can a built 4l60e handel 350kw and 800nm of torque at the wheels?

Hey guys im just after some thoughts on whether a built 4l60e will handle 350kw and 800nm of torque at the back wheels? (supercharged)

Whats your thoughts?

There is another member on here....or several in this case, that have around the 350rwkw mark or better, with a 4l60e trans and no issues......


If well serviced and maintained the 4l60e is a good box.....

Eventually it will break

I was running a Craig's Automatic 4L65E in my ute for a while when I had the N/A combo with nitrous. I had 330rwkw and over 1000nm torque at the tyres and it was fine. I upgraded to a blown LS2 in the same car, and although on the limit, it stayed together. The blown combo had 388rwkw and over 1400nm at the tyres! The only thing saving the box in my opinion, was wheelspin. If it had awesome traction, I doubt the box would have stayed together. By the way - you can basically turn a 4L60E into a 4L65E with a few parts. Craig recommends keeping the 4L60E / 4L65E boxes limited to 600fwhp - and I agree.

Cheers mate
Leppy

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Originally Posted by ls2 cruiser

Eventually it will break

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in my opinion, this.

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Originally Posted by Leppy

I was running a Craig's Automatic 4L65E in my ute for a while when I had the N/A combo with nitrous. I had 330rwkw and over 1000nm torque at the tyres and it was fine. I upgraded to a blown LS2 in the same car, and although on the limit, it stayed together. The blown combo had 388rwkw and over 1400nm at the tyres! The only thing saving the box is my opinion, was wheelspin. If it had awesome traction, I doubt the box would have stayed together. By the way - you can basically turn a 4L60E into a 4L65E with a few parts. Craig recommends keeping the 4L60E / 4L65E boxes limited to 600fwhp - and I agree.

Cheers mate
Leppy

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You mean that same box that Sean is now running and making 394rwkw and well over 1000nm and still running 10.5s full weight and daily driven :stick:

..Craig builds a hell of a gearbox

Call me cynical, but even Craig doesn't recommend that 4L60/65e's are run at that power/torque level, must be for a good reason. There might have a few holding up, but I wouldn't be pushing my luck.

Haha thats the one (but Sean had 395rwkw's! lol). And my turbo VZ Senator has the same 4L65E Craigs in it - 394rwkw, 1350nm torque 11.000 @ 127.25mph. The Senator has done over 4000km's so far, and fingers crossed the gearbox is going great. In saying that, the box won't last forever - Craig laughs everytime when I tell him his boxes can handle more power than he says lol

I hope this answers your questions coop447.

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Originally Posted by SirNemesis

Call me cynical, but even Craig doesn't recommend that 4L60/65e's are run at that power/torque level, must be for a good reason. There might have a few holding up, but I wouldn't be pushing my luck.

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As Leppy said he rates the boxes at 600fwhp. This is just a few testimates to how well built they really are and how well they have held up when pushed beyond their rated limits

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i have one of craigs 4l60e for prob around 2 years.
i have more torque than you but so far it's holding up fine but at the end of the day it's how you treat it.
i don't flog the crap out of my car just usually cruise but when i do feel like a little squirt it feels rock solid.
best talk to craig if he can't build you are strong box no one can and also a very nice guy to boot who is a straight shooter.

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Originally Posted by SirNemesis

Call me cynical, but even Craig doesn't recommend that 4L60/65e's are run at that power/torque level, must be for a good reason. There might have a few holding up, but I wouldn't be pushing my luck.

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very true he said for mine it's on the very limit but if you want one of those boxes it's all you can do, which he will tell you if you insist.

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Originally Posted by Jezza@HDTCQ

You mean that same box that Sean is now running and making 394rwkw and well over 1000nm and still running 10.5s full weight and daily driven :stick:

..Craig builds a hell of a gearbox

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How long do u think he has been running that box for and does he flog the piss out of it?

Cheers guys
good to hear some experiances

Hey has anyone had any boxes done by custom transmisions in brisbane?

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Originally Posted by coop447

How long do u think he has been running that box for and does he flog the piss out of it?

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Hes been running that box for over a year now and its copped a flogging but he knows its over the limit and a time will come one day it will go. Plus he never kicks it down into 3rd gear etc

dont go to Bob Grant. He is a swine. Stick to Craigs. The imput shaft is a piece of junk when stock. A small steel shaft cast into an alloy drum. I believe they have something better now.

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Originally Posted by ls2 cruiser

dont go to Bob Grant. He is a swine. Stick to Craigs. The imput shaft is a piece of junk when stock. A small steel shaft cast into an alloy drum. I believe they have something better now.

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There is a hardened drum/shaft assembly which you can add a reinforcment sleeve to the main failure point to beef it up further, the Trans in one form or another has been around for a long time and all of it's weak points are well known and have better/aftermarket parts available.

I ran a built A340E Toyota Trans in the last project car with 410/1154 and beat the piss out of it for many years, again like one of the other posters it was traction limited but held together, the corrosponding parts in the 4L60/4L65 are easily 33% larger so I have my fingers crossed ;)

They are not made of sugar eh... Kick it's ass!!

Get a good cooler
Get a good tuner
Don't let it downshift on WOT

Party!

upgrade the 4L60E to 4L65E spec, run massive trans cooler and synthetic fluid.

however you MUST have the box tuned by someone who really really knows what they are doing. ;)

hi i speak to a guy at the drags all the time runnin a craigs built 4l60e he only has around 300rwkw russo h/c combo runs 11.2/3s and no joke runs every week doing hundreds of passes a year no problem i,ve run a craigs built 4l60e easy mid 10s full weight only breaking it @ 450rwkw+ and sticky track not on the road!!!! cheers

my box held up to 400rwkw un till it started slipping ,on strip down it had smoked the band so if driven correctly will hold up but abuse them and they will break easy

I have a built 4l60e in mine with a 3200stall, 2 trans coolers and a blown and cam'd ls1. Last time on HPF's Dyno it made around 380rwkw and bucket loads of torque. When I had the trans built was told it's defiantly at the higher end of its limit. So far it has held up to plenty of runs down the strip and plenty of abuse on the street including numerous 3rd gear power skids;) and no problems yet. I do keep a close eye on the temps and have a good tuner but I'm not naive to the fact that all components that see extended abuse will fail sooner or later. Thats part of the fun.... If it breaks build it or change it for something stronger.

Hey guys thanks for the info
It sure sounds like Craigs boxes hold up quiet well but i think i have decided to keep pushing along with my 4l80e conversion, just hope it all goes to plan without to much problems.
From talking to all the well knowen builders around about the 4l60e box, no matter what anyone does to them they will eventually fail by the sound of it with that sort of power .

From all the info around i have gathered on average i would say most people giving there built 4l60e box a hard time with a bit of power seam to wreck them in 12 months, i guess there are some exceptions but that seams to be the average from what im hearing.
I was told buy 1 guy it might last quite a wile if i just run street tyres and spin everywere but whats the point in that, he did agree with me tho, may aswell have a stock engine.

line pressure is all that keeps them alive like any automatic transmission just look at the ford c4 they are junk until u run 300 psi line pressure then they are bullet proof......

Greetings from Kuwait
I have made an extensive search on the web to see if I could beef up my 4L65E Transmission on my 2008 Lumina SS to handle the power of the recently installed HTV 1900 SC along with a 3” X-FORCE exhaust system I haven’t yet tuned my ride till I get my missing 2 bar map sensor, to cut the story short I came across a professional Transmission rebuild company in the states (MAD DOG TRANSMISSIONS) and they have rebuild kits for the 700R4, 4L60, 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70, 4L70E, 4L80, 4L80E Transmission the 4L60, 4L60E kits are rated to handle 800HP, check them out they also have vid’s on YouTube showing all the modification done on them, hope this will help, I myself will be going for one of the kits they have.
Cheers

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Originally Posted by distruct

Greetings from Kuwait
I have made an extensive search on the web to see if I could beef up my 4L65E Transmission on my 2008 Lumina SS to handle the power of the recently installed HTV 1900 SC along with a 3” X-FORCE exhaust system I haven’t yet tuned my ride till I get my missing 2 bar map sensor, to cut the story short I came across a professional Transmission rebuild company in the states (MAD DOG TRANSMISSIONS) and they have rebuild kits for the 700R4, 4L60, 4L60E, 4L65E, 4L70, 4L70E, 4L80, 4L80E Transmission the 4L60, 4L60E kits are rated to handle 800HP, check them out they also have vid’s on YouTube showing all the modification done on them, hope this will help, I myself will be going for one of the kits they have.
Cheers

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I guess it could be an option but in my opinion, if it was that easy then all the main performance auto builders hear in Aus would be buying these kits for them and building them hear but i have spoken to most of the main guys over hear including Craigs and they all said the 4l60e will fail no matter what they do to them with the power im running.
I would say from what you are doing to yours you will have simmilar power to me, so be carfull. Like i said if it was that easy these guys hear would be doing it, most of them have been around for years and know what they are doing so im sure they have looked into all of this themselvs.
Just think if someone hear was building these 4l60e or 4l65e boxes to hande that sort of power and not breaking, they would make heaps of coin so im sure they have looked into all these avenues.
Thats why im going with the 4l80e.
I have read mixed reports about madog.
Just my opinion not trying to put you off

ooops... i have just bought a vz clubby with 400kw at wheels.
What box have i got? sorry im a noob...
so i can expect to be rebuilding the box soon??
Any tips on keeping it together??

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Originally Posted by Samurai Trader

ooops... i have just bought a vz clubby with 400kw at wheels.
What box have i got? sorry im a noob...
so i can expect to be rebuilding the box soon??
Any tips on keeping it together??

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If you have a manual 6 speed box, then you'll have an MM6 box. If its an auto, it will be a 4L65E. Any factory gearbox (rebuilt or not) with your amount of power will break - its not a matter of if, but a matter of when. If its an auto, DO NOT kick it down from high gears under power! Pretty much be kind to it - it may last 10 years, and / or it may not even last the next drive...

Cheers
Leppy

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Originally Posted by Leppy

If you have a manual 6 speed box, then you'll have an MM6 box. If its an auto, it will be a 4L65E. Any factory gearbox (rebuilt or not) with your amount of power will break - its not a matter of if, but a matter of when. If its an auto, DO NOT kick it down from high gears under power! Pretty much be kind to it - it may last 10 years, and / or it may not even last the next drive...

Cheers
Leppy

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No Leppy he will have an M12 box as all VZ HSV manuals had. Its a shorter ratio box than the MM6.

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Originally Posted by Leppy

If you have a manual 6 speed box, then you'll have an MM6 box. If its an auto, it will be a 4L65E. Any factory gearbox (rebuilt or not) with your amount of power will break - its not a matter of if, but a matter of when. If its an auto, DO NOT kick it down from high gears under power! Pretty much be kind to it - it may last 10 years, and / or it may not even last the next drive...

Cheers
Leppy

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sorry, its an auto. i thought that was assumed as i was commenting in an auto Thread
thanks for the input, i appreciate it.
it been built and has a stallie, apparently its had a few thousand spent on it and it does shift really well.

when you say " do not kick it down from high gears under power"
what do you mean?
can you clarify..
how do i have fun in my new car? only shift down manually then give it power.
or can i just leave it in drive and boot it..

Thankyou for comments.

drop down from Drive to 3rd, then give it the berry's. built boxes 'should' handle the 4-3 (or lower kickdown) better than stock boxes.

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Originally Posted by macca_779

No Leppy he will have an M12 box as all VZ HSV manuals had. Its a shorter ratio box than the MM6.

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Dead right as always macca. I somehow missed the Clubby bit rofl