FPV F6 Performance Figures . Does HSV/Holden have to worry?

[Carby]

I dont think its pointless.

He is comparing 2 similar cars that are aimed at the same market (up market performance cars).

You are comparing a middle level performance car to the uplevel ones.

5k though is sweet FA in the scheme of things and when your buying a new car, its rare to purchase it at the RRP.

$5K SFA? You're joking arn't you?

What is pointless is you mentioning it is rare to purchase at RRP, may be, but again there has to be a common ground starting point and RRP's are it when looking at the $$'s for a new purchase.

[Alex(AUS)]

$5K SFA? You're joking arn't you?

What is pointless is you mentioning it is rare to purchase at RRP, may be, but again there has to be a common ground starting point and RRP's are it when looking at the $$'s for a new purchase.

THE DIFFERENCE IS ACTUALLY MORE THAN $7000! The only reason it is just over $5000 in the magasine is because the R8 is optioned with leather. F6 does not come with leather standard! When you factor that in it is more than $7000 and you still get smaller brakes! You dont get wider rear tyres, unique diff ratios, a unique engine, led lights, projector headlamps, 11 speaker stereo, short overhangs, wider track, longer wheelbase ... etc etc ... performance is the same ...

The price difference will only get worse (for F6) in July when the increased tax comes into play ...

Alex

[Carby]

Go the R8!

I always thought it suspicious that everytime they tested a a FPV it just seemed to have the optional Brembo premium brake package - I'm sure that FPV tell the magazines it is all they have available when it comes to testing time.............

[Holden Man]

GT is equivalent to R8 ... GTP = GTS ...

Good point . . . I forgot about the GTP.

It'd be good to see what advantage (if any) the GTS has over the Clubby. Maybe add the SS in there aswell just to see those extra dollars were not wasted!

[Alex(AUS)]

Good point . . . I forgot about the GTP.

It'd be good to see what advantage (if any) the GTS has over the Clubby. Maybe add the SS in there aswell just to see those extra dollars were not wasted!

LS2 GTS (MRC) ran 1:42.0 around Winton. Trust me no dollars were wasted; SS is a few seconds behind ...

Alex

[CarlFST60L]

LS2 GTS (MRC) ran 1:42.0 around Winton.

Alex

Are there any comparisons with GTS / R8 same track same driver (And all other things equal, same age, same tyre wear etc)?

[Alex(AUS)]

Are there any comparisons with GTS / R8 same track same driver (And all other things equal, same age, same tyre wear etc)?

No ... there once was an auto vs. manual comparison that was close ... but no same box comparos. I dont think it will be a huge difference. But MRC does help with stuff like anti-dive / power down and independent control of the dampers based on conditions. The 1:42 is so far the fastest time out of any Aussie sedan by a fair way ... I actually remember an early comparison where the GTS was only 0.7s behind the 500hp BMW M5!!!

Alex

[hsvLS1255]

what about the in gear accelleration.

while i havent got the magazines i do recall flicking through i think it was wheels and they said the typhoons 80-120km sprint was i think 2.6 or 2.7 sec.... thats crazy fast isnt it.

what are the 80-120km /h for the hsv ls3 and also the ford GT . anyone have these handy??

[Alex(AUS)]

what about the in gear accelleration.

while i havent got the magazines i do recall flicking through i think it was wheels and they said the typhoons 80-120km sprint was i think 2.6 or 2.7 sec.... thats crazy fast isnt it.

what are the 80-120km /h for the hsv ls3 and also the ford GT . anyone have these handy??

F6 - 2.8 and R8 - 3.0 (both in 3rd)

BTW Carl just LOOOOVES in gear comparisons; particularly those that start in 8th gear at 10km/h ...

Alex

[CarlFST60L]

F6 - 2.8 and R8 - 3.0 (both in 3rd)

BTW Carl just LOOOOVES in gear comparisons; particularly those that start in 8th gear at 10km/h ...

Alex

Oh yay, lets go over rolling on in the wrong gear again :rofl:

[SV346]

Holdens are always quicker, its the badge that makes the horsepower :smilesandbanana:

[GODSMACK]

Holdens are always quicker, its the badge that makes the horsepower :smilesandbanana: Even out in the wild, Lions are really really really fast runners, when there not sleeping that is....

[Dacious]

Ever thought it might be something as simplistic as an under-tyred setup?

So we're back to:


Then it appears the chassis may not be able put the power down - whcih it should after ten or so years development. Not much point in having the power if you can't effectively use it.

If Ford doesn't set the car up to use the extra power that $20K will buy it seems a little pointless spending the money - or is that just me? Why would they not, if it's something so simple, and considering they just re-engineered the whole car, just put bigger wheels and tyres on?

Maybe it might be sticking bigger rubber on doesn't improve things and they already tried it....

It might be like putting bigger gumboots in the hope they'll help you push an overloaded wheelbarrow!:jester:

[Campaign]

Prodrive have become somewhat known for being pennywise. They didn't approve any new wheel designs for the FG series FPVs so I'd say that they probably wanted 20" rims at 275 but Prodrive simply said it aint in our budget. Tough.

To me I really like the look of the FG F6 but it has been cheapened in my view by having carryover rims. New car new rims, simple enough..

HSV would never.. never release a brand new car with an old cars set of rims.

[mitchtj]

F6 - 2.8 and R8 - 3.0 (both in 3rd)

BTW Carl just LOOOOVES in gear comparisons; particularly those that start in 8th gear at 10km/h ...

Alex

lets compare a engine with a peak torque at 1900rpm to one with peak torque at 4000rpm in 6th gear.

Awesome.

Ford was really at the very limit of its overdraft with the FG, its obvious with stuff like the wheel choices.

I mean, for most people, the fact that the GTS has those superb 20" wheels, makes it worth the 10 grand premium over the clubsport. Thats all they care about, they see the value there.

These cars are at the point now were they are so powerful, most of the population would never even exploit the limits of the throttle, let alone the handling.

[Alex(AUS)]

Prodrive have become somewhat known for being pennywise. They didn't approve any new wheel designs for the FG series FPVs so I'd say that they probably wanted 20" rims at 275 but Prodrive simply said it aint in our budget. Tough.

To me I really like the look of the FG F6 but it has been cheapened in my view by having carryover rims. New car new rims, simple enough..

HSV would never.. never release a brand new car with an old cars set of rims.

Let not even mention that the competition (HSV) 2 years prior! released a car with a unique rear end, leds, MRC and for the first time introduced sheet metal changes etc ... Senator also has a unique body kit ...

To counter this FPV took two years to retain the same wheels/brakes/suspension/seats and wound the boost up + charged $7000 more than an R8 ...

Alex

[Ghosn]

HSV would never.. never release a brand new car with an old cars set of rims.

You mean like the VY R8 wheels that were previously used on the VX GTS? I can name more if you like? :)

[Alex(AUS)]

You mean like the VY R8 wheels that were previously used on the VX GTS? I can name more if you like? :)

Oh come on ... that was a minor sheet metal update not a totally new model ... like what we "should" have seen between BA and BF ...

On one hand we are classifying FG as a totally new model but at the same time it is ok to treat the wheels as a minor BF update ...

Alex

[goofafidamedes]

You mean like the VY R8 wheels that were previously used on the VX GTS? I can name more if you like? :)

And let's not forget the various Clubsport/Monaro rims either.

And the SV6000 wearing painted versions of the VY GTS Rims.

And the Clubsport-R and HSVDT/HRT Editions using the surplus of VY R8/VY II Clubsport rims...

[Alex(AUS)]

And let's not forget the various Clubsport/Monaro rims either.

And the SV6000 wearing painted versions of the VY GTS Rims.

And the Clubsport-R and HSVDT/HRT Editions using the surplus of VY R8/VY II Clubsport rims...

Hold on, that is all the same car mate. The dark BA/BF/FG F6 wheels are just painted BA GT wheels ... the special edition Cobra wears painted BF wheels ... thats all cool when it comes to the same shape ... but when you have a "new" car .... and what about the brakes, seats etc??? all same ...

You know, this may have all been ok if HSV hadnt done so much with the VE ... where is the competition???

For ford fans who were patiently waiting for 2 years after VE to get something more in FG and got MUCH less (for $7000 extra) it is spit in the face ...

Alex

[Knight Phlier]

Hold on, that is all the same car mate. The dark BA/BF/FG F6 wheels are just painted BA GT wheels ... the special edition Cobra wears painted BF wheels ... thats all cool when it comes to the same shape ... but when you have a "new" car .... and what about the brakes, seats etc??? all same ...

You know, this may have all been ok if HSV hadnt done so much with the VE ... where is the competition???

For ford fans who were patiently waiting for 2 years after VE to get something more in FG and got MUCH less (for $7000 extra) it is spit in the face ...

Alex

Alex how much did the VE series drop the price on say the base model Berlina in VZ i think was about 5 grand more than the base Berlina in VE. So it is probably not so much HSV that have been able to add the value here but that Holden had dropped the price on the donor Holden car? . It is interesting when you compare it like you have that the FG is more expensive given the options.

[Freaky]

For ford fans who were patiently waiting for 2 years after VE to get something more in FG and got MUCH less (for $7000 extra) it is spit in the face ...

Alex, I totally agree. Hence why I wont consider an FPV to replace my existing one when my lease finishes.

This has been a hot topic on AFF. The overwhelming feeling is that FPV have missed the mark. There is not enough differentiation between the donor car, and within the FPV range itself.

The wheels issue is appalling, has been done to death now but its blatently embarrassing this happened. The backlash this has caused on the forums I don't think FPV may have expected or else they may have gone with new wheels.

They have missed the mark with innovation, I wont go into specifics now, but where is the additional value now compared to a G6ET or XR6T fro the premium they are charging ?

Ford did a good job with the base car, IMO FPV have not done enough to differentiate via budget restrictions and carryover items.

Even Rod Barrett stated we would see an engineering first for an Australian car. Many of us are still guessing as to what this is ?

[VYII_R8]

Even Rod Barrett stated we would see an engineering first for an Australian car. Many of us are still guessing as to what this is ?

Maybe he meant the trick launch control that is now offered on the manual turbos?

Hmm... but thats not just limited to FPVs....

[YMK]

Then it appears the chassis may not be able put the power down - whcih it should after ten or so years development. Not much point in having the power if you can't effectively use it. The power transmitted was enough to dispose of the HSV.


The same was true of the old semi-trailling arm chassis in the VT-VZ which might have lost out in ride compliance due to unsprung weight and geometry issues but certainly provided grip and effectively put the power down at the track; probably one reason Holdens kept whooping much gruntier and more powerful (on paper) BA/BFs in A-B comparisons. The V8's always been a lead-tipped arrow but even the straight six layout is far from ideal.These aren't purpose built track cars (the idea of testing the cars on the track is purely to determine how good they are at their limits... on a TRACK), and on the road the more compliant BA/BF was the better drive up to the days of the VZ (and now VE when compared to FG) the Fords were always better on the ROAD.


This is where you pay for that long nose and cast-iron motor way out front, with a lot of hardware perched high on top. You can add more power to the Holden to even up the score, but you can't reposition the CofG in the Falcon easily. Ford seem very reticent to actually publish any weight distribution figures.Well, you are right the VE does have a 50:50 weight distribution, and the FG doesn't. FYI Ford has published a 53:47. It appears no CofG needs to be repositioned anyway, as the F6 is quicker.


Many people in the Ford camp have also commented the double-wshbone AU type IRS setup is superior to the Control Blade rear, which was originally developed for FWD cars like the Fiesta and Focus.So that makes the AU type IRS better than the VE's IRS. In all comparisons shown the VE does feel like it's a generation behind the FG, just like the BA was always a generation ahead of VZ. Keep your CofG!

[Alex(AUS)]

Alex how much did the VE series drop the price on say the base model Berlina in VZ i think was about 5 grand more than the base Berlina in VE. So it is probably not so much HSV that have been able to add the value here but that Holden had dropped the price on the donor Holden car? . It is interesting when you compare it like you have that the FG is more expensive given the options.

I dont think there was any real addition of value by Holden above and beyond a typical new model just a name reshuffle. Acclaim became Berlina, Berlina became Calais, Calais became Calais V, SV8 became SS and SS became SSV ... at first it looked like you got more for less but really all that happened is that the changed the names and you got more (for roughly the same money) which actually happens with every new model ... so it really didnt cost any less ...

Its where HSV spent money that counts in my book. Even though everything is not 100% they tried and put their cash down with many new ideas. It is certainly what FPV should have done also ... you know it really doesnt matter if FPV did the same it just matters that they did something. I call it the "bullshit" factor. How great would it have been if FPV did shift padles or heads up display or remote start or a new front end (totally different lights) or something ... HSV did alot of new things and FPV should have done the same or different but to the same extent.


Alex, I totally agree. Hence why I wont consider an FPV to replace my existing one when my lease finishes.

This has been a hot topic on AFF. The overwhelming feeling is that FPV have missed the mark. There is not enough differentiation between the donor car, and within the FPV range itself.

The wheels issue is appalling, has been done to death now but its blatently embarrassing this happened. The backlash this has caused on the forums I don't think FPV may have expected or else they may have gone with new wheels.

They have missed the mark with innovation, I wont go into specifics now, but where is the additional value now compared to a G6ET or XR6T fro the premium they are charging ?

Ford did a good job with the base car, IMO FPV have not done enough to differentiate via budget restrictions and carryover items.

Even Rod Barrett stated we would see an engineering first for an Australian car. Many of us are still guessing as to what this is ?

FPV had the best opportunity EVER to take a crack at HSV. The Turbo6 and ZF are fantastic and performing VERY well. All they needed was an all round package that did just as much (or more) than HSV for the same money and they had it made ... I am telling you I would have bought one simply because I could not argue with the proposition ... but what they have done makes it easy to argue against. You simply cannot deliver much less and sell it for much more ...

And you know what the worst thing of all is ... after all that waiting for the new FG and its time in the limelight ... VF is around the corner with (so I am told) quite significant updates ...

Alex

[payaya]

Damn your one eyed Alex. You talk the F6 down like its a dud, even when its raved at being better than everything in its class.

[Dacious]

The power transmitted was enough to dispose of the HSV.

These aren't purpose built track cars (the idea of testing the cars on the track is purely to determine how good they are at their limits... on a TRACK), and on the road the more compliant BA/BF was the better drive up to the days of the VZ (and now VE when compared to FG) the Fords were always better on the ROAD.

Well, you are right the VE does have a 50:50 weight distribution, and the FG doesn't. FYI Ford has published a 53:47. It appears no CofG needs to be repositioned anyway, as the F6 is quicker.

So that makes the AU type IRS better than the VE's IRS. In all comparisons shown the VE does feel like it's a generation behind the FG, just like the BA was always a generation ahead of VZ. Keep your CofG!

Err, actually no. Drive's SS-V vs XR6T Vs XR8 comparo gave the nod to the SS-V for overall composure. In fact despite the XR6T being (marginally) quicker and using less fuel they gave a split decision, saying the SS held it's own overall and handled and rode more securely. That surprised me as they've been leading the FG cheersquad. And one of the other compars, while liking the G6ET and giving it the overall nod still said they'd rather drive distances in the Calais.

And possibly the AU full double wishbone rear suspension is ahead as you'd expect of suspension design that comes on racing cars - pity it weighed a tonne and took up so much space under the car in it's full cage. And of course pity it was on AU.

I'm sure when the Huntsman iteration is released the Ford will suddenly become far more nimble with the V6 buried up under the dash - and people with the inline six will suddenly start reading roadtests about the steering and handling foibles of their cars - like we are now reading about BA and BF.

[Alex(AUS)]

Damn your one eyed Alex. You talk the F6 down like its a dud, even when its raved at being better than everything in its class.

I did say it has an exceptional engine and gearbox and have always liked the T6 (I say that often). But how do you define "better" and "class"?

As a performance car it is quite similar to the R8 (both in a straight line and on the track). Afterall, I cannot envisage a better way to test a performance car than to have it lap a circuit; It shows how good its traction, braking, acceleration, balance and cornering etc is in one test ... I just cant understand how a car that accelerates better and has better handling can lap the same as a car that accelerates slower and has worse handling. We all acknowledge that the F6 has a greater spread of power/torque therefore, it is quite obvious that it cannot handle/brake/corner etc as well as the R8. Overall, performance car wise, the R8 is just as good as the F6. But the F6 has less features for $7000 more ... if anything is true, it is that the R8 punches above its class and matches a car that is $7000 more expensive in "performance" and exceeds it in features ...

As I said, FPV had to opportunity to do something real special and they blew it hardcore ...

Alex

[mitchtj]

The performance is obvious, but the thing that matters to alot of people is subjective

- The v8's Holdens actually sound like a v8, yes you can get a v8 FPV, but you give a huge hit in performance away with it. The turbo may be slightly quicker, but it will never have that off throttle v8 sound.
- Styling. The #1 thing that people buy a car for. Most drivers will never notice the difference between the ZF and the Holden 6 speed auto, but everytime they look at the car, they will know the FPV looks like a confused mondeo. With eyeliner on.

[payaya]

Err, actually no. Drive's SS-V vs XR6T Vs XR8 comparo gave the nod to the SS-V for overall composure. In fact despite the XR6T being (marginally) quicker and using less fuel they gave a split decision, saying the SS held it's own overall and handled and rode more securely. That surprised me as they've been leading the FG cheersquad. And one of the other compars, while liking the G6ET and giving it the overall nod still said they'd rather drive distances in the Calais.

And possibly the AU full double wishbone rear suspension is ahead as you'd expect of suspension design that comes on racing cars - pity it weighed a tonne and took up so much space under the car in it's full cage. And of course pity it was on AU.

I'm sure when the Huntsman iteration is released the Ford will suddenly become far more nimble with the V6 buried up under the dash - and people with the inline six will suddenly start reading roadtests about the steering and handling foibles of their cars - like we are now reading about BA and BF.

Verdict from drive:
"Verdict

Having been reacquainted with the Falcon XR8, we can see why Ford invested heavily in the XR6 Turbo all those years ago.

We suspect Ford knew the V8 wasn't going to cut it against the big V8s Holden had up its sleeve and so embarked on a turbo six-cylinder engine program. It was a bold but wise move as the XR6 Turbo is now the highlight of the Falcon range and has finally knocked off the king of Australian muscle cars for 12 years, the Commodore SS.

The XR6 Turbo is quicker, more fuel-efficient and is good to drive. And at $46,990 in six-speed auto guise it's a relative bargain. V8 fans will cling to the Commodore, which is no bad thing. But it can't match the XR6 Turbo for overall performance.

This version of the XR6 Turbo is only going to be around for another three years before it's replaced by a turbocharged V6 that's not likely to have as much grunt. It's a cliche we rarely use but this XR6 Turbo could well become a future classic."

When Wheels mag say:
"In fact I can only think of two AMG 6.2L V8 and the Porsche 2.6L twin turno flat six. FPV finests now produces 310kw however its the torque that realy does the business, with 565nm from 1950-5200.
Neither the blue nor the red corner has a V8 with this spead of grunt or as much of it. So the fave the F6 matched witht he ZF six speed auto in our test car beats both its familial and the generals b8 against the clock as no suprise."

There you go thats 7k worth.

[Torxteer]

I did say it has an exceptional engine and gearbox and have always liked the T6 (I say that often). But how do you define "better" and "class"?

As a performance car it is quite similar to the R8 (both in a straight line and on the track). Afterall, I cannot envisage a better way to test a performance car than to have it lap a circuit; It shows how good its traction, braking, acceleration, balance and cornering etc is in one test ... I just cant understand how a car that accelerates better and has better handling can lap the same as a car that accelerates slower and has worse handling. We all acknowledge that the F6 has a greater spread of power/torque therefore, it is quite obvious that it cannot handle/brake/corner etc as well as the R8. Overall, performance car wise, the R8 is just as good as the F6. But the F6 has less features for $7000 more ... if anything is true, it is that the R8 punches above its class and matches a car that is $7000 more expensive in "performance" and exceeds it in features ...

As I said, FPV had to opportunity to do something real special and they blew it hardcore ...

Alex

Where is this 7k more coming from? They sell for the same price.

The standard brakes are actually the same size as the premium setup just different calipers. Half of the extra features you mentioned earlier like different rear end, LED lights etc are just exterior which comes down to the buyers taste so is irrelevent. If your going to brag about stuff like that you may aswell join the rice brigade.

The cars are so close these days who really cares. Both the R8 and F6 are decent cars.

[mitchtj]

Verdict from drive:
"Verdict

Having been reacquainted with the Falcon XR8, we can see why Ford invested heavily in the XR6 Turbo all those years ago.

We suspect Ford knew the V8 wasn't going to cut it against the big V8s Holden had up its sleeve and so embarked on a turbo six-cylinder engine program. It was a bold but wise move as the XR6 Turbo is now the highlight of the Falcon range and has finally knocked off the king of Australian muscle cars for 12 years, the Commodore SS.

The XR6 Turbo is quicker, more fuel-efficient and is good to drive. And at $46,990 in six-speed auto guise it's a relative bargain. V8 fans will cling to the Commodore, which is no bad thing. But it can't match the XR6 Turbo for overall performance.

This version of the XR6 Turbo is only going to be around for another three years before it's replaced by a turbocharged V6 that's not likely to have as much grunt. It's a cliche we rarely use but this XR6 Turbo could well become a future classic."

When Wheels mag say:
"In fact I can only think of two AMG 6.2L V8 and the Porsche 2.6L twin turno flat six. FPV finests now produces 310kw however its the torque that realy does the business, with 565nm from 1950-5200.
Neither the blue nor the red corner has a V8 with this spead of grunt or as much of it. So the fave the F6 matched witht he ZF six speed auto in our test car beats both its familial and the generals b8 against the clock as no suprise."

There you go thats 7k worth.

this is motor, they run a car down a dragstrip and determine its time, how can they get over its looks is beyond me.

[fangq]

this is motor, they run a car down a dragstrip and determine its time, how can they get over its looks is beyond me.

I had the opportunity today to test the F6 ( black, 6 speed auto ZF ) , as well as the G6ET. We left from Pacific Ford at Maroochydore and cruised up to Boreen Point, with 6 stops on the way for driver swaps between vehicles.
( FPV day..a few cars to play with )

On the way home, I had the F6 to myself as we hooked across to the highway via Pomona. Believe me, the F6 is a serious bit of kit.
Quite a few of the other drivers are current FPV owners, and were stunned at the performance of the F6. Raves over the G6ET as well.

Funnily enough, human nature being what it is, the V8 guys will probably stay with the 8 and , the I6T guys, with the F6 variants.

All in all, a fun day. I'm now spoiled for choices

cheers
Steve

[clubbie]

I would just like to add that anyone whom drives Alice Cooper (thanks to Amac's mag) needs shooting.

Why? well the F6 maybe fast, nimble etc but f@ck is it ugly. It looks like it just lost a fight with a Clubbie :rofl: and has two black eyes.

FPV just tried to hard....

Clubbie

Personally I would like to see an F6 without the black eye's...I can see it being an option shortly.:rofl:

[Buf-Phoon]

Pretty sure your dealer can organise this already pre production. Who would be left with the black eyes then LOL

[payaya]

I did say it has an exceptional engine and gearbox and have always liked the T6 (I say that often). But how do you define "better" and "class"?

As a performance car it is quite similar to the R8 (both in a straight line and on the track). Afterall, I cannot envisage a better way to test a performance car than to have it lap a circuit; It shows how good its traction, braking, acceleration, balance and cornering etc is in one test ... I just cant understand how a car that accelerates better and has better handling can lap the same as a car that accelerates slower and has worse handling. We all acknowledge that the F6 has a greater spread of power/torque therefore, it is quite obvious that it cannot handle/brake/corner etc as well as the R8. Overall, performance car wise, the R8 is just as good as the F6. But the F6 has less features for $7000 more ... if anything is true, it is that the R8 punches above its class and matches a car that is $7000 more expensive in "performance" and exceeds it in features ...

As I said, FPV had to opportunity to do something real special and they blew it hardcore ...

Alex

So FPV being rated as the best of the best isnt good enough???

[CarlFST60L]

So FPV being rated as the best of the best isnt good enough???

By who? A few of Journo's?

If you really want people to bow down to its greatness over the VE range FF is a click away ;)

[Ghia351]

By who? A few of Journo's?

If you really want people to bow down to its greatness over the VE range FF is a click away ;)lol, who else is going to rate any car such that their opinions are in the public domain whether it be electronic or press media? Now everyone please note that I'm in a very sarcastic moment re the following comments, I hope the press rave wildly about my newly ordered G6ET otherwise I'm going to become very defensive in all my future postings and feel insecure :jester:....

[CarlFST60L]

lol, who else is going to rate any car such that their opinions are in the public domain whether it be electronic or press media?

My point was not "who else", but when Motor/Wheels become the benchmark/authority on what is the 'best of the best' between two very similar cars will be the day that I eat my own poo.

Yes, I feel like a 12 year old boy arguing at little lunch over which is better, Chicken Twisting or Cheese :lol: Would you believe a mag if it told you chicken was better than cheese? I know what I would do, eat both, if we dont agree I would move on... Or I could find an internet article saying one is better and proclaim you a wrong because my article said that Chicken is "The best of the best" :lol:

Im out, this argument is old, and stupid.

PS, good luck with your car, its a good time to buy with so many great cars around.

[Alex(AUS)]

So FPV being rated as the best of the best isnt good enough???

I think I laid out quite a good argument. And when there is nothing more to say you point to a blanket statement with no substance. Can you go over my statements and explain how the F6 is such a good proposition when you pay $7000 more for much less. Yes it performs well and maybe one of the best of class in that sense but what about the fact that you pay $7000 for less? What about the fact that for $7000 less the R8 is just as fast in a straight line and around the track (the best test of a performance car IMHO) and you get alot more?

Write some constructive argument here ... dont just say "someone said its good and therefore it must be" ...

Alex

[Penko]

I think I laid out quite a good argument. And when there is nothing more to say you point to a blanket statement with no substance. Can you go over my statements and explain how the F6 is such a good proposition when you pay $7000 more for much less. Yes it performs well and maybe one of the best of class in that sense but what about the fact that you pay $7000 for less? What about the fact that for $7000 less the R8 is just as fast in a straight line and around the track (the best test of a performance car IMHO) and you get alot more?

Write some constructive argument here ... dont just say "someone said its good and therefore it must be" ...

Alex

I think we all just have to agree that both cars a great, and i think that is what most people will agree on. Where else can you get two great cars that are 300+kw for under 80g's. What ever one someone picks, they have got a great buy.

For example take my purchase, a FG F6 is on order.

My previous cars =
Vt V8 Calais
Monaro CV8
VZ R8

So why the change in camps?

1) My lease is up and i need a car, but can't wait for the VE update. (I know people will flame me for this justification, but i would prefer the updated model)

2) I wanted to try something different, instead of a V8

3) I think the the F6 has great performance and is a gun engine

4) I just preferred the overall package more than the VE R8 (my opinion of course) no flaming required for this statement.

This will be my first Ford i have ever owned and i am extremely looking forward to it. But hey i might hate it for the 3 years of my lease and my next purchase will be a HSV again.

I believe this is a constructive argument, as it does not single out a product as worse than the other, but merely showing why my purchase has taken me down the Ford road. In my opinion both the F6 and the R8 share qualities, 6 to one and half a dozen to the other.

Cheers

[Ghia351]

Yes, I feel like a 12 year old boy arguing at little lunch over which is better, Chicken Twisting or Cheese :lol: Would you believe a mag if it told you chicken was better than cheese? I know what I would do, eat both, if we dont agree I would move on... Or I could find an internet article saying one is better and proclaim you a wrong because my article said that Chicken is "The best of the best" :lol:

Im out, this argument is old, and stupid.

PS, good luck with your car, its a good time to buy with so many great cars around.
Hang on there my good buddy, as a 12yo I enjoyed many a cheese twistie filled butterd bread roll for morning recess at high school (nearly 20years ago), followed by a wagon wheel, and not the puny undersized variety you find now.....chicken flavour was reserved for the packet of chips...as to the G6ET, my wife will have it 85% of the time..but I tell you what i'll volunteer to do the shopping in a suburb 30km away whenever I get the chance.

cheers
Ghia351.

[Vulture]

..but I tell you what i'll volunteer to do the shopping in a suburb 30km away whenever I get the chance.

Is that to minimise the chance of someone you know seeing you in the Ford? :jester:

[Ghia351]

Is that to minimise the chance of someone you know seeing you in the Ford? :jester:...well someone has to improve the value of the neighbouring suburbs...

[CarlFST60L]

i'll volunteer to do the shopping in a suburb 30km away whenever I get the chance.

cheers
Ghia351.

Let me know if you need a hand :smilesandbanana:

[BLACK 346]

Yes, I feel like a 12 year old boy arguing at little lunch over which is better, Chicken Twisting or Cheese

If you are going to use old chips in your examples at least get them
right Karl, Cheese or Chicken TWISTIES mate, not TWISTINGS :teach:

[CarlFST60L]

If you are going to use old chips in your examples at least get them
right Karl, Cheese or Chicken TWISTIES mate, not TWISTINGS :teach:

:lol: hopeless aren't I

[vecommo]

Hang on there my good buddy, as a 12yo I enjoyed many a cheese twistie filled butterd bread roll for morning recess at high school (nearly 20years ago)

Age:42

Looks like you didn't pay too much attention during your maths classes.:rofl:

[Ghia351]

Age:42

Looks like you didn't pay too much attention during your maths classes.:rofl:OK smarty pants, maybe I didn't get a double degree in typing but I do have them in chemistry and maths...:rolleyes:


Let me know if you need a hand :smilesandbanana:Thanks for the offer but I would have massive trouble explaining shopping over 1000km from home, lol...

[BadMac]

Age:42

Looks like you didn't pay too much attention during your maths classes.:rofl:

Not that I know what you guys are arguing about, but when I went to school 12+20 = 32 not 42!

[Ghia351]

Not that I know what you guys are arguing about, but when I went to school 12+20 = 32 not 42!I made a typo when stating I ate twistie rolls starting when I was 12 and now that I'm 42 that works out to be 30 years ago...I typed 20...boy that sounds like a long time ago...and I'm off the the bakery and milk bar...

[clubbie]

I made a typo when stating I ate twistie rolls starting when I was 12 and now that I'm 42 that works out to be 30 years ago...I typed 20...boy that sounds like a long time ago...and I'm off the the bakery and milk bar...

Mate the forum members on here are not calling you dumb or stupid or typical one eyed Ford supporter regarding your posts....well not directly anyways.

And if I say "only joking" that then means I am not serious... or :lmao: means it was a joke.....but I did not.:rofl:

Just kidding.

BTW look forward to pics of the G6ET when you get it.....nicest and most complete looking car in the Ford range. Something about euro look understated performance that appeals to me.

As I posted earlier the F6 with black eyes looks to try hard.....maybe it will grow on me...dunno.

Clubbie

Edit: I will wait till the production comparisons can be made and see where the performance is at.....can't believe the G6ET auto would be quicker than the F6
Cheap HP potential looks good.

[Ghia351]

Mate the forum members on here are not calling you dumb or stupid or typical one eyed Ford supporter regarding your posts....well not directly anyways.

And if I say "only joking" that then means I am not serious... or :lmao: means it was a joke.....but I did not.:rofl:

Just kidding..Sorry, I've got no idea what you're referring to....

[drif6]

I think I laid out quite a good argument. And when there is nothing more to say you point to a blanket statement with no substance. Can you go over my statements and explain how the F6 is such a good proposition when you pay $7000 more for much less. Yes it performs well and maybe one of the best of class in that sense but what about the fact that you pay $7000 for less? What about the fact that for $7000 less the R8 is just as fast in a straight line and around the track (the best test of a performance car IMHO) and you get alot more?

Write some constructive argument here ... dont just say "someone said its good and therefore it must be" ...

Alex
I don't think you've laid out a good argument at all Alex. I don't know where the $7000 R8 price advantage comes form. I assume you are comparing an optioned up F6 to a stock R8? Secondly, going by your logic, a vehicles performance around the race track should be the ultimate decision in terms of which car is better? Maybe we should all be driving 202 HQ race cars then. They will be quicker than both the F6 and the R8. What is your problem Alex? Are you regretting the purchase of your HSV and putting on a brave face? The F6 is an awesome car. It's got genuine Aussie engineering innovation and unique looks.

[Alex(AUS)]

I don't think you've laid out a good argument at all Alex. I don't know where the $7000 R8 price advantage comes form. I assume you are comparing an optioned up F6 to a stock R8? Secondly, going by your logic, a vehicles performance around the race track should be the ultimate decision in terms of which car is better? Maybe we should all be driving 202 HQ race cars then. They will be quicker than both the F6 and the R8. What is your problem Alex? Are you regretting the purchase of your HSV and putting on a brave face? The F6 is an awesome car. It's got genuine Aussie engineering innovation and unique looks.

If you bothered to read the thread you wouldnt need to ask that. The price difference is simply an F6 with optional premium brakes (which are smaller than the standard R8 units) and a standard R8 ... it is actually more than $7000. A simple comparison really. Above and beyond that the R8 has many many more features than the F6 ... further example of why you should buy the R8 based on your very own argument! The R8 has more (than an F6 and a HQ), performs the same and is more than $7000 cheaper (even when the F6 is optioned with the smaller brakes). You own argument maite ... a car with more features and equal performance for less (no HQ at all).

And, I am very happy with my purchase ... FPV has nothing to replace a Senator in all performance/luxury car aspects ...

Alex

[sh|tbmxrider]

Why is this thread still going?

[vecommo]

Why is this thread still going?

Exactly what I was thinking. This whole argument and the amount of times it keeps getting repeated is getting way beyond a joke.

To those concerned, if you love the F6 that much then go out and bloody buy one, rather than coming onto a Holden forum and (deliberately) rambling on about how it is the greatest performance car on earth and forcing people to respect and bow down to it.

Most people here are more than capable of forming their own opinions. If somebody has a negative opinion of the F6 then so be it.... I am sick to death of the ford fanboys who contribute absolutely nothing to this forum other than coming here to challenge and ridicule anybody who may dare to have a negative opinion of a Ford, while shoving their pro-Ford opinions in our faces.

[Swordie]

I welcome people challenging Holdens and debating their attributes. If someone gets out of line it’s to their own detriment.

[The_Guardian_01]

i'm actually disappointed with the figures from the F6 as well.... only a 40kw increase on the BF model line up? I know that these engines can cope with WAY more than that...
And the quarter times are ridiculously slow... I know NA xr6's pulling almost that times... and they have a mere 170rwkw...
310rwkw can do WAY better than they're stating...

[EASTWOOD]

310rwkw can do WAY better than they're stating...

310 at the crank mate,not the treads.

[The_Guardian_01]

Yeah I know that... miss print with the F6 explanation... talking too much in rwkw all the time you just get used to putting the rw in front when thinking of Power figures...
But still 310fwkw should produce better times than stated...

[Vulture]

i'm actually disappointed with the figures from the F6 as well.... only a 40kw increase on the BF model line up? I know that these engines can cope with WAY more than that...
And the quarter times are ridiculously slow... I know NA xr6's pulling almost that times... and they have a mere 170rwkw...
310rwkw can do WAY better than they're stating...

Geez, you're not easily impressed. 40kw is a pretty decent gain!

[EASTWOOD]

But still 310fwkw should produce better times than stated...

Well using your logic the r8's times should be better again,seen as it has 317fwkw's.

[VYII_R8]

Well using your logic the r8's times should be better again,seen as it has 317fwkw's.

Valid point.