Young drivers face V8 car ban until 21

From Perthnow. New State Opposition Leader trying to make his mark.


WA drivers will be banned from driving high-powered cars until they are at least 21, under incoming Opposition leader Mark McGowan.

He said he would go well beyond the State Government's present consideration to ban only L and P-platers from driving V8s if he becomes premier at the next election.

It is a clear sign Mr McGowan who will be voted in as Opposition leader tomorrow will go head-to-head with Premier Colin Barnett's tough law-and-order agenda.

He said too many lives were being lost on WA roads and, "I don't want any parents to have to bury their children".

"All the debate has been around P-platers and L-platers, but my inclination goes further than that. I think we should be looking at drivers of at least 21 years of age," he said.

"I'm very keen on progressing legislation to ensure that young people can't get behind the wheel of high-powered vehicles where they can hurt or kill themselves or others. The state has an obligation to protect young people and our citizens from harm."

Under his preferred proposal, young people who obtained P-plates at 17 would be banned from driving high-performance vehicles for at least another two years beyond what the Barnett Government is considering.

Mr McGowan said the plan, which would be developed in the coming months, would apply to cars with supercharged or turbocharged engines or those with eight or more cylinders. Previously, Labor has only supported banning L and P-platers from driving V8 and other high-performance cars.

"The Barnett Government promised they would look at this issue when they were elected and thus far, they haven't done anything," Mr McGowan said. "I think the time has come for action."

He said it required urgent attention, particularly after the death of a 25-year-old mother in Maylands in November.

Manju Bala, who was carrying her three-month-old son, died after she was allegedly hit by a Subaru WRX being driven by a P-plater. The baby escaped with scratches.

Road Safety Minister Rob Johnson said the Curtin-Monash Accident Research Centre would provide its report on the link between power-to-weight ratios and fatal and serious crashes among young drivers to the Road Safety Council by next month.

He would then consider if new legislation was needed.

Tom Davies, from Enough is Enough WA, a group launched last year after the death of 17-year-old Luke Beyer, said he would prefer to see compulsory defensive driver training for new drivers.

"The important note is that any car can be driven at speed while under the influence of drugs or alcohol, or in a manner deemed dangerous," he said.

"It is the driver where the focus needs to be, not impeding the larger population with a ban, which will have no legitimate effect on road safety."

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I don't have a problem with it.
Inexperienced (usually male) drivers powered by far more testosterone than brains can be a lethal mix in a high powered car. Same goes for turbo and heavily modified cars.
Get some experience, prove you're not a total fcukwit, then be allowed the rewards...

The idea is fine but the choice of car is stupid, why a supercharged or turbo car? how bout a turbo diesel Cruze or a VW Golf TD. They need to work their ruling on a Power to Weight ratio.

I agree with Plenty. It wouldn't be any different to the LAMS for bikes.

I have no problems either,

I was frockwit when i was young,thankfully i didn,t hurt anyone,and i,m lucky to be here today.

My driving was a case of going as fast as the car could go,with NO thought about what could happen,that never entred my mind.

Education these days is very good i think.

Welcome to a decade ago WA

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Plenty

The idea is fine but the choice of car is stupid, why a supercharged or turbo car? how bout a turbo diesel Cruze or a VW Golf TD. They need to work their ruling on a Power to Weight ratio.

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Also think of it this way. The New commodores and falcon 6 cyls are more powerful than the 5l v8s from just over 10 years ago

they need a combination of vehicle bans and early driver education.Show some after crash video's and scare the daylights out of them,show them some crash vehicles at the impound yard
The way some of the idiots drive their little 4 cylinder cars is scary also,just plain crazy.You will never be able to stop idiots all you can do is limit the deaths/damage they do
While they are at it how about a limit on the number of passengers under 21-there is a bit of stirring up going on also inside the car's-some girls are as bad as the guy's.They get so busy talking and listening to the music they forget about everything else

What they should is make advanced driving courses mandatory for high powered vehicles regardless of age. I had an "high" powered car when I was 19

Quote:

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Originally Posted by macca_779

Welcome to a decade ago WA

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We're just busy supporting the rest of the States of Australia.

I don't have an issue with it. My Mum set the ground rules for me anyway which was no V8 until I was 21. Either way though, when you get one you still test the limits and sometimes exceed them.

power to weight ratio is the concept they need to look into. also, drivers under 21? whats the license / L / P plater ages in WA? VIC is Ps at 18 and not off them until after 21 anyway

Banning V8s.....Rubbish, I say.
Plenty of cars more powerful, faster, & just as available as a V8......so just "banning V8s"....to make a "political", "I'm a good guy", "do-gooder" statement will do no good at all, except maybe get him a bit of attention from the "do-gooders" etc.
The problem of today is ATTITUDE, & these youths, or whoever they are, who get involved in doing visible burnouts, "crowd pleasing" stunts have a severe attitude "couln't give a stuff" problem....same as the ones, who create police "pursuits", by refusing to be pulled over etc etc etc.
The Police & Politicians are ALWAYS on about SPEED SPEED SPEED, because it's easy to enforce....speed cameras, radar etc etc etc....but speed is only of a "by product" of the real issue, which is attitude. Get the attitude right, & you get rid of much of the problem.
Brock once said to me, "If you haven't got your brain in gear, when you get behind the wheel, NOTHING will make any difference".
Cheers, Pickles.

Power to weight ratios are a reasonably flawed method for road cars, because it's rather too easy for an element of young people with a turbo/supercharged or V8 car just under the cap to spend on mods if they can afford it. Considering what quite a few apprentices can earn these days, and they often live at home for minimal cost too, spare cash to blow aint that much of a problem.
Since many seem to have little respect for authority anymore, make them earn some respect to get the privilages, by proving they can behave first.
This sort of subject is ALWAYS highly emotive. We have young people with something to lose, older people who hate the system, and others who simply don't give a fcuk about anyone but themselves, all easily able to make a comment...

We as a community are gradually being legislated to the point where eventually we’ll lose the ability to be able to make decisions for ourselves. You only need to look at the social problems that Governments of late have been trying to correct by making laws that affect everyone to save the few. Alcohol and drug abuse, gambling addiction, violence and rage and traffic safety to name a few and yet no amount of Government intervention makes the problems go away.

Its education we need, not laws.

It has been well known for decades that no amount of Government legislation will cure human failings or fix society’s ills. Not everyone lives to an old age, laws won’t change that.
Cars regardless of power can kill if the driver is silly enough to take them beyond their own driving ability and/or the vehicle’s limit. If Governments were serious, they would introduce expensive and mandatory education programmes for new drivers that teach road courtesy, basic and advanced vehicle control and so on as a part of introducing new laws. Laws on their own only target the law abiding, the others do whatever they wish.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by sjhugh

We as a community are gradually being legislated to the point where eventually we’ll lose the ability to be able to make decisions for ourselves. You only need to look at the social problems that Governments of late have been trying to correct by making laws that affect everyone to save the few. Alcohol and drug abuse, gambling addiction, violence and rage and traffic safety to name a few and yet no amount of Government intervention makes the problems go away.

Its education we need, not laws.

It has been well known for decades that no amount of Government legislation will cure human failings or fix society’s ills. Not everyone lives to an old age, laws won’t change that.
Cars regardless of power can kill if the driver is silly enough to take them beyond their own driving ability and/or the vehicle’s limit. If Governments were serious, they would introduce expensive and mandatory education programmes for new drivers that teach road courtesy, basic and advanced vehicle control and so on as a part of introducing new laws. Laws on their own only target the law abiding, the others do whatever they wish.

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Tell all this to those scumbag lawyers that only exist for a win, rather than doing what is "right"...we live in an increasingly litigious society where people can "win" because others didn't stop them misbehaving...:spew:

FAIL... why not try teaching younger drivers how to drive safely and make it mandatory for them to do driving courses at school instead of some of the useless crap that is taught and never used in real life. A young inexperienced driver is just as dangerous in a SV6 as opposed to a SS or similar. This sort of thing is just to make them look as though they are doing something about younger drivers without actually having to do anything except say "You're Banned from driving XXXX car".

It's obviously to much effort these days to try and do anything properly. I can't get my head around L platers being on the road without even having to do any previous driving...

I agree with the advanced driver courses for drivers of high powered vehicles. Personally though, I don't think it makes much of a difference if you are driving a higher powered V8 or a lower powered V6. I think if someone's gonna drive like an idiot they're gonna drive like an idiot no matter what car you give them or how many anti-speed videos they are shown but at least if they have been taught the basics of how to handle the car the chance of them doing serious damage is lowered somewhat.

I have 2x friends with S14 200sx (sr20det) the first one is 28yrs old and his car is fairly stock with stock size turbo(boosted) and standard brakes suspension etc. he drives like an absolute idiot and treats the car like crap. I actually get worried as a passenger. He also wrote off his last S14. The second friend is about 24, has a 200sx with fully built sr20 with huge t67 turbo making pretty crazy power for such a light car, the car has coilovers etc, handles well and is well kept, looked after etc. The car is very fast but the guy does not drive wrecklessly and being in the car I feel safe and don't worry at all. He will drive the car fast and use the power but not all the time and not in stupid places. The car has had the money spent on very good quality parts and work has been done slowly but with care.

Also the first guy recently replaced his clutch and flywheel. Stripped a thread on the crank completely and overdid another of the flywheel bolts to the point it just keeps spinning. I told him before hand to make sure they are all torqued up right etc. but he didn't listen.Instead of fix it properly or replace the engine with another sr20 he had sitting there, he puts 6 of the 8 flywheel bolts back in properly (not torqued though) absolutely covers the 7th in loctite and does up as tight as it will go and leaves the 8th one out as there is no thread at all. He brings the car around the next day as the clutch feels funny so I adjust the master cyl rod which fixes that problem, then we take the car for a drive to test and I tell him it has alot of shudder etc then he tells me "oh yeah, I left a tailshaft flange bolt out cos I couldn't find it". This guy also buys brake pads and rotors from wreckers to save money lol. He is 28 yrs old so I don't think it's the age or car that's the problem, more the attitude and intelligence lol.

I'd much rather drive next to the second car with the under 25 driver making 390+rwhp than the 28yr old driver making under 200rwkw lol.
I think it's more someone's attitude and skill towards driving that causes an accident than the type of car they drive.

A Hyundai exel can still do 140kph... Straight into a tree! It's not the car it's
the driver... Here in wa we are taught to pass a test not how to drive a car

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Originally Posted by Mr Mynarocv8

Here in wa we are taught to pass a test not how to drive a car

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Haha, I think that's pretty much how it is in QLD too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr Mynarocv8

A Hyundai exel can still do 140kph... Straight into a tree! It's not the car it's
the driver... Here in wa we are taught to pass a test not how to drive a car

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I agree it's the driver and the drivers responsibility and not the cars.
If this fark wit wants this why not ban cars all together:)
My wife's Mazda 2 will do 170+ no prob at all

My rules for my kids will be to learn to drive a car and handle it like me before they take the keys of the VY or VE:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sjhugh

We as a community are gradually being legislated to the point where eventually we’ll lose the ability to be able to make decisions for ourselves. You only need to look at the social problems that Governments of late have been trying to correct by making laws that affect everyone to save the few. Alcohol and drug abuse, gambling addiction, violence and rage and traffic safety to name a few and yet no amount of Government intervention makes the problems go away.

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Agree 100%.

I was thinking the same thing when I was listening to the news yesterday re Wilkie pulling his support from Gillard over the gambling "reforms".
ABCNEWS24 kept playing the tear-jerking story of a woman who was speaking about her husband having committed suicide over gambling and Gillard kept talking about gamblers being "unable to drive by a club without getting on the pokies" etc as if it was the government and the rest of the community's duty to protect everyone from themselves. For crying out loud, this is what a free society is about! FREEDOM. A sad by-product of that is that people will sometimes engage in extreme and self-destructive behaviour - but that is their choice! The woman's husband didn't need to gamble his life away but chose that path. Government, stay out of our lives! Having long run out of genuinely sensible reforms and sensible legislation, governments and interest groups, bureaucrats and the media seem to be looking for ever more creative ways of limiting our freedoms. Obesity kills and maims many, many more people than gambling. Maybe there should be legislation that makes it illegal to buy more than a certain amount of calories if you are overweight?! I mean, where does it all end? In totalitarian state control is where people.

If it can be shown that limiting vehicle choice by power-weight ratios will be a clear benefit for road safety of the young driver, then perhaps that is reasonable but these sorts of things always need to be balanced with the priority tilted in favour of individual choice unless there is a very good reason not to allow that.

It is impossible to make laws against stupidity!!!

Since I was 16 I have owned cars that were considered "high powered" and would be off limits to p-platers today but I never had a close call or a serious accident.

Few of my mates wrapped their cars round trees, poles and other cars and not one of them was in what I would call a "high powered" car.
Usually a v6 commo sedan or a Hyundai Excel.

Driver education and bus passes are what is needed here.

the shit thing is the people doing right thing are being penalised because of a minor amount of farkwits. maybe they should give real penalties to kids being dick heads on the roads. these days have the dick heads see getting their cars impounded for month or so as a medal of honor. maybe take it and their licence for a whole year on the spot and then send them to do comunity service at a tac rehab centre along with a big fark off fine

And make sure before they get there license back they have completed aAn advanced driver training course

Although I think it should be compulsory for the course to be completed

GEEZ, UNBELIEVABLE......that we all agree?......No,.....but it is bloody unbelievable that here we are, a group of ordinary people,...we've ALL got good solutions, we can ALL see the problems that exist.......WHY CAN'T THE POLIES & THE POLICE? I mean do they REALLY think that banning V8s will make any meaningful difference.....gimme a break....surely they can't be that stupid?.....or are they simply "Headline Hunters"?
Cheers, Pickles.

I agree with the majority here. Most small cars available today even with their 2.0l 4cyl N/A motors are more than quick enough to cause a fatal accident.

The licensing system here is an absolute joke. Someone could pass and still barely know how to even drive a car. I remember on my test the instructor got me to do the "forgot something at home" routine where he makes a not of a house and then tells you to go back to it a little bit later. He marked me down because I didn't go far enough into the driveway, not that I was hanging out on the road or anything just simply should have driven closer to the house. Now what sort of ****ed up logic says that doing that "test" has anything to do with my ability to drive a car...

Defensive/Advanced driver training days are what is needed. It should be mandatory to do them before even being allowed to get a license. I did an advanced driver training day a few years ago. Those few hours taught me more about car control in emergency situations etc than any other driving lessons, tests etc I had done up to that point.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pickles

GEEZ, UNBELIEVABLE......that we all agree?......No,.....but it is bloody unbelievable that here we are, a group of ordinary people,...we've ALL got good solutions, we can ALL see the problems that exist.......WHY CAN'T THE POLIES & THE POLICE? I mean do they REALLY think that banning V8s will make any meaningful difference.....gimme a break....surely they can't be that stupid?.....or are they simply "Headline Hunters"?
Cheers, Pickles.

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Its easy for them to single out V8s because the media etc has portrayed them as all being a menace on the roads. Nothing seems to have any thought behind it. They just want to make themselves look like they are being proactive. The only problem is, their laws and campaigns make no difference so they just spin up some new bullshit and pass a new law. I can drive my ute around without doing anything stupid but because it is loud, im a younger driver and its a black holden ute people look at me like I am a hoon automatically. Yet when I drive my mums accord euro around, I can do whatever I want and no one looks twice. The perception is V8 = bad.

Defensive/Advanced driver training days should be mandatory for every driver/ motorcycle rider on our roads. although they can work in a negative way with these dick heads that think they are invincible by giving them more confidence to be cocky farkers

so holdens new 1.4lt turbo cruze is a high performance car now?



ha ha ha ha ha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pickles

GEEZ, UNBELIEVABLE......that we all agree?......No,.....but it is bloody unbelievable that here we are, a group of ordinary people,...we've ALL got good solutions, we can ALL see the problems that exist.......WHY CAN'T THE POLIES & THE POLICE? I mean do they REALLY think that banning V8s will make any meaningful difference.....gimme a break....surely they can't be that stupid?.....or are they simply "Headline Hunters"?
Cheers, Pickles.

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The number one priority of a political party in opposition is to win the next election , I don't think good policy/law is always (if ever) the winner in that situation.

Limit everyone to an engine size under 2.0 litres (normally aspirated), then make them pass the world's toughest licencing system and advanced driver course. If you can't pass it you fail. If you have an attitude problem, you fail. If you get busted for doing skidz or doing more than 20km/h over the limit you start all over again.
Easy.
The biggest "problem" though is that all the idiotic drivers over 18 have the ability to vote, and all politicians love people to vote for them. That is the main reason "the system" isn't easily fixed.

The system won't be fixed when it means having to spend money - the money making scheme (ie, tighten laws and fine people) will win out.

[QUOTE=planetdavo;1990989]Limit everyone to an engine size under 2.0 litres (normally aspirated), then make them pass the world's toughest licencing system and advanced driver course. If you can't pass it you fail. If you have an attitude problem, you fail. If you get busted for doing skidz or doing more than 20km/h over the limit you start all over again.
Easy.

Restricting engine size to under 2.0 litres (normally aspirated) is just farkin stupid davo. Not every p plater has a job sitting behind a parts bench all day long. A large % of p plater males are tradesman who have work gear to lug around. i would love to see how my apprentice will lug his work bench around in a 2ltr honda civic. some of your stupid opinions are more flawed than what you think the power to weight system is

The roads are the safest they have been in decades.. it is merely a vote grabber for people who swallow the media hype.

I assume people do realise that a hyundai excel goes fast enough to kill you?

This perceived threat pales in comparison to other addictions... like smoking, being fat, drinking etc etc

Try banning Mickey D's and see how far that gets you. Its an easy thing for politicians to try and implement so they appear to be doing something other than ****ing up.

Slightly off topic but aren't most of the chauffeur driven polititions vehicles v8s, does that mean Julia gillard is a hoon

yes advanced driving course should be part of getting a license.

Any car can go too fast some just take longer to get their...you can kill yourself on a pushbike if your stupid enough.

should ban booze until 21 as well. too many crazy drunk teens these days

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sjhugh

Its education we need, not laws.

It has been well known for decades that no amount of Government legislation will cure human failings or fix society’s ills. Not everyone lives to an old age, laws won’t change that.
Cars regardless of power can kill if the driver is silly enough to take them beyond their own driving ability and/or the vehicle’s limit. If Governments were serious, they would introduce expensive and mandatory education programmes for new drivers that teach road courtesy, basic and advanced vehicle control and so on as a part of introducing new laws. Laws on their own only target the law abiding, the others do whatever they wish.

.

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Hear Hear!!:bravo:

Driver Education - Something the government should look into but won't... EVER... because it costs too much money and time to implement something properly.

HOWEVER, taking the easy way out by proposing useless legislation that is drafted on carefully selected statistic in order to tap into the "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!" bandwagon mentality of the people gets more votes and therefore, is considered the logical option!

Everyone always goes on about "if I was in their shoes", but if you don't have the general public on your side, you don't have a job.

People just need a attitude adjustment, saying education will fix it and telling people to do advanced drivers courses will just give the young pricks the idea that they are advanced drivers and can speed and do fully sik skidz cause they have been taught how to control their cars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

Limit everyone to an engine size under 2.0 litres (normally aspirated), then make them pass the world's toughest licencing system and advanced driver course. If you can't pass it you fail. If you have an attitude problem, you fail. If you get busted for doing skidz or doing more than 20km/h over the limit you start all over again.
Easy.
The biggest "problem" though is that all the idiotic drivers over 18 have the ability to vote, and all politicians love people to vote for them. That is the main reason "the system" isn't easily fixed.

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Not much point limiting displacement to 2L as you can get Autech S15 200SX/Silvia or Honda S2000 which is alot quicker than alot of bigger engine cars.
I think if the government can't afford driver education then make it mandatory for anyone who is caught driving wrecklessly to attend and pay for the course.