Toyota to stop manufacturing in 2017

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Originally Posted by Pickles

I go back to my Post 5 in this thread.
So, who do I blame for not ALL of the problem, but a LARGE part?
I blame the Unions, for pushing up wages, conditions, penalties, RDOs, and all the other stuff we've talked about. I ain't blaming any particular Party, labor or Lib, in particular, but I will say this, Labor have ALWAYS been far more amenable to Union "demands" than the Coalition.
I am NOT against Unions, I was a member of the ABOA, now the Finance sector Union, for the whole 40 yrs of my working life, I marched, went to Rallys, etc etc, but the Bank Union never went for outrageous/over the top claims. And don't bring the CEO's $11M package into this, that's got nothing to do with the Union. (Suffice to say it IS outrageous, no-one's worth that sort of money).
So, I have nothing against Unions, only the absolutely outrageous claims that they have made, & won, which have contributed to a very large extent to the high cost of manufacturing in Australia.....which is now seeing the demise of manufacturing here,....and you might note,.....there hasn't been much "noise" from the Unions recently.
Even Paul Howes, in his controversial Press Club address recently, conceded that Unions needed to be more realistic in their negotiations with Industry & Govt, whichever Govt is in power.
How do we get manufacturing going again?....I have no idea. I've been called the "Voice Of Doom" on this forum before, I've said that living standards in Aus are unsustainable, & I've been poo-pood for that too. Well the workers that are now starting to lose their jobs might have some common ground with me.
Pickles.

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Absolutely bang-on Pickles!
The Unions have done such a wonderful job for their members in the Australian Auto Industry that they have largely negotiated them all out of a job.....albeit with some tidy retirement benefits for most of them, but none-the-less there is no longer any future...

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Originally Posted by seldo

Absolutely bang-on Pickles!
The Unions have done such a wonderful job for their members in the Australian Auto Industry that they have largely negotiated them all out of a job.....albeit with some tidy retirement benefits for most of them, but none-the-less there is no longer any future...

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Thanks Seldo,....at least someone is in touch with reality.
Cheers, Pickles.

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Originally Posted by seldo

Absolutely bang-on Pickles!
The Unions have done such a wonderful job for their members in the Australian Auto Industry that they have largely negotiated them all out of a job.....albeit with some tidy retirement benefits for most of them, but none-the-less there is no longer any future...

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I agree, but unions are not totally to blame. Add the decisions to reduce tariffs on imported cars...history shows all..

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Originally Posted by Pickles

Thanks Seldo,....at least someone is in touch with reality.
Cheers, Pickles.

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Tony will sort the unions he's in the process of spending $100,000,000 for jobs for his mates on a wide reaching ICAC into them!!

Basically this says it all.... How can we possibly expect to be competitive in any labour-intensive industry, no matter what we are trying to manufacture...It's simply an impossibility.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/i...-the-world.png

Holden should move operations to Sierra Leone. Im sure any of the locals would be up to and exceed the quality of service I recently have had from Holden.

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Originally Posted by seldo

Basically this says it all.... How can we possibly expect to be competitive in any labour-intensive industry, no matter what we are trying to manufacture...It's simply an impossibility.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/i...-the-world.png

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Your e.g. is useless Seldo without a correlation to the cost of living in each of those cities!!

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Originally Posted by HSVREDSLED

Holden should move operations to Sierra Leone. Im sure any of the locals would be up to and exceed the quality of service I recently have had from Holden.

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You should head it up mate!:)

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)

Both companies still couldn't get the product right despite decades of development. Imagine the dramas with a totally new fleet?

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Originally Posted by HSVREDSLED

Both companies still couldn't get the product right despite decades of development. Imagine the dramas with a totally new fleet?

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They never asked , they assumed , they came close but didn't give the punters what they needed , they gave us what they thought we needed.

The Holden Adventra , Crewman Cross 6/8 could've been a winner had they just put in a diesel that gave V8 pulling power, half decent economy and thrown on a 29/30 inch tyre.

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Originally Posted by seldo

Basically this says it all.... How can we possibly expect to be competitive in any labour-intensive industry, no matter what we are trying to manufacture...It's simply an impossibility.
http://static5.businessinsider.com/i...-the-world.png

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Sorry Pete but if people in Australia were paid much lower wages nobody would be able to afford to buy a new car
so they would go broke anyway

That begs the answer what should non skilled veh. assemblers be paid if they the manuf. is to make a decent profit?

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Originally Posted by C4B

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)

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Nail, head, hit, agree 100%, these companies ask what we want & do f*** all, compare the small car sector, hyundai, toyota, mazda, they are a much better car than what ford holden has to offer. Fiesta , focus, mondeo, havent got a tad on the jap korean equalivent.

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Originally Posted by C4B

I think the point we're missing here is that Holden/Ford aren't solely in this position because of their labour costs. This has been heavily predicated by the fact that neither manufacturer was prepared to produce a product people now want. The money is in SUV's and Dual Cab style vehicles these days but both manufacturers just kept churning out the same old product they've been producing for the past 30+ years.

Video shops haven't shut down because staff costs are too high, they've shut down because their product is not wanted..... If Ford/Holden had bitten the bullet 4-5 years ago and replaced their Falcon/Commodore production with a Hilux and Rav4 equivalent, they'd probably still have a case for manufacturing in this country.

I personally think the unions are a complete waste of space, and there's no doubt in this case that they have improved the case to cease manufacturing in this country, but to me the key is that the product they're making is the automotive equivalent of the VHS tape (and is going to go the same way)

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Absolutely true.
This is also demonstrated by the fact that our best selling car is/was Mazda 3, and the biggest seller across the board was the HiLuxe. You'll note that one is manufactured in Japan and the other in Thailand...
Problem is - because to compete with these products, we must do so on a much higher labour rate, and it has been shown over the years that the manufacturers find it difficult to make a quid on these cheaper volume models - the further up the model ladder you go, the higher the profit margin.
Holden probably make more money on selling 35,000 Commodores than they would selling 70,000 Cruses...
Also, I read somewhere the other day that Toyota said that it costs them $3,500 more to manufacture a Camry here than it costs them elsewhere....