VF SS/SSV Sportswagon not available - Order Possible??

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Originally Posted by jkgmh

Good thread that one !!!! :dance: No VF sportwagons on the list...1 x Tourer so far

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thats me :dance:

i was in a position before buying where my comfortable price range was right in the middle of the tourer and an SSV wagon. No SSv Manual literally forced my hand into the HSV and into a slightly uncomforble monthly repayment.

I was briefly in panic attack mode that there would be no Tourer manual either. Honestly if the tourer was auto only as well i probably would not have bough a commodore at all, previsouly i had an MY10 SSV wagon manual.

And suddenly the tone of another interesting thread turns for the worst.


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Originally Posted by planetdavo

You can think what you want, but you would be da fool for thinking it.
Wake up to the meaning of "commercial realities".
Introducing a manual WAGON with L77 is NOT an existing product in VF! The box might be "existing", the tailshaft might be "existing" etc etc, but they are only parts. They are the cheap bits.
Introducing this option would require at the bare minimum a new wagon specific main wiring harness, new ESP program, and a new round of engineering validation. Wagon needs a different harness to sedan, and the HSV one isn't suitable either as it's made for different options.
So, MILLIONS of dollars!
For a handful of sales. Divide that across what, a couple of hundred sales a year AT BEST? 200 sales for (unrealistically) "only" one million dollars development cost would be $5000 per car in the first year before costs are covered. Two million would be $5000 per car for two years before costs are covered. Three million would be $5000 per car for three years before costs are covered. And finally, whereas HSV can charge a healthy premium for their cars to redeem costs over a small sales projection, Holden CANNOT.
Don't think it would cost 3 million to launch a manual VF V8 wagon option?
Think again!!!

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Thanks. I appreciate the effort you've gone to in order to better explain your point, and I agree that you might be right. I hadn't considered the wiring loom etc. This is the sort of constructive answer I was hoping someone would provide; it's a bit of a shame that you had to top and tail it with abrasive language but on the other hand, I probably didn't help with my opening remarks in reply to you. For the good of the forum and this thread in particular, I won't make any further comment. Thanks again.

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Originally Posted by sjhugh

And suddenly the tone of another interesting thread turns for the worst.


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As Pauline Hanson would say "Please Explain?"

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Originally Posted by jkgmh

As Pauline Hanson would say "Please Explain?"

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I think it is directed at PD explanation
Not putting a manual in a wagon is absolute crap and pd explanation about this and that is crap...
It's the same bloody running gear as VE only interior and electronics changed inside

and considering the engine mangement and vehicle wiring looms are 2 ENTIRELY different systems...

If anything i think it's more due to the fact that the manual motors dont have the stupid DOD system in them. So they would need to have 2 different motors. (easily fixed if they put the bloody ls3 in)

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Originally Posted by Tre-Cool

If anything i think it's more due to the fact that the manual motors dont have the stupid DOD system in them. So they would need to have 2 different motors. (easily fixed if they put the bloody ls3 in)

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I think all engines now (L77) have DOD/AFM hardware in them, just that the manuals don't have it activated.

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Originally Posted by swingtan

I was referring to "How many of you guys buy a Holden Commodore new anyway - not many, I'll bet." not specifically Sportwagons......

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personally...one
plus 11 for work :)

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

You can think what you want, but you would be da fool for thinking it.
Wake up to the meaning of "commercial realities".
Introducing a manual WAGON with L77 is NOT an existing product in VF! The box might be "existing", the tailshaft might be "existing" etc etc, but they are only parts. They are the cheap bits.
Introducing this option would require at the bare minimum a new wagon specific main wiring harness, new ESP program, and a new round of engineering validation. Wagon needs a different harness to sedan, and the HSV one isn't suitable either as it's made for different options.
So, MILLIONS of dollars!
For a handful of sales. Divide that across what, a couple of hundred sales a year AT BEST? 200 sales for (unrealistically) "only" one million dollars development cost would be $5000 per car in the first year before costs are covered. Two million would be $5000 per car for two years before costs are covered. Three million would be $5000 per car for three years before costs are covered. And finally, whereas HSV can charge a healthy premium for their cars to redeem costs over a small sales projection, Holden CANNOT.
Don't think it would cost 3 million to launch a manual VF V8 wagon option?
Think again!!!

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Hardware like wiring harnesses surely could have been better thought out to save money, why not have a generic harness or at least a base harness with extensions to suit either manual or auto?
ESP would require work though, but surely in this day and age of computer modelling etc this is no longer a huge cost?
If it actually is millions of dollars to do, sadly this is why local manufacturings days are numbered.

I loved my auto SSV Wagon as it made getting blowies from dates/girls that i was seeing whilst driving that much easier & will therefore be one of the main reasons why i'll never get a manual car for everyday driving ever again....i just wish holden would bring out a more slimline console to make it more comfortable for the girls leaning over making the whole experience even better again!!! I wouldnt be dissapointed at owning an Auto Tourer or SSV Wagon in the slightest. Broom Broom.

The numbers Davo has put forward he no doubt pulled out his arse. But he does have a point. Holden is in the business of making money. Pleasing the minority of enthusiasts like us comes firmly after that.

Clearly they have evaluated the cost of developing and offering the M6 (as little or large as it may be) for the wagon as not being viable due to demand that was calculated from VE. Whether or not that changes is firmly in the hands of those walking into dealers and requesting it. Have enough people walk away and I'm sure Holden will change their view. Blame the bean counters on this one.

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Originally Posted by jkgmh

As Pauline Hanson would say "Please Explain?"

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The members were involved in a discussion until again they are treated like children and lectured too by someone who wants us to believe they are a professional Manufacturing Engineer & Production Manager.

It’s the self-edifying tone that ruffles the feathers and there is a long history of LS1 threads being kill because of it.

But if it sounds good I guess most people will be happy to fall for it regardless of how poor the source is.



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Originally Posted by macca_779

Holden is in the business of making money. Pleasing the minority of enthusiasts like us comes firmly after that.

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This makes more sense to me.

My uninformed belief is that it’s no more than a cost saving born from market research and prior sales history. It’s as simple as that.

Manuals are not as popular as enthusiasts like to think.

Check out the who’s buying a VF thread. The auto option for the GTS is winning.
So far there are 4 x Autos – 2 x Manuals

Personally I would go for the manual even if it’s a bit slower as I’d prefer the additional driving involvement a manual offers. But that thread shows I’m clearly in the minority.


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Originally Posted by Tre-Cool

theres a simple solution to all those complaining about the auto's... buy a tuning package and modify the factory shift settings.

it's not that complicated really.

I honestly think driving a manual is just a novelty now and get's annoying fast.

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I entirely agree. The days of speed cameras, road hogs, and impatient morons make an auto very relaxing, so long as its well calibrated.

The vf box has been getting very good reviews, one I have read has rated it over the manual, I cannot remember if it was for the 6 or 8 though... Sport/Manual modes in the autos these days satisfy a majority of potential manual buyers in my opinion.

LJCHSV summed it up perfectly though! Good work! :P People have realised the benefits of auto.

I'd also prefer a manual even if it's slower than an auto. I'd just get too bored in an auto and I prefer the sound of a manual (though a V8 auto is a million times more OK than a 4 pot auto). I'm lucky to live in a smaller city so traffic's OK. If I lived in a big city and had heavy traffic to deal with, I'd begrudgingly take the auto