Supercharged HSV this year?....I say yes.

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Originally Posted by RobSS

Interesting. The LSA is only $3100 more than an LS3 at the Jegs website.

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One must ask themselves with all these oem blown engines out there now. How much is harrop and the like making off the kits as cream


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Originally Posted by macca_779

One must ask themselves with all these oem blown engines out there now. How much is harrop and the like making off the kits as cream


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Answer is simple
SH!TLOADS
But then I don't know there R&D costs

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Originally Posted by macca_779

One must ask themselves with all these oem blown engines out there now. How much is harrop and the like making off the kits as cream


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Damn fine product though Macca!
Cheers, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by BEARWOOD

how would you go trying to drop that straight into, lets say a VE? Obviously freight wouldn't be cheap either.

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Its got me wondering.

People will always make money out of enthusiasts, be it Harrop, HSV, Autotechnique or whoever. Enthusiasts often think with passion rather than logic. "Logic" would dictate many things available for cars to be an utter waste of hard earned money...
The same "flaws" can be applied to this question Pickles posed. Some will see this engine as absolutely essential, and others will see the current options as entirely adequate.
With HSV's history, they bang out something special every now and then, if the numbers add up. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in something limited edition and pricey. People are dreaming if they expect this engine to be available in something relatively "affordable". See earlier passion rather than logic comment.

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Originally Posted by steve_t

One word answers all - cost

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Clearly you have completely missed the point of my post.

JJW

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

People will always make money out of enthusiasts, be it Harrop, HSV, Autotechnique or whoever. Enthusiasts often think with passion rather than logic. "Logic" would dictate many things available for cars to be an utter waste of hard earned money...
The same "flaws" can be applied to this question Pickles posed. Some will see this engine as absolutely essential, and others will see the current options as entirely adequate.
With HSV's history, they bang out something special every now and then, if the numbers add up. I wouldn't be surprised to see it in something limited edition and pricey. People are dreaming if they expect this engine to be available in something relatively "affordable". See earlier passion rather than logic comment.

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The problem is that Australia does not have enough 'enthusiasts' to keep Holden up and running. HSV is reliant on Holden. Holden goes and HSV has no basis to build on.

Holden/HSV is currently being out gunned by Ford/FPV. I would not buy a GTS with less power and less potential from cheap mods that is dearer than a GT.

The production costs associated with a higher output engine are a minor fraction of the markup we see on the show room floor.

The R&D costs are near zero. The LS9 etc is already designed, tooled, built, reliable and available. You don't have to be a rocket scentist to throw a stronger clutch, off the shelf, some bigger brakes off the shelf..............all these parts are off the shelf items that exist and are ready to be bolted on.

Don't kid yourself.....the GTS is just an overpriced taxi with some cheap bolt ons.

JJW

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Originally Posted by feistl

Bit of a slap in the face to all the buyers of HSV who paid top dollar only to have a new "better" model sell for less. Would kill the resale on the older models... Plus apparently a lot of HSV buyers are not first time buyers (EG the guys buying HSV have bought them previously).

As stated, their not having any problems selling cars now so why change the formula?

Plus if the bring out the supercharged version now, what are they going to top it with next year? You cant keep increasing power forever as the driveline wont handle it. Expect only "minor" power increases in the coming years.

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What about the slap in the face home owners in the United States copped recently? Should we feel sorry for them and keep buying at inflated prices?

Inflated prices are good in the short term for rcent purchasers but ultimately HSV is pricing themselves out of the market......and then the bubble has to burst.

You could see it a mile off with GTHO's a few years ago.

I am calling BS with the longevity of HSV pricing in the medium term.

We see similar cars for a fraction of the cost in the US and other western markets.

I am sure HSV are making killer profit at the current pricing but am douting its sustainability. In fact, the whole Australian car manufacturing market needs to be rationalised to have any future.

Australian economy is at least 5 years from concrete recovery and now would be a great time for HSV to bust out a grass roots value for money car.

JJW

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Originally Posted by JJW501

What about the slap in the face home owners in the United States copped recently? Should we feel sorry for them and keep buying at inflated prices?

Inflated prices are good in the short term for rcent purchasers but ultimately HSV is pricing themselves out of the market......and then the bubble has to burst.

You could see it a mile off with GTHO's a few years ago.

I am calling BS with the longevity of HSV pricing in the medium term.

We see similar cars for a fraction of the cost in the US and other western markets.

I am sure HSV are making killer profit at the current pricing but am douting its sustainability. In fact, the whole Australian car manufacturing market needs to be rationalised to have any future.

Australian economy is at least 5 years from concrete recovery and now would be a great time for HSV to bust out a grass roots value for money car.

JJW

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I disagree. If anything relative to 10 years ago the cars are cheaper and better equipped. A VTII GTS was just shy of 100k on the road back then.


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I wouldn't be putting money on a supercharged HSV this year.

I would be putting money on HSV doing something special for VF. Will be worth the wait in my opinion.

Anyone who thinks the FPV motor will be easily outdone is fooling themselves. It's potential is enormous and if Ford would release the shackles from FPV they would rewrite the rule book on performance sedans. Don't hold your breath for a HO, but limited edition models will be seen from both camps this year. Don't hold your breath for power changes.

VF will be worth the wait if you are a HSV fan. Bring on 2013.

Just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by JJW501

Clearly you have completely missed the point of my post.

JJW

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Originally Posted by JJW501

The problem is that Australia does not have enough 'enthusiasts' to keep Holden up and running. HSV is reliant on Holden. Holden goes and HSV has no basis to build on.

Holden/HSV is currently being out gunned by Ford/FPV. I would not buy a GTS with less power and less potential from cheap mods that is dearer than a GT.

The production costs associated with a higher output engine are a minor fraction of the markup we see on the show room floor.

The R&D costs are near zero. The LS9 etc is already designed, tooled, built, reliable and available. You don't have to be a rocket scentist to throw a stronger clutch, off the shelf, some bigger brakes off the shelf..............all these parts are off the shelf items that exist and are ready to be bolted on.

Don't kid yourself.....the GTS is just an overpriced taxi with some cheap bolt ons.

JJW

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Urgh... we have the same discussion on this forum over and over again every 6 months it seems. Anyone who thinks that it's as easy as dropping in an LSA or LS9 plus clutch and brakes without having to go through the expense and rigmarole of testing for ADR's etc is clearly in the dark. The cost needs to be amortised across the units made/sold and if there aren't many, it's not worth the exercise.

Also, while you might not buy a GTS with less power and less potential... than a GT, there are plenty that will and do. We all know that the GT has an amazing engine and is ridiculously good value but are the sales figures reflecting this? And at the end of the day for these companies, that's what counts.

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Originally Posted by JJW501

The problem is that Australia does not have enough 'enthusiasts' to keep Holden up and running. HSV is reliant on Holden. Holden goes and HSV has no basis to build on.

Holden/HSV is currently being out gunned by Ford/FPV. I would not buy a GTS with less power and less potential from cheap mods that is dearer than a GT.

The production costs associated with a higher output engine are a minor fraction of the markup we see on the show room floor.

The R&D costs are near zero. The LS9 etc is already designed, tooled, built, reliable and available. You don't have to be a rocket scentist to throw a stronger clutch, off the shelf, some bigger brakes off the shelf..............all these parts are off the shelf items that exist and are ready to be bolted on.

Don't kid yourself.....the GTS is just an overpriced taxi with some cheap bolt ons.

JJW

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You're wrong...HSV is not being "outgunned"...certainly not by FPV anyway. No more Holden?.....well Falcon & Commodore may both go, but Falcon will definitely go first. LS9.....wrong again....it will probably be LSA, if not locally developed.
Your comment re GTS is simply rubbish.
Cheers, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Pickles

You're wrong...HSV is not being "outgunned"...certainly not by FPV anyway. No more Holden?.....well Falcon & Commodore may both go, but Falcon will definitely go first. LS9.....wrong again....it will probably be LSA, if not locally developed.
Your comment re GTS is simply rubbish.
Cheers, Pickles.

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Might want to rethink that - the AFR today quotes a GM exec who says that Commodore is finished within 6 years - has to make cars that the 21st buyer wants.

So....if HSV are currently outselling FPV, making more profit, and generating more sales....why do they need to change anything?
Dont fix something that aint broke :teach:

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Originally Posted by Carby

Might want to rethink that - the AFR today quotes a GM exec who says that Commodore is finished within 6 years - has to make cars that the 21st buyer wants.

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I'm aware of that....unfortunately........I still say Falcon will go first......but, I hear what you say, & of course, it ain't good news.....for anyone.
Cheers, Pickles.