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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
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Originally Posted by
planetdavo
Paddles and tipshifts ATTEMPT to make them interesting (how many people actually use them regularly?), but rarely do they end up being even close to the enjoyment a manual can give. They are designed to press the accelerator/brake and reach your destination with a minimum of fuss.
Whereas (acknowledging some are also better than others) manual gearbox and clutch cars are only as good as the mug operating that lever and pedal...:hide:
Until more manufacturers start designing pedal layout to support exclusive left foot braking the buttons/paddles and even the up and down traditional gearsticks are just a gimmick.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zorro
Until more manufacturers start designing pedal layout to support exclusive left foot braking the buttons/paddles and even the up and down traditional gearsticks are just a gimmick.
What's wrong with the pedals as they are? I left foot brake sometimes. It's always interesting to start out with because you always forget that you have less fine motor control in your left leg and invariably brake way too hard, but it's all good
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
This is where hybrid technology could be good...
V8 with manual transmission, RWD LSD WITH a small ~50kw electric motor powering the front wheels supplied by a lithium battery pack. Work commute = Electric motor (When the manual is the problem). Every other time = V8/manual.
Could even go a step further and have a generator connected to the front of the engine (similar to the 4WD Ferrari), so when batteries run low you start the V8 (leave it in neutral) which charges them up on the fly. Sort of like the volt concept expect in a car you actually want to buy....
With electric drive by wire throttles these days you could easily switch between "modes"....
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
My knee hits the steering column, dunno what is is with Aussie cars and having the pedals as far right as possible and accelerator sitting further in.
If you had the pedals further to centre of the car and left foot braked its more natural feel and you would adjust pretty quick
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zorro
My knee hits the steering column, dunno what is is with Aussie cars and having the pedals as far right as possible and accelerator sitting further in.
If you had the pedals further to centre of the car and left foot braked its more natural feel and you would adjust pretty quick
Fair enough. I'm not tall enough to smash my knee :(
The accelerator pedal I agree with. I can heel-toe rev match in my Subaru but not in the Maloo
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zorro
Until more manufacturers start designing pedal layout to support exclusive left foot braking the buttons/paddles and even the up and down traditional gearsticks are just a gimmick.
I was taught to drive autos ..with left foot braking
and given that auto brake pedals are usually twice as wide as manual pedal cars... I never have an issue left foot braking :)
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steve_t
I was looking at a new car the other day and I really hate that DSG etc are listed as 'manual' transmissions. I guess they're not really automatics either but I consider them more auto than manual for driver involvement
i had an argument with the insurance company as my ute is 6 speed auto with the slickshift, not a manual or semi-auto. (even in 'manual mode' it'll kick to a different gear)
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
steve_t
Fair enough. I'm not tall enough to smash my knee :(
The accelerator pedal I agree with. I can heel-toe rev match in my Subaru but not in the Maloo
I might write up a guide, but its very easy to bend the accelerator pedal into a better position. I did it in my VX... Took a few goes but eventually got the position exactly right. Best mod you can do (if its manual).
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
feistl
I might write up a guide, but its very easy to bend the accelerator pedal into a better position. I did it in my VX... Took a few goes but eventually got the position exactly right. Best mod you can do (if its manual).
unfortunately on VE...Holden stopped this. Try bending the pedal bracket will break it (its made of rigid plastic!)
but I know where you are coming from...this mod was one I did on the race car
heel and toe now easypeasy :)
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y23...SC00691a19.jpg
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
After driving a Ferrari f430 f1 and Lamborghini gallardo flappy paddle, I can say they are a lot more fun than my 6spd manual in the SS. I truly love the speed that the gear changes are made it with a flip of the wrist.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smitty
unfortunately on VE...Holden stopped this. Try bending the pedal bracket will break it (its made of rigid plastic!)
d
Dont want to upset the VE owners, but is there anything good about the VE? Seriously? Ive driven a number of them (ranging from the base up to the calais and SSV) and ive been massively disappointed. Give me a top spec VZ anyday....
Quote:
Originally Posted by
evil_ss
After driving a Ferrari f430 f1 and Lamborghini gallardo flappy paddle, I can say they are a lot more fun than my 6spd manual in the SS.
Ive driven a Gallardo with the flappy paddle and was very unimpressed. First gear launches were "rough" and i was surprised at the lack of power. A flappy paddle might be a fun novelty... but id never own one.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
feistl
Ive driven a Gallardo with the flappy paddle and was very unimpressed. First gear launches were "rough" and i was surprised at the lack of power. A flappy paddle might be a fun novelty... but id never own one.
I'm unsure on your ride but the Ferrari was definitely the sharper of the two including the gearbox.
The Lamborghini felt like you needed to mash the pedal in first, so I'm assuming that's what you are referring to.
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Real drivers use a clutch :)
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
feistl
d
Dont want to upset the VE owners, but is there anything good about the VE? Seriously? Ive driven a number of them (ranging from the base up to the calais and SSV) and ive been massively disappointed. Give me a top spec VZ anyday...
The main reason for the plastic pedal is actually to do with safety. They are designed to break if required in a big accident, whereas the old metal type are more likely to bust your ankles.
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
planetdavo
The main reason for the plastic pedal is actually to do with safety. They are designed to break if required in a big accident, whereas the old metal type are more likely to bust your ankles.
It's cheaper too. No doubt a large factor
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
planetdavo
The main reason for the plastic pedal is actually to do with safety. They are designed to break if required in a big accident, whereas the old metal type are more likely to bust your ankles.
Also vz went to fly by wire so no need for steel pedal for rigidity. Would be good if we adopted the euro style pedals with the pivot on the floor.
I bolted a small ally block on my utes accelerator, that was enough to get heel toe working without doing some yoga to change gears.
It's funny I've had a go of a Fezza and like the roughness of it, that's a genuine semi auto. The things in Holden's are just an auto with electric selector that enables use of all gears.
Errol - it's fair to say the Ferrari/lambo can't be compared to an auto. The don't use torque converters, elec hydraulic clutches are a totally different kettle of fish
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
evil_ss
After driving a Ferrari f430 f1 and Lamborghini gallardo flappy paddle, I can say they are a lot more fun than my 6spd manual in the SS. I truly love the speed that the gear changes are made it with a flip of the wrist.
I have driven a Ferrari with the flappy paddles
boring as...just like steering an arcade game, no brains required!
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zorro
Errol - it's fair to say the Ferrari/lambo can't be compared to an auto. The don't use torque converters, elec hydraulic clutches are a totally different kettle of fish
Very true. I guess my point was i jumped in to this ultra expensive lambo expecting to be totally blown away... Took it for a drive and found a nice straight bit of private road... From a standing start i planted my foot expecting it to feel like an riding the shock wave of an exploding star... and it wasnt what i was expecting. The gearbox was slow to get going, the power was good, but not amazing. The shifts were relatively slow (I reckon i could be as fast with a proper manual) and i was just a bit disappointed. My expectations were probably a bit high (As it was an average 2005 lambo i think).
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Just having a look through the latest Wheels mag and it isn't just Manual V8 sedans that are becoming rare. On the Australian market if you want a normal manual 6cyl sedan you have a choice of Falcon XR6/Turbo/F6, the Commodore SV6 and the base Lexus IS250. The new BMW series sedan doesn't have any manual choices, although the old 3 series coupe did. As per a previous comment about Euro market BMW 7 series having manual gearboxs, I'd imagine manuals are a bit more prevalent in Europe, but they certainly are getting thin on the ground. Manuals are the preserve of 4 cyls nowadays.
Cheers, Matthew
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Smitty
I have driven a Ferrari with the flappy paddles
boring as...just like steering an arcade game, no brains required!
I guess F1 drivers, rally car drivers etc must have no brains....
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
evil_ss
I guess F1 drivers, rally car drivers etc must have no brains....
F1 cars are so quick now you couldn't drive them without the paddles.
Ferrari and Lambos are just produced to follow this technology as a marketing thing. They are quicker than manuals but if they were true drivers car they would sell them as manuals too, but people who buy those cars don't want the manual gearbox.
Rally cars still have a clutch but use a sequential box which is arguably still manual.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
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Originally Posted by
JuiceSSV
F1 cars are so quick now you couldn't drive them without the paddles.
Ferrari and Lambos are just produced to follow this technology as a marketing thing. They are quicker than manuals but if they were true drivers car they would sell them as manuals too, but people who buy those cars don't want the manual gearbox.
Rally cars still have a clutch but use a sequential box which is arguably still manual.
I get what you are saying, as I love driving my manual, but you say true drivers cars are full manual- well that cancels out a lot of the super cars in existence. I believe it is the way of the future and manuals are heading towards extinction.
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
100%.. I only bought my v8 manual ute as they are living on borrowed time. Wanted one as a kid in high school, give it 10 years they probably won't be sold anymore.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
I did one of those supercars drive days a few weeks back and came away thinking that the 911, R8 and Vantage would all have been better as manuals. The F430 on the other hand is just such an OMG experience to drive that the lack of manual transmission just didn't matter.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
macca_779
It's cheaper too. No doubt a large factor
I don't doubt cheaper.
But look at where the world has been heading for years now, with 5 star ANCAP/NCAP ratings considered very important to many buyers. Leg injuries are a factor in reaching these 5 star results, so many cars now feature "breakaway pedals" to improve the rating. As does VE.
No conspiracy theories required. ;)
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
evil_ss
I get what you are saying, as I love driving my manual, but you say true drivers cars are full manual- well that cancels out a lot of the super cars in existence. I believe it is the way of the future and manuals are heading towards extinction.
"Progress" isn't always "better". Is the planet actually a happier place since technology invaded our lives from every angle possible? Nope.
In the case of supercars, many of the buyers are rich people that probably couldn't drive a "proper" manual car if they tried. Not to mention wanting to have something different to the common folk that only spend 10% of what they did on a car, so they can feel all superior and all. :)
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
evil_ss
I guess F1 drivers, rally car drivers etc must have no brains....
my comments were based on having driven the Ferrari road car with paddles
... as a comparison against my MANUAL SSv and my son-in-laws MANUAL Ferrari 360
and yes it really needs no brains to steer the flappy paddle version
it was not a comparison based on competition vehicles
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
I did a thorough search on carsales for a used manual Holden v8 (ls1 and newer) and found that most people are asking at least 3-5k more for the manuals. If someone's looking for one with low kms in a manual they'll be hard pressed to find one at a decent price. Becoming rare even in older models.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
I gotta say I'm a fan of the flappy paddles in the Ferrari. I did one of those super car drive days as well which had a Gallardo (manual) and a 360 (flappy paddle). I thought the Gallardo was going to be the nicer one to drive and experience as it was the newer car and manual. Instead I fell in love with the Ferrari. The Gallardo was great and had a nice sound etc etc. but for some reason I didn't feel comfortable in it. The ferarri on the other hand felt like a glove. Everything about it made me feel comfortable from the get go and made me feel like the best driver in the world. That said not all flappy pedals are created equal. Have a go at an Alfa 147 GTA selespeed (different from their normal selespeeds so don't be confused with a base 147) but that thing was an aboslute dog in traffic. I think it would be at home on a track but I was test driving through the CBD at the time. Hated it.
My thoughts on why manuals are getting shown the door. The power in cars these days is getting to the point that the clutches required to handle the oomph are getting too heavy for a factory show room car. New generation gear boxes are now quicker than what a person can shift these days. And finally the driveability and ease of use factor for all types of driving is there with a twitch of a finger. I understand peoples perception of how fun a manual is (I am one too, my clubby is manual) but these new gen DSG's and dual clutch gearboxes are really quite good. Punt one hard through some of the twisties and I think they still demand the same amount of concentration if not more. It's too easy to slap that paddle too many times and get the gear wrong in these if you're not used to it.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JuiceSSV
Real drivers use a clutch :)
u don't need no stinking clutch ,lol , use to get the weirdest look when upshifting sans clutch .
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
XUV
u don't need no stinking clutch ,lol , use to get the weirdest look when upshifting sans clutch .
Fair call but you still need it to get off the line, whether you use it for up shifts is optional :)
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
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Originally Posted by
HSV,_I_GOT_ONE
I understand peoples perception of how fun a manual is (I am one too, my clubby is manual) but these new gen DSG's and dual clutch gearboxes are really quite good. Punt one hard through some of the twisties and I think they still demand the same amount of concentration if not more. It's too easy to slap that paddle too many times and get the gear wrong in these if you're not used to it.
A sh!t driver will usually find a way to their their "talent" shine through, no matter what the car. Thinks like all wheel drive and flappy paddles just mask it a bit longer...:eek:
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
charlie15
I did a thorough search on carsales for a used manual Holden v8 (ls1 and newer) and found that most people are asking at least 3-5k more for the manuals. If someone's looking for one with low kms in a manual they'll be hard pressed to find one at a decent price. Becoming rare even in older models.
Yeah, but that's sort of always been the case. The manuals get better values than autos in the used market. Especially in performance / sports cars.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
feistl
Dont want to upset the VE owners, but is there anything good about the VE? Seriously? Ive driven a number of them (ranging from the base up to the calais and SSV) and ive been massively disappointed. Give me a top spec VZ anyday....
It's all subjective of course but I've had a VY SV8 (26,000km), 2 VZ SSs (30,000+km total) and two VE SSVs (sedan and ute, 80,000+km total) all autos due to having no choice with my disabilities and after driving them day in, day out over 9 years IMHO the VEs have been hands down the better cars to drive. In particular every time I get in the ute I have a big smile on my face because it just goes, sounds and handles so well. :woohoo: The A6 has been tuned by Chev and particularly with the extra oil capacity with the Cadillac A6 pan is smooth and decisive.
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
It took me ages to find my manual VZ R8, especially in the colour I wanted (Devil Yellow). Even the people that arent into their cars as much as other people have cottened on to the fact that the stick versions are worth a little more as their harder to come by. I guess it makes the bargaining process just that litle more challenging ;)
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
I agree with Wonky, VE's are in another class compared to previous models.
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Originally Posted by
Wonky
The A6 has been tuned by Chev and particularly with the extra oil capacity with the Cadillac A6 pan is smooth and decisive.
Out of curiosity, what did these modifications end up costing?
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
JuiceSSV
Fair call but you still need it to get off the line, whether you use it for up shifts is optional :)
pfft , mere technicality , lol .......
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Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
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Originally Posted by
XUV
pfft , mere technicality , lol .......
My old HQ 253 with aus 4 could be driven without clutch, even from a standstill provided there was no hills :lol:
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Ive got one people can have because im selling :D Very rare, manual...... ss........
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Re: Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Drizt
Out of curiosity, what did these modifications end up costing?
In the "Filling 6L80E" thread people mentioned getting the Caddy pan, filter and gasket landed here for around $A170 (IIRC). Weld some baffles in to stop surge/starvation under heavy acceleration and do the swap (or have it done). I bought 3 x 4 litres Dexron VI, not sure how much Chev used but any left over will still be there for me. Basically, depending on how much you can do yourself around $300 - $500. Probably eliminates the need for a transmission cooler because with the extra capacity I've not seen my trans temp go over 80C in normal driving (which is all I ever do - with my disabilities I can't give my car a hard time except for the rare burst of WOT in a straight line).