Toyota 86

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Is there any sense in comparing a Toyota 86 to Commodore SV6?
The only thing they have in common is that neither are fast in a straight line.

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I think he was pointing out an incorrect post on the times for an S15 and how an SV6 would not keep up. I was going to suggest that a JDM S15 is capable of a stock 14.8 1/4mile but I would suspect an Aus delivered version would only pull a low 15 as they are detuned for our "lower octane fuel".

In any case, yes I don't dispute the fact that it will be a fun car to drive but as something thats supposed to be a sports car I was hoping it would have more grunt than it does. People say they would buy this over a hot hatch, I would have to disagree. I would say at best it's going to deliver the same amount of performance in a package that is far less practical in something that looks faster than it really is. Not my cup of tea. Don't get me wrong I had high hopes for this car but I guess I'm not it's target audience.

One thing I will say though to Toyota is FINALLY!!! They have brought back a RWD car! Now please please please bring out a TRD version with a supercharger or turbo.

One car I am looking forward to the release of and yes I realise it will be double the price of the FT86 (according to web sources, I think it may go for more!) is the Alpha Romeo 4C. How does a target weight of 900kg with a 300hp 1.7L turbo engine sound?

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Originally Posted by charlie15

That's surprisingly quick for 6. I wonder what an 86 would do down the quarter.

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I read somewhere they do 14.8.

Ever since I heard about this car coming out I said I'd like to own one, but in reality now I have owned a big 4 door sedan I dont know if I could go back to a small 2 door

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Is there any sense in comparing a Toyota 86 to Commodore SV6?
The only thing they have in common is that neither are fast in a straight line.

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Whilst true, I am more focussed on the package rather than one aspect of the car. In my case, my driving is 80% in the peak hour commute so straight line speed is irrelevant. On the weekends a nice country road doesn't need straight line speed, it makes the trees come up a lot faster!!

According to today's paper (car section),
If you miss out on a car from the 1st shipment there is a minimum 6 months wait for the next batch.Toyota is saying they can deliver 250 a month
Also the Subaru BRZ will only have 1 model and price hasn't been set as yet AND there will only be 201 in the 1st six months coming to OZ

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Originally Posted by motorin on

According to today's paper (car section),
If you miss out on a car from the 1st shipment there is a minimum 6 months wait for the next batch.Toyota is saying they can deliver 250 a month
Also the Subaru BRZ will only have 1 model and price hasn't been set as yet AND there will only be 201 in the 1st six months coming to OZ

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Can't remember where I read this but supposedly the brz will be around 5-7k more than the 86 as well.

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Originally Posted by HSV,_I_GOT_ONE

One car I am looking forward to the release of and yes I realise it will be double the price of the FT86 (according to web sources, I think it may go for more!) is the Alpha Romeo 4C. How does a target weight of 900kg with a 300hp 1.7L turbo engine sound?

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Been watching the developement of that. Looks awesome, plenty of go and rwd too.

such alot of exceitment over this new car, its great to see a major car company, spending $ and making this car a reality, Rwd, sports car, instant classic, so much potential. i just whish holden would get off its #$%^ and do the same, when they anounced a possible torana years ago i thought hooray, a mid sized rwd............. FAIL FAIL FAIL

its not rocket science to see we dont want fwd cars, unless we want a cheap runabout thats good on fuel. There is a market for poo and there is a market in such demand it's been overlooked.

well done suburu, well done toyota. Shame i dont need a daily driver cause i'd buy one.

Why does our cheap runabout need to even be FWD?? these cars are meant to get something like 8l per hundred. The difference in price between that and a 6l per hundred is **** all.. 3 dollars per 100 kms, 30 dollars per thousand, and have a look how much more you get. These cars don't appeal to us v8 people, their spectrum is way broader!! Middle aged woman, young woman, with the fast four guys this will be a cult car! Look and listen Holden, u wonder why the japs are smashing us in car sales, how about trying to build a car that appeals to a different group of people other then families and rev heads!

We would also benefit from this, if Holden are making more money through a diff car other then the commodore we might get seat earners and auto wipers for the same price..

is it possible to photoshop a 2 door Cruze just to see what one would look like
There was a photo and comment in another thread about a 2 door Opel that was being tested in Oz,Holden said it will never be released here
I like the Nissan skyline/Infinity 350 GT 2 door,don't know why it was never released here,damn insurance is too expensive on the grey imports

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Originally Posted by timy

Middle aged woman, young woman, with the fast four guys this will be a cult car! ..

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Don't forget us mid-life crisis guys

Sorry I just assumed middle aged guys on this forum would go a ls3 supercharged gts hahaha.. My old man obviously has hit his mid life crisis, his got his first new car, and first v8.. New ssv fully optioned, he still refuses it as a mid life crisis car, should be a good looking garage to once mums new Toyota 86 gts is delivered too, hopefully on Wednesday she will go and pick it up.. 18/6 she has been told..

Seen it in the flesh at a release today

It bloody tiny, and the back seats are way too small to be utilized for much

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Originally Posted by timy

Sorry I just assumed middle aged guys on this forum would go a ls3 supercharged gts hahaha.. My old man obviously has hit his mid life crisis, his got his first new car, and first v8.. New ssv fully optioned, he still refuses it as a mid life crisis car, should be a good looking garage to once mums new Toyota 86 gts is delivered too, hopefully on Wednesday she will go and pick it up.. 18/6 she has been told..

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hahaaa- can't afford either one on my pension
That's why I am looking at a used Jap fast 4 turbo

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Originally Posted by heavyduty1340

It bloody tiny, and the back seats are way too small to be utilized for much

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I am sure there will be a few couples who will manage to christen the back seat just to prove it can be done

You would have to be a rice munching midget to do that :jester:

Pinched off another forum. Scion FR-S from the US of A.

WHOOPSIE

http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/h...90434786_n.jpg

Saw a 86 on the road today. Looks like Toyota has done a great job. Sounds like a very nice car. $30k starting price is excellent value. Fun doesn't necessarily mean lots of power.

Nice little car. Do they make them for men? :eek:
No turbo = weak

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Nice little car. Do they make them for men? :eek:
No turbo = weak

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Have to be for stick men to fit inside:flip2:

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Originally Posted by heavyduty1340

Have to be for stick men to fit inside:flip2:

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Let me know if you get the matching bag and shoes to go with it :lol:

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Nice little car. Do they make them for men? :eek:
No turbo = weak

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The same could probably be said about MX5's,but they have become popular with all ages and both sexes and this Toyota may end up as popular
I like my SS and it is a great freeway cruiser,but sometimes wish it wasn't so big and clumsy and I had something smaller and lighter to drive in the city and enjoy in places like the national park's where the roads are tight and twisty

Good point, but 147kw isnt going to cut it in 2012
Does anyone buy (new) MX5s any more?

With another 10K on the price tag and the 220kw STi engine in place it would have been a ripper :)

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Good point, but 147kw isnt going to cut it in 2012
Does anyone buy (new) MX5s any more?

With another 10K on the price tag and the 220kw STi engine in place it would have been a ripper :)

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I don't know if Toyota intended it as a performance car ex factory or as a drivers car to be enjoyed,they have left the door open for the "after market" guys to get stuck into it
Another 10k on the price would have put it in a totally different market and may have made a big impression on sales.At 30k to start it is in the range of a lot more buyers who may not want the extra HP
Mention was made on the Colorado thread about GM's approach with their modelling being aimed more at family buyer's than the young at heart,imagine the sales GM could have with a car like the Toyota
Apparently the Subaru BRZ is not being supplied to journo's on a long term evaluation basis only to paying customer's as they feel the car will sell itself

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Good point, but 147kw isnt going to cut it in 2012
Does anyone buy (new) MX5s any more?

With another 10K on the price tag and the 220kw STi engine in place it would have been a ripper :)

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10k aftermarket will get you far more than 220kw anyway.

The aftermarket has already taken off, forced induction is the main agenda and then the usual bolt on bits. The Subaru boys are running around with hardons about the BRZ, I'd say Toyota fan club would be also. Two different factory tuning houses (sti/trd) who I'm sure will release limited numbers of go fast models plus the aftermarket will see some quick ones sooner than later.

The Ae86 was unknown here until mid/late 90s when every man and his dog had to have an import so the hype hasn't been as big to most of us. It's a rebirth of a cult car..... Has to be good, right?

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Originally Posted by Magnum9

10k aftermarket will get you far more than 220kw anyway.

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Lets see them do it in OEM fashion
Adding turbos to Zed cars, MX5s etc over the years has always resulted in average performance and tons of issues.
Its one thing to have a turbo bolted onto a car, and quite another to have it last laps.

These things wont tune up anywhere in NA form,
and being a Subaru engine they wont last a particularly long time if turbocharged....take it as read.

Toybaru missed the performance boat, however they will sell to tons of hairdressers, general metros, and overseas uni-students that hang fluffy mango gonks from the rear tow hook.

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Toybaru missed the performance boat, however they will sell to tons of hairdressers, general metros, and overseas uni-students that hang fluffy mango gonks from the rear tow hook.

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The point of releasing this car for Toyota was to bring back the heritage of the original AE86 and for them to turbocharge or supercharge would go against that in this particular car. Remember when the AE86 came out is 1983 every 'hot' japanese car was getting turbochargers, and yet this thing still gets talked about. Cars dont need to get break neck fast to be popular / get a cult following.

I wouldnt be surprised if Subaru realeased a turbo version but would be if Toyota did

I think Martin you are completely missing the point of this car. About the best performance car that I can think of in a similar price bracket would be the polo GTi. I dare say that in a straight line the 86 wouldn't be far off the pace but on a twisty road would leave the polo GTi for dead.

C'mon Martin, you of all people love the challenge of selling a turbo kit to the masses so this should be right up your alley....... Go back to the Chinese turbos and watch your GP% soar!!!

I'm pretty sure when you buy shoddy Shenzhen you dont get manufacturer's warranty so wouldn't RMA'd kkk turbos eat that GP right back up ?? :)


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Originally Posted by csv rulz

I think Martin you are completely missing the point of this car. About the best performance car that I can think of in a similar price bracket would be the polo GTi. I dare say that in a straight line the 86 wouldn't be far off the pace but on a twisty road would leave the polo GTi for dead.

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The original AE86 had a ton more performance than a Volkswagen Golf of the era. Yet the new one measures up against a Polo?
Wait till there are some lap times for this thing released before it gets to much of a rap for being a performance car. Doesnt it come with Pruis tyres to reduce outright grip? :eek:

The fact that it is generating discussion on LS1 forum suggests that this car is 'special' and has the enthusiast public interest. I for one have placed a deposit on one and can't wait to get my hands on it. As I've stated in a previous post, I love powerful cars, but from a perspective of percieved driver engagement, and overall packaging and practicality, this fits the bill for me.

Outright power is great, but if we look back to history, there have been many giant killers that have lacked in the killerwasp department, but made a significant impact in the enthusist psyche.

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

Wait till there are some lap times for this thing released before it gets to much of a rap for being a performance car. Doesnt it come with Pruis tyres to reduce outright grip? :eek:

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Not sure if serious or you are just trolling here Martin. For someone who carries a bit of weight in the auto scene of Australia I would have hoped for a bit less bias and talking down......
It is not and never has been marketed as a performance car. It is being marketed as a involving driver's car. Sure it might not throw you back in your seat but chuck it into some twisty stuff and the idea is it will have you grinning ear to ear. It is more fun driving a slow car fast than a fast car slow.
As for the tyres, the car was developed with the 'Prius tyres' (Prius tyres meaning not performance orientated) and as said by the cheif designer it will give the customer more satisfaction at fitting their own high performance tyres and noticing the difference.

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Originally Posted by andrewslr

I for one have placed a deposit on one and can't wait to get my hands on it. As I've stated in a previous post, I love powerful cars, but from a perspective of percieved driver engagement, and overall packaging and practicality, this fits the bill for me.

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Did they have a demo model available for a test drive,or was it do a deposit subject to a test drive when stock arrives
I went past 2 Toyota showrooms after hours and they had none in sight

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Originally Posted by jai

I'm pretty sure when you buy shoddy Shenzhen you dont get manufacturer's warranty so wouldn't RMA'd kkk turbos eat that GP right back up ?? :)


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Not when you can buy Garretts to replace your non warranted Shenzhens. Perfect business model there, no warranty and sell more product = more GP on your monthly P&Ls

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Originally Posted by Phizzle

Not sure if serious or you are just trolling here Martin. For someone who carries a bit of weight in the auto scene of Australia I would have hoped for a bit less bias and talking down.......

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Thanks for the compliments, but certainly not talking it down, just giving the other side of the coin.
So far the only ones to say its involving are the test drive journos....but what is involvement? Is it speed? Is it steering feedback? There needs to be more hard scrutiny of this car as its powerplant is lacklustre, will not turbocharge well with DI (trust me we race enough flat engines to know of their inherent compromise for anything other than packaging) and its weight per size per output nothing brilliant.

Toyota 86 GTS at 1200kg and 147kw gives 8.16kg per kw for say $36K - $38K drive away with 0-100km/h in 7.6 seconds
WRX at 1455kg and 195kw gives 7.46kg per kw for $39K - $41K drive away with 0-100km/h in 4.9 seconds

Take away the tiny cutsie two door body for a moment and realise while there might be some of this mythical stuff you cant bottle called involvement, and its got to be bloody good stuff at that as the 86 doesnt offer any more than commuter car grunt.

I thought by "bit of weight" he was insinuating you were a fat kient?

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Originally Posted by brasher

I thought by "bit of weight" he was insinuating you were a fat kient?

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That too....certainly 147kw will struggle for the bigger lads :lol:
Never thought I would have a purists sports car discussion on a forum built on the clout of blown, cammed 5700cc plus engines, and 1/4 mile passes. Maybe times really have changed? :eek:

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

That too....certainly 147kw will struggle for the bigger lads :lol:
Never thought I would have a purists sports car discussion on a forum built on the clout of blown, cammed 5700cc plus engines, and 1/4 mile passes. Maybe times really have changed? :eek:

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It's a good point Martin, I was worried when I started the thread that it would turn to a pile of crap fairly quickly. But thanks to all those involved and to you Martin for showing the other side of the coin (as you put it) and doing it objectively. I'm with you, I am a big fan, but I am certainly not sold until I speak to a few buyers and see it for myself. I think there is real market for this car, I think the sale numbers will back it up, but in the end, is it really going to shake things up and move many members of this forum to a totally differnt driving package/experience.

Times will tell!

Cheers

Dave

Be interesting to see how soon some hit the 2nd hand market and how much value they lose - not including demo models
just did an online quote with AAMI on a GTS manual - $1590- value $35,490
No driving offences and 2 claims in the last 3 years