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There's a difference between a necessity and a nice to have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smitty
Supporting agricultural industry = good
Supporting bogan pride = bad
I'd love to think that if I couldn't be competitive I could rely on the govt to prop me up. And yes, 40 years going on strong second generation manufacturing business so I have every right to bag out Holden being propped up.
According to http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=8400744 the Feds are kicking in $34 million, and the Vic govt haven't disclosed how much they are tipping in.Quote:
Originally Posted by 185iboy
Not sure if that $34 mil is part of the $103 mil, just saying that Govco are tipping funds into Ford (just as they have tipped funds previously into Holden, Ford, Toyota and Mitsi when they were still around).
Territory is actually the leader in its segment (medium SUV) coming in at the number spot ahead of the Kluger, Prado and Captiva.Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_D
Don't think that Holden is any better a position than Ford (they may actually be in a worse position than Ford) just because the Commodore sells more than the Falcon. Make no mistake, the Cruze sales are making up for the lost Commodore sales, however, they are only priced at half to two-thirds the price of a Commodore, whilst costing a similar amount to manufacture.
The Territory is around double the price of a base model Cruze, not to mention the majority of sales are the up spec models.
Territory might be sales leader in Australia, but thats it, the Prade, Kluger and Captiva are sold in many countries around the world so the development costs are spreaad over much higher volumes. The Territory is the most endangered product made in Australia. Ford makes a number of SUVs designed in AMerica and Europe that sell in much bigger volumes. Alan Mullaly has a stated policy of moving to global platforms and this handout from the government only keeps the Falcon going to 2016. At some point it is going to need a major redesign and there is buckleys chance of Ford HQ approving the budget for a new Falcon when it is not even selling 20,000 sedans a year. Convincing the Aust Gov to kick in $34M to keep the production lines going is one thing but I can't see the Fed government kicking in cubic dollars for a full redesign (in the manner of the EA or AU update) or even a major upgrade (BA or FG style).Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionking
To Smitty, big deal if Holden or Ford shut shop in Australia. We won't be walking if they don't make cars, they will import Tauruses and Malibus in place of Falcons and Commodores. As for V8s? Well that will be yet another aspect of Australia's cultural history that comes to an end. Many cultural aspects surrounding V8 Holdens (and Fords for that matter) have nearly disappeared in the wider community. Be it because of high petrol prices, road safety, police enforcement or changing buyer tastes, things have changed in Australia. 40 years ago if you imagined the average Australian family getting into their car you would think of large sedan. Nowadays what sort of car do you think of when imagining the average Australian family hopping into their car? Me, I think of an SUV. You will be surprised at how few Australians will actually give a stuff about whether Holden or Ford builds cars in this country, they wouldn't missed after the initial hoo-haa.
Cheers, Matthew
On average, how many times getting one's knickers in a twist does it take for a diehard Ford or Holden fan to accept he/she has no influence on corporate machinations? These are professional executives who know how to squeeze dollars from shareholders, govts, investors, banks, et al. They aren't brand partisan, although they would have you believe they are. They are loyal to power and salary, feeding an ego, nothing more.
Be a shame for Holden and Falcon to fold, because they really are a good product compared to American offerings, but maybe the American product is inferior for a reason and that value strategy will flow down, even to Oz. And yes I travel around the world a lot, so I experience a lot of different rides.
What I wanna know is why Holden didn't produce a new Torana and Ford a new Cortina in readiness for us baby boomers wanting to downsize? Something must be very much awry with the marketing depts in both camps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag530G
so say goodbye to a swag of R&D, innovation and engineering and technical knowhow in this country
and say hello to a whole lot of unemployed (and unemployable) ...
personally? I do NOT wish to support other countries and their economies ...
by buying vehicles made behind tariff and other protective walls. Nor do I want to
support a whole army of the unemployed. I do NOT like selling off the farm.
My vote goes to the govt which supports us and Australian industry including amongst others -
the mining manufacturing agricultural and automotive sectors.
I just wish we had the guts to do what the yanks had done about imports.....
The Terri is only the sales leader because the Captiva split into separate figures for the 5 and the 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lionking
Errr I don't think any of the Ford"num nuts" want to see Holden's demise!! What an Idiot statement!!!!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Frankster_P
And their dealers treating their customers like fools.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tre-Cool
Of course Holden will "ask" for a handout. What manufacturer wouldn't if the others get one! :idea:
Yes because they are 2 different cars. As much as I'm a Holden fan, let's not even try to compare the Korean Captiva to that of the Territory.Quote:
Originally Posted by ti0350
Spot on Davo its the Aussie way! :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by planetdavo
The way the federal government are keeping Qld afloat it would be a wonder if they have any left in the back pocket to help Holden or Ford out.......Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin_D
I'm sure Holden are fine, we had 2 casuals in at work last year who were both ex Holden, both got offered a very lucrative redundancy payout including a bottom line markup price on anything in the Holden lineup. So unless the government is funding redundancies or the like seems unlikely there is need to worry
That's actually a big problem for Ford, imo. - their cars are good, their dealers are atrocious!Quote:
Originally Posted by TaiKava
If a business can't be compete with local and foreign car makers, unfortunately they should be put to the scrapheap. Their cars are either not good enough quality wise (or even aren't the right kind of car for today), their customer service is too poor, or the prices associated with the cars are too much. This goes for any local manufacturer. Holden, Ford or Toyota.
It was bloody silly for Holden to building a "Pontiac G8" for less than what they were selling the same equiped Commodore domestically. If what they are building domestically costs what it does, yet they are able to product a LHD car complying with US regulations, sending it to the over side of the world and STILL offering it for a lower price, you know someone is pulling a dodgy somewhere in GM. We either should get the same pricing as the Yanks, or people will head elsewhere.
You can talk about "cultural significance", but in reality a business is a business, the entire game is about providing a product for profit. If that isn't the aim of a manufacturer, they go bankrupt. GM went bankrupt, Ford didn't. I see that is a fundament difference between the thinking of the two brands in the 2000s.
Sadly, I feel that the 2008 bailout (this includes GMH too as they got an exorbiant line of credit from government) will be to GM as what the 1980 bailout was to Chysler.