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Ditiching the xforce, keeping my hi flow cats and pacemaker extractors.
After a bit of a search for Drone Free, EPA approved alternatives, I found this
http://www.chevsperformance.com.au/ve-hm-exhaust Tunehouse here in sydney supply them also.
Walkinshaw also said to be drone free?
Discovered my Xforce 2.5 also has baffles removed, adding to the audio assault... sounds grat in full song, but not great for an every day commuter, and illegal.
Get in touch with Luis at APS. Their HM stuff is even complied.
iPhone 4
Hi,Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco
I have a HM catback 2.5inch, hsv headers and cats. Drone free? almost, still some slight drone but very bearable. I also find that it can be a little hollow in sounds done low, not as angry as other exhausts, maybe has something to do with their rear muffler set up.
Walkinshaw use the exact same exhaust, I believe they us HM but just rebadged and more expensive. HM's is legal, sounds pretty good, I wouldn't say its the best but if you use your car like me which is every single day for work and personal use its does the job.
Like with many exhausts it can tend to vary from car to car and also depends on the user's definition of drone. I have seen many on here complain about sometimes quite bad drone on HM/Walky VE exhaust systems, but that was a while ago now so hopefully they've improved since then.
Cheers guys, I think Tunehouse use a different muffler, but not sure
hm do make walkinshaw;s exhausts, BUT it is a little different to the "HM" badged stuff, i went thru there factory earlier this yr and they showed me a couple of the differences, slightly different mufllers and so on.
I have a HM bimodal system i puchased off APS and i absalutely love it. it has no drone what so ever, except a very quick "boom" for a spit second while the valve opens. when the valve is shut you wouldnt even know it has had the exhaust change and when open it is a nice deep note
Well, I "almost" have a HM Headers 2.5" Cat Back system... HM125WU to be exact... A 2.5" painted stainless sytem...
Almost being that they "apparently" haven't supplied any for Series II utes yet (Go figure)... So when the system rocked up the mid section bolted up beautifully, but the rear muffler mounts are different! That's just my luck! So the system has the HM headers mid, and stock rears, for now!
They've got a set ready to jig, so hopefully they'll send them this week...
So far, just the mid section has opened the note up a little bit, and without any drone!! Being an AFM auto, I was so hesitant about any system, but did the research and spoke to "Walkinshaw", and then HM to clarify what was what, and what the end result would be like! Personally, when I described my "ideal" note, it was "AMG C63 loaded up!"... Nice a quite, but turned heads to hear that sophisticated sound when pulling away... So far, with the mid section I reckon I won't be too far off that when the rears arrive... The system is a direct bolt-up, so at least I can play around with the HM and Stock rear/mids to achive the note (and no drone) that I want...
Cool, Tunehouse are fitting it on Saturday, also to a series II so I guess they have their own modified version.
They describe the sound as "drone free" and "crisp euro" so will wait and see.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huthy77
Cheers Wonky.
I'm guessing sedans and utes have different drone tolerances also?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonky
My VE manual ute has pacies ballistic cats and the HM 2.5 catback
It has no drone all the noise comes out the tailpipes
I have been complimented on the sound
It took 3 hours to get the catback to fit the headers though.
I did a lot of research before I did this exhaust
I also have a DUS OTR and make 280rwkw on petrol 290 on LPG
Stu
A Walkinshaw Catback on my E1 with stock headers and cats.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/n...VEClubbyR8.jpg
What drone?
Personally I think it’s too quiet and wouldn’t have another.
.
Hey there i think if u after the exhaust sounding most similar to the c63 amg i reckon the walkinshaw is the closest sounding system out there. I have linked two vids for comparison, i think the walkinshaw has a similar bark/crack noise as the stock c63 when reving, unique sound.
c63 (fast foward 2.23)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85GM3q3Xlkk
walkinshaw (fast forward to 0.27 sec)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnw4nXmlnmU
I think your delusional if you think you can make it sound like the 6.2 Merc.
iPhone 4
I have a HM 2.5 up to HSV Headers and cats on my SSV manual sedan. There is no drone at all. As others have said, it is a little quiet especially at idle but opens up when the throttle gets mashed. Great crackle on over run too. Made good power with the tune too. I would reccommend for sure.
If you want it to soumd like the merc keep your standard quiet system get a PA system and play the soundtrack.
Stu
Quote:
Originally Posted by macca_779
Agreed.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huthy77
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaron1828
I think you’ll be pushing sh#t up hill.
The 63 has a distinctive mechanical sound that forms part of the exhaust noise.
The 6.2 AMG internals are so far removed from that of a GM engine, the sound won’t ever be replicated by playing around with a mix and match HM exhaust system.
.
This thread has deviated somewhat, I never said I wanted it to sound like a C63, just louder than stock, no drone and legal.
Do they offer you a guarantee that the noise level and emissions are legal?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco
Of cause not, you’re keeping your hi flow cats and pacemaker extractors, you’re illegal before you start.
.
Louder than stock and legal aint gonna happen! They only just scrape under the 90dB from factory
This from the Pacemaker website
7) Will headers make my car louder?
The simple answer to this is 'no'. Headers by nature do not increase the Db range by themselves. The main reason for any exhaust system to increase the sound level is found in the choice of mufflers. Car manufacturers choose to use very restrictive but sound efficient reverse flow mufflers. These mufflers are very effective in reducing noise levels but also are very restrictive in flow. Some after market mufflers are very good in producing a high flow rate while still remaining within the law. Other mufflers are just too small in shape or too big in pipe diameter to do the job of effectively quieting the vehicles emissions. All customers wishing to alter their vehicles exhaust system should check with their states regulatory authority and work with reputable exhaust shops. Headers however do deepen the sound of the note of the exhaust. Much like a flute, if the pulse travelling down the barrel is allowed to escape through the first hole a high pitch is audible, however if the same pulse is allowed to complete the journey to the end, a much deeper note is heard. Headers by their design will have longer tubes than a standard manifold, creating a deeper note.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattnsw
There was this one time...at band camp....Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco
Haha... a little long winded?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkgmh
No the post was good, just couldn't resist the flute implication :lmao:Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco
I didnt actually read the whole thing... answered my question in the first sentence.
I've just got off the phone to an RTA approved engineer, and basically, unless your entire system is ADR approved (which it wont be unless stock) then you're a chance of being done.
He said on late model cars, the emmisions are so tight, even an airbox will breach the EPA guidlines as it alters emissions.
The rules and governing bodies here are a mess, I'm more confused now than I was before. Might just throw the stock airbox back on and pull the pacemakers off while I'm at it... anyone want to swap pacies for stockies?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkgmh
Is that your guarantee there won’t be an increase in sound from the Pacemakers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco
Where the guarantee on emissions?
Now team the pacemakers with the high flow cats.
Like most of us, your exhaust is illegal.
You’re obviously concerned about a whole range of implications in regard to aftermarket modifications.
You’re got a number of threads running at the moment asking questions in regard to legal and illegal mods. This one is just an extension of your mechanic/insurance one.
You’re not telling the forum members anything new and as you’ve been a member since Jan 2005, I would have thought you’d have picked up on the legalities of some aftermarket equipment long before now.
Police and the EPA can get you anytime they wish. The insurance company when you make a claim.
It’s all a risk and a part of modding your car is accepting the cost if caught.
Or don’t do it at all.
Dam it, lets just all purchase a Prius and get from "A" to "B" like every other tool on the road. Is it possible to have any fun any more??? What is it we can do then??? I can go to a legal business and purchase all the go fast goodies I want but once they are on a car you cannot actually drive it..........
Mate, I'm just asking questions to find out where I stand, and those questions apply to everyone on here. Yes, I joined in 2005, but I've only just recently been active because I only recent;ly bought another Holden.
Apologies if you're finding my posts annoying, but this stuff isn't obvious, you can easily be driving around in an illegal vehicle and be none the wiser.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattnsw
Yeah, I know I'll never replicate the AMG, but when you walk into an exhaust/tune shop, and like any good one should, they try and get an understanding of what you are looking for, and what you'll be happy with! Power vs Sound or Both? Mild, or Wild? Towncar or Racecar? Well, I was just upfront, and said "I'd love hear the AMG"... Quite on idle/cruise, noise out the back of the car, and not through it! I'm realistic, but it seems to be a common "language" and sound that everyone knows!Quote:
Originally Posted by sjhugh
I'd never say I want the "Snappy/Barky" Xforce, or tell them I want a Hyundai Excel with 4" Hotdogs lighting up the tyres at the lights after the first rain shower!
So the AMG dream it is....
Re. not being able to pass emissions etc with exhaust -
Rubbish , it can be done . We've done it using a HM system.
http://www.ls1.com.au/forum/showthre...amp-the-future
Hi Luis,
I read your thread, great to see. I would have contacted you guys if you were in Syd,
I'm taking my ute in tomorrow, removing the pacemakers, removing the cai, removing the outlaw cats and xforce catback. Replacing with current model HSV extractors, euro 4 cats, and HM headers catback, also putting back the stock airbox. I'm hoping, this combination will bring emissions in check and also db levels.
People on here have said, a stock SS or right on the db allowance, which can't be true, as HSV also hae to abide by the same restrictions, and they sound better than a standard SS.
Quote:
Originally Posted by APS Luis
i am not sure why everyone is saying extractors and high flow cats are illegal, i was inspected after getting defected and passed no worries with extractors and high flow cats on the car here in s.a, as long as the cats are there and it passes DB reading they were fine with it. in saying that i didn't have an emissions test done.
You answered your own question.Quote:
Originally Posted by MANARO
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roonstain
NOT TRUE, bimodal my friend, aps have done it
I think I read that APS did it with Bimodal fully open.
Aftermarket Bimodals like varex are outlawed also.
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/no...hiclenoise.htm
The Regulation also makes it an offence to use temporary noise reduction devices or packing in vehicle exhausts. This includes items such as baffles in the exhaust system that have not been welded/riveted in place, or items that are adjustable such as valves, or materials introduced into the exhaust system, such as steel wool. These items must not be used to defeat a noise test.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AMADR8
mate there are ways around all that for it to be legal, doesnt matter if aps had it open or closed, at the end of the day it passed WITH THE VALVES ON, my car came from factory with bimodal so it is legal to have them there, just not legal to be able to adjust it to open when ever u want. i think you will find aps used the control module pre set to open and close at a certain rpm so that the valves were shut at the testing level, this means that they cant be opened by the driver when ever they want, just like the hsv versionQuote:
Originally Posted by Doco
Fair enough and I’m definitely not annoyed, it’s not that important to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Doco
As this is a performance orientated enthusiast forum where modifications are the primary topic, I was curious why a member would buy a modified car and without giving a thought to its mods before buying it.
And why after being a member for so long you hadn’t picked up the faintest hint of the pros and cons of the basic exhaust, cold air, suspension & tune mods. The forum is saturated with them and their legalities.
It was reasonable to wonder why.
Anyway all’s good, enjoy the car, I would have kept it the way it is. It would be much more fun.
I wonder what the legalities are re putting an aftermarket bimodal system like HM's on a HSV E2 or E3 which was available from the factory with the bimodal? I suspect that to the letter of the law if it didn't come from the factory with the bimodal it would be illegal to add one, but what about if it came from the factory with HSV's bimodal and you then updated to HM's? If it passed noise testing I suspect it would be OK? :confused:
Hey Wonky,
Basically, from what I've read / been told by two engineers, and also a tuning house in the last two days, is that any new vehicle (mine being 2010 for example) has very tight emission and noise control, any change to the exhaust system, other than what was designed to be on the car from factory, is considered tampering, and possibly altering the noise and emission output. Even if you replace the exhaust with an aftermarket item that is able to pass an ADR / EPA gauntlet, you still have to have an engineers certificate to prove it, and the police, can fine you in the meantime for not having it engineered.
Many people on here are fine with that, but who wants the headache, and who has the time to be dicking around jumping through hoops to pass some emissions test? Once you pass that test, it is still not a certificate, and can happen again. One engineer I spoke to said he'd inspect the car, and if it passed all tests, he'd write up a certificate. I asked for a ballpark estimate, and he said between $1,000 and $1,500. This is probably a wise option for some, but anything with an OTR a Mafless tune, non euro 4 emission regulated cats, will not be passed. (this applies to late model cars)
Now, if the law deems non standard, non engineered exhausts as unroadworthy, that is in direct breach of policy with an insurer such as NRMA who say, you can have any mod you want, as long as it's legal
So, to answer your question, no, if it's not from factory, you still need it engineered.
Is this being enforced? May not be common, but Ive found several cases in the past few days, mostly hotted up turbos etc, but that's not to say it can't happen to anyone.
I care more about this than most because I've had insurance cancelled in the past for non disclosure of something I didn't even consider to be an issue, fortunately the car wasn't worth much.
If anyone is interested, this is the engineer I spoke to, he takes bookings and was pretty helpful on the phone, straight up older, no bullshit kind of bloke http://www.terrytoomey.com.au/
I suspect the industry will be forced to change very soon, workshops will be required to meet ADR standards, one subsection of the guideline I read said it's an offense to sell a vehicle with non compliant exhausts, here's the link
http://www.environment.nsw.gov.au/no...hiclenoise.htm
I don't like this anymore than the next guy, I love my ute, love V8s, and cars in general, but I don't need the headache that goes along with knowing I may be uninsured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wonky
I just cut-paste as I CBF doing links etc..but here is the email header ;)
Hello Luis,
Undertook the noise test earlier this arvo and all seems well to me.
I forgot the instruction on how to close the butterfly valves to test on the single outlet however with the duel outlets open the vehicle comfortably complies with respect to stationary noise of a modified vehicle as far as EPA Victoria would be concerned.
EPA Victoria Quote 90dB(A) maximum
The National code of practice for light vehicle conbstruction & modification document attached is also rather vague with respcet to stating a maximum figure for stationary noise, however the Australian Vehicle Standards (1999) also states a limit of 90dB(A)
We are measuring with all outlets open a maximum figure of 85dB(A)
All seems good to me.
Vehicle shall be ready for pick up anytime tomorrow - I shall not be in but get the tow truck drive to ask for Gavin Mabbutt and he shall assist.
Thanks again
Rob Davies
Project Engineer - Automotive
Vipac Engineers & Scientists
279 Normanby Road Port Melbourne VIC 3207 Australia
t. +61 3 9647 9764 | f. +61 3 9646 4370 | m. +61 (0)403 989 567
www.vipac.com.au
I guess the point is that if you fit an approved, legal & ADR'd system to your car your insurance company has no argument.
thanks luis, exactly my point