FPV's 351kw GT-F more powerful than HSV's 430kw GTS, How did this happen?

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Originally Posted by SUZUKI MALISHA

.they redid the test with a hsv and fpv engineer on hand and guess what.......349rwkws just as ford said. So mud on your face wheels.....

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Wheels haven't re-tested the cars yet, this is when the engineers will be present, the 349 rwkw was posted by a rival publication.

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/news/140...t-controversy/

For the record, the HSV GTS – also fitted with a six-speed auto – recorded 330kW at the rear wheels. The FPV GT-F topped out at 311kW.

I don't believe the GT-F figure... Unless they purposely heat soaked it to get rid of the overboost feature to see what the actual rated 351kw made on the dyno... That would sound about right in those circumstances...

My 335 made 312rwkw standard (on Gentech's dyno, my old xr6t made 289 on it, and 305 on other dynos), so it arguably reads a touch lower.

Not sure what planet people are on when they suggest 311rwkw is normal for the GT-F....

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Originally Posted by JimmyXR6T04

I don't believe the GT-F figure... Unless they purposely heat soaked it to get rid of the overboost feature to see what the actual rated 351kw made on the dyno... That would sound about right in those circumstances...

My 335 made 312rwkw standard (on Gentech's dyno, my old xr6t made 289 on it, and 305 on other dynos), so it arguably reads a touch lower.

Not sure what planet people are on when they suggest 311rwkw is normal for the GT-F....

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Yep, think you'll find that's pretty much the state of it, Ford have all but proved that.

Take nothing away from the GTS, but the GT-F has been treated very badly and previous results on that dyno show it has a strange problem with Ford products.

If 335 GT's are getting 325-330rwkw everywhere else (except here, 250rwkw?? WTF) then its only logical you'd be expecting to atleast mach those numbers if not better, why weren't questions asked??

Either way Wheels and Street Machine now look quite foolish as a result.

Should have taken it to APS. At least then bias and accuracy can be ruled out

Hi

Great thread. I now have my hands on a 430kw GTS and just trying to see if a neighbour wants to throw his new Falcon GTF on a dyno to compare the two in the same conditions/weather/dyno and with "NO BULL". Might have to call up Chev's who will be able to do a TRUE dyno comparison.

Regards,

Richard
HRTSEN

Off topic for two seconds to put something into perspective... how awesome is it to have two aussie weapons, at such affordable prices (relative to other performance cars), and all people can argue about is which one has a few more kws or is slightly quicker down the strip blah blah... I love my GT, and as much as i want a GTS, it will never see the track, so the added advantages it has will basically go to waste for me... In terms of raw power, my GT with exhaust and tune is bloody awesome. Scares the heck out of the mrs, makes the kids giggle with delight, and makes rear seat adult passengers feel queasy in the guts! It could do with an interior upgrade, but for 60k brand new, it was a performance bargain!

Good to finally see the GT variants getting the press they deserve about the power outputs, many people were unaware just how understated the GT is. Will be interesting to see the new 'wheels' dyno test though...

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Originally Posted by JimmyXR6T04

Off topic for two seconds to put something into perspective... how awesome is it to have two aussie weapons, at such affordable prices (relative to other performance cars)

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This. I picked up my GTS 2 weeks ago and it's brilliant. The fact these cars are even being produced and we aren't having to drive hybrids or 4 cyl buzz boxes is amazing.

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Originally Posted by JimmyXR6T04

I don't believe the GT-F figure... Unless they purposely heat soaked it to get rid of the overboost feature to see what the actual rated 351kw made on the dyno... That would sound about right in those circumstances...

My 335 made 312rwkw standard (on Gentech's dyno, my old xr6t made 289 on it, and 305 on other dynos), so it arguably reads a touch lower.

Not sure what planet people are on when they suggest 311rwkw is normal for the GT-F....

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They did attempt to heat soak it, they dyno'ed it 9 times compared to the HSV's 4 times, also from my understanding, the is overboost is only in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. Both tests were done with the auto's in 4th gear not just because of the overboost but because its the closest they can get to a 1-1 ratio. Although, I agree they should be done with the manuals! Over both tests I believe this one to be the most accurate for 2 reasons;

1 - Ford have been under-stating their figures for years
2 - Both HSV and Ford had engineers present to make sure their cars made maximum power.
and 3rd (although probably not a real reason); both tests were done in the same environment, exact same temperature and in the video you can see both cars are handled exactly the same.

At the end of the day though, we have the better car overall, let them have their figures, its all they have left!

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Originally Posted by HSVManboy

They did attempt to heat soak it, they dyno'ed it 9 times compared to the HSV's 4 times, also from my understanding, the is overboost is only in 1st, 2nd and 3rd gears. Both tests were done with the auto's in 4th gear not just because of the overboost but because its the closest they can get to a 1-1 ratio. Although, I agree they should be done with the manuals! Over both tests I believe this one to be the most accurate for 2 reasons;

1 - Ford have been under-stating their figures for years
2 - Both HSV and Ford had engineers present to make sure their cars made maximum power.
and 3rd (although probably not a real reason); both tests were done in the same environment, exact same temperature and in the video you can see both cars are handled exactly the same.

At the end of the day though, we have the better car overall, let them have their figures, its all they have left!

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I think you're confusing the 'wheels' test with the other test. The other test did the 9 runs to make sure that the 348rwkw wasn't a once off freak thing, and they replicated it consistently. And i don't think the engineers have been involved in any dyno test as of yet. I feel that wheels did something a bit sneaky. Considering most 335's dyno anywhere from 310-330rwkw, then the 351 should be more than 311rwkw.

The problem with dyno testing is that it can be manipulated depending on what you want. Something not quite right when the new more powerful FPV can't even match the 335...

I'm not weighing into the pissing content, but I have a question about the transient overboost. How long can/does the blower provide the extra boost in the real world? Can it be maintained for lasting periods of time, or is it a quick spray of extra boost for a short period of time and then that's it? ie. the bugger all time a car spends at high RPM on a dyno suits the transient nature, and really real world how long do most people spend at sustained high RPM?

I'm sure I will get flamed with "I spend all my time at 6,000rpm!", but I'm talking day driver types and those drivers with mechanical sympathy.

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Originally Posted by SSer

I'm not weighing into the pissing content, but I have a question about the transient overboost. How long can/does the blower provide the extra boost in the real world? Can it be maintained for lasting periods of time, or is it a quick spray of extra boost for a short period of time and then that's it? ie. the bugger all time a car spends at high RPM on a dyno suits the transient nature, and really real world how long do most people spend at sustained high RPM?

I'm sure I will get flamed with "I spend all my time at 6,000rpm!", but I'm talking day driver types and those drivers with mechanical sympathy.

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I believe it's about 20 seconds, or until the intake temps decide it's enough. Essentially, it's a feature that's always there. I'm guessing that if the car was intercooled, there'd be no 'overboost' as it would simply make that power all the time. The reason it backs off is to protect the engine due to lack of intercooler... that's my understanding anyway, happy to be corrected though.

I think the reason ford were so annoyed, and it ignited so much debate was the extremely low FPV reading. If the GTS banged out 339rwkw, and the GT 330ish then it wouldn't be so out of character. The fact that normal GT's pump out 320rwkw is what has caused the eyebrows to be raised and questions asked.

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Originally Posted by JimmyXR6T04

I think you're confusing the 'wheels' test with the other test. The other test did the 9 runs to make sure that the 348rwkw wasn't a once off freak thing, and they replicated it consistently. And i don't think the engineers have been involved in any dyno test as of yet. I feel that wheels did something a bit sneaky. Considering most 335's dyno anywhere from 310-330rwkw, then the 351 should be more than 311rwkw.

The problem with dyno testing is that it can be manipulated depending on what you want. Something not quite right when the new more powerful FPV can't even match the 335...

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Apologies, your right I did get confused. And just to clarify, this current test where the GT-F made 348rwkw is the one I personally believe to be more accurate.

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Originally Posted by HSVManboy

Apologies, your right I did get confused. And just to clarify, this current test where the GT-F made 348rwkw is the one I personally believe to be more accurate.

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I agree with you mate. 311 doesn't make sense... 330-350rwkw seems accurate considering the normal GT. The GTS seems about right at 340rwkw, as i'd assume it suffers more losses through the drivetrain due to how beefed up it is.

End of the day, peak power isn't everything. It's nice to brag about, but one look at the fat torque curve of the GTS, and the tech to help launch it and get the power down is enough to know which manufacturer were the more serious when releasing the car. I just wish FPV had the money and one last chance to have a crack at matching the GTS.

Regardless of which car is faster, would be nice for the ford fans if in fact the GT-F turns out to be undisputed most powerful Aussie car... at least until the next GTS!

The pre-pubescent bullsh!t stops when the quarter and lap times start talking...
Otherwise, I couldn't really give a toss. Dyno the two of them on different dyno's and on different days, and you'll get all sorts of differences to spank off over if that's your thing.
End of the day, BOTH of them are performance bargains. One just costs more and performs a bit better for your extra money.