Would it matter to you if Holden were to change to Chevy?

[Dacious]

Here's a little poser - hopefully we can have a frank but cordial discussion and it won't end up being locked. I thought I wouldn't air this in the Chev part numbers thread as I respect the intent of that thread. And this is not a slam on anyone who wants Chev badges on their Holden.

If GM decided to 'retire' Holden as a brand, and replace it with Chevrolet, would you mind?

We've been having discussions over on GM Inside News on the arrival of cars like the Hummer, Camaro and CTS Cadillac here. The Septics think it's a great idea. Some people here think the 300 is a great addition to our motoring scene and by and large I think choice is good.

The CTS I am very ambivalent about. Priced at around $70-80K like has been indicated, I think it is too close to the upper spec Holdens at one end, and the HSVs at the other. Holden sell more cars in the $60-80K band than anyone else - 400 big cars, ~500? Calais and about 500 HSVs, and they are the easy, more obvious target, when a 5-series Bimmer or Merc only sell a hundred or so each a month and their buyers are not likely to flock to Cadillac unless I overestimate their taste and underestimate their revulsion of things GM (possible).

If Holden lost sales in the Calais-Caprice-Senator range, it might stunt the case for developing future models, like Ford was stumped with the Fairlane and LTD. GM has stated already that Chevrolet and Cadillac are to be international brands: if they take the slot of luxury Holdens here in Oz and replace Holden-sourced product in the M-E, or even rebadge the Daewoos to Chevvy here like happens in Europe it starts to bring into question Holden as a manufacturer. Could they replace the Commodore with the Impala? It is clear Cadillac wanted to launch a full line here, and was only stopped because some models aren't RHD, and others are nearing replacement and obsolescent, but it is likely sooner or later we'll see the SUVs, a bigger Statesman-sized STS and the coupe.

I can already see the Coupe60 has an uphill battle, as Camaros and CTS Coupes are both likely to come here, and a cheaper local VE Coupe would be the biggest impediment to their success.

Thoughts?

[Phizzle]

It would be just another way Australia is being further Americanized. In Perth at least I think there are more Chev badges on GenIII's than Holden. I'm personally still waving the Holden emblem on mine. Bringing all these large cars over here isn't a good idea IMHO. The trend locally has definitly shifted to smaller fuel efficient petrol and diesel engines. There will always be a market for SUV's and to an extent the Yank Tank, or Land Yacht as I like to call them, but as people with Commodores and Falcons are already aware, parking bays are getting smaller and running costs are going up. I guess it just depends on what sales volumes they will be trying to achieve. As for GMH becomming GMC, I don't think that will happen in the foreseeable future, but I also don't think it will be GMH forever.

[team illucid]

I dont like the chevy badge ... if they only had chevy, I would be looking for the good old Lion to replace it :)

[vxssgurl]

As a born and bred Chev girl, I'm actually pretty ambivalent about it.

If you break down the argument to parts contribution, sure there is a heavy Chev slant there currently based on the LS1's onwards, however, to use that argument also opens the door to Buick based on the use of their V6's... and also Pontiac, thanks to OUR contribution to the new generation goat.

Holden didn't re-invent the automotive wheel, and there is certainly no unique claim to fame in that area. The brothers started life as saddle-makers, if my memory serves me right. Hell, even Henry Ford didn't re-invent anything either - just introducted production-line assembly methods to the automotive industry.

Cadillac have been hunting to get into the Aussie market since the 60's, but we simply don't have the population growth - or the buying habits - to support their brand as anything other than a premium label.

The Americans' habits are even more disposable than ours, and I think any attempt by GM to "over-write" the Australian market with American methods would be quite foolish indeed. And I also doubt that Holden would support any phasing out of the roaring lion, any more than Ford Australia would phase out the blue oval.

But, eventually, corporations do what they want. If Holden was to sell their soul to the Americans, no consumer back-lash would stop it. Holden buyers will buy Chev/Pontiac/Buick/Cadillac because it's GM-backed, just like now.

[SCiFiRE]

I wouldnt be happy,
Id still be a Holden/Chev guy, it wouldn't change my opinion on the cars, but Id be very dissappointed to see the name go.

[RED R8]

Holden /Chev don't really mind if its a good RWD V8 and looks sweet I will buy it regardless of badge. Even if the car that I liked best was a FORD (sorry) I would buy it...the Black FPV GT's look great just have average motors but If it became Chev so be it its only a car.

[Dacious]

Here's where you come to the crux of the problem: hard as it may seem to believe, but apart from the Corvette, I think the Solstice sportster and the Cadillacs and soon the Camaro, GM make no RWD cars in the US. And their version of VE, Zeta, has apparently died in the arse. And future Goverment fuel standards mean the likes of the Camaro are going to be short-lived - maybe only five years or so.

Holdens sold in South Africa and the Middle East are 'dumbed down' - the Chev Lumina SS and Caprices in those countries still get the 4-speed auto and a mix of various interiors with recognisable Omega bits. If GM noticed that Cadillacs were not selling as they hoped in Oz, and Calais were, especially when the Holdens gain the DI motor and six-speed auto, they might very well do the same here. If the Daewoos moved to Chevy, then Gm could point to declining Holden sales as an excuse to move more production overseas. Remember, we will be at parity with the US dollar, probably within a few months.

If Commodore sales, especially of the better margin models drop off, then they will get less money spent on them. It is not much for Chev to make a future FWD Impala in RHD and ship them here as a 'Commodore' - their factory could easily knock out 50-60 thou extra. They are within a bee's dick in most dimensions, and the new Malibu 4/6 cylinder is even closer.

[O5BRKY]

It would be just another way Australia is being further Americanized.

My thoughts exactly :flipoff:

[RED R8]

Holden also have to cater for what the market wants if they brought out sub standard cars with sub standard specs it won't be viable....although I would say a large part of Holden sales are non enthusiasts and fleet etc who may not care...Who knows ??? If the car they provide isn't what we want we buy elsewhere.

[WH_IKID]

Chev has a good name, but I am the same as Phizzle, I am proud to have HOLDEN badges on my car. My car was not made by Chevrolet so there is no need to have Chev badges on my car. If it was made by Chevrolet, then so be it, it would have Chev badges on it.

[Caprice270]

In Perth at least I think there are more Chev badges on GenIII's than Holden.

That's Western Australians for you...always trying anything that will bring them closer to seceding from the Commonwealth.

[WH_IKID]

In Perth at least I think there are more Chev badges on GenIII's than Holden.

Ha ha. Think it's bad in WA, check out Adelaide. I could not believe the amount of cars, even VR/VS V6 running Chevy badges! :doh:

[Mikey]

Holden owes its original appearance to Chev (GM) and Holden owes it performance heritage to Chev as well after all, the first V8 Holden to win Bathurst was a factory inspired Chev powered Holden anyway. That is why people stick bow tie badges onto anything Chev powered from HK onwards, but at no time did this compromise Holden's name then so why should it compromise Holden's name now? If anything GM needs Holden (in the same way Holden has needed Chev) now more than ever.

And for the record, I am on my third Ls1/Ls2 in a row and I still have not entertained whacking a Chev badge onto any of them yet, although I do appreciate why some people do.

[Big_Valven]

You know what, if I bought a "Chevrolet" Commodore, I'd be changing the boot and bonnet badges, wheel centres, steering wheel centre, startup screens, interior motifs, etc etc wank on, to Holden ones. Then other people can yell at me for being disloyal and I can kick them in the head.

I in no way support Holden changing to Chevrolet. If for nothing else, the incredible pride I have for our national motor company dissolving into the grey American soul-less money-making exercise that is GM chevrolet.

I don't think Australians would ever be in a position to replace their big, comfy well made rear wheel drive sedans with some of the pus coming out of America, in specs, quality, looks, performance and the intangible qualities of our cars.

:flipoff: off chev!!! :flipoff:

[HSVQUE]

Id mind.. Look what "HOLDEN" have produced.. The VE! Not Chev.. HOLDEN!

HOLDON 4 Life :smilesandbanana:

[Maved-GTO]

most if not all people over here hate the thought of the holden badge on the Pontiac GTO! if that what the car was in the first place so be it. but to deny what the car really is that is just stupidity.. ;)

i bought my GTO becuase it was a Holden not a Pontiac... thank god!

just some thought from the other side of the world.

[zorak]

If you break down the argument to parts contribution, sure there is a heavy Chev slant there currently based on the LS1's onwards, however, to use that argument also opens the door to Buick based on the use of their V6's... and also Pontiac, thanks to OUR contribution to the new generation goat.

Holden didn't re-invent the automotive wheel, and there is certainly no unique claim to fame in that area. The brothers started life as saddle-makers, if my memory serves me right.

Holdens started as saddlemakers/coachbuilders and were an Australian owned company and fabricated a lot and got GM backing to make the first Holden vehicles.

I drive a VU SS ute, Australian built using parts from the rest of the world. I have a Holden badge on the front (its not a US released car) and a Chev bowtie on the tailgate (thats what you are hearing, or to be 'diplomatic' about the whole thing GM powertrain). Am I proud to drive an Australian Holden ute, bloody oath!!

People seem to forget that the VB-VZ commodores were based off an Opel which is GMs european arm, thank Mr Hannenberger for that. That was one of Holdens biggest steps into becoming the success it is today. Even the VLs being fitted with RB30s and then the VN with the Buick V6 was a huge step. Holden would not have made the VE as an Australian release only, it is not coincidence that the VE platform will be used Globally.

GM will never market the Australians with a Chevrolet badged car, there is no point. Chev/Pontiac is a known brand in the middle east, china, USA etc. sending a Holden badged car would be suicide for sales.

my 2c

[Marco]

I wouldn't be happy at all. I like having a Holden because it's a uniquely Aussie marque, a badge you can't get on anything else anywhere else in the world (other than NZ, obviously). I feel a certain sense of pride that a team of Aussies came up with a car as good as the VE and therefore I feel it should have an Aussie badge on it.

To throw away 60 years of Holden model history and an even longer company history in favour of a badge that more often than not has adorned some of the worst products of the American car industry would be insane. (Having said that, using the Chev badge to flog Daewoos in Europe is a travesty of a different sort).

Bring the Chev badge here on Chevs if you like, but keep it off Holdens.

[QIKMIK]

A little off topic but I can't see Holden/Cadillac selling a lot of CTSs here.

What you are buying is basically a Commodore with alloy underpinnings instead of steel and a different design of body. The powertrain is pretty much the same. The DI V6 will be here soon, as will the 6-speed auto on the V6. We've already got it on the 8. No V8 available in the RHD CTS vs. GTS/Senator for the same bucks. On top of all that, you get US build quality. Australia is getting up towards Euro standard (not quite there yet, not even on my 0km VE) but we sure do a better job of bolting the things together than our American friends.

How many buyers will pay a premium for a sheep in wolf's clothing?

Mick

[EfiJy]

nap bc i still go ford:bow:

[Knight Phlier]

GM would be shooting themselves in the foot as Holden is an Australian brand name. And what would the point and benefit be if they are going to risk hurting sales even just in the short term?

[hithere]

If only Holden stop making their logos SOOOO big!!! ...but seriously, I guess Holden hasn't been an Australian company for half a century. Like many Australian icon companies, they are all owned by Americans.

I too would be sad to see Holden name disappear into the history book but truth be told, we lost Holden long time ago!! :bawl:

[EGG]

I would be pretty pissed. Chevrolet don't have anything going for them currently other than the corvette. Replacing the Holden brand with a division that builds suv's/fwd shit-boxes? No thanks.

[chevypower]

GM should never have had so many different brands to begin with, and I think it is hurting them now financially. Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, (had Daewoo), GMC, Holden, Hummer, (had Oldsmobile), Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall. You don't see other brands rebadged all over the world to localize the product. You used to have a complete different lineup of cars covering the whole range from the small cars, right up to the biggies (in every brand). I wouldn't be surprised if GM just can't do that anymore, and it's kind of dumb having one brand for each car. Like Holden Commodore, globalizing the Holden brand just for the export of one car doesn't make sense. Holden don't make anything else. It's also dumb to rebrand the same car with so many different brands around the world. Opel Astra, Vauxhall Astra, Saturn Astra, Holden Astra. I think GM should cut back on a few of the brands, starting with Buick, GMC, Saturn and Vauxhall. I also doubt the Pontiac brand is necessary. Opel and Holden? That really depends on how Europeans and Australians can take losing the names, but I think everyone would get over it. I think Chevrolet, Cadillac, Hummer and Saab are must keeps, and globalize all the GM products, just like Mercedes and BMW do. I think Ford have a similar problem. The name is globalized (fortunately), but the products aren't. The Falcon, Territory and Fairlane should be sold globally, along with other Ford products, from around the world.

[VYBerlinaV8]

Regardless of brand names, the American cars I rode/drove in whilst in the US were, by and large, crap. Build quality was shite, and they didn't drive well. Exporting that type of thing won't work.

[chevypower]

Regardless of brand names, the American cars I rode/drove in whilst in the US were, by and large, crap. Build quality was shite, and they didn't drive well. Exporting that type of thing won't work.

I don't think anyone is trying to say that Chevy Cobolts should be exported world-wide. To be fair, I have had my fair share of crappy built Aussie cars too. I think the small cars (Corsa, Astra, Aura) should come from Europe, the Commodore and Caprice from Australia, and Tahoe, Silverado, Acadia/Traverse, Corvette and Camaro from the US. These should be global products under one global brand in my opinion.

[StuartE]

I've owned, over the years, a LandRover, Ford Fairmont (XD Ghia), Holden Rodeo, Holden Gemini, Yamaha XS400, Kawasaki GPZ750zx, Mazda RX4, Mazda RX7, Ford Falcon (AU) and now a Holden Statesman (WH) - none of them have really been about the 'badge', or the brand... it's about the car... If the next Commodore rolled out of the Holden factory with a Chevy badge, and was called an SSVXK6, would it *really* matter, if you liked the style, the motor was good, the performance was there, it suited your needs, wants, desires, and wallet??? To that end, does the exhaust HAVE to be on the left, and the fuel cap on the right? Would it make a V8 Commodore less desirable if those fixtures were *gasp* on the Ford 'side'???

[Spectrum]

I've owned Holdens since I returned a brand-new EA Fairmont after 3 weeks way back when. Since then, I've bought Holdens for me and my wife from the VN up to VE because Holdens are a lot of car for the money, and because it is made in "our" part of the world.

I hate seeing Chev-badged Holdens....if GM were to drop Aussie-manufactured Holdens, I'll spend my money on Jap cars before wasting it on American boxes.

[Marco]

GM should never have had so many different brands to begin with, and I think it is hurting them now financially. Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, (had Daewoo), GMC, Holden, Hummer, (had Oldsmobile), Opel, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Vauxhall. You don't see other brands rebadged all over the world to localize the product.

The problem isn't that GM has too many brands, it's that GM has too many separate products. The key example of this is that while Toyota sells pretty much the same Corolla everywhere, GM builds three completely different competitors in the Opel Astra, Daewoo Lacetti and Chevy Cobalt. Why? All that does is give GM three times the development costs of Toyota for what is probably a similar amount of sales. These three models should be combined into one range, developed by whoever is the expert in the GM world on that type of car (Opel in this case), and sold everywhere with only minor changes to suit local conditions.

I think this is what GM is moving towards anyway, but they should be doing more of it. It then wouldn't matter how many different brands GM sells the cars under, because they'd still be the same car worldwide.

As I understand it, this would even work in the US, seeing as even though GM has six brands over there, they all operate in different market segments. You'd have a Chevy version of the Opel Astra, but not a Buick or Pontiac version for instance.

[madd0g]

I dont think cars should have badges at all haha already baught the car why we still advertising for the company. I run the bow tie cos it looks better than the lion in my opinion and its to dam expence and pain in the ass getting rid of the holes haha

[Ausmartin1]

Drove a Brand new Mexican Made Chevy Cobolt over 2,000 Km in the Canadian Rockies !
Fuel economy was sensational for 2.2L 7.6L/100km with MANY stops for photos and restarts.

Dam well built car and this was the Mexican built version.

The ONLY defect I could find was the right rear door was misaligned a tad with the top rubbing.

:1peek:
I really don't know why we all get hung up on product names, these coporates marketeers just walk all over us over like Nothing !
& were supposed to suck it up ?

-Even Toyota does it like Vitz, Echo, Now Yaris everywhere except Japan, shove a different shell on it make it a Scion XA XB etc.
Chassis are / will be world wide to cut costs, parts will are being made in China etc.
Already now it's hard to figure what exactly is WHAT quality wise.

Still I think we should stick to the status quo at least it makes the Americans fill with envy - Holden Australian Rear wheel drive !
"What how dare they, Aussies should be converted to our crappy front wheel drive sleighs":rofl: