ZB Commodore sales

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Originally Posted by Pickles

G'Day Smitty.
So, in view of your position as a National Fleet Manager, & consequently a multiple buyer of all sorts of cars,, and someone that has probably bought many VFs, I have a question for you! Which car makes/models would you say have been the major beneficiaries of the "unpopularity" of the current Commodore?
Pickles.

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Pickles
..back in to Mexico so catching up

the gain (from Holden Commodore sales losses) has gone in 3 areas imo...

SUV/truck.. everyone is aware that Colorado is keeping Holden going
and Expedia is doing ok against some stiff competition (Honda Nissan Mitsu small SUVs)

Astra is getting some decent interest and sales are slowly increasing but... again
Holden screwed it up, the Astra SEDAN is a piece of pox and sales reflect that.
Compare a hatch and a sedan .. and the build quality difference is obvious
inside and out. Holden should never have taken the sedan until the quality improved.
If they can better the sedan quality, then as long as they keep the price down (remember
the price debacle when Astra hatch was released?) then Astra will be ok
If not... well :(

and thirdly, Kia (Genesis and Optima) Hyundai Sonata and the Euros ...BMWs 2, 3 and 4 range
and MB A and Class, even VW (in Passat and Arteon) are getting showroom traffic they never
experienced before

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Originally Posted by Micks

That's the problem when "Bean Counters" Try to run companies!! :yup:

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.. as a bean counter (who once upon a time worked at GMH) I resemble that comment

the REAL problem in my opinion is GM do NOT know what to do with Holden

Support it with serious $ to grow it? naah (look at Opel and vauxhall)

Get rid of Holden (like Opel ) and replace the brand with Chevrolet?
naah kiss ALL the good will to Holden goodbye

Holden management has been too weak (except for Handlingberger but he was German)
to go to Detroit and say.. stop screwing Holden around. Shit model choice available
shit Australian market analysis in Detroit (Australia is NOT USA.. HSV better beware that)

By the end of 2018, Holden will have a small, medium and large SUV in their sales range
FIVE YEARS too late! The competition is killing Holden in this part of the market as other
brands have established reputations. Kia came along, nice product (compare a Sorento to a Captiva)
great price, fixed price services (before holden did it) and on introduction, FIVE YEAR
warranty increased to 7 years and from July 1 TEN YEARS!

The Commodore is gone .. and Holden can no longer trade on its reputation from that

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Originally Posted by Smitty

Astra is getting some decent interest and sales are slowly increasing but... again
Holden screwed it up, the Astra SEDAN is a piece of pox and sales reflect that.
Compare a hatch and a sedan .. and the build quality difference is obvious
inside and out. Holden should never have taken the sedan until the quality improved.
If they can better the sedan quality, then as long as they keep the price down (remember
the price debacle when Astra hatch was released?) then Astra will be ok
If not... well :(

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I recently drove a new astra hatch loan car whilst my wife's car was being serviced. Well put together and a ripper motor. Thats where the positives ended for me. I struggled to get comfortable and struggled to work out how everything worked and what buttons did what. Nothing felt natural.
On the other hand a week later i drove a new i30 loan car whilst my car was being serviced and instantly felt at home in it. All the controls felt instantly natural. I was able to get comfortable easily and despite being an NA 4cyl it drove really well.

If it were my money it would be on the i30 purely because everything felt natural and worked as i expected it.

This is what commodores use to be good at. You could buy the new model and instatly feel at home in one. They had a certain feel about them that you just dont get in any of Holdens current range.

I saw 2 more this afternoon, one was a white Calais V & I must say it was the best looking one I have seen so far. :goodjob:

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Originally Posted by csv rulz

I recently drove a new astra hatch loan car whilst my wife's car was being serviced. Well put together and a ripper motor. Thats where the positives ended for me. I struggled to get comfortable and struggled to work out how everything worked and what buttons did what. Nothing felt natural.
On the other hand a week later i drove a new i30 loan car whilst my car was being serviced and instantly felt at home in it. All the controls felt instantly natural. I was able to get comfortable easily and despite being an NA 4cyl it drove really well.

If it were my money it would be on the i30 purely because everything felt natural and worked as i expected it.

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We have both the Astra RS and i30 and couldn't disagree more. Mind you we live with them so have gotten used to everything, I'll always go for the Astra. Only real thing I don't like about the Astra is the front suspension is a bit soft. My 9 yr old son refers the ZB as the bigger Astra.

Yeah thats fair enough. I only had a day with each, so can only give my perspective based on that time. Im sure with time the car becomes familiar, however most buyers only take a 20 minute test drive before deciding what to buy.

My feeling familiar in the hyundai als has to do with the fact my daily is currently a hyundai

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Originally Posted by CLUBRED

We have both the Astra RS and i30 and couldn't disagree more. Mind you we live with them so have gotten used to everything, I'll always go for the Astra. Only real thing I don't like about the Astra is the front suspension is a bit soft. My 9 yr old son refers the ZB as the bigger Astra.

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Originally Posted by Red CV8 R

I've still only seen one ZB, a wagon, did not look good at all.

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Lol same thoughts - saw my first Black V Wagon on the road in front 1 day ago, initially thought it was a down sized Chintzy hearse for the dearly departed ..... it just had that "look" like the imports also do - Nissan Elgrand and Toyota Alphard top spec's vans in BLACK - these are used mainly by Japanese high ranking business men and the few Yakuza owners to stretch out comfortably in the centre recliner massage seats- locally Tobin brothers picks ups the bodies in dark vans.

Strange tastes indeed.

I reckon I've seen two, maybe three ZB's on the road since they were released.

I have to look twice to realise what they are because they look pretty much like everything else on the road these days (squashed turds as per Smitty's grandkids).

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Originally Posted by csv rulz

I recently drove a new astra hatch loan car whilst my wife's car was being serviced. Well put together and a ripper motor. Thats where the positives ended for me. I struggled to get comfortable and struggled to work out how everything worked and what buttons did what. Nothing felt natural.
On the other hand a week later i drove a new i30 loan car whilst my car was being serviced and instantly felt at home in it. All the controls felt instantly natural. I was able to get comfortable easily and despite being an NA 4cyl it drove really well.

If it were my money it would be on the i30 purely because everything felt natural and worked as i expected it.

This is what commodores use to be good at. You could buy the new model and instatly feel at home in one. They had a certain feel about them that you just dont get in any of Holdens current range.

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in those few words, is described exactly what is facing Holden (and GM)

who would have thought 5-10 years ago, anything out of Asia (Korea Thailand)
would be as good to drive as anything from Germany

The Holden's competition in the Australian market has improved.. dramatically
Yes, you can be pernicky about a feature or 2 of a Kia or Hyundai .. or Astra
but the reality is to Joe public, a Hyundai drives nicely, has good features
and is as good a value to own as any equivalent Holden

Holden have not done anything about this imo.... and naming ZB a Commodore
just illustrates how far from reality they are.

I am sure ZB sales would be much better if Holden had the balls to bring it into
the market and call it the 'new something'.. not a bloody Commodore replacement

Mark Berhard needs his arse kicked for ticking that off (no wonder dealers are angry)

http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/attachme...tid=5437&stc=1

Lets just take a moment to think about what this says......

You need (Holden needed) alot more.... than to just Solely rely on a name to sell a car.

That's completely what they were hedging their bets on, and Totally Missed the mark...

They put their feelers out, and didn't listen to the feed back they received, that the vast majority of people, didn't want it to be named commodore, as it resembles Completely Nothing of what the commodore was...

A RWD vehicle...

They got desperate... clearly shown by, letting the media test drive and take photo's of the Insigneedoor still in Camouflage inside and out, month's before the release...

What were they thinking, that such an idea was Smart Marketing Strategy, worst idea ever IMO...

I've Never seen any other Car Manufacturer, from anywhere around the world, let the media test drive and take photos of a prototype in/out still in Camouflage, and you never will again...


https://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/16...signia-2-1.jpg

https://s3.caradvice.com.au/thumb/16...Insignia-1.png

How can anyone think, that this... is a good look, to promote a New product line???...



I drive past a Holden dealership everyday on my commute to work, and the Main glass showroom which faces the street, there is Not One!!!...... Insigneedoor facing the street ( Prime Advertising Real Estate for the dealership on a busy road)...

So even the dealership... isn't trying to promote the product...

As I've said... It's a Dead Duck IMO...

From Feburary 2018...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CJRY6UdOgQ


Let's see how Dave Buttner can Steer The Ship... with Mark Bernhard being Ousted... when Buttner takes the Reins of GM Holden from 1 August 2018...

https://media.gm.com/content/Pages/n...1871793727.jpg

Time will tell...

Seen a couple more out & about today, they are certainly not the worst looking car that I have ever seen.

I honestly think that as others have said, GM would have done a lot better by not using the name Commodore on them though. :doh:

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Originally Posted by whitels1ss

Seen a couple more out & about today, they are certainly not the worst looking car that I have ever seen.

I honestly think that as others have said, GM would have done a lot better by not using the name Commodore on them though. :doh:

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I had a chance to have a good look at a VX-R last Saturday. I don't mind the styling both inside and out and the additional tech over the VF is impressive.

However, the interior felt noticeably smaller than my VF which would put me off being a big person.

I didn't drive it, but I will always think any car that has less power than mine is a disappointment. However, I do enjoy driving my wife's Mini JCW convertible, which asks to be driven hard, especially on twisty roads.

there's something about the rumble of a V8 (and finances) which means that the ZB will not be on my shopping list into the future.

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Originally Posted by Goggles

I had a chance to have a good look at a VX-R last Saturday. I don't mind the styling both inside and out and the additional tech over the VF is impressive.

However, the interior felt noticeably smaller than my VF which would put me off being a big person.

I didn't drive it, but I will always think any car that has less power than mine is a disappointment. However, I do enjoy driving my wife's Mini JCW convertible, which asks to be driven hard, especially on twisty roads.

there's something about the rumble of a V8 (and finances) which means that the ZB will not be on my shopping list into the future.

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Have you driven your Mini this hard?... :lol:

I'd have a classic mini over an insigneedoor anyday.... it's got Actual Depth of Character and draws passion, which is totally non existent... with the emotionless insigneedoor...



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZGjCkbWwmo