HSV W427 7 Litre Or Nissan GTR R35...which One To Buy

[mustanger]

I have been to Melbourne Motorshow twice now and have narrowed it down to two cars....The HSV W427 or the New NISSAN GTR R35. Some will say it is not fair to compare these two cars because they are aimed at two different markets,but I disagree. They are both high performance ,factory backed vehicles within the same price bracket of $130-$150K. One is a 4 door 7 litreV8 ,370kw 640nm RWD and the other is a TT 353kw AWD with 588nm,but they will both do what I am after and provide motoring pleasure.

I have been waiting for the 427 7 litre since the VE were announced and was sure I would be buying one ,when and if they came out. Having seen them in the flesh now,I am not so sure. A $150k for a Commodore is alot money as is $150k for a Nissan , but I am starting to sway towards the GTR. The technology and performance of this car is amazing(0-100 in 3.5 and standing 400m in in 11.7 sec. The W427 on the other hand is advertised at 0-100 in 4.7 sec and the 400m in around 12.6- 12.7 secs. So from a performance factor, there is really a clear choice (The GTR) but I would have loved to buy the 427 ,as I have been waiting for this car.

I have noticed that a few well healed members here, have put deposits down for the GTR instead of the 7 Litre , and I may be another one.

Have HSV missed the mark with the W427 or is it too early to tell? Maybe we were expecting too much from the 427 and our expectations were too high. As a past and current GTS owner, I think we were craving for more than what they have delivered and maybe if they want to charge $150k for a car, they might have to lift their game.

As I stated earlier, I really wanted the 427 to be something really special,but in this instance,I am swaying towards the GTR.......What do other prospective buyers think?.......Cheers John

[_MetalliX_]

Get the GT-R beyond a doubt.

If you ask me, HSV are taking advantage of its loyal customers with this poor excuse for a supercar. It may have a more powerful engine, but it barely translates to the road. You would be better off putting some money into your current car so that it can outperform the W427 and is uniquely yours.

The GT-R is engineering perfection, a true supercar which will quite happily run rings around anything Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini have to offer - for less than a quarter of the price.

[BadMac]

I'm not a buyer of either, but if I was, I think the Datsun would be hard to go past. The W427 would have been great last year. Now its got competition and if the GTR comes in around $135k its unbeatable value, its a true supercar.

[KPWISHN]

H/C, Zorst, fuel system and tune and that 370kw will turn into 370rwkw.

Really comes down to what you want out of the vehicle and if you plan to modify it and so on.

The Nissan would be my pick if I was spending that much coin. It's more of a drivers car. The W427 would be more of a collectors shed car.

[EfiJy]

easy gtr. y spend 150 on a commawhore

[spank]

have you got a firm price on either car? the difference in price could be as much as 30k ( would buy some decent mods) from what ive read on pricing for either car. as im not in the market for either car i dont think im qualified to give advice, my next car will be a lwb luxury car, except for one thing, in time to come and obviously depending on what HSV does in fitting 7 litre engines to other models, the
W427 in my opinion will hold its value better, if this does not matter to you then drive both cars and see which one puts the biggest smile on your face. if both cars are 150k then imho they are both expensive for a "holden" or a "datsun" either way i think everyone here wishes they had to make such a decision.

[macca33]

I hear where you are coming from John (even though I am not in your position), but I have to ask, just what were people actually thinking HSV were going to do??? My opinion is that they have probably taken the platform as far as they can at the moment. People wanted a 427 and HSV delivered.

Without stating the obvious, the HSV or any Commodore is going to suffer from the fact that they are built on a family car platform. The Nissan is a pure, dedicated sports car - there is no comparison in my opinion.

I think to compare them, apart from the price-point view, serves little purpose.

Don't take it as me having a crack, I just think that your expectations of what HSV would be able to produce in an emissions/ADR compliant production vehicle may be a bit higher than something that HSV themselves are prepared to provide. I also understand that for the numbers HSV may project in relation to sales of these things, they don't care to go further, in any event.

The sheer size of Nissan vs HSV, as well as the money that is able to be spent, by the respective companies, on the development of these types of vehicle differ markedly. As do the base chassis/designs that they have to commence with. It really is apples and oranges, IMO.

Cheers and good luck with the choice - I hope to see you in one of these things when I get home in July.

Macca

[CarlFST60L]

The R35 easily. The 427 would need to run in the 11's stock and lap within a second or two of a 911 GT3 at say EC for me to fork out that sort of cash.

[GDB]

GT-R, beyond a shadow of a doubt here.

I would even place the C63 and M3 above the W427 in terms of desirability factor.

EDIT: next MOTOR magazine has the CSV 7.0L vs M3 vs C63 I believe? Wait for that issue and see if a 7.0L HSV is worth the price...

[Steve-LS2]

have you got a firm price on either car? the difference in price could be as much as 30k from what ive read on pricing for either car. as im not in the market for either car i dont think im qualified to give advice, my next car will be a lwb luxury car, except for one thing, in time to come and obviously depending on what HSV does in fitting 7 litre engines to other models, the
W427 in my opinion will hold its value better, if this does not matter to you then drive both cars and see which one puts the biggest smile on your face. if both cars are 150k then imho they are both expensive for a "holden" or a "datsun" either way i think everyone here wishes they had to make such a decision.

I think you are seriously devaluing the amount of R&D that has gone into the GTR by Nissan. They are also as far removed from Datsun now as Toyota are from producing a decent performance vehicle.

I don't know if you realise how many hours have gone into designing and testing the GTR, probably about 10 times the price and thats being conservative.

The HSV has probably had about 1000 hours of development time in total.

$150,000 for a COMPLETE Supercar, which in stock form would beat anything in this country, in a straight line, around corners and slowing down. All while looking unique and snapping necks at every turn.

OR

$150,000 for a GTS (4 door Commodore) with a SUPERCAR Engine, big brakes and passenger car comfort. This car also comes with an unattractive front end and to match the performance you would have to spend another $40K on mods.

I know where my money would go (if i had enough) :lol:

GTR all the way.

[eldan89]

Hmm a glorified GTS or a Porsche eating Skyline.... I think you'd be mad not to get the skyline, so far i've only seen good press about it.

If I was in the position where I wanted a HSV for track fun I'd probably get an SS or Clubsport over a W427 and have it fully built with probably change to spare.

I'm not saying that the W427 is a crap car, I think we've all gotten used to the wild HSV/Holden concepts and have set the bar really high. But saying that $150k buys you many nice euro and jap muscle cars such as the Skyline, BMW M3, Audi RS4 etc......Also I thought I heard the Holden rep at the motor show say that the W427 has a very limited warranty?

[KeenGolfer]

I can't afford either, but I'd buy the W427 over the GTR without a doubt.

[spank]

I think you are seriously devaluing the amount of R&D that has gone into the GTR by Nissan. They are also as far removed from Datsun now as Toyota are from producing a decent performance vehicle.

I don't know if you realise how many hours have gone into designing and testing the GTR, probably about 10 times the price and thats being conservative.

The HSV has probably had about 1000 hours of development time in total.

$150,000 for a COMPLETE Supercar, which in stock form would beat anything in this country, in a straight line, around corners and slowing down. All while looking unique and snapping necks at every turn.

OR

$150,000 for a GTS (4 door Commodore) with a SUPERCAR Engine, big brakes and passenger car comfort. This car also comes with an unattractive front end and to match the performance you would have to spend another $40K on mods.

I know where my money would go (if i had enough) :lol:

GTR all the way.

i dont doubt that nissan has spent a lot of money on this car in development and i think it would an awesome car to have in the garage, and i didnt recommend that john buy either car, but the GTR is a totally different car to the W427, the W427 may be unattractive to you, and thats your opinion, did you go to the motorshow? the W427 looks very good in the "flesh", much better than any picture ive seen. GTR looked good also, but niether car makes me want to rush and get one. the cars are not really comparable, one is a muscle car the other a sports car, if the W427 was a coupe then maybe it might be a different story. im just stating that imho, in time to come the
W427 will be worth more as a rare limited build aussie muscle car. if i had to choose i would buy the W427. both cars are too fast to use on our roads to their full potential and i wouldnt put either on the track, 150k is too much to put into a guard rail, so that leaves wank factor :smilesandbanana:

[KPWISHN]

Never really thought of it like that. Good post spank

[LSX-438]

It would be a crying shame if someone bought these cars and never took them to the track. Commodores suffer with oil issues at the track, the 427 with the dry sump would overcome that and be an interesting base for a track car. And obviously the R35 is primarly intended to compete with the 911 turbo, there is so much track inspired focus happening there.

In this segment I would suggest evaluating an RS4 too (you should be able to snag a low-kay demo for about the same price).

If HSV produced something like the GTS-R (or Coupe 60 with 427) I would take that in a heartbeat (over ANY other car) but in the presented spec, the W427 just looks far too soft for me. I would take the GTR or RS4.

[Steve-LS2]

W427 will be worth more as a rare limited build aussie muscle car.

mmm let me see, when was the last time HSV did a totally wild car in a limited build??

oh yes the legendary GTS-R, HSV only made 75 of these and you can get one now for about $50K, harldy holding it's value, since they were upward of $80K when new.

HSV plan on making about 4 of these per week, and from what i am led to believe they will all be in the same Walkinshaw silver that the Walkinshaw VL was in. So in a year HSV are expecting 200 sold, hardly limited but obviously not mass produced like the GTR is.

Still, unless the warranty is just the same as any other new car the GTR is a better bet. Japan and the US have them already and go fastER bits are already available, for not too much more money than modifying an R34 GTR.

As you said you can't really compare them and in the end all these forums are essentially is a big bunch of opinions with some facts from knowledgeable people thrown in.

[Swordie]

They are different cars. The Nissan’s competitor is a Porsche (sport car). The HSV would be a sedan like the M5. If you need something to carry the family around in the HSV is the obvious choice.

[spank]

oh, looks like they hold money pretty well if you dont drive it much and look after it
http://www.australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle_view/101613
http://www.australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle_view/108105

[VY18s]

The GTR's fast, but it's also ugly. IMHO

I would most likely get the W427, as I don't care about track racing.

Besides I think the W427 would be alot more comfortable to drive in.

[Uncle Tone]

For the amount you are going to drive it Mustanger get yourself a second hand Ferrari 355 or 360. By the time both of those cars come out a 360 Modena will be down to that price.

Or.....spend 20K and put a 427 into what you have, and spend some coin on making that go faster....much better result in the end.

$130,000.00 is stupid money for anything from Holden....or Datsun.

[mustanger]

The W427 is a lot better car in the flesh as most people are saying :yup:, but I dont know if it is a $60k better car than a current GTS. That may be half the problem! I am finding it hard to justify where the extra money has gone. I do understand that there are development costs , testing, compliance etc.... but $60k extra:doh:. If it were a more realistic price, the decision might have been a bit easier . Like I said earlier, I really wanted to buy the 427, but dont want to be fooled by HSV ,thinking it is a bargain.

The HSV rep was really trying hard to justify the costs and ,at one time ,had no real answer.Time will tell the true price point of this car, but don`t be surprised if it closer to $120k than to $150k. Both manufacturers are taking ,expressions of interests and deposits at the moment, but in time the real RRP will be set.

[HSVDKB]

oh, looks like they hold money pretty well if you dont drive it much and look after it
http://www.australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle_view/101613
http://www.australianmusclecarsales.com.au/muscle_view/108105

Heres a third one http://www.trademe.co.nz/Trade-Me-Motors/Cars/Holden/auction-143435161.htm

[will2k]

I'd go the GTR too and get a car with supercar performance for 1/3 of the price.

It's faster and doesnt use as much petrol as the HSV either.

[jezza85]

:shock: At a price of 130k-150k I reckon I would rather spend the money on building my own street machine, A nice old school muscle car or something like that.:)

[boyley]

Not tryin to change the subject here but I would throw the Z06 into this mix.

0-60- Z06 3.6 seconds
Max HP SAE- Z06 505HP
Nuerburging Lap times: Z06- 7:42:99
Cornering- .99g
Braking 70-0- 154ft
Top Speed- 190 gov limited (mph)
MPG city/hwy/ave 17/27/24

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/boylero/ext_gallery08.jpg

Excellent bang for your buck US$75k.

[Ron SS]

Gee, John, I wish I had your "problem"!! I have always thought that HSV cars are overpriced and I fail to see the improvement in this latest 7 litre version over your current GTS. If you have ever owned a 2 door car, you will realise that they can be a pain sometimes. You soon get sick of the cramped cabin. Don't give up on the Camaro ... it looks great and will be at a realistic price too. I lusted after a 350Z ... until I drove one!!, then it soon fizzled out. The latest Motor picks the Mercedes C63 over the CSV 7 Litre and M3. Drive one of those, it just may be the best all round vehicle for you.

[vscorsa]

Or actually buy the 911 turbo which they are all trying to beat. I bet you could find a one owner few years old for that price range.

Plus the porsche doesn't have to get rebuilt as often as the highly strung GTR.

Also you will be driving a porsche.....

My

2c

[jezza85]

Not tryin to change the subject here but I would throw the Z06 into this mix.

0-60- Z06 3.6 seconds
Max HP SAE- Z06 505HP
Nuerburging Lap times: Z06- 7:42:99
Cornering- .99g
Braking 70-0- 154ft
Top Speed- 190 gov limited (mph)
MPG city/hwy/ave 17/27/24

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh166/boylero/ext_gallery08.jpg

Excellent bang for your buck US$75k.

Nice call, just changed my mind from the old school muscle car to that:rofl:lol.

[will2k]

The Corvette is great bang for your buck if you live in the US but here they are still very expensive at about 240,000 Aus $

Also with the HSV i wouldnt pay 80k more than a normal HSV for only 63kw more, a fancy name and because it's rare. Id rather modify a GTS or something.

[tuff304]

GTR without a doubt, but I would consider the v8 M3...

[lowriding]

mmm let me see, when was the last time HSV did a totally wild car in a limited build??

oh yes the legendary GTS-R, HSV only made 75 of these and you can get one now for about $50K, harldy holding it's value, since they were upward of $80K when new.

s.


going off those figures then yes they really do hold value very well dont they . compare to a aus delv 92 GTR skyline new was $109 k and worth about $25k now . The GTS-R does even better prices than $50k too .
I would prefer the R35 GTR if i had a choice over the 2 but theres no doubt the W427 will be a better long term investment as funny as that may sound.

[CarlFST60L]

Plus the porsche doesn't have to get rebuilt as often as the highly strung GTR.

Whats your source on this? How can you possibly already know the R35 is not reliable?

I have also heard from owners and work shops that the Porsche's arnt as rock solid as people would think.

[highlander_69r]

id take the gtr, at the end of the day id be fairly confident that the build quality would be far beyond that of the w427.

[Martin_D]

I have also heard from owners and work shops that the Porsche's arnt as rock solid as people would think.

Care to enlighten us on this one? :lol: :lol: :lol:

[seldo]

Plus the porsche doesn't have to get rebuilt as often as the highly strung GTR.

You obviously have never owned one....:shock:

[Chappy]

Well both are nice vehicle, both are awesome performers, both are EXPENSIVE but I would be looking at a couple of deep issues.

1. Re-sale value.

2. Maintenance and servicing cost.

3. Long term mileage or in simple term which vehicle will last the longest with out rebuilds.

I personal have no idea but if I was looking at spending $135 to $150 thousand dollars I would be digging deeper into it.

Christ what am I talking about where the bloody hell am I going to get that kind of money wake up Ken.

Cheers.

[DuffMan]

It would be a crying shame if someone bought these cars and never took them to the track.

If HSV produced something like the GTS-R (or Coupe 60 with 427) I would take that in a heartbeat (over ANY other car) but in the presented spec, the W427 just looks far too soft for me. I would take the GTR or RS4.

Just what I was thinking. If it were me, i'd take the GTR. In my opinion, neither are much to look at but the GTR offers so much more performance for a similar price.


It's faster and doesnt use as much petrol as the HSV either.

I doubt someone looking at spending $100 - $150k on a performance car will be influenced by a couple of extra dollars at the pump each week.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa95/duffmanls1/427.jpg
slight similarity between the two with the blacked out grills
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa95/duffmanls1/001gtr.jpg

I guess it also depends on it's desired purpose. for a weekend fun car/track car - GTR. For a M5 type family cruiser packing some serious punch then W427

[OUTAtheBloo]

Both out of the reach of most working class people.

I'll go against the norm, and say the W427. Its more practical, and has a 7litre v8. I like the sound of a V8, so the only reason id buy one....

Like lewis said, H/C 427 :bawl::bawl:

Dan

[kpop]

keep in mind that there will be around 3 different versions of the GTR. the basic model, a slightly more tuned model, and a almost full race going car pushing 400kw, with no rear seats and will belighter - equilevant to a porsche GT3.

wheras your choice with the HSV will be only the one, unless they bring out the new monaro 2 door

also if HSV are going to charge $150k, they seriosuly need to reconsider, as the competition at that price range is way out of their league.

[gollum]

Just what I was thinking. If it were me, i'd take the GTR. In my opinion, neither are much to look at but the GTR offers so much more performance for a similar price.



I doubt someone looking at spending $100 - $150k on a performance car will be influenced by a couple of extra dollars at the pump each week.

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa95/duffmanls1/427.jpg
slight similarity between the two with the blacked out grills
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa95/duffmanls1/001gtr.jpg

I guess it also depends on it's desired purpose. for a weekend fun car/track car - GTR. For a M5 type family cruiser packing some serious punch then W427

..................... or you could wait a bit,..and hot rod one of these puppies !

http://http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/tcbinc/08motorshowandbella087.jpg?t=1205139149

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/tcbinc/08motorshowandbella083.jpg?t=1205139138

http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/tcbinc/08motorshowandbella090.jpg?t=1205139154



just a thought ! ??? :)http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/tcbinc/08motorshowandbella087.jpg?t=1205139370

[OUTAtheBloo]

Can anyone else imagine v8supercar flames coming out of those side exhausts :bow:

Dan

[Uwish]

Very nice situation to be in!!!

Remember the R35 is coming out in V-Spec!!! That is the one to get.
It will be able to match the 997 GT2. But it will be a little bit more expensive.

THe W427 Im sure could be a great buy... Just depends on what you want from a car. While you say they should be classed together, I think that is totally wrong.

One is Track dedicated, built just to beat Porsche. ( Also the R35 is said to need a rebuild one a year..Motor or Wheels wrote it. Plasma bores. )
The W427, I think would be an Aussie muscle car. Edit and exhaust would see plenty more power!.
Buy what would best suit your needs. I wish I could afford either!,,,Or Both!!!!

[seldo]

.........also if HSV are going to charge $150k, they seriosuly need to reconsider, as the competition at that price range is way out of their league. I seriously doubt they will be that sort of price - they simply cannot justify it. I'd be thinking something closer to $120k which is still a lot of hoot for a Holden.

[mustanger]

If they had the Coupe 60 available with the 427, it would be an easy decision :drool::drool:

[DuffMan]

..................... or you could wait a bit,..and hot rod one of these puppies !

http://http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j173/tcbinc/08motorshowandbella087.jpg?t=1205139149
just a thought ! ??? :)

I like your thinking. IF they put the coupe60 into production and IF it looked similar to the showcar, I would sell my soul for one :)

[CarlFST60L]

Care to enlighten us on this one? :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bit off topic, but if i have to...

They must have been older cars from about <97's. The mechanic across the road from my old work use to work on various exotics back then. They did some "top end engine work on a couple" maybe just rebuilds? Along with "various hard to diagnose" faults. I will have to drop in and ask the details if you want more than that, thats all :lol:

[spank]

If they had the Coupe 60 available with the 427, it would be an easy decision :drool::drool:

now your talking john, what camaro!
as you can tell, and anyone who knows me, i am biased towards V8 gm cars, im buying a ls3 grange and then im waiting either for a camaro or if the coupe 60 gets made, one of those, so ill refer to my original post, drive both and see which ones puts the biggest smile on your face

[macca33]

I seriously doubt they will be that sort of price - they simply cannot justify it. I'd be thinking something closer to $120k which is still a lot of hoot for a Holden.

Interesting thoughts there Seldo. IF it was introduced at around 120k, it wouldn't be too much of a stretch from the VY2 GTS, which I believe broke the 100k mark when optioned up.

There is a fair bit more car to the W427 than the VY GTS, so if it was at 120k, it would be a little easier to stomach.

A 427 dry-sump Coupe 60 would be a ripper though!!!

Cheers,

Macca

[Martin_D]

Bit off topic, but if i have to...
They must have been older cars from about <97's. The mechanic across the road from my old work use to work on various exotics back then. They did some "top end engine work on a couple" maybe just rebuilds? Along with "various hard to diagnose" faults. I will have to drop in and ask the details if you want more than that, thats all :lol:

You might want to have a look at some of the <97 GTRs we fix/diagnose on a daily/weekly basis....and thats before Renault started building them :teach:
Nothing beats a Porsche for bulletproof track performance....and total race reliability. In fact they are even warranted for track day use :eek:
You get what you pay for, and while the GTR MAY prove to be a long term good nugget....it still has plenty of work left to do to become the pinnacle of all things four wheeled. At least in my books :)

[CarlFST60L]

I thought i would check out some forums just to see if the rumours were true and first hit this cam up in a very long thread about 996's

14% of 996's had engine failures :lol:




Current stats:

Out of 86 996's:
- 13.95% or 12 engine failures (eight 3.4 and four 3.6)
- 51.2% or 44 cases have had RMS. When you have it, you get it on average 1.3 times.
- 41% or 35 cases have had none of these two problems (nineteen 3.4s, fifteen 3.6, one unspecified).
In the survey, there are 35 3,6s, 47 3.4s, and four unspecified.

To summarize, the mean car in this dataset is a september 2000 996, that has a 51.2% chance of an rms problem at 38,250 Miles and a 13.95% chance of an engine failure at 48,200 Miles.


RMS distribution:
1998 5 RMS out of 8 cars in survey
1999 8 RMS out of 15 cars in survey
2000 4 RMS out of 11 cars in survey
2001 6 RMS out of 9 cars in survey
2002 10 RMS out of 15 cars in survey
2003 6 RMS out of 12 cars in survey
2004 0 RMS out of 5 cars in survey

2001 and 2002 are the worst years for RMS cases (the more frequent availability of a warranty being the the reason?).
2000 is the best year.
11 entries in the stats didn't specify the year, 5 of which were affected by RMS.

engine failure distribution:
1998 2 failures out of 8 cars in survey
1999 5 failures out of 15 cars in survey
2000 0 failures out of 11 cars in survey
2001 1 failures out of 9 cars in survey
2002 2 failures out of 15 cars in survey
2003 0 failures out of 12 cars in survey
2004 1 failure out 5 cars in survey

1999 is the worst year, followed by 1998. 2003 and 2000 are the best years.
11 entries didn't specify the year, 1 with a failure.


Complete dataset:
ID enginefailure failuremileage rms rmsmileage currentmileage enginesize year username
1 1 failure 3 RMS 36 3.6 2002 xTVR
2 1 failure no RMS 48 3.4 1998 siko
3 no failure 1 RMS 55 3.6 2001 Wetwipe
4 no failure no RMS Bumcrack
5 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
6 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
7 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
8 no failure 1 RMS 18 30 3.6 2002 steve996
9 no failure 1 RMS 55 64 3.4 1998 jonny996
10 no failure 1 RMS 53 56 3.4 1999 Ballcock
11 no failure 1 RMS 26 3.4 2001 2something
12 1 failure 10 1 RMS 50 3.4 1999 fastfreddy
13 1 failure 25 no RMS 25 3.6 2004 hussar10a
14 no failure 3 RMS 25 3.6 2003 Dreammeister
15 no failure 1 RMS 3.6 Geneve
16 no failure no RMS 3.4 Geneve
17 no failure 2 RMS 3.6 2002 whoami
18 no failure no RMS 11 3.6 2004 C4SCAB
19 no failure 1 RMS 62 3.4 1999 HONEYMON57ER
20 no failure no RMS 7 3.4 2000 mbutchers
21 no failure no RMS 5 3.6 2003 mbutchers
22 no failure 1 RMS 18 3.6 2003 mbutchers
23 no failure 1 RMS 40 60 3.4 1999 nbetts
24 no failure no RMS 25 3.6 2003 nbetts
25 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2000 R1_JON
26 no failure no RMS 3.4 Homer J
27 no failure 2 RMS 35 3.6 2003 deevee
28 1 failure 29 1 RMS 29 3.6 2002 joelasagna
29 no failure 1 RMS 48 3.6 2002 baptistsan
30 no failure no RMS 55 3.4 1999 The Griffalo
31 no failure no RMS 19 3.4 2000 Ir Baboon
32 no failure 2 RMS 30 71 3.4 2000 Vesuvius 996
33 no failure 1 RMS 42 3.4 DucatiGary
34 no failure no RMS 24 3.6 2004 andrew!
35 no failure no RMS 66 3.4 1998 EVO575
36 no failure no RMS 95 3.4 1999 Ogiii
37 no failure 3 RMS 45 3.6 2001 thepilsbury
38 no failure no RMS 32 3.6 2002 wadfa
39 no failure no RMS 67 3.4 1999 LeeME3
40 no failure no RMS 17 3.6 2004 widebody
41 1 failure 86 no RMS 3.4 1999 italiansummer
42 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.6 2003 alxce
43 1 failure 70 1 RMS 3.4 1998 TheMonster
44 no failure 1 RMS 15 3.6 2003 fulham911club
45 no failure 1 RMS 11 3.4 1999 Jessica_Wabbit
46 no failure 1 RMS 4 3.6 2003 Jessica_Wabbit
47 no failure no RMS 52 3.4 2000 tracer.smart
48 no failure 1 RMS 52 3.6 2002 Spid
49 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 2001 Neilpeel59
50 no failure 2 RMS 80 3.6 2002 flow99
51 no failure no RMS 54 3.4 Fabster
52 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.4 2000 Ragtop
53 no failure no RMS 12 3.6 2002 Ragtop
54 no failure no RMS 49 3.4 2000 Diesel130
55 no failure no RMS 56 3.6 2002 nxi20
56 no failure no RMS 9 3.6 2003 C4S 3.6
57 1 failure 75 3 RMS 65 3.4 1999 rossfitz
58 1 failure 15 no RMS 18 3.6 headlesshorseman
59 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 1999 richardb.jones
60 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 1998 gfreeman
61 1 failure 63 no RMS 63 3.4 2001 g_j_d
62 no failure 1 RMS 44 3.4 2001 welshnobby
63 no failure 1 RMS 86 3.4 1999 kVA
64 no failure no RMS 40 3.4 2000 GMMK
65 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 bigsi
66 no failure no RMS 3.4 2000 gmk666
67 no failure 2 RMS 72 96 3.4 1998 Stew The Bench
68 no failure 1 RMS 54 62 3.4 1998 mikeo996
69 no failure 1 RMS 70 3.4 1999 Rappa
70 no failure no RMS 37 3.6 2003 911Guy
71 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 2001 Naz 111
72 no failure no RMS 3.4 ricardo60
73 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 KFB 911
74 no failure 2 RMS 5 3.6 2002 riskmerchant
75 no failure no RMS 20 3.6 2003 Wurls
76 no failure no RMS 16 3.6 2003 Wurls
77 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2001 clorenzen
78 no failure 1 RMS 63 71 3.6 2002 Mousem40
79 1 failure 48 no RMS 3.4 1999 butcherboy
80 1 failure 61 no RMS 3.4 1999 johnstewart
81 no failure no RMS 45 3.4 1998 benno
82 no failure no RMS 18 3.4 2000 benno
83 no failure no RMS 10 3.6 2004 benno
84 no failure 1 RMS 33 50 3.4 2000 Mikeoupe
85 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 2001 Worzel
86 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 2002 green911


http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=48&t=400915&i=0

[Paxton]

Depends if you want a saloon or a sports car. I'd without a doubt go for the GTR.

[Martin_D]

14% of 996's had engine failures :lol:

86 cars is probably not a good cross section of Porsches total 996 sales :)
12 guys on a performance forum blew engines for god knows not reason. However if it makes you happy you ARE THE WINNER!

Porsches are shit. Go the datto :bow:
Nothing to see here please move along :lol:

[zorro]

Was the 996 when Porsche released its VarioCam or whatever it was called (teething problems?)? How many VT LS1s were recalled for engine rebuilds??

mustanger mate another apples vs oranges. ask yourself what are you going to use the car for? can you live with a mungrel track inspired suspension setup, parts, servicing etc etc. The HSV I dare say would have the go to take on euros finest 4 doors and give you everyday comfort.

the limited reading I did on the R35 is it was designed to take back the Nurburgring track record, and then sell cars. HSV gave the punter a 7 litre and added some limited edition paint and a busted arsehole bodykit (only an opinion) to a GTS donor. For the money CSVs GTS with LS7 option is not looking too bad in comparison.

[CarlFST60L]

86 cars is probably not a good cross section of Porsches total 996 sales :)
12 guys on a performance forum blew engines for god knows not reason. However if it makes you happy you ARE THE WINNER!

Porsches are shit. Go the datto :bow:
Nothing to see here please move along :lol:

Meh, theres nothing to win, and no one said they are shit. The GT2/GT3 would be one of the ultimate cars to own. But I did think it was funny to see 14 engines replaced with full stories posted of busted blocks and all the other good stuff in that thread.

I would never compare any Skyline to a Porsche, and would not compare the Nissan R35 as no one knows YET. Hopefully they have improved the quality greatly.

[HSV Listy]

IMHO strictly. I guess it depends. Genuine 5 seat V8 seven litre aussie mustle v 2 seats 2 kids in the back and a TT V6 on the GTR.
The GTR is a ricer car too. I am a V8 HSV man so that is my opinion only. May not be considered one now but in 10 years it will be like all the other R33, R34 etc GTRs getting around the street with the 5 inch exhausts sticking out the back. May not be as common but there will be plently of them

Go the HSV 427 and be proud of the aussie cars not the Jap stuff. Rich people will buy these GTRs and the line up will be huge. You will be waiting until 2010 to get one. By then there will be import agencies importing them from Japan once they reach 3 years old.
I am looking for a new car/high end second hand one in a little while but the W427 new would be a real strech at the top of my budget so the GTR would not even be considered.

Go with what you feel any way and be happy with the choice.

[Uwish]

In the USA they munch engines like no tomorrow. Every brand of car there has those stories. Like the 2001 E46 M3s had plenty of failures there, but in Australia, there were fark all.

Meh, if you have the $$$$ buy a 997 GT2. They are the business!

[offshore]

If you can look past the all the hype that the R35 is generating I really think the standard car is flawed. Seriously 1800Kgs is a hell of a lot of weight for a sports car. Watch this years Targa Tasmania if its dry I reckon the GT2 will beat it. The GTR will run out of brakes and tyres although if its wet it may a differnt story although again because of the amount of lard its carrying around I expect an EVO to beat it in the wet.

[cosmo vyss]

John,

I would just put a stroker engine in your GTS, do a bit of suspension work and you would have an awesome car on your hands. The money to upgrade is alot and you would also loose big dollars if a trade in on the GTS was done.

The GT-R is a great performer and I am sure will be a fantastic drive. I can't see it holding any real value compared to the HSV. At the end of the day its a ricer. Some may not agree with me.

If you really want a new car around the 150 mark, then the M3 would be a great buy. Also as said b4 he Audi have a few drives and both are V8's.

The coupe 60 if its produced would be the best buy imo.

Take your time and don't rush into it. Drive a few others as well. You may find a different car takes to your liking.

JB

[ti0350]

as far as the coupe 60 is concerned it's not if but when it will be made from what I've heard.. I'd take a 2 door 427 anyday, tough choice both are good cars in their own rights and really do what they were made to do... I'm a V8 Holden man through and through so I'd take the W427 as it would suit me better..

[CarlFST60L]

If you can look past the all the hype that the R35 is generating I really think the standard car is flawed. Seriously 1800Kgs is a hell of a lot of weight for a sports car. Watch this years Targa Tasmania if its dry I reckon the GT2 will beat it. The GTR will run out of brakes and tyres although if its wet it may a differnt story although again because of the amount of lard its carrying around I expect an EVO to beat it in the wet.

Good point RE tyres. I wonder how it will do with all that extra weight over such a long distance.

They are only allowed one set (or something like that), so its not really fair on the R35 as I dont think to many people would judge 'the best performance' on how well something looks after its tires over long distances.

[M///POWER]

As a motoring enthusiast and a BMW enthusiast i would choose the GTR mainly for the reasons that others have mentioned before. Performance wise IT CAN DESTROY EXOTIC CARS! Its about 5 months ago i put down a deposit on a e92 M-Sports 335, i am soon about to take delivery in around a week. If i had known the GTR was to be released in JUNE this year i would have put a deposit down on it instead. You can't go wrong with a GTR at all Mustanger, if i were in your shoes now it would be an easy choice.

[Lokky]

The resale value of the 427 will probably fall considerably, and quickly too. After all its only a HSV with a bigger engine in it - not enough to justify about a 90k premium over the basic Clubby.

Given the rate at which the GTRs are selling overseas, the demand should keep the price higher for longer.

[Uwish]

GTR is not released here in June.

[M///POWER]

i heard june but i also heard early 2009. I hoped it was june but it doesn't matter anymore. Im sure Mustanger can keep himself happy with the GTS until the official Aus release of the GTR.

[EfiJy]

cant beleive the qn was asked. only a moron d get the w472. if yr bying for investmnt then ud be crazy not to driv e the gtr. just my 2c

[spank]

in the first 12 months to 3 years the W427 will drop money, big time, wont matter tho if its run thru a business and depretiation is claimed, but in time i beleive that they will go back up, if its low in klm and kept in good condition. i dont think most people buy these cars thinking about selling them tho. i think that the biggest factor on the W427 holding its money in time to come will be if what other cars HSV fit with this engine, if they only build 200 cars they will go up imo.
when the original walky was for sale they had trouble selling them, so much so that they were still in showrooms when vn group a was on sale, now they are going up in price. people thought they were an ugly car too, remember "plastic pig". one dealer still has their walky and they want 260k for it!

[NickS]

Tuned / exhaust / OTR / suspension on a regular GTS is plenty fast enough for a family truckster and looks shit hot ... IMO. All for around $80K.

I'm going the GT-R ... without hesitation. All of the "Datsun" brigade obviously hate it, for whatever reason, but call it what you want, the results are speaking for themselves !!!

:yup:

[Gen3Unistudent]

Simple solution, If u can spend 140 or 150k for a car, then u can spend 300 and buy both. Haha

But i would take GTR. Have you seen the 5th Gear review?

YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lPZT6BfiIg)

[kpop]

in regards to the ricer GTR holding its value...anyone remember the honda nsx? even a 1991 model still goes for 60k +, so i think the GTR will retain its value, especially if demand > supply

[QuicksilverVZ]

If you are after a 4 door daily driver then for similar money I would go for a C63 AMG - you get the V8 sound and comparable straight line performance to a W427 with probably better resale.

For a weekend car then look at the GTR

[team illucid]

Simple solution, If u can spend 140 or 150k for a car, then u can spend 300 and buy both. Haha

+1 .. why not indeed :)

[theclemster]

Realy it comes down to what you want to do with the car. Cart the family around, sit it in the garage to admire, or go to track days.

The GT-R will probably go up in price due to limited supply initially, and should be held fairly tightly. Performance wise, it looks like its going to best most supersports cars. The latest issue of EVO (i think) has a test between the Audi R8, 911 turbo, M3 and GT-R. And you guessed it the GT-R won hands down. However many people look for different things in a car, and a GT-R doesnt have the exclusivity of a 430 or a GT3 RS, the so called badge factor or 'wank factor'.

The W427, will only be built to order, so in theory as many peoply who want one should be able to get one. If there are more than 200 - 300 people in Oz who are willing to pay that much (up to $150) i'd be supprised. Many are disapointed to a degree, that the w427 did not come out as a GTS-R with the LS9 or LSA, and its possible this will come in a year or two. Having said that, the W427 will be one of the most exclusive cars ever built in Oz, and you will be hailed a Holden hero should you buy one.

My guess is as a member of LS1 and Holden forums you already know what your heart is telling you.

[OUTAtheBloo]

Simple solution, If u can spend 140 or 150k for a car, then u can spend 300 and buy both. Haha

But i would take GTR. Have you seen the 5th Gear review?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lPZT6BfiIg

Doesnt inspire me to have one.....

Dan

[Vulture]

GTR for sure :hide: build quality, performance, style, desirability, engineering. The HSV would have to be considerably cheaper to tempt me over the GTR.

[spank]

If you are after a 4 door daily driver then for similar money I would go for a C63 AMG - you get the V8 sound and comparable straight line performance to a W427 with probably better resale.

For a weekend car then look at the GTR

not a bad option ill have to admit, but servicing on mercs is very expensive compared to our humble HSV'S, good looking car tho :) 140k is estimated price plus on roads
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/spankGTO/merc.jpg

[BAM*BAM]

If you are spending that much on a car, I don't think servicing is an issue.

Also you can not compare the GTR to a porsche in the reliability stakes. Porsche have been building world beating cars for over half a century, and have proven their cars are the best of. I am sick of everyone jumping on the GTR bandwagon, swearing by how good they are based on track performances. I hope to god they don't have drive train problems when released at that price for a Nissan. Don't get me wrong i have a AUs spec r31 GTS in the garage from Nissan which I love, so I'm not bagging Nissan.

Back to the original question, I would choose the HSV. There's nothing like a big V8 to power a nice big comfortable car which you can easily get in and out of and take 3 of your mates in very easily. In person it looks much better, it will be a limited run and I think it will be more than quick enough for our roads.

Just to add, when looking at a 2 door, and considering the GTR is not coming out until next year, I would look at the Audi RS5. I think it is the sexiest car in the world, it will have either the R8 V8 or the RS6's V10 twin turbo from the lambo. Now that my friends is a complete package.

Sorry for the very long post.

[yella terra]

Those Lotus Exige's are bombed. Friend over here has one, in that exact colour...much fun had in that. Doesn't compare to the straight line grunt of a decent LS1, but is wild in the twisty bits!!

[thermos]

neither.... wait for the Coupe 60.

If you must have a car now then the GTR for sure..

[OLS108]

http://www.cruisingbrisbane.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2008/post-2971-1205153747_thumb.jpg

[NickS]

not a bad option ill have to admit ... good looking car tho :)

http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/spankGTO/merc.jpg

Looks good from the front ... from every other angle it looks just like a C class ... :spew:.


http://www.cruisingbrisbane.com/forum/uploads/monthly_03_2008/post-2971-1205153747_thumb.jpg

Now make one with a pic of the 427 and title it "W427 ... still a taxi".

:rolleyes:

Seriously, the "Datsun" line is getting pretty boring, it wasn't clever or witty the first time someone used it, now it's just sad.

Porsche began building cars out of Volkswagon Beetles ... Lamborghini built tractors ...

[offshore]

Id go the.....

http://www.billputman.com/Datsun%20logo.gif


I know no-one likes them but ive always had a soft spot for a Lotus Exige... :hide:

The Lotus Exige Sport 240
- Only 6 to be made
- Adjustable Traction Control
- Adjustable Launch Control
- AP Racing Brakes
- Adjustable Suspension
- OZ Racing Rims
- $149,990

http://www.autocult.com.au/img/gallery/full/8764KM4T.jpg



That Lotus has to be one of the ugliest cars I have seen in a long time. Looks like something your kid would ride on in an amusement park :smilesandbanana:

[chevypower]

I would go the much cheaper Coupe 60, or Camaro. The W427 just isnt either a true sports car or a true muscle car, and kind of pretends to be an overpriced bit of both.

[HSVDKB]

I would go the much cheaper Coupe 60

I must have missed the decision to build the concept and the release of its pricing:confused:

[Martin_D]

Good video that Fifth gear piece :)
Thankfully it looks as though Nissan have dialled the oversteer out of the car (unlike the previous models) to stop the computer nerds jumping straight off GT4 and wrapping it straight around a tree :lol:

[chevypower]

I must have missed the decision to build the concept and the release of its pricing:confused:

I should put in a disclaimer *if the Coupe 60 does get the production go-ahead, and is priced similarly to the Camaro and previous Monaro. I didn't mean to assume that people would figure out what I meant. How silly of me.

[LJCHSV]

Hi John...just went thru your thread, im in the same situation as you know...deposit paid for a 427 and not happy in the end result but i must say it is nicer in the fleash...but it doesnt make a big enough statement for me.
I saw the GTR for the 1st time and loved it as soon as i saw it...then after staring at it for 10 minutes....the less it was doing for me(it must have been lust, not love)....i must admit..im not a track racer....im more about looking good...as i'd rather LOOK GOOD GOING SLOW...THEN LOOK BAD GOING FAST.....so im striking BOTH cars off my list and going to save up for that Aston Martin im dreaming about....as for the deposit that was on the 427....well thats going onto a Black LS3 GTS.....anyway im sure you'll make the right decision.
All the best:)

[Martin_D]

Dont be so hasty WNTED
There will be RAWS style compliance for the GTR available from the middle of this year which means low volume import GTRs will fill the void left by Nissans slow local delivery. I already have a couple of associates that have been to Japan and purchased newish GTRs (they are already popping up second hand at auction) that should be here for the end of May :)

What this means for guys like you is that a flood of cheap GTRs will be available in Australia before the initial release by Nissan. After looking at the figures (and this is just a guess as no one knows Nissan Australias retail) picking the right car at Japanese auction and then shipping/complying yourself through a registered RAWS workshop could save between $35,000 - $45,000 on the locally delivered price :cool:

While this will crush the resale of the Aussie GTR, retaining money is not why anyone sane would buy one.....instead having a market littered with cheap grey imports will put the power right back in the hands of the buyer and driver :)

[NickS]

Dont be so hasty WNTED
There will be RAWS style compliance for the GTR available from the middle of this year which means low volume import GTRs will fill the void left by Nissans slow local delivery. I already have a couple of associates that have been to Japan and purchased newish GTRs (they are already popping up second hand at auction) that should be here for the end of May :)

What this means for guys like you is that a flood of cheap GTRs will be available in Australia before the initial release by Nissan. After looking at the figures (and this is just a guess as no one knows Nissan Australias retail) picking the right car at Japanese auction and then shipping/complying yourself through a registered RAWS workshop could save between $35,000 - $45,000 on the locally delivered price :cool:

While this will crush the resale of the Aussie GTR, retaining money is not why anyone sane would buy one.....instead having a market littered with cheap grey imports will put the power right back in the hands of the buyer and driver :)

Tuna ... you may be able to shed some light on this.

There is a lot of speculation about what will be possible in terms of grey import style sales of the GT-R. Several people on SAU have been speculating on some 18 month window that Nissan AUS has to announce the GT-R as a full volume import (I don't know what makes it full volume ???) and that if this happens it will not be possible to register anything but a Nissan AUS factory type model. I also read something about a requirement for personal imports to have been held (and garaged) for a minimum of 12 months in Japan.

I know basically nothing about all the import stuff ... do you know what the actual rules are ? Is it possible that we will see road registered GT-R's on the road in AUS regardless of what Nissan AUS does ? There has been a lot of talk that it will be almost impossible to register a non-Nissan AUS example ... this may well be a load of BS for all I know ???

:confused:

[Martin_D]

Tuna ... you may be able to shed some light on this.

Its like this....for the model years Nissan doesnt bring them into Australia there will be an opportunity under the Low Volume scheme for compliance...i.e. 2008 model GTR will be available as a grey import :cool:

[Millsy]

muzzy mate honestly, even though the w427 is an awesome car, like you said yourself, where has the extra 60k gone? fair enough the engine itself takes up about around 30k, but the extra 30k? hrmm, you and i have spoken many a times about gtr's and for the same money as a w427 your getting a standard qtr mile time of 11.7, 0-100 in 3.5ish, and the second fastest car to lap the nurburbring behind the porsche carrera gt (v10 supercar)

value for money...you cant beat gtr's, its always been ahead of its time with every model nissan has made, try and get a w427 to pull off those figures???

cheers

Millsy

[Gee]

:rolleyes:

Seriously, the "Datsun" line is getting pretty boring, it wasn't clever or witty the first time someone used it, now it's just sad.

Porsche began building cars out of Volkswagon Beetles ... Lamborghini built tractors ...

I think the more annoying people find it, the more its going to get said by people who dont. Peoples emotions are amusing in that way.

Besides, plenty of people have called GT-R's Datsuns or Dattos in the past ... but then as I think a 240Z (and a couple of others) is an iconic car its always been a little complimentary in my books.

[jescam]

As far as i am concerned its not a hard question to answer............GTR all the way!

The W427 is a nice car, to expensive in my opinion :shock:, but as a quick family car it would be great!

But as NickS has said in regards to having a modded GTS ..........would you really need anything quicker for a family car?

In the end though, a die hard biased V8 fan is never going to recommend a japanese car such as the GTR, and referring to it as a Datsun! :doh:

ATM i am having somewhat of a dilemma myself, although its not the same as mustanger's decision ( R35GTR or W427 :drool: ), which i wish it was!

I am trying to decide on getting a GTRR32, R33 or R34. I only want it as a toy to drive maybe once a week/fortnight and possibly the odd track day.

But as i said at the start, in my opinion if its a performance car you are after, you can't beat the GTR for your dollar. :bow:

[BigFella]

GTR by a mile! so easy! why the hell would u spend 130-150k on a bloody commodore, it will be worth stuff all in a few years!

if i wanted a big motor performance commo and had big funds, id buy the clubby R8, blow it and do the breaks and box ect and have some change.

the GTR is in class about the commo, in every way!

[Holden Man]

Ouch !>

Some breaking info on the Nissan R35 GT-R service pricing. From the looks of it, Japanese owners will have to brace for some heavy duty maintenance costs:

Schedule Point Check Maintenance: 5,000 JPY ($43 USD) - undertray multi point check
Car Inspection: 200,000 JPY ($1727 USD)
Oil Change: 25,000 JPY ($216 USD) - 100% synthetic oil
Oil + Oil Element Change: 29,000 JPY ($250 USD) - include oil cooler service + undertray multi point check
Transmission & Differential Oil Change: 100,000 JPY ($864 USD) - include undertray multi point check
Brake Pad Change (all 4): 400,000 JPY ($3500 USD) - pad change + rotor service
Tire Change (all 4): 460,000 JPY ($4000 USD) - specially developed 20" run flat tires

Sourced from > http://rocketpunchautoblog.blogspot.com/2007/10/nissan-r35-gt-r-service-pricing-brace.html

Still an awesome machine (but expensive)

The race version looks hot >
http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/46203/2001725753831882239_rs.jpg (http://allyoucanupload.webshots.com/v/2001725753831882239)
More here > Nissan gtr GT500 2008 on Flickr - Photo Sharing! (http://www.flickr.com/photos/4x4paper/2224918031/in/photostream/)

[Avalanche]

I would go the W427, japanese does nothing for me. i would still like to be able to tow a decent trailer behind. How well will a gtr go with 4 people & a heap of luggage?? I like the idea of a factory warranted 427 with factory otr ,dry sump & mrc. Could have been better with awd. This is just my take on things, as i am not the sort of owner who babies everything. Any car i own will get used & will clock up kms. Thats what they were made for. Depreciation is not an issue, as to buy cars for resale is useless to us. The w427 could end up like the avalanche, only a couple of hundred around, & everyone says what the hell is that beast.

[Nidz]

I tell ya what.. You buy both and I'll take the HSV and then every week we can swap.. That way you get the best of both worlds.. :)

[Millsy]

I would go the W427, japanese does nothing for me. i would still like to be able to tow a decent trailer behind. How well will a gtr go with 4 people & a heap of luggage?? I like the idea of a factory warranted 427 with factory otr ,dry sump & mrc. Could have been better with awd. This is just my take on things, as i am not the sort of owner who babies everything. Any car i own will get used & will clock up kms. Thats what they were made for. Depreciation is not an issue, as to buy cars for resale is useless to us. The w427 could end up like the avalanche, only a couple of hundred around, & everyone says what the hell is that beast.

you cant make your judgement based your own personal use of the vehicle, obviously those of us who are fortunate enough to even look at buying a gtr/w427 have very deep pockets and are not shy to say the least, so im sure they would not really require this particular vehicle to fit the family comfortably, some luggage and tow the boat/caravan etc to that holiday destination, im sure a bmw x5 is quite capable of those things when the event arises, the gtr/w427 is purely a big boys toy where practicality isnt really an issue, its the weekend bruiser for those of us who are lucky enough to buy one, cheers

Millsy

[boyley]

you cant make your judgement based your own personal use of the vehicle, obviously those of us who are fortunate enough to even look at buying a gtr/w427 have very deep pockets and are not shy to say the least, so im sure they would not really require this particular vehicle to fit the family comfortably, some luggage and tow the boat/caravan etc to that holiday destination, im sure a bmw x5 is quite capable of those things when the event arises, the gtr/w427 is purely a big boys toy where practicality isnt really an issue, its the weekend bruiser for those of us who are lucky enough to buy one, cheers

Millsy

Why not. No-one set any criteria, its a personal choice.

And are you implying you will be purchasing one in the near future to replace the VY?

[Uwish]

the second fastest car to lap the nurburbring behind the porsche carrera gt (v10 supercar)
Millsy


Where did you read that rubbish? The Porsche 997 GT2 Lapped faster than the GTR. Full Street trim. Not a boosted Dato running Nurburbring Spec.

While I'd pick the GTR, It is hardly the fastest car around the ring.

[Knight Phlier]

Could $150K buy a brand new imported ZR1 2009 Corvette - with the LS9 engine?

The GTR is a performance pinnacle, but will it continue to turn heads in a couple of years time when there are many examples (Both import and sold through Nissan) in this country?

So if it is a keeper then i would got the ZR1 Corvette. If it is a track day weapon then GTR all the way!

[SchrgdVSV6]

In Aus, $150K just gets you into decent euro performance vehicles. Unfortunately they are pretty much all sedans (C63, M3, RS4 etc). If you thing is Sports cars, then try and find anything that can match the GTR for that above price. You cant.

Buying any of the above new and under warranty should be a safe bet, so the decision then is, do you want "the best/rarest" that HSV currently have to offer? Will you be happy after 12 months when they release some other LS? powered Coupe/Sedan that looks better, makes more power and costs the same?

If you are a die hard Holden fan the choice is easy. If you are a die hard performance enthusiast then the choice is even easier (GTR).

...Used 2008 GTRs coming in to Aus as grey imports may not affect the dealer sold vehicles too much, as they will be in very limited numbers and will probably be different to the Aus spec ones (just like the US ones will be different ie - no speed limiter etc)...



Could $150K buy a brand new imported ZR1 2009 Corvette - with the LS9 engine?
I dont know why people keep bringing up the Vette. Importing (RHD conversion and taxes) make even a (USD$70K) Z06 a $150-200K proposition, let alone a ZR1 which may cost $250K+.

[CarlFST60L]

Where did you read that rubbish? The Porsche 997 GT2 Lapped faster than the GTR. Full Street trim. Not a boosted Dato running Nurburbring Spec.

Have you got a link to some info on this? What faster cars and what official times have they posted?

[NickS]

... Used 2008 GTRs coming in to Aus as grey imports may not affect the dealer sold vehicles too much, as they will be in very limited numbers and will probably be different to the Aus spec ones (just like the US ones will be different ie - no speed limiter etc) ...

Not to mention ... a few years down the track when there are plenty of genuine Nissan AUS models on the market, how easy do you think it will be to sell a grey import ...

I can't many people willing to take them over one that was actually sold in the country.

[seedyrom]

I bet there's more grey-import R32 skylines in Australia than Genuine Nissan AUS models

[HSVDKB]

There are a number of grey imported R35's coming into NZ now. They all seem to be "Black editions" and of the ones I've seen advertised range from $144,900 NZD to $164,000 NZD

[Curtis-R]

Interesting dilemma there John :)

The reason I struggle with the $120-$150k Holden is that it's an Exec Commodore with $80k of options and an HSV badge at the end of the day. The Nissan GTR is not a base model Nissan that is optioned up.. It has started life as a serious performance car with incredible
figures to back it up.. I would take the GTR hands down if it was pure performance vs $$ you were after. There would be very few cars on the road that would match the GTR on any track or qtr mile 'out of the box'. It is technically an awsome machine.

and IMO I love the GTS you have now.. It already runs into the 12's all day long and looks great. By going the W427 your basically getting pretty much the same car as you have now but with some more cubic inches?? As you said is that worth an extra $60k over what you have now? Or... wait for the Camaro :)

Good luck mate.. ;)

[Uwish]

Have you got a link to some info on this? What faster cars and what official times have they posted?

There is a list of top times listed somewhere.
GTR beat the GT3 RS. Porsche took their latest and greatest out 997 GT2 and took time away from the GTR.

Both are beasts, just the GTR is the Bargin!

[boyley]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

Radical SR8
Based on the SR3, the SR8 is a more extreme version intended for street and track use. The SR8 also features the largest engine Radical has ever put in their road cars, with the 2600 cc Powertec RPA V8 constructed by combining elements of Suzuki inline-4s, and producing 363 hp. A further variant, known as the SR8LM, increases the engine to 2800 cc and brings power output to 455 hp. The standard SR8 currently holds the lap record (6 minutes, 55 seconds) for road legal cars at the Nürburgring Nordschleife circuit.

Fastest 1/4 mile cars

http://www.fastestlaps.com/index.php?page_id=lists&cat=qmile&size=all

[CarlFST60L]

thanks, thats some great info. Seems like its a little out of date, didnt he GTR run 7:46?

[PBoB]

$150k is a lot for a commodore, and at the end of the day lets face it, it's still a commodore hey. :)

[macca33]

Not to mention ... a few years down the track when there are plenty of genuine Nissan AUS models on the market, how easy do you think it will be to sell a grey import ...

I can't many people willing to take them over one that was actually sold in the country.


There are a number of grey imported R35's coming into NZ now. They all seem to be "Black editions" and of the ones I've seen advertised range from $144,900 NZD to $164,000 NZD

Who are you trying to kid Nick??? Historically, it has been shown that the grey imports will be snapped up by people because they will be CHEAPER and most likely have better specs. Or, because there will only be limited numbers released for purchase through Nissan dealerships in Australia and if the supply cannot meet the demand - the greys will fill the void. The way that Japanese-spec cars always seem to be a little bit better than the ones they spec for Australia could also be an advantage of the grey import.

As HSVDKB states - the greys have already hit NZ. Their laws are more relaxed than ours, but they WILL be coming here too.

How many R32, 33 & 34s are all running around that were very expensive costing rigs back in the day and are worth significantly less now.

I'm not saying the W427 will fare any better, but I am saying that depreciation of the GTR will be substantial - given the grey import factor.

Both are very good cars. As I stated earlier, the choice is either a SPORTS car, or a SPORTY car, there is no comparison realistically, apart from perceived price-point.

Cheers,

Macca

[iloveholden]

This is a big question atm. I like both cars but like most people are saying the HSV is a bit over priced IMO. Although atm the GTR is the most hyped up car, its in every car mag and in every single new game coming out on whatever platform.

Will it still be an icon and status symbol in a couple of years? Not sure, time will tell.

Someone suggested suping up your current car or purchasing a used Ferrari or other supercar, as the car will not be a daily driver,i personally think that with the car you currently have one of these maybe a better option.

In the end of the day mate its up to you not us, GO with your heart not your brain. Just because 1 car maybe faster...doesnt mean you may have the most fun in it due to other factors such as the country you live in (hint hint :lol:).

[Millsy]

Why not. No-one set any criteria, its a personal choice.

And are you implying you will be purchasing one in the near future to replace the VY?

thats the whole point, there is no criteria because there not your average joe's family vehicle are they, if your spending $150,000 on a sports car (gtr), obviously you already have the family bus ie a 4wd for the kids and no i wont be buying one any time soon, i wish...

cheers

Millsy


Where did you read that rubbish? The Porsche 997 GT2 Lapped faster than the GTR. Full Street trim. Not a boosted Dato running Nurburbring Spec.

While I'd pick the GTR, It is hardly the fastest car around the ring.

nissan's trade presentation from the melbourne motor show some weeks ago, i cant remember the exact time, but it was 2 secs slower than the gt carrera, i never said the gtr was the fastest car to lap the ring, so get your facts straight first, but for memory the time was around the 7min 38sec mark???

cheers

millsy

[offshore]

7min 38 at the ring is bloody fast thats for sure. 997 GT2 7min 32 and Carrera GT is 7min 28.

Why do people keep saying the W427 is going to 150k. There is no way in hell HSV will charge that much for a commodore. Its more then likely going to come in under 125k not over.

[emg]

HSV churn out a sporty commodore every single year while nissan have done their homework over the years and finally release something to be proud of.

Bit of a no brainer but it comes down to your driving habits and requirements.

[SchrgdVSV6]

Not to mention ... a few years down the track when there are plenty of genuine Nissan AUS models on the market, how easy do you think it will be to sell a grey import ...

I can't many people willing to take them over one that was actually sold in the country.
True. The grey imports would be only the "older" 2008 models, with the shitty 112mph limiter (FFS), no warranty or log books and half the text on the dash/LCD display would be in Japanese. They most likely would have some mods done to them further diminishing their value.


I bet there's more grey-import R32 skylines in Australia than Genuine Nissan AUS models
Nissan isnt selling much cars thats for sure. For example, the R32 sold new here for what 2-3 years?, in limited numbers, at a steep $90-$100K. Soon afterwards there were dozens of grey importers flooding the Aus market with cheap used R32s (GTRs, GTSs, GTS4s) for a price anyone could afford. This importing is still going on even after 16yrs!

[spank]

mate just give this thing a cut and polish, boost it to the max and stick some big wheels on it, save 149k, dont worry it will get looks :)
http://i223.photobucket.com/albums/dd2/spankGTO/120y.jpg
seriosly tho any one who thinks the W427 is just a GTS with a new engine hasnt read up on whats being done to the car, besides the engine, gearbox diff brakes etc etc etc, just as anyone who thinks ths GTR is a riced up datto, how about mod the GTS you already have and buy a grey import if they come in cheap enough, best of both worlds. for what its worth ive heard around 115k for the W427

[CS1234]

maybe the w427 should be a option pack like the R8 is.
But then again you could proberly buy the drive line much cheaper from the states and do it that way

For shear grunt you would pick the w427, but as a overall package I would have to say the GTR.

Either way, you will be happy with either of them

[NickS]

Who are you trying to kid Nick???

I'm not "trying to kid" anyone ... I was just raising a hypothetical, thinking out loud more than anything.

I don't understand the laws well enough to argue the point but many people seem to believe it will be extremely difficult, if not impossible, to grey import the R35. Honestly, I haven't got a clue ... just raising it as a maybe.

:confused:

[SLYSV8]

Having grown up around v8 holdens and owning them myself, i would pick the GTR for something different. Nothing real special about a 7Ltr holden at the end of the day. Might be a bias though as i am a Nissan tech and have a chance to go to Japan for GTR training.

[EfiJy]

how diff would a 7l holden feel to a gts with cam. prolly not much diff. u should go the gtr. diff leag

[VESSV316]

$150k is a lot for a commodore, and at the end of the day lets face it, it's still a commodore hey. :)

It doesnt have any badges with Commodore written on it, whats ya point

[mustanger]

how diff would a 7l holden feel to a gts with cam. prolly not much diff. u should go the gtr. diff leag

They roughly are putting out the same horsepower. My GTS has cam and usual mods and is very similar ,performace wise, to a standard LS7 .

[seldo]

Sorry - but I think this is a bullsh thread because it's like asking someone whether your wife or mine is better......It's all in the eye of the beholder...
One man's meat will be another's poison...

[big "d"]

It all depends if you want a perfomance car that you can also use as a full size family car, or a small coupe?

All I can say is be patient my friend as all has not been revealed as yet from the stables of HSV.

Just think about the words HSV said at the show like:

"The finished product may differ from what we have shown here"

Also, FPV do not announce their range until May and I am sure that HSV will then come out and trounce them again..... Just be patient

There is already a heap of orders with HSV for this car so it must not be that bad....

[vyssbeast]

IMO it depends on your use for the car ...

are you going to do much track work??

If not then cruising around i know which i'd rather have, 7lts rumbling away through a twin 3" exhaust or the GTR??

But then i must throw the arguement in, why not pour 20K into your GTS and build your own 427 stroker (which would trump the stock LS7 in the W427) and spend a tad more on suspension if you'd like the option to take it to a track day (not that the standard susp wouldnt be upto it) ... and IMO a better car than the W427 (although it looks stunning in person!)

GTR IMO is worth it if you plan to do track days and USE It ...

[JustCruising]

HSV DNA

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii217/terrypng/1979vb.jpg


GTR DNA

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii217/terrypng/datsunskyline.jpg

I'd take the GTR...it's full of technology that will filter down into the cars of the future.

[bogan_boy]

I have always regarded Japanese cars as 'ricers' and never ever imagined myself owning one let alone forking out $150 grand on one. Anyway, after hearing from friends and colleagues at work on how awesome the Nissan GTR is, i got so sick of hearing what i did not want to hear so i decided to do my own research into the car to see what all the fuss is about, and i must admit that the Nissan GTR is AWESOME.
Now i can be quite a 1 eyed person, but credit needs to be given where credit is due and the GTR deserves all the credit it can get.
If you do a quick search on Youtube, you will find a few latest videos where they put the GTR up against 911 turbos, GT3's, and M3's and it came out the winner. In on e test it did 0-100 in 3.3 sec and 0-400 in 11.6sec. An Aussie has a clip of his new R35 at the drag strip on Youtube doing a 11.67sec quarter with the car hitting the 180km/h speed limiter 50meters before the finish line!
Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear reckons its the best handling car he's ever driven and it makes the Porsche 911 Turbo seem prehistoric. Other motor journalists reckon that for that kind of performance - the GTR should cost 4 times its price.
But most notable of all is the quote from Nissan chief engineer, "Don't ask why our car is so cheap, rather ask why other manufacturer's cars are so expensive".
If i have the money, i will get this GTR in a heart beat. Nissan is smart, they will initially sell the GTR at a bargain price so that they can establish a name for themselves outside of Japan, and create a loyal customer following. Once that is achieved with the first generation GTR's - Nissan will sell their subsequent second generation GTR's eg. V-spec at a much more premium price.

The GTR costs as much as a BMW M3 and makes the BMW M3 look like a joke. And the M3 aint a bad car at all in any stretch of the imagination.
I am converted. This car is the bargain of the century. Carlos Ghosn - your the man!:bow:

[chevypower]

It's threads like this, which prove that this forum is not full of bogans. I expected everyone on here to fall over the W427. After thinking I would go the Camaro, if you really have $150,000, I don't think you could not go wrong with the GTR, i think it looks sexy, it obviously goes blisteringly hard, and has a heck of a lot of torque, in fact I don't even have to drive it to wonder if i like it. I bet it's more fun to drive than the W427, more reliable and turns more heads. With the W427, you will have to tell everyone that it's different, it has a 7L etc... Then all you will get back is "cool...why do you need a 7L engine?"
With the GTR, no utterance is required or expected.

[Millsy]

I have always regarded Japanese cars as 'ricers' and never ever imagined myself owning one let alone forking out $150 grand on one. Anyway, after hearing from friends and colleagues at work on how awesome the Nissan GTR is, i got so sick of hearing what i did not want to hear so i decided to do my own research into the car to see what all the fuss is about, and i must admit that the Nissan GTR is AWESOME.
Now i can be quite a 1 eyed person, but credit needs to be given where credit is due and the GTR deserves all the credit it can get.
If you do a quick search on Youtube, you will find a few latest videos where they put the GTR up against 911 turbos, GT3's, and M3's and it came out the winner. In on e test it did 0-100 in 3.3 sec and 0-400 in 11.6sec. An Aussie has a clip of his new R35 at the drag strip on Youtube doing a 11.67sec quarter with the car hitting the 180km/h speed limiter 50meters before the finish line!
Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear reckons its the best handling car he's ever driven and it makes the Porsche 911 Turbo seem prehistoric. Other motor journalists reckon that for that kind of performance - the GTR should cost 4 times its price.
But most notable of all is the quote from Nissan chief engineer, "Don't ask why our car is so cheap, rather ask why other manufacturer's cars are so expensive".
If i have the money, i will get this GTR in a heart beat. Nissan is smart, they will initially sell the GTR at a bargain price so that they can establish a name for themselves outside of Japan, and create a loyal customer following. Once that is achieved with the first generation GTR's - Nissan will sell their subsequent second generation GTR's eg. V-spec at a much more premium price.

The GTR costs as much as a BMW M3 and makes the BMW M3 look like a joke. And the M3 aint a bad car at all in any stretch of the imagination.
I am converted. This car is the bargain of the century. Carlos Ghosn - your the man!:bow:

Couldn't have said it better myself mate, i to have seen the various videos on youtube that you are refering to, and yes the gtr is awesome,

godzilla is back, game over

cheers

Millsy

[Swordie]

Below is a quick comparison of a W427 and modified GTS with a 427. Over 3 years the W427 is not hugely expensive as first thought. As most people know the cost of car is not only its purchase price.

Assumptions include most of the modifications on the GTS are not recouped and 40% depreciation for the 3 year period on both cars on orginal Purchase Price. Once people start undertaking more tax effective methods to account for the cost of respective cars the difference will shrink even more.


W427

Purchase Price $140,000
3 year cost (Depreciation) $56,000

Price after 3 Years $84,000



GTS with 427
Purchase Price $78,000
Engine and Labour $25,000
Sell Enigine -$4000

Total Purchase Price $99,000

Depreciation $31,200
Engine, Labour $15,000

3 Year Cost $46,200

Price after 3 Years $52,800

[NickS]

Some more evidence that grey import R35's may not be possible ...

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mellor.nsf/story2/3526BEB95CAC6AE4CA25740200813CD0

I still don't know either way but it would make sense for Nissan AUS to do whatever they can to ensure that only their cars can be registered in AUS.

[BigFella]

It's threads like this, which prove that this forum is not full of bogans. I expected everyone on here to fall over the W427. After thinking I would go the Camaro, if you really have $150,000, I don't think you could not go wrong with the GTR, i think it looks sexy, it obviously goes blisteringly hard, and has a heck of a lot of torque, in fact I don't even have to drive it to wonder if i like it. I bet it's more fun to drive than the W427, more reliable and turns more heads. With the W427, you will have to tell everyone that it's different, it has a 7L etc... Then all you will get back is "cool...why do you need a 7L engine?"
With the GTR, no utterance is required or expected.

this is why i love this forum, its not full of immature one eyed commodore bogans! There is some great discussions here all the time!
Thats why im still here and i dont even have my ls1 anymore.:)


yeah nick, i read that this morn that they are trying to stop grey GTRs from being able to be road registered!

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

I would by the W427 and drive it for 6 months and then get rid of it as you well be over it by then and go and by the Nissan and drive that till your over that and then see what else takes your Fancy YOU ARE GETING CLOSER TO THE GRAVE EVERY DAY so enjoy it while your hear :)

[Knight Phlier]

I dont know why people keep bringing up the Vette. Importing (RHD conversion and taxes) make even a (USD$70K) Z06 a $150-200K proposition, let alone a ZR1 which may cost $250K+.

Sorry i did not realise that even a Z06 would cost that much to import!

[Holden Man]

I think this is old news (and maybe more myth than truth) but >

Originally Posted by Autoblog
"Nissan GT-R can't take aftermarket wheels, unapproved race tracks are out
MotorTrend's Scott Kanemura sat down with Michizio Niikura, the president of MINE'S Motor Sports, the first aftermarket firm to get its hands on the new Nissan GT-R. The conversation centered on the roadblocks Nissan has put in place to stimy high speeds and limit modifications to the GT-R.

We've previously reported on how the GPS system fitted to the GT-R would remove the 111 mph (180 kph) speed limiter when the car arrives at a track, but according to Niikura, it will only work on pre-approved racetracks. However, the GPS sensor doesn't automatically remove the limiter by itself, it has to be manually changed by navigating through a series of menus on the GT-R's touch screen. While having to go to a Nissan-approved track is daft in its own right, it's even worse when you leave. After the track day, owners are required to head on over to a Nissan High Performance Center where a $1000 safety check is performed. Don't do it and the factory warranty is void.

Another rumor that began circulating after the Tokyo Auto Salon has also been confirmed: aftermarket wheels are out. Supposedly, all the GT-Rs on display at TAS had to be driven in on the stock rollers, jacked up and then fitted with the tuner's chosen wheels. Due to a sensor mounted on the valve stem, if the GT-R is driven with aftermarket rims, an error code is thrown on the dash. And although MINE'S has fitted a custom exhaust to their shop car, they've found that any modification to the intake system causes the ECU to go haywire.

While all these findings are draconian GT-R owners here in the U.S. won't have to worry about the speed limiter/track day issue. Nissan has said that the GPS system won't be implemented here in the States, but the future of tuning the GT-R remains questionable. "

Cut back to the early nineties >

VN Grp A - pretty good performance at the time / Now it is still lusted after today and fetching good money

GTR Skyline - Blitzed everything and was pretty cheap / Now there are imports everwhere and fetching only fair money.

W427 will be another Aussie legend / GTR will beat it performance wise and also continue it's Japanese legend.

[Carby]

I think all you lot pumping for the GTR are going off early! That is one sophisticated complicated piece of Japanese technology. Car Magazine tested the GTR, Turbo Porshe, Audi R8 and M3 and the GTR won through - but the surprise was the M3 which was the slowest around the track but the most easiest to live with (best engine also) and got the second podium spot.

I reckon the W427 is even more practical than the M3 and probably quicker in a straight line. And as far as the engine/ transmission is concerned, other than dry sumping the 427 is a straight forward engine - especially when compared to the TT GTR! For the poofteenth quicker performance the GTR will provide I think the W427 would be very easy to live with - the fact it's made by my fellow countryman also is a high selling point for me. :)

[Curtis-R]

I think all you lot pumping for the GTR are going off early! That is one sophisticated complicated piece of Japanese technology. Car Magazine tested the GTR, Turbo Porshe, Audi R8 and M3 and the GTR won through - but the surprise was the M3 which was the slowest around the track but the most easiest to live with (best engine also) and got the second podium spot.

I reckon the W427 is even more practical than the M3 and probably quicker in a straight line. And as far as the engine/ transmission is concerned, other than dry sumping the 427 is a straight forward engine - especially when compared to the TT GTR! For the poofteenth quicker performance the GTR will provide I think the W427 would be very easy to live with - the fact it's made by my fellow countryman also is a high selling point for me. :)

Why are you bringing the M3 into the equation here. Mustanger never mentioned he is considering one.. These things along with the RS4 are going to set you back $165k+.

I just think you have to take other factors into consideration instead of just straight line speed and lap times. Perhaps things like build quality, cost of servicing and maintaining, colour, gadgets, insurance etc etc.

Looks hot in Red.. and after all, good hype = demand which should equate to decent resale value.

http://seriouswheels.com/pics-2008/nopq/2008-Nissan-GT-R-A-Vibrant-Red-1280x960.jpg

[LargeRice]

If the W427 will be a collectors car, sure i'd snap one up. But that could mean holding onto it for 20yrs+. Invest $150k for 20yrs and i'm sure the return would be better with less risk.

A GTR will give road presence, supercar performance and make you a celebrity overnight. The W427 will be just another commodore with a big engine.

I have to ask why is the W427 $75k better than the GTS? It should have been RRP$90k IMO.

We can argue which car is better, but people don't always buy the 'best' cars. They buy what they like.

[ATOMIC MALOO R8]

But that could mean holding onto it for 20yrs+. Invest $150k for 20yrs and i'm sure the return would be better with less risk.


TRUE BUT

ITS NOT as exciting to look at your bank statement
:rofl:

[JohnS]

It will be interesting to see if the service and maintenance costs of the GTR are Nissan like or Ferrari like. With all the security codes, special parts and the rarity of the GTR one Nissan dealer per major city will be probably be certified for maintaining the GTR rather than all Nissan dealers. The costs of maintain a GTR won’t be cheap and having one dealer with a monopoly in each state won’t help.

It would also be interesting to see the cost and waiting time for parts, a new a new rim for example.

These things do affect resales value as well.

The new GTR is clearly a different proposition from the old GTR, which could be fitted with after market parts, modified and tuned by many different workshops.

Whilst the new GTR is an amazing car and embrassing for some exotics I feel it is a shame some of pros of the orginal GTR have been lost.

Has the price of the W427 been published?
Is 150K speculation or reality?

[Danv8]

Pfft all I know for a fact that the mrs wouldn't let me have either.

[Twin Turbo HSV]

will there be grey imports from Japn of the GTR

[Martin_D]

We are going to Japan later this year (around October/November) to spend some time with a couple of the GTR tuners we know over there to 'bone up' on the R35 for its official Aussie release, and hopefully have a lot of the coding issues and Nissan protections 'worked through'. We have to keep our competitive GTR edge somehow :cool:

[spank]

It's threads like this, which prove that this forum is not full of bogans. I expected everyone on here to fall over the W427. After thinking I would go the Camaro, if you really have $150,000, I don't think you could not go wrong with the GTR, i think it looks sexy, it obviously goes blisteringly hard, and has a heck of a lot of torque, in fact I don't even have to drive it to wonder if i like it. I bet it's more fun to drive than the W427, more reliable and turns more heads. With the W427, you will have to tell everyone that it's different, it has a 7L etc... Then all you will get back is "cool...why do you need a 7L engine?"
With the GTR, no utterance is required or expected.

ill take your bet, i dont think that the GTR will be more reliable than the W427,
when both cars have done 100,000klm ill bet the W427 has had less money spent on repairs and maintenence, as good as a car that the GTR is i think it will be expensive to maintain, and if its driven as hard as everyone here seems to think it should be, even more so :burnout:

[JohnS]

There are three new GTRs in singapore already. Singapore grey importers have no problems sourcing GTRs

http://www.sgcarmart.com/new_cars/newcars_overview.php?CarCode=10518

Spoke to a local guy with a black GTR and he paid SGD270K which is AUD210K. Singapore has heaps of taxes when buying cars, for example a BMW 335 two door convertible is also SGD270K. In Australia the BMW is AUD130K.

Singapore does not have ADRs so parrell importers can bring in any car which complies with Japanese, Euro or US standards and sell at what ever makes them a profit. In Australia we have ADRs and generally only manufactures can afford to certify ADR compliance and thats why Porches and BMWs are twice the price in OZ vs the US.

Get rid or ADRs and allow parrell importers and we would all be driving better cars. Holden and Ford Aust may go bust tho

[bogan_boy]

The $150 grand holden is a great car and is aimed at those who are looking for a M5, RS4 etc but want something that is locally made. If I didn't have the GTS - i might consider the W4277. But since the thread starter already has his GTS, I don't see the point in having another 'hotted up' version.
My advice is get the GTR. Try something different. Life is all about variety. You can't have the same meal every day, I prefer blondes, but occasionally i don't mind trying a brunette.:nyuk:
Heck just the DSG gearbox in the GTR with launch control is worth trying out. It's the way of the future, and to find another supercar with that technology you have to be looking at the Gallardo which is somewhere north of 300 grand.

[duke5700]

Well... all i can say is either way i reckon you would be getting a great car. I would be happy with either, though my passion would lead me towards the holden.

[clubbie]

Guys just a few things I thought I would throw in to the debate.

Firstly as I understand the current import legislation is that if Nissan OZ decides it is selling a complied GTR through it's dealers then grey imports are not allowed other than being a personal import by having lived in Japan for 12mths minimum. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Secondly I have been told the W427 pricing is at $125k. Is the 25K difference the dealer margin or added profit? I am also told that you can't place an order for W427 anyway.

Clubbie

[MitchyVYSS]

buy a 427 and put it into a car. There's no substitute for cubes!

[TLX]

We are going to Japan later this year (around October/November) to spend some time with a couple of the GTR tuners we know over there to 'bone up' on the R35 for its official Aussie release, and hopefully have a lot of the coding issues and Nissan protections 'worked through'. We have to keep our competitive GTR edge somehow :cool:

Might be coming over to visit you after all ST:)

[Martin_D]

I betcha I get mine first Tully :lol:
(did I say that? :eek:)

[TLX]

I betcha I get mine first Tully :lol:
(did I say that? :eek:)

No W427 for you?

[Martin_D]

No W427 for you?

No not for me :)
Wouldnt make much sense as a development car really, a handful will be sold, not too many would want to modify them, zero world market :teach:
Would be a good weekend thrasher though Im sure. Word is the C63 just cleaned up the W427s doppelganger in a recent Motor test....easily :eek:

We have some wickedly fast R32, R33, and R34 GTRs under our belt, might as well move on to the R35 and share the love :cool:

[EfiJy]

No not for me :)
Wouldnt make much sense as a development car really, a handful will be sold, not too many would want to modify them, zero world market :teach:
Would be a good weekend thrasher though Im sure. Word is the C63 just cleaned up the W427s doppelganger in a recent Motor test....easily :eek:

We have some wickedly fast R32, R33, and R34 GTRs under our belt, might as well move on to the R35 and share the love :cool:

ye like i need 2 take my 11s gtr to u for a toon dude :confused:

[mustanger]

MMM, might have to hold off for a bit. It seems like HSV is thinking about a Supercharged V8.....http://carshowroom.autotrader.com.au/forge/data_entry?tp=Prod&category=news%20and%20reviews&temp_type=detail&tl=2&searchmake=HSV&searchmodel=&link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.autotrader.com.au%2Fmellor% 2Fmellor.nsf%2Fcarshowroomstory%3FReadForm%26ID%3D 2D90B8C8F2473F30CA2574030022244C&make=HSV&model=&story_title=HSV%20power%20play%20not%20over%20yet&type=news

[Uncle Tone]

Word is the C63 just cleaned up the W427s doppelganger in a recent Motor test....easily :eek:

If you're referring to the CSV 427 it trounced the C63 over the quarter and in gear....according to what I've just read.

13.5 to 12.7 by memory...in favour of the CSV

[lowriding]

not a bad look at the W427 concept here

http://media.drive.com.au/?rid=35911

sorry if already posted !

[JohnS]

other than being a personal import by having lived in Japan for 12mths minimum. Please correct me if I am wrong.
Clubbie

If you owned a GTR in Dubia (duty free), Singapore, etc that would work too. For the last car i imported they wanted me to prove i had been in singapore for 12 months with the car, i.e. all the time i was out of singapore was not counted. A good reason not to collect stamps in your passport:)

[seldo]

...... Word is the C63 just cleaned up the W427s doppelganger in a recent Motor test....easily :eek:....

:cool:
I must have read a different edition....But - depends on whether you are talking the total package or just against the clock...
.............Benz.......CSV LS7........M3
0-20.......0.9............0.8...........1.0
0-40.......1.9............1.7...........1.9
0-60.......2.9............2.5...........2.7
0-80.......4.0............3.6...........4.0
0-100......5.4...........4.7...........5.3
0-120......6.9...........6.2...........7.1
0-140......8.7...........7.9...........9.1
0-160......11.0..........9.8..........11.2
0-180......13.7.........12.3..........14.4
80-120.....2.9............2.6...........3.1
0-400m..13.4@178.8..12.8@183.8..13.5@174.7kph

Not too shabby...

Main criticism of the LS7 seemed to be the auto trans which could not make-up its mind...

[NickS]

I must have read a different edition....But - depends on whether you are talking the total package or just against the clock ...

Even total package ... 4.5 stars for the Merc / 4 stars for the CSV and the M3 ... hardly a thrashing.

They again raised that the C63 struggles for traction, essentially saying it's impossible to drive it hard without it just breaking loose all the time. I might just be a big girl ( ... probably) but if I was spending $150K on a car I'd want it to have some grip.

:confused:

[Martin_D]

They again raised that the C63 struggles for traction, essentially saying it's impossible to drive it hard without it just breaking loose all the time.

Perfect :bow:

[TLX]

MMM, might have to hold off for a bit. It seems like HSV is thinking about a Supercharged V8.....http://carshowroom.autotrader.com.au/forge/data_entry?tp=Prod&category=news%20and%20reviews&temp_type=detail&tl=2&searchmake=HSV&searchmodel=&link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww1.autotrader.com.au%2Fmellor% 2Fmellor.nsf%2Fcarshowroomstory%3FReadForm%26ID%3D 2D90B8C8F2473F30CA2574030022244C&make=HSV&model=&story_title=HSV%20power%20play%20not%20over%20yet&type=news

Yep.....hold off John and put this in the GTS mate. Harrop are developing these 7 litre engines now:)

[Steve-LS2]

this is a little off topic, (apologies)

i'm pretty sure (but correct me if i'm wrong), the new GT-R is NOT an R35

This is.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9e/Nissan_V35_Skyline_350GT.jpg/800px-Nissan_V35_Skyline_350GT.jpg

The R35 skyline has been out in Japan for years now, it is like a 2 door Maxima, also known as a V35 Infiniti (as sold in America)

This car

http://www.myride.com/images/non-vehicle/Misc/Customs/Nissan_gtr_(400x300).jpg

is simply known as the GT-R. It is not a Skyline nor does it resemble any likeness to a Skyline or to the R35 Skyline pictured above.

The name GT-R was first seen on the PGC10 2000 GT-R in the mid 60's and the second but lesser sold version the KPGC10 2000 GT-R.

KPGC10 2000 GT-R
http://w2282.nsk.ne.jp/~gennyomo/amenix3.jpg

There was no GT-R again until the regular R32 Skyline was re-engineered with All Wheel Drive, Brembo Brakes and a RB26DETT engine.

This was immensly popular in Japanbut failed to sell anywhere else and subsequent versions of the GT-R based on the R33 and R34 Skyline Coupe's were only for the JDM.

In summary the new GT-R is NOT a Skyline nor is it an R35.

Cheers

Steve

[NickS]

You're right that it's not a Skyline ... but it's definately an R35 GT-R.

[Martin_D]

There was no GT-R again until the regular R32 Skyline was re-engineered with All Wheel Drive, Brembo Brakes and a RB26DETT engine.

R32 GTR Skylines were released with Sumitomo brakes and only upgraded to Brembos in the very last R32 GTR "V Spec' series :)

[seldo]

They again raised that the C63 struggles for traction, essentially saying it's impossible to drive it hard without it just breaking loose all the time.

Perfect :bow:
:rofl: :rofl: :lmao: :lmao: Gold!!

[NickS]

Perfect :bow:

If you like losing ...

:stick:

[LDV60]

The image of the "Maxima" like Skyline looks to me to be a G35 Skyline.

The G35 range of Skylines have been available for quite some time.

The R35 is the second photo (the GTR) which is no longer sold as a "Skyline" as Nissan are trying to separate the GTR from the Skyline line of vehicles.

[MIC33R]

I think you're all getting a bit confused with the 35s :)

There's the R35 GTR - that's the new GTR that everyone is excited about.

Then there's the V35 Skyline - that's the one pictured up top, which is also known as the Infiniti G35 in the US. That one is called the G35 because of its 3.5L engine displacement. Its chassis number will most likely have V35 in it (I haven't checked though).

[v8e30]

Neither imo. You could build a kit car for that money which would be faster and ALOT more enjoyable than both of them put together. The commodore is still a commodore...heavy - and the skyline wouldnt be as enjoyable to drive, the car basically drives its self.

If you didnt build it, dont cruise it :)

[seank]

gtr will do 0-100kn/h in 3.5- 4.0 quarter in 11.00 stock, can you imagine when you start doing simple mod's how much of a beast this thing will be.
I rekon free up the airflow bigger injectors, pump up the boost ect and you will have a 10 sec car.
W427 is pretty much at capacity when modding, however if I bought one I would keep it totally stock.
Of course there are many other factors, however If i got a GTR I would be straight into modding it

[CarlFST60L]

gtr will do 0-100kn/h in 3.5- 4.0 quarter in 11.00 stock,

3.3 0-100 and 11.6 400m :) Theres another tread on the R35 which has full current reviews of the cars with all the stat's thats worth a look.

They also say there will be no mod's as they have design the car so it 'cannot be done'..... They say they did an exhaust in the US and it had to be pulled off. But we will see how long it takes for people to start working it out...

[Martin_D]

They say they did an exhaust in the US and it had to be pulled off. But we will see how long it takes for people to start working it out...

Already being backwards coded Carl.... :)
We have the fastest street car GTRs in the country, and arent going to stop now :cool:

[throttlehappy]

the front end of the w427 is enough for me

rush job? lol

[CarlFST60L]

Already being backwards coded Carl.... :)
We have the fastest street car GTRs in the country, and arent going to stop now :cool:

That was quick :smilesandbanana:

Cant wait to see what improvment there will be in the 400m just by removing the 180km/h limiter... We could do the math if someone had a 11.6 @ 180km/h timeslip

[LSX-438]

gtr will do 0-100kn/h in 3.5- 4.0 quarter in 11.00 stock, can you imagine when you start doing simple mod's how much of a beast this thing will be.
I rekon free up the airflow bigger injectors, pump up the boost ect and you will have a 10 sec car.
W427 is pretty much at capacity when modding, however if I bought one I would keep it totally stock.
Of course there are many other factors, however If i got a GTR I would be straight into modding it

W427 at capacity? If you mean no more power to be had, i seriously doubt it. If anything i would say the nissan will be more highly strung, but if Nissan think they can stop people modding their cars they are deluded. I am sure there will be a very eager aftermarket business buzzing along for that car.

[sandmanls1]

anyone seen the latest review in Wheels vs the 911 turbo?

They are calling it a Baby Veyron..

Interesting i'd sell a kidney for one hehehe

[Roonstain]

if you ask me i would either stroke you 6L out to the 427ci and have fun with the gts
or if you want a new car - go for a C63 AMG - test drove one - pure sex
either way you are getting a fairly unique ride
(the gt-r will end up like the skylines you see kids driving around in today with bloody 3 foot wide exhausts scraping on anything and everything)


or we should gather the troops and make sure the coupe 60 is built!
whos with me?

[NickS]

(the gt-r will end up like the skylines you see kids driving around in today with bloody 3 foot wide exhausts scraping on anything and everything)

Not for a long time ... they aren't exactly going to be cheap.

In any case, is it really any different to the thousands of old commodores out there with wheels tucked up under the guards, stupidly big wheels and crappy loud exhausts and bald tyres ?

:confused:

[DaveHAT]

if you ask me i would either stroke you 6L out to the 427ci and have fun with the gts
or if you want a new car - go for a C63 AMG - test drove one - pure sex
either way you are getting a fairly unique ride
(the gt-r will end up like the skylines you see kids driving around in today with bloody 3 foot wide exhausts scraping on anything and everything)


or we should gather the troops and make sure the coupe 60 is built!
whos with me?

You sure you're not getting confused with assloads of VL & VN Commodores with that sweeping comment about scraping 3ft exhausts?

Until Holden can build and release a car that will run 11s UNTOUCHED and without major spanner work ... the GTR wins hands down.

Even if they built the Coupe60 it still wouldn't be a shade on the GTR for quality and performance.

[Marco]

I've come to this debate late, but having read about both the GT-R and W427 in this month's Wheels, for my money it would be GT-R by a long way.

Seems to me that the GT-R actually moves the art of the performance car forwards, and not just by a small amount, largely due to its incredible transmission. The W427 on the other hand is more of the same from HSV, this time with a bigger engine.

I may be biased because I dislike the current HSV lineup on purely styling grounds, but I can't see the W427 coming close to a GT-R for driving satisfaction.

[CarlFST60L]

(the gt-r will end up like the skylines you see kids driving around in today with bloody 3 foot wide exhausts scraping on anything and everything)

This is the thing, these that drive old ones actually believe they are are driving something like a Vspec R34 :lol: There is no comparison between a ~$20K skyline and a +$90K skyline.... Let alone the R35 is not a Skyline, and there are no cheap models, and they will not be common as they are hand built. So we are talking about a $150K car that will never be cheap or common enough to attract the mass's of tight ass's, ever.

[neverL8V8]

DATSUN GTR R35 = hairdressers models car!

[holden6.0]

i;d buy 3 ssv's dats monday tuesday wednesday covered :rofl:

[NickS]

DATSUN GTR R35 = hairdressers models car!

You're driving an SS Taxi and hanging shit on a car that has lapped the Nurburgring faster than almost anything else ever made ... including a Bugatti Veyron.

:confused:

[sandmanls1]

NickS, did you hear the latest their might be a 4 door version coming., might be able to trade the GTS in...

[LJCHSV]

You're driving an SS Taxi and hanging shit on a car that has lapped the Nurburgring faster than almost anything else ever made ... including a Bugatti Veyron.

:confused:

Good on ya TOOL.


:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Ahhhh gee you fellas are good for a laugh.

NikcS..just a question for you if i may....are you going to be using your GTR for track use or just a weekender?

[NickS]

NickS..just a question for you if i may....are you going to be using your GTR for track use or just a weekender?

I'll definately take it on the track ... but it won't be regular, I just don't have the time. Besides that, not really sure yet.

[CarlFST60L]

You're driving an SS Taxi and hanging shit on a car that has lapped the Nurburgring faster than almost anything else ever made ... including a Bugatti Veyron.

:confused:



Owned :rofl:

Its funny how people associate an average Skyline that any teenager with $20K could afford to something worth >$130,000 that 99% of people cannot possibly afford without giving up their rent :stick:

[Pickles]

There's not really any comparison here, in my opinion, because they're two totally different cars. The W427 is simply a modified Commodore, whereas the Nissan is a brand new purpose built sports car/supercar with billions of Nissan $s & development behind it. The W427 could be used as an everyday/ business car whereas I couldn't see that being done in the Nissan. Anyway, as I've said they're TOTALLY different.
Having said that, & whilst I love big V8s, I'd certainly be going for the Nissan, which by all accounts is an absolute weapon in all respects, at less than half Porsche price.
The Nissan is set to redefine many many boundaries, & IMHO any one that owns one will have a magnificent car--not all of the owners/drivers will be capable of reaching those boundaries either----but they'll have a lot of fun trying!
Put me down for the Nissan--that is, if I can't have a Ferrari 599GTB.
Cheers, Pickles.

[HSVDKB]

Getting back on track......
As Pickles says two totally different cars and aimed at different markets. As a car enthusiast I appreciate both and at my age would probably tend towards the W427 but would love to have both in the garage.

[Red CV8 R]

To me the real question is why is the GTR so cheap :) Although I believe Nissan have said the real question is why are its competitors so expensive!

As mentioned it is in another league to the W427. As a fast tuned Commodore (which is all a HSV is despite what some might think) it is a fantastic piece of machinery and surely the fastest production car ever made in Australia. I think that HSV do risk pricing it too high. $120-$125k is where it should sit IMO. Still I think it is an impressive, well engineered car and sure you can build one aftermarket but you can build an SS into a HSV too if you wanted to go down that path. The point is that any well healed punter can go down to their HSV dealer and buy an integrated, well developed and extremely fast 7 litre HSV. With full Holden warranty and factory support.

I dont think HSV ever considered competing against the GTR. Their target was the E55 and the M5 and if you think about it they make more sense as a competitor for this car. Well as far as performance goes anyway. I think its just that some bogans cant handle the thought that anything would be faster then their V8. Which is garbage. The Nissan is a fabulous performance achievement and who wouldn't want to own one? I sure as hell would. You would have to pretty one eyed to say otherwise. Doesn't stop me loving my car or the Holden/ HSV product.

So the GTR stands as a car built from the ground up for a purpose. To be one of the worlds best performance cars at an amazing price. It truly suggests you are paying for the badge with alot of others. Well maybe some money for style to ;) The W427 stands as the ultimate factory performance V8 sedan. Still a horn car (with a bit of an ugly nose) but still a fantastic performance car in its own right. It will go down as a classic I think. Who buys which car is truly up to the person handing over their folding stuff.

[Vulture]

To me the real question is why is the GTR so cheap :) Although I believe Nissan have said the real question is why are its competitors so expensive!

I'm interested to find out whether Nissan will be making any money on the GTR. Given the amount of money that must have been invested in making it such a great package, perhaps they are willing to let it go at break-even or maybe even a small loss to ensure its 'Halo model' status.

Let's also be fair to Porsche. Nissan constantly benchmarked the GTR against the 911 Turbo. It was purpose built to beat it, that is no secret. Certainly flattering for Porsche but a wakeup call that it is time to up the ante. I suspect that the future of the exotics will be light weight, which costs money, this is where the Euros will be able to take the fight to cheaper cars like the GTR and still be able to charge a premium. Ferrari has already hinted that they are going down this path.

I would consider a GTR but I don't think the wife would let me get away with it right now. The W427 is also fantastic and the fact that enthusiasts like us would consider one or the other means they ARE competitors despite being totally different.

$120-150K is still pretty price sensitive in my view. It is only in the $300k+ range where the seriously rich folk probably don't really need to care about cost. The trouble with the GTR is that everything else looks like poor value for money - even the W427!

[sandmanls1]

I think the clue is that part of the investment is for other derivatives, ie already syaing there might be a 4 door and as per previous models perhaps even a wagon.. or at least use the 4wd system or lower tuned versions of the engine etc, plus the V Spec will be coming in addition.

do yourself a favour and read the wheels test against the 911 turbo.

and I'm sure HSV won't have any trouble selling enough W427's...

[Holden Man]

I saw the CSV 427 did a 80-120 time of about 2.5secs (left in drive) which beat both the C63 and M3. Also beat them in every other timed run 0-100, 400m etc (Latest Motor - I think)

- So the W427 will hopefully be slightly better again -


More reading on the GTR -
http://blogs.edmunds.com/Straightline/category/cat.2009NissanGT-RRoadTrip?tid=edmunds.il.home.photopanel..1.*

[Red CV8 R]

I'm interested to find out whether Nissan will be making any money on the GTR. Given the amount of money that must have been invested in making it such a great package, perhaps they are willing to let it go at break-even or maybe even a small loss to ensure its 'Halo model' status.

Let's also be fair to Porsche. Nissan constantly benchmarked the GTR against the 911 Turbo. It was purpose built to beat it, that is no secret. Certainly flattering for Porsche but a wakeup call that it is time to up the ante. I suspect that the future of the exotics will be light weight, which costs money, this is where the Euros will be able to take the fight to cheaper cars like the GTR and still be able to charge a premium. Ferrari has already hinted that they are going down this path.

I would consider a GTR but I don't think the wife would let me get away with it right now. The W427 is also fantastic and the fact that enthusiasts like us would consider one or the other means they ARE competitors despite being totally different.

$120-150K is still pretty price sensitive in my view. It is only in the $300k+ range where the seriously rich folk probably don't really need to care about cost. The trouble with the GTR is that everything else looks like poor value for money - even the W427!


I dont think they will be making money on these cars for a while considering the price they are selling them at but I could be wrong. I think that sandmanLS1 is right that they may start to break even when more derivatives are sold. Its an image building car in the end I guess and the development cost/loss has been spread over a number of years now.

You are correct that Nissan made no secret that the Porsche Turbo was the benchmark and it looks like they exceeded that. Some reports showing the GTR to be a better performance car then the GT3 and many other exotica. However many "lesser" car makers benchmark top end cars and dont seem to comprehensively beat them like Nissan has. Top job I think.

Yep I also agree that up to $150k is not a big deal anymore. I see many cars everyday that cost alot more then that. However Mercedes has made it interesting with the pricing of their C63 AMG V8 beauty. It seems that there will be quite a few options for anyone wanting a strong performance car in this price range. Good times ahead :)

[nickgts]

its a tough one i went from a 304 kw atw r34 gtr to a 300kw atw gts ve and they are completely different the new gtr will be som much quicker and a better handling car but i wouldnt mind either one

[payaya]

The way I see it, the R35 has beaten everycar by a massive margin, so really not contest.

[Vulture]

The way I see it, the R35 has beaten everycar by a massive margin, so really not contest.

A massive margin?

[NickS]

A massive margin?

The last review I read (911T vs GT-R - Wheels ... I think) said that the GT-R would have won even if the cars were the same price.

That sounds like a pretty big win to me ... :yup:

[payaya]

The last review I read (911T vs GT-R - Wheels ... I think) said that the GT-R would have won even if the cars were the same price.

That sounds like a pretty big win to me ... :yup:

Exactly! The M3 would come close.

[VX11SS]

As good as the reviews have been on the GT-R, I dont think "MASSIVE" margin comes in to it even when taking into account the price. I have not read anything saying the GT-R is hugely better than a 911tt or the 911 rs etc the margin has been slim.
I would have either car at the moment but will be interessting to see how the the new GT-R stays together as a day to day car and also how will it handles mods. The old 26dett motor was renowned for its basic strength, the new v6 in GT-R form is a fairly unknown proposition.
It will be interesting to read what mags and other reviews are saying in a years thime when the honeymoon has worn off.

I would have consider buying one but a 911 tt would probably come first, not being snobby but when you lived with one for a while you realise how good they are (yes they do have their probs), they have that feeling of Germanic solidness, engineering and build quality that VERY few other cars ever have.
Just check out how many good looking, high mileage 20 -30 year old 911s are still lurking about considering the numbers made.

My impression is that GT-R is flavour of the month but for how long?

Cheers

[MacoSTi]

I think it depends on what the car is going to be used for... If it’s going to be a street car? Hands down the HSV you can actually spread your legs apart & relax in these cars, that car is true Australian BEAST even though, as usual it’s on the heavy side,

I mean have you seen how the GTR looks?? The things butt ugly like all jap cars... Even if you did select the GTR as a circuit car there are still other quicker cars you can purchase for less money. Eg, Subaru STi Spec C Australian version (light weight, 300kw + motor depending on what setting u put it on, ceramic brakes, full roll cage etc etc for $100,000)

PS: The ricers (non V8 drivers) wish they have what we have... nothing beats Aus/USA cars (exept Euro cars if u have $$$)

[CS1234]

I think it depends on what the car is going to be used for... If it’s going to be a street car? Hands down the HSV you can actually spread your legs apart & relax in these cars, that car is true Australian BEAST even though, as usual it’s on the heavy side,

I mean have you seen how the GTR looks?? The things butt ugly like all jap cars... Even if you did select the GTR as a circuit car there are still other quicker cars you can purchase for less money. Eg, Subaru STi Spec C Australian version (light weight, 300kw + motor depending on what setting u put it on, ceramic brakes, full roll cage etc etc for $100,000)

PS: The ricers (non V8 drivers) wish they have what we have... nothing beats Aus/USA cars (exept Euro cars if u have $$$)

fair point, but where not compairing a rex over these two.
You could get a evo or a rx 3 or 7 and spend 50k and would be quicker then the all.

Overall, I just hope that Nissan just make the GTR and nothing else like prev models as then you will see 18 yo thinking they have a gtr when it;s just a gts-t or M

[NickS]

I think it depends on what the car is going to be used for... If it’s going to be a street car? Hands down the HSV you can actually spread your legs apart & relax in these cars, that car is true Australian BEAST even though, as usual it’s on the heavy side

If that's what you want to do you can do it in a regular GTS for a hell of a lot less than $125K + or whatever the 427 ends up costing. Edit, OTR, exhaust and you wouldn't be far off the pace either ... certainly nothing that you would notice in 90% of public road driving.

If you want a track car ... the only place that you would probably notice the extra that a 427 has to offer ... there are much better choices than a big 4 door sedan.


I mean have you seen how the GTR looks?? The things butt ugly like all jap cars... Even if you did select the GTR as a circuit car there are still other quicker cars you can purchase for less money. Eg, Subaru STi Spec C Australian version (light weight, 300kw + motor depending on what setting u put it on, ceramic brakes, full roll cage etc etc for $100,000)

I reckon the GT-R looks sensational and most that have seen it in the metal agree ... shit loads better than any WRX ever produced that's for sure.

Even if the STi Spec C was quicker, which I am not convinced it would be, it would a horrible thing to drive and couldn't ever be used for anything but track work. The GT-R could be driven everyday easily.

[Uwish]

Well my brother has just gone to Hunter Holden today to place his order for the W427, and it will sit along side his 997 GT2 that is also on order.
THat is a lucky garage!
Not so sure its as good as his current one though
Lamborghini Mercielago and a E60 M5.

I can't wait to drive this W427 beast! Maybe I can talk him into TT it!

[cholo]

I can't afford either, but I'd buy the W427 over the GTR without a doubt.

Me too Drew. I just think its another turbo car.

I'd much prefer a rumbling roaring tarmaq ripping supercharged v8 (not that the 427 has one but if i had the money definitely worth supercharging if the drivetrain could handle it).

Dont know how many times I've watched that youtube clip on 5th gear about the supercharged vauxhall. The sound is just pure heaven..

[SLY 57L]

R35 is a quick car no matter which way you look at it... however imho THERE IS NO REPLACEMENT FOR CUBIC DISPLACEMENT. A rather ignorant opinion i know but eh? :p

[payaya]

Yeah there is! Turbos!

[SLY 57L]

427 + TT kit= R35 in rear vision mirror:rofl:

[pagey]

427 + TT kit= R35 in rear vision mirror:rofl:

more likely 427 + TT kit = wheel spin, smoke, broken drivetrain and unhappy driver watching 60 yr old grandma launch the R35 to sub 4 second 100kmh as good as any race car driver.

That is what happens when a car is ENGINEERED correctly to begin with.

[VX11SS]

427 + TT kit= R35 in rear vision mirror:rofl:

Yeah in what world lol, perfect dry conditions maybe lol other wise just a lot of tyre smoke and not a lot of forward motion, bring in a corner or two and a DROPlet of rain, oil or gravel and bye bye 427 tt or not.
I like the HSV but please people in the real world if your not carrying a family all day the GT-R is hands down the better car simply because it has TRACTION something a front engined, rwd, 2000kg car on 275 tyres is never going to excell at.

Time to get real people

edit: Pagey you beat me to it lol

[TLX]

more likely 427 + TT kit = wheel spin, smoke, broken drivetrain and unhappy driver watching 60 yr old grandma launch the R35 to sub 4 second 100kmh as good as any race car driver.

That is what happens when a car is ENGINEERED correctly to begin with.


Spot on PAGEY:bow:

[Vulture]

I reckon the GT-R looks sensational and most that have seen it in the metal agree ... shit loads better than any WRX ever produced that's for sure.

:yup: I reckon it looks great.

[WH Captain]

i love my holdens dont get me wrong, but the GTR would make the 427 look like a VR V6 on the track.. street is alway gonna differ, but the 427 will leave massive strips when u want it too and would be so nice to have, BUT id rather the GTR all round better car imo:)

[Uwish]

I wonder how expensive the GTR is going to be when you break something on it?
Carbon Fibre drive shaft + $$$$ broke engine is big bucks.
Break the W427 and it will be relatively cheap to fix in comparison!

[Martin_D]

You have a point there Uwish :teach:
No one knows yet just how expensive the GTR will be to maintain in the long run. It would certainly seem even at this early stage that there will be some significant and ongoing servicing costs as part of the GTR experience, and indeed the control that Nissan have on this process will no doubt they reap back the money 'lost' with a reasonable sale price over a couple of years :cool:

While we have purchased/ordered one of these cars as part of the development fleet, and have no doubt it will be all that and more, it is understandable to read what some of the posters here have written. Japanese cars as a whole have very little soul, are reasonably chintzy, and lack any kind of emotive involvement, I wouldnt expect this to change with GTR in a hurry. While being quick it may yet be a hard car to fall in love with :)

[macca33]

Interesting comments from a bloke (ST) who has the consistent opportunity to sample several different marques and from within those brands, cars that serve entirely different purposes. To be honest, I've never considered a GTR the type of car that I'd buy - purely because it doesn't suit my purpose. I know they have always gone like the clappers and been highly advanced technology-wise, but just not for me.

If I had the money, hmm, I still dunno if I'd buy one, but they are an impressive car - without doubt. As for it being practical, well, that is for the intended purchaser to decide for themselves, I 'spose.

Cheers,

Macca

[seedyrom]

indeed it would be interesting to see whether all these members that have pre-ordered an R35 have even owned/driven an R34 or previous incarnations.

If you buy something due to specifications ....... well ......... even on paper Communism works :rofl:

[TLX]

Never owned one "Seedy" but always have wanted an R34:). Maintenance & Servicing aside, I still think they will be a strong package & latest Wheels mag has given it the thumbs up against some pretty handy competition in the 911 Turbs. If you are going to fling it around the track every weekend, like most car's sh%t will happen & stuff break and could become an expensive exercise. For me, a nice weekender and odd fang around Winton and maybe let ST have a play with it:)

[seedyrom]

& latest Wheels mag has given it the thumbs up against some pretty handy competition in the 911 Turbs.
The motoring press of the day were indeed very impressed with the advances made in the P76, and it should have come as no surprise that it would take out the coveted 1973 "Wheels Car of the Year" award.
:1peek:



I'm not knocking the p76 .. .I mean R35 at all ... I hope it exceeds all your expectations

EDIT: I see my post as being a "hater" post.
Not at all ... just throwing a few things into the mix

[commodore mad]

mate that gtr wood be bombed and the w427 wood need a good tune and add ons , holden never put out a car with full fruit on it . i wood pick the lion before the datsun.

[ABCxyz]

Sorry if this has been said before, I just logged on after some time away and have read the first couple of pages and then this page.

I have a Subaru Tarmac Rally car and the enjoyment of driving that car never looses any appeal in or out of a race. The rules don't allow a lot of modifications so the cars are kind of representative of a mildly worked street version.

I also have or have had Aussie mussel cars and enjoy them as well; I enjoy working on the control to keep the wheels just of the point of spinning to get good drive out of corners.

But nothing compares to the feeling of burring your foot at or before the apex and feeling the G forces build and having to control the balance of a AWD on the limit or skating around in the wet. People complain about hi-tec stuff in these cars but the driver input is still great around the limit and it actually teaches you more about driver control because you still get the feed back from the car that you made a mistake, just with the hi-tec you learn more through the car and less by repair bills.

The Datsun’s are heavy, I think they are over 1700Kgs this will slow it up in Targa later this month.

If you want a quick road car buy the Dato or save your self 60k and buy an STi then spend 20 on it and it will beat the Dato through the twisty stuff. If you want a straight-line monster buy the Z06. If you want an investment car - I have no idea.

[chevypower]

Datsun huh? that just sounds so wrong....Dato?? What the....?? that just sounds retarded! I suppose we should also insist on calling the W427 a Kingswood?

[neverL8V8]

Datsun huh? that just sounds so wrong....Dato?? What the....?? that just sounds retarded! I suppose we should also insist on calling the W427 a Kingswood?

Same thing,:lmao:Id have a kingswood over a datto anyday.

[ABCxyz]

180B V's the 202 (low compression or high compression)

Battle of the titans

[iloveholden]

Same thing,:lmao:Id have a kingswood over a datto anyday.

...+1 :rofl:

[seank]

looks wise I would go the W427, gotta say best and meanest looking holden ever. R35 looks grow on ya, however first impressions were mixed.
performance and handling R35 all the WAY, either way I would love both parked in my garage.

[ABCxyz]

1 of the 2 427's Holden made just sold for $920,000.00

Not too shabby

[neverL8V8]

1 of the 2 427's Holden made just sold for $920,000.00

Not too shabby

So there you go some so called Quote "Cashed up bogan" would rather 1 x HSV W427 7Litre,over 8x P76 i mean Datto gtr's:stick:

[ImpulSSiVZ]

Gee, John, I wish I had your "problem"!! I have always thought that HSV cars are overpriced and I fail to see the improvement in this latest 7 litre version over your current GTS. If you have ever owned a 2 door car, you will realise that they can be a pain sometimes. You soon get sick of the cramped cabin. Don't give up on the Camaro ... it looks great and will be at a realistic price too. I lusted after a 350Z ... until I drove one!!, then it soon fizzled out. The latest Motor picks the Mercedes C63 over the CSV 7 Litre and M3. Drive one of those, it just may be the best all round vehicle for you.

I'm looking forward to that CSV 7 litre comparo.
An alternate idea is getting a VE SS, giving it to Corsa to wack in the 7 litre
upgrade.
I believe the upgrade is 30k, added to the cost of the VE SS,you could have
an absolute beast for under 80 grand.
Someone mentioned Audi RS4, love this car, but they have stopped making them.
Have you seen the blown version on youtube, what a screamer!
But out of the W427 and Nissan, I would go the latter.

Originally Posted by TLX
& latest Wheels mag has given it the thumbs up against some pretty handy competition in the 911 Turbs.


Wheels mag, good as it is, buy stories from overseas writers.
They have not tested the car themselves.
Some of the stuff they put in there is old news, current issue
about the Mazda track car is months old.


Already being backwards coded Carl.... :)
We have the fastest street car GTRs in the country, and arent going to stop now :cool:

Saw the pics of the GTR zorst in Wheels.
That would be the 1st thing I would change.
Very strange and restrictive setup Nissan have put under the car.

[Knight Phlier]

I just saw a Black GTR R35 in Sydney CBD! Whilst i certainly stretched my neck as i saw it drive past and went woooaaahh! For the few brief moments i saw it - the first thing that came to mind was the looks - not to my taste at all. But that is not what this car is built for. Still has my respect as a fast machine. Also i don't understand why ppl are comparing the W427 as a track car? I don't think HSV intend it to be a track car it is just a more powerful grand tourer? isn't it? If it was a track car it would be stripped out and caged like the HSV GTR concept a couple of years ago or the HRT427 - as far as i can see the W427 is a street car with plenty of bling (like the wheels) it is not intended as a track weapon. If your buying a track car go the Nissan. If your buying a car for day to day crusing and duties i would go the 427.

[GETUTED]

I went and had a look at a GTR in the flesh yesterday. I was shocked by the size of the thing and how good it looked. The pics I have seen to date haven't done the car justice. You get a lot of car for $150k :)

The W427 looked.....ok. Great brake package and engine but apart from that not all that different from the rest of the HSV fleet :eek:

[Holden Man]

If only the W427 was the same weight as the Z06
(and had drag radials fitted !)

1/4 mile = 10.85 (supposedly stock)

YouTube - Ranger C6Z06 10.85 Bone-Stock on Drag Radials (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=469NvIOiz7U)

[Funky_Munky]

I went and had a look at a GTR in the flesh yesterday. I was shocked by the size of the thing and how good it looked. The pics I have seen to date haven't done the car justice. You get a lot of car for $150k :)

The W427 looked.....ok. Great brake package and engine but apart from that not all that different from the rest of the HSV fleet :eek:

Hey mate. Can I ask where you saw these two cars in person. Id love to go and have a perve at both of these cars.

OT: Simply, the GTR is irrefutably a better race car. The W427 is a somewhat luxurious family car with loads of power at your disposal.

Certainly, the GTR will not be a suitable option for a family man who has $150K for one car and one car alone. So the W427 would be a reasonable alternative. However, if someone is after a dedicated track car or is a one person family, then the GTR would undoubtedly be the better option.

Just like pretty much everything else in life, it just depends on personal preference at the end of day.

Also, whats the deal with the, 'but yeah, a CAI, exhaust, tune, TT, etc and goodbye GTR'. The fact of the matter is, the GTR in stock form will outrun the W427 both in a quarter mile and on a circuit track.

[GETUTED]

Hey mate. Can I ask where you saw these two cars in person. Id love to go and have a perve at both of these cars.


Adelaide Motor show (all over now) :)

[Martin_D]

Made my mind up that our GTR will definitely be a red one GETUTED. Silver didnt really suit it at all :eek:

Consider that the GTR by all accounts will out accelerate the 997 GT2 in a straight line and cop a look at this vid...the ZO6 isnt in the hunt :eek:
YouTube - Porsche 997 GT2 v Corvette Z06 - autocar.co.uk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb4xJRMrAwA)

Another quick one (vid that is not Vette!)
Up against a 997 Turbo, and an auto at that :eek:

YouTube - Re: Corvette Z06 vs 911 Turbo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyQYoxEv-0Y)

[TLX]

Nice vids ST....didn't understand the guy talking in the second one though:confused:

[NickS]

...the ZO6 isnt in the hunt :eek:

Got that right ... and the "Dato" is faster again, and around corners too.

:bow:

Great vids Martin, thanks for posting.

[Martin_D]

No probs TLX heres a loose script for you....study it up if you want to go hardcore into the Jap scene :)
'Zeroyon' (literal translation Zero Four Hundred) is the Japanese quarter mile test. I have been to plenty of these suckers over the years at Central Circuit Kansai and a couple of others (Fukuoka den) and dont knock it those Jap blokes know how to race! :eek:
http://doughy.theddrzone.com/lineup.jpg
Heres a few cars lined up at the start of a street meet :eek:
And of course the RH9 girls.....with a little cameo from 'Denzo the Great' in the lower right hand corner! :eek:
http://doughy.theddrzone.com/rh9girls.jpg
For those that dont know RH9 (Record Holders 9 seconds) is a Japanese 'Workshop Club' where a workshop that owns a GTR that can run 9 seconds on gasoline with radials (Nittos in those days) and a manual transmission with RB26 derivative motor was a genuine 'Member'. If you then went on to run a radial GTR into the 8s under these rules you became a Japanese 'Drag Emporer'. We currently have such an Emporer accredited fella in Adelaide (only such beast in Aus I think?) :eek: :hide:

Cant wait to see some R35 RH9 cars.....we still have the plates :lol:

[Ricky]

I went and had a look at a GTR in the flesh yesterday. I was shocked by the size of the thing and how good it looked. The pics I have seen to date haven't done the car justice. You get a lot of car for $150k :)

The W427 looked.....ok. Great brake package and engine but apart from that not all that different from the rest of the HSV fleet :eek:

Have to agree mate, had a look when I went to the Motor Show and pics definatly dont do it any justice. It is actually a very large car in person and easily one of the best cars there over the weekend.

Have to say though that the W427 also looked alot better in person than the photos I have seen but was disappointed at the Coupe60 in person.

[clubbie]

Me 3...loved the brakes on the W427...but the front bumper looked substandard (may be pre-production anyways). Maybe it's just me but did not like the black out on the bumper grille either...looks to try hard.

The GTR on the other hand looked very nice in the flesh...but you would need some serious $$$ to replace those very sticky cut slicks they had on it to make them look like regular street tyres. Speaking to one of the people on the stand they also have a softer track day tyre:confused:.

As for performance...no idea...until I drive both of em:). Could be waiting for a bit though.

Clubbie

[ImpulSSiVZ]

http://www.porsche.com/australia/multimedia/porschewebcinema/

Couldn't link the film directly, but just hit the enter button at
the bottom of the page.
Then select the 911 GT2 video and watch it full screen.
Umm, I think they have thought of everything, but no mention
of cup holders :-)

[seedyrom]

http://www.porsche.com/australia/multimedia/porschewebcinema/

WOW!!!! :eek:

Crazy video. Thanks for sharing!!!! :bow:

That is some pretty stuff right there. Its amazing they'd share so much about the internals and how they work in a promo clip.

I wonder how long before that technology filters down (gets ripped off) to the manufacturing plants in china.

Love the variable turbo :)

[SchrgdVSV6]

but you would need some serious $$$ to replace those very sticky cut slicks they had on it to make them look like regular street tyres. Speaking to one of the people on the stand they also have a softer track day tyre:confused:.
Id hardly call the factory RE070 runflat tyres a "cut slick".

http://www.nagtroc.org/gallery/albums/userpics/21210/Capture.JPG

The optional track tyres they mentioned to you are probably the ones more resembling what you call a "cut slick" (ie some type of R compound tyre).

[Knight Phlier]

Are they also going to be close to a grand a corner to replace? :eyes:

[Uwish]

They will be more like $1200 per tyre or more!!!

[SchrgdVSV6]

Considering the RE070 (18") costs about $220 or so per tyre, Id expect maybe $300-400 per corner for a 20"? I dont know if the runflat version would add much more to the price, but Bridgestone/Nissan may do the dirty and overprice these tyres by making them scarcely available :(

[chrism697]

Considering the RE070 (18") costs about $220 or so per tyre, Id expect maybe $300-400 per corner for a 20"? I dont know if the runflat version would add much more to the price, but Bridgestone/Nissan may do the dirty and overprice these tyres by making them scarcely available :(
but im guessing these tyres will be made in relatively low numbers, and they still need to pay for multi million dollar tooling etc so I would expect them to cost a lot more than tyres that are made in much larger numbers