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Yeah sad to say it is...sorry to see it gone in many ways but wanted to upgrade with something newer but now cant afford a new hsv.Quote:
Originally Posted by 701let
And all this talk about the new sc hsvs being near on 100k makes me want to cry...surely itd have to be a big stepup from what it is now then justa new engine to carry it. But then the 335 gt is carried by its engine haha...but its well under 70k
Yeah must have been sad for you. If hsv release a sc model and it is 100k well really if you can afford 70k then most probably you can afford 100k if you look at it that way. Bearing in mind the Ve is a better platform in all other ways..Quote:
Originally Posted by SUZUKI MALISHA
What's the saying 'good things aren't cheap and cheap things aren't good'
A 410KW LSA would be a big step up. Certainly compared with a 325KW GTS or 335KW FPV. And as for the argument about the cheapness of an aftermarket tuned up FPV doesn't really wash. A 410KW 3yr/100,000km factory warrantied car is simply worth more. Judging by the power that a tune can get out of any LS motor I would suspect the aftermarket guys could get a lot more out of an LSA if they want, you benefit from starting from a higher base if a tune tickles your fancy.Quote:
Originally Posted by SUZUKI MALISHA
Though I won't be in the market for it, I do hope for a price north of $100K they use the Senator Signature as a base with the Calais V level interior spec.
Cheers, Matthew
When I was studying Engineering a lecturer told us of a variation of the saying you quote. It is particularly relevent to project management "Quick. Cheap. Good. Pick any two." If it is quick and cheap it won't be any good. If it is quick and good it won't be cheap and if it is cheap and good it won't be quick.Quote:
Originally Posted by 701let
Cheers, Matthew
How many people in this thread can honestly say that, right here right now they can and are prepared to spend 100K on a HSV?
Honestly, 100k on any local produce is nothing short of a joke. You're starting to talk BMW 335 territory, now please don't go down the 'it's all about power' track, when most have been talking about the 'complete package' since FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses since the Miami release.
Thats why I think it would be a very limited build, circa 100 cars tops I reckon. HSV only sold 130 odd (+/- a few) W427s when there was little domestic competition at the time. HSV dealers seemed to struggle selling Coupe 4s, VT2-VY GTS sedans/coupes, VX Senator 300s for $95K back in 2000-2004, given a few months they seemed to be advertised with rather large discounts, which sure as hell didn't do resale any favours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
Cheers, Matthew
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
People spend $250k+ on a XY Phase 3 GTHO that is now around 30 years old - similarly they spend big coin for a Bathurst Monaro, or A9X Torrie. Putting aside the obvious racing heritage the older cars share (clearly, the current ones do not) - why would $100k+ for a HSV be silly - remembering, also, that the C4B cars were all $90-100k propositions back in 2000-2004?
cheers
What does the price of a 30 year old Falcon have to do with a new generation HSV? If they want to charge over 100k surely it would have to be more than just an engine swap.Quote:
Originally Posted by macca33
You answered your own question, racing heritage is where it's at and the fact new cars are not in the same league. Remember the muscle cars you talk of were near worthless 30 years ago, it's only recently they have become popular with many baby boomers. You'd probably be better off waiting 5 to 10 years when they're resale prices have dropped then hold onto it for 20-30 years when they don't exist to possibly cash up.Quote:
Originally Posted by macca33
Ha Ha Ha....Before you posted, you should have told everyone you were blind.....because you must be, because you obviously have been unable to read the relative sales figures for HSV & FPV......actually exactly the reverse is the case. Check sales figures before you make ridiculous comments like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
Even a renowned "Ford Man" John Bowe said in an article, he couldn't believe how good a package is the E3GTS. No doubt Miami ain't a ripper engine....no doubt at all.....and yes FPV have FINALLY got a good engine......and in a straight line, it may be slightly quicker than the HSV product.....but so what....there's a lot more to ANY car than driving it in a straight line, and as an overall package, the HSV car is light years ahead.
Anyway, get someone to find the sales figures for you.
Cheers, Pickles.
Well said mate ... that's the reason I wouldn't be interested. The GTS has enough power IMO, I wouldn't pay for more power if the rest of the package is the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
I would however disagree that "FPV has been handing HSV their collective arses" ... the GTS is still regarded as the better "package" and that's all that I'm interested in. Seriously, how fast can you go on Sydney roads anyway!
I'm confused...Quote:
Originally Posted by Pickles
What did I state about sales figures?
What did I say about John Bowe's comments?
Since when hasn't the Miami been a ripper motor?
Who said anything about comparing the HSV offering to the FPV offering? I in fact stated that as an overall package circa 100K, neither of them stack up against a BMW 335.
If you want to start a b#$shit3 fight over HSV and FPV be my guest, but you'll be alone as you're the first one to raise it in this thread!
Now unless I've written someting different to what you have read, you may wish to reconsider the ridiculous reply you have just presented.
Now I'll go jump in my boring FPV ute, which I'm glad I purchased after recently driving and even more boring SSV
Has anyone considered that HSV going to a supercharged motor may help Ford move cars. Think about it your average clueless punter gets sucked into HSV's excellent marketing campaign. Then realizes after going to the dealer how much one on the road is going to cost and clicks that if he goes to the FPV dealership next door he can get a supercharged V8 for 50+k less. I know I would
iPad 2 HD
Last 12 words of your Post 165?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
Cheers, Pickles.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
Um, put it back into the context of the entire comment, rather than only disecting a small portion and maybe even someone like you...never mindQuote:
Originally Posted by Pickles
Ok, I'll break it down for you.
HSV lovers since the LS1 have praised the power the motor produces, since the Miami introduction all you hear is how great the HSV 'package' is. So keeping in context that a supercharged HSV would be the solution to a better car is plain silly, throwing another 100kw at a car that is just capable now isn't going to make it better.
Do you get it now? Something like a BMW is a much better 'package' in that price range tham either HSV or FPV will ever produce, so I ask you don't go back down the 'power' avenue to justify a 100k+ price tag on an Aussie car....Phew
Some of us don,t give a shitt about imports,
A S/C HSV ,to the holden enthusiast would be awsome,and 100k,so what.
You're right, but there isn't enough enthusiasts who will or can afford a 100k.Quote:
Originally Posted by 288vxgts300
not to mention all i ever heard was the fpv used to have the better overall package...but the new stomping motor OVERPOWERS the chasis haha. seriously 100k for a hsv in this time and age is a joke and should be outlawed. Unless of course it is a special edition with the new sc engine and a bunch of goodies to put it in euro high performance sedan territory.....cus thats where it will be...and a sc engine alone wont cut it. Otherwise...MACCA your right...everyone can just go next door and buy a sc ford for MUCH less.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
What price point do you reckon this starts at for a genuine 5 seater 4 door?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????Quote:
Originally Posted by SUZUKI MALISHA
would be nice to see a factory supercharged v8 like the ls9 in a hsv. dont think they will get a ls9 tho. the fords are getting too fast hsv will loose too many customers if they dont step it up soon
You are missing the point......again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
Firstly, I started this thread.....It had NOTHING to do with Ford whatsoever....I did not introduce any comment about the Miami engine, regardless of how good it may, or may not be...nor did I make any untrue, derogatory comments "collective arses" about FPV, as you did against HSV......so if anyone started an HSV V FPV "issue" it was you.
"Phew" ....So, having got that out of the way. and in terms of my thread, the engine I am talking about , & remember, I've said I have no "inside info", will not be a "mainstream" engine, it will be a "special", a limited build, or whatever you want to call it. I say it will happen, but it will be built, in limited numbers alongside the existing range, which will continue.
Some have mentioned a 5.5L F.I. engine. well, I don't know much about that, but I'd say that is the engine that will take HSV into the future, not a limited build, very high performance unit like the 410KW LSA.
Cheers, Pickles
My dealer just sent me a flyer saying there's never been a better time to trade in my E1 Maloo for something new. The first listing is for their demonstrator Walkinshaw E3 GTS with 500kw through a WP230, WP cam, Lower MRC suspension, 6 pot brakes, WP 3" Bi-Modal exhaust with WP headers, SBZA. All for a bargain price of $169,000 :weirdo:
No, I'm not missing the point, you're simply not understanding what I and others are saying. BTW, I didn't realise that OP's owned thread?
1, no Australian built sedan is worth 100K regardless of what is under the bonnet.
2, the mojority of enthusiasts wanting all these goodies can't afford a 100K brand new car.
3, it's going to be too expensive putting it up against much better engineered cars.
4, an engine change for a limited edition run is not going to save HSV, especially with a special price tag.
5, with a price tag of 100k it opens up many, many options. some will even choose a used euro such as a Merc or BMW as they are simply better cars.
6, how long do you think the rwd platform will exists in the format of a commodore, 3-5 years? I can see it as a last stand only.
Unfortunately it seem likely that an LSA power HSV will be a special edition (which is what the GTS nameplate was originally) probably along the lines of the LSA powered ZL1 Camaro due this year. Whatever the engine to power the garden variety HSV it would be unlikely to put out more than 340-350kws as large jumps in power just dont make economic sense for any car manufacturer, thats why the VT LS1 was detuned so far. The big question is if HSV need 340-350kws for the next round of models do they up the power of the LS3 which would make it more powerful than any LS3 offering in the US or do they go with the LSA and detune it to suit.... or maybe they'll start fitting Miami engines, I hear they're so good they are going be powering the next space shuttle.
If it was up to me I'd make the SS N/A, put the base 550hp LSA in the SSV, put the higher output 580hp LSA in the Clubsport and the LS9 in the GTS to make it the special car it used to be, that'd give everyone plenty of choice and make what could be the last of the Commodores really something special.
4. There you go again.....Who said HSV need "saving"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
And you are missing the point again.....it ain't no "Last Stand", or anything of the sort....it's just a limited run "special", that is, IF it happens....it will have NO influence on HSV's future at all. HSV have had plenty of experience with limited builds...I would suggest to you that they are the best ones to decide whether it is worthwhile or not.
"Commodore Platform".....nothing to do with this thread.....but if ya wanna raise it, then I would suggest to you a Miami engined car will be affected by this issue before Commodore....but like I said, this thread ain't about HSV or FPV or Commodore or Falcon.....it's imply about whether a S/C engine will appear in a HSV this year....simply, I say it will.
Cheers, Pickles.
As well as missing the point with the euros. How old is the E63 or M5 that you see is worth $100k? I am looking at a replacement for my E2 and thinking of throwing some cash about. M3 and C63 4 doors are in the mix. Ummm I think you should go and play with one and then see how the $150k entry price stands up against the E3 or GT-P. Size is going to be an issue and the interior is not as flash as you seem to think it is. Different class different price. No comparison really. Go 10 year old second hand and you have a lot of history to worry about. I know the HSV or FPV is little more than a better braked better engined taxi with a light splash of sporty but it is still half the price of anything else that goes as hard. And yes I could get a Golf or something and tune the crap out of it but I wont.
If there was a limited edition GTS coming out later this year with a bag of kW, something nicer inside (God no red only leather option please oh and no go faster stickers and wings) and the suspension sorted for the kW I would look at it seriously - read buy it. Same goes for a GT-HO or whatever that would be but both need to have the chassis sorted for the kW and Nm.
Good post...I agree with you 100%.....and I do own....a C63!Quote:
Originally Posted by mjrandom
Cheers, Pickles.
OHH FFS CHILD!
I have my own opinion, stop getting so God damn defensive about it! In my opinion, anyone who spends a 100K or even 80K on an Aussie saloon needs their friggin head read!
simple answer yes it will be here later in the year.pickles i also have a c63 and i have seen the photos of your new1.there is no comparasion to a hsv and amg c63 the 2 are miles apart in fit and finish.also the quality need to be picked up by both hsv and fpv if they want to compete with the likes of amg and bmw m divisions.
:weirdo: I reckon (depending on kms) they won't get a lot more than half that asking price................Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_t
You might think 100k is a lot of money. For a lot of people it is just play money so what it gets spent on is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spoolin
There is no doubt HSV will have supercharged engines. Not this year though. This side of the decade yep.
You're right.....Anyone that would pay that sort of money would have to be a....SUPER GOOSE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonky
Cheers, Pickles.
That applies to people who buy most WP products I reckon. Very inflated prices indeedQuote:
Originally Posted by Pickles
you know whats really simple to understand...if you have to pay 40-50 THOUSAND $ more on a performance car...when the oposition builds virtually the same or similiar proven product...then your either a MASSIVE diehard to that brand(read stupid with your money) or your really stupid with your money.
i think Hsv will have a quad turbo 2ltre lpg grange by the end of the year.....just my opinion...smacks forehead....but its a great buisness case
Oh how I've missed some of the stuff on this forum...:lmao:
ANY CAR is worth whatever the person actually BUYING one feels it is worth. They don't have to justify it to internet legends.
Personally, I also have no "insider knowledge" on the topic Pickles started. But, I do agree that HSV for sure have been keeping their options open. They know perfectly well what the GM Powertrain closet contains, but, contrary to the thoughts of many an internet commentator, they are a successful business that only does what it NEEDS to do to be successful. As soon as a business starts caving in to the demands of people that often aren't even going to buy said car, they might as well shut the doors and find something else to do.
I believe they will release an LSA powered car as a limited run leading up to VF, based purely on how I believe they run their business.
Well, a supercharged 5.0 versus a supercharged 6.2...;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SUZUKI MALISHA
The usual suspects have YET AGAIN dragged this into an HSV vs FPV smackdown. How about we wait until the red team possibly releases said car hey fellas, before "comparing" them...to avoid certain people looking like Ford trolls and all...:)
To late for me couldnt wait any longer brought new gt 335 today to replace my twin turbo ve r8 maloo couldnt wait any longer been hard thing to do change sides.
The LSA has been out for years Davo. We know what its capable of. Tuned Miami vs tuned LSA there isn't much in it seeing what the yanks get out of them with no mods. The 5.0 while obviously smaller is a very efficient core engine so it's not as simple as bigger is better. One advantage the LSA has is it's intercooled from factory where the Miami isn't.
But yes let's just wait and see what HSV does. I do think the LSA is a stronger base engine. But then it's no ls9 either and the smaller blower will hold it back at some point whereas the 1.9 on the smaller ford effectively has more headroom. But again we shall see. Exciting times ahead.
iPhone
G'Day Davo.
Yeah, I don't care about the "opposition" either....it was NOT why I created this thread....it was simply about whether HSV will, or will not, release a S/C engine this year...that's all.
I remain confident that........they will.
Cheers, Pickles.