Manual V8 sedans are becoming rare.

Something I realised today, the only V8 manual (normal manual, not DSG manual) sedans you can buy in the world today are the Holden/HSV and FPV. That's it. No one else does manual V8 sedans. Jaguar, Lexus, M-B, Bentley, RR and Chrysler only do Autos, whilst BMW and Audi do offer DSG/Robo Manuals.

Jaguar have got rid of the atmo 5.0L V8 in the XF which used to sell for $125K and replaced it with a supercharged 3.0L V6. Now you have to pay $210K for the XFR if you want a V8. If the Commodore and Falcon go, your choices for V8 sedans will be the Chrysler 300 at $45K, Lexus IS-F at $125K and the M-B C63 at $150K and then into the stratosphere for BMW 550, M-B E500, Jag XFR etc. It's noticable that even the luxury brands are moving from V8's to turbo/super charged 6's and from 6's to turbo/supercharged 4's.

Cheers, Matthew

Manuals in general are slowly becoming rare, as they are no longer kings in terms of performance or economy.

Cadillac's CTS-V is worth adding to your list, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_CTS-V

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Originally Posted by Troutman

Manuals in general are slowly becoming rare, as they are no longer kings in terms of performance or economy.

Cadillac's CTS-V is worth adding to your list, though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadillac_CTS-V

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Silly me, you're right. Can't think of any others.

Cheers, Matthew

also good luck with getting a new 300c V8 for $45K more like $75K

I have a 100 series GXL, petrol, 4.7ltr V8 Manual 5spd that im selling,

I cant even find 1 other cruiser the same as mine with a 5 speed manual to help judge a price.

turns out there pretty rare and if ppl have them they are'nt selling them.

A number of those vehicles appear to be auto or DSG only, at least according to Wikipedia (therefore has to be correct, hehe ;) ).

300C = 5 or 8 speed auto only
C63 = 7 speed DSG
Lexus IS-F = 8 speed sequential auto
etc...

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Originally Posted by Jonesy40

also good luck with getting a new 300c V8 for $45K more like $75K

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I just had a look in Wheels and you're right the only V8 300 is the SRT, they don't have just a normal V8, wonder if that will be introduced? The previous 300C you could get a base V8 for $45K.

Cheers, Matthew

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Originally Posted by Troutman

A number of those vehicles appear to be auto or DSG only, at least according to Wikipedia (therefore has to be correct, hehe ;) ).

300C = 5 or 8 speed auto only
C63 = 7 speed DSG
Lexus IS-F = 8 speed sequential auto
etc...

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The C63 is a normal 7 speed auto as per other M-Bs. Audi A8, Maserati, BMW, Bentley, RR and Jag use ZF 6/8 speed autos. Porsche and BMW M5 use 7 speed Robo-manuals/DSGs.

Cheers, Matthew

Most models weren't offered in Oz as manuals, go back a few years and you could still buy manual 7 series BMWs in Europe.

Delete....

Already mentioned.

im never selling my manual ls2 clubbie.. im going to be buried in it.

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Originally Posted by Jag530G

Something I realised today, the only V8 manual (normal manual, not DSG manual) sedans you can buy in the world today are the Holden/HSV and FPV. That's it. No one else does manual V8 sedans. Jaguar, Lexus, M-B, Bentley, RR and Chrysler only do Autos, whilst BMW and Audi do offer DSG/Robo Manuals................

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thats seriously wacked...as the ONLY thing I have driven since I first got my hands on a LX SLR5000 (when at GMH)
has been V8 manuals..Commodore SL/Es, Grp As, SSs, Berlinas (as in a VK 5.0 M21 4 speed Berlina) Commodore wagons
(from a VH Vacationer to the SSv Sportwagon I have now) to the last of the Holden range in a HZ GTS

I was looking at a new car the other day and I really hate that DSG etc are listed as 'manual' transmissions. I guess they're not really automatics either but I consider them more auto than manual for driver involvement

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Originally Posted by Jag530G

I just had a look in Wheels and you're right the only V8 300 is the SRT, they don't have just a normal V8, wonder if that will be introduced? The previous 300C you could get a base V8 for $45K.

Cheers, Matthew

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would be nice if there was still a V8 option with out getting the SRT. keep thinking about what im going to buy next but looks like it will be another commodore where else can you get a V8 for under 50K. wish there were more choices in this bracket but i suppose there isn't enough sales to make it worth while for anyone else to offer something

Various reasons for their rarity, but the main reason is simple...pure and simple laziness.
Most people just find it too taxing on their brains to press a clutch and move a gear lever anymore.

As above.

Plus, with automatic trans becoming so good, why bother with a manual?

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Originally Posted by aratic

As above.

Plus, with automatic trans becoming so good, why bother with a manual?

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Someone drive an auto.. You just don't get it do you.

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Originally Posted by aratic

As above.

Plus, with automatic trans becoming so good, why bother with a manual?

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Guess it depends on whether you enjoy "old school" levels of driver involvement, or playstation levels of tap and go driver involvement. There's not really any skill involved in tapping a paddle or a shifter, with your left foot hard up against the footrest...
I do appreciate the auto work jobbie in the daily peak hour traffic grind though. To me, that is their main benefit. I do enjoy far more taking the manual weekender for a run though.

My Commodore is the first auto I've owned. 9/10 times I would buy a manual, but if I had to chose any of the cars above, I'd pick the auto every time. Except with maybe the Commodore, because the auto is not as good as the other marques.

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

Guess it depends on whether you enjoy "old school" levels of driver involvement, or playstation levels of tap and go driver involvement. There's not really any skill involved in tapping a paddle or a shifter, with your left foot hard up against the footrest...
I do appreciate the auto work jobbie in the daily peak hour traffic grind though. To me, that is their main benefit. I do enjoy far more taking the manual weekender for a run though.

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Yeah, I agree David, an auto is more practical around the city driving but a quick manual is great fun to drive on occasion.

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Originally Posted by aratic

My Commodore is the first auto I've owned. 9/10 times I would buy a manual, but if I had to chose any of the cars above, I'd pick the auto every time. Except with maybe the Commodore, because the auto is not as good as the other marques.

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I reckon the older 4 speed auto Commodore transmission felt better than the newer 6 speed auto.

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

Various reasons for their rarity, but the main reason is simple...pure and simple laziness.
Most people just find it too taxing on their brains to press a clutch and move a gear lever anymore.

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...or be in control of 2tonne of metal ;)

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Originally Posted by Smitty

...or be in control of 2tonne of metal ;)

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True.
How can most people possibly be expected to co-ordinate the clutch and gearshift, when it's too hard to even use an indicator stalk most of the time...

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Originally Posted by aratic

As above.

Plus, with automatic trans becoming so good, why bother with a manual?

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plus , once you're on the open road , how many time do you change gear ??

Even in 4x4's auto are better at gear selection .

So unless you like the feel of a large knob in your hand ............

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

True.
How can most people possibly be expected to co-ordinate the clutch and gearshift, when it's too hard to even use an indicator stalk most of the time...

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or set cruise control ...... lol

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Originally Posted by XUV

or set cruise control ...... lol

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1st gear will only go to a moderate speed if you are too lazy to change gears...;)

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Originally Posted by XUV

plus , once you're on the open road , how many time do you change gear ??

Even in 4x4's auto are better at gear selection .

So unless you like the feel of a large knob in your hand ............

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Think you have missed the point of why many enthusiasts still love manuals XUV.
Take out that open road cruise, and swap it for a hilly, winding road. Then tell us which one is more enjoyable if you love to drive, rather than just reaching the destination...

Having just had 11 years with a auto and now a manual, I can tell you, I am certainly enjoying a manual.

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Originally Posted by XUV

plus , once you're on the open road , how many time do you change gear ??

Even in 4x4's auto are better at gear selection .

So unless you like the feel of a large knob in your hand ............

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I always wondered why the missus refuses to drive a auto, now I know why !!

your just nnot cutting it so she takes the car for a spin instead lol


all my cars are manual, accept the wifes, auto's for me are just boring, they even sound better IMO than an auto.

just sayin

I always had manuals and then when I moved to Melbourne driving the ute across town was just too much and lost the enjoyment. My company cars are autos, I have an sv6 atm and have tried a few times to drive it straight 'manual' mode but it just isn't right so it stays in D . It's pretty sad though I'm hanging out for my new car which is a manual tD Amarok 4x4 :D

I miss the 3rd pedal on weekends but don't seem to do much driving for fun these days :bawl:

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Originally Posted by zorro

I always had manuals and then when I moved to Melbourne driving the ute across town was just too much and lost the enjoyment. My company cars are autos, I have an sv6 atm and have tried a few times to drive it straight 'manual' mode but it just isn't right so it stays in D . It's pretty sad though I'm hanging out for my new car which is a manual tD Amarok 4x4 :D

I miss the 3rd pedal on weekends but don't seem to do much driving for fun these days :bawl:

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Definitely can be like that. Most people don't have the luxury of having two different cars, so compromise is required. If the compromise balance means an auto is the way to go- so be it.
An "enthusiast" outright dismissing a traditional manual though, no matter what the circumstances...they should be banned from the forum!

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Originally Posted by planetdavo

Think you have missed the point of why many enthusiasts still love manuals XUV.
Take out that open road cruise, and swap it for a hilly, winding road. Then tell us which one is more enjoyable if you love to drive, rather than just reaching the destination...

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Absolutely correct, can't beat the manual on hilly windy road. Anyone who argues this point should simply be shot.

hadn't really thought of that, or realised the fact..

and everyone is in luck, i'm currently trying to sell the rare V8 manual sedan in my driveway :) 2007 SSV

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Originally Posted by redvxr8clubby

Absolutely correct, can't beat the manual on hilly windy road. Anyone who argues this point should simply be shot.

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Yep take a powerful good handling car through for example the snowy mountains and enjoy a very satisfying fun drive. Do it with an auto.. Pfft you might as well have gone to Luna Park.

i once bought an auto 5oh VR SS...never again i said, totally ruins the car.

had manual ever since.

was funny when the A6 came out, as a lot of people were sayong how great they were.. now u just hear stories
of how the A6 just does'nt know what gear it wants to be in etc etc.

I had a someone with a g6e turbo with an auto trying to keep up with me through some twisties, by the time his
gearbox figured out what gear in wanted to be in, then kicked down, and the turbo spooled up, lol i was already
powering through the next corner in the right gear in the right rev range etc even though theirs was prolly quicker
'in a straight line' .

Not that I could afford it but if I could, I would really want a manual C63.

I know it was a crappy A4 but years ago I got a new VYII A4 for a change as I had always driven manuals; I traded it 6 months later for a manual VZ.

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Originally Posted by Angeldust

....

was funny when the A6 came out, as a lot of people were sayong how great they were.. now u just hear stories
of how the A6 just does'nt know what gear it wants to be in etc etc........... .

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ain't that the truth.

mate in the car club bought an A6 SSv sportwagon to tow his race car (to PI Winton etc) and on one of the runs down to PI for a track day
(sitting 100-105kmh) that A6 box must have done several thousand gearchanges..up and down up and down. We started counting
but after reaching 100 in a kilometre or 2, we gave up! He sold it and bought a manual SSv Redline Sportwagon.

Interestingly we also have a few GM Holden engineers in the car club (with weekend race cars they tow around). They use MANUAL SS/SSv Sportwagons...

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Originally Posted by Smitty

ain't that the truth.

mate in the car club bought an A6 SSv sportwagon to tow his race car (to PI Winton etc) and on one of the runs down to PI for a track day
(sitting 100-105kmh) that A6 box must have done several thousand gearchanges..up and down up and own. We started counting
but after reaching 100 in a kilometre or 2, we gave up! He sold it and bought a manual SSv Redline Sportwagon.

Interestingly we also have a few GM Holden engineers in the car club (with weekend race cars they tow around). They use MANUAL SS/SSv Sportwagons...

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Guess that just supports what many of us have been saying doesn't it.
Auto transmissions are, and forever will be, a compromise for enthusiasts. They are only as good as the hardware and software designed into them. They are mostly a REACTIVE device, doing something in response to something the driver has done. Some are better than others- many now downshift a gear when slowing down etc, but they are a remote device just doing a job really. Paddles and tipshifts ATTEMPT to make them interesting (how many people actually use them regularly?), but rarely do they end up being even close to the enjoyment a manual can give. They are designed to press the accelerator/brake and reach your destination with a minimum of fuss.
Whereas (acknowledging some are also better than others) manual gearbox and clutch cars are only as good as the mug operating that lever and pedal...:hide:

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Originally Posted by 1BEAST2NV

your just nnot cutting it so she takes the car for a spin instead lol


all my cars are manual, accept the wifes, auto's for me are just boring, they even sound better IMO than an auto.

just sayin

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The G8 wagon is hers, the Cross 8 is mine

To quote my wife when I drive the wagon " You drive like pussy, put the boot in "

PS - I still have all my points.