VF Commodore revealed - Official details and pics- Part 2

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by powerd

Mattnsw

Agree completely. By luck, I went to the Shanghai Motorshow last year - now the second largest in the world. I was staggered at the range of local carmakers and how quickly they are catching up. Sure, there is some junk, but don't be fooled - those ones are cheap(or funny "copies") so the locals can buy them in big numbers. Only the smaller, cheaper locals had interiors of lower quality than the VE, paint seemed quite good and plenty of locally made cars(some of which were remakes of imported cars) were better. Some had more technology. If this is what they are like now, and how fast they are improving, what will they be like in 5-10 or even 15 years time? And don't forget the Indians TATA and Mahindra.

It won't be ordinary Cherys at $10k, it will be fully equipped mid sized cars at <$15k, and larger cars at <$20k. Who wouldn't look seriously and probably buy? The big Euro names who build cars there now will also start bringing in their Chinese built cars - silly not to. And most Chinese makers are dead keen to sell internationally, but are overrun with buyers at home and know their safety and technology is not quite there yet. But they are all preparing for their global stampede. What sort of stoush will there be in the market then?

---

So just to clarify, the Worst of the chinese (and indian) cars had interiors of lower quality than flagship holden models (and im guessing you mean flagship as you said you went and looked at an SSV wagon before you bought your Skoda)? And that because the interior and tech of the VE was so poor thats why it sold so little??

We have a VE R8 and a 2 year old Golf GTD. The Golf has all the warm and fuzzy bits inside you keep referring to such as soft touch dash, reverse park assist, touch screen, sat nav, heated seats, etc etc etc. We bought it for my Mrs. Its a shopping Cart and errand runner. When I looked at the R8 the last thing i was worried about was soft touch dashes and heated seats...And we would both take the R8 over the golf any day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 701let

We have a VE R8 and a 2 year old Golf GTD. The Golf has all the warm and fuzzy bits inside you keep referring to such as soft touch dash, reverse park assist, touch screen, sat nav, heated seats, etc etc etc. We bought it for my Mrs. Its a shopping Cart and errand runner. When I looked at the R8 the last thing i was worried about was soft touch dashes and heated seats...And we would both take the R8 over the golf any day.

---

Why didn't you buy your Mrs an R8 as well then?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C4B

Why didn't you buy your Mrs an R8 as well then?

---

Because we already have one.

For me the interior of the VE was the deal breaker and I tried to want one. And I am a car nut who really values the drive. Most people just sit there in traffic ignoring the world around them don't really car that much how something drives as long as it is acceptable so the interior they can touch and see every day ranks much higher for them than me. The fact that R8 sells for near double the price of a Golf GTD so the fact that the Golf's interior is notably superior in quality doesn't look great for the Commodore. I sorely hope that the VF redresses this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 701let

Because we already have one.

---

But you both drive right? So if your Mrs loves the R8, why did you buy her a little Hatchback?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C4B

But you both drive right? So if your Mrs loves the R8, why did you buy her a little Hatchback?

---

Because we needed a diesel for business purposes

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Party Pete

For me the interior of the VE was the deal breaker and I tried to want one. And I am a car nut who really values the drive. Most people just sit there in traffic ignoring the world around them don't really car that much how something drives as long as it is acceptable so the interior they can touch and see every day ranks much higher for them than me. The fact that R8 sells for near double the price of a Golf GTD so the fact that the Golf's interior is notably superior in quality doesn't look great for the Commodore. I sorely hope that the VF redresses this.

---

The GTD was 45k. The clubby was 60k. Both new.

Different deals on different days I suppose but the point still holds that the interior of the VE was out of step with its pricing and it only gets worse as you work up the price range. It was a deal breaker for me after 4 Holdens in a row despite the fact that I thought the HSVs were a great drive. Obviously I'm not alone because the sales reflect this. As I say though, hopefully Holden has redressed this with the VF which we will know soon enough once they hit the showrooms.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Party Pete

Different deals on different days I suppose but the point still holds that the interior of the VE was out of step with its pricing and it only gets worse as you work up the price range. It was a deal breaker for me after 4 Holdens in a row despite the fact that I thought the HSVs were a great drive. Obviously I'm not alone because the sales reflect this. As I say though, hopefully Holden has redressed this with the VF which we will know soon enough once they hit the showrooms.

---

Mate the hsv has ap brakes all round, 19 inch wheels, a 6l V8 is just a much bigger car overall and was 15k more. What are just the brakes and rubber alone worth 10k?

You won't get a gtd with leather, park assist sat Nav etc for much if any cheaper than that.

And at the time the clubby with leather was that price.

I'm not trying to run down the golf, it is really a good car. Point I'm trying to make is that the holden/hsv is a lot of car for the money and some of the comments about how poor the interior is (comparing it to Chinese vehicles) are just ridiculous. And as this is a holden/hsv forum I thought that would be ok...

I think the 'low sales' has more to do with the fact the model was out for 6 years..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 701let

Because we needed a diesel for business purposes

---

I've had 4 V8's as company cars. What's the motivation behind a diesel?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C4B

I've had 4 V8's as company cars. What's the motivation behind a diesel?

---

I'm not going to go into the ins and outs of it but we needed diesel vehicles. Hence the gtd.

I'm not criticising your choice of the R8 or knocking the overall value of the Commodore, just saying that the interior was not in line with the price, a problem that got more pronounced the further up the model range you went. For me it was a deal breaker and I have always believed that it is at least part of the reason why Commodore has been losing market share. Not the whole reason, but not helping the situation either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Party Pete

I'm not criticising your choice of the R8 or knocking the overall value of the Commodore, just saying that the interior was not in line with the price, a problem that got more pronounced the further up the model range you went. For me it was a deal breaker and I have always believed that it is at least part of the reason why Commodore has been losing market share. Not the whole reason, but not helping the situation either.

---

No worries mate I'm not offended just thought I'd put my 2c in

Cheers!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

The US gov bought GM using billions of tax dollars, the Aus gov could do the same with Holden, instead of everything going offshore, at least it is back in Australian hands.

Im sure Holden made things besides cars before, during and after the second world war, which means that it can be done.

---

Building a car with a dry sump was too much for Holden (The W427, Holden built it with a wet sump LS3, HSV had to take it out and put in the LS7). How do you expect them to build anything other than conventional passenger cars?

At the time of WW2 and many years after, Holden had higher skills even on the production line because more things were done by hand (welding/painting) and also in house (The Woodville Tool Room as an example). Nowadays car factories are more about the final assembly of components bought in Just-In Time from suppliers and many other skills are out-sourced or replaced by machines.

About the only thing Holden has to offer in terms of manufacturing something other then passenger cars is a big factory space. Mind you Holden does possess very good engineering skills as can be seen by the development of the Camaro.

Cheers, Matthew

Holden is suffering the effects of a few doubtful calls over the last few years, a parent company who went bust (well saved by the govt but hardly in a strong position) and unfair market conditions. It shouldn't be forgotten that the rest of the world is busy pushing their currencies down in a dubious currency war at the expense of Australia's competitive position. Really, things couldn't be worse for Australian manufacturing than at the moment. The question is whether they can hold on until things get better, which they most likely will. Good product will help a lot though.