Pedders XA coilover shocks repeat failure?

Just an update on my car after talking to the new installers. Turns out that when my suspension was originally fitted they fitted it with zero preload. As in when the car is up on the hoist and the suspension droops the spring is very loose. So loose to the point that the spring drops 20mm away from the top spring plate. So every time I go over a bump the spring unloads and allows the shocker to float and move around. When the weight of the car comes back down and the shocker compresses the shaft slides in on a slight angle and causes the seals to wear. After looking at the design of the shock if you adjust the ride height via the lower nut you cannot reduce the shock travel to the point where the shock bottoms out. You are changing the height by adjusting the sleeve connected to the lower ball joint. If you change the ride height by compressing the spring via the top nuts you will reduce the piston stroke to the point where the shock will bottom out. This is how it was explained to me by the new fitters. I still have my concerns as to whether this is a long term fix as I think the shock is still not suited to the car.
Cheers. Tim.

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Originally Posted by Timson

Just an update on my car after talking to the new installers. Turns out that when my suspension was originally fitted they fitted it with zero preload. As in when the car is up on the hoist and the suspension droops the spring is very loose. So loose to the point that the spring drops 20mm away from the top spring plate. So every time I go over a bump the spring unloads and allows the shocker to float and move around. When the weight of the car comes back down and the shocker compresses the shaft slides in on a slight angle and causes the seals to wear. After looking at the design of the shock if you adjust the ride height via the lower nut you cannot reduce the shock travel to the point where the shock bottoms out. You are changing the height by adjusting the sleeve connected to the lower ball joint. If you change the ride height by compressing the spring via the top nuts you will reduce the piston stroke to the point where the shock will bottom out. This is how it was explained to me by the new fitters. I still have my concerns as to whether this is a long term fix as I think the shock is still not suited to the car.
Cheers. Tim.

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Didn't mean to dislike this post my computer has a mind of its own.

No worries, I have done that same thing in the past.

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Originally Posted by 04cv8

I know this thread is mainly about VEs being fitted with XAs and failing, but I've had these fitted to my 04 monaro for 2 years now and haven't had an issue. When i first had them fitted i wasnt happy with the ride height so i took it back in to have them drop it as far as they could go, they actually ended up removing the bottom collar, allowing the collar that holds the spring to sit as low as it could go (2 years no issues). Judging from previous threads on the XAs and this thread it seems that anything pre VE no issues. Were the Pedders XA coilovers produced before the VE was released? and what was the difference between the Extreme XAs and the XAs? were the Extreme XAs a revised product trying to eleminate the failures when fitted to VE?

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Mine is a VY. Rear springs collapsed in about a year from memory. I also know of a few other sets that have gone in a lot shorter time frame too.
I kept winding the height up every couple of months due to the spring sagging. Eventually got to the point where it was at maximum height but all the coils were binding and it was way too low for me to drive... this was a rare case apparently :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by VRIIClubby

Read again buddy..

"Those "branded" springs would make any shock feel like shit!" King Springs and Pedders are SHIT, made from crap quality steel and components on the cheap. thats a fact.

Not once did I say Monroe was crap, and you cant "Directly compare" a Koni/Bilsteins setup on a VL to the VE which is what SS317 said his Koni setup was on....need I continue? please read the whole comment mate.

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I read your post 4 times before I posted my comment mate. Albert Einstein would have had trouble working out what you were trying to say...

It's one thing to say something's crap because you used it and didn't like it - it's your opinion. But saying brands such as Pedders and King springs use "crap quality steel components" you must have a very credible source that has told you the grade of steel being used?

So tell us, has your credible source told you which suspension is made using quality parts? If so, what brand would that be?

There always used to be the rumour that all the cheaper, mainstream springs come from the same factory... but regardless, IMO they aren't as good as those that aren't so common (Lovells, Dobinson, H&R, Eibach etc). Kings and Pedders just seem easier to source for average Joe that doesn't want to go to a specialist suspension shop for some reason.

2 years with my XA's and no problems, some days I wish I never installed them due to the rubbish sydney roads, then others when I take it for a wrap through the national park and I love them...

From what I understand, they are based on the Buddyclub budget spec coilovers with a fat boy spec spring and suitable mounting bracket made up.

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Originally Posted by Timson

Just an update on my car after talking to the new installers. Turns out that when my suspension was originally fitted they fitted it with zero preload. As in when the car is up on the hoist and the suspension droops the spring is very loose. So loose to the point that the spring drops 20mm away from the top spring plate. So every time I go over a bump the spring unloads and allows the shocker to float and move around. When the weight of the car comes back down and the shocker compresses the shaft slides in on a slight angle and causes the seals to wear. After looking at the design of the shock if you adjust the ride height via the lower nut you cannot reduce the shock travel to the point where the shock bottoms out. You are changing the height by adjusting the sleeve connected to the lower ball joint. If you change the ride height by compressing the spring via the top nuts you will reduce the piston stroke to the point where the shock will bottom out. This is how it was explained to me by the new fitters. I still have my concerns as to whether this is a long term fix as I think the shock is still not suited to the car.
Cheers. Tim.

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Does that mean you were driving it with 0 preload as well? I assume you are talking about the setting on the shock? Do you know the correct way to install them. I only ask because I have a set to put in my senator.

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

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Originally Posted by kayman

Does that mean you were driving it with 0 preload as well? I assume you are talking about the setting on the shock? Do you know the correct way to install them. I only ask because I have a set to put in my senator.

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When I say zero preload I didn't mean a number figure. There are two sets of rings or nuts on the rear assembly. The top ones set the preload of the spring, you need a certain amount of preload to hold the spring captive when the suspension is at full droop. I can find out what that setting is this afternoon. The bottom ring allows you to adjust the ride height and does not affect spring preload or shocker stroke. The news guys installing Pedders stuff in my area have told me that they have seen a lot of cars coming in where the customer has wound the top ring all the way up to lower the suspension. This causes spring bind and shortens the shock stroke to a point where they can fail. The dial adjustment on the shocks control the speed of the oil travelling through the shock. So when they are set to low the oil travels through fast, when they are set high the oil travels slower. That's my limited understanding of it anyway. I have mine set at halfway on the rear and full soft on the front for everyday driving.
Cheers, Tim.

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Originally Posted by Drizt

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

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I definitely wouldn't say it's a harsh ride at all. Yes it's firmer than stock, but for how low the car is, it's very comfortable. I have not been in a Spring and shock combo VE that is as low as mine and feels anywhere near as comfortable...

If you want stock comfort, don't lower your car.

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Originally Posted by Drizt

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

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Been in a Lexus IS-F with big $$$ KW coil overs and it drove like it was on a cloud. Same with my mates 200sx on Fortune Auto C/O's, so no it doesn't automatically mean it will rattle your fillings out. The dampening/rebound setting will ultimately dictate this. Plus what your definition of harsh ride is.

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Originally Posted by calais190

I definitely wouldn't say it's a harsh ride at all. Yes it's firmer than stock, but for how low the car is, it's very comfortable. I have not been in a Spring and shock combo VE that is as low as mine and feels anywhere near as comfortable...

If you want stock comfort, don't lower your car.

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I've had lowered cars and I love the look of them but they are very impractical and get tiring rather fast for various reasons (like having to pick and choose which drive ways are accessible, which roads are too bumpy etc.).

What I would like though would be a bit more control on hard cornering etc. I'm assuming coilovers are overkill if you dont want to overly lower the car ?

I resemble this
15,000 k's no problems
Stu

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Originally Posted by SS317

Yeah no worries.

Its fine to say the XA's are no good and so on but at the end of the day this dose nothing for the guys that have spent there cash and are stuck with them, I for one am happy with the the way my Ve performs with them and im only concerned with the failures guys are having.

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Originally Posted by Drizt

I'm sensing a theme that coilovers = harsh ride ?

Are there coilovers that give a good ride or equivalent to stock ?

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The lower the car is, the stiffer the spring need to be as the suspension has less travel to absorb any given bump or pothole, it has to absord the same force over a shorter distance so needs a higher spring rate. A stiffer spring (higher rate) doesn't compress as easily so bumps in the road are more easily transfer to the chassis of the car, the higher the spring rate the harder it is for the shock to control the spring, a shocks job is to dissipate the energy that is absorbed by the spring, a higher spring rate means the shock has to do more work over a shorter distance, probably not a job for cheap shocks.
With coilovers the spring travel doesnt change with ride height, you simply move the spring seat up and down (or the bottom of the strut tube in the case of Pedders XAs) so the spring travel is the same regardless of height however because cheap coilovers are design to be adjustable in height they probably have a lot less travel than a lowered spring shock combo because the manufacturers of such coilovers takes into account that some people will set the car up as low as they can and the suspension needs to bottom out before the tyres contact the body or the body hits the ground. With expensive coilover the manufactures assume you are setting the car up for best handling rather than to be as close to the ground as possible so the design the setups differently. I have spoken to a well respected manufacturer of custom coilovers that primarily does rally and Targa type cars about a custom set up to replace what I have now, he said unless I have at least 60mm suspension travel at the front and 80mm at the rear as a minimum he is not interested.