Does HSV understand its Market?

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Originally Posted by nailit

They have done a half reasonable job "Wringing" the VE to death . . . I think the biggest mistake design wise was the E2 . . . . E2 should have coincided with VE2 and the market may have been a tad more ready for "Fairy Lights"

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I really think if HSV did an interior update on the E1 and saved the E2 for later on, it would've been one hell of a car. No fancy bodykit, an LS3 powertrain and an interior that might be gimicky in function but didn't appear so year 2000 spec. Couple that with a limited run of either a 427 or supercharger and you can guess the rest!

What HSV should do is release an Omega spec car with an LS3 in it....

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Originally Posted by SilverVH

And to prove my point, hows this for a great idea.

Let's fit an EDI to our cars that will monitor tyre pressures, g-forces and combine it with motec software to analyse it all whilst having the in-built GPS pinpoint and record laptimes if you are at a racetrack.

All that is useless shit and a gimmick if HSV aren't serious about enhancing the mechanical side of it to separate itself from a family car. No oil cooler to be seen, how can it be taken seriously. What are HSV thinking? That the owners are going to take their family on a Sunday drive around Bathurst for a picnic?

Give me a break...

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Bang on there . . . The EDI has even more stuff than you see on the surface if you actually keep looking into it. . . but FFS HSV . . . give us half a decent car to match. . . Dont FEED US LIFE CHOOKS . . we are not morons . . . err well most of us arent!!! . . .

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Originally Posted by SilverVH

And to prove my point, hows this for a great idea.

Let's fit an EDI to our cars that will monitor tyre pressures, g-forces and combine it with motec software to analyse it all whilst having the in-built GPS pinpoint and record laptimes if you are at a racetrack.

All that is useless shit and a gimmick if HSV aren't serious about enhancing the mechanical side of it to separate itself from a family car. No oil cooler to be seen, how can it be taken seriously. What are HSV thinking? That the owners are going to take their family on a Sunday drive around Bathurst for a picnic?

Give me a break...

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Maybe they're thinking that anyone that actually does make use of race tracks is going to modify their car, replacing most of the components anyway :idea:

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Originally Posted by Martin_D

What HSV should do is release an Omega spec car with an LS3 in it....

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And build something like a COPO Camaro . . just to prove they are on our page!!!!

http://www.lsxtv.com/features/car-fe...-at-bradenton/

. . . so many opportunities HSV . . . embrace all Market segments . . . and you will WIN!!!

I think HSV are now in the same position FPV was in 2008, they are at the mercy of the donar products, both car and powertrain, engine wise they are now outgunned by both the S/C 5.0 and I6T, but there is nothing they can do about it at the price points the GT, F6, Clubsport and GTS play at. The same situation FPV were in with the 5.4 in 2008.

Its hard to react to competition when you are a niche market supplier and cant engineer and manufacture in house to address the shortcomings.

I think HSV do understand their market, they just cant react the way they want to.

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Originally Posted by nailit

And build something like a COPO Camaro . . just to prove they are on our page!!!!

http://www.lsxtv.com/features/car-fe...-at-bradenton/

. . . so many opportunities HSV . . . embrace all Market segments . . . and you will WIN!!!

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now your talking,

less gadgets,pritty stuff and weight.

Then jam in some big arse horsepower.

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Originally Posted by 4VMan

I think HSV are now in the same position FPV was in 2008, they are at the mercy of the donar products, both car and powertrain, engine wise they are now outgunned by both the S/C 5.0 and I6T, but there is nothing they can do about it at the price points the GT, F6, Clubsport and GTS play at. The same situation FPV were in with the 5.4 in 2008.

Its hard to react to competition when you are a niche market supplier and cant engineer and manufacture in house to address the shortcomings.

I think HSV do understand their market, they just cant react the way they want to.

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What!!!! . . . How long has the LSA been in the GM arsenal. . . . its a general production item in the CTSV with a "Wet Sump' and they run down the Cadilac Production line just like a Cruze Harch does in Adelaide alongside a Redline SSV Wagon. . . with no interuptions whatsoever

Are we making far to bigger deal about simple stuff like this at Holden?HSV . . YES!! . . .

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Originally Posted by nailit

What!!!! . . . How long has the LSA been in the GM arsenal. . . . its a general production item in the CTSV with a "Wet Sump' and they run down the Cadilac Production line just like a Cruze Harch does in Adelaide alongside a Redline SSV Wagon. . . with no interuptions whatsoever

Are we making far to bigger deal about simple stuff like this at Holden?HSV . . YES!! . . .

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LSA is too expensive to engineer and fit a price point, that's why the special will carry a significant price penalty.

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Originally Posted by 4VMan

LSA is too expensive to engineer and fit a price point, that's why the special will carry a significant price penalty.

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Sorry 4VMan . . . I will have to disagree with that . . . . the engine would carry a less that $3k penalty (over the LS3) as it entered the gate at Elizabeth . . . . and I very much doubt that there would be many reading this thread that wouldnt cop a $10 - 15k whack on a lease to have it.

. . . . actually. . . the Queue starts right here!!!!

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Originally Posted by nailit

Sorry 4VMan . . . I will have to disagree with that . . . . the engine would carry a less that $3k penalty (over the LS3) as it entered the gate at Elizabeth . . . . and I very much doubt that there would be many reading this thread that wouldnt cop a $10 - 15k whack on a lease to have it.

. . . . actually. . . the Queue starts right here!!!!

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Yes, 3K in the gate means 10K at the counter, then the ammortisation of all the ADR compliance, Crast testing, engineering etc, the impact would be closer to 25K on RRP.

Look at the Miami costs for FPV, nearly 40 mill, the way they save money is import container loads of parts and make 40% here then assemble the engine locally, HSV dont have an engine assembly line so they are bound by what comes in a crate.

Im sure you will get an LSA powered product this year but it will be a special low vol run and it will be priced well over 110k..

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Originally Posted by nailit

Sorry 4VMan . . . I will have to disagree with that . . . . the engine would carry a less that $3k penalty (over the LS3) as it entered the gate at Elizabeth . . . . and I very much doubt that there would be many reading this thread that wouldnt cop a $10 - 15k whack on a lease to have it.

. . . . actually. . . the Queue starts right here!!!!

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It's not just the cost of the engine but the engineering to certify that the rest of the car can handle the increase in power and other changes associated with it

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Originally Posted by steve_t

It's not just the cost of the engine but the engineering to certify that the rest of the car can handle the increase in power and other changes associated with it

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Exactly right.

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Originally Posted by steve_t

It's not just the cost of the engine but the engineering to certify that the rest of the car can handle the increase in power and other changes associated with it

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and thats what the extra $7 - $12k or so is for!!! . . . .

Look at it like this . . . A GTS is $90K RRP in man with basics . ,. . add another $15k . . . get a good deal . . . and whammo. . . there you have it!!! . . . under $100K

But because GM Holden in Aus have this remote privately owned separate company doing our "Specials" for us . . . the incremental pricing jabs along the food chain drive things out of many budgets . . . .

This will probably have too be looked long and hard at by Fishernmans Bend in the not to distant future . . . it was a good idea in 1980 with Brock. . . and still a good idea in 1988 with TWR . . . but over the past few years as the Euro's and others have entered the Marketplace with more affordable Luxury and Performance. . . Holden will be "Reviewing" this part of there Company and its available profitability for the Brand AND affordabililty for the punter . . . and they will then make decisions to ensure Cars continue to roll down the assembly line at Elisabeth . . . something they must attend too. . . regardless of other entities that think they know better

As I have said in an earlier postin this thread . . GM in the States do not have (or Need) a HSV or equivalent to sell Cars

That's all nice wishful thinking Nailit, and if our market was bigger it would make sense for Holden to take the operations back, but you and i know its not going to happen. Also HSV (or any car manufacturer) dont pass on aditional costs "at cost", it gets marginalised up, so 15K at cost is double that at RRP. There is no way you'll see a LSA powered car under 100k, happy if im wrong but W427 should have taught us something. Im getting a feeling of DeJaVu with this special if it happens.