Does Holden have worst 6 cylinder??

[falcom]

I was comparing the 6 cylinder models between Holden(both versions),Ford,Toyota and Honda.

Out of the four engines Holden has the least power,worst fuel economy,The harshes engine and worst gearboxes.

As the 6 cylinder is the bulk of Commodore sales I think Holden desperately needs to spruce up this engine(& gearbox) ASAP.(Their slick marketing can only fool people for so long)

Holden still has the edge when it comes to V8 power but they are now lagging when it comes to the V6.

If a customer was not brand loyal and they wanted a V8 they would buy a Commodore and if they wanted a 6 they would buy a Toyota,Ford or Honda.

[Danv8]

Yeah the V6 is a complete pile of crap.:rollseyes:

No match for the Volvo PRV and Kia/Rover KV6 engine for the
"worst".

[Evman]

I've believed for a long time that Holden's have the best 8 and Fords have the best 6...

[Toddler78]

:lock:
WHO CARES :flipoff:

why even waste time post a trivial thread. this Forum exsists because we are HOLDEN enthiests piss off to FF where they may care

[holden6.0]

i second that a useless thread

[falcom]

:lock:
WHO CARES :flipoff:

why even waste time post a trivial thread. this Forum exsists because we are HOLDEN enthiests piss off to FF where they may care

If you are A Holden Enthusiast then you would want Holden to have the best as I do.

You can use this forum so if Holden reads it(I'm sure they do)they may just listen and then we would have better cars for all of us.

[Toddler78]

If you are A Holden Enthusiast then you would want Holden to have the best as I do.

You can use this forum so if Holden reads it(I'm sure they do)they may just listen and then we would have better cars for all of us.

hey maybe go over to the Fleet sales australia forum and get them to sign a petition then maybe holden would listen. :rofl:
ill let you in on a little secret they dont care why because they sell enough of them to make then a viable product. Most fleet drivers wouldnt give a stuff to how the car drives as it is not theirs anyway.

All you are really doing is trying to insight a sh1t slinging match.

[Big_Valven]

It's a bit of an iffy topic to be bringing up, but I'd agree that the 6 leaves a lot to be desired. Especially power and fuel economy need to be sorted a LOT compared to competing sixes. I wouldn't care if it sounded like it was being fuelled by spanners as long as it's a good engine.

The older ecotecs at least, while being a little harsh, and fairly low on power, are quite usable and go on forever with the right maintenance.

And the automatic transmissions, across the board, need work. They're far from the end of the world but in my opinion not world class hardware.

[INTNSSV]

XR6T GEN is that you ? :1peek:

[paul05]

XR6T GEN is that you ? :1peek:

:rofl: love that comment. falcom, i have driven all and currently own comm/aurion , my ecotech does what i want it to do , that is tow my boat and get me to work and the wifes aurion is smooth powerful and front wheel drive :spew: but our old ba falcon was never as good and reliable as the comm. I bought the commodore new in 2002 and have had no problems at all ,and get a 9.3 to 10.5 on the lt /km read out on the dash majority of the time.:) but i have to agree with most ,if you drive or own a v6 commodore it's not cause it's a performance car.

[BLACKVE]

The older ecotecs at least, while being a little harsh, and fairly low on power, are quite usable and go on forever with the right maintenance.

Have to agree with that the ecotecs wern't the best but they seemed to have more low down grunt were you need it compared with the alloytec crap(havn't been in a 190>195 version)

Direct injection is on it's way:)

[kpop]

v6 = everyday driver looking to get from a to b in a smooth economical manner

v8 = performance enthuasist

holden could spruce up the v6 easily, but it wouldnt fit in well with the everyday drive option

[paul05]

v6 = everyday driver looking to get from a to b in a smooth economical manner

v8 = performance enthuasist

holden could spruce up the v6 easily, but it wouldnt fit in well with the everyday drive option

:) well said

[Scommo]

My V6 goes like the clappers thank you very much. Why, it even beat a Fraud Fairmont last night at the lights :lmao:

[Sir-D]

:lock:
WHO CARES :flipoff:

why even waste time post a trivial thread. this Forum exsists because we are HOLDEN enthiests piss off to FF where they may care

With current petrol prices every bit of fuel economy helps. Its no wonder that Toyota overshot Ford and Holden in car sales and will keep on selling more in the future... you guys with V8s must be pretty loaded to fill up every week lol

I cant wait for my little 07 Corolla... no power or grunt but my wallet will love it.

The age of cars is well and trully over.

[HSVDKB]

I cant wait for my little 07 Corolla... no power or grunt but my wallet will love it.

The age of cars is well and trully over.

You are not going to get much of a hearing on a car enthusiasts forum with this sort of dribble

[kpop]

With current petrol prices every bit of fuel economy helps. Its no wonder that Toyota overshot Ford and Holden in car sales and will keep on selling more in the future... you guys with V8s must be pretty loaded to fill up every week lol

I cant wait for my little 07 Corolla... no power or grunt but my wallet will love it.

The age of cars is well and trully over.

from your posts that ive read on these forums, ive made the following conclusion:

you are a poor man who is envious of other people who are better off than you, both financially and in terms of vehicle owned, and you seem to know very little of how economical a v8 can be and just assume they use stupid amounts of fuel.

i made this conclusion because you always seem to say things like "you guys must be rich" etc etc

if you cant afford a holden, if you dont like holdens, why the fuk are you here ???

[wally01]

Who cares about the price of petrol we all need it ,and i own a V6 hell if i had the money i would be buying a V8 NOT A 4 A V8 i have a family and a big FCKING Wagon to ship eveyone around in .
Uses a much petrol as my right foot will allow it to use every day ..

[pmac]

ive got the 190 and its not lacking power but again it aint no v8, il admit compared to the ford v6 it missing a bit of torque but besides that its fairly smooth and the trans is quite good.

and no point comparing the falcon and commodore to a fwd jap cause ur gonna miss out on a lot fun and gonna look like a wanker

[JezzaB]

Who cares about the price of petrol we all need it ,and i own a V6 hell if i had the money i would be buying a V8 NOT A 4 A V8 i have a family and a big FCKING Wagon to ship eveyone around in .
Uses a much petrol as my right foot will allow it to use every day ..

Now this my kinda talk!!! Screw the hippies!!!

Ive pulled out the O2 sensors, im running a 160F thermostat, gutted the cats, and if i could run on coal i would!!

[pmac]

Who cares about the price of petrol we all need it ,and i own a V6 hell if i had the money i would be buying a V8 NOT A 4 A V8 i have a family and a big FCKING Wagon to ship eveyone around in .
Uses a much petrol as my right foot will allow it to use every day ..

u got a valid point

[CS1234]

You do realise that it's a 6 and it doesn't have the POWER of a 8.....
It's amazing what a extra 2 cylinders will do.
I'm guessing you havn't driven a kia or other jap 6's as I would prefer the VE anyday.

It's simple if you want the power buy a 8 and don't cry about the petrol, if your worried about your wallet, then buy a suzuki cappacino its a 3cyl......

[emg]

anyone driven an aurion yet? I hired one back in jan and wrapped the shit out of it. Man they go.... seemless gear changes also.

Great combo, well done toyota.

[Boom]

Fuel economy? Dont care. 6 cyl? Not interested.
Falcom. This is realistically a V8 Holden performance oriented forum. Most of the threads you have started have been useless in this regard. would love you to start a relevant and interesting thread sometime.

[Sir-D]

from your posts that ive read on these forums, ive made the following conclusion:

you are a poor man who is envious of other people who are better off than you, both financially and in terms of vehicle owned, and you seem to know very little of how economical a v8 can be and just assume they use stupid amounts of fuel.

i made this conclusion because you always seem to say things like "you guys must be rich" etc etc

if you cant afford a holden, if you dont like holdens, why the fuk are you here ???

Since when Calais owners were considered "well off" financially? ;)

I just sold my Skyline a few weeks ago, need to buy a property and a Corolla in a couple of months. Paying cash for the 07 Corolla... taking a loan (alone) for the house. But you are right, I still have lots to learn about money and finance... really want to be driving an exotic and owning a number of investment properties soon...
Ill give you a wave sometime on the street :) Might even shout you a beer.

Thanks for the encouragement to do even better! google

[michaels1v8]

I wouldnt say its the worst but its definately not the best.

The difference in economy between all of them is debateable. Isnt there something like <0.5lt/100km between the lot of them? I think I read somewhere about the economy of the new falcon compared to Aurion and Commodore and thinking how stupid it would be to choose one car over the other for such a little saving in fuel

I think it will be improved on over the next few years anyway. Direct injection (like in the Caddy version V6) should bring power levels up and increase economy.

[GTS_365]

from your posts that ive read on these forums, ive made the following conclusion:

you are a poor man who is envious of other people who are better off than you, both financially and in terms of vehicle owned, and you seem to know very little of how economical a v8 can be and just assume they use stupid amounts of fuel.

i made this conclusion because you always seem to say things like "you guys must be rich" etc etc

if you cant afford a holden, if you dont like holdens, why the fuk are you here ???

:lmao: That's funny, I think it's the way you said it

[slolux]

Now this my kinda talk!!! Screw the hippies!!!

Ive pulled out the O2 sensors, im running a 160F thermostat, gutted the cats, and if i could run on coal i would!!

Amen to that brother!!!

[Sir-D]

anyone driven an aurion yet? I hired one back in jan and wrapped the shit out of it. Man they go.... seemless gear changes also.

Great combo, well done toyota.

Yeah one of our managers at work drives one... awesome car, goes really well, but it did take me a few mins to work out that damn FOOT brake!!! :soap:


:lmao: That's funny, I think it's the way you said it
Small minds are easily amused :D

http://www.firekite.com/store/misc/pics/forum13/retard%20toilet%20fishing.jpg

[Swordie]

When it comes to sales Holden is the winner.

The XR6T would be the best 6 for performance. It is a master stroke of Australian engineering. A shame it will be replaced.

When it comes to LPG Holden from the factory has the best motor.

I haven’t driven an Aurion, I would assume it is little down on torque in the practical places. Kilowatts is not everything.

The Ecotec is a fantastic motor. Economical on the highway, has great torque and quite reliable. It all depends what you need.

The BMW 135i would be an entertaining drive.

[scoot1]

I thought the Alloytech engine was being exported and fitted to Saabs and is it also in the Rodeo? Doesn't really seem too bad if this is the case... each to their own.

[SS Enforcer]

Now this my kinda talk!!! Screw the hippies!!!

Ive pulled out the O2 sensors, im running a 160F thermostat, gutted the cats, and if i could run on coal i would!!

Ill put my hand up as well, I don't give a fu#& either.
I do however recycle newspapers if my misses reminds me before they end up in the wrong bin and sometimes turn off the cold water when I brush my teeth between rinsing.

I don't really care much about economy and how much it costs to put 98 in it each week. It uses what it uses .

BOT the holden 6 is pretty good IMHO I had a sv6 and couldn't fault it. I saw it 2 weeks ago at a servo and the new owner is wrapped in the car. She has had it for 18 months and it hasn't missed a beat and it gets really good fuel economy ... she said. Better than her sons. :)
Afterwards I remembered the maff I installed in it that improved fuel economy by about 5%

cheers

[WhiteLion]

Whilst the 6 in the Aurion is beautiful and smooth up to redline, the six speed auto does a good job on its own, but slip into sequential mode, and things are disappointing.
Down-shifting (not over-revving) takes an eternity. Driving one in this mode, you need to anticipate where you want the shift to be made, and change down a second before-hand.
Aurion would be a definite winner if it were in rear wheel drive configuration. I don't care what people say, fwd, especially in a large, moderately powerful car is a COMPROMISE!!

[Holden Man]

Aurions / V6 Camrys do go well and feel torquey and so does the Ford 6.

You will find versions of Holdens V6 in >

Saabs, Alfa's, Cadillac etc
(so it can't be too bad)

I think the gearbox and diff ratio's hamper the Holden 6.

I don't mind the courseness/grumpiness of it, after all it is an engine - smooth is for sewing machines.

Parked side by side, the SV6 kills the Ford and the Aurion in the looks dept. IMO and for alot of buyers that's mostly what it comes down too. Look how Mazda are doing now that they have a decent designer.

[Danv8]

I thought the Alloytech engine was being exported and fitted to Saabs and is it also in the Rodeo? Doesn't really seem too bad if this is the case... each to their own.

Yup my Rodeo has it and its done over 30,000 problem free k's.

[kpop]

i dont think toyota will change the aurion to RWD over FWD anytime soon, why? because their number one either way so they dont need to change a thing :)

but yes i admit, the TRD supercharged Aurion looks unreal, absaloutly stunning vehicle. fully optioned it can go upto $80k

im sure if it was RWD then it would steal even more buyers from ford and holden

[Big_Valven]

I've read reviews on the Toyota V6 which give much the same "problems" as the alloytech - loud / rough at high revs, lack of low end torque etc... no doubt its an ok engine but by all accounts I can find it's not the nicest lump of alloy in the engine room

[zorro]

last weekend at the Tin Tops they had celebrity heads up races in TRD Aurions. Consistently cracked high 13's by unskilled drivers on a prepped racetrack, not too bad in my eyes.

If I was in the market for a mid/large 6 cylinder new/used after driving my company hack for 2yrs I would have to say I would buy a Falcon. Easily gets 550klms to a tank, is well put together inside and could pick one up for good $$$s.

Performance 6 buyers and family car buyers are two different people. We drove the SVz ute in M6 and I was far from impressed, same with the VZ execs (good looking pov pack but guuuuuutless).

How does a tuned up Falcon (non-turbo) and tuned up Alloytec go head to head? Does anyone know?

[Dacious]

The quickest fastest n/a six in a straight line tested by both Wheels and Motor is a manual SV6, at 6.8 secs if I remember. Ford's own time for the FG XR6 is 7.1. Because SV6 has a six-speed box with a low first to overcome the high 2.9 diff they lumber these with. It will rev to 7,000rpm at the fuel shutoff, 1.000rpm more than the Ford six. So even though it will not match the Falc for low-end, it revs further between changes, and when you do change you land smack bang in the middle of the revrange. The auto SV6 is just missing a ratio to get back half a second, and pulling a very high diff, 2.9 used to be luxury V8 territory.

The Aurion is quick because typically Japanese, it has big pistons swingng off a short stroke and rods, so it spins quickly and revs hard, as a smaller capacity shortstroke design does. They gear it down (3.6 final drive) and fit a six-speed auto. Peak torque is within 1,500rpm of peak power and the powerband is more like a power-pinstripe. It is more economical because basically it is a smaller, lighter car. That's it.

Check the economy of a 3.8 VY Exec and 3.6 180Kw VZ Exec - same car, VZ is 50kg heavier and about 1l/100km or 2 mpg better on Holden's own figures. Even the 180Kw version produces more power and torque everywhere. it is simply pulling around a bigger, heavier car in VE so it seems not so impressive. Remember, the last 5.0 litre V8s had less torque and only 179Kw.

The Ford's advantage in roadcar terms is an extra 10-15% capacity and a longstroke design, which gives good initial pulling power, but in n/a form also means slower-revving and breathlessnes at the top-end. Bigger motor, same weight - quicker. The motor that's coming is a relative torque-free zone.

You haven't come close to seeing the best of the Alloytech which in engineering terms is very young. The Ecotec is about two emissions changes away from legal today. If it were around it would have emphysema from the steps taken to legalise it.

It's amazing to me that the Holden it is 'rough and harsh' whereas in the Alfa 159 with the same engine is 'musical and sporty'. I'm sure if Holden spent some time getting a nicer note perceptions would improve. The only one I've been in, it felt like an electric motor until high revs, when it got that V6 note that is not as pleasant as a 8. The Nissan motor is the same. Most people who buy a VE six probably find the engine adequate, and the car is nicer feeling and driving than the Aurion or the Falcon with a better steeing feel and seats and seating postion. Will the FG catch up? Not if the trucklike seating posi hasn't changed, nor the view out the front over that high dash.

P.S. The Commy is soon to get the 220Kw Di motor/sixspeed - so it'll be interesting to see what they say then..........

[sh|tbmxrider]

The quickest fastest n/a six in a straight line tested by both Wheels and Motor is a manual SV6, at 6.8 secs if I remember. Ford's own time for the FG XR6 is 7.1. Because SV6 has a six-speed box with a low first to overcome the high 2.9 diff they lumber these with. It will rev to 7,000rpm at the fuel shutoff, 1.000rpm more than the Ford six. So even though it will not match the Falc for low-end, it revs further between changes, and when you do change you land smack bang in the middle of the revrange. The auto SV6 is just missing a ratio to get back half a second, and pulling a very high diff, 2.9 used to be luxury V8 territory.

The Aurion is quick because typically Japanese, it has big pistons swingng off a short stroke and rods, so it spins quickly and revs hard, as a smaller capacity shortstroke design does. They gear it down (3.6 final drive) and fit a six-speed auto. Peak torque is within 1,500rpm of peak power and the powerband is more like a power-pinstripe. It is more economical because basically it is a smaller, lighter car. That's it.

Check the economy of a 3.8 VY Exec and 3.6 180Kw VZ Exec - same car, VZ is 50kg heavier and about 1l/100km or 2 mpg better on Holden's own figures. Even the 180Kw version produces more power and torque everywhere. it is simply pulling around a bigger, heavier car in VE so it seems not so impressive. Remember, the last 5.0 litre V8s had less torque and only 179Kw.

The Ford's advantage in roadcar terms is an extra 10-15% capacity and a longstroke design, which gives good initial pulling power, but in n/a form also means slower-revving and breathlessnes at the top-end. Bigger motor, same weight - quicker. The motor that's coming is a relative torque-free zone.

You haven't come close to seeing the best of the Alloytech which in engineering terms is very young. The Ecotec is about two emissions changes away from legal today. If it were around it would have emphysema from the steps taken to legalise it.

It's amazing to me that the Holden it is 'rough and harsh' whereas in the Alfa 159 with the same engine is 'musical and sporty'. I'm sure if Holden spent some time getting a nicer note perceptions would improve. The only one I've been in, it felt like an electric motor until high revs, when it got that V6 note that is not as pleasant as a 8. The Nissan motor is the same. Most people who buy a VE six probably find the engine adequate, and the car is nicer feeling and driving than the Aurion or the Falcon with a better steeing feel and seats and seating postion. Will the FG catch up? Not if the trucklike seating posi hasn't changed, nor the view out the front over that high dash.

P.S. The Commy is soon to get the 220Kw Di motor/sixspeed - so it'll be interesting to see what they say then..........



The Alfa 3.2 is based off the alloytech-series block, and in reality is more related to the Vectra block than the Commodore block..

BUT.....the block/bottom end is the only thing that AR get from GM.... heads, intakes, exhaust are all eyetye....and its there where the magic happens...



And even then, the current AR v6 is not a patch on the old fully italian engine(RIP)

[Bravotwozero]

Maybe we should go over to AFF and start a thread titled
"Do Ford have the worst V8?"

[Dacious]

The Alfa 3.2 is based off the alloytech-series block, and in reality is more related to the Vectra block than the Commodore block..

BUT.....the block/bottom end is the only thing that AR get from GM.... heads, intakes, exhaust are all eyetye....and its there where the magic happens...

And even then, the current AR v6 is not a patch on the old fully italian engine(RIP)

Even so - the motor is a 60 degree 3.2 litre V6 made in Fishermans Bend and you can't 'unmake' the similarity to the Commodore motor. So if Alfa can get rave reviews for it's 'superb-sounding engine' and win awards for it, with a little more work so can Holden. The old Ecotec was a solid boat anchor, a very miserly, longlived and grunty one, but gruff and grumbly nonetheless.

The old Alfas were a good engine to drive from what I remember, but hardly reliable, easy-starting, smooth or particularly fuel efficient. That counts as 'character' in Italian things - I say that as the owner of a Ducati bevel drive 750.

[Knight Phlier]

The alloytech has also been around now for 3 years since the VZ, i am sure the tojo 6 was developed more recently and would have had the Alloytech and I6 to benchmark and make sure that it 'beats' in economy and performance. It is funny that people say that Holden have the 'worst' V6 and that the "Aurion has changed the game" but i don't think so - Aurion may be a better attempt than the Avalon but it hasn't changed any game - the commodore is still the sales king in this area and money talks... That is what Toyota want a slice of and IMO have failed to achieve.

[Danv8]

The alloytech has also been around now for 3 years since the VZ, i am sure the tojo 6 was developed more recently and would have had the Alloytech and I6 to benchmark and make sure that it 'beats' in economy and performance. It is funny that people say that Holden have the 'worst' V6 and that the "Aurion has changed the game" but i don't think so - Aurion may be a better attempt than the Avalon but it hasn't changed any game - the commodore is still the sales king in this area and money talks... That is what Toyota want a slice of and IMO have failed to achieve.

When the mrs test drove an Aurion she was dissapointed in it compared to the 99 Camry V6 she had. She said it had nothing until it hit around 4000 rpm. Although her Camry was a manual so it would feel quicker off the line. I haven't driven an Aurion I have no desire to either even with the TRD version I want all that power going into the rear wheels thanks. The alloytec in my Rodeo has been driven hard a fair few times and still runs like a Swiss watch. Sure it isn't the best V6 in the world but its not the worst. It does what it suppose to do get my Rodeo going on and off road and it does it reliably albiet it likes to drink a bit. The I6 in the Terry is a lazy but ballsy engine and it does sound strained and gets a bit harsh when pushed really hard. But luckily has decent low down torque so dont have to belt the christ out of it. The Rodeo loves to rev and since it has more k's on it it does it more freely. It just needs some extractors and a alloyedit. But really my V8 Calais is the joy of the lot to drive. :)

[FireArc]

hey all if you are interested the NRMA posted a review on the FG I6 with fair comparisons to the Aurion and Commodore.

You can read it here: http://www.mynrma.com.au/cps/rde/xchg/mynrma/hs.xsl/ford_fg_falcon.htm

Some quotes that i believe are relevant to this discussion:


Curtain airbags are standard in Commodore and Aurion, which both score four ANCAP stars.


Driver's seat comfort in all models is reasonable, but we still think Holden does more supportive seats in the Commodore.


Ford says its new FG Falcon can wrest class leadership from the Holden VE Commodore. The six cylinder Falcon is certainly the better car. In V8 territory, though, Commodore is still king.


The Falcon is now a must drive alternative to the Holden VE Commodore and Toyota Aurion. It easily beats the Commodore six in performance, and does the same to the Aurion in dynamic ability, across the full range of six cylinder variants.


Weight has not increased significantly, and for the first time the Falcon's weight is comparable with the Commodore, which put on more than 100kg with the VE. The Falcon XT weighs 1705kg; a VE Omega weighs 1690kg.


Vision is clear around the car. There's no major issue with the front pillars blocking your vision, as with the Commodore.


The 2002 BA, with 182kW and a four speed auto, took 7.8 seconds to reach 100km/h. The 2008 FG, with the five speed, takes 7.3 seconds, comparable with Toyota's 3.5 V6/six speed automatic Aurion.

Holden's 3.6 V6/four speed Commodore Omega won't see which way the Falcon or the Aurion went. It takes 9.1 seconds to reach 100km/h, is weaker across the rev range, breathless in character and grating to the ear.

The 4.0 litre Turbo is a rocket.



As mentioned previously, the Falcon's 4.0 litre engine still has a gruff note under hard acceleration, but otherwise the FG is a smooth, quiet car with low noise, vibration and harshness levels. It's markedly more refined that its six cylinder Commodore rival.


The quickest fastest n/a six in a straight line tested by both Wheels and Motor is a manual SV6, at 6.8 secs if I remember. Ford's own time for the FG XR6 is 7.1.

Hey mate good post; the main thing i would query is where you got 6.8 seconds from? 0-100 isn't everything either. According to Redbook, the Aurion was 0.3 seconds faster to 100 than the BA mk2 Xr6 yet ended up half a second slower by the end of the 1/4 mile due to poor torque. I recently went to the Perth motorshow and was SHOCKED to see that the Aurion TRD had the same Torque as the new FG I6 NA!!! A credit indeed to Aussie engineering,

Here, the humble XT did a mid 14 second 1/4 mile:

http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/ArticleDetail.aspx?ArticleID=44733


Parked side by side, the SV6 kills the Ford and the Aurion in the looks dept. IMO and for alot of buyers that's mostly what it comes down too. Look how Mazda are doing now that they have a decent designer.

Agree with your last point but the first point is down to personal preference. Many think the VE is too in your face and looks puss unless they are fully kitted up, yet an Aurion or Falcon without a kit can still hold it's own as the look is more subtle

[Holden Man]

....Many think the VE is too in your face and looks puss unless they are fully kitted up, yet an Aurion or Falcon without a kit can still hold it's own as the look is more subtle


Good post - very informative

The SV6 is fully kitted up and looks very much like (almost indentical) an SS.
(It just look fast, even though it isn't as fast as it's rivals)

The XR6 and SX6 look a little underdone/wimpy.

But as you said it all comes down to personal taste.

Which car is selling the most again ? :jester:

[kpop]

Quote:
Vision is clear around the car. There's no major issue with the front pillars blocking your vision, as with the Commodore.

ah yes the A pillar - if you guys think holdens is bad, try sittin in a honda accord - its about 10cm thick and you pretty much cant see anything between 1:30 and 2:30 position

[GODSMACK]

Quote:
Vision is clear around the car. There's no major issue with the front pillars blocking your vision, as with the Commodore.

ah yes the A pillar - if you guys think holdens is bad, try sittin in a honda accord - its about 10cm thick and you pretty much cant see anything between 1:30 and 2:30 position

U think thats bad, try a 350z... They are shocking...

[cholo]

Since when Calais owners were considered "well off" financially? ;)

I just sold my Skyline a few weeks ago, need to buy a property and a Corolla in a couple of months. Paying cash for the 07 Corolla... taking a loan (alone) for the house. But you are right, I still have lots to learn about money and finance... really want to be driving an exotic and owning a number of investment properties soon...
Ill give you a wave sometime on the street :) Might even shout you a beer.

Thanks for the encouragement to do even better! google

Sir D this is a v8 forum. Its true why are you here? Alot of us v8 owners arent rich but its our passion and we would rather spend an extra $50 a week (compared to a 4 cyl maybe) on petrol than spend on other things like going to a restaurant or your daily 2-3 cups of coffee.

So its not a matter of whos rich driving what its what that extra spare cash you spend on during the week.

There are heaps of people here who have investment properties and own v8s too. Not a corolla. Perhaps next time save your childish comments to yourself.

cheers

cholo

[Ned_Flanders666]

No dramas with the Holden sixes here, they do the job for me just fine :)

[Ghia351]

Good post - very informative

The SV6 is fully kitted up and looks very much like (almost indentical) an SS.
(It just look fast, even though it isn't as fast as it's rivals)

The XR6 and SX6 look a little underdone/wimpy.

But as you said it all comes down to personal taste.

Which car is selling the most again ? :jester:Corolla...unfortunately...


The quickest fastest n/a six in a straight line tested by both Wheels and Motor is a manual SV6, at 6.8 secs if I remember. Ford's own time for the FG XR6 is 7.1. Because SV6 has a six-speed box with a low first to overcome the high 2.9 diff they lumber these with.
Current May'08 Wheels lists SV6 M6 @ 7.4secs 0-100
and A5 @ 8.1 secs

current NRMA test for FG XT Falcon A5 is 7.3 secs.

..guessing Motor would show lower numbers.

[Ausmartin1]

My VXII Buick 6 is a GEM.
Simple, good low down torque and works.

You can keep the later high tech crap.

Cast Iron and simple - I LOVE IT.
Economy of a four cylinder and power of an old carburated V8.
Whats not to like :)

[windsorace]

My VXII Buick 6 is a GEM.
Simple, good low down torque and works.

You can keep the later high tech crap.

Cast Iron and simple - I LOVE IT.
Economy of a four cylinder and power of an old carburated V8.
Whats not to like :)


Just drove a VE V6 for the last week and that engine is terrible. Every hill I went up with cruise on, the Box kicked back 2 gears by the time I was at the top of the hill. When I reached the crest turning left or right you just about slingshoted off the road. Lame ass Torque-less pieces of cess! Give me a real straight torquer anyday!

[Frankster_P]

What is hapening in the next model?
Whenever that is coming.

Direct injection?
They should lose the smaller output version.
Lose the 4 speed auto too. 5 speed standard.

[lv619]

The commodores V6 is very poor compared to its local counterparts, both in harshness and fuel economy. However it doesn't help that the automatic is really poor too.

[vxclubsport569]

I agree that Holden has the worst 6 of the big 4 cars: Falcon, commy, Aurion and 380.

The Ford engine is far superior to drive and FG will only increase the gap

As for V8's, TKO to Holden/HSV, hence my choice of drive

And as lv619 said the auto doesn't help on base models

[windsorace]

I think the other part of the issue is that both holden and ford sixes are made in australia but only one is a world class motor and it ain't the bent one!!

[theco]

Corolla...unfortunately...



The Mazda3 actually

[Slimbo]

With current petrol prices every bit of fuel economy helps. Its no wonder that Toyota overshot Ford and Holden in car sales and will keep on selling more in the future... you guys with V8s must be pretty loaded to fill up every week lol

I cant wait for my little 07 Corolla... no power or grunt but my wallet will love it.

The age of cars is well and trully over.

Well sorry to say, around town my 6lt V8 gets roughly the same economy as the wifes V6, when i drive it gentle.

On the highway is where the V6 kills the V8 for economy, saying that, i get better than 10l/100kms on the highway out of my V8

[kpop]

Just drove a VE V6 for the last week and that engine is terrible. Every hill I went up with cruise on, the Box kicked back 2 gears by the time I was at the top of the hill. When I reached the crest turning left or right you just about slingshoted off the road. Lame ass Torque-less pieces of cess! Give me a real straight torquer anyday!

yes holdens cruise controll is terrible. say if you set it at 60kph and go up a hill, its not till the car hits around 54kph that the cruise controill will kick in, and itll kick in hard, so youll end up doing around 67kph

very annoying indeed !

but i actually find the 5 speed auto in my calais to be very smooth, you cant hear or feel the gear changes at all. maybe you guys are talking about the 4 speed when you say its crap? also in regards to fuel economy, i get around 600 - 700L from a full tank in my alloytec. its actually the fuel trip meter that confuses people - its very conservative or way out. mine will say the tank is empty, but when i fill it up it will only take 45L meaning there is 30Liters of fuel still left !

[Dacious]

Corolla...unfortunately...


Current May'08 Wheels lists SV6 M6 @ 7.4secs 0-100
and A5 @ 8.1 secs

current NRMA test for FG XT Falcon A5 is 7.3 secs.

..guessing Motor would show lower numbers.

It was Motor BFYB in 2006. Same test set that had the VE SS 5.2/13.4 and F6 5.3/13.5. Can't find it now, but it is floating around. The VE SV6 was also very quick around the go-cart track at Oran compared to some more fancied opposition.

Two years on, new model - I'd expect the Falcon to be quicker. Remember, it's got 400cc extra pulling only a little more weight.

My point is not to say the Holden motor is better - I still have to see any evidence it's atrocius - but it's not as bad as made out. The 180/4 speed is no gem - but I'd hazard a guess and say it works for people. Certainly see lots of single-pipe Berlinas which would mostly be private sales. Base Falcon sixes like my workmate's LPG XT with 4-speed are no charmers, either. It takes forever to change gears, has a sloppy drivetrain you can feel from the passenger's seat, is pretty sluggish in most respects and doesn't win any quality awards.

Alloytech still has certain virtues. Just imagine how bad the Toyo would handle with the Barra onboard (if it would fit) or how much the VE or FG would suck ass with that limp-wristed little Lexus motor in it.

Toyota has to be hurting for profits off the Aurion - they recently dropped prices on the range and when you consider the content of the Aurion (six airbags, ESC standard) when they were giving the Lexus 3.5/sixspeed drivetrain away to start with. Yank Camrys still come with 5-speed boxes.

[VY18s]

Holden could improve the V6, but why when the V8 is so good?

Much like Ford with their 6s, and pretty much neglecting the V8s.

Holden for V8s
Ford for 6s

Although if I was to buy a new Falcon, I would most likely get the V8, despite the I6 running rings around it.

At the end of the day "There's nothing like a V8". The Boss kicks the sh*t out of the I6 in the sound department.

:)

[VY18s]

Also adding onto the whole "Holden imports V8s" crap, Ford have imported V8s in the past.

351? 289?

The only difference is Ford didn't have to change the badge, but it's alright when Ford imports??? PFFFT.

Enjoy Ford's "All Aussie" 6, because it's going in a couple of years for an American V6.

[vecommo]

It makes me laugh when Ford fans carry on about how 'Aussie' their 6 is. What will they be saying in 2010 when their new V6 is 'fully imported'?
That will make the Alloytec far more Aussie, at least it will still be made here.

[VY18s]

It makes me laugh when Ford fans carry on about how 'Aussie' their 6 is. What will they be saying in 2010 when their new V6 is 'fully imported'?
That will make the Alloytec far more Aussie, at least it will still be made here.

Yeah tell me about it.

Can't wait to see the argument they pull out then.

[Sir-D]

Well sorry to say, around town my 6lt V8 gets roughly the same economy as the wifes V6, when i drive it gentle.

On the highway is where the V6 kills the V8 for economy, saying that, i get better than 10l/100kms on the highway out of my V8

Holden's v6 isnt that economical really, but for a v8 I guess its ok.

[lv619]

Holden could improve the V6, but why when the V8 is so good?

Much like Ford with their 6s, and pretty much neglecting the V8s.

Holden for V8s
Ford for 6s

Although if I was to buy a new Falcon, I would most likely get the V8, despite the I6 running rings around it.

At the end of the day "There's nothing like a V8". The Boss kicks the sh*t out of the I6 in the sound department.

That would be a bit detrimental to holdens continuing dominance into the future if they dont focus improving on the V6's ability to compete with its counterparts. After all, the V8's are not the bread and butter of the company, the fleet selling V6's keep the company going.


It makes me laugh when Ford fans carry on about how 'Aussie' their 6 is. What will they be saying in 2010 when their new V6 is 'fully imported'?
That will make the Alloytec far more Aussie, at least it will still be made here.

Yeah. Ford will have a state of the art world class international V6, whilst holden will still be stuck with the same locally 'manufactured' alloytech V6 which has been lagging behind for years. Buyers are not influenced on what is made here or overseas any more anyway. Just take a look at Toyota's influence on the market in recent times (and the demise of Mitsubishi for that matter).

[old holden V8]

Having owned both an Ecotec, and now a 175 Alloytech, I'd like to add a few things.

1. The Ecotech was much better down low (compared to the Alloytech), and delivered good fuel economy. Towing in particular, was better with the Ecotech. Fuel economy is better on the Alloytech.

2. Service wise, the Alloytech requires it at 15K, the Ecotech at 10k.

3. The Ecotech is much harsher up top, the Alloytech much smoother. Idle of the Ecotech is rougher than the Alloytech.

4. The Alloytech feels like it goes harder. It loves to rev.

5. The Transmission on the VZ Alloytech is much smoother than the one in the VT Ecotech. (Auto)

6. The throttle is harder on the Alloytech (yes it's that noticeable), but the cruise on the Alloytech is fantastic in the context of Victoria's 3km/h leeway on $$$ camera's.

7. Sometimes the Alloytech throttle opens at a different ratio for a given gear/road speed. I have read that this because of the quasi traction control the Alloytech has. A tune can/does fix this. The Ecotech throttle was more connected, and traction could be lost quite easily - compared to Alloytech.

I think Holden are playing their cards close to their chest in regards to 6 cylinder development. The 8 cylinder variant is selling quite well, and so are the 6 cylinder models. So why change?

When a freshen up of the 'bread & butter' 6 cylinder variant is needed - perhaps due to fuel prices, even perhaps due to a performance market shift, I think there will be some interesting updates. Maybe Direct injection, F.I, alternative fuels, and (surely) Diesel 6 cylinder engines. Why release them now when the current Powertrain range is doing so well?

But I think when the time is right Holden will move quickly with the six.

My 2c


Laurie

:-)

[buickman]

It's simple if you want the power buy a 8 and don't cry about the petrol, if your worried about your wallet, then buy a suzuki cappacino its a 3cyl......

Have to agree with philosophy.

But the 3.8ltr 87 GNX Buick with the Turbo V6 was a powerful mtr pity Holden did not fit these mtrs into the VN's after giving the RB30 up. The EA's with their 3.9 CPI & MPI mtr would have had no answer to that GM V6 and in fact I think they were poorer performers than the N/A 3.8 Buick V6 fitted to the Vn's. So the post does Holden have the worst V6 would have been reversed to Ford having the worst 6. A pointless thread

[vxclubsport569]

Have to agree with philosophy.

But the 3.8ltr 87 GNX Buick with the Turbo V6 was a powerful mtr pity Holden did not fit these mtrs into the VN's after giving the RB30 up. The EA's with their 3.9 CPI & MPI mtr would have had no answer to that GM V6 and in fact I think they were poorer performers than the N/A 3.8 Buick V6 fitted to the Vn's. So the post does Holden have the worst V6 would have been reversed to Ford having the worst 6. A pointless thread


A pointless quote noting a hypothetical situation and comparision of motors 20years ago. Are you going to compare Kingswoods against X series falcons 6's too :confused:

This thread has some merits in current day comparisions

[payaya]

I dont see much of a difference between the old 3.8 to the 3.6L. Drive them back to back and they sound and feel the same.

[Scommo]

Just incase you guys are interested, I just got back from a trip to Mudgee and back from Sydney with some driivng in between

2006 SV6 M6 Alloytec 195kwillawasps ute.

Filled the tank to the top, and got home with it on 8km left :bow:

662.1km, I did with an average of 9.3/100km. I had a bike and tents and gear in the back too.

[ShanghaiVZ]

2006 SV6 M6 Alloytec 195kwillawasps ute.

:lol: run for them hills :lol: where u score those extra 5 killawasps? VZ had 190.

Holden/Ford = driver's cars
Toyota = Not a driver's car just Cardigan wearer's who don't care about image or driving :lol:

[Alan Shore]

Also adding onto the whole "Holden imports V8s" crap, Ford have imported V8s in the past.

351? 289?

The only difference is Ford didn't have to change the badge, but it's alright when Ford imports??? PFFFT.

Enjoy Ford's "All Aussie" 6, because it's going in a couple of years for an American V6.

Same could apply to GM, 327/350. 351`s were made here until about 82 as well. The basic design of the Ecotec/alloytec is the old Buick V6 anyway and it sure didnt come from Oz either. Heck even the all aussie Commodore started as an Opel. What difference does it make anyway, the world we live in unfortunately is alot of components for cars are imported. Why carry on, just enjoy what we have and hope both sides continue to pump out cars worthy of our passion. God help we should all have to drive Prius

[Pickles]

I've never thought much of the "new" alloytech engine-for normal driving I don't think it's much better than the old ecotech engine, which, particularly down low, might even have been better.
So, I'm waiting for direct injection to appear, which I thought might've come this year-at which stage another 20KW won't do it any harm at all. It needs something, because Ford's 6 is getting massive plaudits at the moment, even in N.A. form, from the press.
Cheers, Pickles.

[Dacious]

Same could apply to GM, 327/350. 351`s were made here until about 82 as well. The basic design of the Ecotec/alloytec is the old Buick V6 anyway and it sure didnt come from Oz either. Heck even the all aussie Commodore started as an Opel. What difference does it make anyway, the world we live in unfortunately is alot of components for cars are imported. Why carry on, just enjoy what we have and hope both sides continue to pump out cars worthy of our passion. God help we should all have to drive Prius

Err, no. The Ecotec is basically a 90 deg OHV smallblock V8 minus 2 cylinders with the crank rephased. It has two balance shafts to counter the shakes in a 90 degree v6 and is all cast iron. The Alloytech is a 60 degree all alloy V6 with no balancers because it has inherent perfect primary balance. The two motors share virtually no components, other than maybe a few nuts'n'bolts. The new Ford Cyclone is exactly the same config. In fact, the 3.7 litre version of this motor is around today in the Mazda CX9.

The A/T is somewhat harsh at the upper RPM as V6s tend to be. That's different to the shakes the E/T gets.

The A/T doesn't seem more powerful, but it produces more torque and spins more quickly everywhere. It just doesn't 'feel' fast, especially as the car it is propelling is bigger/heavier. It does have big bonuses in weight (only 170kg installed, 63kg less than Ecotech) size and packaging, one reason why the V6 Commy still handles better apparently than even the FG I6, not to mention has better interior space.

[csv rulz]

My ecotec makes a hell of a lot of noise without being very quick. But in saying that it is the most reliable car i could want. Has not cost me cent apart from the fuel pump going at 270,000km. The car now has close to 280,000km on it. I run dual fuel - on gas i get about 13L/100km thats combined town and highway. On petrol i range between 8L/100km to 11l/100km depending on how i drive. Which is pretty good for a big sedan that carries 5 in comfort.

The gearbox is rough as and is the worst piece of equipment when the road gets twisty and you want to do some spirited driving but once again its so bloody reliable. Iv not spent a cent on it and its still got no issues.

I dont think i will ever sell my VT - if i keep servicing it every 10,000km i should get a lot longer out of her yet. So im gonna drive it till it dies and than depending on the price of a motor - i might just drop another one in. I will eventually get a new car but its worth more to me than it is to sell so it will become the bomb car to run round town in.

[sh|tbmxrider]

I am now going to be able to compare engine to engine...I had a VX Wagon and VY Sedan 1.5yrs ago as company cars, and next week I pick up my 07 VE Omega Ute, 195kw & 6spd Manual, which I will have for the next 6-9 months...


Ive driven the 180kw low output VE 4spd several times before, and thought it was rubbish...andf the 195kw 5spd auto in a SV6, which wasnt too bad...lets see what its like to live with, eh?

[payaya]

Err, no. The Ecotec is basically a 90 deg OHV smallblock V8 minus 2 cylinders with the crank rephased. It has two balance shafts to counter the shakes in a 90 degree v6 and is all cast iron. The Alloytech is a 60 degree all alloy V6 with no balancers because it has inherent perfect primary balance. The two motors share virtually no components, other than maybe a few nuts'n'bolts. The new Ford Cyclone is exactly the same config. In fact, the 3.7 litre version of this motor is around today in the Mazda CX9.

The A/T is somewhat harsh at the upper RPM as V6s tend to be. That's different to the shakes the E/T gets.

The A/T doesn't seem more powerful, but it produces more torque and spins more quickly everywhere. It just doesn't 'feel' fast, especially as the car it is propelling is bigger/heavier. It does have big bonuses in weight (only 170kg installed, 63kg less than Ecotech) size and packaging, one reason why the V6 Commy still handles better apparently than even the FG I6, not to mention has better interior space.

"Compared to the basic Falcon, the Commodore has a more cushioned ride but you can feel the body rock gently from side to side on bumpy surfaces.

In summary, the Falcon comfortably has the edge in ride, handling and steering, but the Commodore has a roomier, more comfortable cabin."

Apparently??

[Swordie]

The latest Motor magazine implies the NA XR6 is a better car than the SV6.