Supercharged HSV? - Part 2

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Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

The difference between us is that you believe what HSV tell you, they are very good at marketing Ill give them that, building a car using overseas design and imported parts and advertising it as an engineering masterpiece is an art

3.5 years? Politics and red tape

What will be interesting is what will spares do with the excess parts, ADR mandates that 10 years worth of spares be available for a model? Cant remember the exact legislation.

100K car and it doesnt even have a front strut bar? :hmmm:

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Clearly you don't understand how car manufacturers operate. Luckily I worked with one of the guys that spent almost a year on the tuning of HSV's LS2 when they had it. Interesting fact, they were 297kw because that's all they could get out of them with the safety margins in place. HSV would have had a small group of engineers working on the LSA project and not much else. It's entirely feasible that it took them 3.5 years to get the cooling alone sorted when that team had to do everything else as well.

Think about doing hot weather testing only to run out of hot weather (seasonal changes). That's another 9 months before you can go at it again. Even on a cool day my car gets too hot after a bunch of laps, which would be unacceptable for a manufacturer, so it's obvious they had challenges.

Have you ever measured the compression flex between the towers of a VE? You'll probably find a strut brace has very little effect. It's marginal on the pre-VE models, let alone the VE which is much stiffer. Remember that little bolt on strut braces will only help reduce any compression flex between the towers.

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Originally Posted by Evman

Clearly you don't understand how car manufacturers operate. Luckily I worked with one of the guys that spent almost a year on the tuning of HSV's LS2 when they had it. Interesting fact, they were 297kw because that's all they could get out of them with the safety margins in place. HSV would have had a small group of engineers working on the LSA project and not much else. It's entirely feasible that it took them 3.5 years to get the cooling alone sorted when that team had to do everything else as well.

Think about doing hot weather testing only to run out of hot weather (seasonal changes). That's another 9 months before you can go at it again. Even on a cool day my car gets too hot after a bunch of laps, which would be unacceptable for a manufacturer, so it's obvious they had challenges.

Have you ever measured the compression flex between the towers of a VE? You'll probably find a strut brace has very little effect. It's marginal on the pre-VE models, let alone the VE which is much stiffer. Remember that little bolt on strut braces will only help reduce any compression flex between the towers.

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I understand manufacturers very well, they will sell a car as much as the market can stomach and do it by cutting as much corners as they can on the features and service. Competition exists to ensure manufacturers compete to improve their product and service, no competition, they could legally sell you a painted turd and you would buy it up like its the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Tuning has always been conservative due to fuel quality, thats why after visiting a workshop tuner there is an instant 50hp gain. It takes 30 mins tops on the dyno for an experienced tuner, maybe less. Have you ever been to Nevada or Arizona in the middle of summer?

The Camaro and Commodore share the same zeta architecture, why does the Camaro get one and the Commodore doesnt despite paying more for less? Its effectively the same car underneath, its likely to be a $5 part tops

I cant wait to see this monster hitting the test track,but I highly doubt will see anything better than a low 4 second 0 to 100, not that that bad or anything.Its very good as it is a rear wheel drive car.People are just expecting too much.Its the nature of the beast.

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Originally Posted by Evman

Clearly you don't understand how car manufacturers operate. Luckily I worked with one of the guys that spent almost a year on the tuning of HSV's LS2 when they had it. Interesting fact, they were 297kw because that's all they could get out of them with the safety margins in place. HSV would have had a small group of engineers working on the LSA project and not much else. It's entirely feasible that it took them 3.5 years to get the cooling alone sorted when that team had to do everything else as well.

Think about doing hot weather testing only to run out of hot weather (seasonal changes). That's another 9 months before you can go at it again. Even on a cool day my car gets too hot after a bunch of laps, which would be unacceptable for a manufacturer, so it's obvious they had challenges.

Have you ever measured the compression flex between the towers of a VE? You'll probably find a strut brace has very little effect. It's marginal on the pre-VE models, let alone the VE which is much stiffer. Remember that little bolt on strut braces will only help reduce any compression flex between the towers.

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Thank You.
I ain't no HSV "Moll"(See how many HSV"sticker special" comments I've made?!).......but I can separate the sh.t from the clay........obviously, unlike some.
Like I said, I ain't no "Guru"......I simply ask that before you comment on the GTS, you find out the FACTS (what has REALLY gone into this car....what HSV themselves have done), before talking rubbish.
It's early days yet, BUT, the TRUE story of the real "development" of this car will eventually become known.......I know some of it now....., everybody will, eventually, & so, I AM STILL , TOTALLY confident to say.....this is the greatest "S.V." car, ever built in Aus.
Cheers, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

...and do it by cutting as much corners as they can...

The Camaro and Commodore share the same zeta architecture, why does the Camaro get one and the Commodore doesnt despite paying more for less? Its effectively the same car underneath, its likely to be a $5 part tops

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Because every cent counts, especially when you're on hard times. If you understood manufacturers you'd know that. Every now and then they'll have another small team of engineers go around the cars on the production line looking for things they can remove without affecting the car too much (remember the glove box light drama?). Saving $5 on a part that does absolutely nothing would be a gold mine for one of those engineers, considering most of the time they're looking for bolts/nuts/washers that cost less than a few cents.

Are you suggesting HSV should send their cars and a team of engineers across the globe every year so that can do continuous hot weather testing? Do you honestly think a relatively small company would budget that when they have the time to do it locally?

What do you do when cash is tight? Spend carefully. What do you do when cash is readily available? SPEND CAREFULLY.

Surely the heat factor is already known though from previous years?

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Originally Posted by team illucid

Surely the heat factor is already known though from previous years?

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I doubt HSV would have planned to use the LSA any sooner than in the VF. That is, 3.5 years ago they would have been given the final green light from the accountants. It's possible the cooling was done and dusted in 6 months for all we know, with the remainder of the engineering taking up the rest. Who cares? It wouldn't have meant the VF would arrive any sooner.

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Originally Posted by Evman

Because every cent counts, especially when you're on hard times. If you understood manufacturers you'd know that. Every now and then they'll have another small team of engineers go around the cars on the production line looking for things they can remove without affecting the car too much (remember the glove box light drama?). Saving $5 on a part that does absolutely nothing would be a gold mine for one of those engineers, considering most of the time they're looking for bolts/nuts/washers that cost less than a few cents.

Are you suggesting HSV should send their cars and a team of engineers across the globe every year so that can do continuous hot weather testing? Do you honestly think a relatively small company would budget that when they have the time to do it locally?

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Why should they do testing when the testing has already been done by GM powetrain overseas? Same platform, same engine, same trans, same diff, different panels and interior.

If every cent counts, why are they retesting whats already been tested? Or is it, call me cynical, to spend allocated budgets so as to obtain larger budgets in future? Jobs for mates?

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Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

Why should they do testing when the testing has already been done by GM powetrain overseas? Same platform, same engine, same trans, same diff, different panels and interior.

If every cent counts, why are they retesting whats already been tested? Or is it, call me cynical, to spend allocated budgets so as to obtain larger budgets in future?

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You are demonstrating by your posts mate, that you know absolutely NOTHING, repeat NOTHING....are you listening?.....about what went into the development of this car......you think HSV just used American stuff & put it into the Commodore.....is that what you think?...... Obviously it is.....in which case, you will eventually proven to be ....100% wrong.....when you care to establish the facts.
AAAHHHH, but I'm sorry...I just believe what HSV tell me.......yeah right.
Cheers, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

Why should they do testing when the testing has already been done by GM powetrain overseas? Same platform, same engine, same trans, same diff, different panels and interior.

If every cent counts, why are they retesting whats already been tested? Or is it, call me cynical, to spend allocated budgets so as to obtain larger budgets in future?

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Ahh ok I see what you were saying. I doubt the bosses of HSV would be willing to stamp HSV warranty on products they haven't tested themselves. They're putting the engine in the VF so they'd assume all responsibility. I can't see any manufacturer of anything (cars or otherwise) being willing to put an outsourced product in their own product without a full suit of compatibility tests to go with it. Murphy Law and all.

So the biggest thing I've gotten from this and the other thread is you cant argue/reason with stupidity.

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Originally Posted by Speedy Gonzales

100K car and it doesnt even have a front strut bar? :hmmm:

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If it needed it it would be on it.....

If it does low 4s, that’s plenty fast. The M5 and E63 are not bettering these times.
Even if the FPV is faster, it doesn't look that good from the outside and worse inside. The seating position is wrong and beside it being fast, it really is low rent.
In its current state, it would not take away buyers looking at a merc, BM or audi. The VE GTS would not have attracted these buyers either.
I feel this GTS is now different.

6 months ago I graduated and got my surgical privileges. For the last 6 months I've been thinking about a C63 or an R35 GTR.
If this GTS delivers something in between both these cars it will be a big hit. Appropriate for someone in their late 30s with kids like myself.
Clean lines and costing about 70-80K less than the C63 and R35.

It's a family sedan, low 4s would be awesome to shift nearly two tonnes.
I was in a mates Z06 back in 2006 and it ran a 3.8 - but a Corvette is a two seater, basically a race car...

As for local testing, remember the VB Commodore when they brought out the Opel Rekord and it broke in half!
Should they have just slapped a couple of lion badges on and said "It's alright, it was tested overseas" :booty:

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Originally Posted by stupotarnie

It called opinion. That's what forums are for. Do we all have to agree that this f#@kin ugly duckling is the next best thing since sliced bread?

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Of course not. Everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how wrong it is.

The problem is the same few people post negatively on just about every thing. What is the point. The saying goes they would probably complain during a ro#t!