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Thats what I could never understand - They go to all they trouble of making a 4 cylinder Falcon, and do next to no maketing for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by bozodos
Governments taking away the tariffs was signing the death warrant for the local industry as well. Tariffs should have been retained.
Yes I am involved with union activity / negotiations at work, and unlike what quite a lot of you right wingers drone on about, have not seen this "money for nothing" greed?
I think it's laughable for anyone who is not either independently wealthy or in control of the means of production to be opposed to unions and their main aim which is to give the workers a fair go and to stop them being exploited.
It usually the rich that carry on with this sort of crap - look at recent comments from Gina Rinehart for example.
I'd also like to see a direct proven link between unionisation and job losses.
Heard this on the radio at work. Very sad. The population can no longer support a car built only fro Oz really with all the competition that is coming in. Look how far Hyundai have come since they started here. The VE and VF is where holder have started to take on the features of imports technology. The Falcon too lagged behind and has now lost the race. Hopefully some of the blue oval brigade can come across and help prop up VF sales and maybe the falling dollar will push imported cars up in price and the cost of our exported VF's down enough to make enough of a a difference to keep the Commodore afloat.
Nothing to do with this thread but one little example I can relate from first hand experience. Construction job. Big job, lots of guys housed in a camp. Camp builders stuffed up and quadrangles didn't drain properly so within a couple of days the camp was unliveable because mulch and plants began to rot. Workers due to be stood down with no accommodation available. No chance to use machines, just too wet. Local landscaper offers to help with mostly unemployed locals and a few long termers all using shovels and wheelbarrows. All being done cost plus so the landscaper was making 15% and paying the usual wages for landscaping in the area. All going really well. BLF stepped in. This job is part of the main construction work (no it wasn't) and signs up all these guys into the union. Maybe $300 each in dues? Job is stopped while it goes to AIRC. Two days later the rain stops. Bobcats move in and job done in a couple of days. Case thrown out of AIRC but no work to go to. Blokes back on unemployment but now with less $ than before as their wages for the day were less than union dues. Good job! I was an employee and employer on the construction job and watched this debacle unfold.Quote:
Originally Posted by bozodos
Got plenty more but not for here. Oh and by the way it looks to me as if your head is as firmly in the sand as those you are criticising for being anti union.
On Ford I am really sorry to see them go. Just like I was sorry Mister Bitchy up and left. There are no winners in this. I know a few of the FPV engineers or maybe former FPV engineers if they have left in the last few years. Good guys with passion, like most in their field.
True Gina is bad news, However look at the side where I am locally .... Glaxo - Union got them great wages - 80K a year for packing pills - that's 3M in wages extra over normal wage rate.Quote:
Originally Posted by bozodos
Now all the pill pack workers will loose their jobs! so 0 x 0 = still nothing now. Well done medals all round I say.
So when "we" need medicine with tablets it will now come from some 3rd world country.
Not a great out come is it ?
I have grown up to love both the falcon and commodore. From time to time, one has been a ill better than the other and vice versa. But they both had soul.
For a to b transportation a Hyundai or Kia does the job, about as exciting as eating your Brussels sprouts. But they do the job.
Ford closing its doors takes the soul out of Aussie motoring, Holden will be soon to follow. But in this day and age, no one wants soul, they just want throw away.. a to b transportation.
Us enthusiasts are a dying breed
I am not independently wealthy nor in control of production at work, however I have witnessed first hand the **** show that the union has put on trying to negiotate a new agreement. Full of hollow promises and straight out lies and mis-information. To the point that a heap of blokes have pulled all ties with union.Quote:
Originally Posted by bozodos
My department kindly rejected union offers of help, and we get a better agreement every time.
All most unions seem to do is keep some people in a job that they don't deserve....
Although I'd love to put the boots into the Unions and how they are run by crooks, thugs, bikies and other such money hungry scallywags that do more striking than working, I don't believe that they have anything to do with Fords demise. The parent companies lack of understanding of global model input from Australia and utter arrogance that Ford AU could make a better product than the Shit they were making at the time (read: BA) was the beginning of the end locally. Then a series of mistakes (Boss motor) and a refusal to listen to public / media criticism on big issues like seat height / driving position, (rear) Tyre width, handling issues etc. My very first car was an XC Falcon and although I've had many Holdens and Fords, probably my favorite car ever was my BA XR 6 Turbo. Such a beautiful engine. Sad day for sure.
An icon is dead. Very sad day and I do feel for all the employees. I really hope this isn't the beginning of the end for holden local manufacturing too.
so no more falcons? I mean those beastly fpv straight 6 turbos and 302 boss? Really, say it aint so!?!!!
now while I'm not saying that every union is always even handed (because nothing is ever completely black and white, and mjrandom you may recall that the BLF was 1) an isolated exception, and 2) they were de registered)
I think that some of you should read up on what unions actually do and how they go about it - nobody declares off the cuff stop works or strikes these days. The fact that the Nurses and Ambos have had to RESORT to industrial action to get a fair go are two examples I can think of off the top of my head of the ongoing relevance of trade unions. Do you all try and blame them for the drop in the retail industry as well ?(lol). How many of you lot work on agreements or awards that were negotiated by one? ESPECIALLY the mining crowd.
Although it is becoming obvious that quite a few of you would like us to have an underclass of working poor a la the USA so that we can keep having cheap things made while others earn ridiculous amounts.
I've had employers trot out the "oh we can't afford to have unionized employees we'd go broke" excuse as a cover to hide behind when creating unfair agreements and conditions.
OT, I hope this does not shake local confidence in the new Holden product.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bozodos
BLF isn't de-rregistered in all states. And my experiences are not limited to them though all are construction / metals unions. And as for para 2 you are totally and completely incorrect. Have a look at any bargaining period lately. Unions apply for the right to strike at any time on a rolling 7 day basis. Absolute bullshit. Not all unions are the same but there are enough out there to taint the entire 'cause'.
I could cite many more examples of union bullying and thuggery. How many of you have had someone spit in your face because you denied them access to a site they had no legal right to enter, then shouldered you into a wall and kicked you? Witnesses, sadly no. Any normal reaction would have seen that escalate well out of hand so we bend over and take it up the arse. All in the name of good industrial relations. Give me a break.
You can have your opinion on unions and the greater good you think they do. I will live in the real world and tolerate them as I have to.
The real question is:
Now how are we going to keep all the dickheads out of Holdens?
I'll put my hand up here, not quite in the face but I copped it from more than one.Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrandom
OT - looking down at the similar threads from as far back as '07:
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...Close-It-Doors
agree on the unions.... thuggery without education.
speak from experience, left a little chip on my shoulder
lots of blf heavies infiltrated construction and industry. easy to spot back then to...... no brains and socks pulled over their tracky daks LOL