Pacemaker try ys or 4 into 1 headers

[jdonly1@wideban]

Ok guys,whats the best way to go.This will be on a WH Statesman.
There is about $100 dollars differnce,the 4 into 1s being the dearer of the two.
The car is a daily driver at the moment,looking for increased power and better fuel economy.Once this is done I will get a mail order tune also.
If this was your car which header type would you choose???

[LS1Grange]

I am looking at this upgrade at the moment too.

I am under the impression that for the gen3/ls1 the tri y's 1 5/8" headers would be better for everyday sort of use. has more effect lower down in the rev range where as the 4-1's are more top end.

If your car is only seeing the street 1 5/8" tri y's will do the trick. That's what I'll be doing anyway. With some 3" in-out metal substrate cats(200cpi) and 2.5" dual cat back.

I have the cat back on already with a mail order maffless tune. The tune will really benefit from the headers and better high flow cats.

[BOOGER]

If you're gonna go the 1 5/8 Tri-y and 2.5 cat back I think you'll find that all you're going to need are the 2.5 cats. The opening on those headers are 2.5 as is the cat back (depending on the cat back used of cause).

The system you're talking about is almost exactly the same as I'm about to have fitted, I've got Pacemaker 1 5/8 Tri-y, 2.5 metal substrate cats and sureflo 3.5 cat back. The opening on the cat back is actually 2.5 from what I was told the last time I was at Sureflo.

[berroca]

go for the 1 3/4 4 into 1's
fine for daily drivers will love the mail order tune and you love the sound :)
these have a 3" collector on them so better to go with 3"cats then whatever cat back system you like

peace
Brock

[*VYSuper6*]

good info on the sureflo website about the differences in header configuration..


There are 3 main types of extractors:

1. Headers: 4 short pipes finishing in a collector.
These are better than cast manifolds as the pipes are longer and offer better flow. They do not hold as much heat as the cast manifolds, which helps to keep under bonnet temperatures down. Block Huggers are a typical example of this type. Headers are often fitted during production of many new cars as they are easy to fit and offer better performance than cast manifolds.
The disadvantages are: unequal tube lengths, and very restrictive - especially in the collector.

2. Tri-Y, or interference: This design consists of 4 pipes collecting into 2, then collecting into 1 pipe. This types gives good power gains and very good torque in the low to mid range. This means plenty of "off the line" power as well as overtaking power. This type is particularly suited to street cars where acceleration is important.

3. Tuned Length, or 4 into 1: As described this type consists of 4 long pipes usually 32" to 36" long collected into 1 pipe. Good sets are also collected in firing order which creates an exhaust pulse which helps the scavenging effect. These pipes offer superior top end power and are suited to highly modified engines and cars fitted with superchargers. The bigger the diameter of the pipe and the shorter the pipe the better it is for top end figures and high revving power. Smaller diameter pipes with longer length primaries bring the usable power in down low. With Gen 3 Commodores there are Short 4 into 1 Extractors as well as Long 4 into 1 Extractors. The long 4 into 1 extractors are already available in 1½", 1 5/8" and 1¾" pipe sizes and soon 1 7/8" will be available. So if you own a Gen 3 Commodore, no matter what modifications you have and where you want your power, there will be a set to suit your car.
One disadvantage is that the bundle of 4 pipes comes close to things that don't like heat and hang low on some vehicles. XW-XY Ford's are prone to scaping the bottom of the extractors on speed humps.
We supply and fit all brands of extractors: Genie, Pacemaker, Hi-Tech, Advance, Wildcat, Motorvator, Hurricane & Boss.
We also custom make extractors and Turbo Manifolds when the need arises. HPC (Ceramic Coating) cuts the under bonnet temperatures by half, stops the pipes from rusting and cuts down on friction.

The choice of extractors is influenced by: quality, performance, fitment, appearance, warranty and budget.

So which one suits your application and budget?
Mandrel Bent ? Press Bent ? or a combination of both ?

Heat proof paint ? Zinc Passivate ? or High Performance Coating ?

Mild Steel or Stainless Steel ?



hope that helps

[TUFFIE]

I have had the try y's on for a few years now and for a daily driver works really well. The midrange is awsome and that is what you use on a daily basis.. I too have a sureflow 3.5 with metal 2.5 inch metal cats.. No problem with making power either....
But if you are considering a cam etc in the future then consider the 4-1

[BLACK 346]

Ok guys,whats the best way to go.This will be on a WH Statesman.
There is about $100 dollars differnce,the 4 into 1s being the dearer of the two.
The car is a daily driver at the moment,looking for increased power and better fuel economy.Once this is done I will get a mail order tune also.
If this was your car which header type would you choose???

I went from 1 5/8 Tri-y to 1 3/4 4-1 and the improvement in note
was enough for me to justify the cost.

[jdonly1@wideban]

Thanks for the input guys:bow::bow:

[macca33]

With Statos, Caprice and Granges, you have to watch what you can put on. As far as I'm aware, only DiFilippo 4-1s in longtube style extractors will fit them, due to steering racks. Short 4-1s and Pacey Tri-ys fit too.

So, when considering what to get, you have to ensure you choose a type that will fit.

My preference has been D/F 1.3/4 4-1s and they have done very well for me, from bolt-on only (untuned), up to head/cam.

Cheers,

Macca

[berroca]

With Statos, Caprice and Granges, you have to watch what you can put on. As far as I'm aware, only DiFilippo 4-1s in longtube style extractors will fit them, due to steering racks. Short 4-1s and Pacey Tri-ys fit too.

So, when considering what to get, you have to ensure you choose a type that will fit.

My preference has been D/F 1.3/4 4-1s and they have done very well for me, from bolt-on only (untuned), up to head/cam.

Cheers,

Macca


the 1 3/4 tuned length paccies fit the stato no worries
mates has them on his wk

[macca33]

the 1 3/4 tuned length paccies fit the stato no worries
mates has them on his wk
Fair enough, I have always gone by the Pacey website for recomendations, as reproduced here:-

PH 5361 - COMMODORE | VT-VX-VU-VY-VZ - MONARO
5.7 Litre Gen3 | 6 Litre LS2 | Manual & Automatic
TUNED Design

P/Steering: Yes
Gasket: DSF 138
Air Con: Yes

Primary Pipe: 1 ¾" (44mm)

Oxy Sen:Yes

Secondary Pipe:
E.G.R: N/A
Outlet (flanged): 3" (76mm)
Y Branch: N/A

Fitting Time: 3 Hrs

Note: Designed for modified engines and supercharged apps.

VY Series II and VZ require Oxy Sensor Wiring Loom Extensions.
VY Series II Extensions; Part No PEX5367Y x 2.
VZ 5.7Ltr Extensions; Part No PEX5367Z x 2.
VZ 6Ltr LS2 Extensions; Part No PEX5367Y x 2 & PEX5367Z x 2.
Will not fit Calais and Caprice Statesman; Refer PH5367.

from Pacemaker website on-line catalogue.

Perhaps they have modified the pipes to fit his car. If so, then it opens up another 4-1 option. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Macca

[berroca]

Fair enough, I have always gone by the Pacey website for recomendations, as reproduced here:-

PH 5361 - COMMODORE | VT-VX-VU-VY-VZ - MONARO
5.7 Litre Gen3 | 6 Litre LS2 | Manual & Automatic
TUNED Design

P/Steering: Yes
Gasket: DSF 138
Air Con: Yes

Primary Pipe: 1 ¾" (44mm)

Oxy Sen:Yes

Secondary Pipe:
E.G.R: N/A
Outlet (flanged): 3" (76mm)
Y Branch: N/A

Fitting Time: 3 Hrs

Note: Designed for modified engines and supercharged apps.

VY Series II and VZ require Oxy Sensor Wiring Loom Extensions.
VY Series II Extensions; Part No PEX5367Y x 2.
VZ 5.7Ltr Extensions; Part No PEX5367Z x 2.
VZ 6Ltr LS2 Extensions; Part No PEX5367Y x 2 & PEX5367Z x 2.
Will not fit Calais and Caprice Statesman; Refer PH5367.

from Pacemaker website on-line catalogue.

Perhaps they have modified the pipes to fit his car. If so, then it opens up another 4-1 option. :thumbsup:

Cheers,

Macca

yea no shit?? never noticved that on there
must have been slightly modified then, cos another mate has them on his calais as well lol

4 into 1's are the go :D

[ADAM 26]

I just had heads and cam fitted to my vx, it already had pacemacker try-y`s, metal cats and 3.5 inch sure flo, i kept them on for the tune and made just over 300rwkw. so it doesnt seem to be lacking power up top. i wont be changing them any time soon, they seem to do the job, make a heap of power and dont scrape every speed bump in town!

[coolrunnings]

I just had heads and cam fitted to my vx, it already had pacemacker try-y`s, metal cats and 3.5 inch sure flo, i kept them on for the tune and made just over 300rwkw. so it doesnt seem to be lacking power up top. i wont be changing them any time soon, they seem to do the job, make a heap of power and dont scrape every speed bump in town!

Questions for MACCA:-

I have a 01 VX Senator (silver) A4, what brand headers will fit the Senator, being having the speed sensitive steering box? What exhaust will give a deeper V8 rumble? No need to go louder.
My exhaust is stock HSV headers (worth keeping?) with twin exhaust system. I think it's twin 2.25 up to oval mufflers in centre then twin 2.5 to rear oval muffler, then twin 2.5 outlets. Cats are removed (legal in NZ) and replaced with 2 10" hotdogs. Have also K&N panel filter with 4" maf pipe. Will get edit soon and be happy around 280-300kw with 520-540nm.

ps. I gave up a VX SS, M6, 3.91 diff, HD clutch, K&N panel, 4" GTS MAF. Regret losing the manaul but made up in getting the infamous Senator even though in auto...! Yours look pretty cool.

Thanks

[RB30X]

Just revisiting an old thread on a busy night shift at work.....

I've got an LS1/A4 in a VX Clubby (daily driver) and I'm not out to make big numbers or anything as I already have a toy car for that. The Clubby has a factory HSV system at the moment but I will soon be getting a brand name cat back (possibly a 3.5" sureflo). My question is, I picked up a set of 4>1 Pacemaker extractors. They are the long type with the 1 5/8 primaries. These would be the better of the 4>1's for my requirements but I'm still under the impression that I will lose some torque down low. This auto car spends most of its time from 1500-3000rpm. It has a mafless tune and the only other mods will be 100cpi cats when the extractors go on.

Would I be better off trading these 4>1's for a set of tri-y's or would the difference be minimal?

Does anyone have a set of tri-y's that they would like to swap for a set of 4>1's??

I would appreciate any input.
cheers

[RB30X]

These are the long 4>1's. They have a four bolt cat flange.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b26/RB30X/photo-1.jpg

[Mikey]

Just revisiting an old thread on a busy night shift at work.....

I've got an LS1/A4 in a VX Clubby (daily driver) and I'm not out to make big numbers or anything as I already have a toy car for that. The Clubby has a factory HSV system at the moment but I will soon be getting a brand name cat back (possibly a 3.5" sureflo). My question is, I picked up a set of 4>1 Pacemaker extractors. They are the long type with the 1 5/8 primaries. These would be the better of the 4>1's for my requirements but I'm still under the impression that I will lose some torque down low. This auto car spends most of its time from 1500-3000rpm. It has a mafless tune and the only other mods will be 100cpi cats when the extractors go on.

Would I be better off trading these 4>1's for a set of tri-y's or would the difference be minimal?

Does anyone have a set of tri-y's that they would like to swap for a set of 4>1's??

I would appreciate any input.
cheersNo you should be fine. The 1 5/8" header was developed for standard engines that-
a) people did not want to or could not afford to tune their car and-
b) because some people just have a preference for 4 into 1 style headers for some reason.

The smaller pipes normally return power much lower in the rev range at the expense of top end performance and offer better under bonnet clearances similar to tri-Y's. These are more suited to standard unopened daily drives imho.

Cheers Mikey

[Solone]

What do the quicker 5.7s use?

Does the 4-1s have the runs on the board or are the try-ys equally producing results

[RB30X]

What do the quicker 5.7s use?

Does the 4-1s have the runs on the board or are the try-ys equally producing results

When you say 'quicker' I assume you mean drag (or cicruit) racing in which case you spend all of the time in the upper rpm, so 4>1's would be best. I'm sure they're are people that had tri-y's initially as it suited their requirements, but then they kept installing power adders and eventually changed to 4>1's as their next mods to chase power. But then I'm sure there are people making good numbers that have left the tri-y's on.

Those headers in the pic above are actually 1 3/4" (44mm) primaries and have a 3" four bolt flange so I guess they might actually be too big for me to build a low rpm torquey auto 5.7L. I've been trying to find pics of pacemakers similar to those but Pacemaker dont have pics of their different styles on their site. Most pics of 4>1's seem to have two step downs in height, one possibly to clear the steering rack, then another step to meet the cat flange. These ones dont have that so I dont know if they are an older model or something. They were off a VZ ute so I dont know if that makes a difference?

[Mikey]

Most pics of 4>1's seem to have two step downs in height, one possibly to clear the steering rack, then another step to meet the cat flange. These ones dont have that so I dont know if they are an older model or something. They were off a VZ ute so I dont know if that makes a difference?Yeh I think you are right, but I think they are the original style 1 5/8" 4 into 1's. They used to channel the full 4 pipes past the steering and chassis rails. This was why they did not suit the "speed sensitive" (right terminology???) power steering found in Calais and Statesman. The 1 5/8" headers of today now share the same path through the engine bay as the 1 3/4" headers pictured above, i.e. the no 1 pipe is rerouted along the inside of the steering position.

Cheers Mikey