1, Semister 1, - Our strong dollar compared against the US dollar actually makes it cheaper to purchase US sourced products.

HSV have seen a chance to make huge profits after 1500 expressions of interest and seen the chance to pump the price by $50,000.
I may be wrong but I reckon they have misread the market for this car and have got caught up in there own hype.

To then blame our strong dollar...........:lmao:

[VYII_R8]

Here's the quote from Scott Grant the MD of HSV expaining the price rise.

'It's not really a thing we can control. The exchange rate is really hurting us.We are buying a lot of the stuff for the car from the US,including the engine,and our dollar is really strong against the greenback.' End Quote.

To then blame our strong dollar...........:lmao:

Oh GOD!! Did he REALLY say that?? :rofl:

[hsv-105]

Oh GOD!! Did he REALLY say that?? :rofl:

Word for Word on page 6 of the Cars Guide in today's Herald Sun.

I'm now waiting for him to tell us how $1 AU can buy 3 pints of beer in a pommy pub. :confused:

[The-V8-Power]

When i read it, i was huh? Its cheaper to import not more expensive.

Maybe they are testing the waters with saying its gonna be over $170,000 even some are prediting $200,000 nearly a fifth of a million $ (scary thought that) to see who will buy one.
For the money + on roads you buy about 4-5 normal SS's for a lil comparo.

[LargeRice]

Here's the quote from Scott Grant the MD of HSV expaining the price rise.

'It's not really a thing we can control. The exchange rate is really hurting us.We are buying a lot of the stuff for the car from the US,including the engine,and our dollar is really strong against the greenback.' End Quote.

FFS what a load of crap - one would have thought that as the Managing Director of HSV one would at least need a basis grasp of economics.

Sorry Mr Grant - back to Year 8 Economics for you Pal.

Lesson 1, Semister 1, - Our strong dollar compared against the US dollar actually makes it cheaper to purchase US sourced products.

HSV have seen a chance to make huge profits after 1500 expressions of interest and seen the chance to pump the price by $50,000.
I may be wrong but I reckon they have misread the market for this car and have got caught up in there own hype.

To then blame our strong dollar...........:lmao:

It's not just getting the exchange rate wrong where he messed up.

If you are trying to push a 'premium' product why the hell would you give excuses on why it's so expensive? Surely, anyone with half a brain would be rattling off the many benefits, performance, quality, R&D, warranty etc on why you should buy.

The Audi/BMW/Merc performance cars are expensive however you never hear them justifying their price. To me, it clearly sounds like the MD knows they are just being stupid with the price. As someone said before, it will be $200k on road :spew:

[NickS]

As someone said before, it will be $200k on road :spew:

:yup: ... that would be me.

Unbelievable comment from the HSV MD, it's the PERFECT time to be buying from the US (I just bought an engine block ... :D). The sort of $$$ they are talking are just insane. I have an order on an SSV wagon for $50K, I have GTS rims and brakes for it already. $1K on suspension and a nice head/cam package and it'll probably see off the W427 for <$60K.

I realise that I'll be another "rolling defect" but I don't give a toss ... I'll save the $100K + and happily take that risk.

:confused:

[CarlFST60L]

'It's not really a thing we can control. The exchange rate is really hurting us.We are buying a lot of the stuff for the car from the US,including the engine,and our dollar is really strong against the greenback.' End Quote.

FFS what a load of crap

Is it possible that they (HSV/GM) do a 'trading scheme' with our exports (G8 etc)? So, they budgeted on them 'owing' us based on 80c in the $ exchange rate the time the research was done, but, now that our money is close to equal, the original forecasts are now wrong. Dont know if I explained that right, but surely they are not stupid enough to say the quote above, or are they :hide:

[Holden Man]

(I just bought an engine block ... :D).

Clue for Coupe4 maybe ?

Does it look like this ?!! >

http://i284.photobucket.com/albums/ll24/choppedit/572.jpg

[NickS]

Is it possible that they (HSV/GM) do a 'trading scheme' with our exports (G8 etc)? So, they budgeted on them 'owing' us based on 80c in the $ exchange rate the time the research was done, but, now that our money is close to equal, the original forecasts are now wrong. Dont know if I explained that right, but surely they are not stupid enough to say the quote above, or are they :hide:

I see what you're saying ... but to make up lost export profits by increasing the price of something sold locally is just stupid.

Is HSV exporting to the US ?

[hsv-105]

Is it possible that they (HSV/GM) do a 'trading scheme' with our exports (G8 etc)? So, they budgeted on them 'owing' us based on 80c in the $ exchange rate the time the research was done, but, now that our money is close to equal, the original forecasts are now wrong. Dont know if I explained that right, but surely they are not stupid enough to say the quote above, or are they :hide:

HSV and GM are totally seperate entities and HSV are not exporting to the US.
I can hardly see HSV/GM Aust/GM US conducting business like school kids trading footy cards in the yard.

I can hear them now in the boardroom -swap,swap,keep,keep,got,got,keep,swap............. ...

[CarlFST60L]

Fair enough, was just a thought. I guess he really put his foot in it this time

[sandmanls1]

should know better given he came from lexus, but guess it is possible holden / hsv are linked through the export credits, would they make that much of a difference to the price of the engine etc, I know they is a lot of other custom work, ie dry sumping etc to make it fit, but how can they justify the difference? 170k / 200k onroad is heading into a rarefied market, not just the vehicle, but sales, service and support.

[LargeRice]

Is it possible that they (HSV/GM) do a 'trading scheme' with our exports (G8 etc)? So, they budgeted on them 'owing' us based on 80c in the $ exchange rate the time the research was done, but, now that our money is close to equal, the original forecasts are now wrong.

Depending on how much business they do overseas (either import/export), they probably have hedged some currency however it would probably be no longer than 3 month blocks. The last 47c was what, 3years ago? No way they would hedge for 3yrs+.

I think the MD just slipped up on that quote. Quite possibly someone else in the organisation gave him some reasons on why the price was high and it was that person that was actually wrong. Even so, i still believe the MD should not have said anything along the lines of reasons causing the price to be high. He simply should have said you get 7L, fastest Ozzie made car, R&D etc and sold the story. Either way he still botched up.

[Pickles]

As I've said before, I reckon the cars will sell--albeit on a very limited basis, which HSV have said all along, will be the sales environment for this car.
I do not understand the "$" statement made by Scott Grant, nor do I have any idea how the price is configured.
However, escalating production costs involving the removal of the LS3 engine at HSV's premises, & then having to instal the LS7, rather than the preferred & original option of HSV receiving the car already fitted with the LS7, could have some bearing on what is happening.
Cheers, Pickles.

[lowriding]

Should have known seeing guys background. Toyota and Lexus have been price reaming their customers for years !

[zackde]

Here's the quote from Scott Grant the MD of HSV expaining the price rise.

'It's not really a thing we can control. The exchange rate is really hurting us.We are buying a lot of the stuff for the car from the US,including the engine,and our dollar is really strong against the greenback.' End Quote.

FFS what a load of crap - one would have thought that as the Managing Director of HSV one would at least need a basis grasp of economics.

Sorry Mr Grant - back to Year 8 Economics for you Pal.

Lesson 1, Semister 1, - Our strong dollar compared against the US dollar actually makes it cheaper to purchase US sourced products.

HSV have seen a chance to make huge profits after 1500 expressions of interest and seen the chance to pump the price by $50,000.
I may be wrong but I reckon they have misread the market for this car and have got caught up in there own hype.

To then blame our strong dollar...........:lmao:

I concur 100% after many years waiting saving and based on discussions with HSV people about the price range I put in my expression of interest. Only to be feed a B.S line that should actually drop the price not increase it. I have withdrawn mine. Is there any one on here still going to follow through with theres?

[hsv-105]

I concur 100% after many years waiting saving and based on discussions with HSV people about the price range I put in my expression of interest. Only to be feed a B.S line that should actually drop the price not increase it. I have withdrawn mine. Is there any one on here still going to follow through with theres?

Good question mate - I don't know of anyone...........


As I've said before, I reckon the cars will sell--albeit on a very limited basis, which HSV have said all along, will be the sales environment for this car.
I do not understand the "$" statement made by Scott Grant, nor do I have any idea how the price is configured.
However, escalating production costs involving the removal of the LS3 engine at HSV's premises, & then having to instal the LS7, rather than the preferred & original option of HSV receiving the car already fitted with the LS7, could have some bearing on what is happening.
Cheers, Pickles.

Now Now Mr Planetpickles - how about stepping back into to your old role in finance.

A customer comes in wanting to purchase a " Commodore " at 100k over their premium model { or near on 130% }

Would you be handing over the cash given that you need to protect your own investment.

Who in this current climate is going to hand over $170-200K of cold hard cash for a Commodore - simple answer - no one.

I know that you are a very passionate Holden man but go back 20 years when you were buying the premium models and consider the current situation.

What sort of premium did you pay for your VK Group A,VK Director in Black fully optioned :drool: or the VL GroupA plus pack.

Answer - nothing like we're talking here.

Let's see how the finance companies warm to the W427

[mustanger]

Well ,I`m another one that had a genuine expression of interest in place, and I don`t think I will be placing an order. As a member of the HSV Frequent buyers club, I was given a questionaire to fill out, regarding what HSV owners wanted in a high performance sedan. I don`t recall the part about the $200,000 price tag.:lol:

I think HSV has definately missed the mark with this vehicle. I bet that most of the orders will go to the Dealer principles as company cars. It will be interesting to see how they go on the used car market,once they have to offload them:hmmm:

On another quote from the article that I found very interesting. " There`s potential for a less exotic Commodore using the 427 engine"

Now that quote made me open my eyes this morning :lmao: GTSR anyone?

[Pickles]

Good question mate - I don't know of anyone...........



Now Now Mr Planetpickles - how about stepping back into to your old role in finance.

A customer comes in wanting to purchase a " Commodore " at 100k over their premium model { or near on 130% }

Would you be handing over the cash given that you need to protect your own investment.

Who in this current climate is going to hand over $170-200K of cold hard cash for a Commodore - simple answer - no one.

I know that you are a very passionate Holden man but go back 20 years when you were buying the premium models and consider the current situation.

What sort of premium did you pay for your VK Group A,VK Director in Black fully optioned :drool: or the VL GroupA plus pack.

Answer - nothing like we're talking here.

Let's see how the finance companies warm to the W427
G'day Mark, well you could be asking the wrong person here!
Being an old banker, I'd NEVER have been able to afford one of these anyway-the GTO was the biggest financial "transaction" of my life!!--in dollar terms it cost more than our house! So, I'd never be able to buy a W427.
And, yes, this is one VERY expensive motor car.
BUT, 200 isn't a big number, & whilst $170/180k is going to deter some people, I believe there'll be enough left to buy these cars.
The Finance companies won't have an issue with the cars, BUT they could well have an issue with the potential buyer-ie can he afford it? --and that will also knock some people out.
Just have to wait & see I guess.
But to tell you the truth, I'm more interested in the fact that I missed out on a ride in the BLACK BEAST at Winton--ah well, maybe one day. And of course, your hinted "maybe"/"change in direction" plans for your coupe 4 are also holding my interest!
Cheers, Pickles.

[Uncle Tone]

G'day Mark, well you could be asking the wrong person here!
Being an old banker, I'd NEVER have been able to afford one of these anyway-the GTO was the biggest financial "transaction" of my life!!--in dollar terms it cost more than our house! So, I'd never be able to buy a W427.
And, yes, this is one VERY expensive motor car.
BUT, 200 isn't a big number, & whilst $170/180k is going to deter some people, I believe there'll be enough left to buy these cars.
The Finance companies won't have an issue with the cars, BUT they could well have an issue with the potential buyer-ie can he afford it? --and that will also knock some people out.
Just have to wait & see I guess.
But to tell you the truth, I'm more interested in the fact that I missed out on a ride in the BLACK BEAST at Winton--ah well, maybe one day. And of course, your hinted "maybe"/"change in direction" plans for your coupe 4 are also holding my interest!
Cheers, Pickles.

I hope that change in direction includes a manual gearbox....how cool would that be :D

As far as the W427 goes funds are still not approved.

Buy an M3 or a Benz.

[seldo]

............And, yes, this is one VERY expensive motor car.
BUT, 200 isn't a big number, & whilst $170/180k is going to deter some people, I believe there'll be enough left to buy these cars...........

Those people who are able to afford this sort of expenditure are in that position not because they are stupid. You don't amass sufficent wherewithall by being stupid, and just because they can afford it doesn't mean that they will.
I think HSV need to be very careful that they don't get too greedy and shoot themselves in the foot with pricing and end up with 150 left-overs that no-one wants, especially if they roll over into a new model-year... It happened with the VL Walkys when they were new...They decided they'd just make another couple of hundred more than the originally projected 500 or whatever it was and ended up with a severe embarrassment with cars still on dealers' floors 18 months later...

[payaya]

I cant see this thing not selling out. Obviously HSV would have done their research and determined if the project is worthwhile. I cant see them building this vehicle as a "design exercise".

A lot of people will buy this vehicle and I dont think finance would be the issue, it would be a question of insurance. Obviously because they are so rare, every machine stolen would be stripped or shipped overseas. Its like the GTHO's once they are gone, they are gone!

[planetdavo]

Those people who are able to afford this sort of expenditure are in that position not because they are stupid. You don't amass sufficent wherewithall by being stupid, and just because they can afford it doesn't mean that they will.

Evening all.
Let us all not forget that a customer went and bought a perfectly good VE Senator, then spent an absolute sh!tload of $$$$ at WP converting it into a Lambo green supercharged GTS. The price well and truly exceeded the price these W427's might be!
There are people with money out there, don't you worry...

[payaya]

200 isnt a lot of vehilces anyway. A few for track racing a few for Mark skaife a few for the boss at Croydon that leaves nothing for the public!

Obviously there are more than 200 hsv dealerships out there? Thats less than 1 each?

[Vulture]

On another quote from the article that I found very interesting. " There`s potential for a less exotic Commodore using the 427 engine"

Now that quote made me open my eyes this morning :lmao: GTSR anyone?

And that will absolutely shaft anyone stupid enough to buy a W427 when a cheaper car with the same mechanicals comes out...

[TLX]

And that will absolutely shaft anyone stupid enough to buy a W427 when a cheaper car with the same mechanicals comes out...


Spot on Simon....I think there maybe something happening down the track:)

[payaya]

Didnt they have issues selling the SV300 back in the days?

Also has this vehicle been confirmed its being released????

[BadMac]

I cant see this thing not selling out. Obviously HSV would have done their research and determined if the project is worthwhile. I cant see them building this vehicle as a "design exercise".

A lot of people will buy this vehicle and I dont think finance would be the issue, it would be a question of insurance. Obviously because they are so rare, every machine stolen would be stripped or shipped overseas. Its like the GTHO's once they are gone, they are gone!

Why Overseas, no other market in the world would value a W427, offshore its just a Pontiac or Vauxhall with a GM 427 in it (cheaper to buy direct from GM Performance). The only value is in AUS, so for 20-40 years it will DEVALUE!

Having said that, I have a mate who put down a deposit but so far has been told 0 for NZ. If I had the money to not worry about what I bought i'd buy one just for the carpark bragging rights.

[seedyrom]

we all know though, all of the HDT/HSV hero cars didn't sell in the show rooms.

NONE of them sold out (actually, maybe the VR/VS GTS-R did?) ... Look at them now.

Will be interesting.
This car has no racing heritage, (at least the HRT-427 did), so will it be worth anything in years to come? Who can say?

All I know is there's enough people, with enough disposable income these days.

Good luck to them.

There's no use bagging what you can't afford (or can afford to throw away).

[payaya]

Why Overseas, no other market in the world would value a W427, offshore its just a Pontiac or Vauxhall with a GM 427 in it (cheaper to buy direct from GM Performance). The only value is in AUS, so for 20-40 years it will DEVALUE!

Having said that, I have a mate who put down a deposit but so far has been told 0 for NZ. If I had the money to not worry about what I bought i'd buy one just for the carpark bragging rights.

GTHO's are suspected to be taken overseas when stolen.

[Cool Daddy]

150K for a LS7 IS A BIT OVERPRICED.

Go with this option instead -
1) CLUBSPORT $75K
2) LS7 MOTOR $22K
3) Blower kit to suite say $10k
4) Brakes+clutch+install $10K
Total $117,000
Less LS3 Motor to sell - $6K

Grand total for a Clubsport+LS7+Blower totals $111,000 for a half decent plan B.

[seedyrom]

Don't forget .... available today ;)

[Excellent]

150K for a LS7 IS A BIT OVERPRICED.

Go with this option instead -
1) CLUBSPORT $75K
2) LS7 MOTOR $22K
3) Blower kit to suite say $10k
4) Brakes+clutch+install $10K
Total $117,000
Less LS3 Motor to sell - $6K

Grand total for a Clubsport+LS7+Blower totals $111,000 for a half decent plan B.

I could get a GTS and F6 and still left money over, for less than the price of a W427. I agree with most here, it's too much money for a Holden. Maybe the GTR is a better choice. It's almost guaranteed exclusitivity.

[planetdavo]

150K for a LS7 IS A BIT OVERPRICED.

Go with this option instead -
1) CLUBSPORT $75K
2) LS7 MOTOR $22K
3) Blower kit to suite say $10k
4) Brakes+clutch+install $10K
Total $117,000
Less LS3 Motor to sell - $6K

Grand total for a Clubsport+LS7+Blower totals $111,000 for a half decent plan B.
Doing comparisons via this method is very simplistic.
The above conversion would have no hope of meeting new car ADR's, nor would it have a hope of passing engineering approval from any manufacturer. Plus, it would never ever be considered as anything more than a b@stard child HSV.
It might go as hard, or even harder, but it's easy to make something quick, whereas it takes a lot of effort and dollars for an ADR'd "genuine" car to achieve the same result.
The people buying this car wont be too concerned with the sorts of questions many of you guys think are important.
They will have plenty of money, and they wont really care whether they could do it themselves cheaper.

[BadMac]

GTHO's are suspected to be taken overseas when stolen.


They have no value overseas. I mean in the US, whats a PIII GTHO other than an old car without any redeeming features. No, the only place with any value is in Australia, even in NZ, they are undervalued (even the 4 PIII's here are worth more in Aus, as are the Monaros and XU1, hence why so many Aussies buy them and ship them home). Sorry but the "shipped offshore" is an urban legend, they are broken down and used to rebirth GTHO's, nothing more.

[payaya]

I see people buying this vehicle as an investment (ala GTHO) rather than drive it.


They have no value overseas. I mean in the US, whats a PIII GTHO other than an old car without any redeeming features. No, the only place with any value is in Australia, even in NZ, they are undervalued (even the 4 PIII's here are worth more in Aus, as are the Monaros and XU1, hence why so many Aussies buy them and ship them home). Sorry but the "shipped offshore" is an urban legend, they are broken down and used to rebirth GTHO's, nothing more.

Corrupt overseas collectors.

[offshore]

I could get a GTS and F6 and still left money over, for less than the price of a W427. I agree with most here, it's too much money for a Holden. Maybe the GTR is a better choice. It's almost guaranteed exclusitivity.

Or in the USA you could buy 3 yep 3 Z06 corvettes for the drive away price of the W427 lol how ripped off we are in Aus.

[payaya]

It is too much money but obviously not for all. I dont see how a set of 8 piston calipers, 400kws with semi slicks will help me on the road as the limits of the vehicle would obviously be very high.

If I had a track day on I would go buy a Ferrari or something.

[BLQWN]

After an hour reading 25 pages at 2am in the morning I've come to a conclusion...I still can't sleep.
The GTR sounds the goods if you want bragging rights that it's blablabla seconds faster than this and that at your local track.
Me - never been a Nissan fan so would never have one- couldn't care if they were 70k.
Narrow minded-yep, Up to date with the latest tecnology-nup. Carefactor -nil.
W427 is not my cuppa tea either, overpriced, but I would have one over the GTR, more multi purposed, but I would never be able to drive either to their full potential anyway.

Suprised no-one bought up the old Bathurst, VN Group A vs Godzilla war.
The VN's were 64k then -in 1991, thats 17 years ago!!
People compared those two back then, both on the track and in the public, and again, no real comparison IMO, 4WD, turboed, the Holden did very well to stand up to the "import" and good VN's are selling for 80-90k now.
Good luck with your choice.

[Martin_D]

Suprised no-one bought up the old Bathurst, VN Group A vs Godzilla war.
The VN's were 64k then -in 1991, thats 17 years ago!!
People compared those two back then, both on the track and in the public, and again, no real comparison IMO, 4WD, turboed, the Holden did very well to stand up to the "import" and good VN's are selling for 80-90k now.
Good luck with your choice.

Holden got absolutely slaughtered in that 'war'. Crying team owners and devastated crowd bogans were shattered that a 2.6 litre twin cam 24 valve twin turbo four wheel drive could literally devastate a primeval cast iron pressed tin rocker equipped 5 litre. Even totally robbed of boost and weighed down to be the heaviest cars in the field the good old GTR still wiped the floor with Holdens finest. Dont expect anything to change now either :lol:

Heres a refresher.... :)
YouTube - The Power of A Nissan Skyline GTR (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liymTYuNs2A)

[planetdavo]

Holden got absolutely slaughtered in that 'war'. Crying team owners and devastated crowd bogans were shattered that a 2.6 litre twin cam 24 valve twin turbo four wheel drive could literally devastate a primeval cast iron pressed tin rocker equipped 5 litre. Even totally robbed of boost and weighed down to be the heaviest cars in the field the good old GTR still wiped the floor with Holdens finest. Dont expect anything to change now either :lol:

I think you have nailed exactly why this car will sell, even though you obviously don't realise it.
This will sell because it is not a turbo'd, AWD, high tech Japanese rocket. It will be bought by people that actually want a bogan Aussie rocket, even if it is a little slower! They will buy it because "we" did it, and they don't want the GTR because "they" did it overseas.
I reckon I know which one will be worth more in the future if stored away with low km's....

[Vulture]

Spot on Simon....I think there maybe something happening down the track:)

Maybe a special edition GTS or something for us bogans with big wings etc? :lol: I have read a hint like that elsewhere. Hey, I would love a W427 and would pay $100-110K for one but never more than that. Good on the guys who will/can but not for this bogan. I think it is a reasonably strong proposition for another LS7 powered commodore variant that is more of a mainstream/affordable model as it would make sense for HSV to recoup some of the costs in doing all the work putting the LS7 into the W427 (dry sump problems etc) or maybe they will do a wet sump version which would keep the W427 always exclusive? Well I can dream...

[Martin_D]

It will be bought by people that actually want a bogan Aussie rocket, even if it is a little slower! They will buy it because "we" did it, and they don't want the GTR because "they" did it overseas.

Interesting observation :)
You might want to mix in some different circles Davo, as the guys I know that are in the position to - and actually do - drop $200K on a motor car really dont rate a $170K Commodore :cool:

Value for Money seems to be the biggest issue :lol:

[planetdavo]

Interesting observation :)
You might want to mix in some different circles Davo, as the guys I know that are in the position to - and actually do - drop $200K on a motor car really dont rate a $170K Commodore :cool:

Value for Money seems to be the biggest issue :lol:

This is Australia.
Not every one is up themselves and must have an import. There are buyers out there for the reason I described.
Some wont buy a GTR because it has the same corporate badge as a Micra or a Tiida.
Think about it.

[BadMac]

Interesting observation :)
You might want to mix in some different circles Davo, as the guys I know that are in the position to - and actually do - drop $200K on a motor car really dont rate a $170K Commodore :cool:

Value for Money seems to be the biggest issue :lol:


If value for money was the biggest issue then they wouldn't be buying any car over about $50k. I think the badge is the biggest issue in the higher $$$ markets.

Having said that, Davo has a good point. 200 cashed up bogans who want the best Australia can produce, yup its a very small niche and 200 may be to many, but there are people who will buy it because its a Holden that hands "most" Euros their marching orders and because it will be a very exclusive club.

[Martin_D]

If value for money was the biggest issue then they wouldn't be buying any car over about $50k. I think the badge is the biggest issue in the higher $$$ markets.

There are plenty of $50K cars that arent real good value for money.... :eek:


...but there are people who will buy it because its a Holden that hands "most" Euros their marching orders and because it will be a very exclusive club.

Dont count on it :)
It will be interesting to see how many from here put their hard earned over the counter for one :teach:

[planetdavo]

You've got to love the internet.
The car hasn't even been produced for sale yet, and we already have hundreds, if not thousands of opinions on whether it is already a success, or more likely with this particular forum, a failure, before one has even been delivered...

[Martin_D]

Are you in the market for a $170K car davo? :)

[planetdavo]

Are you in the market for a $170K car davo? :)
I wouldn't spend this much on either. I put my money in shares and property.

[spank]

davo your too much :rofl: i agree, but like anyone else i have an opinion as well, my prediction is this, HSV will build more than they can sell, they will drop in value in the first 5 years, big time, then hold at that money for another 5 to 8 years, then as some get stolen, written off etc they will start to be scarce and then the values will start to go back up, more than the original price tag? i dont know, but anyone who has the funds to buy one new probably isnt thinking investment, more of a new toy, that is probably on the company books or something anyway thats tax effective, so after tax its not that big a deal, its the only way id buy one. anyway id still love to see it built, i saw it at the mims and i liked it and id have one in the gargage anyday, one more thing, its only expensive if you cant afford it :)

[planetdavo]

Good input spank.
"Employees" rarely spend this sort of money. Not if they are smart anyway. Pretty much limited to successful business owners, top level sports stars and sharemarket/property success stories.

[NickS]

... anyone who has the funds to buy one new probably isnt thinking investment, more of a new toy, that is probably on the company books or something anyway thats tax effective, so after tax its not that big a deal

Depreciation limit is $57,123 ... so the W427 will be no more tax effective than an SSV.

:yup:

Seriously, I COULD afford one, I just can bring myself to spend that sort of money for so little gain over a regular GTS. Sure, it may be faster, but 99% of my time in the car I'm either in traffic or I have the wife and kids with me. Our run of the mill bogan GTS is more than fast enough for that sort of use.

Having said that ... I'll definitely keep an eye on the 2nd hand market over the next few years, I might pick one up one day if the price is right ... who knows.

:confused:

[seldo]

I see people buying this vehicle as an investment (ala GTHO) rather than drive it.

Corrupt overseas collectors.
Reds under the beds too...

[spank]

Depreciation limit is $57,123 ... so the W427 will be no more tax effective than an SSV.

:yup:

Seriously, I COULD afford one, I just can bring myself to spend that sort of money for so little gain over a regular GTS. Sure, it may be faster, but 99% of my time in the car I'm either in traffic or I have the wife and kids with me. Our run of the mill bogan GTS is more than fast enough for that sort of use.

Having said that ... I'll definitely keep an eye on the 2nd hand market over the next few years, I might pick one up one day if the price is right ... who knows.

:confused:

close, but im advised that the limit is $57009 was for 06/07 anyway :bawl: even so, then all maintence and running costs are deductable, but im not sure if you finance the whole amount for the car, say 175k, is the interest componant of the repayments fully deductable or only on the 57k, even so depreciating 57k then claiming the interest componant and fuel, tyres, servicing, etc, has to help, maybe some one on here is more up to date on these matters than me can clarify

[Martin_D]

.....Seriously, I COULD afford one, I just can bring myself to spend that sort of money for so little gain over a regular GTS....

And there it is in a nutshell, one of the best value cars you can buy (VE Clubbie/GTS) versus what would seem to be one of the worst.... :cool:

[BLQWN]

that a 2.6 litre twin cam 24 valve twin turbo four wheel drive could literally devastate a primeval cast iron pressed tin rocker equipped 5 litre.

That about sums it up, as I posted before, no comparison then, none now.

[planetdavo]

Seriously, I COULD afford one, I just can bring myself to spend that sort of money for so little gain over a regular GTS. Sure, it may be faster, but 99% of my time in the car I'm either in traffic or I have the wife and kids with me. Our run of the mill bogan GTS is more than fast enough for that sort of use.

Using this argument, one of course could argue that an SS is barely any slower than a GTS, for $30,000 less again...:hide:

[NickS]

close, but im advised that the limit is $57009 was for 06/07 anyway :bawl:

Not close ... exact. The limit changed from $57,009 for FY07 to $57,123 for FY08.

:D


And there it is in a nutshell, one of the best value cars you can buy (VE Clubbie/GTS) versus what would seem to be one of the worst.... :cool:

I have to agree with you 100% on that one ... :yup:


Using this argument, one of course could argue that an SS is barely any slower than a GTS, for $30,000 less again...:hide:

That's why I got one of each instead of 2 HSV's ... :)

IMO the HSV has enough bells and whistles (plus the badge) to justify the extra $25K ... the GTS (or Senator) has all the toys that the W427 will have, it just a little less power. It's ridiculous (IMO again) to spend that extra $100K to get something that I will never use anyway.

I'm just explaining why I won't be buying one ... my logic doesn't apply to everyone.

[The-V8-Power]

Nick you also got pretty much everything it has besides the LS7 and the T6060 manual box and them wheels im not to much a fan of.

You got the MRC, the same seats basically and all the other goodies.

Does the W427 even have the Bose stereo that the Grange has?

[RED R8]

I havn't read all the posts here but to answer your question I would buy the GTR R35.. I see the W427 as a bit pricey for a Commodore and the Nissan as a supercar beater.

[spank]

Not close ... exact. The limit changed from $57,009 for FY07 to $57,123 for FY08.

:D

cool i stand corrected :) ive only just done my 06/07 tax! well that was big of them :flipoff:

[TH0R]

I see the W427 as a bit pricey for a Commodore and the Nissan as a supercar beater.

Hit the nail on the head.

the commodore architecture was based as a family car. not a performance car.

the nissan architecture was derived as a performance vehicle/supercar/track weapon.

you dont spend 170k on a family car. Unless you're rich and deluded.

You dont scrimp on a track weapon. unless youre a pussy.

[seank]

from a performance point of view, the skyline sh*ts all over the w427, Haltech has already run a 11.1 @ 124 mph , 100% stock except for upping the boost.

YouTube - Haltech R35 GTR Runs 11.1 @ 124mph (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_EUvR4RW4)

[LSX-438]

Both. the W427 for daily duties and the R35 for the track!

[TLX]

Both. the W427 for daily duties and the R35 for the track!


Sounds like a plan Dunc.....just gotta sell more burgers:)

[cosmo vyss]

Nick you also got pretty much everything it has besides the LS7 and the T6060 manual box and them wheels im not to much a fan of.

You got the MRC, the same seats basically and all the other goodies.

Does the W427 even have the Bose stereo that the Grange has?

Sorry going off topic here. Would the new T6060 manual box be able to be fitted to vt-vz range?
I thought I would ask the question as replacement time for these models comes up it could be a better option than the older box.

JB

[UnnamedPlayer]

from a performance point of view, the skyline sh*ts all over the w427, Haltech has already run a 11.1 @ 124 mph , 100% stock except for upping the boost.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RU_EUvR4RW4

Yeah, but you could have this Volvo which is stock, except for upping the boost.

YouTube - overboosted volve 850 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xCpsuUT8AU)

dumbass.

[planetdavo]

Nick you also got pretty much everything it has besides the LS7 and the T6060 manual box and them wheels im not to much a fan of.

You got the MRC, the same seats basically and all the other goodies.

Much of the extra expense is the actual development costs of making it all work as well as meeting GM's corporate engineering requirements, averaged over a very small run of vehicles.
A bit of a list of what has needed to have sh!t loads of money spent on.
Design, develop and tool up for...
Installation of LS7, including unique radiator, OTR, oil cooler, oil tank and PCM tuning, and testing the affects of the extra performance on the integrity of the body shell, suspension parts and so forth.
Different gearbox.
Stronger tailshaft.
Stronger diff internals.
Bigger brakes with 6 piston front calipers and more expensive floating design rotors.
Unique design front bumper.
New design wheels.
New design trim.
New design ceramic coated headers, larger cats and twin 2.75 inch exhaust with active rear mufflers.
Unique MRC tune with new firmer, lower springs.
Unique, stronger pedal box for heavier LS7 clutch.
Once all this is installed, it has to meet ADR's including crash testing, and it also has to meet GM's corporate engineering requirements. Then there is the development of repair methods for the factory training, advertising costs, developing a part numbering system and parts backup. All this whilst still offering a 3 year/100,000km warranty!
All of this is way above and beyond the simple "drive-in, drive-out" $30,000 LS7 special at your local backyarder. Nothing else gets changed, and the car looks exactly the same as the one you drove in! Oh, and maybe you get a 12 month warranty on the engine, and of course the rest of the driveline now has ZERO factory warranty. Do so at your own risk.
Anyone in motorsport knows that increasing performance reliably is a law of diminishing returns. The faster you go, and it starts costing massively more for just an increasingly smaller return...the reason a car like this wont be massively quicker for twice the price!

[mustanger]

Yes, you have a few good points there Davo, which leads me to the next question.

Would it be viable to have a stripper version of this car without the fruit?

All the development and testing costs would have been covered by the W427.

[The-V8-Power]

Thanks for that davo. :)
And im with mustanger,
maybe a VF GTS-R?
If they did i wouldnt see it costing more then the W427, maybe equal or a bit less.

[phunky_monkey]

This is Australia.
Not every one is up themselves and must have an import. There are buyers out there for the reason I described.
Some wont buy a GTR because it has the same corporate badge as a Micra or a Tiida.
Think about it.

Why does wanting to own an import make someone up themselves?

An R35 GT-R is a thoroughbred, that is currently wiping the floor with it's competition, the W427 is a glorified berlina/Omega at the end of the day. I don't want to offend anyone, and I love my glorified berlina which does everything I need of it for a daily driver, but I'm under no illusions of grandeur just because it says HSV on it instead of Holden. Neither of these badges have Porsche written on them, so let's not get ahead of ourselves on a badge war. :)

My 2c

Dane

[Holden Man]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/13664/r35-nissan-gt-r-arrives-in-brisbane/

"R35 Nissan GT-R arrives in Brisbane
6 Jun, 2008 12 Comments

If there is one thing that gets on Nissan Australia’s nerves, it’s privately imported R35 Nissan GT-Rs. With the company trying its best to secure full volume certification by early 2009, grey importers are cashing in on the huge demand for the supercar killer..........."

I wonder who the lucky soul is ?

[LJCHSV]

There's a car dealership in Spencer st Nth melb, who had a black 1 sitting in its driveway/footpath and couple of weeks back.....it absoloutley stopped traffic!...i went for a bit of a snoop..was good to get up close to the finished product.....Awesome car!


Cheers

[phunky_monkey]

Yeah, there's quite a few in the country now. So much for 2009! :P

[SV346]

Think of it this way, the 427 will have more than enough grunt for the street, do you really need a gtr? If you know youl be doing track days and that, the gtr will be the go but for the street the 427 is the way to go... And the cops would pick on you like no tomorrow in a gtr mate, its the way it is. It all comes down to practicality and what you need /want out of it, also what would be easier to live with driving every day? but good luck with it though mate i wish i was able to be making a decision like yours :p

[Hoangkar]

It's mosly for you to decide on space in side the car over super sport car.:spew:

[FURBY]

Drive both then decide