VE SS rattles on startup

[im_lazy_2]

Hi, I have a VE SS with 20,000 kms on the clock. Once in a while on startup in rattles very loudly for a few seconds, then runs fine. This can happen when it's hot or cold, but sometimes sounds fine. Anyone else got this problem.

[INTNSSV]

Is it like a tic / clap sound?

Bit of piston slap id say, can happen on these types of engines, but nothing to worry about I dont think?

[youngstar]

Yeah I have a noise on startup as well. Hard to describe exactly but sort of a "tic-tac, tic-tac" sound. Only notice it when I start the car & then sit there idling. Does not happen when the engine is warm. Just had the 15,000km service last week so I assuming everything is in order :confused: Dealer probably wouldn't say I need a new engine anyway until a piston shoots out the block ! :rofl:

[GODSMACK]

Hi, I have a VE SS with 20,000 kms on the clock. Once in a while on startup in rattles very loudly for a few seconds, then runs fine. This can happen when it's hot or cold, but sometimes sounds fine. Anyone else got this problem.I wouldnt take any abnormal engine noise lightly..

See if you can somehow record the noise next time it happens, problems like that can be hard to duplicate and the dealer will just tell you they couldnt find anything wrong with it...

[B-REX]

My VE SS ute does the same. It appears to be normal "collapsed lifter" noise.

It takes up after 1 or 2 seconds and all is ok.

[GODSMACK]

My VE SS ute does the same. It appears to be normal "collapsed lifter" noise.

It takes up after 1 or 2 seconds and all is ok. If its normal, wouldnt all the engines do it, not just a few.. IMO, the engine shouldnt be making any abnormal noises on startup.... Small noises , even those lasting 1 or 2 seconds could eventually lead to bigger problems... Im no expert, but id get it checked out....

[B-REX]

If its normal, wouldnt all the engines do it, not just a few.. IMO, the engine shouldnt be making any abnormal noises on startup.... Small noises , even those lasting 1 or 2 seconds could eventually lead to bigger problems... Im no expert, but id get it checked out....

All hydraulic lifters have bleed down and when the engine stops with the valve open the lifters bleed down (collapse). They do not pump up until oil gets to them under pressure so it would be normal for them to be noisy for a few cycles until they fill up.

[im_lazy_2]

I don't think it's piston slap as it goes away after just a few seconds, more like lifters.When it happens you can't miss it and there is no doubting it, (my mrs can even hear it !!) The first time I heard it I turned it off straight away and checked the oil level (it was full) because it sounded like the sump plug had fallen out. I'm not too worried about it, I'm sure it can be fixed, just wondering if it was common

[Marco]

Doesn't sound healthy....my VE SS with 38,000km makes no such noise.

[Steve'sR8]

Mines got 5500km on it now & has done it since new, I thought it may have been a faulty oil filter draining over night & taking a couple of seconds to fill up & get oil pressure. I told the dealer about it & requested they replace the oil & filter at the 3k service at my expense & they refused stating that removing the running in oil too early might effect my engine warranty! I rang Holden who assured me it wouldn't & then insisted they do it, but it still rattles roughly 1 in 5 cold starts & I guess I can't be sure they actually replaced it . It sounds very much like there's no oil getting to the lifters. I might change it myself just to be sure as my local dealer really wasn't very helpful, they didn't fix any of the 4 minor issues I raised & the service advisor was too lazy to walk 20m out to my car for me show him the problems in an attempt to make diagnosis easier.

Cheers, Steve.

[Scommo]

My oldies BA Boss does it too, just started doing it at 100xxx. Its really loud for a few secs then dissapears.

[Lucifer]

My oldies BA Boss does it too, just started doing it at 100xxx. Its really loud for a few secs then dissapears





Hardly the same thing. The Boss engine uses a quad cam design without lifters.

That kind of sound from your oldies' car is likely to be something entirely different.

[Deanss-v]

Ya when i had the pursuit it did it. It was the hydraulic tensioner leaking back and leaving the timing chain loose, so when on startup the chain whipped around until the oil pressure built up the tension it again.

Anyway my ssv doesn't do it, it only has 3000K on it so i hope it never does.

[quinny0410]

Mine seems to do it when its been sitting there for a few days.Noise is there for about 1 second .My Vyss ute done it aswell.Nothing to worry about i dont think

[BullockBob]

Doesn't sound healthy....my VE SS with 38,000km makes no such noise.

There are numerous threads on this.

And yes, if you listen hard enuff, i do believe they all do it. Certainly every LS engine I've had has always done it.

[Fosters]

I hAVE 30OOO KS ON MINE , DID THAT BEFORE 1ST SERVICE, TOLD DEALDER , NEVER DONE IT SINCE.

[im_lazy_2]

There are numerous threads on this.

And yes, if you listen hard enuff, i do believe they all do it. Certainly every LS engine I've had has always done it.

I've had 3 other LS engines and they most certainly don't make the noise that I'm hearing from this one. I'm not being a worry wart, it just a problem that needs to be fixed, and was wondering if others had found the same.

[cams290]

My oldies BA Boss does it too, just started doing it at 100xxx. Its really loud for a few secs then dissapears.

It will be the plastic timing chain tensioners, they warp and bleed down over night.
They replace them with metal ones that fixes the problem, if it is still under warranty i would get it fixed.

[GMLSI]

I also have the same problem with my Feb08 SS which has done 1000kms. It only seems to do it if it sits for longer than one day. If I drive the car everyday it doesn't seem to do it.
My other LSX powered car does not make this noise.

[BullockBob]

I've had 3 other LS engines and they most certainly don't make the noise that I'm hearing from this one. I'm not being a worry wart, it just a problem that needs to be fixed, and was wondering if others had found the same.

Fair enuff. Sounds like she's screwed then. :rofl:

Without actually hearing the noise though its a little difficult to get reliable info from an online forum.

[Black Diamond]

Is it like a tic / clap sound?

Bit of piston slap id say, can happen on these types of engines, but nothing to worry about I dont think?

Mine does this exact noise you are describing above, only when its hot. This is my first LS engined comm ive had. Ive been quiet concerned about it. Do you thing that it is anything to worry about as some people have told me that its quiet common for these engines and nothing to worry about? I'm about to take it in for its 3000km service so maybe i should mention it to them.
The tic/ clap sound is what i am talking about not the startup rattle.

[holdnon]

Does anybody's ss have a constant lifter noise? Mine has nearly done 3,000k's and it sounds like my old gen 3, not quiet as bad, but its still there. Holden reckons it is 100% normal for these engines. Im sure everybody would have heard the noise that most of the gen 3's make, and i was told this was only a gen 3 issue, and the new V8's are better?

Cheers

[Rocky16]

Hi,

I have this issue in my ve ssv ute. The tapping tic-tac tic-tac noise happens at startup and continues until the vehicle is warm. I took the car to the dealership and left the vehicle with them overnight so they could test drive it in the morning when cold. They heard the noise, pulled the engine out and then informed me that the noise I was hearing was piston slap and that the piston to cylinder clearance was over tolerance. I couldnt believe it when they said that they would replace the engine under warranty. I have travelled 50,000km in the car and I have been told that I will be etting it back at the end of next week.

:)

..
Cant believe it had these problems tho..

[bigdogdazza]

Hi,

I have this issue in my ve ssv ute. The tapping tic-tac tic-tac noise happens at startup and continues until the vehicle is warm. I took the car to the dealership and left the vehicle with them overnight so they could test drive it in the morning when cold. They heard the noise, pulled the engine out and then informed me that the noise I was hearing was piston slap and that the piston to cylinder clearance was over tolerance. I couldnt believe it when they said that they would replace the engine under warranty. I have travelled 50,000km in the car and I have been told that I will be etting it back at the end of next week.

:)

..
Cant believe it had these problems tho..

SWEET! Not all horror stories from warranty claims then eh?

[M&Ms]

It will be the plastic timing chain tensioners, they warp and bleed down over night.
They replace them with metal ones that fixes the problem, if it is still under warranty i would get it fixed.

Actually, the problem with the BOSS motors isn't the plastic tensioners themselves, but rather the crappy oil filters Ford (and most other retailers here) sell, which contain no silicone anti-drain back valve, leading to dry start-ups which prematurely kill the plastic tensioners. Get yourself a K&N oil filter or better yet the Made in USA Motorcraft FL-820s filters (Actual filter for the 5.4 motor), and the problem will dissappear. I've cured five BOSS motors by just using the FL-820s filter! I bet it's a similar thing with this guys SS. Try an oil filter with a silicone anti-drain back valve (K&N will have this), and see if your problem goes away.
Good Luck

[HEXEM]

Took mine to my dealer today and said I would like this noise investigated.

I have posted some video files up of the noise. Its only there for about 10 seconds and goes away. Like others have said, it is only on stone cold engine starts (thats most noticable).

Is this the same noise as others have mentioned here?.. Its like a clunking sound.. anyway you be the judge. Hopefully you can play them.

Video 1

Video 2
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk188/VE-SSV/th_ColdStartNoise20102009-2.jpg
Video 3
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk188/VE-SSV/th_ColdStartNoise21102009-3.jpg
Video 4
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk188/VE-SSV/th_ColdStartNoise23102009-4.jpg
Video 5
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk188/VE-SSV/th_ColdStartNoise30092009-5.jpg

Cheers
Phil

[OPTIMUS]

the 5 videos above to me show classic lifter noise to me nothing to be worried about. Come listen to my car sounds like that all the time gets worse with headers.

[dgp]

Men,

I am having the same isssue with my MY09.5 SS-V Sportwagon. It has had a little rattle from new and last week i asked the dealer to come and check out the car after it was sitting for 36 hours and the mechanic confirmed that there was definatelty a top end ticking noise coming from the motor.
2 days later I called the service department manager and, too his credit, he asked me a heap of questions about the sounds that the motor was making and asked if they could have the car overnight and diagnose the problem.
Well, In about 3 weeks when they get some courtesy cars in, my wagon will go in for them to have a look at.
I must say, that i have have had several issues with my MY09.5 SS-V wagon, which was purchased through a dealer in Dandenong, and the service crew at Warrnambool have been second to none in thier efforts to fix any issues that i have experianced.
When they have my vehicle overnight, I hope they pin point the issues that i am having and just get it fixed.

I am a long time Holden man, and have purchased from new, a VU S Pack Ute, VY SS Ute, a VY series II Silver anniversary wagon complete with leather, and a VE SS-V Sportwagon. Plus many other second hand Holden vehicles that i have lovingly restored.

My point being, that all Holden dealers should treat their clients, wether short or long term with the respect that they deserve.

But....I have being buying Holdens since the VC SL/E 310 Pack and bloody expect some sort of repeat benefit that those of our eurpean mates get when they lay down their hard earned cash. Mate, I am a proud Australian and I want to buy an Australian manufactured vehicle that will help prop up our dollar in the internationl market.

Here me ROAR!!

[HEXEM]

the 5 videos above to me show classic lifter noise to me nothing to be worried about. Come listen to my car sounds like that all the time gets worse with headers.

Thanks OPTIMUS, Interesting. The noise I am looking to diagnose is the specific rattling/clunking sound thats in each video that comes in and goes.

in video 2 its most noticeable at 13sec to 26sec than goes away. That noise applys to the other videos. After it has goes all sound ok. Is that noise what your refering to as 'classic lifter' noise?.

Some days it wont do and doesn't do it when the car is warm.

Cheers
Phil

P.S. Sorry about the videos posting twice, not to sure what happend there. I tried to fix it. Maybe a Mod could help clear it up.

[HEXEM]

Are the others who posted having the rattles on startup experiancing the same noise as whats in my videos?

I would like to get some other opinions. I have taken the turtle shell cover off the engine when it makes the noise and I dont hear it at loud compared to when I am down next to the front wheels. Maybe it is not lifter noise?..

Cheers peeps

Phil

[MickmeMate]

Yes my LS1 engine does it every now and then i just havnt worried about it goes away after it's warm

[HEXEM]

Yes my LS1 engine does it every now and then i just havnt worried about it goes away after it's warm

Thanks for the response mate..

My SSV goes into Holden tomorrow for a couple of days to try and identify the issue. I will post up what the outcome is... I know when the car had 27,000klms on the clock it never made that noise.. It now has 60,000klm.

Phil

[Desertws6]

I had the exact same noise as in the videos, but it did not go away. I used a mechanics stethoscope and investigated every part on the engine (ie. both sides, block, valve covers, heads etc.) The problem was actually a bad idler pulley bearing for the A/C, replaced both and no more problems.

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm48/stevespontiacgarage2/SANY0231-1.jpg

http://i293.photobucket.com/albums/mm48/stevespontiacgarage2/SANY0233-1.jpg

Great tool to have in the box! cheap too!

Cheers,
Steve

[NeishaVESS]

I hope you get the issue fixed, Although mine seems too have the same alternator whine? Can we get this problem fixed if it is a problem..

[HEXEM]

Does anyone have an idea of;

1. What it would cost to replace the lifters in an L98? (including total labour)

2. What is the usual time taken to do the work?

3. Would it be better to upgade the quality of the lifters and possibly put in a new cam shaft? and

4. Who would you recomend to do the work?. Given I am located in Canberra. (I am thinking of usuing one of the forum sponsors).

Maybe a sponsor could comment against the questions.

I am hoping that my issue is rectified/fixed under warranty. Should it not be resolved then I need to look at the alternatives.

Cheers

Phil

[HEXEM]

Latest update:

Tests were carried out (oil pressure readings at cold start and idle) to determine if it was oil pressure related. Tests indicate that the pressure was fine (in spec).

The issue has confirmed thoughts (many peoples etc) there is a suspect lifter/s. Now I wait to find out the net step. Will advise on the outcome.

[HEXEM]

Latest update:

Tests were carried out (oil pressure readings at cold start and idle) to determine if it was oil pressure related. Tests indicate that the pressure was fine (in spec).

The issue has confirmed thoughts (many peoples etc) there is a suspect lifter/s. Now I wait to find out the net step. Will advise on the outcome.

Update: Dealer was advised by Holden Technical to strip rocker covers and inlet manifold off the engine and inspect for any damage. I have been advised today that there is scoring on the cam shaft (lobes?) (unknown what has caused it, possibly bad lifters?). Anyway the head is being machined, complete cam shaft, valve somethings and some other bits and peices are being replaced.

Cheers
Phil.

P.S. I did ask for a bigger cam and LS7 lifters but can't do it as its all warranty.... :rolleyes:

[dgp]

This morning i did a little test. When under load, lightly accelerating when cold, the rattle can be clearly herd but when in neutral and free reving up to 2,00 rpm without load, the rattle is really hard to hear.
Does anyone have this same scenario?
Are there any mechanics that have an opinion on this?

[HEXEM]

This morning i did a little test. When under load, lightly accelerating when cold, the rattle can be clearly herd but when in neutral and free reving up to 2,00 rpm without load, the rattle is really hard to hear.
Does anyone have this same scenario?
Are there any mechanics that have an opinion on this?

I am not a mechanic but I would say to you if you haven't already done so. Get to your dealers now and get it looked at ASAP.

My engine is undergoing a complete (internal) rebuild due to finding additional scoring on the camshaft bearings etc. They are not taking any chances. BTW I had a looks at my engine block, sump, where the timing chain is etc and the engine is like new. No carbon or sluge build up at all and the pistons and bores look good. Good something looks ok...

[cookie_ssv]

ive done 2 ve ss's at work in the last 2 months, lifters knocking for approx 30 secs to over a minute and more., does also when hot for a few seconds, pulled the cam out and scoring evident on most lobes, pull heads new cam and lifters and change the oil and good as new.

think its a dodgy bunch of cams that are causing the problem or i guess poorly made lifters..

for the other guy asking for prices, pretty sure the 16 lifters were a little over $1000 and the stocko cam was $500 i think, plus head gaskets bolts and a days labour it would end up being near the 3 -4k mark.

[adamRSLC]

Are the others who posted having the rattles on startup experiancing the same noise as whats in my videos?

I would like to get some other opinions. I have taken the turtle shell cover off the engine when it makes the noise and I dont hear it at loud compared to when I am down next to the front wheels. Maybe it is not lifter noise?..

Cheers peeps

Phil

Yep mine sounds exactly the same , has been doing it for about 40,000 km , has over 100,000 now . Sounds the same as it did when it started , holden said it was normal and i couldnt be stuffed arguing and it doesnt worry me .

adam

---------- Post added at 04:09 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------


ive done 2 ve ss's at work in the last 2 months, lifters knocking for approx 30 secs to over a minute and more., does also when hot for a few seconds, pulled the cam out and scoring evident on most lobes, pull heads new cam and lifters and change the oil and good as new.

think its a dodgy bunch of cams that are causing the problem or i guess poorly made lifters..

for the other guy asking for prices, pretty sure the 16 lifters were a little over $1000 and the stocko cam was $500 i think, plus head gaskets bolts and a days labour it would end up being near the 3 -4k mark.

Considering the price wouldnt be better to drop in a create L98 engine , they were 4400 inc gst about a year ago and you get everything new :) .

adam

[HEXEM]

Well I am still waiting to get my car back. I am in week No. 3.

The latest is that the bores were .0002 and .0003 ( I think those numbers are right) out of spec which I was told shouldn't be that far out.

Now I am waiting to hear what the next step is. I have been told it will most likely be a rebore (or honing) and fitting of larger pistons or a new motor. Slowest process in the world...

Question for the those in the know, will fitting bigger pistons cause significant changes to fuel usage?. Currently (before the car was off the road) I would use around 12.8ltrs per 100klm around town. On the highway it would drop to 9ltrs per 100. Am I likely to see larger figures now?

Cheers

[Irish]

Well I am still waiting to get my car back. I am in week No. 3.

The latest is that the bores were .0002 and .0003 ( I think those numbers are right) out of spec which I was told shouldn't be that far out.

Question for the those in the know, will fitting bigger pistons cause significant changes to fuel usage?. Currently (before the car was off the road) I would use around 12.8ltrs per 100klm around town. On the highway it would drop to 9ltrs per 100. Am I likely to see larger figures now?

Cheers

If it is honed they will use standard pistons with oversized rings.

If it is bored then honed it will either be a .030 or a .020 inch increase in bore size. IIRC the standard LS3 bore is 4 inch so any over bore will make no noticeable difference to anything.

[HEXEM]

If it is honed they will use standard pistons with oversized rings.

If it is bored then honed it will either be a .030 or a .020 inch increase in bore size. IIRC the standard LS3 bore is 4 inch so any over bore will make no noticeable difference to anything.

I asked about the possibility of oversized rings and they said no, they will be oversized pistons.

Thanks for the advice...

:goodjob:

[BECAUZ]

VE-SSV, I been reading through this thread and heard your video's and i believe mine does the exact same thing.

With your recent experiences what should i say to the dealer when i approach them? I'm not very technical when it comes to car's so not really sure on what to say.

[HEXEM]

VE-SSV, I been reading through this thread and heard your video's and i believe mine does the exact same thing.

With your recent experiences what should i say to the dealer when i approach them? I'm not very technical when it comes to car's so not really sure on what to say.

The issue I was having only occured when the engine was cold. I recorded the noise on my phone (several times) so I had the evidence of the noise to show my dealer service centre. I told them that I have this strange rattling sound on cold start which lasts for about 20 sec then goes and has been getting progressivly worse.

The issue you might have is getting them to agree that the noise should not be there. Then the best option is to leave the car in their workshop overnight and be there first thing in the morning to do a cold start so they can hear the noise. Ask for the service manager, forman and other mechanic to be present when starting the car so everyone gets to hear it. You need to point out that YOU want to be there to cold start the car.

With my car once the noise went away if you turned the car off and back on again it didn't make the noise. It was decided to leave the car there for the day and repeat the process again to pick up the noise.

They did an oil pressure test on cold start to rule out oil pressue issues, then they made the diagnosis that is was a lifter issue. The dealer then has to go through Holden Technical to approve any further action, e.g: replace lifters, etc etc.

When they pulled down my engine they discovered scoring on some lifter bearings and on the camshaft lobes. I was told yesterday they are now looking to put a NEW (not reconditioned ACDelco) engine in.

Hope this info helps.

[BECAUZ]

Thanks VE-SSV, appreciate it.

Mine does it in the mornings too. Has 9000Km's on it and only does it when it's cold. Alot of people have said it's normal bt after reading this and hearing your video i think it's not.

Ill call past holden next week sometime.

Cheers

[HEXEM]

Advise needed here.....

Well, Holden was hoping to get a complete new engine in. However I have been told that there are none available at this time to replace it.

They are sending a brand new block, pistons etc. Question for those in the know.

1. Should I be using a mineral engine oil (based on a new block, pistons, camshaft, lifters, etc etc) once the engine is put back together?. They will be checking the crankshaft and big end barings, should they require replacing they will be done also.

Cheers eveyone.

[Irish]

Advise needed here.....

Well, Holden was hoping to get a complete new engine in. However I have been told that there are none available at this time to replace it.

They are sending a brand new block, pistons etc. Question for those in the know.

1. Should I be using a mineral engine oil (based on a new block, pistons, camshaft, lifters, etc etc) once the engine is put back together?. They will be checking the crankshaft and big end barings, should they require replacing they will be done also.

Cheers eveyone.

I am not a break in guru, but I would personally run a good quality mineral oil for 1500k's. Give it a good few boot fulls up hills and such, not continued high revvs but load it up a bit. Then change over to a synthetic and drive it normally.

[HEXEM]

I am not a break in guru, but I would personally run a good quality mineral oil for 1500k's. Give it a good few boot fulls up hills and such, not continued high revvs but load it up a bit. Then change over to a synthetic and drive it normally.

That's what I thought. I will see what the guys at holden come back to me with (As I asked them today). They were going to put the usual oil I get (Mobil1 5w30) in it.

Thanks for the advice Irish.

[calais-346]

Mineral oil, don't baby it, no constant revs like sitting on 100kms an hour, vary revs and load.
They are the best things to do, but low tension rings roller lifters etc in engines these days makes breaking in less of a nessacity imo.

[VX2VESS]

ive done 2 ve ss's at work in the last 2 months, lifters knocking for approx 30 secs to over a minute and more., does also when hot for a few seconds, pulled the cam out and scoring evident on most lobes, pull heads new cam and lifters and change the oil and good as new.

think its a dodgy bunch of cams that are causing the problem or i guess poorly made lifters..

for the other guy asking for prices, pretty sure the 16 lifters were a little over $1000 and the stocko cam was $500 i think, plus head gaskets bolts and a days labour it would end up being near the 3 -4k mark.

funny you can buy the same lifters direct from the usa for $150, Holden mark up

what year build are these failing cars

so VE still have these issues, same as the ls1 did

[cookie_ssv]

$150 ? jeebs massive markup! um the first one was a late 06 model with 70k and 2nd was an early 07 with 30k on the clock.. havnt seen any others as yet.

[Marco]

Hmm...mine's an early 07 model which I'm sure has dodgy lifters, but the dealership reckoned they couldn't fault it. Approximately 30 seconds of ticking on cold start up which is improved slightly by making sure the oil is at full capacity. They reckoned it was the oil bleeding out of the lifters overnight that caused the ticking?

[HEXEM]

Marco, not sure who your taking your car to. When I showed them the video files of my car (the ones on page 3 here) they wanted to keep the car overnight so it would be a cold start. When they heard the noise live they said that didn't sound right and the rest is now history... (mind you I am still waiting to get my car back:vpo:).

If its the same sound as in my vid files, it was traced back to fault lifters.. I was told that the L98 uses the L76 lifters which are designed to shut down (when under DOD, AFM software activated) or something like that. Basically the L98 does not have that software option and the lifters should not "bleed down" apparently... Anyway thats sort of the explanation I got...

I know when I bought the car (Jan 07 build) it never made the noise. After owning the GEN3 I was listening for the startup noises but it was wisper quiet. It started around the 35,000klm mark and got progressively louder. My car has 60,000klm now.

For what its worth my car goes to the north side.... :)

Cheers,
Phil

[HEXEM]

Thought I'd share the end result.

Well after 7 weeks of waiting I finally got my car back on Friday.

Complete engine rebuild (due to an apparent lack of spare L98's). New block, pistons, big end, cam, lifters, bearings, etc, etc, etc.... My power steering pump gave up the ghost when everything went back in, so that was replaced also...

I was watching the rebuild throughouts its stages and the attention to detail was top notch, very maticulous. The level of car taken from the build to looking after the car was great. The "new" motor sounds great and you would never know the engine was removed/replaced from the car, everything is back in its original place (cables, hoses etc).

:goodjob: from my Holden service team (Gerald Slaven Holden).

Cheers

Phil :xmas:

[BECAUZ]

Good luck with your new motor mate.

Mine will be going in to holden for a complete check in mid jan. Hopefully there is nothing wrong. Ill be taking videos of it too.

Thanks for your advice phil.

Cheers

[dave0]

I Agree they all do (Till the lifters pump up) to a certian amount. Mine does it every now and then it seems better after I went to Synthetic oil but that might just be a coincidence. As long as it goes awway within a few seconds I would not worry about it.

[HEXEM]

Well a couple of months on now and guess what, The rattles are starting to come back. :vpo:

I have captured the noise (exactly as before) on my phone to play to the dealer and they are having me bring the car is for an overnight cold start. They couldn't believe that it has reoccured.. I'd say a bad batch of internal bits.

I am getting tired of this issue and the holden V8 engine... As much as I like them I don't think I will be getting another one, I will be going down to a V6. I have told them I do not want to go through another 7 weeks without my car to try and fix it.. It's also got the harmonic balancer wobble now too.

I am so over this. 5 other SS (AFM and L98 all with varying K's) at work do not make the same noises as in my previous video posts. One of the service advisors sugguested I run a semi synthetic engine 15w40 should fix it

What do I have to do to get rid of this issue (besides trading the car)? Maybe properly diagnose the problem would be a start...

Phil

[bladerunner]

Well a couple of months on now and guess what, The rattles are starting to come back. :vpo:

I have captured the noise (exactly as before) on my phone to play to the dealer and they are having me bring the car is for an overnight cold start. They couldn't believe that it has reoccured.. I'd say a bad batch of internal bits.

I am getting tired of this issue and the holden V8 engine... As much as I like them I don't think I will be getting another one, I will be going down to a V6. I have told them I do not want to go through another 7 weeks without my car to try and fix it.. It's also got the harmonic balancer wobble now too.

I am so over this. 5 other SS (AFM and L98 all with varying K's) at work do not make the same noises as in my previous video posts. One of the service advisors sugguested I run a semi synthetic engine 15w40 should fix it

What do I have to do to get rid of this issue (besides trading the car)? Maybe properly diagnose the problem would be a start...

Phil

mate this just a thought but what oil are you using, mobil synthetic? if so i would suggest changing to another brand also try using a semi synth oil. the reason i say this is because i was advised very strongly by a well known and respected tuning shop on this forum not to use mobil 1 because they have seen instances of cam lobe and bore scoring on engines that have used mob 1 since new. they actually showed me a cam that had this damage out of a 40thou km engine and it didnt look pretty. anyway like i said just an idea

[HEXEM]

mate this just a thought but what oil are you using, mobil synthetic? if so i would suggest changing to another brand also try using a semi synth oil. the reason i say this is because i was advised very strongly by a well known and respected tuning shop on this forum not to use mobil 1 because they have seen instances of cam lobe and bore scoring on engines that have used mob 1 since new. they actually showed me a cam that had this damage out of a 40thou km engine and it didnt look pretty. anyway like i said just an idea

Mate thanks for the advice. The car gets filled with Mobil1 5w30.

Someone else told me to use 15w40 semi synth oil. I didn't see the logic in that seeing others are running 5w30 weight oil and do not have the same symptoms. However the reply was each engine will have different clearance tollerances and the ones with greater (Gaps?) will respond better to the heavier weighted oil. I am not sure if that is correct but... The noise is only there at cold (left sitting for 8+ house) when the car is hot it seems to sounds fine...

What would you sugguest I throw in it? bearing in mind that the "new" engine is under full warranty (2 years, 50,000klm)? I know the first time they put 10w40 castrol magnatec professional oil (was on the gun) in it and it gave good oil pressure but the engine didn't sound to healthy... Should I get them to put a 15w40 oil in and try it?

Cheers
Phil

[BLUESSV]

I've run Castrol Edge Sports (5w-30) from day one in my ute and always dropped the oil/filter every 7500kms. After 55,000kms it started making a tap-tap noise except it wouldn't go away at all.

Took it to the dealer...they had it for 6 days and diagnosed it as a bad lifter. Apparently the lifters hardened exterior was all worn out or something like that. The dealer was advised to replace all lifters and the camshaft.

All I can say is that I'm glad it's a lease car cause I'm very unimpressed at the quality level of the V8. Not to mention that I'm on my third auto trans as well??

[HEXEM]

I've run Castrol Edge Sports (5w-30) from day one in my ute and always dropped the oil/filter every 7500kms. After 55,000kms it started making a tap-tap noise except it wouldn't go away at all.

Took it to the dealer...they had it for 6 days and diagnosed it as a bad lifter. Apparently the lifters hardened exterior was all worn out or something like that. The dealer was advised to replace all lifters and the camshaft.

All I can say is that I'm glad it's a lease car cause I'm very unimpressed at the quality level of the V8. Not to mention that I'm on my third auto trans as well??

Mate, have a listen to my video files on the previous posts. Is that the same noise?... Cause this is what I am getting again... I'm not impressed. The car goes back in on the 17th for a cold start so they can hear it (I have already shown them the video files on my phone) its the same noise as before, but they want to see it... Maybe its an oil pump issue in that its not getting the oil to the DOD lifter quick enough? The noise seems to go away after about 30sec. I asked them to replace it when they did the rebuild by they insisted that it was fine....

I am just getting fed up with trying to get rid of the noise...

[HEXEM]

Here are some latest videos for people to listen to.

Would changing oil grade and going from synthetic to multi-grade or mineral eliminate the issue? Or is it another bad batch of factory DOD lifters/cam?

Cold Start Knock :: 12032010.flv video by VE-SSV - Photobucket

Cold Start Knock :: 13032010.flv video by VE-SSV - Photobucket

[BLUESSV]

Does sound a little like mine except my noise was half that speed. In that is wasn't running at the same RPM as the crank. Turned out to be only one lifter and that would explain why the noise wasn't at the same RPM as the rest of the motor. In saying that, my noise never went away even after driving around for half an hour.

Your noise does sound like lifter noise. What oil are you running? I've always suck with the 5w-30 but maybe try 0w-40?? But only after you get nowhere with Holden. Problem is mate, if you start trying different oil grades that aren't the recommended specs (5w-30) then you'll leave yourself open to them saying, "no warranty claim cause you didn't use the right spec oil".

[HEXEM]

It runs Mobil1 5w30. The dealer told me to try 15w40....

I might get the holden packaged oil they sell in the spare parts shop..

Phil

[HEXEM]

The car has been at holden for the last 2 days undergoing some tests (oil pressure and a number of cold starts). They put a thicker oil in it (Castrol 10w40) to see how is responds and to measure oil pressure from cold start to full operating temp.

The rattle is still evident and can be heard when you increase the revs at the time when it does it. They believe that it is still a lifter issue but are unsure why at this stage. They will be going back to holden to gain approval for the next steps.... I did ask them to drop the castrol oil as my motor does not repond to it well. I have put some Nulon 10w40 fully synthetic in it for the time being rather than go back to the Mobil 1 5w30.

I am hopefull that it will be sorted soon... (I think a new crate motor is in order this time!)

Cheers for now

Phil

[HEXEM]

Could a fault within the ECM (main computer) cause the knocking? as it controls just about everything in the car. I am not sure and probably not likely, thought I'd ask...

[ssv1]

My SSV has had the lifter tic from the very first time I ever started it cold. (Now 17,000 on the clock ... still does it). Only on cold start though, and lasts about one and a half seconds. To be honest I've never worried about it - my old 308 Statesman used to do the same thing and so did my 302 XB.

[HEXEM]

Well again for a second time the heads came off the engine today and yet again there is bad scoring on the lifter rollers and the cam shaft lobes.

All lobes except for 1 are damaged. What the guys cann't explain why is there is a single score line consistant in the middle of each cam lobe along with other scoring out the outer eges.

One therory is that there is not enough oil getting to the top of the engine which has added to the problem. But the deep score line is the one that cann't be explained.

Does anyone have any ideas as to what might be causing this to occur? I have said all along that the oil pump should have been replaced, but they said the pressure was ok... Any of the forum sponsors or other that have rebuilt their engines to upgrade cams etc seen this bad scoring before?

Appreciate any feedback...

Cheers
Phil

P.S. Just heard back from holden that they did some measurements of the valve seats? or something in that region and there being an inconsistancy with each one (way to much play). This is possibly the cause of the lifter and cam damage. Although it is possible that the scorings are normal and that the valve issue is causing the lifters to be noisy on startup.... God only knows...

[HDT-EFI]

My SSV did it from new.....Its really not a big deal..

[quinny0410]

HEY VE-SSV.

Mine has just started to make the same noise,does not stop even when warm.my 3 year warrenty has just run out 3 days ago,so im abit worried.I have the extended warrenty but that only covers up to $2000.i have noticed that the tapping noise is coming from the left hand side when your facing the motor.Have booked the car in for Monday.Fingers crossed it doesnt cost more then 2grand,lol.i also noticed that the oil pressure gauge dropped to only 2 bars when the noise started but has gone back to 5 bars.

[ADAM 26]

my ve ss ute is pretty rattly on a dead cold start, takes till i drive up the road a bit to come good, only does it when its dead cold tho.

[SIR_SKITZ]

Any update on this, VE-SSV??
Did they replace the oil pump? What about the pick up? Had that been checked to make sure it wasn't blocked, damaged or restricted in any way?

...

My 12/07 VE has this... issue, only its constant, hot or cold ...
Now its got me to thinking that maybe its time for the ol' jigga to go to the quacks for a check up! :(

[HEXEM]

Hey everyone,

I got the car back last week. Took 3.5 weeks to sort it all out. After running tests on the oil pressure the specs for mine were at the top end of the holden spec range so they said it definatly wasn't the issue.

They have replaced the lifters again. While they had the heads off they notices some issues with the inlet valves so they ordered new ones had the local engine centre replace them.

They have also replace the engine oil (as advised by holden technical) to a standard 10w30 mineral oil (ACDelco) to run in the engine for the next 10,000klm..

To tell you the truth I have not stood outside the car to see if the problem is still there.... I just jump in the car start it and wait a few minutes and go.. My noise was pretty obvoius and I havn't realy heard anmore noises. I was just so over the noise I realy don't what to know about it, but I guess I'll have to do the test...

Holden did keep it for an overnight cold start after driving it the day before and they told me that it didn't rattle. I have to beleive them as the HSV tech working on my car I know pretty well...

Cheers,

Phil

[surfwagon]

HEY VE-SSV.

Mine has just started to make the same noise,does not stop even when warm.my 3 year warrenty has just run out 3 days ago,so im abit worried.I have the extended warrenty but that only covers up to $2000.i have noticed that the tapping noise is coming from the left hand side when your facing the motor.Have booked the car in for Monday.Fingers crossed it doesnt cost more then 2grand,lol.i also noticed that the oil pressure gauge dropped to only 2 bars when the noise started but has gone back to 5 bars.

I wouldn't trust them to honour any claim outside warranty.
In my last car about 6yrs ago the 4 spd auto shat itself 4 days out of the 3 yr warranty (just over 60,000klm) and Holden wouldn't claim it, bastards.
Ended up costing me $2300 (instead of $1700) because Holden had already removed the trans before they told me that they wouldn't cover it.
Found out they sent it to the local auto trans place where I could have done a drive in (or towed in) drive out for the $1700 instead of the $2300 Holden charged me.

[TimmyG]

My 08 ssv wagon is making the same sound except its not doing it in the morning for a cold start. It does it after being driven during the day then parked for say 5 hours at night(5pm-10pm give or take) it cools down then i jump in drive home and the noise is there??? Its strange, i did tell holden and they said leave it over night for a cold start but it doesnt do it of a morning so i dont know?

[HEXEM]

Once the colder weather came in (Canberra) the start up rattle was not evident. This is apparently due to the oil being thicker in the morning due to how cold it gets here (-3 to -7 lately).

When I would drive to work (30mins) and park the car for the day, I'd get to my car, start it up and within a few seconds of starting it would rattle. Here is the latest video I took for the Holden technical people.

Misc :: 28042010-ColdStart-Noise.flv video by VE-SSV - Photobucket

So it went from being a stone cold over night start issue to an afternoon issue. This only started happening when the cold weather started....

[TimmyG]

Fair enough well it sounds exactly the same and since we have pretty much the same weather (im in goulburn) id say its the same issue.

[HEXEM]

Fair enough well it sounds exactly the same and since we have pretty much the same weather (im in goulburn) id say its the same issue.

Yeah, Goulburn is definately in the same weather catagory... hehe... The fog has finally lifted to a nice sunny day here.....

Are you dealing with Geissler Holden? if so I think they are under the same Holden District Service Manager who has been dealing with my car.

Cheers
Phil

[TimmyG]

Yeah, Goulburn is definately in the same weather catagory... hehe... The fog has finally lifted to a nice sunny day here.....

Are you dealing with Geissler Holden? if so I think they are under the same Holden District Service Manager who has been dealing with my car.

Cheers
Phil

Yeah mate there the ones im going through i hope they can sort it out but its making the noise at an odd ttime so will be hard for them to catch.

[HEXEM]

do what I did and capture it on your mobile phone as evidence and tell them when it happens the most... If its only doing it now and then, I'd say its at the beginning of the issue...

I had 2 engine centres listen to the noise and all said it was in the Valvetrain.

What I did when it changed from cold start (morning) to afternoon was drive the car for 30mins, drop off the car at the dealership (flat surface) and take the keys with me and go to work. Come back to the dealer in the afternoon and had them listen to it. That way I new the car hadn't been accidently started.

[TimmyG]

Oh ok good idea ill give that a try actually. Bloody cars LOL.

[rcalo169]

Hi, I have a VE SS with 20,000 kms on the clock. Once in a while on startup in rattles very loudly for a few seconds, then runs fine. This can happen when it's hot or cold, but sometimes sounds fine. Anyone else got this problem.

Hi I am_Lazy_2, I am not sure of your exact noise, but i had a similar problem with my MY10 Calais V V8. Noise only happened on start up when engine was cold, turned out to be a broken engine mount. Holden ended up replacing both as there is no way of checking them (they are a sealed hydraulic unit.) Hope this helps

rcalo169

[HEXEM]

Well a few months on and nearly 10,000klm since the second minor rebuild (new lifters only) and the problem has come back.... :vpo:

Morning starts arnt to bad, afternoon starts at the end of work is where it rattles away.... Same sound, some time duration, etc, etc, etc.....

I am so F&%$en over it now I do not know where to turn or how or if this can acutally be fixed... The engine being a complete rebuild is under 2yrs, 50,000klm warranty so I am kinda screwed if I take it else where to let someone else have a go. I have a meeting setup with the service manager to involve the NSW/ACT Holden DSM to see what happens now before throwing money at it... Another 4 weeks wait before a decision...

All I want is for the engine to run properly.... :bawl: Everything else with the car appears to be running nicely.....

Who out there has had this issue fixed and by whom?... Can any forum sponsors shed some light on this issue please...

Please help if you can... appreciate it..

Cheers
Phil

[SS317]

Mate I feel sorry for you, buy now if it was me I'd be thinking of just selling the thing. Hope you can find some one that can sort it for you.

[HEXEM]

Mate I feel sorry for you, buy now if it was me I'd be thinking of just selling the thing. Hope you can find some one that can sort it for you.

Yeah thanks, The thought has crossed my mind a few times..., but I can't afford to change over right now. As much as I like the V8 models, I don't think I will go down that road again... I will just have to settle for a V6.

Cheers
Phil

[vr5speedv6]

Well a few months on and nearly 10,000klm since the second minor rebuild (new lifters only) and the problem has come back.... :vpo:

Morning starts arnt to bad, afternoon starts at the end of work is where it rattles away.... Same sound, some time duration, etc, etc, etc.....

I am so F&%$en over it now I do not know where to turn or how or if this can acutally be fixed... The engine being a complete rebuild is under 2yrs, 50,000klm warranty so I am kinda screwed if I take it else where to let someone else have a go. I have a meeting setup with the service manager to involve the NSW/ACT Holden DSM to see what happens now before throwing money at it... Another 4 weeks wait before a decision...

All I want is for the engine to run properly.... :bawl: Everything else with the car appears to be running nicely.....

Who out there has had this issue fixed and by whom?... Can any forum sponsors shed some light on this issue please...

Please help if you can... appreciate it..

Cheers
Phil

What sort of oil is in it mate? Might be time to try a different viscosity oil. Probably won't get rid of it all but might get it to a reasonable level.

[HEXEM]

What sort of oil is in it mate? Might be time to try a different viscosity oil. Probably won't get rid of it all but might get it to a reasonable level.

Its running Fuchs 10w30 (non synthetic). I have been advised to run Penrite HPR10 (10w50) not because of the noise but for greater protection... So I am considering it. But will need to wait for further advice from Holden before I make any changes. If they wont go any further with it (even though its under warranty) then I will fill it with different oil.

Phil

[SS317]

After I put a cam in my ss it got more tappet noise, I changed the oil from mobil 1 to Royal purple 10/40 and it's a lot better than it was.
Trying another oil mite help a bit with the noise, worth a try anyway

[DJSean]

Here are some latest videos for people to listen to.

Would changing oil grade and going from synthetic to multi-grade or mineral eliminate the issue? Or is it another bad batch of factory DOD lifters/cam?

Cold Start Knock :: 12032010.flv video by VE-SSV - Photobucket (http://s280.photobucket.com/albums/kk188/VE-SSV/Cold%20Start%20Knock/?action=view&current=12032010.flv)

Hi VE-SSV

I too have an SSV but without the knocking as intense as yours, I do however notice when its cold (after I've just started it) and drive off i can hear a tick tick ticking from the engine but by the time I'm out of the car park and the engine is a litle warmer it's gone. So I'm not sure I might have a similar issue but on a smaller scale? My car has only 26,900K's on it too.

However having listened to the video in the quote above around the 8 second mark after you've started the car you get a whine like mine, I'm more concerned what that is?

So listen to your video and at the 8 second mark you can hear a whine? Mine does the same and dissapears after a minute or so.

Does anyone know what it is? or what the engine is doing?

Cheers
Sean

[Wonky]

So listen to your video and at the 8 second mark you can hear a whine? Mine does the same and dissapears after a minute or so.

Does anyone know what it is? or what the engine is doing?

Typical VE alternator noise Sean - they all do it.

[HEXEM]

Yep as Wonky said,

It's the characteristics of the alternator for the VE. I am not sure if all do it, however most of the people on this forum and cars I have seen at the dealers make the same noise. It's more noticable when the car is left sitting overnight or for long periods (several hours).

I was told nothing to worry about.

Cheers
Phil

[LGW]

Typical VE alternator noise Sean - they all do it.


Yep as Wonky said,

It's the characteristics of the alternator for the VE. I am not sure if all do it, however most of the people on this forum and cars I have seen at the dealers make the same noise. It's more noticable when the car is left sitting overnight or for long periods (several hours).

I was told nothing to worry about.

Cheers
Phil

Ahhh I have the whining sound too...I was going to ask the same question :).

I have also noticed a tapping noise but mine does it mostly when the engine is warm! I'll get a vid of it this weekend and post it up to see what you guys think. I'm taking it in for a service next week so hopefully I can go in and sound like I know what I'm talking about lol.

:rofl:

BTW how many posts do I need to post a vid up? I don't spam and only post when I genuinely have something to say so I'm only up to 17 posts lol!

:hide:

[HEXEM]

BTW how many posts do I need to post a vid up? I don't spam and only post when I genuinely have something to say so I'm only up to 17 posts lol!

:hide:

You cant post the video, but you can post a link to it. I use photobucket to host the video and just link it in my post here... If you know what I mean.

[Wonky]

how many posts do I need to post a vid up? I don't spam and only post when I genuinely have something to say so I'm only up to 17 posts lol!

:hide:

You need 20 to post links to pics/videos etc, so you're close. If you want, put the link up without the http://www. part and that should get through the parser OK so someone else can link to it for you.

[HEXEM]

I thought I'd do an update on my issues.

It was looked at by Holden this today and they have said its piston slap. Finally they are ordering a complete new create motor. :goodjob:

I only hope my new motor isn't a Friday or Monday built. :1peek:

[Space Pope]

Good stuff....Seems to me half the time that Holden is better off just throwing in a new engine for repeat offenders. Not like they're blindly expensive these days.

All the money and time wasted ...makes sense sometimes.

Must admit that the amount of complaints have been far less these days that those of the LS1 days.

[HEXEM]

too right. There comes a point where you start throwing good money after bad. But overall the experiance, while time consuming etc and frustrating, has been pleasant. Everyone has worked towards a satisfactory solution I think.

Hopefully I get a good motor (Quiet one) :) Now just have to see whether there is one available in Aust for me and if not they said they will need to order it from the US. Fingers are crossed theres one available.

[Steele304VS]

My L76 makes the EXACT same sound. its starting to frustrate me. the only problem is its so intermittent with mine i will look like a stooge if i took it to the mechanic.:bawl:

[swifty2happy]

Hi Hexem,

I live in canberra too and look to have the same problem as your car with startup, would you be able to give me a reply as iv got my car booked into holden at commonwealth motors holden.

I dont want to go through the heart ache that everyone else has.

Cheers

Justin Gilmore

[HEXEM]

Hi Justin,

I've sent you a PM mate..

Cheers
Phil

[mcsquirt]

I find I get the "rattling" problem with some oil filters...

If the Anti-drainback flap in the filter isn't sealing properly you will get oil draining back out of the block..more likely if the car sits for a long while. (Overnight ---> Several Days)

If that drainback happens you will hear the timing chain rattle for a few seconds on startup until the chain tensioner gets some Oil pressure behind it and then its all quiet again.

The higher the mileage the more likely you are to get this issue. (Timing Chain getting worn / more clearance on bearings)

I'm using genuine holden filters and the Ryco Z160's and slightly more frequent Oil changes (every 5k)....