Supercharged HSV this year?....I say yes.

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

Your clear inference was that I can't possibly afford cars like this, and more particularly, cars like YOU can afford. You followed it up by saying that if I can't afford cars like this, I shouldn't be giving my 2c worth. Yep, righto then.
You should be very careful judging other people's position in the world. I've tried to explain why cars like this cost far more than many people realise, and have explained what sort of customer base is their target market. You didn't agree, so you judged my position in the world.

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Bullshit ... I made no such inference, I asked a question (which you didn't answer).

... and what do you know, you answered a question I didn't ask ... again.

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

Maybe you need to go back to school...:lmao:
To quote...
"Well Davo you seem to have an opinion on everything ... are you honestly in the target market W427? If not, going by your advice, you shouldn't really be throwing your 2c in ...
I have purchased 7 brand new HSVs ... I've spent over $500K with the company. My current daily drive is a C63 and I would have bought a W427 without hesitation ... if it had been priced realistically."

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Sorry Dave, I left the "youre" out of the sentence.

Nick was talking about his purchases and not making any assumptions or inference to yours.

I hope, and no reason to doubt, that you are financially comfortable. More importantly, I hope you are in good health.

Each individuals finances are insignificant other than to describe their stance and financial stake in their statements. I have been making such statements so as to give some background to my sentiments and opinions and position and not to big note ( I hope that makes sense as I am writing from a phone and it is very difficult).

We are passionate purchasers and not knockers. Please do not confuse one for the other.

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Originally Posted by NickS

I think bouka's point was that I never made any statement about YOUR financial situation ...

I only raised my financial situation as you seem to think anyone that hasn't bought a W427 couldn't afford it anyway so therefore weren't in the "target market" and their view is irrelevant.

:rolleyes:

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Spot on Nick.

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Originally Posted by NickS

I think bouka's point was that I never made any statement about YOUR financial situation ...

I only raised my financial situation as you seem to think anyone that hasn't bought a W427 couldn't afford it anyway so therefore weren't in the "target market" and their view is irrelevant.

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Sorry Nick, but if you hadn't even brought into question my ability or otherwise to play in this market then we'd have no reason to be discussing it at all, right? You made the statement.
You are just ONE of the people who could have afforded a W427 (or maybe this possible s/c HSV), so don't think for a second that your views represent everyone else. Others don't want a C63 either, or an M3, or a Lexus LS-F, or a GTR, or whatever else is in this general price range. That's what is good about it....CHOICE.

Nick, what options and price etc would you like to see in this alleged GTS?

What would it take to get you into one?

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

There have been expensive HSV "specials" in the past that offered far less unique qualities than W427. Yes they cost less, but you also didn't get much different either.
Saying this though, which are the models that are worth the bucks now, and which are simply "old HSV's"? Yep, the pricey ones are the ones people talk about. GTS-R is probably the most talked about, yet what was it? It was a GTS painted in Vic taxi yellow with a bit of carbon fibre on it, and nothing unique at all about the driveline!
I think you've over-simplified the whole "engineering" process Xjas.
Yes, this engine is an existing engine, but it has NEVER been fitted into a VE Zeta chassis as a production car anywhere in the world. The closest it has got is the 2012 Camaro, which to quote GM..."The all-new, 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 is powered by the LSA 6.2L supercharged V-8 engine that produces an estimated 550 horsepower (410 kW) and 550 lb.-ft. of torque (745 Nm)."
That is rather massive torque compared to existing outputs.
Again this gets back to what I was saying about engine swaps. Your post indicates that you are also one of the people that feels that if an engine bolts in and runs, it's "engineered". Out in tuner land maybe, but not for a manufacturer.
Far from it in fact. Everything from the engine mounts to the gearbox mount, diff assembly, rear suspension mountings, arms and bushes, hot weather cooling and fuel systems, to the shell itself must be engineered to withstand this level of torque, all whilst meeting long term reliability, emissions testing and driveability expectations. Holden/HSV have to do all this over what, 200 cars?
Big cost.

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The GTS-R was hardly a massive success in terms of inital sales, people bang on about there value now but if you'd put that money into a term deposit instead of buying a new GTS-R you would have more money today than if you'd invested in a GTS-R, the W427 will be the same.
I think you're over complicating the engineering process, which is exactly what they want you to believe so they can justify charging whatever they want for the car. AFAIK the zeta platform is shared with the Camaro so I would think the driveline part of the engineering would be done and dusted by now considering the upcoming ZL1 Camaro, the rest of the issues are very, and I mean very, basic engineering problems that should be easily solved, exhaust noise and emissions = pipes, mufflers and tune, heat managment = the heat output of the engine would be well documnented within GM engineering, I would think Holden has pretty good data on Austraila's ambient conditions already on file so its just a matter of sizing the radiator and heat shielding appropriately, intake system = the engines required air flow would also be well docunmented in within GM so it just a matter of pipe size and air filter square cms to satisfy required flow, fuel system required pump size and line size = would already be well documented within GM. They aren't reiventing the wheel.

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

Sorry Nick, but if you hadn't even brought into question my ability or otherwise to play in this market then we'd have no reason to be discussing it at all, right? You made the statement.
You are just ONE of the people who could have afforded a W427 (or maybe this possible s/c HSV), so don't think for a second that your views represent everyone else. Others don't want a C63 either, or an M3, or a Lexus LS-F, or a GTR, or whatever else is in this general price range. That's what is good about it....CHOICE.

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I asked the old man what he thought about the w427 and if us kids were still young would he have looked at one. Simply he answered no, with explanation to the effect that it is a commodore with a bigger v8 than the rest and it looks not much dissimilar to kristies r8..... That was before I mentioned the asking price. Im not divulging his financial situation but let's say he has spent that sort of money and more on cars.

An lsa in a commodore be it HSV or Holden is always going to be just that. Fpv is no different. Price the things right and bang for buck will be a ripper buy. HSV historically have been good at devaluing any limited edition released so why not throw it in gts and call it a day.

Btw what exactly is anything special on putting a different ls series motor into the current body? It seems to be talked up like its a million dollar mission....

Yeah it costs 60k per unit to develop an extra radiator for the inter cooler. Give me a break Davo. Any big power development that required real engineering has already been done I assure you during the initial design of the VE and that data will be well available to HSV. Verification in an actual car is not that intense to verify either. Flog it, NDT it, flog it again etc. This car will have the W427 power bits fitted and that's all. Hell they don't even have to worry about the dry sump this time as the LSA is not even the hero engine.

Ford would of had to do far more engineering for their engine. FFS they forged the damm thing and designed the supercharger execution more or less in house is how serious they were about it. HSV has got it easy using a parts catalog with full support from GM powertrain. It's actually pretty slack they didn't go with the ls9 and do it properly for what they are no doubt going to charge.


iPhone 4

Cmon guys give Davo a go . He is qualified to answer cos he has spent 'HSV' money on a Holden Monaro

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Originally Posted by rgmast

Cmon guys give Davo a go . He is qualified to answer cos he has spent 'HSV' money on a Holden Monaro

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That no one has ever been able to verify exists


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Just a brief off topic if I may,
For those fortunate enough to own a C63, M3, Lexus, a Nissan GT-R or whatever else is in this price range...
How do you rate the dealer servicing .. i.e as a trusted technical advisor with skilled mechanics graded to match the vehicle or is just a sh!t kicker that works on anything from a Barina to W427 given the opportunity.
I've lost so much confidence in Holden service that I would lose sleep if had a 150k vehicle in a franchise for even the most basic repair.

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Originally Posted by zorro

I asked the old man what he thought about the w427 and if us kids were still young would he have looked at one. Simply he answered no, with explanation to the effect that it is a commodore with a bigger v8 than the rest and it looks not much dissimilar to kristies r8..... That was before I mentioned the asking price. Im not divulging his financial situation but let's say he has spent that sort of money and more on cars.

An lsa in a commodore be it HSV or Holden is always going to be just that. Fpv is no different. Price the things right and bang for buck will be a ripper buy. HSV historically have been good at devaluing any limited edition released so why not throw it in gts and call it a day.

Btw what exactly is anything special on putting a different ls series motor into the current body? It seems to be talked up like its a million dollar mission....

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Your farther is another great example of the point Ash.

I fear that the W has been an innocent victim in a drive by shooting. The point is, however relevant.

My guess would be that the lsa would be used in a new ( updated ) body. My guess would be that the asking price will be significantly less than the W.

I hope HSV get it right. My gut tells me they will.

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Originally Posted by macca_779

That no one has ever been able to verify exists


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Haha Gold

Love it
Macca

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Originally Posted by bouka

My guess would be that the lsa would be used in a new ( updated ) body. My guess would be that the asking price will be significantly less than the W.

I hope HSV get it right. My gut tells me they will.

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Bouka I think you are on the money more than someone else in the know... At least I hope you are. If HSV are marketing a new hero GTS to the collectors out there then I suspect there will be even fewer sales than the W427. And despite what HSV might say in public they know that they have lost sales for those for whom kW mean everything. By the way I don't agree that the GFC contributed significantly to the poor W427 sales, maybe a few but certainly not hundreds. The W427 wasn't relevant to those who could justify having a $150k car in the driveway compared to offerings from BMW, Audi and Merc (AMG). Any LSA GTS needs to be targetted more towards someone who would buy a GTS but will also pay a bit extra for the hero car rather than those who would happily buy anything with an HSV badge to put in the shed for later. As I said if it will cost $150k then I will buy something else or lower my expectations.

The only thing is I hope that the LSA GTS is a swan song for the E series shape. Presumably the S/C 5.5L motor will take over as the 'standard' engine and there would be nothing to stop HSV doing a limited run of LSA F series later on.

Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by mjrandom

Bouka I think you are on the money more than someone else in the know... At least I hope you are. If HSV are marketing a new hero GTS to the collectors out there then I suspect there will be even fewer sales than the W427. And despite what HSV might say in public they know that they have lost sales for those for whom kW mean everything. By the way I don't agree that the GFC contributed significantly to the poor W427 sales, maybe a few but certainly not hundreds. The W427 wasn't relevant to those who could justify having a $150k car in the driveway compared to offerings from BMW, Audi and Merc (AMG). Any LSA GTS needs to be targetted more towards someone who would buy a GTS but will also pay a bit extra for the hero car rather than those who would happily buy anything with an HSV badge to put in the shed for later. As I said if it will cost $150k then I will buy something else or lower my expectations.

The only thing is I hope that the LSA GTS is a swan song for the E series shape. Presumably the S/C 5.5L motor will take over as the 'standard' engine and there would be nothing to stop HSV doing a limited run of LSA F series later on.

Time will tell.

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All just guess work mate, just hoping for the best.

I have no doubt the guys ( and gals) are fully aware of how good the sc gt is. I reckon they would have driven it and appreciate what it has done for the Aussie muscle car market.

They would know where the goal posts are. And they would be lining up the middle sticks.

I also reckon the gang at FPV have their fair share of stuff in the shed out the back. If the suits in the boardroom at Fraud head office would take off the shackles we would see the reinvention of the Aussie performance sedan. Have no doubt.