x2 on the Gatorback, noticably quieter at idle as well :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
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x2 on the Gatorback, noticably quieter at idle as well :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
I understand why or how there have been improvements in blower design due to newer, more efficient rotors but surely you can't tar all blowers using these rotors with the same brush.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
I can think of at least 5-6 different designs of blowers with the same displacement that use the same rotors. I can't see how they can all behave exactly the same under the same conditions (say if you take one off and bolt the other on to the same engine combo and run the same size pulley). Blowers (and intercooler setups for that matter as you need to compare a complete kit) can surely all have different rates of efficiency, which will equate to different boost levels in to the motor. Whether this is justifiable to the consumer or not, I don't know... I'm happy with my setup so won't be forking out for the latest and greatest but if I was to buy another vehicle, I would.
Generally, all the WP blowers that I have seen have much lower results (torque, power and MPH) than the equivalent Maggie or Harrop, yet they use the same Eaton rotors.
Hmmm ...
I think it is time to inject some clarification to ensure that the facts about the Magnuson Heartbeat supercharger are not confused by other products on the market.
Eaton does produce more than 95% of all supercharger rotor groups, and >99% of OEM rotor groups ... however that does not mean by any imaginary stretch that all superchargers created from those rotors are equal. Eaton's own testing very clearly proves that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
A supercharger is not just the rotors - there are many things that contribute to the effectiveness of the system. Some of the advantages of Heartbeat's performance & efficiency over other systems include:
- Large & unrestricted intake, negating depression between the throttle plate & the rotors.
- Unique purpose-designed "Pentalobe" coupling for improved input-shaft to rotor connection.
- The (large) bypass port is not restrictive to flow in either low-flow or high-flow situations.
- Rotor intake-port timing is optimised.
- Heartbeat has a non-torturous and more laminar pre-rotor airflow path.
- Rotor discharge port timing and shape are optimised.
- The discharge port is not crowded by charge-air-coolers (CAC's) or other casting surfaces.
- A large pre-CAC plenum ensures more even distribution of charge through the coolers.
- The unique dual CAC's ensure superior cooling without creating excessive pressure drop.
- The port seperators create ideal boundaries to ensure cross-port contanination is eliminated without introducing the restrictions of "runners".
Interesting comments, but of little relevance to Heartbeat as it is none of the above.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
Heartbeat is a hybrid Roots-based TVS2300 ... not a screw of any sort.
It would be nice if the method of turning the rotors had no effect, but the parasitic loss of the supercharger system is definantely effected by the drive method. A transfer shaft system will take more energy to turn than a direct-drive system - or at least until the laws of friction and inertia are re-written. The mass & moment of inertia affect accelleration/decelleration as well as the overall parasitic loss. Heartbeat's cartridge-drive input system is lighter and has less inertia than any other system currently available.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
Additionally, the drive method can definately affect the potential for good efficiency as some (not Heartbeat) front-drive systems are quite restrictive and create massive turbulence currents for the air entering the rotors. Heartbeat's design ensures the a nice flow-path while enjoying the benefits of a front-drive system.
This statement is true for twin-screw compressors, but not correct for hybrid-Roots air-pumps like Heartbeat. There is no compression taking place within the supercharger rotor chambers - the air is not compressed until it exits the discharge port and enters the manifold. A twin-screw generates compression & heat with every turn regardless of whether the engine needs boost or not, whereas the hybrid-Roots will only create boost when it is needed, which is part of the reason the system is so efficient.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
We look forward to your testing of Heartbeat. Every test done so far (locally & by independant workshops in the USA) have shown the prototype Heartbeat to be significantly better - and on back-to-back, same-engine, same-dyno tests. Further testing of the production system is scheduled and the results will be published.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
The belt-wrap shown on the images of the VCM VE is not indicative of the final system. In fact, the entire system shown is pre-production and does not include all of the features of the final release. Even so, because the design has been very focussed on eliminating parasitic loss ... we have pulled >10psi without any noticable slippage even with the minimal wrap.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
When the full system is installed (as shown at SEMA), the belt wrap is very impressive.
Although toothed belt drives eliminate slippage, the harmonics introduced are not kind to the supercharger.
While overtightening the drive belt should always be avoided, the Heartbeat cartridge-drive & Pentalobe coupling system ensure that rotor bearings are isolated from any belt tensioning misadventure. :)
Interesting read. Cleared up some things I have heard over the years.
Ken: How does the Edelbrock E-Force/Harrop Stealth Force stack up against the Heartbeat seeing as they share a lot of the features you've mentioned above?
There are very few similarities between the Edelbrock, HTV, & Heartbeat. The bullet pointed features above are some of the key differences.Quote:
Originally Posted by IJ.
Sorry, I am far from knowledgeable on superchargers except for the knowledge that while I'd love one, with my disabilities I'd probably be dead in less than a week......... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ls2 cruiser
I'd put a lot of faith in what Ken (ex Harrop) says as he seems to really know his stuff, as well as taking note of what tbs23 says as he seems to have a lot of practical experience with them, though I know nothing of his background.
35 years in the performance and racing industry, TBS should give you a clue, Ken and i have discussed many a issues when he was working at Harrops, Ken we have spoken many a times about supercharger issues.I teach automotive engineering in QLD now.
Something i dug up so, everyone can read and understand put everyone in the picture,as so.
Q: Does Eaton make aftermarket supercharger kits?
A: Eaton only produces OEM (factory, from the dealer) type superchargers. The Eaton aftermarket business consists of 4 partner companies. These companies purchase certified components and internal sub-assemblies direct from Eaton (bearings, rotors, gears, and seals). These are the same internal components found in the Eaton OEM assemblies. The only difference is that each aftermarket partner company creates its own housing designs to fit the needs of the aftermarket applications. These housings are designed and tested in conjunction with Eaton to ensure proper specifications.
Q: How do I get an Eaton aftermarket supercharger kit for my vehicle?
A: Please contact one of the 4 Eaton aftermarket supercharger partner companies. Each company has unique application offerings.
www.magnusonproducts.com
1-805-642-8833
www.harrop.com.au
USA 1-269-660-1500
Australia +61 3 9474 0900
www.edelbrock.com
1-800-416-8628
www.roush.com
1-800-59-ROUSH
One manufacture of rotors supplies 90% of the rotors, and the rotors are what produce the boost. Is that right Ken?
The rotors are a key component, but no ... the rotors alone do not create the boost.Quote:
Originally Posted by tbs23
Imagine a housing that has 1.0mm clearance to the rotors, or a CAC too close to the discharge port ... the boost will not be consistant with a correctly toleranced or designed system.
I seem to recall that we (TBS23) once spoke of large throttle bodies, and I know that your expeience will confirm that even a change of throttle body will make a difference to the amount of boost a given supercharger can produce.
Rotors contribute a great deal, but the entire system design & integration determines the boost, charge temperature, efficency etc.
Refer to post 32 for clarification.
:1peek:
I agree but at the end of the day we are modifying the rest of the unit to gain the max rotor efficiency, do you remember when i re coated the rotors closed the housing clearances up and i dropped 15 deg manifold temp? I made more power and torque. Less heat
I just not wanting to get too technical in this thread, so everyone can gain some knowledge. Not sales jargon. On saying that yes i would purchase the new kit because it has all the latest upgrades done. Good thread.
From the Corvette blogger website:Quote:
Originally Posted by Drizt
The Magnuson Heartbeat TVS 2300 Supercharger kit is priced at $8,590 for the black powdercoated version or add $1,200 more for the polished unit. The new “Heartbeats” will be available in December 2012 for LS3 engines and then additional applications for other LS engines will be rolled out afterwards.
Should be reasonably similar pricing here.........???
Would be similar I'd imagine. Pretty much in the ball park of all the other kits anyway, so you'd expect it to be close
Whats news with these kits??
latest wright up
http://www.vcmperformance.com.au/ind...harger-testing